How long does it take you to Cap??

[Vince Stone]

Hey everyone,

Just found this site and can't believe I haven't found it earlier. I've been capping for about 10 years now and still learning new things everyday while also trying to improve everyday. When I am looking at an entire card for a day it could take me up to 4 hours. Because it takes so long, and I have a 9-5, I rarely ever get to play a full card or even P4s and P6s. Was just curious how long it takes other to cap a single race or card? I know every race is different depending on the entries, but just looking for an idea. Look forward to being on these forums often and getting involved with the discussions.

[Racey]

many opinions to this question but as a rule I average around an hour per track usually playing 2-3 tracks on Saturdays. I concentrate on horses running well against the race flow getting a better pace setup.

[Frankie D]

Same here. Takes about 1 to 1.5 hours to work a card at one track. I also play two or three tracks on weekend days.

It is a lot easier to bet accurately and avoid mistakes if i am totally complete with ALL basic work done prior to race 1 on a card.

I usually only play 6 or 7 races per card. I also rarely bet below 2 to 1. Even money? Forget that.

[Dave Schwartz]

3 minutes per race.

"Moving like a tremendous machine."

[VigorsTheGrey]

It is not so much as how long it takes as it is WHAT is being done.....how does one go about handicapping a race....? Handicapping a card.....some can stare at a Form for hours and achieve little of value....what is important info....? What is not....? These are all important questions.....what do you think is important to be aware of when betting....?

[ultracapper]

20 minutes to decide if I'm interested in a race. At least an hour to an hour and a half if I decide to work through it completely.

[LottaKash]

It generally takes me about 15-minutes or less to PACE-FILTER an entire card for CONTENDERS, and then about 10 minutes or so to complete the DRILL..

Then it will be, either a GO or a NOGO...sure...

Do about 6-tracks per day...

[VigorsTheGrey]

It generally takes me about 15-minutes or less to PACE-FILTER an entire card for CONTENDERS, and then about 10 minutes or so to complete the DRILL..

Then it will be, either a GO or a NOGO...sure...

Do about 6-tracks per day...
Once you are at the GO or a NOGO stage....what then figures in deciding to "pul da trigga"....?

[LottaKash]

Once I find a horse or horses that possess an extreme or valuable PACE-Advantage, then I will look for one of about dozen or so of my tried-and-true ANGLES ,and then attach it to the pace-advantaged horse....This only takes a minute or two in any given race...

No Angle, no BET... So simple now..:cool: (Wasn't always that way tho)

[JustRalph]

Punch the Jcapper button, wait two minutes for the card to finish and then read the report race by race.

I know in a minute or so if the race might be playable and if it is maybe five more minutes on the race.

Move on.

Most cards today on a normal Saturday only have 3-6 playable races. 6 is rare

[Elliott Sidewater]

Around 4 hours to handicap a 9 race card. Yes, that's a long time, but at the end I know why I like or dislike each horse's chances, or failing that know when I don't know. This makes the betting decisions less pressured. Having to decide on the handicapping opinions and how to bet a race, at the same time, can be a tough proposition subject to more error than I can tolerate.

Dave Schwartz - machine gun.
Me - six shooter with barrel seldom filled.

[FakeNameChanged]

Around 4 hours to handicap a 9 race card. Yes, that's a long time, but at the end I know why I like or dislike each horse's chances, or failing that know when I don't know. This makes the betting decisions less pressured. Having to decide on the handicapping opinions and how to bet a race, at the same time, can be a tough proposition subject to more error than I can tolerate.

Dave Schwartz - machine gun.
Me - six shooter with barrel seldom filled.
I don't think your 25-30 minutes a race is unreasonable especially if it's pen and paper, longhand version as opposed to Dave's probable software program. Add one or more replays per race that interest you, and it's another 15-30 minutes each. I invested that amount of time last week for Parx, and the cold windy conditions cancelled all my work. Good practice.

