a new low at Mountaineer?

[Elliott Sidewater]

Last night's card, in clear weather and on a fast track had a total of 4 races with 3 or 4 horses. The other 5 races had 6 horses each. The attendance was listed at 925, I'm guessing that probably includes people in the casino, and collectively they bet the princely sum of $5,022 on track. That's less than $6 per, folks! And somehow they managed to generate $832,000 in total handle, but that includes about $200,000 from a bridge jumper show bet in the first race (it won). So that cost the track money because of the minimum $2.20 payoff mandate in WV.

Other than perhaps to provide jobs, why is this track still operating?

[thaskalos]

Last night's card, in clear weather and on a fast track had a total of 4 races with 3 or 4 horses. The other 5 races had 6 horses each. The attendance was listed at 925, I'm guessing that probably includes people in the casino, and collectively they bet the princely sum of $5,022 on track. That's less than $6 per, folks! And somehow they managed to generate $832,000 in total handle, but that includes about $200,000 from a bridge jumper show bet in the first race (it won). So that cost the track money because of the minimum $2.20 payoff mandate in WV.

Other than perhaps to provide jobs, why is this track still operating?

This track is still open so the casino could remain in action. Just as the cigar store of old was just a front for the illegal gambling parlor operating in the back room.

[PaceAdvantage]

And somehow they managed to generate $832,000 in total handle, but that includes about $200,000 from a bridge jumper show bet in the first race (it won). So that cost the track money because of the minimum $2.20 payoff mandate in WV.The bridge jump will only cost them money if the bet was placed at Mountaineer.

Fairly certain the establishment where the bet is placed is on the hook for the minus pool portion....that's why you see show betting cancelled for certain races off track when it is being accepted on track (at least I've seen this...Suffolk Downs simulcasting was notorious for not accepting show betting on certain races where it was being accepted on track for this very reason).

[MonmouthParkJoe]

The bridge jump will only cost them money if the bet was placed at Mountaineer.

Fairly certain the establishment where the bet is placed is on the hook for the minus pool portion....that's why you see show betting cancelled for certain races off track when it is being accepted on track (at least I've seen this...Suffolk Downs simulcasting was notorious for not accepting show betting on certain races where it was being accepted on track for this very reason).


Spot on. Most simo contracts have clauses that hold the guest responsible for minus pools.

[Peter Berry]

Last night's card, in clear weather and on a fast track had a total of 4 races with 3 or 4 horses. The other 5 races had 6 horses each. The attendance was listed at 925, I'm guessing that probably includes people in the casino, and collectively they bet the princely sum of $5,022 on track. That's less than $6 per, folks! And somehow they managed to generate $832,000 in total handle, but that includes about $200,000 from a bridge jumper show bet in the first race (it won). So that cost the track money because of the minimum $2.20 payoff mandate in WV.

Other than perhaps to provide jobs, why is this track still operating?
Our field sizes will pick up now that our Ohio neighbor Mahoning Valley has closed and also the return of turf racing on May 1 should be a huge boost. That said, the small fields so far this meet have been disheartening and, yes, embarrassing. We are doing our best with the horse population available.

[mountainman]

Our field sizes will pick up now that our Ohio neighbor Mahoning Valley has closed and also the return of turf racing on May 1 should be a huge boost. That said, the small fields so far this meet have been disheartening and, yes, embarrassing. We are doing our best with the horse population available.

I could not have put this any better. What he said.

[arw629]

I had the all you can eat buffet featuring crab legs this past Friday night and it was excellent. It's every Friday night from 5-9

[Peter Berry]

I had the all you can eat buffet featuring crab legs this past Friday night and it was excellent. It's every Friday night from 5-9
The food - quality and selection - at Mountaineer casino is second to none.

[Inner Dirt]

I had the all you can eat buffet featuring crab legs this past Friday night and it was excellent. It's every Friday night from 5-9

With lemon and butter?

[Track Phantom]

Our field sizes will pick up now that our Ohio neighbor Mahoning Valley has closed and also the return of turf racing on May 1 should be a huge boost. That said, the small fields so far this meet have been disheartening and, yes, embarrassing. We are doing our best with the horse population available.
I know it's tough for everyone. Not just Mountaineer but everywhere except a few places.

[whodoyoulike]

... We are doing our best with the horse population available.

