Where do Jocks figure in your capping??

[Vince Stone]

How much weight do you give to the jocks riding horses? Does anyone have a list of what certain jocks do well with certain types or horses RE: Paco Lopez is aggressive. The ride Irad gave Terra Promessa prompted this thread. If you had money on her you were probably cursing him for a little while. So do the jocks figure in you're capping? If so to what extent. What are some good or bad qualities of certain jocks?

[EMD4ME]

How much weight do you give to the jocks riding horses? Does anyone have a list of what certain jocks do well with certain types or horses RE: Paco Lopez is aggressive. The ride Irad gave Terra Promessa prompted this thread. If you had money on her you were probably cursing him for a little while. So do the jocks figure in you're capping? If so to what extent. What are some good or bad qualities of certain jocks?

Absolutely but I will never pick a horse because so and so is the rider. If that makes sense. It's important to know the tendencies of a rider as well.

I am dead serious when I say that Ramon Dominguez was the only jock that I made sure I knew why he was on a horse (meaning, anything he rode, I took a triple/quadruple look into why he would). All others, are just a dime a dozen to me. I also don't care if it's Johnny V or M Franco on a Pletcher at the SPA. Many times riders have prior commitments, so it looks like they chose 1 but they in reality didn't.

What I do look for is certain nuggets that are hard to find. For ex: 3 years ago I crushed R Violette FTS who were winning like hotcakes. Many had M Franco up.

I once saw a spill at the BIG A and happened to be near some EMTs. They radio'd their buddies to ask them if they needed help. The other side of the radio said: The rider of the 4 said : PICK ME UP! I need to win the next race or something like that. Chuckle chuckle, he's ok.

It was Manny Franco and he won the next race on a Violette FTS that I liked but pounded extra on when I heard that :lol: Paid 2/1 and was a 7 horse if I remember correctly.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Sometimes I think that jockeys get in the way of the horse's chances for victory....they might go in with a preconceived notion or trainer's instructions to rate or do such and such...sometimes horses are just horses and want to run...so just let them, like Terra Promesa the other day...just let her run, and compete. She's the type of horse that can figure it out on her own...and many times when horse ACT dominant up front, the other horses sense this and just give up without trying anyway...let the horse run next time and see where she finishes on her own...

[no breathalyzer]

Never bet serious $$$ on a sub par jockey period! I have a do not bet list as well... burned too many times betting weak ass jockeys. I hear people say doing this cost you money in the long run.. simply is not true. Someone on here states in blackjack you don't have to hit, in poker you don't have to call, and in horse racing you don't have to bet. I simply just pass the race with a bs jockey aboard as a general rule... exception being im getting 5x's what i think are fair odds'

Jockeys control this game... if you think other wise you are misinformed.

[Broad Brush]

Of all of the factors that go into looking at a race, I think who is riding
is one the least important.

I always prefer that a "low profile" jock is riding a horse I like just
because of the odds. I will take Eric Cancel at 10/1 over Irad
on the same horse at 6/1 all day long.

There are some situations that is does matter though:

1. While EDM is correct about jocks having prior commitments,
if Rudy Rod has two horses in a race--the one that Irad is NOT
on almost never wins.
2. If a big time jock takes a mount on a horse early in the card and
they don't have a mount for a few races after that, can be important.
The same is true if they don't have a mount in the last few races
but they stay to ride a maiden claimer in the last can also matter.
3. If a big time jock takes a mount on a questionable drop-down,
the horse is not on the verge of a break-down. Last year, J. R. Velazquez
(who has been limiting his mounts) rode a horse for Repole/Bruce Levine
early on the card. The horse was dropping from $50,000 to
$16,000. This horse had the look of a sore horse---he galloped.
4. I also watch when certain low profile trainers use a specific jock for a horse's 2nd race after the horse did nothing in their first start--the horse is live today.

[no breathalyzer]

Of all of the factors that go into looking at a race, I think who is riding
is one the least important.

I always prefer that a "low profile" jock is riding a horse I like just
because of the odds. I will take Eric Cancel at 10/1 over Irad
on the same horse at 6/1 all day long.

