The Fart of the Deal (or The Art of the Fail)

[Ocala Mike]

Donald Trump, who didn't know health care legislation was complicated, got his comeuppance today. He's going to take names and kick ass, though, so watch out Freedom Caucus and "moderates." Of course, it was all Ryan's fault, doncha know. Only problem is, the tax relief and infrastructure bills are now set back.

Now, the dems will be filibustering his SC nominee, but I think they should hold their ammo on that.

[woodtoo]

This thread should be delayed until at after the vote is over. Just sayin.:popcorn:

[Ocala Mike]

Well, even if it squeaks by, it's all uphill from here. Best thing for the R's is for it to fail, otherwise they get blamed.

[woodtoo]

Ryan pulled it. It wont save his sorry ass.

[rgustafson]

Ryan pulled it. It wont save his sorry ass.

If you think it was Ryan's call to pull it you are delusional.

[woodtoo]

I think he begged on bended knee to Mr. President to have it pulled.:lol:

[Fager Fan]

I don't see this as a fail for Trump, but instead a victory of sorts. The Repubs had 7 years to figure out a substitute plan, and they failed miserably. Trump called for them to sh** or get off the pot, so that's exactly what happened. I bet he hires some people to put together a new GOOD plan to give to the Repubs for another try down the road since the Repubs are useless.

This is all on the Repubs. I've heard enough to believe it wasn't a good plan, so I'm good with it not passing. You don't replace something bad with something else that is bad. Get it right.

[Clocker]

This is all on the Repubs.

No, it was killed only because enough Republicans who knew it was a bad bill stuck to their guns, rather than be pressured by Ryan and Trump.

[classhandicapper]

No, it was killed only because enough Republicans who knew it was a bad bill stuck to their guns, rather than be pressured by Ryan and Trump.

Yes.

It was the best thing that could happen.

Trump felt pressured to make a deal, but Ryan put together a bad bill. It's much better to take some political heat for not making a bad deal than making a bad deal and dealing with the implications of it when it fails.

The republicans saved Trump from himself even if he does not appreciate that right now. Even his own instincts on the subject different than what he was given. I'm surprised he didn't reject it on his own.

[JustRalph]

No, it was killed only because enough Republicans who knew it was a bad bill stuck to their guns, rather than be pressured by Ryan and Trump.


My take too. Which is exactly what they should have done. This is the way things are supposed to work. They can come back to it....

[OntheRail]

I don't see this as a fail for Trump, but instead a victory of sorts. The Repubs had 7 years to figure out a substitute plan, and they failed miserably. Trump called for them to sh** or get off the pot, so that's exactly what happened. I bet he hires some people to put together a new GOOD plan to give to the Repubs for another try down the road since the Repubs are useless.

This is all on the Repubs. I've heard enough to believe it wasn't a good plan, so I'm good with it not passing. You don't replace something bad with something else that is bad. Get it right.

I agree... Trump plays chess while the house and senate play checkers.

Seven yrs for this... should of been an iron clad slam dunk had they really put the work into it.

[elysiantraveller]

The fact some of you here are trying to spin this as a good thing for Trump is truly amazing... this is a failure of epic proportions.

[elysiantraveller]

No, it was killed only because enough Republicans who knew it was a bad bill stuck to their guns, rather than be pressured by Ryan and Trump.

This.....:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[Fager Fan]

The fact some of you here are trying to spin this as a good thing for Trump is truly amazing... this is a failure of epic proportions.

Passing Obamacare was an epic failure.

[elysiantraveller]

Passing Obamacare was an epic failure.

Key word... passing... :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

The fact some of you here are trying to spin this as a good thing for Trump is truly amazing... this is a failure of epic proportions.Epic proportions? Wow.

Whatever you say man...

[elysiantraveller]

Epic proportions? Wow.

Whatever you say man...


His agenda is now hijacked. Dead in the water until this is settled. His "something great" was so bad it was yanked from consideration to avoid embarrassment and fracturing of the party.

It's a pretty big effing fail.

[PaceAdvantage]

How come you never post in the racing section? Just curious...

[elysiantraveller]

How come you never post in the racing section? Just curious...


