Planned Parenthood bill, passes

[JustRalph]

Trump will sign a bill tomorrow that will severely cripple Planned Parenthood.

Another promise kept

[NJ Stinks]

Trump will sign a bill tomorrow that will severely cripple Planned Parenthood.

Another promise kept

One of us is part of the problem.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Abortion doesn't need public funding. Planned Parenthood does plenty of other good things that I have seen. Personally I don't like sweeping generalizations.

[thaskalos]

We don't want public funding for abortions...and we don't want public funds to support unwanted babies. So...what happens to these unwanted babies after they are born?

[CincyHorseplayer]

We don't want public funding for abortions...and we don't want public funds to support unwanted babies. So...what happens to these unwanted babies after they are born?

They get condemned.

[thaskalos]

They get condemned.

Ahh...OK then. :ThmbUp:

[CincyHorseplayer]

We don't want public funding for abortions...and we don't want public funds to support unwanted babies. So...what happens to these unwanted babies after they are born?

It's funny how that works isn't it? Pro lifers want to keep potential future welfare recipients alive. The bitching cycle never ends!:cool:

[thaskalos]

It's funny how that works isn't it? Pro lifers want to keep potential future welfare recipients alive. The bitching cycle never ends!:cool:

It would be funny...if it weren't so TRAGIC. The "pro-lifers" are overwhelmed by "love" for the unborn babies...but they want nothing to do with them once they are born.

[Clocker]

One of us is part of the problem.

What is the problem? The law says no federal funding of abortion. PP does abortions. Funding is fungible. You can't, excuse the expression, build a wall between the various expenditures within an organization and say that the money from this source of income goes only to that area of spending.

If PP wants federal money, it needs to spin off its abortion operations into a totally separate, independent organization with 100% private funding.

[LottaKash]

If PP wants federal money, it needs to spin off its abortion operations into a totally separate, independent organization with 100% private funding.

That may be another viable way to offset the madness of murdering your baby...Perhaps that may go along way in evening this thing out

I don't have the answer, but to kill your baby for the sake of irresponsibility or inconvenience is a heinous crime In My Opinion...

I object to have to pay for that..!!!!!

[davew]

For the people using abortion as 'birth control' and 'family planning', maybe planned parenthood can start doing sterilizations.

[tucker6]

Why should I pay for someone else's mistakes? If they can make a baby, then they can fund the abortion. I have no issues with their right to an abortion, even if I wouldn't myself. However, I should not have to pay for their mistakes. Maybe we'd have less babies being borne into poverty if more people suffered more of the consequences of their actions. I hear many couples are lining up to adopt babies, even to the point of going overseas. Why not streamline and cheapen the adoption process in the US to allow more of these aborted babies to come to full term and be adopted? That is a better use of tax money imo.

[chadk66]

What is the problem? The law says no federal funding of abortion. PP does abortions. Funding is fungible. You can't, excuse the expression, build a wall between the various expenditures within an organization and say that the money from this source of income goes only to that area of spending.

If PP wants federal money, it needs to spin off its abortion operations into a totally separate, independent organization with 100% private funding.this is exactly what I've been screaming for years.:ThmbUp:

[chadk66]

For the people using abortion as 'birth control' and 'family planning', maybe planned parenthood can start doing sterilizations.yep, do that instead of abortions. and supply birth control if nothing else. as long as abortions are being done in the same building they can't separate the federal funds from non federal funds for abortions. let the liberals donate the cash for the abortions since the so desire them

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Trump will sign a bill tomorrow that will severely cripple Planned Parenthood.

Another promise kept

I haven't seen the specifics of the bill, but I do know that Trump frequently complimented Planned Parenthood during the campaign on some of the things they do.

[Grits]

It would be funny...if it weren't so TRAGIC. The "pro-lifers" are overwhelmed by "love" for the unborn babies...but they want nothing to do with them once they are born.

Truer words have never been typed here.

The Pro-Life rail and rail but you don't see them becoming involved in foster care, or considering adoption of even a preschool or elementary age child. Sure, maybe there would be some interest in newborns.

Still, good luck little ones. :(

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

The Pro-Life rail and rail but you don't see them becoming involved in foster care, or considering adoption of even a preschool or elementary age child. Sure, maybe there would be some interest in newborns.

:(

And you know this, how?

How come the pro-choice extremists NEVER interview parents who murdered their unborn children twenty years down the road? I have spoken to many of them and they ALL regret what they did. 100% Many of them have serious emotional issues.

One well known example is the instigator of Roe V Wade who became pro-life.

[Grits]

And you know this, how?

I have spoken to many of them

I bet you have. :rolleyes:

[classhandicapper]

We don't want public funding for abortions...and we don't want public funds to support unwanted babies. So...what happens to these unwanted babies after they are born?

Huge problem.

My prescription would be to stop normalizing having kids out of wedlock as we have done in recent decades, start promoting charitable contributions heavily, start promoting good foster care, and allocate significant funds to care for unwanted babies until we change the culture and reduce the problem (which could be a very very very long time given all the damage we have done).

In my idealistically delusional libertarian la la land (the difference being that I know my version is la la land as opposed to liberals who are in la la land now but don't know it) the culture would be changed, the problem would be reduced, and successful people would be so generous there would be no need for a government stop gap.

[boxcar]

We don't want public funding for abortions...and we don't want public funds to support unwanted babies. So...what happens to these unwanted babies after they are born?

Well...that's where these ever-so-loving don't-wannabe mommies get to exercise their free choices. What do they love more: their unbridled sexual freedom or their infants?

[boxcar]

Why should I pay for someone else's mistakes? If they can make a baby, then they can fund the abortion. I have no issues with their right to an abortion, even if I wouldn't myself. However, I should not have to pay for their mistakes. Maybe we'd have less babies being borne into poverty if more people suffered more of the consequences of their actions. I hear many couples are lining up to adopt babies, even to the point of going overseas. Why not streamline and cheapen the adoption process in the US to allow more of these aborted babies to come to full term and be adopted? That is a better use of tax money imo.

It makes too much sense and takes control away from the U.S. government. Don 't forget: Identity Politics is about the government having the power to manipulate and control their constituents. Plus all women with unwanted pregnancies are victims, don't you know?

[Inner Dirt]

It's funny how that works isn't it? Pro lifers want to keep potential future welfare recipients alive. The bitching cycle never ends!:cool:

Abortion is one of those issues where I agree with Democrats. I am not religious so I don't have those type beliefs influencing my decision. I cannot fathom how forcing a women to give birth to an unwanted baby can have good results. Pregnant women who want the children can be quite irrational because of the changes they go through. Do you really want to force drug users to carry children to term?

[davew]

It is probably a small group that feel abortion should be illegal and not allowed.

It is probably a much larger group that feel the country should not give money to Planned Parenthood SO THEY CAN DONATE TO DEMOCRAT CAMPAIGNS to get future increased payments.


Trump needs to should stop any public funding if some of that money goes back to political campaigns.

[Grits]

Abortion is one of those issues where I agree with Democrats. I am not religious so I don't have those type beliefs influencing my decision. I cannot fathom how forcing a women to give birth to an unwanted baby can have good results. Pregnant women who want the children can be quite irrational because of the changes they go through. Do you really want to force drug users to carry children to term?

You have an extremely good point, Inner. Granted, I'm a mother of just one child, and he has Down Syndrome. This is a tough subject because my son is incredible! A love, a joy like no other.

I firmly believe that the only thing on this earth that is more tragic than an abortion, more traumatic for all involved, is a baby, a child that is not wanted. That child doesn't ever know love, care and attention. As someone noted, he or she is "condemned" from the very beginning.

Do you all, others here, think the only office that abortions take place daily is at Planned Parenthood? If so, you'd be profoundly mistaken. Doctors recommend them everyday, and quietly perform them upon reviewing Amniocentesis and Chorionic Villi Sampling test results with couples. Everyday doctors bring unwelcome (to many) news to parents that there is an abnormality. So, unborn lives are terminated. These babies may have Down Syndrome, Tay Sachs, Spina Bifida, Cystic Fibrosis, Cerebral Palsy, etc, etc.

Taking a life is taking a life, no matter who pays for it. That life is the same regardless whether it's Blue Cross & Blue Shield or Planned Parenthood.

JessHawsenArown, says he's talked to many.... I bet he hasn't talked to as many of these women as I have--women who needed my help. Women who I've sat with, holding their hands. I counseled a young doctor, years ago, who dearly loved his newborn son. However, his wife was so ashamed their son was born with Downs. "This doesn't fit into my plan of how our life is to be. IT just doesn't."

I loathe people who stand on street corners when they've experienced little--in real life.. :bang:

The majority of abortions, gentlemen, as I've told many, "you never, ever hear of." Their babies are silenced--including the impoverished and the well to do. :( (Thank you all for reading my thoughts.)

[chadk66]

Truer words have never been typed here.

The Pro-Life rail and rail but you don't see them becoming involved in foster care, or considering adoption of even a preschool or elementary age child. Sure, maybe there would be some interest in newborns.

Still, good luck little ones. :(totally not true. I know many pro-lifers that have adopted or fostered kids of all ages. couple weeks ago I inquired about adopting five siblings that they didn't want to separate.

[chadk66]

the government needs to fully fund research for a birth control shot that can be given once a year. If a woman wishes to receive welfare benefits, and is unemployed, she has to take the annual shot. That would solve numerous social issues in this country as well as financial ones.

[tucker6]

It makes too much sense and takes control away from the U.S. government. Don 't forget: Identity Politics is about the government having the power to manipulate and control their constituents.

That is the real point on many of these issues. It is about govt control of our everyday lives. I wish our liberal friends could admit the changes over the last 50 years where charity and being a good citizen were in the forefront of our national minds (remember Kennedy), but has now been pushed to the back of society's thought process and instead replaced with the, "govt is better able to allocate the resources and understand how best to deal with the problems". I don't agree with the notion that the federal govt knows best, and I challenge anyone to give examples of when the feds got it right over private efforts.

[Grits]

totally not true. I know many pro-lifers that have adopted or fostered kids of all ages. couple weeks ago I inquired about adopting five siblings that they didn't want to separate.

I applaud you!! But, I'm sorry, if this were totally not true, if this was the norm, of many pro--lifers, we would not have a problem, state to state, county to county, nationwide of foster care programs in need.

It seems that the aging process of couples who've been foster parents for years is a factor. Younger couples are not as interested. To be honest, prolife or prochoice, it doesn't matter. Every child deserves a home.

This is one opinion piece.

https://chronicleofsocialchange.org/child-welfare-2/kids-fewer-homes/20504

[boxcar]

Abortion is one of those issues where I agree with Democrats. I am not religious so I don't have those type beliefs influencing my decision. I cannot fathom how forcing a women to give birth to an unwanted baby can have good results. Pregnant women who want the children can be quite irrational because of the changes they go through. Do you really want to force drug users to carry children to term?

How 'bout we sterilize the drug users instead of punishing the innocent human life within their womb?

[chadk66]

I applaud you!! But, I'm sorry, if this were totally not true, if this was the norm, of many pro--lifers, we would not have a problem, state to state, county to county, nationwide of foster care programs in need.

It seems that the aging process of couples who've been foster parents for years is a factor. Younger couples are not as interested. To be honest, prolife or prochoice, it doesn't matter. Every child deserves a home.

This is one opinion piece.

https://chronicleofsocialchange.org/child-welfare-2/kids-fewer-homes/20504the problem now is that there are 54 million on food stamps alone. and reproducing like flies. there aren't even enough pro-lifers in a position to even foster kids. Sure there are many that are and don't. That's why something has to be done on the front end. Even if it's giving them the morning after pill every damn day :)

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

I bet you have. :rolleyes:

You may doubt how many with whom I have spoken. But do you doubt that their despair is not universal?

[LottaKash]

the problem now is that there are 54 million on food stamps alone. and reproducing like flies. there aren't even enough pro-lifers in a position to even foster kids. :)

Like an infection and scourge on America now...What has happened to common sense and taking responsibility for your life's decisions...?

Now it is Drugs and Freebies, for All Americans...

Go screw your brains out, take a lot of drugs, LIfe is GOOD...

What good is a baby born to a crackhead? Should we KILL IT ?...When we ask that questions such as these in earnest, then we ARE TRULY LOST as a God fearing/loving Nation...

[thaskalos]

Like an infection and scourge on America now...What has happened to common sense and taking responsibility for your life's decisions...?

Now it is Drugs and Freebies, for All Americans...

Go screw your brains out, take a lot of drugs, LIfe is GOOD...

What good is a baby born to a crackhead? Should we KILL IT ?...When we ask that questions such as these in earnest, then we ARE TRULY LOST as a God fearing/loving Nation...

Why should we be a "God fearing/loving Nation"?

Religious belief should be a PERSONAL choice...not a national mandate.

[davew]

Why should we be a "God fearing/loving Nation"?

Religious belief should be a PERSONAL choice...not a national mandate.

Especially when the last administration wants to turn the USA into muslim country.

[thaskalos]

Especially when the last administration wants to turn the USA into muslim country.

Yes...I noticed that. Luckily...I fought hard and they couldn't convert me. :ThmbUp:

[LottaKash]

Why should we be a "God fearing/loving Nation"?

Religious belief should be a PERSONAL choice...not a national mandate.

It is, and imho, it is a far better choice than just slinging your hands in the air and declaring that we should just get on with it, and murder our offspring because it is too much work to have them any longer...

That is what I hear from many of you...Pity

How can anything in life improve with a mindset such as this one...Kill your baby..

[Grits]

Like an infection and scourge on America now...What has happened to common sense and taking responsibility for your life's decisions...?

Now it is Drugs and Freebies, for All Americans...

Go screw your brains out, take a lot of drugs, LIfe is GOOD...

What good is a baby born to a crackhead? Should we KILL IT ?...When we ask that questions such as these in earnest, then we ARE TRULY LOST as a God fearing/loving Nation...

When was the last time you walked into a large medical center's NICU?

You obviously haven't at any time recently. Otherwise you would know that more babies are born everyday now that are heroin addicted rather than crack addicted. Some of these babies survive, some do not.

As for your last quote, I'm sorry but you don't read well. I don't need your pity as, I, the only woman who has commented in this thread, and the only mother whose child is special needs, have not suggested to a living soul...kill your baby.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I need a license to drive a car.

I need to be 18 to vote.

I have to have a passport to travel internationally, and some form of ID to travel within the United States.

Yet..., I don't need anything, not even consent from a partner (yes, children are born out of rape), to have a child.

Why not require at least a license to have a child? A child, which is the most important investment anybody can make in their entire lives.

Numerous studies have been done, and children born out of wedlock, and in poverty, are doomed from the beginning.

Be PC all you want, but there are gene pools that simply don't need to be reproduced.

[JustRalph]

Just for the record, the thread wasn't about abortion. It was about Trump fulfilling another promise.

No matter how you feel about abortion, Planned Parenthood is an obvious kickback scheme that benefits Democrats. No different than Solyndra, Amtrak and "the arts"

There are segments of our society that are disproportionately damaged by abortion. They encourage reckless behavior and create a permanent under class and the open availability of abortion makes it easy.

http://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics

Read some of these stats and think about them. 40 percent are frequent flyers.

37% of pregnancies in New York City ended in abortion. ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME?

"WHO IS DOING THE ABORTIONS?
The number of abortion providers declined by 3% between 2011 and 2014—from 1,720 to 1,671 (AGI).
In 2011, 42% of providers offered very early abortions (during the first four weeks’ gestation) and 95% offered abortion at eight weeks. Sixty-four percent of providers offer at least some second-trimester abortion services (13 weeks or later), and 20% offer abortion after 20 weeks. Eleven percent of all abortion providers offered abortions past 24 weeks (AGI).
Most abortions in the USA are provided in freestanding clinics; in 2005, only 5% occurred in hospitals, down from 22% in 1980, and only 2% took place in physician's offices (NAF)."

[Grits]

I'm not comfortable relying on a right wing Evangelical think tank to find stats on abortion. It is a medical procedure, therefore, stats are at the CDC. And I trust this information more than I trust someone asking for a donation "to the cause".

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/ss/ss6512a1.htm

I don't see abortion and think...Democrat. Seriously.

I see abortion and think...a life ended.

We're all tired of paying for others, myself included.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I'm not comfortable relying on a right wing Evangelical think tank to find stats on abortion. It is a medical procedure, therefore, stats are at the CDC. And I trust this information more than I trust someone asking for a donation "to the cause".

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/ss/ss6512a1.htm

I don't see abortion and think...Democrat. Seriously.

I see abortion and think...a life ended.

We're all tired of paying for others, myself included.


I look at abortion as misery avoided for the potential child, mother, and family that could be involved.

There are over 7 Billion people on this planet. We don't need miserable, poorly cared for, and unloved people put into that mix.

For every paraded foster child story there is 100 or more that live a crap life, loved by nobody, and set for a life of crime and/or prison.

[JustRalph]

And I absolutely do not trust the government numbers, on anything.

[Clocker]

And I absolutely do not trust the government numbers, on anything.

And I don't trust Planned Parenthood's numbers. The law says that federal funding cannot be used for abortions except in the case of rape, incest, or danger to the mother.

PP insists that none of the federal funds it receives is used to fund abortion. Money is money, it is fungible. You can't trace the serial numbers on the dollars PP gets and see what they spend it on.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Abortion is one of those issues where I agree with Democrats. I am not religious so I don't have those type beliefs influencing my decision. I cannot fathom how forcing a women to give birth to an unwanted baby can have good results. Pregnant women who want the children can be quite irrational because of the changes they go through. Do you really want to force drug users to carry children to term?

Right. I for the record and pro life concerning me. And I am a great example because I had children very early in life. I was 17 and 19 when my kids were born and there was never a thought to do anything other and my children are great. Have not conceived a child since. Most of these decisions are made by people who live in Ginger Bread Land where everything is cut and dried and decisions perfectly laid out. There is a scary and hostile drug infested, psychotic world out there with many young girls not wanting to bring a child into that world. And by the same token there are many well to do individuals who don't want their 15 year old daughter to have a child and smear their golden appearance. Those people will get the best hidden medical care to preserve their image. Because a person is poor they are condemned for their "Stupidity" and have to either live in shame or have a child they are not equipped for to raise. It happens. It is reality. It is not right. I am pro life for me. But pro choice for somebody else.

[davew]

the government needs to fully fund research for a birth control shot that can be given once a year. If a woman wishes to receive welfare benefits, and is unemployed, she has to take the annual shot. That would solve numerous social issues in this country as well as financial ones.

There are implants that will last up to 4 years.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-control-implant-implanon

But what about the women whose chosen profession is raising their kids for the government? They know more kids is more benefits..

[no breathalyzer]

Right. I for the record and pro life concerning me. And I am a great example because I had children very early in life. I was 17 and 19 when my kids were born and there was never a thought to do anything other and my children are great. Have not conceived a child since. Most of these decisions are made by people who live in Ginger Bread Land where everything is cut and dried and decisions perfectly laid out. There is a scary and hostile drug infested, psychotic world out there with many young girls not wanting to bring a child into that world. And by the same token there are many well to do individuals who don't want their 15 year old daughter to have a child and smear their golden appearance. Those people will get the best hidden medical care to preserve their image. Because a person is poor they are condemned for their "Stupidity" and have to either live in shame or have a child they are not equipped for to raise. It happens. It is reality. It is not right. I am pro life for me. But pro choice for somebody else.

:ThmbUp:Me too... no matter what my personal beliefs are ... which have changed with age

[chadk66]

There are implants that will last up to 4 years.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/birth-control-implant-implanon

But what about the women whose chosen profession is raising their kids for the government? They know more kids is more benefits..well then we damn well need to be pushing for those receiving welfare and not holding down a job having to use this. Like Grits mentioned the NICU units are full of heroin addicted premies. I have a very good friend that has been an RN at children's hospital NICU in Minneapolis for thirty years. I've toured it. It's amazing. And that could be highly prevented by using those implants. But the left would drive it off the cliff if you tried going that direction. Their voter base would shrink considerably.

[Tom]

For the people using abortion as 'birth control' and 'family planning', maybe planned parenthood can start doing sterilizations.

After one abortion, mandatory sterilization.

[reckless]

Far left liberals, racists and those that advocate genocide such as Planned Parenthood simply love to yell and scream 'Stay Out of My Bedroom!!' when conservative politicians want to pass any sort of anti-abortion type legislature.

If said politician is one that wants fiscal responsibility, the abortionists claim they have no heart. They are simply mean people who want to hurt others, especially poor women and rich professional women.

If said politician is one that believes in the sanctity of life, the Planned Parenthood thugs denounce them as those that want to tell women how to live their life. Who the hell are you to suggest anything of the sort. It's my choice, they always say. Go, go, go stand on the corner with your silly signs; too bad, pally, and just get lost.

Yet, the abortionists also demand that the government reach into their their bedrooms.... for that's where they want the sucker, err, taxpayer, to leave the check to pay for their abortion.

[davew]

After one abortion, mandatory sterilization.

too far - what about rape or incest?

[xtb]

Yes...I noticed that. Luckily...I fought hard and they couldn't convert me. :ThmbUp:

That's probably what the people in the middle east are thinking just before their heads are sawed off, by a muslim.

[Tom]

too far - what about rape or incest?

Seems too harsh a punishment for an abortion.

[chadk66]

I don't think sterilization would be right. Some of these women are very young and actually get their lives straightened out. Making them wear a birth control implant makes so much sense that it's ridiculous. Why this isn't being done already is mind boggling.

[thaskalos]

Right. I for the record and pro life concerning me. And I am a great example because I had children very early in life. I was 17 and 19 when my kids were born and there was never a thought to do anything other and my children are great. Have not conceived a child since. Most of these decisions are made by people who live in Ginger Bread Land where everything is cut and dried and decisions perfectly laid out. There is a scary and hostile drug infested, psychotic world out there with many young girls not wanting to bring a child into that world. And by the same token there are many well to do individuals who don't want their 15 year old daughter to have a child and smear their golden appearance. Those people will get the best hidden medical care to preserve their image. Because a person is poor they are condemned for their "Stupidity" and have to either live in shame or have a child they are not equipped for to raise. It happens. It is reality. It is not right. I am pro life for me. But pro choice for somebody else.

Bravo!! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

That's probably what the people in the middle east are thinking just before their heads are sawed off, by a muslim.

How noble of you to be thinking about the people in the middle east. :ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

Setting aside the point of the thread, which was the question of whether public money should be funding abortions at Planned Parenthood, IMO, I'd like to make the point that abortion is not the solution to the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is unwanted pregnancies. Abortion is an attempt to deal with that problem but does absolutely nothing to solve it. IMO, most of the energy should be going into reducing unwanted pregnancies.

This is one of the problems of our society.

We eat too much cake, cookies, candy, snacks and fast food. We drink too much soda, beer, juices, and shakes. We get obese and have all sorts of health problems. Our solution is more and better medications for controlling heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes etc...

No dumb asses.

The solution is not getting obese.

The idea is to identify the core problem and fix it the best you can.

The idea is not to find band-aid solutions that allow you to continue behaving like an irresponsible idiot.

[xtb]

If there were no more abortions, planned parenthood would be out of business so from their point of view, unwanted pregnancies are a good thing. Perhaps if there is any hope of outlawing abortions, PP needs to go first.

[Tom]

If they want to abort, I am not going to stop them.
But if they think they are going to have ME pay for it, they can go to hell. Abort the slut of a mother. I'll pay for that.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Setting aside the point of the thread, which was the question of whether public money should be funding abortions at Planned Parenthood, IMO, I'd like to make the point that abortion is not the solution to the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is unwanted pregnancies. Abortion is an attempt to deal with that problem but does absolutely nothing to solve it. IMO, most of the energy should be going into reducing unwanted pregnancies.

This is one of the problems of our society.

We eat too much cake, cookies, candy, snacks and fast food. We drink too much soda, beer, juices, and shakes. We get obese and have all sorts of health problems. Our solution is more and better medications for controlling heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes etc...

No dumb asses.

The solution is not getting obese.

The idea is to identify the core problem and fix it the best you can.