There are some situations that is does matter though:

1. While EDM is correct about jocks having prior commitments,
if Rudy Rod has two horses in a race--the one that Irad is NOT
on almost never wins.
2. If a big time jock takes a mount on a horse early in the card and
they don't have a mount for a few races after that, can be important.
The same is true if they don't have a mount in the last few races
but they stay to ride a maiden claimer in the last can also matter.
3. If a big time jock takes a mount on a questionable drop-down,
the horse is not on the verge of a break-down. Last year, J. R. Velazquez
(who has been limiting his mounts) rode a horse for Repole/Bruce Levine
early on the card. The horse was dropping from $50,000 to
$16,000. This horse had the look of a sore horse---he galloped.
4. I also watch when certain low profile trainers use a specific jock for a horse's 2nd race after the horse did nothing in their first start--the horse is live today.

Good point here.. a low profile jockey is a good thing.. plenty of very solid riders out there still under the radar

[HalvOnHorseracing]

1. Jockeys are more likely to make a riding mistake and cause a horse to lose than get a horse that was not a top contender to win. I'd say 90+ per cent of the time, if the jockey has a brilliant ride it was a horse that figured to be competitive. I just think I far more often say, why didn't he take that speed horse to the lead, why did he get boxed on the rail, etc. Because let's be serious. It couldn't be I made a bad pick.

2. It's still 90% horse. A great jock and a great horse are a great bet. But a great jock on a bad horse is still a bad bet.

3. A jock that has successfully ridden a horse previously is fine for me, even if it isn't a "top jock."

4. If a trainer has a pattern of using a particular jock when he wants a win, that is worth noticing.

5. Most often the best jockeys get the best horses. When top jock goes to a lesser trainer, if I think that horse is competitive, I'll give it slightly more consideration.

6. I'll pay attention to the horse a jockey chooses when he has a choice of horses, unless he's forced to pick his contract stable.

7. It is only rarely that a jockey choice will sway me on or off a horse. I've never given the jockey really high "weight" in my handicapping.

[no breathalyzer]

1. Jockeys are more likely to make a riding mistake and cause a horse to lose than get a horse that was not a top contender to win. I'd say 90+ per cent of the time, if the jockey has a brilliant ride it was a horse that figured to be competitive. I just think I far more often say, why didn't he take that speed horse to the lead, why did he get boxed on the rail, etc. Because let's be serious. It couldn't be I made a bad pick.

2. It's still 90% horse. A great jock and a great horse are a great bet. But a great jock on a bad horse is still a bad bet.

3. A jock that has successfully ridden a horse previously is fine for me, even if it isn't a "top jock."

4. If a trainer has a pattern of using a particular jock when he wants a win, that is worth noticing.

5. Most often the best jockeys get the best horses. When top jock goes to a lesser trainer, if I think that horse is competitive, I'll give it slightly more consideration.

6. I'll pay attention to the horse a jockey chooses when he has a choice of horses, unless he's forced to pick his contract stable.

7. It is only rarely that a jockey choice will sway me on or off a horse. I've never given the jockey really high "weight" in my handicapping.

1.a bad jockey or sub par jockey on a good horse is still negative ev

2.Best jockeys get the best horses and top trainers because jockey matters!

As stated before.. knowing jockey tendencies is just as important... nothing is as valuable as a sharp rider under the public's radar

[no breathalyzer]

when Kent fell of the wagon a couple yrs back and went to ride at Arlington.. he straight up crushed it riding for lower profile barns... He ran circles around these fools here

[Run Nicholas Run]

Never bet serious $$$ on a sub par jockey period! I have a do not bet list as well... burned too many times betting weak ass jockeys. I hear people say doing this cost you money in the long run.. simply is not true. Someone on here states in blackjack you don't have to hit, in poker you don't have to call, and in horse racing you don't have to bet. I simply just pass the race with a bs jockey aboard as a general rule... exception being im getting 5x's what i think are fair odds'

Jockeys control this game... if you think other wise you are misinformed.