Honestly I don't have the time to follow it anymore. I read stuff over there on occasion but sadly life gets in the way of this hobby at this point. Even here I just pop in occasionally for the commentary.

[Track Collector]

His agenda is now hijacked. Dead in the water until this is settled. His "something great" was so bad it was yanked from consideration to avoid embarrassment and fracturing of the party.

The party is already fractured. The "Establishment" republicans want Trump to fail. They resent the coming of new order and the doing away of current way things work in Washington, despite the fact that the American people will benefit from it. That is why Ryan and company put up a bill that did not have consensus before hand, and they had many years to work on it IF it was something they really wanted.

I suspect a significant number of Establishment Republicans (just like Democrats) are beholden to lobbyists and special interest groups, who to which they give their highest level of loyalty. Remember that Trump and Ryan "appear" in public to be working together, but Ryan has never really supported Trump. I tend to lean in direction that he is a snake in the grass.

Expect further discussions and efforts to improve the current health care situation in the near future.

[Fager Fan]

Key word... passing... :lol:

This isn't some game, you know. You laugh like the U.S. is better or worse based on political points scored by our respective parties?

I don't know if the bill was a good one. Trump said it was a good one after phase 3 kicked in. All I do know is that my own insurance has gone up by about 60%, and my deductible has tripled to a very high amount. I've never been one to use much insurance (knock on wood), but now I'm paying a small fortune for basically just catastrophic care. I don't consider this a game but instead fixing what is wrong. I don't need to pay for pediatric and maternity care, for example, and it's nuts that we do have to pay for such things. We need it fixed.

[woodtoo]

Just heard Rat Ryan say "doing big things is hard" time to step down and leave the heavy lifting to a real leader.;)

[Clocker]

His "something great" was so bad it was yanked from consideration to avoid embarrassment and fracturing of the party.



The Trumpsters are putting the onus of this terrible bill entirely on Ryan's shoulders. Many are in denial as to Trump's role in drafting the bill.

Despite some efforts to pin responsibility for a flailing Obamacare repeal bill on House Speaker Paul Ryan, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer emphasized Friday that President Donald Trump and Ryan had worked closely together on the bill.

Responding to questions from reporters at his daily press briefing, Spicer called the American Health Care Act a “joint effort” between Congress and the President, and mentioned multiple times that Speaker Ryan was updating Trump at the White House.

“I think the Speaker has done everything he can,” Spicer said, when asked if the White House was happy with Ryan's job performance.

"He’s worked really closely with the President," Spicer continued. "I think at the end of the day, I said this yesterday, you can’t force people to vote. But I think we’ve given them every single reason to fulfill every pledge that they’ve made, and I think this is the right thing to do.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/spicer-no-trump-ryan-coordination-ahca

[woodtoo]

When your enemy thinks you are Attacking. Retreat.
When your enemy thinks you are Retreating. Attack.

Sun Tszu...

[johnhannibalsmith]

Another win. He did say you'd get tired of winning.

[fast4522]

Just heard Rat Ryan say "doing big things is hard" time to step down and leave the heavy lifting to a real leader.;)

Got to agree with this, and when the increased costs are not addressed who does it benefit.

[NJ Stinks]

You don't replace something bad with something else that is bad. Get it right.

:lol:

More like Obamacare is so good the clowns in the majority can't come up with something better.

Face it, if the GOP really cared about the vast majority of Americans, they would have worked with Dems over the last 7 years to make Obamacare better. But when you don't care, you get what we have today.

Anyway, best thing is the majority of Americans are no longer going to be satisfied with just the haves having decent health insurance. :jump:

That's progress with a capital P. :cool:

[fast4522]

His agenda is now hijacked. Dead in the water until this is settled. His "something great" was so bad it was yanked from consideration to avoid embarrassment and fracturing of the party.

It's a pretty big effing fail.

I said to you long ago all we have to do is not amend it and just let it die, this is its fate.

[classhandicapper]

The fact some of you here are trying to spin this as a good thing for Trump is truly amazing... this is a failure of epic proportions.

You are wrong as usual when it comes to Trump.

