Linda Rice, Carlos Velasquez, Vina Del Mar Stable

[bello]

What do they all have in common.

Kid Cruz...draw your own conclusions

Linda...maybe drop in in for 10k up a Finger Lakes for his next race
Carlos...Maybe you need to whip harder around the first turn than you did today. That will show the old horse who is in charge
Vina Del Mar....Did he not earn enough for you?

[EMD4ME]

What do they all have in common.

Kid Cruz...draw your own conclusions

Linda...maybe drop in in for 10k up a Finger Lakes for his next race
Carlos...Maybe you need to whip harder around the first turn than you did today. That will show the old horse who is in charge
Vina Del Mar....Did he not earn enough for you?

I watched him get vanned off. Repulsive.

[EMD4ME]

If I were national racing czar, I would mandate that .50% of all earnings be placed into retirement 401K's for horses. In other words, retirement farms would get .50% of all purses (or a different %) to take care of the TRUE ATHLETES of this dirty game.

[sour grapes]

i think you can give linda rice a pass,over the years ive seen her take care of other trainers injured horses during training and even after a race,this was a drop to 40k to see if he would wake up,hopefully he will be able to enjoy a nice life in retirement.

[bello]

I watched him get vanned off. Repulsive.

I did not realize that.....As far as giving anyone a break, watch Cornelio beat the crap out of the horse going into the first turn like he was a quarter claimer.

All involved are repulsive.

[EMD4ME]

I did not realize that.....As far as giving anyone a break, watch Cornelio beat the crap out of the horse going into the first turn like he was a quarter claimer.

All involved are repulsive.

I wish I could smack that coconut him with a crop....:mad:

[elhelmete]

If I were national racing czar, I would mandate that .50% of all earnings be placed into retirement 401K's for horses. In other words, retirement farms would get .50% of all purses (or a different %) to take care of the TRUE ATHLETES of this dirty game.

Having all breakage get allocated to this cause mo betta.

[EMD4ME]

Having all breakage get allocated to this cause mo betta.

Sounds good to me :ThmbUp:

[SuperPickle]

I thought I'd share this so people can get real information since this thread has morphed into the typical PA thread of conjecture combined with finger pointing I'll try and add some real information...

http://www.paulickreport.com/horse-care-category/multiple-graded-stakes-winner-kid-cruz-bows-tendon-retired-breeder-machmer-hall/

A couple points...

1. The horse is fine and now retired which is most important.

2. He suffered a bowed tendon. I'm not a vet but I know enough to know these injuries are almost never linked to soreness or additional unsoundness. Obviously I can't prove he was sound prior to the race so the people/idiots who want to gaslight Linda Rice can continue to do it. Like anything was going to stop them.

3. I don't grasp the outrage for the horse running for $40k. He's obviously not competitive in stakes and he has no conditions left so this was the option. It's not like they ran him for $5k or even the basement tag at NYRA. The pearl clutching over someone running a horse they claimed for $50k for $40k is bonkers. Not to mention there's probably 10 horses on the NYRA circuit with over $500k in earnings running for cheaper.

4. The Cornelio ride stuff is flat out absurd. If you asked any jockey they would tell you there's a HUGE difference between hitting a horse aggressively late in the race who's given his run versus urging a drop out closer to try and stay closer in the opening furlongs. Cornelio wasn't abusing a tired animal. He was trying to get a horse with no speed to keep touch with the field. Go back and look at Mike Smith's rides on Drosselmeyer. He used to use the analogy of it's like riding a bike. Once you stop urging or petaling the bike doesn't move. It's pretty common to try and urge deep closers early in a race.

This thread just sucks. It's this person sucks. This person is repulsive. EMD telling you what he would do if was "national racing zsar."

Tune in tomorrow when I'll tell you what I would wear to Oscars if I was Brie Larson and PA himself will tell you what he would do if he was Tim Tetrick. Oh and also they'll be the unusual. Some straw grasping on race fixing, a couple rants about NYRA and some heat thrown at an Ortiz not named Yomar.

[bello]

The horse earned the owners and trainer plenty of money, They entered a tired animal and likely an unhealthy animal into a 45 k claimer to get him claimed which he actually was. The claim was nullified since he broke down. I am sure much t the chagrin of the connections. Had he not broken down he would have surely continued to drop down to the lowest levels as older broken down horses do in this game, in particular by the new connections who would have had him at charlestown before long.

I happen to be a bottom dweller in the tracks I bet and follow are mostly populated by old timers and slowpokes. I respect the trainers and owners keeping their marginal and slow horses healthy enough to race than I do a barn and trainer putting an obviously hurting animal and jamming into a claimer to get him claimed.

My opinions stands on the owner, trainer and jock. Obviously Pickle you disagree. These are opinions which is what the board is about I believe.

[EasyGoer89]

I thought I'd share this so people can get real information since this thread has morphed into the typical PA thread of conjecture combined with finger pointing I'll try and add some real information...

http://www.paulickreport.com/horse-care-category/multiple-graded-stakes-winner-kid-cruz-bows-tendon-retired-breeder-machmer-hall/

A couple points...

1. The horse is fine and now retired which is most important.

2. He suffered a bowed tendon. I'm not a vet but I know enough to know these injuries are almost never linked to soreness or additional unsoundness. Obviously I can't prove he was sound prior to the race so the people/idiots who want to gaslight Linda Rice can continue to do it. Like anything was going to stop them.

3. I don't grasp the outrage for the horse running for $40k. He's obviously not competitive in stakes and he has no conditions left so this was the option. It's not like they ran him for $5k or even the basement tag at NYRA. The pearl clutching over someone running a horse they claimed for $50k for $40k is bonkers. Not to mention there's probably 10 horses on the NYRA circuit with over $500k in earnings running for cheaper.

4. The Cornelio ride stuff is flat out absurd. If you asked any jockey they would tell you there's a HUGE difference between hitting a horse aggressively late in the race who's given his run versus urging a drop out closer to try and stay closer in the opening furlongs. Cornelio wasn't abusing a tired animal. He was trying to get a horse with no speed to keep touch with the field. Go back and look at Mike Smith's rides on Drosselmeyer. He used to use the analogy of it's like riding a bike. Once you stop urging or petaling the bike doesn't move. It's pretty common to try and urge deep closers early in a race.

This thread just sucks. It's this person sucks. This person is repulsive. EMD telling you what he would do if was "national racing zsar."

Tune in tomorrow when I'll tell you what I would wear to Oscars if I was Brie Larson and PA himself will tell you what he would do if he was Tim Tetrick. Oh and also they'll be the unusual. Some straw grasping on race fixing, a couple rants about NYRA and some heat thrown at an Ortiz not named Yomar.

Interestingly had no claims when you think a classy horse like this for 40 would have drawn plenty of attention.

[bello]

By the way Super Pickle if you took rime to watch the head on Cornelio was beating on the horse down the backstretch despite being 30 or 40 lengths behind and he even hit him after he broke down. Takes a special scumbag ro do that.

[Mr. Pick 5]

Interestingly had no claims when you think a classy horse like this for 40 would have drawn plenty of attention.

read that chatterpaul had a claim in but exercised the option to void the claim after he was vanned off.

[EasyGoer89]

read that chatterpaul had a claim in but exercised the option to void the claim after he was vanned off.

Thanks. I didn't realize NY had void claim rule

[ReplayRandall]

Interestingly had no claims when you think a classy horse like this for 40 would have drawn plenty of attention.

read that chatterpaul had a claim in but exercised the option to void the claim after he was vanned off.
Oh SRU, you sly dog, intentionally making a mistaken post, only to be corrected by "Mr. Pick 5"......yeah, you got us all fooled..:lol:

[EasyGoer89]

Oh SRU, you sly dog, intentionally making a mistaken post, only to be corrected by "Mr. Pick 5"......yeah, you got us all fooled..:lol:

Technically i was right, no official claims.

Love,

Mr pick 4 1/2

[Mr. Pick 5]

Oh SRU, you sly dog, intentionally making a mistaken post, only to be corrected by "Mr. Pick 5"......yeah, you got us all fooled..:lol:

Unfortunately when some reach a certain age, dementia begins to set in :eek:

[ReplayRandall]

Unfortunately when some reach a certain age, dementia begins to set in :eek:
Funny stuff Ms. Pick 5....

[EMD4ME]

I swear they should make this PPV:lol::bang:

[Spalding No!]

I thought I'd share this so people can get real information since this thread has morphed into the typical PA thread of conjecture combined with finger pointing I'll try and add some real information...

1. The horse is fine and now retired which is most important.

2. He suffered a bowed tendon. I'm not a vet but I know enough to know these injuries are almost never linked to soreness or additional unsoundness. Obviously I can't prove he was sound prior to the race so the people/idiots who want to gaslight Linda Rice can continue to do it. Like anything was going to stop them.
You say the horse is fine and then in your next point say he suffered a bowed tendon. This is a contradiction.

A bowed tendon, especially an acute injury in the midst of a race is almost certainly linked to pain and lameness. That's why he was pulled up and that's why he was vanned off. Just because the horse wasn't destroyed or that it may even be able to return to the races (after months to years of layup time) does not mean that it is a pain-free condition.

In fact, the old adage at the racetrack is that the best treatment for a bowed tendon is a change of owners. Its that sort of behavior that has been tacitly approved by horsemen for decades with respect to claiming horses and the very reason why jurisdictions one-by-one are implementing new "voided claim" rules.

3. I don't grasp the outrage for the horse running for $40k. He's obviously not competitive in stakes and he has no conditions left so this was the option. It's not like they ran him for $5k or even the basement tag at NYRA. The pearl clutching over someone running a horse they claimed for $50k for $40k is bonkers. Not to mention there's probably 10 horses on the NYRA circuit with over $500k in earnings running for cheaper.
The fact that a former classic starter (Preakness, Travers) is dropped into claiming races less than a year removed from a graded stakes victory (Excelsior) is certainly cause for some people to be outraged. If not for the horse, then at least for the image of horse racing and its ability or willingness to "take care of its own".

This Kid Cruz story tries to spin towards this latter idea, but its a bit late when the horse has already suffered a major injury and is vanned off in pain. While the breeder who took the horse back should certainly be lauded, the active agents of the horse should receive no applause in this. If Kid Cruz was already uncompetitive or worse if they knew about his tendon issue prior to the race, then all this story says is that it was worth more to them to collect $40K then it was to give the horse back to its breeder beforehand. It took a bowed tendon (and a voided claim) for them to take the appropriate path.