You are so right, I always used to say to anyone who told me riders
dont mean a thing is go ahead and bet on riders like:
tyrone cater
patricia grana
yiri paterka
vince montano

and see how that works out for you.

[EasyGoer89]

You are so right, I always used to say to anyone who told me riders
dont mean a thing is go ahead and bet on riders like:
tyrone cater
patricia grana
yiri paterka
vince montano

and see how that works out for you.

You're never betting ON 'riders' you're betting on bets.

I LOVE betting on bets that are being guided by 'bad' pilots, ill take the price and hope the horse can overcome the pilot.

[Run Nicholas Run]

You're never betting ON 'riders' you're betting on bets.

I LOVE betting on bets that are being guided by 'bad' pilots, ill take the price and hope the horse can overcome the pilot.

you enjoy winning at a five percent clip then.

[Robert Fischer]

There is the overall quality of jock, there are signals of intent by owner/trainer, there are style characteristics or traits that potentially relate to pace decisions


another category of tools that you try to use if/when applicable

[Murph]

There is the overall quality of jock, there are signals of intent by owner/trainer, there are style characteristics or traits that potentially relate to pace decisions


another category of tools that you try to use if/when applicableI don't like to criticize jockeys but I DO rate them. I use a letter grade system that is subject to my opinions.

My list has 50 to 100 names depending on time of year and number of tracks running. A riders are from the top national rankings and most consistently have the top level mounts in graded stakes. Usually 6 to 10 A riders on the list.

B riders are the jockeys who appear alert and competitive day in and day out. They will usually be a top 10 rider on their local circuit and will have shipped and won in the past 12 months among other positive signs. Jose Ortiz jr, Ramon Hernandez and Paco Lopez are examples of B rated riders on my list.

C riders are the average riders we have filling our fields every day. They work hard and try hard but for whatever reason find themselves in difficult positions because they have been out ridden by a B jock. They to often check into a wall, find their mount pinned or boxed on the inside or they like to fan 5-6 paths wide ect.

F rated riders are the auto toss list. I don't like for this category to get too large lest I do miss a couple long ones.

D riders are a special category I call dead or deadman. These riders have proven to torch MY tickets in ways I do not understand more than twice. I try to keep this list at 1% or 2% of the total on my list. Currently I rate two riders with a deadman tag. Jack Gilligan and Irad Ortiz.

[ultracapper]

I always know who the jocks in the race are, who they're riding for, and whether there have been some moving around. Sometimes something in there might matter for one reason or another, sometimes not. Pretty vague, but I'm not making any rules concerning jockeys.

Watch a lot of races. Know which ones screw up less than others, and be aware of trainer/jockey relationships.

[Elliott Sidewater]

Not much, but there are a few horses here and there that will only put forth their best effort for a particular rider. If a horse is claimed and the new trainer breaks his usual choice of rider to have the right jockey on his horse, that is worthy of my attention. In general, though, putting the jockey before the horse is not good practice in my opinion.

[fellowmen]

How much weight do you give to the jocks riding horses? Does anyone have a list of what certain jocks do well with certain types or horses RE: Paco Lopez is aggressive. The ride Irad gave Terra Promessa prompted this thread. If you had money on her you were probably cursing him for a little while. So do the jocks figure in you're capping? If so to what extent. What are some good or bad qualities of certain jocks?


It seems to me if you feel the rider is foremost in your handicapping process for a certain contest or maybe even the deciding factor, the best track for this angle is Saratoga. But on the other-hand a good percentage of the pools are being filled by uninformed players doing just that. So playing against a weak favorite ridden by the Ortiz brothers Javier or Johnny V might give you some added value. I will call it the Spa rider paradox. But i have to admit ive boxed a a superfecta with the Ortiz2-joel-junior-johnny-and Javier than once.

[no breathalyzer]

I don't like to criticize jockeys but I DO rate them. I use a letter grade system that is subject to my opinions.

My list has 50 to 100 names depending on time of year and number of tracks running. A riders are from the top national rankings and most consistently have the top level mounts in graded stakes. Usually 6 to 10 A riders on the list.