It's a "political" failure because assorted vermin on the left and in the media will do their best to convince the dimwits at home that it's a failure. Unfortunately many will believe it. But if you don't pass a terrible bill, that's a huge victory for the people that would have had to suffer the consequences of a bad bill. That's what this was. It barely resembled anything close to some of the principles Trump spoke about during the campaign that would make some sense (like expanded HSAs, cross state border insurance, and things like that)

What matters is what comes next.

As Obamacare continues to fail, the demand for change will increase.

Can he manage to pass some of the things that make sense while ridding the system of the things that don't at that point? We don't know yet. Maybe not.

However, in terms of actually doing something good for the country the fact the the Freedom Caucus did not cave is a plus for America...assuming what comes next is better than the crap Ryan tried to ram through.

[fast4522]

:lol:

More like Obamacare is so good the clowns in the majority can't come up with something better.

Face it, if the GOP really cared about the vast majority of Americans, they would have worked with Dems over the last 7 years to make Obamacare better. But when you don't care, you get what we have today.

Anyway, best thing is the majority of Americans are no longer going to be satisfied with just the haves having decent health insurance. :jump:

That's progress with a capital P. :cool:

Over 1/2 of the country does not want European anything, what you want is not in the best interests of these United States.

[Fager Fan]

:lol:

More like Obamacare is so good the clowns in the majority can't come up with something better.

Face it, if the GOP really cared about the vast majority of Americans, they would have worked with Dems over the last 7 years to make Obamacare better. But when you don't care, you get what we have today.

Anyway, best thing is the majority of Americans are no longer going to be satisfied with just the haves having decent health insurance. :jump:

That's progress with a capital P. :cool:

Please tell me what has been better with Obamacare. I'm middle class. My rates have gone up 60%, and my deductible is so high that it's basically only a catastrophic policy. My insurance was canceled last year because the carrier I had no longer was going to operate in my state (and no idea what other states or systems they were pulling out of). I've heard of no one who actually is happy with their health insurance now. So, what's so great about it? Please detail like I just did how YOUR insurance is better today than it was prior to Obamacare.

[NJ Stinks]

Please tell me what has been better with Obamacare. I'm middle class. My rates have gone up 60%, and my deductible is so high that it's basically only a catastrophic policy. My insurance was canceled last year because the carrier I had no longer was going to operate in my state (and no idea what other states or systems they were pulling out of). I've heard of no one who actually is happy with their health insurance now. So, what's so great about it? Please detail like I just did how YOUR insurance is better today than it was prior to Obamacare.

My insurance has not changed at all. Yea, my premiums still go up every year but certainly no worse than before Obamacare. I have met people who have been helped greatly by Obamacare but I never met even one individual in person who told me what you just said (that your coverage stinks and it costs a fortune). I'm sorry it has not been good for your family.

Having said that, don't you think even once in-a-while that it would have been great if the GOP tried to do even one thing to improve Obamacare instead of just trying to kill it for 7 years? Surely knowing 20+million people now can afford health insurance might have motivated the GOP to work with the Dems to make Obamacare work better for all Americans.

[jk3521]

:lol:

More like Obamacare is so good the clowns in the majority can't come up with something better.

Face it, if the GOP really cared about the vast majority of Americans, they would have worked with Dems over the last 7 years to make Obamacare better. But when you don't care, you get what we have today.

Anyway, best thing is the majority of Americans are no longer going to be satisfied with just the haves having decent health insurance. :jump:

That's progress with a capital P. :cool:


Let's face it . Republicans would rather have no Affordable Health Care Act at all ! But now they're stuck, because they shot their mouths off saying that they could do better. That's not saying that anyone couldn't do better, but it sure as hell isn't them !

[EasyGoer89]

More winning for Trump.

He wins so much that even when the delusional left thinks he lost, he still won.

[andtheyreoff]

More winning for Trump.

He wins so much that even when the delusional left thinks he lost, he still won.

Is it possible for Trump to do any wrong in your eyes?

[Hank]

Let's face it . Republicans would rather have no Affordable Health Care Act at all ! But now they're stuck, because they shot their mouths off saying that they could do better. That's not saying that anyone couldn't do better, but it sure as hell isn't them !

They couldn't get their VR sets out fast enough.

