Art Sherman a joke after 40-50 years

[linrom1]

By entering DORTMUND into Kilroe Mile on Turf has shown himself to be an embarrassment to the racing community. What a way to throw your 40-50 year racing career down the drain?

Bob Baffert must be beyond himself! What an idiot this trainer is? With Santa Anita Hcp coming in very weak, he enters DORTMUND in a Grade 1 Turf race to shake it up with CONQUEST ENFORCER?

[cj]

By entering DORTMUND into Kilroe Mile on Turf has shown himself to be an embarrassment to the racing community. What a way to throw your 40-50 year racing career down the drain?

Bob Baffert must be beyond himself! What an idiot this trainer is? With Santa Anita Hcp coming in very weak, he enters DORTMUND in a Grade 1 Turf race to shake it up with CONQUEST ENFORCER?

Wow man, you are going way, way, way too far.

[PaceAdvantage]

That's our linrom1!

He's like Tom is, in off-topic...:lol:

[ultracapper]

I was hoping nobody would respond in this thread.

Nonsense.

[Cratos]

By entering DORTMUND into Kilroe Mile on Turf has shown himself to be an embarrassment to the racing community. What a way to throw your 40-50 year racing career down the drain?

Bob Baffert must be beyond himself! What an idiot this trainer is? With Santa Anita Hcp coming in very weak, he enters DORTMUND in a Grade 1 Turf race to shake it up with CONQUEST ENFORCER?

I don't believe the entering of Dortmund in the Kilroe Mile tainted Sherman's reputation in the least as a trainer; and whether you like or dislike California Chrome I believe Sherman saved the horse's career.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Big Brown offspring have banked roughly $20 million in purse money, 40% of which was earned on the turf. Dort's dam has produced two turf winners out of five foals. Sherman preferred this race to a 7-furlong dirt prep given that distance can be tricky off a layoff.

Crap post.

[horses4courses]

Yeah, it all came down to this race. :rolleyes:
40 years down the drain for experimenting.

There is a joke in all of this, though.
It's the OP for coming up with such a garbage post.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Art had the courage to try something new with Dortmund on the turf...assuming he was 100% fit (which it appeared he was) then his performance would likely be a true gauge of how well he liked to run on turf...One of my buddies thought he would do well based on his sire Big Brown doing well on grass....For me, he was a toss on the turf..but who could know for sure...but I was very surprised how truly dismal his effort was though, and it seemed the further they went, the poorer he ran....SO if Dortmund is healthy, one might conclude that grass IS NOT HIS THING...I'll bet dollars to donuts he never races on turf again...and the experiment is over...

[dilanesp]

Linrom would have hated Charlie Whittingham. Used to try everyone on the grass. Even ran Ack Ack, the best speed horse he ever had, on it. (Ack Ack won a minor stakes race on the turf.)

[Fager Fan]

Did Dort work on the turf at any point? I've never understood running a horse on a surface without first training over it if possible. Why potentially throw away a race without knowing if your horse at least indicated in a work over the surface that he liked it?

[Si2see]

The only thing that bothers me with these kinds of posts is that they are always after the fact.....

If you knew Dortmund wasn't going to run well before the fact you should/could have cleaned up in that race.

Jason

[Spalding No!]

Did Dort work on the turf at any point? I've never understood running a horse on a surface without first training over it if possible. Why potentially throw away a race without knowing if your horse at least indicated in a work over the surface that he liked it?
Santa Anita no longer opens the turf course up in the morning for workouts.

[NY Racing Fan]

I thought he was bred fine for grass and could have been a strong presence in those middle distance grass races. I guess I was wrong. Don't see why Art Sherman needs to be criticized. Nothing wrong with trying, especially during this time of year.

[elhelmete]

Santa Anita no longer opens the turf course up in the morning for workouts.

My understanding in general is that any track's turf courses are closed for workouts except for horses training for a stakes race. I'd love to be corrected if not true.

[Spalding No!]

My understanding in general is that any track's turf courses are closed for workouts except for horses training for a stakes race. I'd love to be corrected if not true.
Typically, yes, that's true, although at Belmont I believe one can gallop in the infield of the main track daily if they are brave enough (I'm not sure how well its maintained).

However in the case of Santa Anita, which would open for turf works a couple of days a week previously, turf works of any kind have not been permitted since the new turf course was installed.

[SuperPickle]

By entering DORTMUND into Kilroe Mile on Turf has shown himself to be an embarrassment to the racing community. What a way to throw your 40-50 year racing career down the drain?

Bob Baffert must be beyond himself! What an idiot this trainer is? With Santa Anita Hcp coming in very weak, he enters DORTMUND in a Grade 1 Turf race to shake it up with CONQUEST ENFORCER?


I'm just curious down at the fast food place you work at when they fire the guy before you do you then take over his job and do the EXACT same thing?

Because I'm just saying THAT's probably not the right way to do it.

Btw... I once asked Graham Motion how he decides which horses to try on the turf. His response was "I try to get all of them on the turf because until they race on it you haven't the slightest idea if they'll handle it."

[elhelmete]

Typically, yes, that's true, although at Belmont I believe one can gallop in the infield of the main track daily if they are brave enough (I'm not sure how well its maintained).

However in the case of Santa Anita, which would open for turf works a couple of days a week previously, turf works of any kind have not been permitted since the new turf course was installed.

Except even on the 'old' turf course I can't remember any turf works either, except in the weeks leading up to a big weekend AND around dogs AND for horses nominated to stakes. At least in my memory this goes back at least 15 years.