B riders are the jockeys who appear alert and competitive day in and day out. They will usually be a top 10 rider on their local circuit and will have shipped and won in the past 12 months among other positive signs. Jose Ortiz jr, Ramon Hernandez and Paco Lopez are examples of B rated riders on my list.

C riders are the average riders we have filling our fields every day. They work hard and try hard but for whatever reason find themselves in difficult positions because they have been out ridden by a B jock. They to often check into a wall, find their mount pinned or boxed on the inside or they like to fan 5-6 paths wide ect.

F rated riders are the auto toss list. I don't like for this category to get too large lest I do miss a couple long ones.

D riders are a special category I call dead or deadman. These riders have proven to torch MY tickets in ways I do not understand more than twice. I try to keep this list at 1% or 2% of the total on my list. Currently I rate two riders with a deadman tag. Jack Gilligan and Irad Ortiz.

I'm a bit surprised you rate this kid with a deadman tag.. i think isn't all that bad i actually kind of like.

In NY Dilly and Lizzy get dead man tags.. they win my ticket pretty much is torched

[Vince Stone]

Can anyone give a list, doesn't matter how big or small, of some riders that do a particular thing well? Ex. Good Aggressive riders, good finishers, who you would want on you're speed horse etc

[EMD4ME]

Can anyone give a list, doesn't matter how big or small, of some riders that do a particular thing well? Ex. Good Aggressive riders, good finishers, who you would want on you're speed horse etc

IRAD on a rating horse / closer.
Johnny V on a horse who needs to race uncovered 3-4 wide
Cc Lopez on speed
Carmouch on speed
Rocco Bowen on dirt, any horse
Joel Rosario on chalk that I bet against
Manny franco if I need a hard drive in the lane

[hracingplyr]

Had said several times that its the horse that wins 60% of the time. the only thing the jockey can possibly do is screw up the race. I really don't remember Mr. Jerkins using many name jocks.


Bob

[ultracapper]

Can anyone give a list, doesn't matter how big or small, of some riders that do a particular thing well? Ex. Good Aggressive riders, good finishers, who you would want on you're speed horse etc

Corey Nakatani on Santa Anita's downhill turf sprint course. He's worth 5 lengths to his mount. Trips are everything in those sprints, and Nakatani has all the angles and lanes figured to a fine "T". TBaze is getting very good at this trip also. Also, TBAZE on mid-field to pulling up the rear closers. He's very, very good at saving ground and getting his horse in striking distance at the 3/16ths pole. For years now, TBaze has also become much more efficient on the W2W type runners. He shows great patience and almost a fearlessness in allowing stalkers to get very, very close to being even with his mount, but then just keeps enough into his mount to just keep those nostrils in front. From there, I've seen many a mount of his start to restretch the lead back out inside the 1/8th pole.

Both Nakatani and TBaze are very good jockeys. Nakatani maybe a smidge better, but they're both very good.

[magwell]

Three type of jocks 1. Great jock, like Ramon can help a horse to win ..... 2. average or capable jock, aka a passenger wins if the horse is best ...3. bad jock will get the best horse beat aka human anchor ...........:)

[Murph]

I'm a bit surprised you rate this kid with a deadman tag.. i think isn't all that bad i actually kind of like.

In NY Dilly and Lizzy get dead man tags.. they win my ticket pretty much is torchedJG is one that I am never on the right side of. When he loses I don't understand why too often, when he wins it seems like I should have been on that one. He gets the D because I always need to take a PASS/PLAY look when he is in. I should probably study closer for his best running style matches and and posts and look closer at replays, study connections ect. When I do what I've done in the past it's not working for me. So I keep looking.

[Murph]

Can anyone give a list, doesn't matter how big or small, of some riders that do a particular thing well? Ex. Good Aggressive riders, good finishers, who you would want on you're speed horse etcThere is a list for you, Vince. The top 10 riders are predisposed to win graded stakes races.

http://www.equibase.com/stats/View.cfm?tf=year&tb=jockey

[Vince Stone]

Thanks all for the replies

[MonmouthParkJoe]

IRAD on a rating horse / closer.
Johnny V on a horse who needs to race uncovered 3-4 wide
Cc Lopez on speed
Carmouch on speed
Rocco Bowen on dirt, any horse
Joel Rosario on chalk that I bet against
Manny franco if I need a hard drive in the lane

This right here! I know not everyone is a fan of J. Ort, but I think he has a better sense of pace in his head, more so than his brother which is why i agree with Irad here.

CC Lopez is one of my favorites on speed. Paco on anything at monmouth :D

Bravo on any horse in a turf sprint that needs to be six wide on the far turn :D

[no breathalyzer]

i want to say John McKee: lol::lol::lol::lol: this gut needs to quit the game.. bytheway he is on the do not bet list

[no breathalyzer]

Bet non hungry jockeys at your own risk... classic example in the last at tp.... disgraceful ... act like you want it son... guy act like he was on a 1/5 shoot .. for the record i didn't lose a dime on this race...

[no breathalyzer]

any jockey that is hungry and can finish wins by 3 lengths min there... jockey don't matter tho :rolleyes:

[rsetup]

Johnny V on a horse who needs to race uncovered 3-4 wide



B, bu, but: EVERY HORSE needs to race wide and uncovered in JV's mind.

It's been going on for, probably 10 years now and he's thus had plenty of time to acclimate to it but I can only imagine what goes through Cordero's mind every time he witness once of JV's 'special' rides. Especially given that JV pretty much can't outfinish anyone anymore.

[no breathalyzer]

B, bu, but: EVERY HORSE needs to race wide and uncovered in JV's mind.

It's been going on for, probably 10 years now and he's thus had plenty of time to acclimate to it but I can only imagine what goes through Cordero's mind every time he witness once of JV's 'special' rides. Especially given that JV pretty much can't outfinish anyone anymore.

Only when he is 100% live and hungry... then the fountain of youth kicks in

[no breathalyzer]

Emmanuel Esquivel now here is a very talented hungry jockey ... put this in mind later on this yr when he pops the fatties now your throut

[paddy79]

I think a really good angle to look at is horses who are getting a jockey change. If they've been ridden by a jockey who is very low percentage in terms of wins and now they are being ridden by a jockey who is high percentage and is a talented jock. I have made money using this handicapping technique. Some jockeys really are poor.

[no breathalyzer]

I think a really good angle to look at is horses who are getting a jockey change. If they've been ridden by a jockey who is very low percentage in terms of wins and now they are being ridden by a jockey who is high percentage and is a talented jock. I have made money using this handicapping technique. Some jockeys really are poor. More jockeys are really poor then it is conceived by the average public is the point i been trying to make.. as a true trip handicapper this really isn't hard to fathom

[no breathalyzer]

To set the record straight when you bet a subpar jockey you should never cry a bad ride after the fact... that's the change you take betting that bs.... The most important thing is to be honest with yourself and not be quick to bash the jockeys ride for bad capping when you lose... that is unacceptable!

[whisperlunch]

Guys and gals the jock angle is so overrated. It's all about the horse. Can the jock screw up and cost the race sure but it's impossible to predict that.
Focus on the horsE. Best horse will overcome a bonehead ride

[EMD4ME]

Guys and gals the jock angle is so overrated. It's all about the horse. Can the jock screw up and cost the race sure but it's impossible to predict that.
Focus on the horsE. Best horse will overcome a bonehead ride

I made a ton on Beach Hut in AQU's last race friday BECAUSE her last ride was so bad, that she couldn't overcome it.

I have a list of horses that runs so long, the notepad is out of room that got such bad rides, that they could not possibly overcome them.

I lost $21,000 on Bunyaan and Cornelio's poor ride 2 weeks back and a total of about $100,000 (running 2nd on horses that were slaughtered in terms of putrid rides) in a month on horses who were best but couldn't overcome the severity of the bad ride.

I completely disagree that the best horse will overcome a bonehead ride.