[lamboguy]

how about healthcare these days is more fake than the news you get from CNN and FOX

[EasyGoer89]

Is it possible for Trump to do any wrong in your eyes?

Yes. Plenty. Not getting rid of Paul RINO or Comey are things he needs to address.

I don't think he needs To get sucked into Twitter battles, gotta pick his spots better.

He's not perfect by any stretch, but I approve of his general message which is safety first and cleaning up some of the corruption. I trust him to make the right moves, I haven't had any reason to think that I shouldn't trust him, so I'm going to trust him.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

The fact some of you here are trying to spin this as a good thing for Trump is truly amazing... this is a failure of epic proportions.

I always love the inclusion of the word "epic". A term that is so incredibly overused. :pound:

[Lemon Drop Husker]

how about healthcare these days is more fake than the news you get from CNN and FOX

I'm actually a bit relieved in that the attempt to replace Obamacare won't happen. We'd hear daily stories about some cancer patient "left to die" and didn't get healthcare due to the repeal of Obamacare. The MSM would overwhelm us with such stories. My goodness, Jake Tapper would turn blue at some point in time with run on sentences after run on sentences.

The real story now, is that we'll get to see the entire legacy of the previous president die on the vine in the coming 18 months as Obamacare collapses into the biggest fraud ever perpetuated upon Americans since the signing of the Constitution.

[lamboguy]

I'm actually a bit relieved in that the attempt to replace Obamacare won't happen. We'd hear daily stories about some cancer patient "left to die" and didn't get healthcare due to the repeal of Obamacare. The MSM wo y uld overwhelm us with such stories. My goodness, Jake Tapper would turn blue at some point in time with run on sentences after run on sentences.

The real story now, is that we'll get to see the entire legacy of the previous president die on the vine in the coming 18 months as Obamacare collapses into the biggest fraud ever perpetuated upon Americans since the signing of the Constitution.you couldn't be more right.

let me get to this stuff about medical treatment for cancer. just recently a trainer friend of mine had his wife come up with stage 4 cancer in some bad places in and around her spine. she was being treated in a very fine place The Cleaveland Clinic. the oncologist took xrays and made her get radiation on one specific spot. she got it and my friend refused to let her go through any more of that treatment. he decided to treat her his own natural way. the tumor that the Clinic treated actually grew in size while the other ones that were treated naturally shrunk. eventually the one that grew started to shrink. after 2 months of the natural stuff she is eating better and looks as good as she ever has.

the story goes that treating stage 4 cancer patients with burning cancer cells with radiation and poisoning the rest of the body with with chemo is very expensive and has a very low success rate. but for someone like my friends wife would probably cost around $1 million and might not get any results at all.

because the American Medical Association is behind all procedures and protocols that doctor's perform, it takes the place of some common sense that many doctors might have but get their arms tied behind their backs not to use. the standards we have in training our doctors are real good, we get the most brilliant people going into that profession. why can't we take advantage of their abilities and let them do some good?

instead the system is set up with all these middle men between the patient and the doctor that have their hands in everyone's pockets and could give a rats ass about their victims.

[Tom]

The real story now, is that we'll get to see the entire legacy of the previous president die on the vine in the coming 18 months as Obamacare collapses into the biggest fraud ever perpetuated upon Americans since the signing of the Constitution.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to suffer while his bunch of worthless POS's play politics. People like Stinky are only concerned that their own premiums have not gone up, everyone else be damned. People like his say hey, more people now has insurance, but the fact is, more people cannot afford to use it. The left here are jumping for joy, showing their total ignorance when you consider the ACA was passed and not one person read it! That is all that matters to simple minds.

This is a tribute the real republican party - worthless liars and scoundrels.

It was a bad bill and deserved to die.
It was presented by those who are traitors to us all.
Paul Ryan must go, by whatever means. He is an enemy of the people.

[elysiantraveller]

You are wrong as usual when it comes to Trump.

It's a "political" failure because assorted vermin on the left and in the media will do their best to convince the dimwits at home that it's a failure. Unfortunately many will believe it. But if you don't pass a terrible bill, that's a huge victory for the people that would have had to suffer the consequences of a bad bill. That's what this was. It barely resembled anything close to some of the principles Trump spoke about during the campaign that would make some sense (like expanded HSAs, cross state border insurance, and things like that)

What matters is what comes next.