Read bello's comments regarding why dropping into claiming races, even at a mid-range level like $40K is cause for outrage. It signals the slow (or sometimes rapid) descent of a top class racehorse towards the bottom. How many more stories about horses like Bluestthestandard, Manzante, Homeboykris, Camp Victory, Juniper Pass, Lang Field, Midnight Hawk, Tweebster, Cost of Freedom, Captain Serious, Futural, etc. are needed before Micky needs to cut Racing's ever-swelling black eye?

[PaceAdvantage]

I have a question for the OP...who the hell is Carlos Velasquez?

[onefast99]

I have a question for the OP...who the hell is Carlos Velasquez?I believe he is a local legend who once went by another name but to protect the innocent the name "Carlos" was inserted.

[onefast99]

Technically i was right, no official claims.

Love,

Mr pick 4 1/2
All claims are deemed official, the trainer used the void claim rule to remove himself from any and all association from the horse once he met the void rule. Good spin...

[EMD4ME]

You say the horse is fine and then in your next point say he suffered a bowed tendon. This is a contradiction.

A bowed tendon, especially an acute injury in the midst of a race is almost certainly linked to pain and lameness. That's why he was pulled up and that's why he was vanned off. Just because the horse wasn't destroyed or that it may even be able to return to the races (after months to years of layup time) does not mean that it is a pain-free condition.

In fact, the old adage at the racetrack is that the best treatment for a bowed tendon is a change of owners. Its that sort of behavior that has been tacitly approved by horsemen for decades with respect to claiming horses and the very reason why jurisdictions one-by-one are implementing new "voided claim" rules.


The fact that a former classic starter (Preakness, Travers) is dropped into claiming races less than a year removed from a graded stakes victory (Excelsior) is certainly cause for some people to be outraged. If not for the horse, then at least for the image of horse racing and its ability or willingness to "take care of its own".

This Kid Cruz story tries to spin towards this latter idea, but its a bit late when the horse has already suffered a major injury and is vanned off in pain. While the breeder who took the horse back should certainly be lauded, the active agents of the horse should receive no applause in this. If Kid Cruz was already uncompetitive or worse if they knew about his tendon issue prior to the race, then all this story says is that it was worth more to them to collect $40K then it was to give the horse back to its breeder beforehand. It took a bowed tendon (and a voided claim) for them to take the appropriate path.

Read bello's comments regarding why dropping into claiming races, even at a mid-range level like $40K is cause for outrage. It signals the slow (or sometimes rapid) descent of a top class racehorse towards the bottom. How many more stories about horses like Bluestthestandard, Manzante, Homeboykris, Camp Victory, Juniper Pass, Lang Field, Midnight Hawk, Tweebster, Cost of Freedom, Captain Serious, Futural, etc. are needed before Micky needs to cut Racing's ever-swelling black eye?

Hey Super pickle ..... what Spalding no SAID ! :lol:

(Picture me standing behind Spalding No :lol:)

[SG4]

Unfortunate circumstance about Kid Cruz, he hasn't been the same horse for quite awhile & the claiming drop was certainly a red flag.

However, I've got to give Cornelio a pass for his riding early in the race - I don't think there's been a horse that needed more early motivation on the NYRA circuit over the last few years than Kid Cruz, watch his races even when he was good & he was often being hustled hard or whipped well in advance than what is usually expected. Some of the actions into the stretch were curious/unfortunate though.

[Fager Fan]

It's rare for a bowed tendon to occur in a race without preceding injury to the tendon. I'd have to suspect that he had the tendon entering the race and his connections therefore knew. Tendons are most always caught in training far earlier, with good trainers catching them very early.

[EasyGoer89]

All claims are deemed official, the trainer used the void claim rule to remove himself from any and all association from the horse once he met the void rule. Good spin...

Nothing's official till we say it's official

-bluto blutarsky

[bello]

I have a question for the OP...who the hell is Carlos Velasquez?

Ha, I did say Cornelio in a latter post. Just starting my own therapy for a bilateral quad tendon rupture so I feel for the horse. My Physical Therapist told me to stop being macho and take some pain pills. I did just before that post.

Thanks for pointing out the error.

[onefast99]

Nothing's official till we say it's official

-bluto blutarsky
My sons frat house looks exactly like Delta Tau Chi lol.

[SuperPickle]

The fact that a former classic starter (Preakness, Travers) is dropped into claiming races less than a year removed from a graded stakes victory (Excelsior) is certainly cause for some people to be outraged. If not for the horse, then at least for the image of horse racing and its ability or willingness to "take care of its own".

This Kid Cruz story tries to spin towards this latter idea, but its a bit late when the horse has already suffered a major injury and is vanned off in pain. While the breeder who took the horse back should certainly be lauded, the active agents of the horse should receive no applause in this. If Kid Cruz was already uncompetitive or worse if they knew about his tendon issue prior to the race, then all this story says is that it was worth more to them to collect $40K then it was to give the horse back to its breeder beforehand. It took a bowed tendon (and a voided claim) for them to take the appropriate path.

Read bello's comments regarding why dropping into claiming races, even at a mid-range level like $40K is cause for outrage. It signals the slow (or sometimes rapid) descent of a top class racehorse towards the bottom. How many more stories about horses like Bluestthestandard, Manzante, Homeboykris, Camp Victory, Juniper Pass, Lang Field, Midnight Hawk, Tweebster, Cost of Freedom, Captain Serious, Futural, etc. are needed before Micky needs to cut Racing's ever-swelling black eye?


I'm kind of disappointed to see the guy who's probably the best poster on here bring a rare weak post.

First off if there's justifiable outrage for horses going from a listed or graded 3 stake in 2016 to a $40k claimer in 2017 than you must be in a constant state of outrage because this happens all the time. Simply put there's no reason to be upset by this. And if you're upset about this I suggest that horse racing isn't the game for you.

Second, you are totally projecting. You're arguing that running for $40k is the start of a downward spiral. That $40k is a gateway drug with Kid Cruz eventually running for $4k at Finger Lakes.

This argument simply disappoints me. You have a deep knowledge of the game. I have I deep knowledge of this game. Most people on here do not. So you paint broad brushed takes which are generally awful.

I'm pretty familiar with Linda Rice's career. I'm pretty familiar with Cornelio's too. Given your deep knowledge of the sport I'm assuming you do too. When has Linda Rice dumped a hurt/sore horse in a cheap claiming racing? Because in the thousands of starts over 30 years I'm pretty certain she hasn't unless you can name one I missed. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. In fact I know with certainty she's arranged for multiple horses she used to train go to both Old Friends. I think she has a pretty long history of being a responsible horsewoman.

So on Linda Rice I'm going to use her body of work and 30+ years in the sport to formulate a fact based opinion vs behaving like one of these bozos.

In short Linda Rice is not David Jacobson. She's not Burton Sipp.

I wish more people had the knowledge to differentiate that fact but here at PA we generally shoot first and ask details later.

[SuperPickle]

Hey Super pickle ..... what Spalding no SAID ! :lol:

(Picture me standing behind Spalding No :lol:)

Friday you argued against contraction. You dismissed the concept of too many tracks putting a strain on a limited and declining horse population and leading to injuries and death. Sunday you referred to someone running a stakes horse in a $40k claimer "repulsive."

Saturday you stated Irad Ortiz should be banned for like for not being aggressive off the break and getting a horse in proper position. Sunday you declared a similar penalty should be given to Cornelio for whipping a deep closer in the opening furlongs of a race to try and keep contact with the field.

Your train of thought has the continuity of about an 8-year-old.

Literally the best argument against EMD's posts is EMD's other posts.

[EMD4ME]

Superpickle, how would you feel if you were a horse , an only child horse and this poor horse that Linda had was your dad?

All it takes is for her to have 1 horse she is trying to dump for $40,000 and then she is just like DJ. 1. Just 1. You either have moral compass or you don't.


They could've called the breeder before the start for $40,000 but they repulsively tried to squeeze the $40K out.

Cornelio did his hardest to make sure he ran a race, didn't matter if he lost by 20 but just finish the damn race.

You didn't watch poor Kid Cruz get on the van but I did....

[EasyGoer89]

I'm kind of disappointed to see the guy who's probably the best poster on here bring a rare weak post.

First off if there's justifiable outrage for horses going from a listed or graded 3 stake in 2016 to a $40k claimer in 2017 than you must be in a constant state of outrage because this happens all the time. Simply put there's no reason to be upset by this. And if you're upset about this I suggest that horse racing isn't the game for you.

Second, you are totally projecting. You're arguing that running for $40k is the start of a downward spiral. That $40k is a gateway drug with Kid Cruz eventually running for $4k at Finger Lakes.

This argument simply disappoints me. You have a deep knowledge of the game. I have I deep knowledge of this game. Most people on here do not. So you paint broad brushed takes which are generally awful.

I'm pretty familiar with Linda Rice's career. I'm pretty familiar with Cornelio's too. Given your deep knowledge of the sport I'm assuming you do too. When has Linda Rice dumped a hurt/sore horse in a cheap claiming racing? Because in the thousands of starts over 30 years I'm pretty certain she hasn't unless you can name one I missed. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. In fact I know with certainty she's arranged for multiple horses she used to train go to both Old Friends. I think she has a pretty long history of being a responsible horsewoman.

So on Linda Rice I'm going to use her body of work and 30+ years in the sport to formulate a fact based opinion vs behaving like one of these bozos.

In short Linda Rice is not David Jacobson. She's not Burton Sipp.

I wish more people had the knowledge to differentiate that fact but here at PA we generally shoot first and ask details later.

I think it really comes down to if people knew this was a flawed horse. If he's not flawed and just 'got slower' he might have had all the top claiming barns shaking for him, he wasnt bad in his previous race as he seemed to be keeping up well to some horses worth much more than 40.

If all the top claiming outfits passed on this horse it wasnt due to replay as the horse looked fine last time, but was just outrun by better.

Why pass? He seemed like a pretty classy acquisition for 40.

[EMD4ME]

1) Friday you argued against contraction. You dismissed the concept of too many tracks putting a strain on a limited and declining horse population and leading to injuries and death. Sunday you referred to someone running a stakes horse in a $40k claimer "repulsive."