[Inner Dirt]

2-4 hours per card on average. Although some cards I can handicap in 60 seconds as in just looking at the entries and deciding not for me. Dirt sprints are my specialty and I am putrid at turf routes. Not enough dirt sprints and too many turf routes I will quickly pass on the card.

[Hapman]

I've only been in the game about five years...but I'd say if I'm seriously capping a full card it takes me 1-2 hours per track.

If I'm really getting into a big card like BC then I will start early and spend multiple days going back over certain races.

If I'm just kind of casually having fun at the track or something I can do a race in a few minutes, but that is my sped-up version of handicapping where I'm just trying to find a quick play.

[arw629]

1.5 - 2 hrs for me

[Magister Ludi]

With COTS PC hardware, it would take us approximately 16h/race to arrive at a “solution”. With massively-parallel FPGA hardware that we've built in-house to iteratively thrash through PDEs, our computational time horizon is measured in seconds. Carbon unit face time: none.

[LottaKash]

With COTS PC hardware, it would take us approximately 16h/race to arrive at a “solution”. With massively-parallel FPGA hardware that we've built in-house to iteratively thrash through PDEs, our computational time horizon is measured in seconds. Carbon unit face time: none.

I would love to see that setup...and how it all works to make you the millions..

[Prof.Factor]

With COTS PC hardware, it would take us approximately 16h/race to arrive at a “solution”. With massively-parallel FPGA hardware that we've built in-house to iteratively thrash through PDEs, our computational time horizon is measured in seconds. Carbon unit face time: none.

COTS hardware takes 16hr to handicap must have been an IBM PCjr running at 4MHz.
If your FPGA can't break the milli-second barrier then you need to get those engineers in gear.
Seconds? Really? .... phist

[Vince Stone]

I think it takes me so long because I try to make a case for every horse, even when I shouldn't. If a horse doesn't stack up on class or figs, I may look at chart comments and see he stumbled or was wide throughout. Sometimes that is helpful to be put on long shots, but most of the time I feel like I'm wasting a lot of time on horses that most likely don't have a chance

[Robert Fischer]

scan full card PPs for potential value = 15 min
deep capping/ replay watching = 30 min
ticket structure+tote-watch +wagering = 30 min- 1hr


^^ for a typical card.

A rotten card may be over with a 10min 'scan', and a major stakes card could take an extra hour.

[Red Knave]

Carbon unit face time: none.
You always make this carbon unit smile. :D

[Nitro]

My procedure these days is quite a bit different from the traditional or computerized handicapping that I used many years ago. However, the goal is the same: Getting the biggest bang for the buck and have some fun doing it.

I don’t use ANY form of racing history to select entries.
I normally don’t even know the names of the horses.
Entry numbers are just fine for betting purposes.

The Selection process involves monitoring the market at specific pre-post time intervals.
By comparing the individual Entry Values generated by the tote analysis with a singular PAR Value which represents all the money in the Mutual and Exacta or Quinella pools at any given time.

@ 18 mins to post - identify the entries getting the best early play
@ 10-12 mins to post - identify any changes or fluctuations that may have taken place.
@ 5-6 mins to post – identify final entries for play while monitoring their odds
(To determine Value for Passing or Playing.)

For Plays it then becomes a decision as to which type of bet to make; between a Dutch Win, Exacta, Quinella, Tri or Super Box based on using 2 Key (priority) entries with 2 or 3 others in the mix (for Exotics).

Time is really not an issue and I often monitor 2 or 3 tracks simultaneously just searching for the better valued races to play. I use 2 laptops, 1 for market monitoring and 1 for betting.

[Dave Schwartz]

Around 4 hours to handicap a 9 race card. Yes, that's a long time, but at the end I know why I like or dislike each horse's chances, or failing that know when I don't know. This makes the betting decisions less pressured. Having to decide on the handicapping opinions and how to bet a race, at the same time, can be a tough proposition subject to more error than I can tolerate.