As Obamacare continues to fail, the demand for change will increase.

Can he manage to pass some of the things that make sense while ridding the system of the things that don't at that point? We don't know yet. Maybe not.

However, in terms of actually doing something good for the country the fact the the Freedom Caucus did not cave is a plus for America...assuming what comes next is better than the crap Ryan tried to ram through.

I agree with your premise on the bottom just not the spin. This is a failure of current leadership and of the GOP in general, President included. Any spin is just that spin.

At least you aren't a wither on the vine and die guy. As Obamacare continues to fail which we ALL knew it would this will be considered a giant defeat for the President and for Republicans because we came down to forcing a vote for a repeal and replacement. Trump even threatened GOP lawmakers who would vote against it. Then in the 11th hour had to pull the bill because he simply didn't have support. As the ACA continues to erode the pressure won't be on Obama it will be on the Executive and Legislature who were voted into office to replace it with "something terrific." To think otherwise is simply foolish.

Like I said I don't disagree with the Freedom Caucus but this is the Freedom Caucus demonstrating that Trump doesn't have near the deal-making ability he thought he had.

The only sector Trump has been killing it in is the business sector which isn't surprising to myself nor should it be to anyone else given the lay of the land. Everywhere else he has been stopped by stout resistance.

The wither on the vine people are the same ones who supported Trump and his day one repeal and replace with "something great." They aren't getting that anytime in the foreseeable future. They should be upset but of course aren't... because internal consistency isn't important to the Trump supporter. Didn't HOH joke about how fast this was going to be accomplished in another thread?

[Tom]

Any success for the GOP begins with the ouster of Paul Ryan.
Ryan as speaker means failure on all topics.

Trump threatened the wrong group this week.
The mainstream GO is the enemy.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

The wither on the vine people are the same ones who supported Trump and his day one repeal and replace with "something great." They aren't getting that anytime in the foreseeable future. They should be upset but of course aren't... because internal consistency isn't important to the Trump supporter. Didn't HOH joke about how fast this was going to be accomplished in another thread?

I really do hope you are right, and that Obamacare may actually work even though all evidence thus far says it is a complete shitshow.

I am all for everybody having healthcare, but it can't be at huge costs for those that can "afford it".

Will be an interesting watch over the next 18 months as I can see nothing but further doom and gloom of a ridiculous plan with nothing but handouts in mind.

[Fager Fan]

I agree with your premise on the bottom just not the spin. This is a failure of current leadership and of the GOP in general, President included. Any spin is just that spin.

At least you aren't a wither on the vine and die guy. As Obamacare continues to fail which we ALL knew it would this will be considered a giant defeat for the President and for Republicans because we came down to forcing a vote for a repeal and replacement. Trump even threatened GOP lawmakers who would vote against it. Then in the 11th hour had to pull the bill because he simply didn't have support. As the ACA continues to erode the pressure won't be on Obama it will be on the Executive and Legislature who were voted into office to replace it with "something terrific." To think otherwise is simply foolish.

Like I said I don't disagree with the Freedom Caucus but this is the Freedom Caucus demonstrating that Trump doesn't have near the deal-making ability he thought he had.

The only sector Trump has been killing it in is the business sector which isn't surprising to myself nor should it be to anyone else given the lay of the land. Everywhere else he has been stopped by stout resistance.

The wither on the vine people are the same ones who supported Trump and his day one repeal and replace with "something great." They aren't getting that anytime in the foreseeable future. They should be upset but of course aren't... because internal consistency isn't important to the Trump supporter. Didn't HOH joke about how fast this was going to be accomplished in another thread?

Why don't you give him a break? He's used to dealing with people who use logic to guide them, not people who use politics to guide them. He even admitted this was a big learning experience for him, and I'm good with that admittance. When's the last time a politician admitted to not having experience in economics and business and many of the other areas that would be helpful to them?

He's smart. He'll figure out how to get a good bill passed next time. If the politicians don't muck it up.

Did you read about Time Warner bringing back thousands of jobs by hiring Americans and getting away from their Indian call centers?