This is interesting.

How many horses are currently stabled there compared to historical numbers?

[HuggingTheRail]

This is interesting.

How many horses are currently stabled there compared to historical numbers?

Hope you don't mind if I piggyback on that question...


If Mahoning races ~ the same dates next year, Mnr will have the same challenge? What does Mnr think they need to do to not have the same thing happen next year?

[Peter Berry]

This is interesting.

How many horses are currently stabled there compared to historical numbers?
I heard someone last week say we had 400 empty stalls. Mountainman would have accurate, up-to-date numbers.

[AltonKelsey]

Pools look generous to the naked eye, but I have no idea what it cost to feed and vet those 5000 wonders.

The racing there is fun to watch, more than can be said for the product at much bigger tracks during long stretches.

[Inner Dirt]

Small fields never bothered me as I don't play exactas, trifectas, or supers. What I never liked about Mountaineer is the lack of rolling pick 3's. I wonder way they don't have them? That and it is a weird track for me, I can either do no right or do no wrong, never any middle ground. Some nights I could pick just one horse in each race and go 6 for 9, then go on an 0-18 streak, rinse, repeat. Oddly enough the type of races make no difference.

[arw629]

With lemon and butter?

Yes and I couldn't get the smell of crab and butter off my face for a few days ...the place was packed with people shoveling crab legs in their mouths...they also had prime rib, shrimp, and a handful of other options....the dessert options were excellent ...I had cheese cake and this oreo cookie cake that far exeded my expectations

[AltonKelsey]

You want a pick 3 with a $5000 at best pool? Really? I don't think so.

[Elliott Sidewater]

To Peter Berry and Mountainman - I really appreciate your candid replies, and wish you both a better ending to the 2017 meeting than the start. I've seen other tracks cancel whole cards due to lack of entries. It's to your credit that MNR did not do that. The show went on, but last night's card at MNR was kind of a shocker for me and my closest track is Parx, so the bar is not all that high.

[Marlin]

You want a pick 3 with a $5000 at best pool? Really? I don't think so.

Biggest misconception, big pools equal bigger payoffs. Totally untrue. Big pools equal fair payoffs. Small pools equal unfair payoffs. There is an advantage to be found.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

The competition in the mid-east is reminiscent of a time when there were enough patrons and horses to populate the tracks. You have tracks in NJ, PA, MD, OH, WV, DEL, and KY often running the same sort of horse in the same sort of race. It's pretty stiff competition, and there isn't the same number of potential runners available. I'm not sure how long the situation can sustain under current conditions.

[Inner Dirt]

You want a pick 3 with a $5000 at best pool? Really? I don't think so.


Biggest misconception, big pools equal bigger payoffs. Totally untrue. Big pools equal fair payoffs. Small pools equal unfair payoffs. There is an advantage to be found.

Exactly, with small pools quite often you can get some astoundingly high pay-offs considering the odds of the horses. I don't think I have ever seen a pick 3 or pick 4 pay a 2 out of 3 or a 3 out of 4 at a major track, yet it happens all the time at smaller venues. That is a benefit of the small pool and some of the prices on those tickets have been pretty good. It was many years ago but I picked up over $600 on a 3 of 4 at EMD if my memory serves me right a couple $15 horses and a $30 one caused that pay out.

[onefast99]

Yes and I couldn't get the smell of crab and butter off my face for a few days ...the place was packed with people shoveling crab legs in their mouths...they also had prime rib, shrimp, and a handful of other options....the dessert options were excellent ...I had cheese cake and this oreo cookie cake that far exeded my expectationscan they send some of that food to Monmouth? Or at least the recipes???

[whodoyoulike]

Biggest misconception, big pools equal bigger payoffs. Totally untrue. Big pools equal fair payoffs. Small pools equal unfair payoffs. There is an advantage to be found.

I've always felt bigger payoffs were related to horse field sizes e.g., in 10 horse fields the payouts are usually greater for WPS than 4 -5 horse fields. I would think it would carry over to the exotics and probably also result in larger pools.

[Tom]

Our field sizes will pick up now that our Ohio neighbor Mahoning Valley has closed and also the return of turf racing on May 1 should be a huge boost. That said, the small fields so far this meet have been disheartening and, yes, embarrassing. We are doing our best with the horse population available.

Try opening later next year?