2) Saturday you stated Irad Ortiz should be banned for like for not being aggressive off the break and getting a horse in proper position. Sunday you declared a similar penalty should be given to Cornelio for whipping a deep closer in the opening furlongs of a race to try and keep contact with the field.

Your train of thought has the continuity of about an 8-year-old.

Literally the best argument against EMD's posts is EMD's other posts.

Dude, you're sounding like a desperate track exec looking to save face.

The way you just twisted my words about totally DIFFERENT situations make you sound like a vile soul. Honestly, we agree to disagree and I couldn't care less but I seriously feel embarrassed to even engage in conversation with someone of your ilk. I want to shower as I type a response to you. It's that bad.

To answer your disgusting post:


1) I don't believe in contraction. I believe that contraction will reduce the # of owners, trainers, riders and horses and they will not be replaced. I also believe that when current horseplayers in Boston, upstate NY and other places that lose horse racing, will never be replaced, hence total handle dropping and the game dying if contraction takes place.

That doesn't mean that I WANT A SINGLE HORSE RUNNING WHEN THEY ARE SICK, LAME OR INJURED.

How your sick butt can connect or infer the 2 is simply disgusting.

2) I've watched Jose and Irad and what they do for countless man hours. We have a 1/5 lone speed choked to death in a race where all the payoffs came back small and a bridgejumper was burned. HMMMMM.....Chee I wonder if anything was up with that....:rolleyes:

Yes, Cornelio wasn't whipping a deep closer to stay with the field !!!! THE SCUMBAG WHIPPED THE HORSE 8 TIMES (ON CAMERA and there is a 5 second lapse in between where he could've whipped the horse another 2-4 times) FROM THE 1/2 TO THE 3/8.


Dude, you seriously make me want to VOMMIT :puke::puke::puke:. Seriously....what if Kid Cruz was your dad and you were a horse.

What if KId Cruz was raised by your dad or mom at Machmer Hall farm and your dad passed but you were awaiting his return to Machmer Hall farm (as you worked there) as Kid Cruz was a reminder of your father AND you found out he broke down as he was dropped to a 40 claimer in the winter at AQU?????? How would you feel if Kid Cruz died as your farm had an arrangement with any owner to take him in when his racing days are over?????

My train of thought is 10000000000000000000% rational for each individual case.

The argument you make is similar to that of a desperate attorney of a mass terrorist or murderer. You're reaching and it's PATHETIC.

I used to respect your opinions but simply disagreed. Now I lost my respect for you. You are sad....

[EMD4ME]

I think it really comes down to if people knew this was a flawed horse. If he's not flawed and just 'got slower' he might have had all the top claiming barns shaking for him, he wasnt bad in his previous race as he seemed to be keeping up well to some horses worth much more than 40.

If all the top claiming outfits passed on this horse it wasnt due to replay as the horse looked fine last time, but was just outrun by better.

Why pass? He seemed like a pretty classy acquisition for 40.

Because they probably knew he was done. No proof. Not an allegation but prospective buyers were scared.

Makes you wonder what the current connections knew :rolleyes:

[SuperPickle]

Superpickle, how would you feel if you were a horse , an only child horse and this poor horse that Linda had was your dad?

All it takes is for her to have 1 horse she is trying to dump for $40,000 and then she is just like DJ. 1. Just 1. You either have moral compass or you don't.


They could've called the breeder before the start for $40,000 but they repulsively tried to squeeze the $40K out.

Cornelio did his hardest to make sure he ran a race, didn't matter if he lost by 20 but just finish the damn race.

You didn't watch poor Kid Cruz get on the van but I did....

Typical EMD post filled with straw men, half truths and flat out lies.

The breeder didn't pay her $40k for the horse. He took him for free. You're lying.

You don't know she was trying to dump the horse. That's your narrative. You have zero evidence she wanted him claimed.

In addition to making up lies about someone with a pretty clean record. You're claiming she was trying to dump the horse and get him off her hands (which you have no evidence of but we know EMD sees things) you're also now stating she's incompetent because her big dump led to exactly one claim by a small barn.

Btw... I know you're horse racing knowledge is weak outside of handicapping but I'll give you a pro tip. $40k is generally the highest claiming tag NYRA runs that always fills year round. If your goal is to dump a horse you never do it for the highest tag because you're leaving no upside. People won't bite without upside. Hence why only one person dropped. So if she really wanted him out of barn $25k was probably the number. Someone like Gullo, Rudy or certainly Jacobson would have bit.

So in addition to finding Linda Rice "repulsive" you obviously think she sucks at playing the claiming game.

Honestly EMD your a great handicapper but if I gave a track to run or a horse to train I'd come back in six months to a bankrupt track and a dead horse.

Hasn't it occurred to you lately you kind of need to do a better job of staying in your lane as the kids say.

[SuperPickle]

Because they probably knew he was done. No proof. Not an allegation but prospective buyers were scared.

Makes you wonder what the current connections knew :rolleyes:

Or because there's no conditions for him over $40K outside of money allowance races or stakes.

I'm going to say you've never read a condition book.

Keep coming out of your lane EMD.

[EMD4ME]

Typical EMD post filled with straw men, half truths and flat out lies.

The breeder didn't pay her $40k for the horse. He took him for free. You're lying.

You don't know she was trying to dump the horse. That's your narrative. You have zero evidence she wanted him claimed.

In addition to making up lies about someone with a pretty clean record. You're claiming she was trying to dump the horse and get him off her hands (which you have no evidence of but we know EMD sees things) you're also now stating she's incompetent because her big dump led to exactly one claim by a small barn.

Btw... I know you're horse racing knowledge is weak outside of handicapping but I'll give you a pro tip. $40k is generally the highest claiming tag NYRA runs that always fills year round. If your goal is to dump a horse you never do it for the highest tag because you're leaving no upside. People won't bite without upside. Hence why only one person dropped. So if she really wanted him out of barn $25k was probably the number. Someone like Gullo, Rudy or certainly Jacobson would have bit.

So in addition to finding Linda Rice "repulsive" you obviously think she sucks at playing the claiming game.

Honestly EMD your a great handicapper but if I gave a track to run or a horse to train I'd come back in six months to a bankrupt track and a dead horse.

Hasn't it occurred to you lately you kind of need to do a better job of staying in your lane as the kids say.

I NEVER SAID THAT SP. What the heck are you talking about???

[EMD4ME]

Or because there's no conditions for him over $40K outside of money allowance races or stakes.

I'm going to say you've never read a condition book.

Keep coming out of your lane EMD.


March 26th, 100CL optional claimer.

https://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=CB-AQU-20170302-20170326D

:eek:

For Four Year Olds and Upward Which Have Never
Won $10,000 Three Times Other Than Maiden, Claiming, Starter, Or State Bred or Which Have
Never Won Four Races or Optional Claiming Price Of $100,000 or Which Have Not Won
$25,000 At A Mile Or Over Since November 1, 2016.


Oh by the way, he has not won a race at a mile or over since 11/1/16

[SuperPickle]

Dude, you're sounding like a desperate track exec looking to save face.

The way you just twisted my words about totally DIFFERENT situations make you sound like a vile soul. Honestly, we agree to disagree and I couldn't care less but I seriously feel embarrassed to even engage in conversation with someone of your ilk. I want to shower as I type a response to you. It's that bad.

To answer your disgusting post:


1) I don't believe in contraction. I believe that contraction will reduce the # of owners, trainers, riders and horses and they will not be replaced. I also believe that when current horseplayers in Boston, upstate NY and other places that lose horse racing, will never be replaced, hence total handle dropping and the game dying if contraction takes place.

That doesn't mean that I WANT A SINGLE HORSE RUNNING WHEN THEY ARE SICK, LAME OR INJURED.

How your sick butt can connect or infer the 2 is simply disgusting.


The short answer is yes you are. If you are against steps put in place to prevent it then of course you support. It's passive but still support.

You can't be stupid or naive enough to believe that carding lots of race dates put a strain on the horse population, incentives and encourages owners to run horses in spots that aren't healthy for the horse.

When you give a track dates they have to fill the entry box. You don't think that racing secretary pressures owners and trainers to race? For example Monmouth will start its meet with maybe less than 1,000 horses compared with recent years of 1,300 maybe 1,500. You don't think the 900 horses that show up will be raced more?

You're living a lie EMD. You're like the liquor store owner selling a drunk a bottle but then claiming he promotes safe driving and liver health. Only in his mind.

Own your dark side EMD.

[EMD4ME]

Super Pickle, I suggest you get out of the STUPID/BIASED TRACK EXECUTIVE LANE.


It's an unbecoming lane......Especially when you're dealing with better drivers who are conscientous about safety (very nice of them, don't you say?) while they whizz past you ;)

Still love ya :ThmbUp:

[EMD4ME]

The short answer is yes you are. If you are against steps put in place to prevent it then of course you support. It's passive but still support.

You can't be stupid or naive enough to believe that carding lots of race dates put a strain on the horse population, incentives and encourages owners to run horses in spots that aren't healthy for the horse.

When you give a track dates they have to fill the entry box. You don't think that racing secretary pressures owners and trainers to race? For example Monmouth will start its meet with maybe less than 1,000 horses compared with recent years of 1,300 maybe 1,500. You don't think the 900 horses that show up will be raced more?

You're living a lie EMD. You're like the liquor store owner selling a drunk a bottle but then claiming he promotes safe driving and liver health. Only in his mind.

Own your dark side EMD.

I know the following will be Greek or Chinese to you ( If you speak Greek or Chinese, please pick a different language :D) but...



IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME....



Build the right product from ALL perspectives.... That's the cure. That simple.

[SuperPickle]

[QUOTE=EMD4ME;2140109]March 26th, 100CL optional claimer.

https://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=CB-AQU-20170302-20170326D

:eek:

For Four Year Olds and Upward Which Have Never
Won $10,000 Three Times Other Than Maiden, Claiming, Starter, Or State Bred or Which Have
Never Won Four Races or Optional Claiming Price Of $100,000 or Which Have Not Won
$25,000 At A Mile Or Over Since November 1, 2016.


Yes that's a money allowance which is essentially a stakes race. Btw... there's probably a 50/50 chance it goes. Hence all the conditions written into it. And he probably couldn't win the race in his prime.

The million question is when has NYRA run what you would want if you claimed him which is a straight claimer over $40k? Like a $50k or $62,500 claimer? Belmont fall would be my guess?

Not very attractive to claim a horse who's needed condition hasn't been run in 5-6 months.

[EMD4ME]

[QUOTE=EMD4ME;2140109]March 26th, 100CL optional claimer.

https://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=CB-AQU-20170302-20170326D

:eek:

For Four Year Olds and Upward Which Have Never
Won $10,000 Three Times Other Than Maiden, Claiming, Starter, Or State Bred or Which Have
Never Won Four Races or Optional Claiming Price Of $100,000 or Which Have Not Won
$25,000 At A Mile Or Over Since November 1, 2016.


Yes that's a money allowance which is essentially a stakes race. Btw... there's probably a 50/50 chance it goes. Hence all the conditions written into it. And he probably couldn't win the race in his prime.

The million question is when has NYRA run what you would want if you claimed him which is a straight claimer over $40k? Like a $50k or $62,500 claimer? Belmont fall would be my guess?

Not very attractive to claim a horse who's needed condition hasn't been run in 5-6 months.

Stop it. You know the horse was done. Did you watch the replay at Lrl? It was sad....Real frieken sad. The 2nd finisher, came from right in front of Kid Cruz. If Cruz couldn't suck up along with that 2nd finisher, you knew the horse was DONE.

Next time out....it was a SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RR slow pace that kept him competitive.




Yes it was an extra race (substitute) but you know they had a horse in decline who deserved better.

Stop justifying it.

[SuperPickle]

I know the following will be Greek or Chinese to you ( If you speak Greek or Chinese, please pick a different language :D) but...



IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME....



Build the right product from ALL perspectives.... That's the cure. That simple.

So I've got an advanced business degree and I can't think of a successful long term, profitable business that opened up a bunch of national retail locations based on the concept people will adopt their business.

You got to understand it's tough to take your business ideas seriously when your business plan is the theme of the movie The Field of Dreams.

[EMD4ME]

To correct you on 1 of your attacks....


She knew the horse had a home.....All she had to say was he's done.


She made an attempt to sell him (VIA THE CLAIM BOX) for $40,000 before she brought him to a home he had for him.

You said that I said that she offered him to the breeder for $40,000. You know I didn't mean to the original breeder.........I SINCERELY DON'T APPRECIATE YOUR BOGUS attempt to say that I inferred that.

That was disgusting. As was Cornelio's ABUSE ON THE FAR TURN.

I love this game but THAT made me want to call PETA.

[EMD4ME]

So I've got an advanced business degree and I can't think of a successful long term, profitable business that opened up a bunch of national retail locations based on the concept people will adopt their business.

You got to understand it's tough to take your business ideas seriously when your business plan is the theme of the movie The Field of Dreams.

Knowing you, that was an attempt at reconciliation.....

Accepted, have a nice day Mega Pickle.

[EasyGoer89]

Because they probably knew he was done. No proof. Not an allegation but prospective buyers were scared.

Makes you wonder what the current connections knew :rolleyes:

I'm under the impression that all elite claiming trainers know 'inside scoop' on all horses in claiming races, did all top claiming outfits in NY just pass on a horse who had 'nothing wrong with him'?

Pickle?

[bello]

I'm kind of disappointed to see the guy who's probably the best poster on here bring a rare weak post.

First off if there's justifiable outrage for horses going from a listed or graded 3 stake in 2016 to a $40k claimer in 2017 than you must be in a constant state of outrage because this happens all the time. Simply put there's no reason to be upset by this. And if you're upset about this I suggest that horse racing isn't the game for you.

Second, you are totally projecting. You're arguing that running for $40k is the start of a downward spiral. That $40k is a gateway drug with Kid Cruz eventually running for $4k at Finger Lakes.

This argument simply disappoints me. You have a deep knowledge of the game. I have I deep knowledge of this game. Most people on here do not. So you paint broad brushed takes which are generally awful.

I'm pretty familiar with Linda Rice's career. I'm pretty familiar with Cornelio's too. Given your deep knowledge of the sport I'm assuming you do too. When has Linda Rice dumped a hurt/sore horse in a cheap claiming racing? Because in the thousands of starts over 30 years I'm pretty certain she hasn't unless you can name one I missed. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. In fact I know with certainty she's arranged for multiple horses she used to train go to both Old Friends. I think she has a pretty long history of being a responsible horsewoman.

So on Linda Rice I'm going to use her body of work and 30+ years in the sport to formulate a fact based opinion vs behaving like one of these bozos.

In short Linda Rice is not David Jacobson. She's not Burton Sipp.

I wish more people had the knowledge to differentiate that fact but here at PA we generally shoot first and ask details later.

Totally incorrect comment about Linda Rice....She has been shipping quite a few sore horses to Finger Lakes the last few years. How do I know? Let me give you some handicapping advice. Because they are always underlaid and should be played against. Classy only on paper, burnt out, sore or hurt when they take the trip up the thruway where they arre often odds on and lose. So stop the nonsense. They wanted a last shot to get 45k for broken down horse and unfortunately for the owners he could not even finish the race. Why would Cornelio keep whipping him in the lane when the horse was pulling himself up. Simply to get across the finish line which would have kept the claim from being nullified.

[Spalding No!]

I'm pretty familiar with Linda Rice's career. When has Linda Rice dumped a hurt/sore horse in a cheap claiming racing? Because in the thousands of starts over 30 years I'm pretty certain she hasn't unless you can name one I missed. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Executive Fleet
On With It
D J's Revenge
Almighty Silver
Little Love
Uncle Duncan

In short Linda Rice is not David Jacobson.
Since 2009, Linda Rice has had 18 fatalities in New York. David Jacobson in the same time period has had 22.

[cj]

Executive Fleet
On With It
D J's Revenge
Almighty Silver
Little Love
Uncle Duncan


Since 2009, Linda Rice has had 18 fatalities in New York. David Jacobson in the same time period has had 22.

Probably with many, many more starts I would imagine from DJ.

[rsetup]

Why would Cornelio keep whipping him in the lane when the horse was pulling himself up. Simply to get across the finish line which would have kept the claim from being nullified.

From the headon that I saw, and it was a partial stretch view only as he wasn't in camera range for the entire stretch run, he was hit ONCE. And it wasn't much of a shot at all. And then he started drifting and slowed to a crawl. Your claim is that he continued whipping him when out of camera range? Why would he do that if he had already stopped whipping the horse (after a single stretch strike) and it had stopped running?

Is there a link to the video you're referring to?

[bello]

From the headon that I saw, and it was a partial stretch view only as he wasn't in camera range for the entire stretch run, he was hit ONCE. And it wasn't much of a shot at all. And then he started drifting and slowed to a crawl. Your claim is that he continued whipping him when out of camera range? Why would he do that if he had already stopped whipping the horse (after a single stretch strike) and it had stopped running?

Is there a link to the video you're referring to?

I guess you need to ask Cornelio

Pan shot shows whips around the first turn,. Head on shows whipping down the backstretch despite being hopelessly beaten. Head on shows the horse finally pulled himself up in the lane and Cornelio whacked him again. Like I said, if the horse breaks down the claiming trainer can have the claim nullified. If the horse finishes it is not. Seemed like Cornelio was trying to motivate the horse to at least cross the finish line in one piece, hence that last whack in the lane while Kid was pulling himself up. Kid Cruz was in distress the entire race and should have been eased earlier by the jock. Instead he was being whipped. Even after the animal himself finally gave up he took one more whack. No excuses for that behavior. Yes he was only hit once in the lane when he was about 40 length behind. 40k lost by the owners because he did not make it to the finish.

I watch my head ons on Twinspires.

[EMD4ME]

I guess you need to ask Cornelio

Pan shot shows whips around the first turn,. Head on shows whipping down the backstretch despite being hopelessly beaten. Head on shows the horse finally pulled himself up in the lane and Cornelio whacked him again. Like I said, if the horse breaks down the claiming trainer can have the claim nullified. If the horse finishes it is not. Seemed like Cornelio was trying to motivate the horse to at least cross the finish line in one piece. Kid Cruz was in distress the entire race and should have been eased earlier by the jock. Instead he was being whipped. Even after the animal himself finally gave up with no help from Cornelio.

I watch my head ons on Twinspires.

NYRA replays (head on in HD) show 6-8 whips (on camera) and probably many more on the far turn, when the horse was obvious to not even outfinish the ambulance.

REPULSIVE.

(Can't wait for Super Pickle's next set of twisted LIES :mad:)

[rsetup]

He wasn't in noticeable distress. He just wasn't able to keep up. And Cornelio whacked him every so often on the first turn and backstretch. But I only saw a tap in the lane and the horse wasn't abused after that point.

I find it's usually more productive to represent the facts as they happened when trying to make point. Especially in cases when they can be verified by others.

I get it, you're not happy that the horse was dropped and that it didn't finish the race. But accusing the jock of brutalizing it is going significantly overboard.

[EMD4ME]

Probably with many, many more starts I would imagine from DJ.

I thought the same CJ, so I'm in your company but I found that

Formulator has Linda Rice with 2575 starts in the last 5 years.

DJ has 3304 in the last 5 years.

[EMD4ME]

He wasn't in noticeable distress. He just wasn't able to keep up. And Cornelio whacked him every so often on the first turn and backstretch. But I only saw a tap in the lane and the horse wasn't abused after that point.

I find it's usually more productive to represent the facts as they happened when trying to make point. Especially in cases when they can be verified by others.

I get it, you're not happy that the horse was dropped and that it didn't finish the race. But accusing the jock of brutalizing it is going significantly overboard.



Wait a minute. In the era of jocks OF NOT RIDING as they have the LEAD in the lane (Can't Desormeaux) or when they have a placing at risk, YOU ARE OK, with a jock who whips a horse 6-8 times on camera at the 3/8 as the HORSE ABSOLUTELY HAS A 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000% chance of passing 1 animal???????????????


You for 1 second don't think that Cornelio KNEW there was a claim in and was following instructions to just make it around the course NO MATTER WHAT?

JUST HOW STUPID AND BRAINDEAD DO YOU THINK anyone really is?

[KidCruz]

Wait a minute. In the era of jocks OF NOT RIDING as they have the LEAD in the lane (Can't Desormeaux) or when they have a placing at risk, YOU ARE OK, with a jock who whips a horse 6-8 times on camera at the 3/8 as the HORSE ABSOLUTELY HAS A 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000% chance of passing 1 animal???????????????


You for 1 second don't think that Cornelio KNEW there was a claim in and was following instructions to just make it around the course NO MATTER WHAT?

JUST HOW STUPID AND BRAINDEAD DO YOU THINK anyone really is?

EMD, I actually agree with you on most of your points and think that this was repulsive by the connections and that there were signs in his recent races that he just didn't have it. This was gross and this horse to Linda Rice to the freakin Travers. She could have very easily not allowed this to happen.

That said, getting on Cornelio for the early whipping is just not fair. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that getting whipped on the first turn and on the back stretch is kind of Kid Cruz's thing and always has been. He's a weirdo. Even in the best of races (most are on YouTube), the announcer says "Kid Cruz is put to a drive to keep up or struggling to keep up etc) and then the light would go on and he would kick. I can't fault Cornelio for trying the same thing that had won a horse multiple graded stakes.

[bello]

He wasn't in noticeable distress. He just wasn't able to keep up. And Cornelio whacked him every so often on the first turn and backstretch. But I only saw a tap in the lane and the horse wasn't abused after that point.

I find it's usually more productive to represent the facts as they happened when trying to make point. Especially in cases when they can be verified by others.

I get it, you're not happy that the horse was dropped and that it didn't finish the race. But accusing the jock of brutalizing it is going significantly overboard.

I understand your point but I will ask you to explain why whip a classy horse that has lost contact with the field. The horse pulled himself up and still got a sting of the whip when hopelessly beaten. Cornelio knew what was at stake and that was a claim that was not going to be nullified if he finished the race. This is not a conspiracy theory. Cornelio was smacking while hanging on for dear life right out of the gate. He knew why the horse was in the race. To be claimed

" Cornelio, be safe, have a safe stroll around the oval, we want him claimed, just finish the race"
Watch the entire ride, you guys have to be able to see it.

Do you think that whack in the lane was going to make up 40 lengths? You tell me the point! If it makes sense, i'll listen.

[EMD4ME]

EMD, I actually agree with you on most of your points and think that this was repulsive by the connections and that there were signs in his recent races that he just didn't have it. This was gross and this horse to Linda Rice to the freakin Travers. She could have very easily not allowed this to happen.

That said, getting on Cornelio for the early whipping is just not fair. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that getting whipped on the first turn and on the back stretch is kind of Kid Cruz's thing and always has been. He's a weirdo. Even in the best of races (most are on YouTube), the announcer says "Kid Cruz is put to a drive to keep up or struggling to keep up etc) and then the light would go on and he would kick. I can't fault Cornelio for trying the same thing that had won a horse multiple graded stakes.

1st of all, I am honored that KidCruz just replied in this thread :headbanger:

That is cool :jump:

I wasn't referring to the early riding tactics. I could understand that (stone closer, part of the horse needing to be motivated etc.)

I don't like the far turn work as the horse really had no shot to make a placing.

Without reading minds, it looked as if he was making sure Kid Cruz was motivated enough to complete the course.

Put it this way, the horse was eased (literally due to an inability to complete the course) 1/8 of a mile AFTER 8 whips.

We see jocks easing horses ON THE LEAD when they sometimes just speculate that something was wrong.....


Now, we have a seasoned jock, who rode the crap out of a horse at the 3/8, while impossibly behind and this jock had no clue that his horse was not going to rally??? AND HE HAD NO IDEA the horse was off?

Really? :bang: (not against you, my disgust is with these humans).

[SuperPickle]

I'm under the impression that all elite claiming trainers know 'inside scoop' on all horses in claiming races, did all top claiming outfits in NY just pass on a horse who had 'nothing wrong with him'?

Pickle?

If that were true than guys like Rudy and Jacobson have some explaining to do because they certainly have a LOT misses.

I won't disagree they watch morning tracks hours like hawks and exercise boys curry favor with info but the idea they know everything isn't reflective on some of their claims.

Like I've said. Kid Cruz's lack of claims was probably driven by price and a lack of condition options to race him. If she put him in for $20kish their would have been multiple claims.

[Fager Fan]

I thought the same CJ, so I'm in your company but I found that

Formulator has Linda Rice with 2575 starts in the last 5 years.

DJ has 3304 in the last 5 years.

Which makes her fatality percentage slightly higher than his.

[SuperPickle]

Probably with many, many more starts I would imagine from DJ.

There you are with the stuff you're good at.

I can't digest this without context. My obvious question is how does that rank with other large scale claiming outfits such as Rudy, CE, JE, Jacobson, etc.

Also where does that rank with other big barns? Pletcher, Mott, Brown, etc. I need a baseline number on a big barn. Or a guy like Clement who probably has 50-75 horse and my hunch is one of the lowest.

We're talking 2-3 breakdowns a year. Is that on par with other people trading the same horse flesh in the same size barns

[Fager Fan]

If that were true than guys like Rudy and Jacobson have some explaining to do because they certainly have a LOT misses.

I won't disagree they watch morning tracks hours like hawks and exercise boys curry favor with info but the idea they know everything isn't reflective on some of their claims.

Like I've said. Kid Cruz's lack of claims was probably driven by price and a lack of condition options to race him. If she put him in for $20kish their would have been multiple claims.

What's going on with name horses is more widely known on the backside.

This situation isn't going to make me lose any sleep but I understand where the critiques are coming from. Yes, it's a business but when a horse is one of the rare ones who does well for you, I'd want to make sure he had a good life after. If he's claimed, then I could no longer control that. I'd have retired him rather than go for another $40k (or bit more if they expected part of the purse). He'd already earned his retirement for me.

[SoCalCircuit]

There you are with the stuff you're good at.

I can't digest this without context. My obvious question is how does that rank with other large scale claiming outfits such as Rudy, CE, JE, Jacobson, etc.

Also where does that rank with other big barns? Pletcher, Mott, Brown, etc. I need a baseline number on a big barn. Or a guy like Clement who probably has 50-75 horse and my hunch is one of the lowest.

We're talking 2-3 breakdowns a year. Is that on par with other people trading the same horse flesh in the same size barns

Well also how often do these trainers have runners who don't break down or not DNFs but clearly not 100%. How often does DJ have horses claimed who break down or DNF next start. My guess would be DJ and Rudy are the worst offenders when the stats are more extrapolated.

[Fager Fan]

There you are with the stuff you're good at.

I can't digest this without context. My obvious question is how does that rank with other large scale claiming outfits such as Rudy, CE, JE, Jacobson, etc.

Also where does that rank with other big barns? Pletcher, Mott, Brown, etc. I need a baseline number on a big barn. Or a guy like Clement who probably has 50-75 horse and my hunch is one of the lowest.

We're talking 2-3 breakdowns a year. Is that on par with other people trading the same horse flesh in the same size barns

When you have a higher percentage than DJ, does any of this other stuff really matter?

[EMD4ME]

There you are with the stuff you're good at.

I can't digest this without context. My obvious question is how does that rank with other large scale claiming outfits such as Rudy, CE, JE, Jacobson, etc.

Also where does that rank with other big barns? Pletcher, Mott, Brown, etc. I need a baseline number on a big barn. Or a guy like Clement who probably has 50-75 horse and my hunch is one of the lowest.

We're talking 2-3 breakdowns a year. Is that on par with other people trading the same horse flesh in the same size barns

Weren't you the one who posted the Paulick Report article that said the breeder had a home for Kid Cruz whenever he was done racing?

She knew he had a home when he's done. He was terrible in 2 return starts.

Come on, let it go. We can tell you're tainted and biased for the industry insiders (execs, employees, horsepeople), let it go please.

It's 1st grade math for anyone who can count to 1.

Drop drop drop, older warrior, jock riding all out as claim was in, hopeless on the far turn, whip, whip, whip, whip, whip, whip, whip, whip and maybe more whips (camera shot away). Finally, horse said I'm done, I'm near dead and jock gave up.

What else do you frieken need to know man?????

She had a chance to send the horse away and do the right thing. The jock rode like all he cared about was completing the course.

They only did the right thing as the claim was voided due to Kid Cruz luckily making it 3/4 of a mile around somewhat safely without breaking down.

How do you sleep at night???? I'm dead serious.

[SuperPickle]

When you have a higher percentage than DJ, does any of this other stuff really matter?

Yeah but the hole in the data is puts horses on a trailer and sends them to places like Parx, Laurel, Monmouth and Suffolk when they can't compete at NYRA. Just off the top of my head I know he's had breakdowns at both Suffolk and Parx because it was written about here.

[EasyGoer89]

If that were true than guys like Rudy and Jacobson have some explaining to do because they certainly have a LOT misses.

I won't disagree they watch morning tracks hours like hawks and exercise boys curry favor with info but the idea they know everything isn't reflective on some of their claims.

Like I've said. Kid Cruz's lack of claims was probably driven by price and a lack of condition options to race him. If she put him in for $20kish their would have been multiple claims.

They have had misses but those misses don't mean the horse had a pre-existing major problem.

Also, they don't have to know everything they just have to know which horses to avoid, I'm wondering if this was one that was rumored amongst the 'claiming elite' to avoid.

I'm sure that's something that can be found out.

[rastajenk]

Why would the jockey know that there was a live claim on his horse?

[sour grapes]

even if kid cruz finished the race,the claim could also be voided after he was vanned off,so the assumption that cornhole tried to finish the race to qualify the claim is wrong.:popcorn:

[bello]

Why would the jockey know that there was a live claim on his horse?

Why wouldn't he? This is not a secret transaction.

[bello]

even if kid cruz finished the race,claim could also be voided after he was vanned off,so the assumption that cornhole tried to finish the race to qualify the claim is wrong.:popcorn:

Correct, but the goal is to finish the race and not be vanned off. Let the next shnook worry about the damaged goods.

Once again I will reiterate, it was the horse, not the jock that pulled himself up.

[onefast99]

How did the track vet miss the bowed tendon if what a few of the forum members said was true that any decent trainer could spot one?

[onefast99]

even if kid cruz finished the race,the claim could also be voided after he was vanned off,so the assumption that cornhole tried to finish the race to qualify the claim is wrong.:popcorn:
The state Vet can void the claim, no matter if the horse finishes the race or not.

[onefast99]

Why would the jockey know that there was a live claim on his horse?
Harness drivers know as the track announcer announces it before the start of the race, but t-bred jocks rarely if ever know the horse they are riding has any claim slips dropped on it.

[rastajenk]

Right on both counts. The jockey should not have known, or should not have even assumed, that a claim was in.

[Fager Fan]

It wouldn't matter even if he did know. He gets nothing for a claim. He gets 10 or 5% for running in the money.

Not many jockeys are desperate enough to beat an injured animal so that his trainer gets a claim, not when the top way to hurt (and possibly kill or paralyze) yourself is to go down with a horse.

I am awaiting the day where a rider sues a trainer for knowingly running an injured horse, resulting in his own injury.

[onefast99]

It wouldn't matter even if he did know. He gets nothing for a claim. He gets 10 or 5% for running in the money.

Not many jockeys are desperate enough to beat an injured animal so that his trainer gets a claim, not when the top way to hurt (and possibly kill or paralyze) yourself is to go down with a horse.

I am awaiting the day where a rider sues a trainer for knowingly running an injured horse, resulting in his own injury.
There currently is a lawsuit against a jockey who clipped heels with another horse and that horse went down and the jockey is now paralyzed. I'm sure one of the forum members may know of a trainer who was sued by either the owner or the jockey.

[Ruffian1]

It wouldn't matter even if he did know. He gets nothing for a claim. He gets 10 or 5% for running in the money.

Not many jockeys are desperate enough to beat an injured animal so that his trainer gets a claim, not when the top way to hurt (and possibly kill or paralyze) yourself is to go down with a horse.

I am awaiting the day where a rider sues a trainer for knowingly running an injured horse, resulting in his own injury.

Happened at Pimlico in the late 70's when Bobby Pineda was killed in a race .
I watched it happen at Pimlico. still makes me sick to think about it.

Google it but here is a headline .

They went after the trainer and owner after seeing the medication records.

suit filed by the family of the late jockey, Robert A. Pineda, against Pimlico ... and Thomas Pappagallo and Thomas S. Cavi-ness, owner and trainer, ...

[Fager Fan]

Happened at Pimlico in the late 70's when Bobby Pineda was killed in a race .
I watched it happen at Pimlico. still makes me sick to think about it.

Google it but here is a headline .

They went after the trainer and owner after seeing the medication records.

suit filed by the family of the late jockey, Robert A. Pineda, against Pimlico ... and Thomas Pappagallo and Thomas S. Cavi-ness, owner and trainer, ...


I heard of this one, though was fuzzy about what happened (I haven't Googled it yet). That was 40 years ago, though. It's surprising to me that we've seen nothing recent. I'm not saying that I want to see lawsuits or jockey who don't take responsibility for the dangerous profession that they've chosen, but I consider accidents that go along with the job far different than those where the trainer knowingly risks the horse's and jockey's life. We know that happens, particularly in claiming, and since nothing else has stopped it, I wish a lawsuit might.

[onefast99]

I heard of this one, though was fuzzy about what happened (I haven't Googled it yet). That was 40 years ago, though. It's surprising to me that we've seen nothing recent. I'm not saying that I want to see lawsuits or jockey who don't take responsibility for the dangerous profession that they've chosen, but I consider accidents that go along with the job far different than those where the trainer knowingly risks the horse's and jockey's life. We know that happens, particularly in claiming, and since nothing else has stopped it, I wish a lawsuit might.I'm sure when the two jocks were kicking the crap out of each other a few years back during the stretch run at Parx if one of those horses was injured there would have been a major lawsuit. Anyone know what happened to those 2 clowns?
Angel Castillo and Pierre Hernandez Ortega?

[ReplayRandall]

I'm sure when the two jocks were kicking the crap out of each other a few years back during the stretch run at Parx if one of those horses was injured there would have been a major lawsuit. Anyone know what happened to those 2 clowns?
Angel Castillo and Pierre Hernandez Ortega?

Angel Castillo has 3 mounts on today's card at Parx

Pierre Hernandez Ortega hasn't ridden since last July at Parx, his license had been revoked for buzzer incident, which he appealed and lost.

[onefast99]

Angel Castillo has 3 mounts on today's card at Parx

Pierre Hernandez Ortega hasn't ridden since last July at Parx, his license had been revoked for buzzer incident, which he appealed and lost.
Crazy jocks....

[PaceAdvantage]

Dude, you're sounding like a desperate track exec looking to save face.

The way you just twisted my words about totally DIFFERENT situations make you sound like a vile soul. Honestly, we agree to disagree and I couldn't care less but I seriously feel embarrassed to even engage in conversation with someone of your ilk. I want to shower as I type a response to you. It's that bad.

To answer your disgusting post:You need help...seriously, I say that with peace and love.

If you can't see that everything I've typed about you these past few days is 100% valid, then you're lost...gone for good...never to again regain your sanity or your rational being.

Look at you...look at you go off the deep end simply because Pickle doesn't kiss your ass every 5 minutes and agree with 99% of what you write on here. Anyone NOT fitting that description gets INSULTED and beat down like one of your beloved WWE scrubs...you're THE ROCK, right EMD? Big bad ROCK, telling it like it is...GROW the F up man....

But you're also the self-described nicest, kindest soul in the world, right EMD? Dutiful caretaker of his elderly parents, lover of animals, a regular Saint Francis of Assisi you are...

Except when you type vile replies like the above to Mr. Pickle who doesn't deserve that at all.

Oh, you'll come back here and tell me all the reasons he deserves it. How he's done you so wrong on here...how he's a troll..

You'll never learn...I should listen to the people who tell me that.

[PaceAdvantage]

To correct you on 1 of your attacks....This is rich...he's attacking you! :lol:

Dude, you've called him every name in the book so far...he's called you a great handicapper.

You need help.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm under the impression that all elite claiming trainers know 'inside scoop' on all horses in claiming races, did all top claiming outfits in NY just pass on a horse who had 'nothing wrong with him'?

Pickle?Do you not read the replies posted here? Pickle already answered your question as to why...it made sense to me...which of course means it won't make sense to you.

[EMD4ME]

You need help...seriously, I say that with peace and love.

If you can't see that everything I've typed about you these past few days is 100% valid, then you're lost...gone for good...never to again regain your sanity or your rational being.

Look at you...look at you go off the deep end simply because Pickle doesn't kiss your ass every 5 minutes and agree with 99% of what you write on here. Anyone NOT fitting that description gets INSULTED and beat down like one of your beloved WWE scrubs...you're THE ROCK, right EMD? Big bad ROCK, telling it like it is...GROW the F up man....

But you're also the self-described nicest, kindest soul in the world, right EMD? Dutiful caretaker of his elderly parents, lover of animals, a regular Saint Francis of Assisi you are...

Except when you type vile replies like the above to Mr. Pickle who doesn't deserve that at all.

Oh, you'll come back here and tell me all the reasons he deserves it. How he's done you so wrong on here...how he's a troll..

You'll never learn...I should listen to the people who tell me that.

These are the times where I know, you skip over tons of posts.

Superpickle himself, will admit to you, he's been taking my name and putting it through mud. I'm cool with that, as long as he can take it in return.

If you even read the series of posts that you're referring to, you'd see that he TOTALLY twisted my words around 180 degrees! I corrected him and added some spice (just like he does to me).

Superpickle and I are cool. Despite me being hot and him being cold OR vice versa. We're simply from 2 different planets and that's fine.

[EMD4ME]

This is rich...he's attacking you! :lol:

Dude, you've called him every name in the book so far...he's called you a great handicapper.

You need help.

Is that a bad time to ask to be a moderator ? :pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:





So kidding :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[SaratogaSteve]

Totally incorrect comment about Linda Rice....She has been shipping quite a few sore horses to Finger Lakes the last few years. How do I know? Let me give you some handicapping advice. Because they are always underlaid and should be played against. Classy only on paper, burnt out, sore or hurt when they take the trip up the thruway where they arre often odds on and lose. So stop the nonsense. They wanted a last shot to get 45k for broken down horse and unfortunately for the owners he could not even finish the race. Why would Cornelio keep whipping him in the lane when the horse was pulling himself up. Simply to get across the finish line which would have kept the claim from being nullified.

1000% wrong, NY claiming rule voids any claim if horse can't get from track to barn, even after the wire.

Where was the outrage when KC ran for 62.5 a month earlier? Chasing the earlier ambulance?

[PaceAdvantage]

Come on, let it go. We can tell you're tainted and biased for the industry insiders (execs, employees, horsepeople), let it go please.Why should he let anything go? You're as tainted and biased in your own way...does he tell you to let it go? Does he insult you to your face to no end whenever you post? Or does he try and debate you like a human being?

Get over yourself already. Or seek the help you desperately need, apparently.

I try to gloss over the many instances you pull this shit, by passing it off as "that's our EMD!"

But you really are not a pleasant person on here. You're angry and vindictive and totally out of bounds with anyone you consider "not on your side." You clearly have an enemy list on here...it's frightening the lengths you go to beat down ANYONE who is even the slightest bit off your trail.

[EMD4ME]

Why should he let anything go? You're as tainted and biased in your own way...does he tell you to let it go? Does he insult you to your face to no end whenever you post? Or does he try and debate you like a human being?

Get over yourself already. Or seek the help you desperately need, apparently.

I try to gloss over the many instances you pull this shit, by passing it off as "that's our EMD!"

But you really are not a pleasant person on here. You're angry and vindictive and totally out of bounds with anyone you consider "not on your side." You clearly have an enemy list on here...it's frightening the lengths you go to beat down ANYONE who is even the slightest bit off your trail.

I think you meant this for Superpickle.

[EMD4ME]

Why should he let anything go? You're as tainted and biased in your own way...does he tell you to let it go? Does he insult you to your face to no end whenever you post? Or does he try and debate you like a human being?

Get over yourself already. Or seek the help you desperately need, apparently.

I try to gloss over the many instances you pull this shit, by passing it off as "that's our EMD!"

But you really are not a pleasant person on here. You're angry and vindictive and totally out of bounds with anyone you consider "not on your side." You clearly have an enemy list on here...it's frightening the lengths you go to beat down ANYONE who is even the slightest bit off your trail.

And....if you'd like, I'll show post by post, point by point (IN A PM) why you're 100000% wrong here on this one.

My personal opinion: You spend too much time hearing (on the phone) opinions about me BEFORE you, without a bias, slowly (to capture the moment), read all posts, in their context as they grow.

Or maybe you make a "too quick" synopsis in fast reviews of posts.

It doesn't matter why, all that matters is what.

[PaceAdvantage]

These are the times where I know, you skip over tons of posts.

Superpickle himself, will admit to you, he's been taking my name and putting it through mud. I'm cool with that, as long as he can take it in return.

If you even read the series of posts that you're referring to, you'd see that he TOTALLY twisted my words around 180 degrees! I corrected him and added some spice (just like he does to me).

Superpickle and I are cool. Despite me being hot and him being cold OR vice versa. We're simply from 2 different planets and that's fine.This whole thing from you is one giant put-on. It has to be.

I read 99.9% of the posts made on this website...except for perhaps some of the selection posts where they only post numbers...I don't have to go over every pick...but other than that, I read EVERYTHING, or close to it. Especially where it concerns you.

[EMD4ME]

This whole thing from you is one giant put-on. It has to be.

I read 99.9% of the posts made on this website...except for perhaps some of the selection posts where they only post numbers...I don't have to over every pick...but other than that, I read EVERYTHING, or close to it. Especially where it concerns you.

Good! So then you'll take this one back possibly as Superpickle has been making some funny and creative phrases about me (besides disagreeing and I'm OK WITH THAT). I also do it to him.

[PaceAdvantage]

And....if you'd like, I'll show post by post, point by point (IN A PM) why you're 100000% wrong here on this one.

My personal opinion: You spend too much time hearing (on the phone) opinions about me BEFORE you, without a bias, slowly (to capture the moment), read all posts, in their context as they grow.

Or maybe you make a "too quick" synopsis in fast reviews of posts.

It doesn't matter why, all that matters is what.I'd be happy to let the board decide if you're fair to people who disagree with you. We can create a poll.

I'm sure you'll think it's rigged if you lose. So why bother, right?

[EMD4ME]

This whole thing from you is one giant put-on. It has to be.

I read 99.9% of the posts made on this website...except for perhaps some of the selection posts where they only post numbers...I don't have to go over every pick...but other than that, I read EVERYTHING, or close to it. Especially where it concerns you.

:confused: Put on? Of what variety?

[EMD4ME]

I'd be happy to let the board decide if you're fair to people who disagree with you. We can create a poll.

I'm sure you'll think it's rigged if you lose. So why bother, right?

I'm fine with that. It's been done before. The "Ban EMD thread".

You can call it an "Is EMD fair if you both disagree thread" but in reality it will be the same thing.

If the results change this time, cool, I'll leave on my own. You don't have to ban me. And if you wan't me to leave/ban me PA just say so. I'm fine with that as well.

I don't want to be the reason you hate your creation, hell no.

[PaceAdvantage]

:confused: Put on? Of what variety?The way you respond to people...maybe you think it's funny when you beat down those you disagree with...accusing them of bias and agenda and shilling for tracks or execs or whatnot. Calling them stupid and that they need to get out of the game...why do I even bother listing all the shit you pull...I need to stop taking you seriously altogether.

Or am I supposed to take these responses from you lightheartedly? Maybe that's my problem. This is all some sort of inside joke I'm not privy to.

[EMD4ME]

The way you respond to people...maybe you think it's funny when you beat down those you disagree with...accusing them of bias and agenda and shilling for tracks or execs or whatnot.

Am I supposed to take these responses from you lightheartedly? Maybe that's my problem. This is all some sort of inside joke I'm not privy to.

PA, you must have some sick twisted vision of me that some of your long time friends have created.....Totally unfair.

Now, I'm a logical guy. If you'd like, let's discuss each post that was an issue and I'll be more than happy to show you where what you see, is not as simple as you see it.

If I am wrong, which is possible, we all make mistakes, I'll say so and you can punish me. Maybe send me away 1 month for every post you find that is black and white wrong.



Now, before you take me up on that, will you do the same for NCG, who was a true MEAN XXXXXXX X XXXXX (it can't even be disputed)?

I know you banned Dahoss for being a jerk, that's to be admired. (In other words, I am not saying you don't take action-just wondering if you will be fair as well).

Or is this about me showing SuperPickle up when I posted the NYRA condition book the other night? Did Superpickle get upset that I embarrassed him? (when he said there were NO OTHER races above 40,000 for this horse).

[elhelmete]

I'm fine with that. It's been done before. The "Ban EMD thread".

You can call it an "Is EMD fair if you both disagree thread" but in reality it will be the same thing.

If the results change this time, cool, I'll leave on my own. You don't have to ban me. And if you wan't me to leave/ban me PA just say so. I'm fine with that as well.

I don't want to be the reason you hate your creation, hell no.

Martyr, cued right on time.

[EMD4ME]

Martyr, cued right on time.

If that's your wish, no problem.

[RunDustyRun]

Why should he let anything go? You're as tainted and biased in your own way...does he tell you to let it go? Does he insult you to your face to no end whenever you post? Or does he try and debate you like a human being?

Get over yourself already. Or seek the help you desperately need, apparently.

I try to gloss over the many instances you pull this shit, by passing it off as "that's our EMD!"

But you really are not a pleasant person on here. You're angry and vindictive and totally out of bounds with anyone you consider "not on your side." You clearly have an enemy list on here...it's frightening the lengths you go to beat down ANYONE who is even the slightest bit off your trail.

can you please point out to me where EMD has accused posters of being gay lovers or when he played internet tough guy and said he would "piss himself" if he met said poster...your bias is showing...I'll hang up and listen

[EMD4ME]

can you please point out to me where EMD has accused posters of being gay lovers or when he played internet tough guy and said he would "piss himself" if he met said poster...you're massive bias is showing...I'll hang up and listen

In PA land, if I am called a gay lover, asked if Mr Pick 5 is a Lumberjack and if I'm the hairdresser, that's ok.

If EMD, calls Superpickle a former racetrack executive who's looking down at the unwashed masses (Superpickle said he was in racetrack management-I didn't make it up) its BLASPHEMY.


Welcome to the life of EMD on the internet.


Wait....now NCG will chime in and say: LOOK AT EMD, HE ALWAYS PLAYS THE VICTIM. :puke:

[EasyGoer89]

Do you not read the replies posted here? Pickle already answered your question as to why...it made sense to me...which of course means it won't make sense to you.

I don't understand where he answered. I responded with 'pickle?' Because EMD answered the question that I had originally posted to pickle, he didn't 'already answer me'

[johnhannibalsmith]

It's bullshit because we all know that you only have eyes for Ramon.

:lol:

[EMD4ME]

AND PA, don't even come back with:

I deleted the posts.

YOU DIDN'T go after him publicly like you do to me every week on here.

If you'd like, I'll pay you $1000 a year to start being fair. I don't sell anything so you can't say it's advertising. Just be fair.

How does that sound? We can start 4/2/17 (4/1 as you might think it's an April Fools joke :lol:). $83.33 a month on my credit card.

[EMD4ME]

It's bullshit because we all know that you only have eyes for Ramon.

:lol:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::pound::pound::pound:

And WOMEN, never any man (for the record).

[Mr. Pick 5]

In PA land, if I am called a gay lover, asked if Mr Pick 5 is a Lumberjack and if I'm the hairdresser, that's ok.

If EMD, calls Superpickle a former racetrack executive who's looking down at the unwashed masses (Superpickle said he was in racetrack management-I didn't make it up) its BLASPHEMY.


Welcome to the life of EMD on the internet.


Wait....now NCG will chime in and say: LOOK AT EMD, HE ALWAYS PLAYS THE VICTIM. :puke:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You are perhaps forgetting the most important element that allows ncg to get away with this....a paying advertiser

Somehow we are gay but he is constantly asking for grown men to send him pictures over the Internet...quite ironic wouldn't you say?

In the case of super pickle he is an industry insider and PA seems to prefer them

[EMD4ME]

can you please point out to me where EMD has accused posters of being gay lovers or when he played internet tough guy and said he would "piss himself" if he met said poster...your bias is showing...I'll hang up and listen

Dusty, be careful, NCG will now call you a fake profile that I created years ago in preperation for this moment. As no one COULD EVER SUBSCRIBE TO A THREAD that has

110,000 VIEWS in 3 MONTHS and 14 DAYS.

OH NO....NO ONE CARES ABOUT THAT THREAD :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Frieken twitter posts about this thread but NCG says no one COULD EVER subscribe to a thread like that....

Then he'll call you a gay life partner of mine. Be prepared.

Oh wait, he'll call you an ASSHOLE and get away with it as well.

Be ready. Slime coming your away.

[EMD4ME]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You are perhaps forgetting the most important element that allows ncg to get away with this....a paying advertiser

Somehow we are gay but he is constantly asking for grown men to send him pictures over the Internet...quite ironic wouldn't you say?

In the case of super pickle he is an industry insider and PA seems to prefer them

I'm not forgetting. I am a real man, with MY HONOR as my #1 positive trait.

I was dead serious, $83.33 a month for my first year of "paying for fair treatment".

$1000 in total for those without an NCG ROI Calculator. (I don't need an ROI calculator, I calculate ROI in my head in .004 seconds, that's what 4 years olds who did turn time in their head do, when they are 40 years old).

NCG, nothing worse than a person who was nice (ME IN CASE YOU'RE DRUNK AND DON'T GET IT), being treated like shit by someone (YOU) who should never have been given a second chance. I'm sick of your behavior, in case you haven't noticed.

[SoCalCircuit]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::pound::pound::pound:

And WOMEN, never any man (for the record).

Come on EMD I thought no jokes only horse talk. :coffee::coffee::coffee:

[EMD4ME]

Come on EMD I thought no jokes only horse talk. :coffee::coffee::coffee:

I answered NCG and replied to his disgusting behavior in the TLG thread.

PA asked me a few questions/made some comments and then Dusty came in with a really serious and logical question.

I think it's only fair that PA answers, especially if he is promoting a fair posting environment.

JHS made me :lol::lol::lol:, it was funny, come on :pound:, admit it was funny SoCalCircuit :ThmbUp:

After all, I don't want many PA posters (like maybe RunDustyRun) to feel like this is some sort of little boys club and if you're not 1 of the loved ones, you better be shy and hide as the abuse will be aplenty.

I'm helping PA show that it's not by asking him. I'm sure he'll be here soon and show that he's a fair guy.

[SoCalCircuit]

I answered NCG and replied to his disgusting behavior in the TLG thread.

PA asked me a few questions/made some comments and then Dusty came in with a really serious and logical question.

I think it's only fair that PA answers, especially if he is promoting a fair posting environment.

JHS made me :lol::lol::lol:, it was funny, come on :pound:, admit it was funny SoCalCircuit :ThmbUp:

After all, I don't want many PA posters (like maybe RunDustyRun) to feel like this is some sort of little boys club and if you're not 1 of the loved ones, you better be shy and hide as the abuse will be aplenty.

I'm helping PA show that it's not by asking him. I'm sure he'll be here soon and show that he's a fair guy.

Lol alright fair enough. Jokes are back :headbanger:

[SuperPickle]

These are the times where I know, you skip over tons of posts.

Superpickle himself, will admit to you, he's been taking my name and putting it through mud. I'm cool with that, as long as he can take it in return.

If you even read the series of posts that you're referring to, you'd see that he TOTALLY twisted my words around 180 degrees! I corrected him and added some spice (just like he does to me).

Superpickle and I are cool. Despite me being hot and him being cold OR vice versa. We're simply from 2 different planets and that's fine.


EMD, I'm not putting your name through the mud. In fact I would say you're probably one of the best handicappers on here. If someone put a gun my head and made me bet my money on some else's picks you'd certainly be on the short list.

In turn you call me a failed racetrack executive with an agenda.

But all that being said you're simply clueless on anything related to racing outside of handicapping. The business side. You have no idea. I'm not even sure you understand how a racetrack operates as a business. And you also haven't a clue how to train a horse but as a guy without a trainers license I'm not one to judge.

As I've said you're fine in your lane but when you venture out of it you're a trainwreck.

The other massive character flaw you have is you don't treat anyone (including both CJ and PA) trying to make money operating a business in the horse racing space with an ounce of respect. In fact I'll take it a step further. You simply don't treat the jockey, trainers and other people who make this industry happen as human beings.

The caviler way in which you'll accuse a jockey of stiffing a horse, a trainer running a sore horse or drugging a horse or an industry executive being incompetent is breathtaking. Maybe because I've worked in the space I've leaned to treat people like humans because I've interacted with them but you treat jockeys, trainers and industry people you dislike like Batman villains. They're hell bent on destroying Gotham and EMD must stop them at any cost.

Look I don't know Chris Kay. I've never met Chris Kay but the things you've posted on here about him cross every line of decency. I would never do that no matter what he did let alone on someone else's forum. You owe PA an apology. And to top it all off you don't even know what his role in your issues is. He's simply a soft target you've come up with to fit your needs to scream about things you dislike and disapprove of.

So in closing I think you should do two things. Start understanding that people in the industry are real people not comic book characters and start treating them as such.

Two, be more respectful to PA and CJ. And here's something you haven't even realized. Your posts are literally killing this messageboard. Look at some of the topics on here lately you've been knee deep in. Multiple anti-NYRA threads. The Chris Kay stuff. The Linda Rice thread. The Irad Oaklawn thread. And those are just in the past week or so. The threads are all negative garbage bordering on slander.

And your killing the quality of posters. I'd being lying if I denied I've considered stopping posting. You ran Vic out of town which you'll never admit to. When's the last time Andy Serling posted? Not to mention all the people with tons of industry experience who read, could post but don't because who the hell wants to deal with you? They have to work in this industry. They can't have someone like you accusing them of crimes.

You're hijacking PA's house and driving quality posters away and making it an echo chamber of your tin foil hat club of SRU, Eastgoer, Bello and Pick 5.

Stop it.

[no breathalyzer]

EMD, I'm not putting your name through the mud. In fact I would say you're probably one of the best handicappers on here. If someone put a gun my head and made me bet my money on some else's picks you'd certainly be on the short list.

In turn you call me a failed racetrack executive with an agenda.

But all that being said you're simply clueless on anything related to racing outside of handicapping. The business side. You have no idea. I'm not even sure you understand how a racetrack operates as a business. And you also haven't a clue how to train a horse but as a guy without a trainers license I'm not one to judge.

As I've said you're fine in your lane but when you venture out of it you're a trainwreck.

The other massive character flaw you have is you don't treat anyone (including both CJ and PA) trying to make money operating a business in the horse racing space with an ounce of respect. In fact I'll take it a step further. You simply don't treat the jockey, trainers and other people who make this industry happen as human beings.

The caviler way in which you'll accuse a jockey of stiffing a horse, a trainer running a sore horse or drugging a horse or an industry executive being incompetent is breathtaking. Maybe because I've worked in the space I've leaned to treat people like humans because I've interacted with them but you treat jockeys, trainers and industry people you dislike like Batman villains. They're hell bent on destroying Gotham and EMD must stop them at any cost.

Look I don't know Chris Kay. I've never met Chris Kay but the things you've posted on here about him cross every line of decency. I would never do that no matter what he did let alone on someone else's forum. You owe PA an apology. And to top it all off you don't even know what his role in your issues is. He's simply a soft target you've come up with to fit your needs to scream about things you dislike and disapprove of.

So in closing I think you should do two things. Start understanding that people in the industry are real people not comic book characters and start treating them as such.

Two, be more respectful to PA and CJ. And here's something you haven't even realized. Your posts are literally killing this messageboard. Look at some of the topics on here lately you've been knee deep in. Multiple anti-NYRA threads. The Chris Kay stuff. The Linda Rice thread. The Irad Oaklawn thread. And those are just in the past week or so. The threads are all negative garbage bordering on slander.

And your killing the quality of posters. I'd being lying if I denied I've considered stopping posting. You ran Vic out of town which you'll never admit to. When's the last time Andy Serling posted? Not to mention all the people with tons of industry experience who read, could post but don't because who the hell wants to deal with you? They have to work in this industry. They can't have someone like you accusing them of crimes.

You're hijacking PA's house and driving quality posters away and making it an echo chamber of your tin foil hat club of SRU, Eastgoer, Bello and Pick 5.

Stop it.

:cool: Whats the drink of choice tonight?

1. wrong
2.only to troll, or to pull a drive by
3.No disrespect to EMD4ME.... if people in the industry wanted something aired out on this board he isn't holding them back

[bello]

1000% wrong, NY claiming rule voids any claim if horse can't get from track to barn, even after the wire.

Where was the outrage when KC ran for 62.5 a month earlier? Chasing the earlier ambulance?

If Kid Cruz made it across the finish line and was not vanned off he would have been the property of the claiming trainer. As damaged as he may have been.

shall
become the owner of the horse when the start is effected, whether the horse is sound or
unsound or injured before or during the race or after the race, except that:
(1) the claim is voidable at the discretion of the new owner pursuant to the conditions
stated in section 4038.19 of this Part unless the age or sex of such horse has been
misrepresented, and subject to the provisions of subdivision (b) of this section; and
(2) a claim shall be void for any horse that dies during a race or is euthanized on the
track following a race; and
(3) a claim is voidable at the discretion of the new owner, for a period of one hour
after the race is made official, for any horse that is vanned off the track after the
race.
In the event more than one person should enter a claim for the same horse, the

[PaceAdvantage]

can you please point out to me where EMD has accused posters of being gay lovers or when he played internet tough guy and said he would "piss himself" if he met said poster...your bias is showing...I'll hang up and listenI've screamed at BOTH OF THEM to cut it out...guess you don't read much around here.

But in this thread, I'm talking about EMD vs. Pickle...and I'm pretty sure you're referring to NCG...and like I said, I told both of them to knock it off.

Funny how EMD gets into MULTIPLE dick-length matches on here, but I'm the bad guy...ok Dusty...whatever you say pal.

[PaceAdvantage]

If EMD, calls Superpickle a former racetrack executive who's looking down at the unwashed masses (Superpickle said he was in racetrack management-I didn't make it up) its BLASPHEMY.If that was all you said to him, I wouldn't have said boo to you.

And if that's all you said to him, I'll sign the rights to this website over to you. But we both know that's not all you said.

Why do you insist on playing these games?

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm done.

I'm going to start closing threads and kicking assholes off in the blink of an eye from now on.

I don't give a shit who you are, how long you've been here, how long your dick is or how much you bet.

I'm finished playing games and I'm not ****ing around anymore.

Romper Room is over.

And if you don't like it, you're free to start your own website.

[PaceAdvantage]

And it's funny how all the EMD strokers forget that it was EMD who started it with NCG, because EMD's ego couldn't take it that someone dare disagree / challenge him on the notion of track bias.

But I remember...

[Grits]

I'm done.

I'm going to start closing threads and kicking assholes off in the blink of an eye from now on.

I don't give a shit who you are, how long you've been here, how long your dick is or how much you bet.

I'm finished playing games and I'm not ****ing around anymore.

Romper Room is over.

And if you don't like it, you're free to start your own website.

Good. Thank you. It can't come soon enough, particularly with all the hours of work devoted to the new upgrade.

Sometime, I think you have way, way too much patience. I'm amazed that grown men, who have careers, who've excelled at something in their lives, that have families--wives, small children, grown children, grandchildren could stoop as low as some have here at PA--regardless the topic.

....If you conduct yourself like this, here, how in the world do you conduct yourself in real life? How did you succeed at anything?

I read several threads early this morning that have caused me to wonder.

[onefast99]

If Kid Cruz made it across the finish line and was not vanned off he would have been the property of the claiming trainer. As damaged as he may have been.

shall
become the owner of the horse when the start is effected, whether the horse is sound or
unsound or injured before or during the race or after the race, except that:
(1) the claim is voidable at the discretion of the new owner pursuant to the conditions
stated in section 4038.19 of this Part unless the age or sex of such horse has been
misrepresented, and subject to the provisions of subdivision (b) of this section; and
(2) a claim shall be void for any horse that dies during a race or is euthanized on the
track following a race; and
(3) a claim is voidable at the discretion of the new owner, for a period of one hour
after the race is made official, for any horse that is vanned off the track after the
race.
In the event more than one person should enter a claim for the same horse, the
The state vet can void the claim, that is set in stone.

[onefast99]

1000% wrong, NY claiming rule voids any claim if horse can't get from track to barn, even after the wire.

Where was the outrage when KC ran for 62.5 a month earlier? Chasing the earlier ambulance?As stated before in this thread the state vet can void any and all claims if deemed necessary. My question is how did this animal get past the state vet prior to the race?