Could a system show a place or show profit but not a win profit?

[Bill Cullen]

Could a system (methodology, approach, etc) show a place or show profit but not a win profit?

I've never thought much about that before.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Bill

[DJofSD]

Excellent question.

I would ask this question first: do you handicap, use the methodology, etc., for finding the place and/or show horses that you use to indentify the winner?

DJofSD

[fishorsechess]

Some horses are frequent placers and seldom win.

[OTM Al]

Yes, there is that group of horses so often referred to as money burners that never manage to win yet I would never set an exotics ticket without them underneath. My old pal AP Aspen (may he return healthy some day) was a perfect example of this.

[betovernetcapper]

There's a book on the subject called something like "Th Dr Z System". Have a copy somewhere. Anyway it looks for overlays in the place and show pools.

[DJofSD]

I used to use the Dr Z method many years ago. I stopped using it when the overlays became fewer and farther between. I can't even imagine finding any now especially in SoCal with the smaller fields.

DJofSD

[highnote]

I use the Dr. Z system. Place and show bets have always yielded steady profits for me. The late money that comes into the pools does eliminate some of your edge especially at popular tracks. I couldn't find a single Dr. Z bet at Gulfstream a couple years ago, so I stopped looking. They'll return eventually, they always do.

I started looking at other tracks -- even harness. I've always had good luck betting Yonkers on Friday nights -- even before the days of internet betting. I don't know why Fridays are better than Saturdays at Yonkers, but they are.

Late evening and weekend races seem to produce more Dr. Z system bets than say Wednesday afternoon at Belmont. The Wednesday Belmont crowd is pretty sharp and maybe a little conservative. You get more amatuers on the weekends and maybe on the evening and weekends people have a few drinks and get sloppy.

The key as always, is to find horses that are underbet to place and show in relation to the amount bet on them to win.