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menifee
03-12-2017, 01:47 AM
Any former jockeys here? I'm always curious how jockeys on speed horses who get clear early leads could let a horse come up the rail and pass them at any point during the race. Mike Smith on Masochistic was an example of that today, but it happens on all levels of racing. If you are a speed horse and clear the field, shouldn't you automatically move your horse down to the rail. To let inside speed ever challenge you seems insane as shouldn't you require the horses behind you find room rather than giving them the shortest route to the finish line?

Jeff P
03-12-2017, 02:10 PM
I'm not a former jockey.

But I am a horseplayer who (since about 1981) has (at times) taken some pretty detailed notes about the trips jockeys have given the horses I wager on.

I think the answer to your question depends on the situation.

I also think that track profile - or more specifically early/late bias and inside/outside path bias - has a huge influence on where - relative to the rail - a rider should place the horse if the objective is to wire the field.

On some surfaces there are periods when the rail is dead.

On the same surface, oddly enough, there are also periods when the rail is live.

Understand that the prevailing track profile is subject to change because it is influenced by things such as materials composition of the surface, moisture content of the surface, track maintenance, banking of the turns, placement of the gate relative to the first turn, and the weather (wind, rain, snow, temp, humidity, etc.)

I've watched a ton of video - and I'm convinced that at least half of all riders are either completely unaware what the best trip is given the prevailing track profile - either that or they simply don't care.

I'm also convinced that if they are riding to instructions - whoever is giving instructions is also completely unaware of the prevailing track profile.

However, I'm also convinced there are a handful of riders at most circuits who are highly aware of the prevailing track profile where they are riding day in and day out.

I say that because I consistently see them giving their mounts good trips relative to the prevailing track profile where they ride.

Ok. All of that said - on to your question:
If you are a speed horse and clear the field, shouldn't you automatically move your horse down to the rail?

I say it depends on the situation.

When the rail is dead: I say the last thing you want is a rider who automatically glues the horse to a dead rail after making the top.

About 98 percent of the time that I see a rider do this, the other contenders simply line up to the leader's outside, and pressure that horse into submission going around the turn - with the predictable result being that the leader becomes completely gassed by the time they hit the top of the stretch.

If you want to see repeated examples of that just watch the replays of last night's (Sat 03-11-2017) Penn National card.

Be aware that when the rail is dead your chances of wiring a field are greatly reduced. But I've seen it done many times.

I say your best chance to wire a field with a need the lead type when the rail is dead is with a rider who breaks sharply and instantly makes the top - but instead of going to the rail - tips the horse outward - and in the process intimidates the other riders into backing off just a bit - and then navigates the turns from the three or four path with the horse's head facing outward.

I also prefer a rider whose first move at the top of the stretch is left handed stick (instead of right handed) coming out of the turn.

On the other hand, when the rail is live, then obviously the last thing you want is a rider who vacates a golden rail.

But then again, the decision of where to place a horse in order to get the best trip - that requires awareness of what the best trip is in the first place.



-jp

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johnhannibalsmith
03-12-2017, 02:27 PM
Just to add one little bit to the latter part of Jeff's post - if you have a horse that you want to relax on the lead, the rail is often not the ideal place to put a lot of horses. The rail is ingrained as the place where the action happens. Personally I love it when I see a sprinter stretching to a route in particular be used to make the lead but kept a few paths off the fence to try to get the horse to relax or stay relaxed on his own.

cj
03-12-2017, 03:07 PM
Jeff,

That was a lot of words to say to stay off the inside when the rail is bad. :)

Jeff P
03-12-2017, 04:15 PM
I know. :)

But watch the replay of AQU R6 from just a few minutes ago.

The rail isn't dead today. (So today is a little different than the dead rail situation I described in my post.)

That said, Jose Ortiz did pretty much everything right given today's good rail in getting the #2 horse Wonderful Savvy to wire the field... broke alertly, hustled out of the gate to secure the rail, had the horse's head tipped slightly outward going around the far turn, first move at the top of the stretch was left handed stick not right handed - which in my opinion encouraged the horse to re-break.

Textbook stuff if you want to see what a rider should be doing to wire a field on a day when the rail is good.

Meanwhile, watch Rajiv aboard the #1 Jetsam Six at 6-5... no left hand in the stretch... and lost a nose photo for the show spot to Hector Diaz who earned the show spot by urging his mount left handed through the stretch.

My post was as long as it was because there's way more going on during the running of a race than most of us might think.



-jp

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Cratos
03-12-2017, 06:21 PM
I know. :)

But watch the replay of AQU R6 from just a few minutes ago.

The rail isn't dead today. (So today is a little different than the dead rail situation I described in my post.)

That said, Jose Ortiz did pretty much everything right given today's good rail in getting the #2 horse Wonderful Savvy to wire the field... broke alertly, hustled out of the gate to secure the rail, had the horse's head tipped slightly outward going around the far turn, first move at the top of the stretch was left handed stick not right handed - which in my opinion encouraged the horse to re-break.

Textbook stuff if you want to see what a rider should be doing to wire a field on a day when the rail is good.

Meanwhile, watch Rajiv aboard the #1 Jetsam Six at 6-5... no left hand in the stretch... and lost a nose photo for the show spot to Hector Diaz who earned the show spot by urging his mount left handed through the stretch.

My post was as long as it was because there's way more going on during the running of a race than most of us might think.



-jp

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Good post Jeff, but some horses do not like running near the rail whether it is in a crowd of horses or clear by themselves; there are two well-known trainers on the NYRA circuit that I personally know had such horses.

EMD4ME
03-12-2017, 06:33 PM
JEFF P, I can listen to you speak (or type) forever. LOVE IT, GREAT STUFF :ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

AWESOME THOUGHTS !!! It's those nuances that I love.

Exotic1
03-12-2017, 07:09 PM
Any former jockeys here? I'm always curious how jockeys on speed horses who get clear early leads could let a horse come up the rail and pass them at any point during the race. Mike Smith on Masochistic was an example of that today, but it happens on all levels of racing. If you are a speed horse and clear the field, shouldn't you automatically move your horse down to the rail. To let inside speed ever challenge you seems insane as shouldn't you require the horses behind you find room rather than giving them the shortest route to the finish line?


I'm not disagreeing with you about your point, in general. But specifically in the Triple Bend yesterday, most people playing the race thought (and rightfully so) that if Masochistic runs his race, in that he gets out cleanly and opens a comfortable lead, that no one can beat him. Smith probably had Masochistic in the 2 1/2 path forcing any challenger to go outside of him and loose ground. So by not staying glued to the rail and you're on Masochistic you accomplish three things 1) you corner much better (centrifugal force thing) 2) you force your competition to go wide 3) if your competition decides to take the short route home you force them into a very tight and uncomfortable position where they can't accelerate past you going into the turn and where they're expending energy just trying not to push you out of your 2 path. That being said, Denman's Call ran an insane race. He went inside of Masochistic which would be the wrong move in 90% of the cases. The horse ran an incredible race to beat Masochistic. Would he have won if he went outside of Masochistic while Masochistic stayed in the 2 1/2 path, probably. However, if Masochistic went into the 1 path and stayed glued to the rail, Denman's Call wins much easier. Masochistic would have had to cut down on accelerating into the turn while DC would have been riding the 3 path into the turn allowing for some acceleration. Denman's Call ran an insane race. Supposedly, he was working great. jmo.

menifee
03-12-2017, 08:04 PM
Thanks to all for the insight. Really good information and good to get some different perspectives.

WALLENDA
03-13-2017, 01:04 PM
I remember some people being upset when Smith let Union Rags come up the rail to beat Paynter in the Belmont.

ultracapper
03-13-2017, 01:41 PM
TBaze will always be lurking on the rail. Any other jock and Smith's strategy may have been right on the money. Baze is making a career waiting for that very hole.