The idea is not to find band-aid solutions that allow you to continue behaving like an irresponsible idiot.

OK.

How do you propose to keep "unwanted" pregnancies from happening?

It isn't like a woman wakes up one day and.... "oh crap" I'm pregnant.

Is a chastity belt on your list of solutions?

[johnhannibalsmith]

God, I sound like a feminasty (c-Boxcat) snowflake, but it is kind of amusing how the five pages of basically abortion debate and there isn't a single penis involved in any of the problems discussed.

[davew]

If there were no more abortions, planned parenthood would be out of business so from their point of view, unwanted pregnancies are a good thing. Perhaps if there is any hope of outlawing abortions, PP needs to go first.

That can't be true, all of the dems swear Planned Parenthood does so much for women health.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

God, I sound like a feminasty (c-Boxcat) snowflake, but it is kind of amusing how the five pages of basically abortion debate and there isn't a single penis involved in any of the problems discussed.

I believe you just inserted one. :p

[chadk66]

OK.

How do you propose to keep "unwanted" pregnancies from happening?

It isn't like a woman wakes up one day and.... "oh crap" I'm pregnant.

Is a chastity belt on your list of solutions?you install the implant as has been mentioned. now we just need to find a way to temporarily end sperm distribution in men that are on the welfare doles too. double protection.

[Tom]

It isn't like a woman wakes up one day and.... "oh crap" I'm pregnant.

For many it, is exactly like that.

[FantasticDan]

God, I sound like a feminasty (c-Boxcat) snowflake, but it is kind of amusing how the five pages of basically abortion debate and there isn't a single penis involved in any of the problems discussed.Don't worry, the only penises that matter are the ones making the decisions on women's health care :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

http://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/58d48f42110a9827ef31386b/3:2/w_757/MAIN.jpg

[Clocker]

Don't worry, the only penises that matter are the ones making the decisions on women's health care :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:



As our past president and renowned constitutional scholar once whined, the Constitution is a negative bill of rights. It says what the government can't do to you. It doesn't say what the government has to do for you.

Current law says women can have an abortion. It also says that the federal government won't pay for it. That's leaving the decision entirely up to the women.

[Tom]

Don't worry, the only penises that matter are the ones making the decisions on women's health care

More fake news, Dan.
The law of the land is that women are free to murder their babies.

No one is stopping them.

You lefites think having a freedom means it should be free. If YOU are so worried, how about YOU foot eh bills yourself?

What a crock of BS you lefties spew.

Oh, btw way, if you guys put up more ridiculously stupid candidates like Hillary, it will be MEN making those decisions for a long time to come. Do not blame us for YOUR garbage candidates losing.:pound::pound::pound::pound:

[boxcar]

Bravo!! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Yup, spoken by CH as a true blue moral relativist. Cold-blooded, premeditated murder of an innocent human fetus is only wrong for him. And then we wonder why our society and our culture has been swirling around in a cesspool in an ever-descending spiral for the last several decades.

[boxcar]

you install the implant as has been mentioned. now we just need to find a way to temporarily end sperm distribution in men that are on the welfare doles too. double protection.

Mandatory eunuchism. It is actually a time-tested, proven method.

[chadk66]

Mandatory eunuchism. It is actually a time-tested, proven method.let's get er done then

[boxcar]

let's get er done then

And it's something I could even support with my tax dollars to help rid this land of the abominable abortion blight. Far better druggies be held responsible for their actions and suffer inconveniences -- which compared to the murder of the unborn pale by comparison.

[chadk66]

And it's something I could even support with my tax dollars to help rid this land of the abominable abortion blight. Far better druggies be held responsible for their actions and suffer inconveniences -- which compared to the murder of the unborn pale by comparison.I think a federal law that requires individuals that receive welfare to submit to the implant, sperm halting and drug testing. one trip to the clinic and get it all done. you know how damn fast that would straighten this country out. it would be insane.

[Show Me the Wire]

5 pioneer feminists against abortion:

1. Elizabeth Stanton was clear that she considered abortion to be a form of infanticide, and therefore rejected it totally. She also blamed men for abortion, saying that it was a symptom of the oppression of women (rather than a sign of their empowerment!),

2. Susan B. Anthony viewed abortion as an evil consequence of the oppression of women by men, and not a tool of their empowerment. In her famous 1875 speech “Social Purity,” she denounces abortion alongside adultery, rape, and infanticide as examples of symptoms of the mistreatment of women by men,

3. Mary Wollstonecraft viewed abortion as a symptom of the mistreatment of women by men. In Vindication of the Rights of Women, she wrote that a lack of education for women means they “have not sufficient strength to discharge the first duty of a mother” and “either destroy the embryo in the womb, or cast it off when born. Nature in everything demands respect … men ought to maintain the women they have seduced."

4. Sarah F. Norton “child murder” and “infant butchery,” longing for the day when “the right of the unborn to be born will not be denied or interfered with” and

5. Dr. Elizabeth Blackwell, the first woman graduate of an American medical school. “The gross perversion and destruction of motherhood by the abortionist filled me with indignation, and awakened active antagonism. That the honorable term “female physician” should be exclusively applied to those women who carried on this shocking trade seemed to me a horror. It was an utter degradation of what might and should become a noble position for women…I finally determined to do what I could do “to redeem the hells,” and especially the one form of hell thus forced upon my notice.”

These early feminists viewed mistreatment of women by men the reason for the existence of abortion, as abortion benefited men to the detriment of women.

[FantasticDan]

More fake news, Dan.
The law of the land is that women are free to murder their babies.
I was referring to other aspects of women's health care.. Trumpcare made concessions to the Freedom Caucus that would have eliminated the essential care requirement, which covered things like maternity care, pre-existing conditions, and mental health care. All this in addition to the slashing of Medicaid funds.

[boxcar]

5 pioneer feminists against abortion:

1. Elizabeth Stanton was clear that she considered abortion to be a form of infanticide, and therefore rejected it totally. She also blamed men for abortion, saying that it was a symptom of the oppression of women (rather than a sign of their empowerment!),

2. Susan B. Anthony viewed abortion as an evil consequence of the oppression of women by men, and not a tool of their empowerment. In her famous 1875 speech “Social Purity,” she denounces abortion alongside adultery, rape, and infanticide as examples of symptoms of the mistreatment of women by men,

3. Mary Wollstonecraft viewed abortion as a symptom of the mistreatment of women by men. In Vindication of the Rights of Women, she wrote that a lack of education for women means they “have not sufficient strength to discharge the first duty of a mother” and “either destroy the embryo in the womb, or cast it off when born. Nature in everything demands respect … men ought to maintain the women they have seduced."

4. Sarah F. Norton “child murder” and “infant butchery,” longing for the day when “the right of the unborn to be born will not be denied or interfered with” and

5. Dr. Elizabeth Blackwell, the first woman graduate of an American medical school. “The gross perversion and destruction of motherhood by the abortionist filled me with indignation, and awakened active antagonism. That the honorable term “female physician” should be exclusively applied to those women who carried on this shocking trade seemed to me a horror. It was an utter degradation of what might and should become a noble position for women…I finally determined to do what I could do “to redeem the hells,” and especially the one form of hell thus forced upon my notice.”

These early feminists viewed mistreatment of women by men the reason for the existence of abortion, as abortion benefited men to the detriment of women.

I think there's much more to this than meets most eyes, Mr. ShowMe. How convenient that all those "pioneer feminists" naively absolve all women of any blame for murders-within-the-womb -- as though there's no such thing in this fallen world as a seductress -- only male seducers. However, from a biblical perspective, I would say that in large part we are witnessing a fulfillment of an aspect to Eve's curse -- which was actually two-fold, yet most people don't understand what is really being said in Gen 3:16b. This could make for a very interesting discussion over on the Religion thread. :)

[Clocker]

a very interesting discussion over on the Religion thread. :)

Winner, winner, chicken dinner: Oxymoron of the Year. :pound:

[boxcar]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner: Oxymoron of the Year. :pound:

Well, I don't recall inviting you over for that discussion. I'd say for good reason, wouldn't you?

[Clocker]

Well, I don't recall inviting you over for that discussion.

I didn't realize it was by invitation only! :p

[boxcar]

I didn't realize it was by invitation only! :p

I figured only another professing Christian would be interested, which is why my remarks were made to ShowMe.

[MikeH]

More fake news, Dan.
The law of the land is that women are free to murder their babies.

No one is stopping them.

I totally agree.

[chadk66]

I was referring to other aspects of women's health care.. Trumpcare made concessions to the Freedom Caucus that would have eliminated the essential care requirement, which covered things like maternity care, pre-existing conditions, and mental health care. All this in addition to the slashing of Medicaid funds.So what does Planned Parenthood provide women that Obamacare doesn't?

[Fager Fan]

Truer words have never been typed here.

The Pro-Life rail and rail but you don't see them becoming involved in foster care, or considering adoption of even a preschool or elementary age child. Sure, maybe there would be some interest in newborns.

Still, good luck little ones. :(

You know this how? I personally know conservatives that have fostered many kids, and have also adopted. Even then, I make no generalization that liberals don't foster or adopt.

Go google the studies that show conservatives and the religious are the most charitable. Liberals are more often charitable with other people's money, which makes them not charitable at all.

[Fager Fan]

Huge problem.

My prescription would be to stop normalizing having kids out of wedlock as we have done in recent decades, start promoting charitable contributions heavily, start promoting good foster care, and allocate significant funds to care for unwanted babies until we change the culture and reduce the problem (which could be a very very very long time given all the damage we have done).

In my idealistically delusional libertarian la la land (the difference being that I know my version is la la land as opposed to liberals who are in la la land now but don't know it) the culture would be changed, the problem would be reduced, and successful people would be so generous there would be no need for a government stop gap.

There is no lack of homes for those who need adoption. If you investigate the issue, you'll find that all or most all who need adoption or fostering are older kids with significant physical or mental issues. Understandably these are harder to place though of course we'd all hope that they do find their forever home with a loving family who is financially and mentally able to help them with their issues.

[Fager Fan]

I applaud you!! But, I'm sorry, if this were totally not true, if this was the norm, of many pro--lifers, we would not have a problem, state to state, county to county, nationwide of foster care programs in need.

It seems that the aging process of couples who've been foster parents for years is a factor. Younger couples are not as interested. To be honest, prolife or prochoice, it doesn't matter. Every child deserves a home.

This is one opinion piece.

https://chronicleofsocialchange.org/child-welfare-2/kids-fewer-homes/20504

And how did you determine that those who don't want to foster are all conservative or even a majority conservative?

Another topic are the bad fosters out there, the ones who do it for the money. I'm guessing most of those aren't conservative.

[Fager Fan]

5 pioneer feminists against abortion:

1. Elizabeth Stanton was clear that she considered abortion to be a form of infanticide, and therefore rejected it totally. She also blamed men for abortion, saying that it was a symptom of the oppression of women (rather than a sign of their empowerment!),

2. Susan B. Anthony viewed abortion as an evil consequence of the oppression of women by men, and not a tool of their empowerment. In her famous 1875 speech “Social Purity,” she denounces abortion alongside adultery, rape, and infanticide as examples of symptoms of the mistreatment of women by men,

3. Mary Wollstonecraft viewed abortion as a symptom of the mistreatment of women by men. In Vindication of the Rights of Women, she wrote that a lack of education for women means they “have not sufficient strength to discharge the first duty of a mother” and “either destroy the embryo in the womb, or cast it off when born. Nature in everything demands respect … men ought to maintain the women they have seduced."

4. Sarah F. Norton “child murder” and “infant butchery,” longing for the day when “the right of the unborn to be born will not be denied or interfered with” and

5. Dr. Elizabeth Blackwell, the first woman graduate of an American medical school. “The gross perversion and destruction of motherhood by the abortionist filled me with indignation, and awakened active antagonism. That the honorable term “female physician” should be exclusively applied to those women who carried on this shocking trade seemed to me a horror. It was an utter degradation of what might and should become a noble position for women…I finally determined to do what I could do “to redeem the hells,” and especially the one form of hell thus forced upon my notice.”

These early feminists viewed mistreatment of women by men the reason for the existence of abortion, as abortion benefited men to the detriment of women.

Many liberals don't even know that their beloved Planned Parenthood was created to exterminate blacks. How many conservative institutions who were created with that intent would've survived the appropriate onslaught of disgust? But PP skates clear.

[FantasticDan]

Many liberals don't even know that their beloved Planned Parenthood was created to exterminate blacks. How many conservative institutions who were created with that intent would've survived the appropriate onslaught of disgust? But PP skates clear.
http://www.politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2015/oct/05/ben-carson/did-margaret-sanger-believe-african-americans-shou/

...no relation to historical reality

[Fager Fan]

Try some more research instead of the one you cherry picked.

http://liveactionnews.org/7-shocking-quotes-by-planned-parenthoods-founder/

The list is long, so I will leave it in your capable hands to find them all.

This woman was despicable. Liberals don't forgive far less transgressions than those of Sanger, so it's amazing that they defend anything associated with her.

[FantasticDan]

Try some more research instead of the one you cherry picked.

http://liveactionnews.org/7-shocking-quotes-by-planned-parenthoods-founder/

:rolleyes:

https://rewire.news/article/2015/08/20/false-narratives-margaret-sanger-used-shame-black-women/

[Fager Fan]

Bad attempt in that opinion piece. Try again. I do understand that liberals are doing their best to defend Sanger because they have to defend PP, but sorry, her quotes are her quotes and no whitewash and spin can change them.

[thaskalos]

:rolleyes:

https://rewire.news/article/2015/08/20/false-narratives-margaret-sanger-used-shame-black-women/

Why do you persist in trying to confuse Fager Fan with the facts? Can't you just let him live in his fantasies?

[PaceAdvantage]

Truer words have never been typed here.

The Pro-Life rail and rail but you don't see them becoming involved in foster care, or considering adoption of even a preschool or elementary age child. Sure, maybe there would be some interest in newborns.

Still, good luck little ones. :(No, let's just abort them instead.

And they call Trump Hitler?

The origins of Planned Parenthood are a page right out of the "final solution" playbook, when you get right down to it.

But we won't talk about that.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why should we be a "God fearing/loving Nation"?

Religious belief should be a PERSONAL choice...not a national mandate.God has nothing to do with this.

This is a moral choice. Do we continue to push the narrative that abortions should be available on demand for any reason? Do we continue to normalize abortion by going to the greatest lengths to PROTECT the procedure and make sure it is allowed at ANY LEGAL POINT, even when that point crosses the line of most rational human beings (ie. allowing abortions in the third trimester....really man?)

"Currently, federal law makes it legal to abort babies into the ninth month of pregnancy.

While some states have restrictions on abortion, all states permit abortion into the ninth month for certain exceptions— and eight states allow abortion until birth for any reason (Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington State)."

I can't even believe the above is true...although this was one of the first links I read when I googled it:

http://liveactionnews.org/there-is-no-federal-law-protecting-the-preborn-from-abortion-at-any-time/

Who the hell knows what liveactionnews is...but I have little problem believing it knowing how rabid pro-abortion people are at protecting the right of abortion on demand at almost any point.

[PaceAdvantage]

For the record, I am NOT anti-abortion.

I am anti-the obsession to normalize abortion to the point where it should be looked upon as equal to a mere tooth extraction, which is exactly what the most rabid pro-abortion people want to see...they want to see abortion looked upon as some wonderful procedure used to enhance life and remove pain, like a tooth extraction.

They are so hell-bent on preserving everything and anything to do with abortion, that they don't look upon abortion beyond week 20 as abhorrent and something that should only be reserved for the most extreme of cases. No, they want that to remain on the table for all as well, because they feel that ANY federal restriction on abortion is akin to the eventual total repeal of Roe v. Wade.

In other words, these types of people are a special brand of crazy.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Why should we be a "God fearing/loving Nation"?

Religious belief should be a PERSONAL choice...not a national mandate.

And yet in spite of all the whining by the left, abortion is the law of the land and had been for decades. All some of ask that you not force US to finance what we consider to be your barbaric morality. Your personal choices are not at all threatened, but ours who respect life, are.

[NJ Stinks]

For the record, I am NOT anti-abortion.

I am anti-the obsession to normalize abortion to the point where it should be looked upon as equal to a mere tooth extraction, which is exactly what the most rabid pro-abortion people want to see...they want to see abortion looked upon as some wonderful procedure used to enhance life and remove pain, like a tooth extraction.

They are so hell-bent on preserving everything and anything to do with abortion, that they don't look upon abortion beyond week 20 as abhorrent and something that should only be reserved for the most extreme of cases. No, they want that to remain on the table for all as well, because they feel that ANY federal restriction on abortion is akin to the eventual total repeal of Roe v. Wade.

In other words, these types of people are a special brand of crazy.

You could have stopped there but you couldn't help yourself. :rolleyes:

Nobody WANTS everybody and anybody to get an abortion. We hope the person(s) involved make the right CHOICE for them.

[thaskalos]

For the record, I am NOT anti-abortion.

I am anti-the obsession to normalize abortion to the point where it should be looked upon as equal to a mere tooth extraction, which is exactly what the most rabid pro-abortion people want to see...they want to see abortion looked upon as some wonderful procedure used to enhance life and remove pain, like a tooth extraction.

They are so hell-bent on preserving everything and anything to do with abortion, that they don't look upon abortion beyond week 20 as abhorrent and something that should only be reserved for the most extreme of cases. No, they want that to remain on the table for all as well, because they feel that ANY federal restriction on abortion is akin to the eventual total repeal of Roe v. Wade.

In other words, these types of people are a special brand of crazy.

You are not "anti-abortion"...and I am not "pro-abortion". I too consider it ludicrous that a pregnancy could be aborted in its 9th month...especially when, in the tragic event of the murder of a 9-month pregnant woman...the killer is accused of killing TWO people. I mean...if an unborn fetus has the "right" of being considered a victim in a homicide involving the mother...shouldn't the fetus also have the "right" of birth?

But...what happens when the mother is intent on not going through with the pregnancy? Does the state FORCE her to give birth...and then confiscate the baby when its born? The Republicans are all lining up against the abortions...but they are also against the widespread distribution of food stamps. How is THAT supposed to work out?

Yes...as a "personal choice"...I cannot agree with the government's stance on abortion. The "humanity" in me cries out that the unborn fetus is a "human being in-the-making"...and it deserves protection. But, IMO, it also deserves to be fed and taken care of...once it's been given birth. And no one is willing to address the SECOND part of this equation.

As it stands right now...the pro-lifers only care for the unborn children until they are born...just to make a "point". And...as soon as the babies are born...no one cares anymore whether the unwanted babies live or die. Is that not a "special brand of crazy"?

[johnhannibalsmith]

If you have people that on the matter of "choice" when it comes to abortion, would eliminate the concept of choice altogether, you will always have the counterbalance that will believe in absolute choice.

[chadk66]

I notice the lefties have avoided the discussion of mandatory birth control for these welfare recipients :confused:

[Fager Fan]

Why do you persist in trying to confuse Fager Fan with the facts? Can't you just let him live in his fantasies?

I've done plenty of reading prior to this thread on Sanger. I know what she wrote and said. Liberals are desperate to try to defend her. They would be condemning her if she stood for a conservative cause. That's why I love to talk about her to liberals on the subject. They can't stand it.

[Fager Fan]

You could have stopped there but you couldn't help yourself. :rolleyes:

Nobody WANTS everybody and anybody to get an abortion. We hope the person(s) involved make the right CHOICE for them.

Killing their 5yo may be the best choice for them. Killing their spouse's lover might be the best choice for some. Killing your boss may be a good choice.

Abortion is terminating a life. It shouldn't be left up to whatever choice is best for the potential killer any more than we leave the above killings up to the killer's choice.

[Fager Fan]

You are not "anti-abortion"...and I am not "pro-abortion". I too consider it ludicrous that a pregnancy could be aborted in its 9th month...especially when, in the tragic event of the murder of a 9-month pregnant woman...the killer is accused of killing TWO people. I mean...if an unborn fetus has the "right" of being considered a victim in a homicide involving the mother...shouldn't the fetus also have the "right" of birth?

But...what happens when the mother is intent on not going through with the pregnancy? Does the state FORCE her to give birth...and then confiscate the baby when its born? The Republicans are all lining up against the abortions...but they are also against the widespread distribution of food stamps. How is THAT supposed to work out?

Yes...as a "personal choice"...I cannot agree with the government's stance on abortion. The "humanity" in me cries out that the unborn fetus is a "human being in-the-making"...and it deserves protection. But, IMO, it also deserves to be fed and taken care of...once it's been given birth. And no one is willing to address the SECOND part of this equation.

As it stands right now...the pro-lifers only care for the unborn children until they are born...just to make a "point". And...as soon as the babies are born...no one cares anymore whether the unwanted babies live or die. Is that not a "special brand of crazy"?

Total nonsense. Nothing more needs to be said.

[thaskalos]

Total nonsense. Nothing more needs to be said.

I would worry, if you AGREED with me.

[barahona44]

I notice the lefties have avoided the discussion of mandatory birth control for these welfare recipients :confused:

I'm not into the government dictating to people who should and shouldn't have children.

[chadk66]

I'm not into the government dictating to people who should and shouldn't have children.when my tax dollars are being used for their survival I am.

[CincyHorseplayer]

For the record, I am NOT anti-abortion.

I am anti-the obsession to normalize abortion to the point where it should be looked upon as equal to a mere tooth extraction, which is exactly what the most rabid pro-abortion people want to see...they want to see abortion looked upon as some wonderful procedure used to enhance life and remove pain, like a tooth extraction.

They are so hell-bent on preserving everything and anything to do with abortion, that they don't look upon abortion beyond week 20 as abhorrent and something that should only be reserved for the most extreme of cases. No, they want that to remain on the table for all as well, because they feel that ANY federal restriction on abortion is akin to the eventual total repeal of Roe v. Wade.

In other words, these types of people are a special brand of crazy.

Well said.

[riskman]

when my tax dollars are being used for their survival I am.

You are opposed that your tax dollars are used to help needy adults and children who are citizens here in this country? Do I have this right?
Food and shelter and medical assistance is off the table? To me that is survival at the very basic level that we should help as humans. Hope I misunderstood you which I do on a regular basis.

[chadk66]

You are opposed that your tax dollars are used to help needy adults and children who are citizens here in this country? Do I have this right?
Food and shelter and medical assistance is off the table? To me that is survival at the very basic level that we should help as humans. Hope I misunderstood you which I do on a regular basis.not at all. I'm not willing to pay for more of their children because they can't keep their clothes on while we're giving them a free ride. That way we can continue to help them and won't have to worry about continued growth of welfare recipients. as it is now we're caught in a death spiral because they reproduce like flies. No reason for that to happen in today's society when they are living off the public dole. why would liberals want more people being born into poverty? Votes would be the only answer to that. ;)

[johnhannibalsmith]

... why would liberals want more people being born into poverty? Votes would be the only answer to that. ;)

Is this still the abortion thread?

[chadk66]

Is this still the abortion thread?I think so

[Tom]

I'm not into the government dictating to people who should and shouldn't have children.

But you're ok with them telling us who has to pay for them?

[Fager Fan]

I'm going to agree with Barahona on this one. There is something quite uncomfortable about government forcing of birth control or similar unless the person has committed a sex crime. I don't think people should have kids they can't afford, but we should solve the problem in another way, not this way.

I don't even like the drug tests for welfare recipients. I don't really see how or why we're tying the two together. Instead, I think we should require welfare recipients to work for their welfare, provided they are of sound mind and body and can work. I'd put a fair dollar amount on the welfare they're receiving (some may not be in the form of cash), and then they have to volunteer for non-profits, government positions, or interning, the number of hours to equal them working for minimum wage. If there is illness or a valid reason why the person can't work, then they can be excused for that time period by their case worker. If people are having to work for their welfare, they'll want to move up from the minimum wage and perhaps also to a job they like better by finding a real paying job.

[chadk66]

I'm going to agree with Barahona on this one. There is something quite uncomfortable about government forcing of birth control or similar unless the person has committed a sex crime. I don't think people should have kids they can't afford, but we should solve the problem in another way, not this way.

I don't even like the drug tests for welfare recipients. I don't really see how or why we're tying the two together. Instead, I think we should require welfare recipients to work for their welfare, provided they are of sound mind and body and can work. I'd put a fair dollar amount on the welfare they're receiving (some may not be in the form of cash), and then they have to volunteer for non-profits, government positions, or interning, the number of hours to equal them working for minimum wage. If there is illness or a valid reason why the person can't work, then they can be excused for that time period by their case worker. If people are having to work for their welfare, they'll want to move up from the minimum wage and perhaps also to a job they like better by finding a real paying job.but they don't have to take the birth control. they just trade their welfare for not having to do that.

[Fager Fan]

but they don't have to take the birth control. they just trade their welfare for not having to do that.

What? Are you suggesting that there's something wrong with someone who is able to work do so in exchange for money and goods?

[davew]

What? Are you suggesting that there's something wrong with someone who is able to work do so in exchange for money and goods?

I think he is saying that there were/are too many people collecting welfare and popping babies for even bigger checks from the government. Their only work being raising their kids and gestating more kids...

His suggestion being that while they are getting this money from the government for not working at a job, they are not having even more kids ... hence some sort of long term birth control because many still have enough money and time for drugs and sex.

[chadk66]

I think he is saying that there were/are too many people collecting welfare and popping babies for even bigger checks from the government. Their only work being raising their kids and gestating more kids...

His suggestion being that while they are getting this money from the government for not working at a job, they are not having even more kids ... hence some sort of long term birth control because many still have enough money and time for drugs and sex.exactly. There are many that hold down a job and still honestly need welfare while they are trying to get themselves out of the hole. These people don't concern me. It's the baby factories to increase welfare checks that concern me. Those kids become drug dealers/killers/etc. We don't need that. If they have no job and want welfare they take the implant or the stopping of their sperms life to receive those benefits. When they become employed steadily for a year they can reproduce. It's actually an extremely benign program. And it would be amazing how it would clean up this country over the next twenty plus years.

[Fager Fan]

exactly. There are many that hold down a job and still honestly need welfare while they are trying to get themselves out of the hole. These people don't concern me. It's the baby factories to increase welfare checks that concern me. Those kids become drug dealers/killers/etc. We don't need that. If they have no job and want welfare they take the implant or the stopping of their sperms life to receive those benefits. When they become employed steadily for a year they can reproduce. It's actually an extremely benign program. And it would be amazing how it would clean up this country over the next twenty plus years.

You don't see the problem in demanding birth control of women to get welfare but men having no such requirement to get their welfare?

[chadk66]

You don't see the problem in demanding birth control of women to get welfare but men having no such requirement to get their welfare?read my post. I said stopping the sperm too. Both need to be required to do it.

[Fager Fan]

read my post. I said stopping the sperm too. Both need to be required to do it.

The last I heard, that's not a real possibility unless you're suggesting vasectomies.

[chadk66]

The last I heard, that's not a real possibility unless you're suggesting vasectomies.nope. somebody pointed out above there are things available to work on men too. but in reality it wouldn't matter. If you remove the "birther" you remove the end product without anything being done to the fertilizer. End result is the same. And that's all that matters anyway.

[Fager Fan]

nope. somebody pointed out above there are things available to work on men too. but in reality it wouldn't matter. If you remove the "birther" you remove the end product without anything being done to the fertilizer. End result is the same. And that's all that matters anyway.

I'm pretty sure there's no birth control for men similar to women. Don't forget that outside of a permanent physical procedure, the proof of meeting any birth control standard would be non-tamper proof.

And it most certainly does matter. You can't require something of only one sex in order to get gov welfare. It'd lose in any court, and would lose 9-0 in the Supreme Court, and rightly so.

Not the mention how government control of a person's body, particularly the poor, would be seen as unacceptable to all but a few. It would make us comparable to China. It'll fail in public perception and in the courts.

So come up with another idea because this one has exactly zero chance of becoming reality.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I fully support abortion till a person is 18 years old.

Ma or Pa don't like or want him/her? So be it.

Hasn't shown a single skill of any aptitude? Later tater. '

The biggest problem our planet will face isn't global warming, but over-population.

[davew]

I'm pretty sure there's no birth control for men similar to women. Don't forget that outside of a permanent physical procedure, the proof of meeting any birth control standard would be non-tamper proof.

And it most certainly does matter. You can't require something of only one sex in order to get gov welfare. It'd lose in any court, and would lose 9-0 in the Supreme Court, and rightly so.

Not the mention how government control of a person's body, particularly the poor, would be seen as unacceptable to all but a few. It would make us comparable to China. It'll fail in public perception and in the courts.

So come up with another idea because this one has exactly zero chance of becoming reality.

I knew a guy doing research with 'gossypol' as a male long term contraception. I just checked and it looks like for 20% of the people it is not reversible. They have been / are using it in China...

[chadk66]

I'm pretty sure there's no birth control for men similar to women. Don't forget that outside of a permanent physical procedure, the proof of meeting any birth control standard would be non-tamper proof.

And it most certainly does matter. You can't require something of only one sex in order to get gov welfare. It'd lose in any court, and would lose 9-0 in the Supreme Court, and rightly so.

Not the mention how government control of a person's body, particularly the poor, would be seen as unacceptable to all but a few. It would make us comparable to China. It'll fail in public perception and in the courts.

So come up with another idea because this one has exactly zero chance of becoming reality.just like driving, welfare isn't a right. if you want it you do what the man tells you your going to do.

[chadk66]

I knew a guy doing research with 'gossypol' as a male long term contraception. I just checked and it looks like for 20% of the people it is not reversible. They have been / are using it in China...all they need is a daily dose of salt peter. mission accomplished. ;)

[Fager Fan]

just like driving, welfare isn't a right. if you want it you do what the man tells you your going to do.

You either don't get it or refuse to get it. Either way, it's like talking to a concrete block. It's unconstitutional and discriminatory and isn't going to happen.

[Fager Fan]

just like driving, welfare isn't a right. if you want it you do what the man tells you your going to do.

Brilliant. We don't tell women they aren't allowed to drive a car here. That's for some other countries, just like your idea.

[chadk66]

You either don't get it or refuse to get it. Either way, it's like talking to a concrete block. It's unconstitutional and discriminatory and isn't going to happen.easy work around, just give the males a placebo and tell them it is temporary sterilization lol. :pound:

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/04/13/trump-signs-bill-allowing-states-defund-planned-parenthood/

Now up to States

Trump signs bill

[chadk66]

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/04/13/trump-signs-bill-allowing-states-defund-planned-parenthood/

Now up to States

Trump signs bill:ThmbUp:

[davew]

Planned Parenthood hired Fusion GPS to disprove hidden videos - probably cheaper paying snopes, but maybe they did that as well

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/2e82c442-4167-361b-9a5e-216407f11d09/ss_planned-parenthood-hired.html


there seems to be big money in writing propaganda fiction

[davew]

Some people pushing for Planned Parenthood to get charged with trafficking of body parts.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-11-18-planned-parenthood-could-face-federal-charges-for-trafficking-baby-body-parts.html

[boxcar]

Some people pushing for Planned Parenthood to get charged with trafficking of body parts.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-11-18-planned-parenthood-could-face-federal-charges-for-trafficking-baby-body-parts.html

Trump needs to fire Sessions and get someone in the position who is motivated and has a clue. This move would be another great Christmas gift to Americans.

[fast4522]

Boxcar you can not admit to being close to the base, from all your posts most would consider you as a tag along fellow. Don't automatically get defensive and instead follow with me for a bit. For starters the current law is a bit more complex that you or I would like to admit, and just how much is the President playing the press. I would suggest that the President has a mastery of the press and they are wearing bitch slippers, and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions is not out of sync with the President because things are not as they appear. I would further suggest that you and I do not have all the documents the Executive and Attorney General offices possess. We have our wants to what we expect, I can only tell you this administration by all indications will not be taking prisoners. As onlookers we can only view what plays out, right?

[boxcar]

Boxcar you can not admit to being close to the base, from all your posts most would consider you as a tag along fellow. Don't automatically get defensive and instead follow with me for a bit. For starters the current law is a bit more complex that you or I would like to admit, and just how much is the President playing the press. I would suggest that the President has a mastery of the press and they are wearing bitch slippers, and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions is not out of sync with the President because things are not as they appear. I would further suggest that you and I do not have all the documents the Executive and Attorney General offices possess. We have our wants to what we expect, I can only tell you this administration by all indications will not be taking prisoners. As onlookers we can only view what plays out, right?

The only "base" I'm close to is Freedom Base.

Sessions has been warming a seat in the AG's office now for nearly a year, and of what judicial accomplishments can he boast? (Should we praise him for routinely enforcing existing immigration laws that are on the books?) Actions speak louder than words. Draining the Swamp necessarily entails a proactive Justice Department that isn't scared to prosecute criminal behavior. I would settle for an AG half as aggressive and proactive as Mueller & co., and Sessions doesn't even come close to that modest benchmark. :coffee:

[fast4522]

If our current AG restores equal protection under the law he will be doing more than the office did during the Obama administration did. We can be critics all we want but without documents that are often under seal that is all we are right?

[boxcar]

If our current AG restores equal protection under the law he will be doing more than the office did during the Obama administration did. We can be critics all we want but without documents that are often under seal that is all we are right?

Funny how all the AGs under the Obama Administration knew how to wield the big stick of the Justice Dept. to get their crap done, yet Sessions appears to only know how to walk softly.

[davew]

Funny how all the AGs under the Obama Administration knew how to wield the big stick of the Justice Dept. to get their crap done, yet Sessions appears to only know how to walk softly.

Maybe Sessions is following the constitution and law, not just a racist interpretation?

[woodtoo]

Funny how all the AGs under the Obama Administration knew how to wield the big stick of the Justice Dept. to get their crap done, yet Sessions appears to only know how to walk softly.

You need to read the law and order statement issued by President Trump on Dec.21 ;Text of a letter from the President to the Congress of the United States

Pursuant to the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.
The order blocks the property and interests of property of foreign persons listed in the Annex to the order. Basically seizing property and banking of named individuals

I can't find that list right now but have seen it and it is a long list of many foreigners accused of human trafficking and sex trade.

the AG has been charging sex crimes at a record rate over 1500 at this time.

It is and will be known as the "Big Ugly."

Another big clue is the number of CEO's who have "stepped down" from
Sept.27 2017 to Nov. 30 2017 many big CEO's the number is almost 30.
For corruption or corruption to be named later.

[boxcar]

You need to read the law and order statement issued by President Trump on Dec.21 ;Text of a letter from the President to the Congress of the United States

Pursuant to the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.
The order blocks the property and interests of property of foreign persons listed in the Annex to the order. Basically seizing property and banking of named individuals

I can't find that list right now but have seen it and it is a long list of many foreigners accused of human trafficking and sex trade.

the AG has been charging sex crimes at a record rate over 1500 at this time.

It is and will be known as the "Big Ugly."

Another big clue is the number of CEO's who have "stepped down" from
Sept.27 2017 to Nov. 30 2017 many big CEO's the number is almost 30.
For corruption or corruption to be named later.

Yeah, yeah...I hear ya. I just wish that the "Big Ugly" net would catch some brand name politicians and bureaucrats who live in the Beltway Swamp.

[chadk66]

I think by July 1st if shit hasn't hit the fan Sessions will be out.

[davew]

abortion queen Richards is stepping down amid federal investigations...

http://thefederalist.com/2018/01/24/cecile-richards-reportedly-leaving-planned-parenthood-amid-federal-investigation/

[chadk66]

abortion queen Richards is stepping down amid federal investigations...

http://thefederalist.com/2018/01/24/cecile-richards-reportedly-leaving-planned-parenthood-amid-federal-investigation/Trying to keep from going to prison no doubt.

[boxcar]

Trying to keep from going to prison no doubt.

I wonder if she'll be able top find work in Islamic nations, teaching Muslims that abortion is great, plus it serves the greater good of all mankind due to a rapidly overpopulating planet? She could be quite the capitalist entrepreneur and open up clinics across the Muslim world and name them "Allah Smiles on Abortions". :coffee:

[davew]

morning Joe says many younger generation oppose later term abortion because of science (ultrasound seeing baby movements...)

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2018/02/20/scarborough-acknowledges-younger-generation-opposes-abortion-because-of-advances-in-fetal-science-n2451764

[boxcar]

morning Joe says many younger generation oppose later term abortion because of science (ultrasound seeing baby movements...)

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/laurettabrown/2018/02/20/scarborough-acknowledges-younger-generation-opposes-abortion-because-of-advances-in-fetal-science-n2451764

How 'bout a simple DNA sample from the fetus? Would the results come back human or unknown blob?

[chadk66]

How 'bout a simple DNA sample from the fetus? Would the results come back human or unknown blob?Even the left knows they are human or they wouldn't push for manslaughter convictions of that fetus in DUI accidents, etc.

[boxcar]

Even the left knows they are human or they wouldn't push for manslaughter convictions of that fetus in DUI accidents, etc.

Yeah...kind of a double standard.

[horses4courses]

How 'bout a simple DNA sample from the fetus? Would the results come back human or unknown blob?

While you're at it, why don't you apply the same test
to some wasted male sperm? Wadda ya think, Willie?

[Tom]

If you don't know the difference between a fetus and a sperm, you need to go back to school an pay attention in sex education this time.

[horses4courses]

If you don't know the difference between a fetus and a sperm, you need to go back to school an pay attention in sex education this time.

The double standard is how you treat women here, chimp.

[Tom]

Not really. The DNA would tell you who the father is, too.
Funny you have a problem with a simple, safe, pain free DNA test but no problem with sucking a baby to pieces.

What if the fetus is a woman?

[horses4courses]

Not really


Yes really.
You are from the land of anti-choice.

[Tom]

Yes really.
You are from the land of anti-choice.

No, I am from the land of taking responsibility for the choices you make. Google that word, the R word. I am sure you have never used it before.

[horses4courses]

No, I am from the land of taking responsibility for the choices you make. Google that word, the R word. I am sure you have never used it before.

Well, then.
Since you suggested it, let's go back to sex ed.

Sperm and embryos.
2 persons of the opposite sex involved.
That's about as far as the "R word" goes, though.
At least where males are involved.

Women bear the greater share of the burden of "R" here.
Their bodies give them the right to make choices - up to a point.
Your way of thinking makes her solely responsible for the
outcome of the sex act. That's not the way it should be.

I don't approve of late term abortion. Limits should be set.
A mother's health is paramount - fetus rights do not
supersede hers, imo. Pregnancies from rape deserve
special consideration. Ignoring them is barbaric.
The "R" falls on the medical and legal professions here.

It would be nice if common sense could prevail when it comes to human life.
Difference in opinion tends to negate that.

[woodtoo]

An average of 1,300,000 babies are killed annually in the U.S. through surgical abortions.
Pharmacy experts estimate 14,000,000 babies are killed annually through chemical abortions.
These kids never had a chance to escape a school shooting.
Source; American Life League.

[PaceAdvantage]

That's one way to incorporate population control

[boxcar]

Not really. The DNA would tell you who the father is, too.
Funny you have a problem with a simple, safe, pain free DNA test but no problem with sucking a baby to pieces.

What if the fetus is a woman?

What if the fetus is a female minority? Double Whammy. :eek::eek:

[boxcar]

Yes really.
You are from the land of anti-choice.

When it came to ObamaCare, weren't you from that "land" also when it came to people having a choice over yjr health care of their bodies or even if they wanted coverage in the first place?

[Marshall Bennett]

The 500 million dollars planned parenthood receives each year could go a long way arming our schools. Try saving more of these kids.

[Tom]

The 500 million dollars planned parenthood receives each year could go a long way arming our schools. Try saving more of these kids.

Democrat would rather spend money killing babies than saving kids. Maybe we could get the mass shooters to go to abortion clinics instead.

Btw, just wondering, do abortion clinic have armed guards?

[NJ Stinks]

Democrat would rather spend money killing babies than saving kids. Maybe we could get the mass shooters to go to abortion clinics instead.

Btw, just wondering, do abortion clinic have armed guards?

That you might believe half the garbage you write is exhibit A for legal abortion. :rolleyes: