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dkithore
03-29-2017, 06:49 AM
What is the logic behind a fight with Feds to justify protecting illegals (criminal) and criminal illegals? That is , those who have committed more crimes. What are the benefits to a city? cheap labor? a vote (fradulent) or what?

Marshall Bennett
03-29-2017, 06:59 AM
Liberal ideology at work. Little logic in most of what they believe in.

pandy
03-29-2017, 11:27 AM
What is the logic behind a fight with Feds to justify protecting illegals (criminal) and criminal illegals? That is , those who have committed more crimes. What are the benefits to a city? cheap labor? a vote (fradulent) or what?

I could be wrong, but my guess is that many liberals are not on board with this nonsense. It's strictly political, mainly to try and protect the latino vote, although I doubt that it is very effective at that.

Track Collector
03-29-2017, 12:29 PM
IMO the motivation is clearly vote-related.

A major component of Liberal ideology is the support of "victims". The more victims we have, the more we need Liberals to take over our lives to do what "is best" for us.

Just think of how many votes the Dems will lose if we work to clean up and eliminate these Sanctuary Cities. ;)

JustRalph
03-29-2017, 01:50 PM
IMO the motivation is clearly vote-related.

A major component of Liberal ideology is the support of "victims". The more victims we have, the more we need Liberals to take over our lives to do what "is best" for us.

Just think of how many votes the Dems will lose if we work to clean up and eliminate these Sanctuary Cities. ;)


I could be wrong, but my guess is that many liberals are not on board with this nonsense. It's strictly political, mainly to try and protect the latino vote, although I doubt that it is very effective at that.

Close the thread........

This covers it! :ThmbUp:

chadk66
03-29-2017, 02:23 PM
all of the above. now you understand why liberalism is a mental disorder. you have to be extremely mentally disabled to think this is how to operate your liberal mecca. well now they can try and do it without federal dollars.

Marshall Bennett
03-29-2017, 05:36 PM
So many of their beliefs are off the rail its easier just to generalize. I have this theory (I think its mine) that many liberals don't really subscribe to many of their own policies. Instead they have them in place to aggravate, provoke, and belittle conservatives. The race card is a good example. While they use it to attack the right, if the truth were known they're bigger racist themselves.
They'll vote for a democratic candidate they despise, just to counter votes on the other side. While both sides do this, the left is far more guilty. The woman's march was all about attacking Trump, had little or nothing to do with women's rights. They don't mind bottoming out their own moral standards to generate disgust on the right. And yes you're correct in saying its a mental disorder. It truly is.

NJ Stinks
03-29-2017, 07:25 PM
What is the logic behind a fight with Feds to justify protecting illegals (criminal) and criminal illegals? That is , those who have committed more crimes. What are the benefits to a city? cheap labor? a vote (fradulent) or what?

It's takes about 5 seconds to google and learn. In fact, you could have looked it up yourself quicker than it took you to start this thread.

But it's probably more fun to this way. Especially if you want to learn zip. :rolleyes:

McSchell_Racing
03-29-2017, 09:40 PM
I don't get it!,Back in the 70's and 80's if I was here a bit longer then my visa,I trembled at the word Immigration!! And got my ass back to Canada.Now 20 yrs later,I obeyed the US laws to a T. My wife and I went thought the process of coming to the US and getting legal..We paid a hefty sum and it took a agonizing 4 1/2 years. How on earth can these people be protected when there are millions that have obeyed the laws..If they have sanctuary cities then each person who paid to come here should get a refund! This is a kick in the teeth to law abiding citizens.

davew
03-29-2017, 09:52 PM
It's takes about 5 seconds to google and learn. In fact, you could have looked it up yourself quicker than it took you to start this thread.

But it's probably more fun to this way. Especially if you want to learn zip. :rolleyes:

it took me a couple minutes but a found a left opinion from LA

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-allen-sanctuary-cities-20150917-story.html


I have to wonder how the left feels they can keep spending other peoples money and get stuff for nothing and expect the gravy train to continue.

OntheRail
03-29-2017, 10:07 PM
Loon Alert..

Dem lawmaker tips off illegals in MS-13 hotbed
'If there's a knock on the door and you don't know who it is, don't open the door'


A Democrat state lawmaker in Massachusetts has been caught tipping off illegals – many of whom are violent street gang members, child sex offenders and drug traffickers – to imminent Immigration and Customs Enforcement raids Tuesday, even telling criminal targets not to open their doors, to stay silent, to refuse to sign anything and to “fight back” with an attorney.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/dem-lawmaker-tips-off-illegals-to-imminent-ice-raids/

This Democrat loon need to be severed and prosecuted... :bang:

Marshall Bennett
03-29-2017, 10:13 PM
I don't get it!,Back in the 70's and 80's if I was here a bit longer then my visa,I trembled at the word Immigration!! And got my ass back to Canada.Now 20 yrs later,I obeyed the US laws to a T. My wife and I went thought the process of coming to the US and getting legal..We paid a hefty sum and it took a agonizing 4 1/2 years. How on earth can these people be protected when there are millions that have obeyed the laws..If they have sanctuary cities then each person who paid to come here should get a refund! This is a kick in the teeth to law abiding citizens.
Mostly its about classification and/or breed of human you are. The moral ground you walk means jack-shit to a liberal based sanctuary of any kind.

Marshall Bennett
03-29-2017, 10:19 PM
Loon Alert..

Dem lawmaker tips off illegals in MS-13 hotbed
'If there's a knock on the door and you don't know who it is, don't open the door'


A Democrat state lawmaker in Massachusetts has been caught tipping off illegals – many of whom are violent street gang members, child sex offenders and drug traffickers – to imminent Immigration and Customs Enforcement raids Tuesday, even telling criminal targets not to open their doors, to stay silent, to refuse to sign anything and to “fight back” with an attorney.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/dem-lawmaker-tips-off-illegals-to-imminent-ice-raids/

This Democrat loon need to be severed and prosecuted... :bang:
When you discover our Democrat federal judges even sympathize with the enemy abroad, should anything like this surprise anyone?

Tom
03-29-2017, 10:29 PM
I don't get it!,Back in the 70's and 80's if I was here a bit longer then my visa,I trembled at the word Immigration!! And got my ass back to Canada.Now 20 yrs later,I obeyed the US laws to a T. My wife and I went thought the process of coming to the US and getting legal..We paid a hefty sum and it took a agonizing 4 1/2 years. How on earth can these people be protected when there are millions that have obeyed the laws..If they have sanctuary cities then each person who paid to come here should get a refund! This is a kick in the teeth to law abiding citizens.

Good for you!
You are the exact type of person we NEED to come here.
In fact, you are much prefered to most of the ones who are here legally - by birth, but not by mind. :rolleyes:

Worthless people like Faucet-Face UpChcuk Schumer have clue on this subject.

LottaKash
03-29-2017, 10:30 PM
I say follow the "kash"... This is where it will lead to any of this...

How dare a person that is voted in, and then takes "an oath" to obey the laws of the Constitution, be it state or Fed, then turn their backs on those very same laws that were designed to protect us all, and then allow these thugs & gangsters to do mighty harm to our other fellow Americans, within this INSANE Framework.....

What is up with that....?? How lost we have become when it comes to the law...

Gangsters, is all I see here....simple, follow the kash..

Tom
03-29-2017, 10:53 PM
Rochester is a sanctuary city.
The Mayor, Lovely Warren says theses illegals make the city what it is today.

She is correct.
Rochester is a cesspool.

JustRalph
03-29-2017, 11:58 PM
I don't get it!,Back in the 70's and 80's if I was here a bit longer then my visa,I trembled at the word Immigration!! And got my ass back to Canada.Now 20 yrs later,I obeyed the US laws to a T. My wife and I went thought the process of coming to the US and getting legal..We paid a hefty sum and it took a agonizing 4 1/2 years. How on earth can these people be protected when there are millions that have obeyed the laws..If they have sanctuary cities then each person who paid to come here should get a refund! This is a kick in the teeth to law abiding citizens.

Stop making so much sense.


The Governor of Texas is frothing at the mouth and trying to get law passed to lock up sanctuary cities Mayors and whomever goes along with it. Including county sheriffs

dkithore
03-30-2017, 03:46 AM
It's takes about 5 seconds to google and learn. In fact, you could have looked it up yourself quicker than it took you to start this thread.

But it's probably more fun to this way. Especially if you want to learn zip. :rolleyes:
Stinks, you may be right about googling to learn things. I like to hear points of views from live bloggers. And there are quite a few I respect.

I have a great amount of suspicion about Google though i use the browser sometimes. That company took stand against the Temp. pause of Trump, for instance. And they will be the first in line to take Trump's tax cuts. Greed has a place in business but ultimate greed and lack of patriotism for the country in favor of few coins? No, IMO.

chadk66
03-30-2017, 10:32 AM
I actually think your going to see some city officials, politicians, etc. prosecuted. Wonder what they'll think when that starts.

Marshall Bennett
03-30-2017, 01:06 PM
Google news has to be the most anti-Trump news organization in existence. Even their entertainment, business, and sports often have stories bashing Trump and his family. I can't read any of it anymore. A bus load of angry hateful journalist that shouldn't be reporting news for anybody. :ThmbDown:

LottaKash
03-30-2017, 03:40 PM
I actually think your going to see some city officials, politicians, etc. prosecuted. Wonder what they'll think when that starts.


Again, just follow the Kash....It should get very interesting and Very hostile eventually..

Trying to get at the Gangsters from the inside out, now that is a tough process...Lotta "TOES"...

Clocker
03-30-2017, 04:06 PM
Progressives have problems with really hard stuff, like math. And the logic of cause and effect. :rolleyes:

Illegal immigrants in the United States make up approximately 3.5% of the nation’s entire population. According to data compiled from the U.S. Sentencing Commission for fiscal year 2015, illegal immigrants were responsible for 30.2 percent of convictions for kidnapping/hostage taking, 17.8 percent of convictions for drug trafficking, 11.6 percent of convictions for fraud, 10.4 percent of convictions for money laundering, 6.1 percent of convictions for assault, and 5.5 percent of convictions for murder. So much for the myth spread by the pro-illegal immigrant crowd that illegal immigrants commit serious crimes at a much lower rate than U.S.-born citizens. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266260/sanctuary-cities-choose-criminals-over-citizens-joseph-klein (http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/266260/sanctuary-cities-choose-criminals-over-citizens-joseph-klein)

mostpost
03-30-2017, 04:24 PM
Liberal ideology at work. Little logic in most of what they believe in.
There is a great deal of logic to it. Using data, not anecdotes. we find that incarceration rates among illegal immigrants is much lower than among native born Americans of a similar education level. We also find that in sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants are much more likely to report a crime, cooperate in a police investigation, send their kids to school and avail themselves of community services than they are in situations where they are fearful of deportation.

They are also more likely to find and keep a job. Which means they pay taxes. Which means they help to pay for those community services they avail themselves of.

On the other hand we have the conservative logic which says everyone but me is a freeloader and unworthy of serious consideration.

EasyGoer89
03-30-2017, 05:31 PM
What is the logic behind a fight with Feds to justify protecting illegals (criminal) and criminal illegals? That is , those who have committed more crimes. What are the benefits to a city? cheap labor? a vote (fradulent) or what?

Seriously, nobody really wants this but they want to 'get back' at Trump for winning a fair democratic election, they're willing to risk their families, their cities and their lives. It has nothing to do with being pro-whatever, it's just 'stick it to Trump' believe me, most people of any political affiliation want a safer hometown, sticking it to Trump is worth it to them.

Clocker
03-30-2017, 05:53 PM
Seriously, nobody really wants this but they want to 'get back' at Trump for winning a fair democratic election, they're willing to risk their families, their cities and their lives. It has nothing to do with being pro-whatever, it's just 'stick it to Trump' believe me

Not so. Trump and Sessions are bringing it to greater attention, but this has been around for over 30 years. It was an issue in the 2008 presidential election.

From Wiki:

Berkeley, California became the first city government in the United States to pass a sanctuary resolution on November 8, 1971.

San Francisco declared itself a sanctuary city in 1989, and city officials strengthened the stance in 2013 with its 'Due Process for All' ordinance. The law declared local authorities could not hold immigrants for immigration officials if they had no violent felonies on their records and did not currently face charges.

Lemon Drop Husker
03-30-2017, 07:07 PM
There is a great deal of logic to it. Using data, not anecdotes. we find that incarceration rates among illegal immigrants is much lower than among native born Americans of a similar education level. We also find that in sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants are much more likely to report a crime, cooperate in a police investigation, send their kids to school and avail themselves of community services than they are in situations where they are fearful of deportation.

They are also more likely to find and keep a job. Which means they pay taxes. Which means they help to pay for those community services they avail themselves of.

On the other hand we have the conservative logic which says everyone but me is a freeloader and unworthy of serious consideration.

Why did Obama deport more illegals than any President before him in the entire history of our country? Surely he knew of these stats, right?

He actually deported more people under his watch than Clinton and W combined.

Surely you were promoting rights for illegals during the Obama administration, right?

OntheRail
03-30-2017, 07:17 PM
Why did Obama deport more illegals than any President before him in the entire history of our country? Surely he knew of these stats, right?

He actually deported more people under his watch than Clinton and W combined.

Surely you were promoting rights for illegals during the Obama administration, right?

They played with the metric of what constituted " A Deportation " so the actual hands on walk across the border number is not that great.

Lemon Drop Husker
03-30-2017, 07:35 PM
They played with the metric of what constituted " A Deportation " so the actual hands on walk across the border number is not that great.

So the official ICE numbers are incorrect?

https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016

delayjf
03-30-2017, 08:21 PM
Trump should pass a law allowing citizens to sue the offending jurisdictions and the responsible officials in federal court when they are harmed by illegal aliens that the jurisdictions/Officials release back onto the streets.

delayjf
03-30-2017, 08:30 PM
They are also more likely to find and keep a job. Which means they pay taxes. Which means they help to pay for those community services they avail themselves of.

Not in CA, to pay for the cost of educating their kids they would have to have an income of 60K a year, the fact is the children of illegal aliens are a huge cost to the state of CA.

When filing taxes, they declare enough dependents to receive all their pay and then get refunds from the IRS when they declare child tax credits for all the kids they claim on their tax returns. Believe me, they know what they are doing and have plenty of help and advise to gain the system.

JustRalph
03-30-2017, 09:06 PM
There is a great deal of logic to it. Using data, not anecdotes. we find that incarceration rates among illegal immigrants is much lower than among native born Americans of a similar education level. We also find that in sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants are much more likely to report a crime, cooperate in a police investigation, send their kids to school and avail themselves of community services than they are in situations where they are fearful of deportation.

They are also more likely to find and keep a job. Which means they pay taxes. Which means they help to pay for those community services they avail themselves of.

On the other hand we have the conservative logic which says everyone but me is a freeloader and unworthy of serious consideration.

Such horseshit. You once again buy the government numbers and line. There is a huge underground economy built around the illegal community. More likely to find and keep a job? More likely than who? Most pay no taxes unless you count gas taxes at the pump. They suck the hell out of the food stamp line and the various other handouts. They don't buy car insurance unless they are dogged by a court. They make up a huge portion of the prison system. Somewhere between 20-30% depending on who you believe.