[Franco Santiago]

Who cares what Art Sherman does, or ANY trainer for that matter, to the extent that we are just trying to win money. Ridiculous.

And I am pretty sure Art doesn't give a damn what we think of his training skill. I couldn't care less if Art entered a horse in the Indy 500. Makes no difference in my life.

Sheesh.

[Spalding No!]

Except even on the 'old' turf course I can't remember any turf works either, except in the weeks leading up to a big weekend AND around dogs AND for horses nominated to stakes. At least in my memory this goes back at least 15 years.
Santa Anita's turf course was open twice a week every week as far as I recall. Normally the horse had to be nominated to a stakes, but I'm sure they looked the other way every now and again. You had to request a spot to work too if I recall correctly. Turf works were suspended at the start of last year's meet.

[SuperPickle]

Santa Anita's turf course was open twice a week every week as far as I recall. Normally the horse had to be nominated to a stakes, but I'm sure they looked the other way every now and again. You had to request a spot to work too if I recall correctly. Turf works were suspended at the start of last year's meet.

I thought they eliminated any turf gallops or works after Hollywood closed and they went to the longer meet. The old rule was graded stakes nominees could use it once a week weather permitting.

Aside from training centers like Palm Beach Downs and Payson and maybe Fair Hill the only track I know of with turf works is the Oklahoma track at Saratoga

[elhelmete]

Thanks for the clarifications. I wasn't aware that it wasn't quite as limited as I thought.

[Inner Dirt]

The only thing that bothers me with these kinds of posts is that they are always after the fact.....

If you knew Dortmund wasn't going to run well before the fact you should/could have cleaned up in that race.

Jason


That would be my take. If a trainer enters a high profile horse in the wrong spot and that horse pulls money away from a horse I like I am going to be nothing but happy. From me it would be a "Thank you very much" to the trainer putting a horse in the wrong spot, I would never think of going on the web and bad mouthing him. Pretty sure everyone in here has a few failed experiments under their belt in their professional lives. I know I do.

[dilanesp]

That would be my take. If a trainer enters a high profile horse in the wrong spot and that horse pulls money away from a horse I like I am going to be nothing but happy. From me it would be a "Thank you very much" to the trainer putting a horse in the wrong spot, I would never think of going on the web and bad mouthing him. Pretty sure everyone in here has a few failed experiments under their belt in their professional lives. I know I do.

Also, sometimes the experiment works. I remember when Bill Mott shifted Cigar back to the dirt....

[whodoyoulike]

Sherman did this with CC and he won.

[thespaah]

Did Dort work on the turf at any point? I've never understood running a horse on a surface without first training over it if possible. Why potentially throw away a race without knowing if your horse at least indicated in a work over the surface that he liked it?

Dortmund's latest works.
All at Los Al.
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9371396&registry=T&rbt=TB
Sherman has gone from 5f to 6f and the last work was 7f.
I have to assume since there is no Turf course at Los Al, well.
I look at this is one of those "why not? Let's give it a try" races.

[Fager Fan]

Dortmund's latest works.
All at Los Al.
http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9371396&registry=T&rbt=TB
Sherman has gone from 5f to 6f and the last work was 7f.
I have to assume since there is no Turf course at Los Al, well.
I look at this is one of those "why not? Let's give it a try" races.

I thought he could've worked over turf at SA. I didn't realize they'd stoped turf works.

[Andy Asaro]

First of all Art Sherman is a class act and one of the nicest people in Horse Racing. I believe he's about the only Trainer that could have put up with the Dumb Ass Stables over the last several years.

Dortmund is done just like Masochistic is done as top level runners IMO. I also think that running Dortmund in the Triple Crown races was a big mistake (Maybe not the Derby). On top of that Sherman isn't gonna move up any horse off Baffert. The only ones who seem to move up his horses are when they're taken to another jurisdiction that has different rules on meds and various other allowable treatments.

[whodoyoulike]

... I also think that running Dortmund in the Triple Crown races was a big mistake (Maybe not the Derby). ...

I don't know about this. Up to the Derby, he was beating everyone in a convincing fashion. He just was born in the wrong year, IMO.

Btw, welcome back.

[rsetup]

Btw... I once asked Graham Motion how he decides which horses to try on the turf. His response was "I try to get all of them on the turf because until they race on it you haven't the slightest idea if they'll handle it."

Exactly right.:rolleyes:

It's a dart throwing proposition for Motion. :lol:

[SuperPickle]

Exactly right.:rolleyes:

It's a dart throwing proposition for Motion. :lol:

The point people forget is the well bred horses run on it all. Northern Dancer, Storm Cat, Danzig. Those things ran great on turf or dirt.

Look at Tapit or Giant's Causeway. Turf, Synthetic, or Dirt they run.

[Fratman]

FYI --- Dortmund has foot issues and has had them for awhile which Sherman admitted and Baffert talked about when he had him.

Think he just gave him a race and agree with another person here he is not the same horse.

[onefast99]

I thought they eliminated any turf gallops or works after Hollywood closed and they went to the longer meet. The old rule was graded stakes nominees could use it once a week weather permitting.

Aside from training centers like Palm Beach Downs and Payson and maybe Fair Hill the only track I know of with turf works is the Oklahoma track at SaratogaPalm Meadows is available everyday but Wednesdays and Thursdays. Most every other track allows you to go on the turf if you are in an upcoming Stakes race.