Dave Schwartz - machine gun.
Me - six shooter with barrel seldom filled.

I have, in fact, been called that before.

People have even said, "Where's the fun in that?" The truth is, I watch every race and enjoy them immensely.

But, of course, there is no free lunch. I just choose to put my time into building The System and then I get to PLAY on race day. (Yes, it is fun... until it becomes work.)

[ReplayRandall]

Time is really not an issue and I often monitor 2 or 3 tracks simultaneously just searching for the better valued races to play. I use 2 laptops, 1 for market monitoring and 1 for betting.
So, you play 2 to 3 tracks simultaneously, but never watch a race if it's in the US, right?

[Nitro]

So, you play 2 to 3 tracks simultaneously, but never watch a race if it's in the US, right?When monitoring 2 or 3 tracks at the same time who has the time to watch the races? I'm NOT viewing the track tote boards. I viewing everything on line. Besides watching the races in the U.S. often becomes just another distraction.
You have a problem with focusing on the bottom-line?

[ReplayRandall]

When monitoring 2 or 3 tracks at the same time who has the time to watch the races? I'm NOT viewing the track tote boards. I viewing everything on line. Besides watching the races in the U.S. often becomes just another distraction.
You have a problem with focusing on the bottom-line?
You're a funny guy Nitro, you simply do things differently, but I would never trade places with you.....I simply outperform you, bottom-line and all..:cool:

[Nitro]

You're a funny guy Nitro, you simply do things differently, but I would never trade places with you.....I simply outperform you, bottom-line and all..:cool:
They're not only different, they're extremely efficient.

Now that's a laugh:D But keep dreaming! And "simply" keep it simple!

BTW, I'm beginning to understand why you chose "Replay" as part of your Username: Do you ever get tired of asking the same questions?:confused:

[ReplayRandall]

They're not only different, they're extremely efficient.

Now that's a laugh:D But keep dreaming! And "simply" keep it simple!

BTW, I'm beginning to understand why you chose "Replay" as part of your Username: Do you ever get tired of asking the same questions?:confused:
Excluding Hong Kong, when analyzing pools in the US, whose money do you think you're watching? You haven't a clue, just stick to HK and you'll be fine. I kept it "simple" for you so you'd understand...:pound::cool::pound:

[Nitro]

Excluding Hong Kong, when analyzing pools in the US, whose money do you think you're watching? You haven't a clue, just stick to HK and you'll be fine. I kept it "simple" for you so you'd understand...:pound::cool::pound:
I really don't care who's money it is, but I know it's certainly not yours! :lol:

I'll stick to whatever I choose, but HK racing is certainly light-years ahead of anything the local racing has to offer. Just look all of the pleasant and so positive threads on these forums. They're even talking about boycotts! LOL

We know what the answer is to the problems of local racing, but the U.S. racing jurisdictions are so splintered, greedy and ignorant to the needs of its patrons that its continued decline is inevitable . In the meantime, HK racing is flourishing like no other place else in the world!

[ReplayRandall]

We know what the answer is to the problems of local racing, but the U.S. racing jurisdictions are so splintered, greedy and ignorant to the needs of its patrons that its continued decline is inevitable . In the meantime, HK racing is flourishing like no other place else in the world!
This part of your post is 100% correct....And we'll just leave it at that.

[Cratos]

With COTS PC hardware, it would take us approximately 16h/race to arrive at a “solution”. With massively-parallel FPGA hardware that we've built in-house to iteratively thrash through PDEs, our computational time horizon is measured in seconds. Carbon unit face time: none.

We don't handicap races per se, we handicap a horse. By that we keep a list of horses that we think are ready to win and wager on the horse if its odds are 3-1 or greater and it is running in a Graded/Group stakes races.

The majority of our bets are on the NYRA circuit.