There are a lot of moving parts here.

[FantasticDan]

Did you read about Time Warner bringing back thousands of jobs by hiring Americans and getting away from their Indian call centers?:D Typically, Trump is claiming credit for plans that were already in place well before he was elected..

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-charter-commns-idUSKBN16V22I

[riskman]

Get all the lawmakers out of the health insurance business.
Let the pros in the insurance industry design several models ---policy
coverage, terms and.conditions. Design a basic policy which is bare boned and addtional coverage endorsements as needed by individual policy holders. Let the actuaries cost it out based on various scenarios taken into consideration medical underwriting information. The politics have to be left out of this or will be a failure.
A independent commission should be established away from DC and formed by a large risk management consulting firm. They will do the hiring and manage the entire project. They should think self insurance.excess/stop loss coverage and finance schemes to put this together. Do we have the brightest and the best here? GET THE POLITICS
OUT OF THIS !!!!! Start from scratch,as if we did not have a health care system. Do the right thing for all of the American people.
What we have now is not working and neither is our lawmakers.It all has to change or if necessary it may have to be accomplished on a state basis or a combination of states jointly. Think bigly and it can happen.

[elysiantraveller]

I really do hope you are right, and that Obamacare may actually work even though all evidence thus far says it is a complete shitshow.

I am all for everybody having healthcare, but it can't be at huge costs for those that can "afford it".

Will be an interesting watch over the next 18 months as I can see nothing but further doom and gloom of a ridiculous plan with nothing but handouts in mind.

Where did I ever say Obamacare will work? I've been saying the opposite on here for the past 7 years. I KNOW its a shitshow. I knew it was the instant it was passed and found out what was in it.

This is the thing with a lot of people on here... any dissent of Trump means you are a democrat and supporter of the Obama Administration and its policies.

[Hank]

Get all the lawmakers out of the health insurance business.
Let the pros in the insurance industry design several models ---policy
coverage, terms and.conditions. Design a basic policy which is bare boned and addtional coverage endorsements as needed by individual policy holders. Let the actuaries cost it out based on various scenarios taken into consideration medical underwriting information. The politics have to be left out of this or will be a failure.
A independent commission should be established away from DC and formed by a large risk management consulting firm. They will do the hiring and manage the entire project. They should think self insurance.excess/stop loss coverage and finance schemes to put this together. Do we have the brightest and the best here? GET THE POLITICS
OUT OF THIS !!!!! Start from scratch,as if we did not have a health care system. Do the right thing for all of the American people.
What we have now is not working and neither is our lawmakers.It all has to change or if necessary it may have to be accomplished on a state basis or a combination of states jointly. Think bigly and it can happen.

Its been done already, it's called Obamacare.

[boxcar]

Its been done already, it's called Obamacare.

You know, Hanky...you're right. I have finally seen the light. I have urged President Trump to also fully embrace ObamaCare. See my post in Ryan Pull ObamaCare thread...

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Where did I ever say Obamacare will work? I've been saying the opposite on here for the past 7 years. I KNOW its a shitshow. I knew it was the instant it was passed and found out what was in it.

This is the thing with a lot of people on here... any dissent of Trump means you are a democrat and supporter of the Obama Administration and its policies.

And likewise, you see me as a Trumpster, right?

See how that goes?

Noted. And I think we can see eye to eye a bit more now. :ThmbUp:

[Lemon Drop Husker]

:D Typically, Trump is claiming credit for plans that were already in place well before he was elected..

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-charter-commns-idUSKBN16V22I

Yep.

Just like Obamans claim he bailed America out of the mortgage crisis. :pound:

[Tom]

Its been done already, it's called Obamacare.

Clearly you speak not from a position of knowledge.:rant::rant::rant:

[boxcar]

Clearly you speak not from a position of knowledge.:rant::rant::rant:

At least he speaks, so we know he's human. :coffee:

[riskman]

Its been done already, it's called Obamacare.

Obviously, you do not know what I am talking about.

[MargieRose]

:D Typically, Trump is claiming credit for plans that were already in place well before he was elected..

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-charter-commns-idUSKBN16V22I
I don't see anywhere in this article or the attached video where President Trump credits himself for the deal. I do see where he "praised" Charter for stepping up. He gave THEM the recognition for doing right by the American people. THIS is what he, and I would venture to say most rational Americans, would like to see happening more and more.

"There is nothing more effective than sincere, accurate praise..."
(Bill Walsh)

I just don't understand how so often liberals tend to read things into something that is just not there, except that maybe the desire to destroy at any cost has become your driving god.

[classhandicapper]

At least you aren't a wither on the vine and die guy. As Obamacare continues to fail which we ALL knew it would this will be considered a giant defeat for the President and for Republicans because we came down to forcing a vote for a repeal and replacement. Trump even threatened GOP lawmakers who would vote against it. Then in the 11th hour had to pull the bill because he simply didn't have support. As the ACA continues to erode the pressure won't be on Obama it will be on the Executive and Legislature who were voted into office to replace it with "something terrific." To think otherwise is simply foolish.

I come from a different perspective.

As far as I am concerned the only good political result is one where politicians, members of the media, and members of the IC are put in jail. Since that isn't happening, I am interested in the economic result.

This was a bad bill. That it failed is a good result. I don't care what all the talking heads are saying and what all the people at home that listen to them think.

Politically, I think Trump was foolish for working with Ryan. The people that elected Trump can't stand Ryan and many of the republicans in congress can't stand Trump. To work with them practically guaranteed an unpopular result even if it passed. His supporters were beating him up on Twitter before the vote even looked to be in trouble.

He has to go with what got him into power. I don't think he has come to grips with the fact that many in his own party hate him also. He's trying to be a politician and get other politicians to like and work with him. That's a mistake. He could be the best deal maker and have the best policy on earth and they will still look to destroy him. If he can't pass what he wants he has to call out all the republicans and democrats that are stopping him. Better for him to go down in flames trying to do the right thing than to go down in flames doing the wrong thing. He has to ensure that members of his own party are terrified of losing power for bucking him.

To me, it looks like Rand Paul has good intentions and wants to work with him to achieve something good.

[Clocker]

He's trying to be a politician and get other politicians to like and work with him.

This doesn't sound like trying to get politicians to like him and work with him.

When the balky hardliners of the House Freedom Caucus visited the White House earlier this week, this was Steve Bannon's opening line, according to people in the conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building: "Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill."
https://www.axios.com/inside-the-trumpcare-meltdown-2329417172.html (https://www.axios.com/inside-the-trumpcare-meltdown-2329417172.html)

In Trump's meeting with the Freedom Caucus, the members brought up issues they wanted addressed in the bill.

Trump decided to cut them off.

"Forget about the little shit," Trump said, according to multiple sources in the room. "Let's focus on the big picture here."

The group of roughly 30 House conservatives, gathered around a mammoth, oval-shaped conference table in the Cabinet Room of the White House, exchanged disapproving looks. Trump wanted to emphasize the political ramifications of the bill's defeat; specifically, he said, it would derail his first-term agenda and imperil his prospects for reelection in 2020.http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/obamacare-vote-paul-ryan-health-care-ahca-replacement-failure-trump-214947

[FantasticDan]

House repubs gather enough votes to pass their shit bill that everyone says is shit!

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/44/44c33efab85ad085d886863b5e63b3c8e8318d7be046d79a29 f5260b0480cf74.jpg

Trumpcare! Winning!

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[PaceAdvantage]

House repubs gather enough votes to pass their shit bill that everyone says is shit!

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/44/44c33efab85ad085d886863b5e63b3c8e8318d7be046d79a29 f5260b0480cf74.jpg

Trumpcare! Winning!

:puke: :puke: :puke:You get classier and classier the more reality sets in...:lol:

[FantasticDan]

You get classier and classier the more reality sets in...:lol:Yep, that's the foundation of O/T alright - classy. You've seen to that. :ThmbUp:

Btw, remember all those thousands of posts about the evils of Obamacare? Well, here we have repeal in motion.. and yet, nary a peep from anyone.

Now that's what I call support!

[PaceAdvantage]

You've seen to that. :ThmbUp:Like I said on the horse racing side, this place is what you make of it. I'm not the one making most of the posts in here...you guys are.