Now, with that said, it is vital that people (I agree No Breathalyzer) be HONEST with themselves. I see people blaming the jock for a loss, meanwhile the rider gave them a perfect ride. Hate that :bang:. You NEED to be able to know, almost exactly, how much the ride cost your horse/improved your horse's finishing position.

My humble 2 cents.

[EMD4ME]

B, bu, but: EVERY HORSE needs to race wide and uncovered in JV's mind.

It's been going on for, probably 10 years now and he's thus had plenty of time to acclimate to it but I can only imagine what goes through Cordero's mind every time he witness once of JV's 'special' rides. Especially given that JV pretty much can't outfinish anyone anymore.

:lol::lol:

I think it's been painfully obvious, that Johnny V just wants to retire in 1 piece. Hence the 3 wide tour of the track (that way if someone falls in front of him, he has time to react and if his mount goes down, others won't step on him) for the last, I don't know, 10 years :lol:

[Inner Dirt]

This right here! I know not everyone is a fan of J. Ort, but I think he has a better sense of pace in his head, more so than his brother which is why i agree with Irad here.

CC Lopez is one of my favorites on speed. Paco on anything at monmouth :D

Bravo on any horse in a turf sprint that needs to be six wide on the far turn :D

Since I love speed horses especially possible lone F's at a price Charles is my favorite jockey, period. Unfortunately he is my age, 56 and probably won't be riding much longer. What I don't like is when I believe I have a horse that should lead easily but a rival horse that has pace figures that put him a half dozen lengths off the early pace has switched to CC Lopez. I always worry Charles will spoil my party.

I don't pay much heed to jockeys unless they are extremely bad or have a glaring trait. I think the best advantage I ever took over a jockey situation was the later years of Bill Shoemaker, because of money issues he rode well after his skills had declined. He also was extremely gun shy and would not go through a hole unless it was wide enough to drive a cement truck through.
If he was on a deep closer he was a dead cinch to lose multiple lengths due to his riding style. His reputation from years gone by caused him to depress the odds of horses he road when he should have inflated them. He was great to bet against.

[Inner Dirt]

Guys and gals the jock angle is so overrated. It's all about the horse. Can the jock screw up and cost the race sure but it's impossible to predict that.
Focus on the horsE. Best horse will overcome a bonehead ride

A ridiculous early pace will cook even a champion. Horses are flesh and blood not machines. Go out to run a mile but sprint the first 100 yards full out and see what happens.

[whisperlunch]

Years ago Alex Solis was on top of his game in So Cal then he took a horrible spill
He got banged up pretty good he was out for i think 6 months +
When he returned he was never the same
Everyone would refer to him as chicken rider. So in this type of case I agree jockies can influence the race.

Im a believer that to get mounts at the major tracks the the jockey is not an issue. It's obvious the top jocks get the best horses that's why they are the leading jocks

I've always said don't let odds get you on or off a horse u like. Allow the odds to change the amount of bet. It's the same with a jockey.
Iggy puglesie I call the human boat anchor. If I like a horse with iggy I will adjust the amount

[Secondbest]

Guys and gals the jock angle is so overrated. It's all about the horse. Can the jock screw up and cost the race sure but it's impossible to predict that.
Focus on the horsE. Best horse will overcome a bonehead ride

Maybe. Do you think a JD Acosta or a Taylor Rice or Jilver Chamafi etc, would have been able to have the wherewithal to do what Mike Smith did with Arrogate?

[whisperlunch]

What did Mike smith do that was so great? The horse was squeezed back to last at the start. Jd Acosta has been squeezed at starts
the difference is Acosta has never ridden a beast like Arrogate

Mike smith is great but I think any jock that rides in so cal colony would win

Now would any jock riding will rogers downs colony ? I don't know

[Secondbest]

If you had one of the 3 favorites for the Santa Anita Derby who would you want riding your horse ,Brice Blanc or Kent Desormeaux.

[Secondbest]

What I'm trying to say is that race riding is like any other skilled job. Some people are better at it than others.

[whisperlunch]

If I owned a horse that was a triple crown or classic horse yes I'd want a top tier jock because of experience

But if I had a horse running at oaklawn with Jon court that all of a sudden started crushing horses I would not switch just to get a big name jock.

I'm curious if anyone else would switch jockeys ???

[JohnGalt1]

I want a good gate jockey on a speed horse.

A patient jockey on a closer.

And I absolutely want my jockey to read the pp's and understand what running style of his horse, and the running styles of the other horses.

[magwell]

If I owned a horse that was a triple crown or classic horse yes I'd want a top tier jock because of experience

But if I had a horse running at oaklawn with Jon court that all of a sudden started crushing horses I would not switch just to get a big name jock.

I'm curious if anyone else would switch jockeys ???I want the jock that can make a difference when the big money is on the line........:)

[f2tornado]

I have often tossed in a top jock in my tris and supers and done well doing so. I see Mike Smith and Gary Stevens bring home some absolute junk on paper. I figure there's a reason besides just having a mount they're on some of them.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

I'm curious if anyone else would switch jockeys ???

Nope.

[HuggingTheRail]

Nope.


I agree - if it ain't broke....

[betovernetcapper]

Whenever one of the leading jocs takes a mount from a weak trainer, it sparks my interest. Maybe the horse is much better then it looks on paper or the trainer is the "program trainer" for someone that may be banned for a period of time. Whatever the reason, it took some serious effort on the part of the trainer to convince the joc & his agent to take the ride.
A few months ago, I noticed a hot joc on a first starter for a trainer that looked hopeless. I looked up the trainer on Equibase & his 1st year as a trainer he made something like $200. He kept at it and in the middle of his career he had a minor stakes winner. Things went well for a few years and then he started going downhill. Anyway the fact that he developed a stakes horse & convinced a hot joc to take the mount, was enough for me to bet it. It won for fun and paid $12.6.
I've cashed a few this way.

[cnollfan]

I pay more attention to jockeys than I used to, but it's not necessarily in a linear "A is better than B" style. One of my favorite angles: top jockey rides an obscure longshot for a low percentage trainer and loses. Next time the horse is ridden by a lesser jockey. Love that horse. There's a story behind that horse to have gotten the top jock on to begin with. Even if it lost that race, the story is still relevant.

I also like the track's leading rider at a big price in a stakes race at that track. Haven't run the numbers but have seen a lot of big payoffs with this angle.

[whodoyoulike]

I think we should all focus on the horse's performance and possibilities in the current race. If the horse is one of your contenders and there is a jockey change then I see if the jockey is riding another in the race and if it makes sense.

There are probably a number of legit reasons for jockey changes e.g., prior commitments, owes a trainer a fav and/or maybe (s)he is looking to ride another horse in the trainer's stable etc. So, I don't think a lot of jockey changes are automatic negatives. A lot of times a top jock is just available.

So, what should a trainer who wants the best for himself and his connections to do?

JMO, it's usually just about the horse and I don't think you will be making a mistake.

[LottaKash]

My main expectation for any pilot, is that, if he is a serious contender in any given race, that that pilot will have him in a contending position when they finally straighten out and when they've turned that last corner, and begin the drive to the wire...

On the lead, off the pace or big wide, I don't really care how he got him to that spot, that is "his business".. The winningest ones know how to do this, with regularity...I leave it to them...

Saves a lot of, and often enough, some valuable and wasted time in the speculation of it....

[NorCalGreg]

Jockeys? I don't get it....

🥃

[Run Nicholas Run]

Years ago Alex Solis was on top of his game in So Cal then he took a horrible spill
He got banged up pretty good he was out for i think 6 months +
When he returned he was never the same
Everyone would refer to him as chicken rider. So in this type of case I agree jockies can influence the race.

Im a believer that to get mounts at the major tracks the the jockey is not an issue. It's obvious the top jocks get the best horses that's why they are the leading jocks

I've always said don't let odds get you on or off a horse u like. Allow the odds to change the amount of bet. It's the same with a jockey.
Iggy puglesie I call the human boat anchor. If I like a horse with iggy I will adjust the amount


iggy was the anchor as was pat day, jacinto vasquez and
harry vega was a sack of potatoes.