[EMD4ME]

We don't handicap races per se, we handicap a horse. By that we keep a list of horses that we think are ready to win and wager on the horse if its odds are 3-1 or greater and it is running in a Graded/Group stakes races.

The majority of our bets are on the NYRA circuit.

Cratos, no hidden reason, just wondering, did you and your team bet the Stymie?

[VigorsTheGrey]

With COTS PC hardware, it would take us approximately 16h/race to arrive at a “solution”. With massively-parallel FPGA hardware that we've built in-house to iteratively thrash through PDEs, our computational time horizon is measured in seconds. Carbon unit face time: none.

Does this mean that your wagers are executed WITHOUT carbon unit face time as well....?

Would it be safe to assume that your wagers involve....Arbitrage...?

[Elliott Sidewater]

I have, in fact, been called that before.

People have even said, "Where's the fun in that?" The truth is, I watch every race and enjoy them immensely.

But, of course, there is no free lunch. I just choose to put my time into building The System and then I get to PLAY on race day. (Yes, it is fun... until it becomes work.)

Dave: No offense meant in my post, it was just to point out that we are polar opposites in our approach. For many years I played alongside a successful pro whose style was like yours, just demonstrating that there is no one right way. The right way is the one found by oneself, for oneself.

Borrowing from an old phrase: If you don't know who you are, the <stock market, race track, casino, poker table> is a bad place to find out.

[biggestal99]

Bout 2 hours for me.

Get all my information together. Than start handicapping.

Approx 15 minutes a race. Give or take.

Shorter for maidens with limited pops

Longer for big claiming fields.

Allan

[Otealfr]

Does anybody keep track of largest average payoff race tracks in North America or know anyone else that does?. I have a method that picks a lot of long-shots but I need to find out which tracks have the highest so I could use my method there. Thanks and God bless you all.

[Dave Schwartz]

Dave: No offense meant in my post, it was just to point out that we are polar opposites in our approach. For many years I played alongside a successful pro whose style was like yours, just demonstrating that there is no one right way. The right way is the one found by oneself, for oneself.

Borrowing from an old phrase: If you don't know who you are, the <stock market, race track, casino, poker table> is a bad place to find out.

And certainly none taken.

[letswastemoney]

If it takes too long to handicap one race and there is no conclusion at the end, it probably isn't worth the time to figure it out.

[HuggingTheRail]

pen and paper, with some excel calculations

1 minute to decide if the race is worth pursuing (60%+ of my plays are maiden races)


About 15 minutes/race for an average field of 8....

[EMD4ME]

If it takes too long to handicap one race and there is no conclusion at the end, it probably isn't worth the time to figure it out.

I study many races I know I won't bet as it helps me get a better understanding of how the race should run (dynamically), which helps you assess a racetrack's possible bias.


Also, by keeping tabs on all runners at a circuit, you know them better as they race into the season.

[Exotic1]

1-3 minutes for my losers. 10-12 minutes to have a shot.

[whodoyoulike]

With :1: COTS PC hardware, it would take us approximately 16h/race to arrive at a “solution”. With :2: massively-parallel FPGA hardware that we've built in-house to iteratively thrash through :3: PDEs, our computational time horizon is measured in seconds. :4: Carbon unit face time: none.

No offense meant with this post and I know we've disagreed in the past but, your post doesn't make any sense to me.

I'll bite, what exactly do each of the numbered items really mean?

Also, you mention 16h/race and yet your computational time horizon is measured in seconds.

[Prof.Factor]

I believe it's tongue-in-cheek.
1) Commercial Off The Shelf hardware. (store bought)
2) Field Programmable Gate Array. (fancy processor)
3) Partial Differential Equations. (formulas)
4) non-human interface.

[Prof.Factor]

Does anybody keep track of largest average payoff race tracks in North America or know anyone else that does?. I have a method that picks a lot of long-shots but I need to find out which tracks have the highest so I could use my method there. Thanks and God bless you all.