I let all the Bush haters post their shit, all the Obama haters post their shit, now I am letting all the Trump haters post their shit. Nobody has been stopped posting their shit unless they break the rules here.

Don't put this on me.

[ReplayRandall]

Yep, that's the foundation of O/T alright - classy. You've seen to that. :ThmbUp:

Btw, remember all those thousands of posts about the evils of Obamacare? Well, here we have repeal in motion.. and yet, nary a peep from anyone.

Now that's what I call support!
Obviously it's not getting through the Senate, so it's a non-event except to you...

[upthecreek]

Obviously it's not getting through the Senate, so it's a non-event except to you...
CNN(of all people) call it a major victory for Trump
Making America Great Again!

[delayjf]

Obviously it's not getting through the Senate, so it's a non-event except to you...

Here is THE question. Assuming your right and the bill fails in the Senate - What happens next, does Obamacare fail, and if so, who gets the blame? Are Democrats really pinning their elections hopes on the fact that Trump is unable to repeal Obamacare - at the same time that Obamacare is failing?

[Tom]

No one said it to be passed to see what was in it.
It is not a really good bill, but it TOWERS over Obama-NoCare.

[kingfin66]

Here is THE question. Assuming your right and the bill fails in the Senate - What happens next, does Obamacare fail, and if so, who gets the blame? Are Democrats really pinning their elections hopes on the fact that Trump is unable to repeal Obamacare - at the same time that Obamacare is failing?

That would be one of several campaign promises that he is yet to keep. Yesterday, I saw the grand theater of Sean Spicer arguing with the press about how to define a wall. It seems that a fence is now a wall, or another promise not being kept.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Yep, that's the foundation of O/T alright - classy. You've seen to that. :ThmbUp:

Btw, remember all those thousands of posts about the evils of Obamacare? Well, here we have repeal in motion.. and yet, nary a peep from anyone.

Now that's what I call support!

It isn't passed and "law", thus I won't celebrate like the clown show that was Schumer and Pelosi the other day.

[Tom]

I must insist that you stop insulting clown like that.

[fast4522]

No one said it to be passed to see what was in it.
It is not a really good bill, but it TOWERS over Obama-NoCare.

As I said it before, it works if you don't. In order for this bill to get traction if is signed into law will be phase 2 & 3. Having a robust 4+ growing economy will move millions into coverage at work. When 170 million people buying coverage at work moves to 200 million people buying coverage at work happens it will be a new day and seeing Nancy Pelosi on the television will be even more scary.

[Clocker]

In order for this bill to get traction if is signed into law will be phase 2 & 3.

Phase 2 will be the public option. Passage of this bill would effectively kill the individual mandate and the employer mandate. With fewer young and healthy people buying ObamaCare policies, the insurance companies will lose more money and raise rates or pull out of the market. The obvious big brother solution for that is for the government to start selling subsidized health insurance to "compete" with the evil, greedy insurance companies.

Phase 3 will be when all the private insurance companies are driven out of the market by government "competition", resulting in increasing public demand for single payer. Trump and the alt-right base want single payer, but Trump can't even talk about that until after the 2020 election because he needs the votes of true conservatives. (Neither Trump nor the alt-right being ideologically conservative.)

[fast4522]

Phase 2 will be the public option. Passage of this bill would effectively kill the individual mandate and the employer mandate. With fewer young and healthy people buying ObamaCare policies, the insurance companies will lose more money and raise rates or pull out of the market. The obvious big brother solution for that is for the government to start selling subsidized health insurance to "compete" with the evil, greedy insurance companies.

Phase 3 will be when all the private insurance companies are driven out of the market by government "competition", resulting in increasing public demand for single payer. Trump and the alt-right base want single payer, but Trump can't even talk about that until after the 2020 election because he needs the votes of true conservatives. (Neither Trump nor the alt-right being ideologically conservative.)

The individual mandate is killed in this first part of the bill. No longer will government mandate what has to be covered, it will be like before ACA. When your really open minded you see 7% of the population are effecting product for the other 93% of the population. That bullshit will end, single payer will be something they almost got but slipped away FOREVER.