This 3% of the population makes up 12% of the murder convictions in the United States. THINK ABOUT THAT NUMBER. It doesn't include unsolved crimes, crimes where they bailed out and fled back to Mexico etc. That is convictions only. CONVICTIONS AND SOLVED CRIMES ONLY. In sanctuary cities murder cases are solved in the 48-52% range. Think about that.

This doesn't even consider the bullshit number of 11-12 million illegals in the U.S. I have been told by ICE officers that it's at least double that.

So you come in here spouting your government provided bullshit once again. Btw, we didn't even get into how more likely they are to kill cops.........or maim or injure them. They cover up those numbers too.......

letswastemoney
03-30-2017, 09:26 PM
It's not a country unless we can control our own borders. There is no argument against that.

If we can't control our own borders, then we belong to Mexico and the world. They decide our borders apparently.

davew
03-30-2017, 09:51 PM
There is a great deal of logic to it. Using data, not anecdotes. we find that incarceration rates among illegal immigrants is much lower than among native born Americans of a similar education level. We also find that in sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants are much more likely to report a crime, cooperate in a police investigation, send their kids to school and avail themselves of community services than they are in situations where they are fearful of deportation.

They are also more likely to find and keep a job. Which means they pay taxes. Which means they help to pay for those community services they avail themselves of.

On the other hand we have the conservative logic which says everyone but me is a freeloader and unworthy of serious consideration.


Have you advertised on craigslist that you have a 'sanctuary house' - so undocumented can come and live with you, until they become citizens?


I know Michael Moore volunteered his 'houses' for refugees needing a place to hang, until they get their lives back in order,

Jess Hawsen Arown
03-30-2017, 10:11 PM
Per a link I provided in another thread I initiated,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_state_and_local_politicians_convi cted_of_crimes

a few more Democratic Mayors behind bars won't upset anyone except for a few snowflakes.

dkithore
03-30-2017, 11:43 PM
There is a great deal of logic to it. Using data, not anecdotes. we find that incarceration rates among illegal immigrants is much lower than among native born Americans of a similar education level. We also find that in sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants are much more likely to report a crime, cooperate in a police investigation, send their kids to school and avail themselves of community services than they are in situations where they are fearful of deportation.

They are also more likely to find and keep a job. Which means they pay taxes. Which means they help to pay for those community services they avail themselves of.

On the other hand we have the conservative logic which says everyone but me is a freeloader and unworthy of serious consideration.

What data do you provide mostpost?

So your logical mind says, because illegals are close to being ideal citizens welcome these illegals (criminals), wait and decipher who meets your good illegals criteria (not supported by data) and support their children go to free schools, receive dole, compete with legal immigrant labor! Run with Mexican flags as demonstrators in California cities, killing and raping innocent women! This is far from logical, imo.

I would propose that all bleeding hearts to adopt (good) illegals and vouch for them. Put your money where your mouth is. Talk is cheap!

dkithore
03-30-2017, 11:47 PM
Trump should pass a law allowing citizens to sue the offending jurisdictions and the responsible officials in federal court when they are harmed by illegal aliens that the jurisdictions/Officials release back onto the streets.
Great idea!

kingfin66
03-31-2017, 01:49 AM
Per a link I provided in another thread I initiated,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_state_and_local_politicians_convi cted_of_crimes

a few more Democratic Mayors behind bars won't upset anyone except for a few snowflakes.

Serious question: What do you mean by "snowflakes?"

tucker6
03-31-2017, 07:45 AM
Serious question: What do you mean by "snowflakes?"

Before last year, snowflake-as-slang lingered on the fringes of the lexicon. It was a largely non-partisan slight — a mean, though not hateful, dig at millennials perceived to have an outsize sense of their own individuality and, by extension, importance. Helicopter parented to the hilt, millennials supposedly graduated from college (into a dismal economy with unprecedented mountains of student debt) too coddled for this cruel world, ill-equipped to face life’s indignities with dignity.