He should start a new thread with this. I'm sure you'll get your answer.

[ultracapper]

Now if we could just get a simple definition for iteratively, (I believe he meant "interactively".)

But why use spell check when you're saying "we have a faster computer than you which we've programmed some cool algebraic equations into" in such a way that it makes it sound like they're actually sending a manned spacecraft to Venus?

[rsetup]

He should start a new thread with this. I'm sure you'll get your answer.

Why would he do that when he can post the same thing in 10 other threads?

[whodoyoulike]

I believe it's tongue-in-cheek.
1) Commercial Off The Shelf hardware. (store bought)
2) Field Programmable Gate Array. (fancy processor)
3) Partial Differential Equations. (formulas)
4) non-human interface.

Thanks, I never actually expected a response from him which has been SOP for him.

Now, why would it take 16h/race when the PDE's only take seconds?

Btw, thanks for responding.

[Prof.Factor]

Thanks, I never actually expected a response from him which has been SOP for him.

Now, why would it take 16h/race when the PDE's only take seconds?

Btw, thanks for responding.

He was speaking in jest. All fabricated.

[thaskalos]

He was speaking in jest. All fabricated.

Like his horseplaying career.

[whodoyoulike]

He was speaking in jest. All fabricated.

Again thanks and welcome to the forum.

Maybe all of his previous posts were just made in jest and all were fabricated. As previously mentioned he seldom explains his vague posts when asked.

Now, the question I have is .... who are you?

[Prof.Factor]

Again thanks and welcome to the forum.

Maybe all of his previous posts were just made in jest and all were fabricated. As previously mentioned he seldom explains his vague posts when asked.

Now, the question I have is .... who are you?

I am a nobody.
Retired computer programmer.

[Immortal6]

As new newcomer to horse racing and handicapping in general I find these discussions fascinating.

To answer the questions of the thread first: Just getting started, I do all my handicapping pen and paper and will watch replays for larger stakes races and it usually takes me anywhere from 10-20 minutes per race depending on the size of the field. I've realized that as a recreational player with a limited bankroll I'm best off just picking winners and playing exacta boxes with 2-3 horses, so there isn't too much time devoted to setting up wagers.

I'm very curious, for those of you that have be handicapping for years, how many of you have seen sustained success using pen/paper/replays??? I get the feeling reading many of these comments and from other threads that to see a consistent ROI most of you use some sort of software to aid in handicapping races?

[formula_2002]

I HANDICAP THE ONLINE TOTE BOARD.
I RUN MY PROGRAM UNTIL 1 OR 2 MINUETS TO POST, IT THEN TAKES ME LESS THAN 30 SECONDS

[EMD4ME]

As new newcomer to horse racing and handicapping in general I find these discussions fascinating.

To answer the questions of the thread first: Just getting started, I do all my handicapping pen and paper and will watch replays for larger stakes races and it usually takes me anywhere from 10-20 minutes per race depending on the size of the field. I've realized that as a recreational player with a limited bankroll I'm best off just picking winners and playing exacta boxes with 2-3 horses, so there isn't too much time devoted to setting up wagers.

I'm very curious, for those of you that have be handicapping for years, how many of you have seen sustained success using pen/paper/replays??? I get the feeling reading many of these comments and from other threads that to see a consistent ROI most of you use some sort of software to aid in handicapping races?

If I didn't watch replays, I would handle near nothing and be broke. BUT to each his/her own. I'm a visual need to know as much as I can psycho.

If I capped with pen/paper, I'd suck. I need my notes, hence DRF Formulator. Without it, I am completely dead to everything.

[Robert Fischer]

As new newcomer to horse racing and handicapping in general I find these discussions fascinating.

To answer the questions of the thread first: Just getting started, I do all my handicapping pen and paper and will watch replays for larger stakes races and it usually takes me anywhere from 10-20 minutes per race depending on the size of the field. I've realized that as a recreational player with a limited bankroll I'm best off just picking winners and playing exacta boxes with 2-3 horses, so there isn't too much time devoted to setting up wagers.

I'm very curious, for those of you that have be handicapping for years, how many of you have seen sustained success using pen/paper/replays??? I get the feeling reading many of these comments and from other threads that to see a consistent ROI most of you use some sort of software to aid in handicapping races?

The basic idea of profiting from any market environment, involves starting with an insight that clearly sees and understands the system, and then looking and waiting for systemic events to occur that we understand to be profitable.

Software, PPs, Replays, Formulator, Track Handicapper Analysis, Visual appraisal, Tote Board Info, etc..., etc... are all 'tools'.

I could have the best cooking equipment, and still not have a clue how to make great food. However, if I knew how to make great food, quality equipment would be a must, in order to have precision, quality, and efficient/fast use of time.

Always try to use the best tools.


on that note, why not go over-the-top with a quote from Baltasar Gracián :headbanger:

Use good Instruments. Some would have the subtlety of their wits proven by the meanness of their instruments. It is a dangerous satisfaction, and deserves a fatal punishment. The excellence of a minister never diminished the greatness of his lord. All the glory of exploits reverts to the principal actor; also all the blame. Fame only does business with principals. She does not say, "This had good, that had bad servants," but, "This was a good artist, that a bad one." Let your assistants be selected and tested therefore, for you have to trust to them for an immortality of fame.

[ultracapper]

The basic idea of profiting from any market environment, involves starting with an insight that clearly sees and understands the system, and then looking and waiting for systemic events to occur that we understand to be profitable.

Software, PPs, Replays, Formulator, Track Handicapper Analysis, Visual appraisal, Tote Board Info, etc..., etc... are all 'tools'.

I could have the best cooking equipment, and still not have a clue how to make great food. However, if I knew how to make great food, quality equipment would be a must, in order to have precision, quality, and efficient/fast use of time.

Always try to use the best tools.


on that note, why not go over-the-top with a quote from Baltasar Gracián :headbanger:

Use good Instruments. Some would have the subtlety of their wits proven by the meanness of their instruments. It is a dangerous satisfaction, and deserves a fatal punishment. The excellence of a minister never diminished the greatness of his lord. All the glory of exploits reverts to the principal actor; also all the blame. Fame only does business with principals. She does not say, "This had good, that had bad servants," but, "This was a good artist, that a bad one." Let your assistants be selected and tested therefore, for you have to trust to them for an immortality of fame.

The greatest example of this is the game of golf. Darn near every 15 handicap golfer you'll ever see has more money invested in their golf equipment than they do in their automobile. Why weekend warriors at that particular game must be decked out to the nines has always intrigued me.

[EMD4ME]

Hey everyone,

Just found this site and can't believe I haven't found it earlier. I've been capping for about 10 years now and still learning new things everyday while also trying to improve everyday. When I am looking at an entire card for a day it could take me up to 4 hours. Because it takes so long, and I have a 9-5, I rarely ever get to play a full card or even P4s and P6s. Was just curious how long it takes other to cap a single race or card? I know every race is different depending on the entries, but just looking for an idea. Look forward to being on these forums often and getting involved with the discussions.

10 extra hours a night, after factoring in this place :pound::bang:

[FakeNameChanged]

I HANDICAP THE ONLINE TOTE BOARD.
I RUN MY PROGRAM UNTIL 1 OR 2 MINUETS TO POST, IT THEN TAKES ME LESS THAN 30 SECONDS
You're betting now?

[Secondbest]

I think it takes me so long because I try to make a case for every horse, even when I shouldn't. If a horse doesn't stack up on class or figs, I may look at chart comments and see he stumbled or was wide throughout. Sometimes that is helpful to be put on long shots, but most of the time I feel like I'm wasting a lot of time on horses that most likely don't have a chance

Your not alone on that.