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Clocker
04-10-2017, 03:14 PM
A doctor was dragged kicking and screaming from a United flight after being told that he was being bumped to make room for United employees who "needed" to be on the flight. Four passengers already on the plane were chosen at random to be bumped. Three left voluntarily, but the doctor refused to leave, saying that he needed to see patients in the morning.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-10/doctor-dragged-united-plane-after-computer-solves-overbooking-problem (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-10/doctor-dragged-united-plane-after-computer-solves-overbooking-problem)

johnhannibalsmith
04-10-2017, 03:27 PM
Reason #787 not to ever get near an airport much less on an airplane.

JustRalph
04-10-2017, 04:38 PM
The airline business is a shitty endeavor

chadk66
04-10-2017, 06:39 PM
This will probably get some congressional attention now. Why didn't they ask for another volunteer?

johnhannibalsmith
04-10-2017, 07:04 PM
Some forum crossover since I have an excuse to see if the tweet thing works for me:


https://twitter.com/raypaulick/status/851529982836867072

Clocker
04-10-2017, 07:22 PM
This will probably get some congressional attention now. Why didn't they ask for another volunteer?

They had already asked and got no volunteers. The article says United offered $400 and then $800, but I assume that meant that much in credit for travel, not in cash. Big deal. It's a crappy airline and they think offering more flights on United is an incentive?

I assume United was within their legal rights to put the guy off the plane, but they sure were stupid in how they handled it.

So what are the odds that the doctor is going to have some major injuries after he thinks it over? Not to mention PTSD. :D

thaskalos
04-10-2017, 07:36 PM
A DOCTOR, asked to surrender his seat to a "United employee"? To a CIA or an FBI employee, yes...but, COME ON. I thought "the customer is KING".

Clocker
04-10-2017, 07:45 PM
A DOCTOR, asked to surrender his seat to a "United employee"? To a CIA or an FBI employee, yes...but, COME ON. I thought "the customer is KING".

Apparently it was a United flight crew needed in Louisville for a flight the next day. But nobody at United figured that out until this plane was fully boarded and ready to go?

Classic BS quote from the United CEO: "I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers." Re-accommodate! :pound:

The security guard that dragged the guy off the plane has been thrown to the wolves. Oops, I mean put on leave pending investigation.

johnhannibalsmith
04-10-2017, 08:18 PM
Seems silly to give security a hard time. You call them for what? You've tried to talk people into leaving voluntarily and didn't get anywhere. So you go to the next step. Which is? Getting someone to force people off the plane. So the guy did the job that was expected of him, I assume? I didn't read that he was some kind of hostage negotiator. Somehow United will try to spin this into them quickly and confidently addressing the problem by shitcanning the employee that did what they expected him to do.

JustRalph
04-10-2017, 08:29 PM
It's Trump's fault

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/10/john-cho-blames-donald-trump-for-united-flight-341/

kingfin66
04-10-2017, 08:55 PM
It's Trump's fault

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/10/john-cho-blames-donald-trump-for-united-flight-341/

I am not even going to waste my time with that link. As much as I see many tenuous arguments about many things, there is no way I can image who it would be Trump's fault. I don't suppose that the person who was dragged off the flight was a Sikh or a Muslim, or a member of some other protected group?

Clocker
04-10-2017, 09:16 PM
I am not even going to waste my time with that link. As much as I see many tenuous arguments about many things, there is no way I can image who it would be Trump's fault. I don't suppose that the person who was dragged off the flight was a Sikh or a Muslim, or a member of some other protected group?


He was Chinese, the first victim of the Trump/Bannon trade wars. :p

JustRalph
04-11-2017, 12:03 AM
I am not even going to waste my time with that link. As much as I see many tenuous arguments about many things, there is no way I can image who it would be Trump's fault. I don't suppose that the person who was dragged off the flight was a Sikh or a Muslim, or a member of some other protected group?

Come on.......you gotta read it......it's an Actor

barahona44
04-11-2017, 12:11 AM
Come on.......you gotta read it......it's an ActorRonald Reagan?:D

kingfin66
04-11-2017, 01:06 AM
Come on.......you gotta read it......it's an Actor

OMG - 'Sulu' is blaming Trump for this. Madness.

johnhannibalsmith
04-11-2017, 01:18 AM
That's pretty funny... "...it's hard not to see..."

chadk66
04-11-2017, 08:01 AM
anybody from United or the airport involved in this should loose their jobs. like I said, congress will now be involved in this ordeal. where the hell is Obama and his red line when you need it

Fager Fan
04-11-2017, 08:02 AM
Why were they on the plane when they realized they had too few seats? It should've been handled prior to boarding.

Why didn't they up the offers until they found 4 volunteers? That's the only way it should be handled, as people who paid for a seat and did nothing wrong should not be forced to give up their seats. Buying a ticket is a contract, and the airlines should not be able to breach the contract.

Crew is allowed to ride in the jump seats. There should've been at least one jump seat free, so why not put the crew member there?

He'll, rent a car and driver to take the crew to Louisville. That would've been a lot cheaper than how much they're going to pay for this one.

I think the airport police could be charged with assault.

The pilot is responsible for all that happens on his plane so hope he suffers some repercussions too.

This never should've happened. Airlines run roughshod over their customers constantly.

boxcar
04-11-2017, 08:35 AM
Why were they on the plane when they realized they had too few seats? It should've been handled prior to boarding.

Why didn't they up the offers until they found 4 volunteers? That's the only way it should be handled, as people who paid for a seat and did nothing wrong should not be forced to give up their seats. Buying a ticket is a contract, and the airlines should not be able to breach the contract.

Crew is allowed to ride in the jump seats. There should've been at least one jump seat free, so why not put the crew member there?

He'll, rent a car and driver to take the crew to Louisville. That would've been a lot cheaper than how much they're going to pay for this one.

I think the airport police could be charged with assault.

The pilot is responsible for all that happens on his plane so hope he suffers some repercussions too.

This never should've happened. Airlines run roughshod over their customers constantly.

Since there were multiple crew members involved, why didn't they ride the super economy class by sticking them in the cargo hold? Problem solved.

I hope United gets sued big time!

Inner Dirt
04-11-2017, 09:04 AM
Why didn't they up the offers until they found 4 volunteers?

Exactly, everybody has their price, they only needed one more volunteer.

BaffertsWig
04-11-2017, 09:40 AM
people who paid for a seat and did nothing wrong should not be forced to give up their seats. Buying a ticket is a contract, and the airlines should not be able to breach the contract.


Have you ever read the fine print? It says a passenger can be removed from a flight by airline personnel for ANY reason. Not saying the way he was removed was appropriate at all, the airline definitely should have handled it differently. Next time you fly and this situation arises, just tell them you're a doctor with patients to see the next morning. They'll leave you alone and go on to the next person. :pound:

RunForTheRoses
04-11-2017, 09:43 AM
Reason #787 not to ever get near an airport much less on an airplane.



Yeah I hate to fly, this was especially absurd as the passengers were being bumped for United employees.

BaffertsWig
04-11-2017, 09:43 AM
Exactly, everybody has their price, they only needed one more volunteer.

I find it crazy that no one jumped at the $800+hotel offer. I've been on flights where they were looking for volunteers to give up their seat and I've never seen it get above $300 before people are practically jumping over others to get that money.

And another thing that's good to know if you should ever find yourself in this situation: you don't have to take the compensation in airline vouchers. You CAN request a check.

BaffertsWig
04-11-2017, 09:45 AM
Yeah I hate to fly, this was especially absurd as the passengers were being bumped for United employees.

It's not as if the employees were flying standby for vacation or anything, they had to be on the flight to work a flight the next morning. Without a flight crew to man that flight the next morning, it would have been delayed or even cancelled, thus creating a ripple effect down the line.

Robert Fischer
04-11-2017, 09:50 AM
How about the doctor acting like gentleman, and walking off the plane, when asked?

RunForTheRoses
04-11-2017, 09:53 AM
It's not as if the employees were flying standby for vacation or anything, they had to be on the flight to work a flight the next morning. Without a flight crew to man that flight the next morning, it would have been delayed or even cancelled, thus creating a ripple effect down the line.



So whose fault is that? Couldn't they have driven them or gotten them there via another airline? Or used some sort of staff in Louisville to do the work needed? Very poor customer service.
I have seen volunteers to be bumped in Las Vegas but in general I may have to be at work, etc the next day and cannot consider (almost) any offer.

RunForTheRoses
04-11-2017, 09:54 AM
How about the doctor acting like gentleman, and walking off the plane, when asked?


I do agree at some point he should have given up the fight but still doesn't make United right.

tucker6
04-11-2017, 10:12 AM
It's not as if the employees were flying standby for vacation or anything, they had to be on the flight to work a flight the next morning. Without a flight crew to man that flight the next morning, it would have been delayed or even cancelled, thus creating a ripple effect down the line.

not the passengers problem.

JustRalph
04-11-2017, 10:54 AM
Couldn't use a rental car etc because the flight crew has to have guaranteed hours off between flights etc. I heard on radio that this was the last flight that would have allowed them to fly the next morning

Poor planning all around. I'm still shocked nobody took the offer though......

iwearpurple
04-11-2017, 11:14 AM
Have you ever read the fine print? It says a passenger can be removed from a flight by airline personnel for ANY reason. Not saying the way he was removed was appropriate at all, the airline definitely should have handled it differently. Next time you fly and this situation arises, just tell them you're a doctor with patients to see the next morning. They'll leave you alone and go on to the next person. :pound:

Uh huh. If they removed an individual because they were Muslim, every liberal in this country would be screaming their lungs out.

The proper way this should have been done is the way it is handled every day. The airline keeps bumping the offer up until someone accepts it. Almost EVERYONE at some point will accept some offer. But no, United decided they weren't going to offer more than $800.00. So now, this will cost them millions in lost revenue and it should. Secondly, it absolutely should have been done before everyone is on the plane. Once, I'm on the plane, no way am I volunteering to leave.

BaffertsWig
04-11-2017, 11:26 AM
Uh huh. If they removed an individual because they were Muslim, every liberal in this country would be screaming their lungs out.


Sure, and they why wouldn't they? If the flight wasn't full and they removed a person because he/she was a Muslim that is obviously textbook profiling. That has nothing to do with this situation. The person was removed from this flight because his seat number was randomly selected by a computer on a full flight (where they needed their employees to board) and he didn't comply. If you bothered to read the rest of my post you would notice that I said the airline mishandled the situation and should have acted differently. At the same time, them removing this person is not a "breach of contract" or "illegal" or whatever. Always read the fine print.

iwearpurple
04-11-2017, 12:01 PM
Sure, and they why wouldn't they? If the flight wasn't full and they removed a person because he/she was a Muslim that is obviously textbook profiling. That has nothing to do with this situation. The person was removed from this flight because his seat number was randomly selected by a computer on a full flight (where they needed their employees to board) and he didn't comply. If you bothered to read the rest of my post you would notice that I said the airline mishandled the situation and should have acted differently. At the same time, them removing this person is not a "breach of contract" or "illegal" or whatever. Always read the fine print.

But I am saying that every liberal would be screaming their lungs out, whether the flight was full or not if they removed a Muslim. You know I am correct on that.

I did read your whole post. If you bothered to read my whole post, you would clearly see that I was agreeing with you on how it was handled improperly.

Now, you claiming it is not illegal, there are lawyers on TV saying that it is illegal because they were already seated. I have no idea if this is correct or not. We'll see how it plays out.

FantasticDan
04-11-2017, 01:25 PM
Watch until the end for the United commercial :pound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV28_ENzFog

ReplayRandall
04-11-2017, 01:49 PM
Watch until the end for the United commercial :pound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV28_ENzFog

That's some big time in your face funny stuff...:ThmbUp:

HoofedInTheChest
04-11-2017, 02:36 PM
United Airlines - "Not enough seating? Prepare for a beating."

Clocker
04-11-2017, 03:21 PM
http://68.media.tumblr.com/094aabb02f8f753b4bf28ace1a4d0aee/tumblr_inline_oo93fdWHeI1t63ajm_500.jpg

Elliott Sidewater
04-11-2017, 05:12 PM
A DOCTOR, asked to surrender his seat to a "United employee"? To a CIA or an FBI employee, yes...but, COME ON. I thought "the customer is KING".
They treated him like a king.........Rodney King.

Fager Fan
04-11-2017, 06:05 PM
Uh huh. If they removed an individual because they were Muslim, every liberal in this country would be screaming their lungs out.

The proper way this should have been done is the way it is handled every day. The airline keeps bumping the offer up until someone accepts it. Almost EVERYONE at some point will accept some offer. But no, United decided they weren't going to offer more than $800.00. So now, this will cost them millions in lost revenue and it should. Secondly, it absolutely should have been done before everyone is on the plane. Once, I'm on the plane, no way am I volunteering to leave.

I'm pretty sure if you checked a bag, it won't be staying behind with you either.

Fager Fan
04-11-2017, 06:15 PM
It's not as if the employees were flying standby for vacation or anything, they had to be on the flight to work a flight the next morning. Without a flight crew to man that flight the next morning, it would have been delayed or even cancelled, thus creating a ripple effect down the line.

How the hell did they have an entire crew that needed to be placed in Louisville? A serious screwup on their part is what that is, and they expect passengers to be inconvenienced for their screw up?

If there is some kind of catch-all in the fine print, then I'd expect it to be for a reasonable reason that they jerk me off a flight. There are all sorts of reasons why someone may not have the luxury of not getting home (or to their destination) when planned. This was an unreasonable reason.

In addition, can we negotiate that fine print? No, which makes it not airtight legal.

Clocker
04-11-2017, 08:44 PM
I find it crazy that no one jumped at the $800+hotel offer. I've been on flights where they were looking for volunteers to give up their seat and I've never seen it get above $300 before people are practically jumping over others to get that money.

And another thing that's good to know if you should ever find yourself in this situation: you don't have to take the compensation in airline vouchers. You CAN request a check.


In the US, they don't have to offer cash if you volunteer, and I have never heard of it being done. If you are involuntarily bumped, you can demand cash. I assume no one on that flight leapt at the $800 because it was a voucher for more crappy flights on United.

Clocker
04-11-2017, 08:47 PM
How the hell did they have an entire crew that needed to be placed in Louisville?

Flight crews are restricted by law as to how many hours they can work and how much rest time they must have before returning to work. The crew originally schedule for that flight the next day probably worked a flight that was delayed and put in too many hours.

kingfin66
04-11-2017, 09:32 PM
I do agree at some point he should have given up the fight but still doesn't make United right.

This is generally my opinion as well. It is 90 % a major **** up by United, but at some point there does need to be a respect for authority (were they authorities who took him off the plane). The screaming and physical resistance was not necessary to that extreme.

Fager Fan
04-12-2017, 08:48 AM
This is generally my opinion as well. It is 90 % a major **** up by United, but at some point there does need to be a respect for authority (were they authorities who took him off the plane). The screaming and physical resistance was not necessary to that extreme.

He started screaming when someone not only put their hands on him, but also when he was being jerked over the armrest. He was seated at the window with the middle armrest down. I've sat in that seat enough times to know you can't get out, at least not easily or without some pain, with that armrest down. I think someone being manhandled over the armrest would cause loud vocals by anyone to whom that was done.

OntheRail
04-12-2017, 01:02 PM
Flight crews are restricted by law as to how many hours they can work and how much rest time they must have before returning to work. The crew originally schedule for that flight the next day probably worked a flight that was delayed and put in too many hours.

Once they board you they have accepted carriage...

So why didn't they take those crew members by ground... it's a what four hour drive to shuttle the needed crew. Would of cost less then the $3200 offered up. And no adverse backlash for being As-holes to paying customers.

garyscpa
04-12-2017, 01:10 PM
This is generally my opinion as well. It is 90 % a major **** up by United, but at some point there does need to be a respect for authority (were they authorities who took him off the plane). The screaming and physical resistance was not necessary to that extreme.

Hey, I'll be the authority here.

delayjf
04-12-2017, 02:24 PM
The passenger had a right to be upset, but once he was asked by the police to leave the plane, he should have left. Watching the video, I thought it was a bit mellow dramatic. At one point he was begging the police to "kill me now" - give me a break. If he refused to leave, at that point, they should have let him stay, select another individual to depart - and arrest the Dr. as he got off the plane in Louisville.

The big mistake was to board the plane, then demand passengers give up their seat.

delayjf
04-12-2017, 05:27 PM
Latest is that he was on his phone to his lawyer while the Police were attempting to get him to cooperate and leave the plane. In the same video he's telling the officers that they will have to drag him off the plane. Has been in the hospital all day claiming to have a concussion.:rolleyes:

Fager Fan
04-12-2017, 05:48 PM
I'm surprised at the number of you who think the guy should've gotten off the plane. If I don't give up my seat willingly, then it better be one hell of an emergency to force me off the flight. I paid for it, and if I don't give it up willingly, then I either must be home or want to be home, and they have the duty to honor my ticket.

I wouldn't get up either, and I'd warn them that if anyone touches me, that I'll consider it assault and will press charges.

It's BS that they can do this to anyone. The only time a paying customer should be removed is if they pose some kind of threat. Otherwise, sorry, no way.

Clocker
04-12-2017, 06:13 PM
they have the duty to honor my ticket.



The ticket is a contract between you and the airline, and the contract gives them the right to deny you service on that flight. You agree to that and give them that right when you buy the ticket.
1. Can airlines just throw seated passengers off planes?

Yes. When you purchase an airline ticket youíre also entering into a detailed contract that specifies the many rights an airline has related to the trip. One of them allows the carrier to seize your seat in return for compensation and an alternate means of transport, usually on a later flight. Airlines also can determine that when their employees must be somewhere for duty -- a status that, yes, may place them ahead of paying customers -- a passengerís seat can be taken. Thatís because not positioning a crew member can lead to a future flight cancellation or delay.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-11/can-airlines-really-do-that-bumping-and-the-law-quicktake-q-a

Fager Fan
04-12-2017, 06:40 PM
The ticket is a contract between you and the airline, and the contract gives them the right to deny you service on that flight. You agree to that and give them that right when you buy the ticket.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-11/can-airlines-really-do-that-bumping-and-the-law-quicktake-q-a

I've bought plenty of tickets. None of that is there. I've read every screen. I've seen every bit of print on my boarding passes. It's awfully convenient that we're supposedly agreeing to terms that no one sees nor could they do anything about it they do see.

Contract law isn't as cut and dry as what is on a piece of paper. Part of what determines legality is the ability to negotiate and the necessity of the contract in which one is entering. I haven't hear of anyone who knew they were subject for getting kicked off a flight through nothing they do wrong. If they've been granted this authority by law, we may see it changed. We'll see if there are some consequences. I know I will be making a point to never book an United flight.

Racetrack Playa
04-12-2017, 06:47 PM
Just watched some video , that response from the cops was disgusting, uncalled for and criminal.... I hope Dr. Dao is ok , dude is like 70 years old.

Clocker
04-12-2017, 06:56 PM
I've bought plenty of tickets. None of that is there. I've read every screen. I've seen every bit of print on my boarding passes. It's awfully convenient that we're supposedly agreeing to terms that no one sees nor could they do anything about it they do see.

Contract law isn't as cut and dry as what is on a piece of paper. Part of what determines legality is the ability to negotiate and the necessity of the contract in which one is entering. I haven't hear of anyone who knew they were subject for getting kicked off a flight through nothing they do wrong. If they've been granted this authority by law, we may see it changed. We'll see if there are some consequences. I know I will be making a point to never book an United flight.

Passengers are not given a copy of the Contract of Carriage Document. But they agree to it when they buy a ticket. It is on the United web site or you can get a copy from any ticket agent. All airlines do the same thing, and all have contract language about the same.

The US Department of Transportation puts out a guide to passenger rights, and in there it says that all airline passengers are subject to involuntary bumps.

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking (https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#Overbooking)

MutuelClerk
04-12-2017, 07:03 PM
I'm surprised at the number of you who think the guy should've gotten off the plane. If I don't give up my seat willingly, then it better be one hell of an emergency to force me off the flight. I paid for it, and if I don't give it up willingly, then I either must be home or want to be home, and they have the duty to honor my ticket.

I wouldn't get up either, and I'd warn them that if anyone touches me, that I'll consider it assault and will press charges.

It's BS that they can do this to anyone. The only time a paying customer should be removed is if they pose some kind of threat. Otherwise, sorry, no way.

Well Said. 100% agree.

Tom
04-12-2017, 08:07 PM
The pilot should have made an announcement that the flight was being delayed by the passenger in seat X-A, and it would not depart until he left the plane.

The other passengers would have thrown his body onto the tarmac.

JustRalph
04-12-2017, 09:04 PM
The pilot should have made an announcement that the flight was being delayed by the passenger in seat X-A, and it would not depart until he left the plane.

The other passengers would have thrown his body onto the tarmac.

Brilliant!!

kingfin66
04-12-2017, 09:24 PM
He started screaming when someone not only put their hands on him, but also when he was being jerked over the armrest. He was seated at the window with the middle armrest down. I've sat in that seat enough times to know you can't get out, at least not easily or without some pain, with that armrest down. I think someone being manhandled over the armrest would cause loud vocals by anyone to whom that was done.

I guess the point that I was trying to make, not very well, is that he should have capitulated when the guys in badges showed up. He refused, refused, refused. They didn't just come and grab him. There is new video today where he clearly states, "I'm not going." Like I said, I think that United is almost entirely at fault, but this guy was overly defiant in my opinion.

I have seen people invited off planes before; usually when returning from Cabo and because the passengers were drunk. Never have those passengers, passengers who may be expected to be belligerent due to intoxication, ever refused or made any type of scene.

Fager Fan
04-12-2017, 11:15 PM
I guess the point that I was trying to make, not very well, is that he should have capitulated when the guys in badges showed up. He refused, refused, refused. They didn't just come and grab him. There is new video today where he clearly states, "I'm not going." Like I said, I think that United is almost entirely at fault, but this guy was overly defiant in my opinion.

I have seen people invited off planes before; usually when returning from Cabo and because the passengers were drunk. Never have those passengers, passengers who may be expected to be belligerent due to intoxication, ever refused or made any type of scene.

I feel for the guy in the situation because air travel is already a huge pain in the ass, with piss poor customer service, constant delays, BS "mechanical problem" excuses, late flights, canceled flights, arrive an hour or even two hours early so they have time to probe your bodies, take away your water and then charge you $3 for a bottle of water inside. That just barely begins to describe the crappy world of air travel, where your time is worth zero, and they hardly give a damn when they create havoc with your plans.

And now they want to take me off a flight through no fault of my own? All because they wouldn't make financial offers decent enough to get volunteers? With my past travel experiences, including the wonderful night that they made hundreds of us sleep in the check in area, with no chairs, without our luggage, wouldn't even allow us back to a gate where there were chairs to sit or lay on to sleep, maybe for God's sake pass out some pillows and blankets...... you get my drift. My blood-pressure rises just entering the terminal, so I can get someone losing it over being kicked off a flight like this.

Needless to say, I drive whenever I can. A dozen hours in a car is far preferable to flying.

johnhannibalsmith
04-12-2017, 11:36 PM
... A dozen hours in a car is far preferable to flying.

A dozen hours in Abu Grahib is preferable to flying.

NJ Stinks
04-12-2017, 11:57 PM
The pilot should have made an announcement that the flight was being delayed by the passenger in seat X-A, and it would not depart until he left the plane.

The other passengers would have thrown his body onto the tarmac.

Even I have to admit you nailed it! :D:ThmbUp:

Clocker
04-13-2017, 12:01 AM
Not even Hitler removed passengers after they were seated! :eek:

reckless
04-13-2017, 07:47 AM
I haven't seen or heard much of anything along these lines but ...

... Since United feels their employees are more valuable than paying customers, where were these employees before they started to fill the plane? They weren't at the gate when the time came to embark, only after the plane was basically filled, no? I truly don't believe United was guilty of 'overbooking'; I think they were acting the part of a company simply too big to fail... which being a near total monopoly also breeds arrogance and contempt for the customer.

... The passenger claimed he was a doctor and needed to fly on that flight because he had patients to see the next morning, right? Well, shouldn't someone at United have thought that this fact alone was an important enough reason not to bounce him?

lamboguy
04-13-2017, 07:59 AM
I haven't seen or heard much of anything along these lines but ...

... Since United feels their employees are more valuable than paying customers, where were these employees before they started to fill the plane? They weren't at the gate when the time came to embark, only after the plane was basically filled, no? I truly don't believe United was guilty of 'overbooking'; I think they were acting the part of a company simply too big to fail... which being a near total monopoly also breeds arrogance and contempt for the customer.

... The passenger claimed he was a doctor and needed to fly on that flight because he had patients to see the next morning, right? Well, shouldn't someone at United have thought that this fact alone was an important enough reason not to bounce him?we now live in the age where kids grow up and don't know how to manually add, subtract, multiply or divide numbers. their education is what is called "common core". they have no common sense whatsoever and what is really even worse is they really could care less about anyone else but themselves.

Clocker
04-13-2017, 12:51 PM
... The passenger claimed he was a doctor and needed to fly on that flight because he had patients to see the next morning, right? Well, shouldn't someone at United have thought that this fact alone was an important enough reason not to bounce him?

I doubt that gate agents have this kind of discretion. United's story is that the involuntary bumped passengers were chosen randomly by a computer, which is not credible. How many high-mileage frequent fliers ever get bumped?

A number of articles about this, by people who appeared to be knowledgeable on the subject, said that all airlines use a computer algorithm for such things. The computer ratings are based on a number of factors, with frequent flyers being bullet-proof. A big factor appears to be that the less you paid for your ticket, the more likely you are to be bumped. I doubt the agents can override the computer.

FantasticDan
04-13-2017, 12:56 PM
I doubt the agents can override the computer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4pcIuo6Kbw

Elliott Sidewater
04-13-2017, 01:03 PM
I doubt that gate agents have this kind of discretion. United's story is that the involuntary bumped passengers were chosen randomly by a computer, which is not credible. How many high-mileage frequent fliers ever get bumped?

A number of articles about this, by people who appeared to be knowledgeable on the subject, said that all airlines use a computer algorithm for such things. The computer ratings are based on a number of factors, with frequent flyers being bullet-proof. A big factor appears to be that the less you paid for your ticket, the more likely you are to be bumped. I doubt the agents can override the computer.
Some people are more random than others.

Clocker
04-13-2017, 01:13 PM
Some people are more random than others.

I know from personal experience from when I used to fly a lot that the gate agents have a passenger manifest with details about your ticket and frequent flyer status.

chadk66
04-13-2017, 01:55 PM
I was listening to the Dr's attorney today at their press conference. This is going to get ugly. United is going to pay out the azz. Congress will be in this up to their ears before long. The guy has a broken nose and a concussion. Having reconstructive surgery on his nose. I can hear the till ringing from here.

Saratoga_Mike
04-13-2017, 02:14 PM
Latest is that he was on his phone to his lawyer while the Police were attempting to get him to cooperate and leave the plane. In the same video he's telling the officers that they will have to drag him off the plane. Has been in the hospital all day claiming to have a concussion.:rolleyes:

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but it appears you're the only one who gets what the good doctor was up to.

chadk66
04-13-2017, 02:51 PM
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but it appears you're the only one who gets what the good doctor was up to.there are numerous videos of the whole thing so if that was the case it'll be plastered all over soon.

Saratoga_Mike
04-13-2017, 02:56 PM
there are numerous videos of the whole thing so if that was the case it'll be plastered all over soon.

Please research the doctor's background, then draw your own conclusions.

kingfin66
04-13-2017, 03:50 PM
There was certainly a lot of hyperbole being thrown out at the press conference today. He was more scared than he was when he fled Vietnam? It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

kingfin66
04-13-2017, 03:52 PM
we now live in the age where kids grow up and don't know how to manually add, subtract, multiply or divide numbers. their education is what is called "common core". they have no common sense whatsoever and what is really even worse is they really could care less about anyone else but themselves.
It seems like a big reach to blame this on common core. Common sense maybe, or lack thereof.

Clocker
04-13-2017, 04:57 PM
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/242/248/a96.jpg
...

Fager Fan
04-13-2017, 06:30 PM
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but it appears you're the only one who gets what the good doctor was up to.

Or maybe there's nothing to get.

Fager Fan
04-13-2017, 06:33 PM
Here's an argument that gets me. I'm hearing how overbooking is allowed, and without it, our ticket prices will go up. Reason? Because they have a number of no-shows.

What? So what if they have no-shows? If you're a no-show, the airline still got paid for the seat since you don't get your money back on a no-show. What they're doing now is collecting twice on a number of seats.

kingfin66
04-13-2017, 11:54 PM
The Gracie brothers have released a video of self-defense techniques to use when being dragged off a plane. Of course, in Dr. Dao's case, his being unconscious precluded him from utilizing the techniques.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq3OjQexeUA

kingfin66
04-14-2017, 12:36 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-united-legally-wrong-deplane-134223391.html

tucker6
05-01-2017, 11:23 AM
As a United frequent flyer, I got this in an email this morning from the CEO of United.


Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United Ė and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

Thatís why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board Ė except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things donít go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways weíre going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust youíve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines

Clocker
05-01-2017, 10:12 PM
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000
What about involuntary reaccommodation? I assume that $10K is in flight vouchers, not in cash.

Lemon Drop Husker
05-01-2017, 10:42 PM
What about involuntary reaccommodation? I assume that $10K is in flight vouchers, not in cash.

I'm not a frequent flyer, but I fly upwards of 16 to 22 times a year round trip.

You are never guaranteed a seat on any plane. Ever. When flying commercial.

3 people got off that United plane without an ounce of trouble. Crazy Dr. Dao went off the plane, somehow got back one in full crazy mode, and the only video people see is him getting dragged off.

Moral of the story? Be an absolute asshole, you might just get paid.

JustRalph
10-17-2017, 08:21 PM
Fired

https://apnews.com/4b26d7d6f8a34eef860c7aa6fc88a05c?utm_campaign=Soci alFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APCentralRegion

MutuelClerk
10-17-2017, 08:41 PM
BFD. Sure fire the security guards who just followed orders. Why don't you fire the person who made the call? Gutless. Welcome to the Politicizing of America.

Fager Fan
10-18-2017, 09:10 AM
I'm not a frequent flyer, but I fly upwards of 16 to 22 times a year round trip.

You are never guaranteed a seat on any plane. Ever. When flying commercial.

3 people got off that United plane without an ounce of trouble. Crazy Dr. Dao went off the plane, somehow got back one in full crazy mode, and the only video people see is him getting dragged off.

Moral of the story? Be an absolute asshole, you might just get paid.

I missed this post earlier. When I pay for a ticket, I absolutely do expect that I am guaranteed of a seat on that flight. I don't know how many people pay for tickets and then simply don't show up for the flight, but it's hard to believe it's that many. If they want it to hardly ever happen, then they should do away with the non-refundable tickets, but they like to pocket that cash. If they overbook, that's their problem, not the customer's, and no customer should be forced to give up their seat.

kingfin66
10-20-2017, 12:57 AM
I'm not a frequent flyer, but I fly upwards of 16 to 22 times a year round trip.

You are never guaranteed a seat on any plane. Ever. When flying commercial.

3 people got off that United plane without an ounce of trouble. Crazy Dr. Dao went off the plane, somehow got back one in full crazy mode, and the only video people see is him getting dragged off.

Moral of the story? Be an absolute asshole, you might just get paid.

This is kind of old news at this point as the airline settled with Dr. Dao. I wonder how much he got? At any rate, 16-22 flights per year is a lot. You should be considered a frequent flyer at that rate! As far as getting off the flight, that is the issue to me. If the airline wanted to bump passengers, they need to do it before they get on the plane, not after they are in their seats. Should Dr. Dao have put up that much of a fight? Hell no, but ultimately the airline did not like the PR or their chances in a lawsuit, so they settled.