But as 2016 dawned, snowflake made its way to the mainstream and, in the process, evolved into something more vicious. The insult expanded to encompass not just the young but liberals of all ages; it became the epithet of choice for right-wingers to fling at anyone who could be accused of being too easily offended, too in need of “safe spaces,” too fragile.

https://thinkprogress.org/all-the-special-snowflakes-aaf1a922f37b

Murph
03-31-2017, 09:33 AM
Serious question: What do you mean by "snowflakes?"https://www.billoreilly.com/p/Old-School/Old-School/48426.html

Bill O'Reilly describes the term in his book, Old School.

Jess Hawsen Arown
03-31-2017, 09:58 AM
Serious question: What do you mean by "snowflakes?"

Snowflakes is a popular euphemism used to characterize emotionally vulnerable people who easily take offense and cannot cope with views that challenge their own.

William Buckley simply called them liberals more than half a century ago,when he said, "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."

More specifically, Generation Snowlflake is about children who need Obamacare under mommy and daddy's health care policy until they are 26 years old.

chadk66
03-31-2017, 12:10 PM
Such horseshit. You once again buy the government numbers and line. There is a huge underground economy built around the illegal community. More likely to find and keep a job? More likely than who? Most pay no taxes unless you count gas taxes at the pump. They suck the hell out of the food stamp line and the various other handouts. They don't buy car insurance unless they are dogged by a court. They make up a huge portion of the prison system. Somewhere between 20-30% depending on who you believe.

This 3% of the population makes up 12% of the murder convictions in the United States. THINK ABOUT THAT NUMBER. It doesn't include unsolved crimes, crimes where they bailed out and fled back to Mexico etc. That is convictions only. CONVICTIONS AND SOLVED CRIMES ONLY. In sanctuary cities murder cases are solved in the 48-52% range. Think about that.

This doesn't even consider the bullshit number of 11-12 million illegals in the U.S. I have been told by ICE officers that it's at least double that.

So you come in here spouting your government provided bullshit once again. Btw, we didn't even get into how more likely they are to kill cops.........or maim or injure them. They cover up those numbers too.......I don't know about incarcerations at the state level but the last figures I saw for federal prison's, illegals made up 38% of the inmate population

davew
03-31-2017, 12:40 PM
I don't know about incarcerations at the state level but the last figures I saw for federal prison's, illegals made up 38% of the inmate population

Well there you go, illegals/visitors are currently 50% of the 650 million in the country so are better than the legal residents.

Marshall Bennett
03-31-2017, 01:27 PM
Well there you go, illegals/visitors are currently 50% of the 650 million in the country so are better than the legal residents.
Where in the world do you pull your stats from? 50%....650 million?

chadk66
03-31-2017, 01:30 PM
Where in the world do you pull your stats from? 50%....650 million?boy that's what I was thinking:pound:

delayjf
03-31-2017, 03:52 PM
They don't buy car insurance unless they are dogged by a court. T

Was having a hard time getting my car to pass smog in CA, so I got a ticket. When I showed up in Orange County court., I arrived in my assigned court room, I believe they have about 4 court rooms that handles traffic violations. There were about 200 people in the room. Before any cases were heard, the bailiff came out and divided the room into 4 sections. No drivers license or insurance first offense, no drivers license or insurance second offense, no drivers license or insurance third offense, no drivers license or insurance fourth offense. Each with its own Spanish interrupter. My case didn't get heard that day, so I came back the following day and the same thing happened - the court was again divided into 4 sections for the same offenses I listed above. I asked one of the Police officers in the court and he said its the same everyday.

My car was hit by an three times in CA, one was a hit and run the other two did not have insurance. Learned my lesson, do not drive in CA without uninsured motorist coverage.

chadk66
03-31-2017, 04:26 PM
Was having a hard time getting my car to pass smog in CA, so I got a ticket. When I showed up in Orange County court., I arrived in my assigned court room, I believe they have about 4 court rooms that handles traffic violations. There were about 200 people in the room. Before any cases were heard, the bailiff came out and divided the room into 4 sections. No drivers license or insurance first offense, no drivers license or insurance second offense, no drivers license or insurance third offense, no drivers license or insurance fourth offense. Each with its own Spanish interrupter. My case didn't get heard that day, so I came back the following day and the same thing happened - the court was again divided into 4 sections for the same offenses I listed above. I asked one of the Police officers in the court and he said its the same everyday.

My car was hit by an three times in CA, one was a hit and run the other two did not have insurance. Learned my lesson, do not drive in CA without uninsured motorist coverage.most states it's law that you have to have uninsured motorist coverage.

_______
03-31-2017, 05:59 PM
most states it's law that you have to have uninsured motorist coverage.

So a government mandate on the insurance market. I feel like I've heard that topic discussed in a negative way here in the past. Maybe I'm wrong...

In California, if you buy liability insurance you must be offered u/m coverage and sign a waiver to either decline it or accept it with lower limits than your liability coverage. That part only covers bodily injury to you or a passenger in your car.

The u/m property damage limit is capped at $3500 so if you aren't driving a beater, you better carry collision.

chadk66
03-31-2017, 06:21 PM
So a government mandate on the insurance market. I feel like I've heard that topic discussed in a negative way here in the past. Maybe I'm wrong...

In California, if you buy liability insurance you must be offered u/m coverage and sign a waiver to either decline it or accept it with lower limits than your liability coverage. That part only covers bodily injury to you or a passenger in your car.

The u/m property damage limit is capped at $3500 so if you aren't driving a beater, you better carry collision.There are numerous reasons for uninsured motorist coverage. and every state has their own requirements especially on amount of coverage. Most are 30K UM coverage.

Clocker
03-31-2017, 06:21 PM
So a government mandate on the insurance market. I feel like I've heard that topic discussed in a negative way here in the past. Maybe I'm wrong...



A number of people here tried to use the auto insurance requirement to justify the individual mandate, saying the two things were identical.

The difference is that the courts have ruled that driving on public roads is a privilege, not a right, and that the government can regulate the use of its roads. Auto insurance is a condition of using the public roads. Under the ACA, health insurance is a condition of living in this country.

The other difference is that mandatory auto insurance is to cover other people. Coverage of your car is still usually optional.

_______
03-31-2017, 07:04 PM
A number of people here tried to use the auto insurance requirement to justify the individual mandate, saying the two things were identical.

The difference is that the courts have ruled that driving on public roads is a privilege, not a right, and that the government can regulate the use of its roads. Auto insurance is a condition of using the public roads. Under the ACA, health insurance is a condition of living in this country.

The other difference is that mandatory auto insurance is to cover other people. Coverage of your car is still usually optional.

Your first point is dead on. No argument from me.

What Chad is talking about (u/m coverage) is, in fact, first party coverage. It covers your damages from an uninsured motorist.

I personally think he's mistaken about it being mandatory anywhere but I don't know the laws of every state so am open to being surprised. If it WERE mandatory somewhere then it would be an analog to required medical insurance.

But it's not required in California so I suspect I'm right about it not being required anywhere.

Clocker
03-31-2017, 08:12 PM
Your first point is dead on. No argument from me.

What Chad is talking about (u/m coverage) is, in fact, first party coverage. It covers your damages from an uninsured motorist.

I personally think he's mistaken about it being mandatory anywhere but I don't know the laws of every state so am open to being surprised. If it WERE mandatory somewhere then it would be an analog to required medical insurance.

But it's not required in California so I suspect I'm right about it not being required anywhere.

Yes, I was just talking about the fallacy of comparing mandatory liability and mandatory health insurance.

I was not aware of mandatory u/m coverage either, but decided to double check. It turns out that 22 states and DC require it, and many of those have mandatory under-insured coverage also. And it really seems odd that California, the ultimate Big Brother state, doesn't make it mandatory.

http://www.insurance.com/auto-insurance/coverage/uninsured-underinsured-motorist-coverage.html (http://www.insurance.com/auto-insurance/coverage/uninsured-underinsured-motorist-coverage.html)

chadk66
04-01-2017, 09:56 AM
Your first point is dead on. No argument from me.

What Chad is talking about (u/m coverage) is, in fact, first party coverage. It covers your damages from an uninsured motorist.

I personally think he's mistaken about it being mandatory anywhere but I don't know the laws of every state so am open to being surprised. If it WERE mandatory somewhere then it would be an analog to required medical insurance.

But it's not required in California so I suspect I'm right about it not being required anywhere.I sold insurance years ago in several states. All those states required it to be attached to all liability insurance policies which all drivers are required to have at a minimum "liability" insurance. You have to keep in mind that not all states are "no fault" states. ND isn't. So if I am driving in winter and run into a parked car because of Icy roads and that car owner didn't have insurance, my insurance would cover his car damage. And if there were occupants in that car my uninsured motorist coverage would cover their injuries even though they didn't have insurance because they could ultimately sue me. It's cheap insurance. If I get in a wreck here in ND and it is determined the other guy is 100% at fault I don't even have to deal with my insurance company. Everything is submitted through the guilty party's insurance. And my rates don't go up from it. In states where there is "no fault" insurance, my rates would skyrocket even though I didn't have a damn thing to do with the crash aside from being an innocent recipient of a totaled out car.

Tom
04-01-2017, 10:53 AM
Federal roads into and out of sanctuary cities should require passports to use. If the cities do not follow our law, they should be treated as foreign areas and all passage restricted.

Can't do that on state highways, but we sure could put a major hurt on them - enough of a hurt to make the sensible citizens in them to rise up and go for regime change.

_______
04-01-2017, 11:14 AM
I sold insurance years ago in several states. All those states required it to be attached to all liability insurance policies which all drivers are required to have at a minimum "liability" insurance. You have to keep in mind that not all states are "no fault" states. ND isn't. So if I am driving in winter and run into a parked car because of Icy roads and that car owner didn't have insurance, my insurance would cover his car damage. And if there were occupants in that car my uninsured motorist coverage would cover their injuries even though they didn't have insurance because they could ultimately sue me. It's cheap insurance. If I get in a wreck here in ND and it is determined the other guy is 100% at fault I don't even have to deal with my insurance company. Everything is submitted through the guilty party's insurance. And my rates don't go up from it. In states where there is "no fault" insurance, my rates would skyrocket even though I didn't have a damn thing to do with the crash aside from being an innocent recipient of a totaled out car.

I worked in claims for a few desperate years and it doesn't surprise me to hear that a sales guy didn't know what he was selling. Dealt with that all the time.

As I noted earlier, u/m is a first party coverage. It would NEVER cover the occupant of any vehicle but your own. That is true across state lines. I'll wager my CPCU designation on it.

The occupants of the parked car who were injured would be covered by your liability insurance, not the u/m.

I'm glad to hear you managed to find employment in another field.

chadk66
04-01-2017, 12:17 PM
I worked in claims for a few desperate years and it doesn't surprise me to hear that a sales guy didn't know what he was selling. Dealt with that all the time.

As I noted earlier, u/m is a first party coverage. It would NEVER cover the occupant of any vehicle but your own. That is true across state lines. I'll wager my CPCU designation on it.

The occupants of the parked car who were injured would be covered by your liability insurance, not the u/m.

I'm glad to hear you managed to find employment in another field.you can wager anything you want. insurance varies greatly from state to state. I got out of the business because it was filled with scum bags that wanted to screw their policyholders at any opportunity they had. I put them one step on the run below used car salesmen :lol:

JustRalph
01-18-2018, 03:47 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/18/illegal-immigrant-accused-stabbing-stranger-in-neck-at-california-market-had-been-deported-seven-times.html

Only deported 7 times

boxcar
01-18-2018, 03:51 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/18/illegal-immigrant-accused-stabbing-stranger-in-neck-at-california-market-had-been-deported-seven-times.html

Only deported 7 times

Can't keep an bad illegal hombre down... :rolleyes: