China is why

[Show Me the Wire]

we need to have Russia as an ally. China's recent backing of North Korea's aggression toward our allies and effectively saying we cannot protect our allies from North Korean aggression by installing a missile defense system.

Every knows North Korea is a client state of China. Yet China has no problem with its client state acting aggressively in conjunction with China militarizing the China Sea.

China is the real threat, not Russia.

[elysiantraveller]

we need to have Russia as an ally. China's recent backing of North Korea's aggression toward our allies and effectively saying we cannot protect our allies from North Korean aggression by installing a missile defense system.

Every knows North Korea is a client state of China. Yet China has no problem with its client state acting aggressively in conjunction with China militarizing the China Sea.

China is the real threat, not Russia.

Huh...?

I did not understand anything you were trying to say in your first point.

[Show Me the Wire]

Huh...?

I did not understand anything you were trying to say in your first point.

Have you been following the current developments in the region relating to North Korea's missile launches and their stated intentions?

[davew]

It is a good thing 0bama gave Iran billions of dollars. Now Iran and North Korea can join forces in their developments.

[Show Me the Wire]

It is a good thing 0bama gave Iran billions of dollars. Now Iran and North Korea can join forces in their developments.

Actually, they have been prior to Obama's Iranian funding. Obama just gave them the money for easier facilitation.

Does anybody believe the quick advancement of North Korea's in technology since Obama's funding of Iran coincidental? A country which could hardly launch a missile without it exploding on the launch pad can now launch a ballistic missile that can reach Japan.

[elysiantraveller]

Have you been following the current developments in the region relating to North Korea's missile launches and their stated intentions?

I'll parse for you...

"we need to have Russia as an ally."

Why...?

"China's recent backing of North Korea's aggression toward our allies"

China condemned the launch. Furthermore, Russia gives zero craps about our allies in the region completely rendering your premise useless.

"and effectively saying we cannot protect our allies from North Korean aggression by installing a missile defense system."

Please explain how installing missile defense systems is a declaration we cannot defend our allies.

[elysiantraveller]

Actually, they have been prior to Obama's Iranian funding. Obama just gave them the money for easier facilitation.

Does anybody believe the quick advancement of North Korea's in technology since Obama's funding of Iran coincidental? A country which could hardly launch a missile without it exploding on the launch pad can now launch a ballistic missile that can reach Japan.

:lol::lol::lol:

Quick Advancement?!?!?!

:lol::lol::lol:

Yup... Obama did it...

[Show Me the Wire]

I'll parse for you...

"we need to have Russia as an ally."

Why...?

"China's recent backing of North Korea's aggression toward our allies"

China condemned the launch. Furthermore, Russia gives zero craps about our allies in the region completely rendering your premise useless.

"and effectively saying we cannot protect our allies from North Korean aggression by installing a missile defense system."

Please explain how installing missile defense systems is a declaration we cannot defend our allies.

China stated the U.S. sill suffer consequences for installing the missile defense system as China views it as a threat to China. Effectively saying the U.S. should not take measures to defend our allies and our military bases from the missile threats from North Korea or there will be consequences.

China has been aggressive in the South China Sea warning the U.S. not to operate in the area, stole an U.S. underwater drone, built an island military base and now warns the U.S. not to implement a missile defense system to counter real threats from its client state North Korea.

China is our enemy, they are a communist country and have a political ideology which conflicts with our political ideology of a constitutional republic.

[OntheRail]

:lol::lol::lol:

Quick Advancement?!?!?!

:lol::lol::lol:

Yup... Obama did it...

He sure as *uck aided abetted.

[Show Me the Wire]

:lol::lol::lol:

Quick Advancement?!?!?!

:lol::lol::lol:

Yup... Obama did it...

Technology costs money, especial ballistic missile technology. It is a intelligence fact Iran and North Korea have been cooperating in their missile programs.

Now Iran has lots of U.S. money thanks to Obama and both countries have substantially advanced in their missile technology.

[Show Me the Wire]

Quick Advancement?!?!?!


What type of advancement would you quantify, it as from June 2016 of having 4 straight ballistic missiles blow up on the launch pad to having the capability to reach Japan in less than a year with its ballistic missile?

North Korea failed to launch a ballistic missile without it blowing up, on the launch pad, in October and November of 2016.

I call it quick advancement from November 2016, considering North Korea has been trying, for years, without success to develop a ballistic missile. The only new wrinkle is the money given to Iran, its partner, by Obama.

[thaskalos]

IMO...no other country has shown the aggression that the United States have shown in recent years. The United States have gone to war against other countries without adequate provocation...the United States currently have an entire laundry list of "enemy countries" whom they consider "hostile"...and the United States have the right to launch a "preemptive" attack against these countries...which is a "right" that no other country in the world has attained for itself.

When you are a country that the United States casts an angry eye upon...then, you got a problem. And...you either arm yourself...or you sit there like a sitting duck. Like Iraq was.

[Show Me the Wire]

IMO...no other country has shown the aggression that the United States have shown in recent years. The United States have gone to war against other countries without adequate provocation...the United States currently have an entire laundry list of "enemy countries" whom they consider "hostile"...and the United States have the right to launch a "preemptive" attack against these countries...which is a "right" that no other country in the world has attained for itself.

When you are a country that the United States casts an angry eye upon...then, you got a problem. And...you either arm yourself...or you sit there like a sitting duck. Like Iraq was.

I agree. That is why I support our current President about the sovereignty of other countries.

[elysiantraveller]

What type of advancement would you quantify, it as from June 2016 of having 4 straight ballistic missiles blow up on the launch pad to having the capability to reach Japan in less than a year with its ballistic missile?

North Korea failed to launch a ballistic missile without it blowing up, on the launch pad, in October and November of 2016.

I call it quick advancement from November 2016, considering North Korea has been trying, for years, without success to develop a ballistic missile. The only new wrinkle is the money given to Iran, its partner, by Obama.

North Korea has had the ability to strike Japan for about 9 years.

You have pure speculation that has nothing to do with anything except for an attempt to attack Obama for something involving Iran of all places.

[Show Me the Wire]

North Korea has had the ability to strike Japan for about 9 years.

You have pure speculation that has nothing to do with anything except for an attempt to attack Obama for something involving Iran of all places.

I have facts. As of November of 2016 North Korea could not successfully launch a ballistic missile and with in a very short time North Korea cannot only successfully launch a ballistic missile but hit a bullet with a bullet (ballistic missile).

The intelligence agencies state Iran and North Korea are cooperating with each other regarding their missile programs.

China threatened the U.S. with consequences for the deployment of a missile defense system in South Korea and Japan.

Missile technology is expensive. Iran who is partnering with North Korea in missile development technology received money from Obama. The intervening circumstance between North Korea's repeated failures in missile technology and its very successful advance in 4 months is Obama's gift of money to Iran.

[thaskalos]

I have facts. As of November of 2016 North Korea could not successfully launch a ballistic missile and with in a very short time North Korea cannot only successfully launch a ballistic missile but hit a bullet with a bullet (ballistic missile).

The intelligence agencies state Iran and North Korea are cooperating with each other regarding their missile programs.

China threatened the U.S. with consequences for the deployment of a missile defense system in South Korea and Japan.

Missile technology is expensive. Iran who is partnering with North Korea in missile development technology received money from Obama. The intervening circumstance between North Korea's repeated failures in missile technology and its very successful advance in 4 months is Obama's gift of money to Iran.

Are these the same "Intelligence agencies" that got us involved in the war with Iraq? Are THOSE your "facts"?

[_______]

I have facts. As of November of 2016 North Korea could not successfully launch a ballistic missile and with in a very short time North Korea cannot only successfully launch a ballistic missile but hit a bullet with a bullet (ballistic missile).

The intelligence agencies state Iran and North Korea are cooperating with each other regarding their missile programs.

China threatened the U.S. with consequences for the deployment of a missile defense system in South Korea and Japan.

Missile technology is expensive. Iran who is partnering with North Korea in missile development technology received money from Obama. The intervening circumstance between North Korea's repeated failures in missile technology and its very successful advance in 4 months is Obama's gift of money to Iran.

North Korea put a satellite in orbit in 2011.

You seem to conflate recent failures that every nation which has the technology to launch a missle experience on occasion with never having had the technology.

SpaceX had a rocket blow up during an engine test late last year. Yet they just managed to deliver cargo to the ISS. Like they had before the failed test. It wasn't a sudden injection of new knowledge or technology that allowed them to do what they had already done before.

Your facts are incomplete and logic flawed.

[Show Me the Wire]

Are these the same "Intelligence agencies" that got us involved in the war with Iraq? Are THOSE your "facts"?

Same as in same employees and appointed positions and same agenda? Again I have no personal knowledge.

[Show Me the Wire]

North Korea put a satellite in orbit in 2011.

You seem to conflate recent failures that every nation which has the technology to launch a missle experience on occasion with never having had the technology.

SpaceX had a rocket blow up during an engine test late last year. Yet they just managed to deliver cargo to the ISS. Like they had before the failed test. It wasn't a sudden injection of new knowledge or technology that allowed them to do what they had already done before.

Your facts are incomplete and logic flawed.

Talk about conflating. Blasting a rocket into space is entirely different than a ballistic missile meant to deliver a war head and hit a bullet with a bullet, when for years failed, up to and including about 4 months ago to even launch the missile.

The technological leap North Korea made is akin to going from horse and buggy to the modern automobile in a matter of months.

[thaskalos]

Same as in same employees and appointed positions and same agenda? Again I have no personal knowledge.

If you have no "personal knowledge"...then, should you be saying that "you have facts"?

[Show Me the Wire]

If you have no "personal knowledge"...then, should you be saying that "you have facts"?

My personal knowledge regarding the agenda of the intelligence agencies, does not preclude their conclusions from being facts.

[_______]

Talk about conflating. Blasting a rocket into space is entirely different than a ballistic missile meant to deliver a war head and hit a bullet with a bullet, when for years, up to and including about 4 months ago to even launch the missile.

The technological leap North Korea made is akin to going from horse and buggy to the modern automobile in a matter of months.


Hitting a bullet with a bullet is terminology used in anti-missle technology to describe an interceptor striking an incoming ballistic missle. Think Patriot system.

I have no idea what you are trying to say since the North Koreans launched into the ocean. You're saying they have advanced technology that allows them to precisely target a body of water? How do you know they hit the square millimeter targeted given your bullet with a bullet analogy?

They started launching missles in 2005 and have had some failures and some successes ever since. They are incrementally advancing their capabilities. But it's complete nonsense that the recent launches were some giant leap forward.

Get a grip on the facts.

[Show Me the Wire]

Hitting a bullet with a bullet is terminology used in anti-missle technology to describe an interceptor striking an incoming ballistic missle. Think Patriot system.

I have no idea what you are trying to say since the North Koreans launched into the ocean. You're saying they have advanced technology that allows them to precisely target a body of water? How do you know they hit the square millimeter targeted given your bullet with a bullet analogy?

They started launching missles in 2005 and have had some failures and some successes ever since. They are incrementally advancing their capabilities. But it's complete nonsense that the recent launches were some giant leap forward.

Get a grip on the facts.

Okay I will. China is still our enemy supporting a rogue client state.

[thaskalos]

My personal knowledge regarding the agenda of the intelligence agencies, does not preclude their conclusions from being facts.

Yes. The conclusions of these "intelligence agencies" can be fully accepted as "facts". Take them to the bank! :ThmbUp:

[Show Me the Wire]

Yes. The conclusions of these "intelligence agencies" can be fully accepted as "facts". Take them to the bank! :ThmbUp:

In this case, I have not heard any disagreement over the partnership of North Korea and Iran regarding missile technology.

Of course one cannot accept everything as absolute facts, however, it is interesting both Iran and North Korea are currently successfully launching ballistic missiles in these past few days.

[riskman]

Do you have a source that you can link that indicates that Iran is funding North Korea tests comcerning missle launches? Is this your opinion?
I had read somewhere, that South Korea is entering discussions with the U.S.
concerning the devolpment of using the THAAD anti ballistic missle system
which smashes into enemy missles inside or outside the Earths atmosphere
during the final flight phase.You can read about THAAD on line. Of course,
Russia and China oppose this system for good reason.
The recent UN sanctions on North Korea has hurt them economically but their deranged leader does not care what happens to its commie citizens. China endorsed these sanctions put on by the UN.
North Korea will continue to test their missles and to devolpe nuclear capability. How do we stop them? The THAAD missle might be start.

[Show Me the Wire]

Google iran north korea nuclear cooperation. Plenty of stories about their cooperation in nuclear development and missiles.

Is it far fetched to opine there is financial cooperation to advance their goal?

[Greyfox]

Former A.G. Michael Mukasey said last week that the biggest threat to America,
in his opinion, is the possible development by North Korea of a satellite that is capable of carrying a nuclear weapon.
That sort of weaponry could knock out America's power grid infrastructure and leave America very vulnerable.

[Show Me the Wire]

Former A.G. Michael Mukasey said last week that the biggest threat to America,
in his opinion, is the possible development by North Korea of a satellite that is capable of carrying a nuclear weapon.
That sort of weaponry could knock out America's power grid infrastructure and leave America very vulnerable.

And all of this development is under the approving gaze of the Chinese.

[davew]

Hitting a bullet with a bullet is terminology used in anti-missle technology to describe an interceptor striking an incoming ballistic missle. Think Patriot system.

I have no idea what you are trying to say since the North Koreans launched into the ocean. You're saying they have advanced technology that allows them to precisely target a body of water? How do you know they hit the square millimeter targeted given your bullet with a bullet analogy?

They started launching missles in 2005 and have had some failures and some successes ever since. They are incrementally advancing their capabilities. But it's complete nonsense that the recent launches were some giant leap forward.

Get a grip on the facts.

They hit a barge they left in the middle of the ocean.

[Show Me the Wire]

They hit a barge they left in the middle of the ocean.

Yes, they did with the second missile, while the first one missed.

[_______]

Yes, they did with the second missile, while the first one missed.

You guys are hilarious. You should consider a night club act.

[davew]

You guys are hilarious. You should consider a night club act.

It isn't funny yet until some politicians get jailed, then it will be funny watching more libs crying for their fallen heroes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh209ibvNsY

[Show Me the Wire]

You guys are hilarious. You should consider a night club act.


Always appreciate the intellectual argument of kicking a rock and saying I refute you thus.

[_______]

Always appreciate the intellectual argument of kicking a rock and saying I refute you thus.

You aren't serious. You can't be.

The idea proposed is so stupid I just assumed it was a troll. I still do.

[fast4522]

IMO...no other country has shown the aggression that the United States have shown in recent years. The United States have gone to war against other countries without adequate provocation...the United States currently have an entire laundry list of "enemy countries" whom they consider "hostile"...and the United States have the right to launch a "preemptive" attack against these countries...which is a "right" that no other country in the world has attained for itself.

When you are a country that the United States casts an angry eye upon...then, you got a problem. And...you either arm yourself...or you sit there like a sitting duck. Like Iraq was.

Maybe, sometimes offensive has more to it than defensive. Your a guy who thinks these folks just want to have fun in peace. Most of the time there are no correct answers to be found, the standard one is to do nothing. Obama enjoyed that answer along with a few lines in the sand, except for Muammar Mohammed Abu Minyar Gaddafi. Again the Bilderburg Group got its way, again very bad result. Forget the current jerkoff in North Korea, the story there are mistakes made to bribe that shithole into being nice has gone way back many years. Can this President act independent of the Bilderburg Group and make a few good calls, and if he does would he be properly credited for the best result that could have been able? I credit JFK for getting the best result when things looked really bad, others quick to put him down for being too much of a man with weaknesses. At least this thread has some intelligence beyond the normal.

[fast4522]

It isn't funny yet until some politicians get jailed, then it will be funny watching more libs crying for their fallen heroes.

Ass backwards.

[elysiantraveller]

Okay.... time for some actual FACTS.

1) North Korea has had medium range ballistic missiles for about a decade now.

2) The ability to place an object in ORBIT is EXTREMELY difficult.

3) The deployment of Anti-Missile Defense systems is considered an aggressive act.... look up the ABM Treaty and the logic of why it was created. By international standards on nuclear armaments your boy Trump is technically the aggressor. (I agree with his decision)

4) The idea of "putting a nuke in space" to mess with an electrical grid sounds like something a high schooler might talk about. In actuality ballistic missiles by their definition reach low orbit. On top of that the deployment of nuclear weapons at high-altitude to create electro-magnetic pulses below has been an adopted strategy of both the United States and the Soviet Union dating back to the late 60's.... glad to see North Korea is on board with plan. PS) China has the ability to do it as well.

Please stop with the moronic "facts." Information on this stuff is readily available in a litany of sources that aren't considered Fake or Faux News... spanning decades I might add.

[Greyfox]

The ability to place a satellite with a bomb in ORBIT is a lot easier than trying to hit a distant target with a ballistic missile. FACT!

[elysiantraveller]

The ability to place a satellite with a bomb in ORBIT is a lot easier than trying to hit a distant target with a ballistic missile. FACT!

Based on?

Germany was able to do it in 1945.

[fast4522]

The ability to place a satellite with a bomb in ORBIT is a lot easier than trying to hit a distant target with a ballistic missile. FACT!

That one makes a good movie but is not the new technology being developed today. Those programs involving satellite technology are not munitions in orbit but are cutting edge new technology. Rest assured new weapon systems are ready to be tested on the next group of morons who try to push the world to the brink of extinction. Unlike ballistic missiles the new technology will have greater damage to the country and its people who actually is foolish enough to move first with dated technology.

[Greyfox]

Based on fact, wisdom and science.
A rocket only has to travel just over 125 miles into Space to launch a satellite that can orbit the earth, higher for it to remain stationary.
The distance from North Korea to San Francisco is over 5,000 miles.
Go figure and rethink what you have stated.
The fact is, it is easier to orbit a satellite with a nuclear bomb for North Korea than to strike a target on mainland America with a ballistic missile. FACT.

[elysiantraveller]

Based on fact, wisdom and science.
A rocket only has to travel just over 125 miles into Space to launch a satellite that can orbit the earth, higher for it to remain stationary.
The distance from North Korea to San Francisco is over 5,000 miles.
Go figure and rethink what you have stated.
The fact is, it is easier to orbit a satellite with a nuclear bomb for North Korea than to strike a target on mainland America with a ballistic missile. FACT.

Grab some books on the matter.

Ps) even if you were right (you aren't) what is the point you're trying to make here?

[Greyfox]

Grab some books on the matter.

Ps) even if you were right (you aren't) what is the point you're trying to make here?

The point was made in posts #28 and #29.

[elysiantraveller]

The point was made in posts #28 and #29.

Repeat it. I didn't see one.

The fact that EMPs can be generated by nuclear detonations? That's been common knowledge for about 60 years now.

[Tom]

Of course one cannot accept everything as absolute facts, however, it is interesting both Iran and North Korea are currently successfully launching ballistic missiles in these past few days.

Some absolute facts - N Korea and Iran are not civilized nations and cannot be rusted on anything at any time.

They are are our enemies, always will be, and anyone who supports them or aids will also be our enemies.

IE, Barack Obama, the worlds financier of terror.

The Axis of Evil is N Korea, Iran, China.

[Show Me the Wire]

Japan wants first strike capability due to the recent advancements int North Korea missile technology. Guess Japan forgot North Korea has had this ballistic missile technology for ten years.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-as-north-korea-missile-threat-grows-japan-lawmakers-argue-for-first-strike-options-2017-3

Here is another fact pointing toward recent technological advances since November 2016. Solid fuel. Prior to the latest launch North Korea's solid fuel weapons were limited to submarine-launched ballistic missile that the country test-fired last August and short-range KN-02 missiles and were very limited in number. Why? Too costly to buy solid fuel? Not too costly now.

[fast4522]

The fact that EMPs can be equally devastating as a nuclear bombs without using one tells you exactly how we are developing weapon systems. Just because people have not figured out how to travel in time does not mean we have not figured out how to level a country without a nuclear bomb.

[Show Me the Wire]

The fact that EMPs can be equally devastating as a nuclear bombs without using one tells you exactly how we are developing weapon systems. Just because people have not figured out how to travel in time does not mean we have not figured out how to level a country without a nuclear bomb.


What does the above have to do with the price of tea in China? The working premise of this thread is China is our, the U.S.' enemy and that North Korea is it client state.

Also, North Korea seems flush with $$$ to pay for major technological advances since November 2016. Iran received a big cash infusion and is partners with North Korea in missile development.

[Greyfox]

What does the above have to do with the price of tea in China? The working premise of this thread is China is our, the U.S.' enemy and that North Korea is it client state.

Also, North Korea seems flush with $$$ to pay for major technological advances since November 2016. Iran received a big cash infusion and is partners with North Korea in missile development.

North Korea is China's foil.
China subtly encourages North Korea to keep building arms while pretending that they are against them doing that.
Any thread about China as a foe has to discuss North Korea as well.

[Show Me the Wire]

North Korea is China's foil.
China subtly encourages North Korea to keep building arms while pretending that they are against them doing that.
Any thread about China as a foe has to discuss North Korea as well.

Isn't what a client state is? An enemy as well as the foreign power that controls the client state?

[fast4522]

What does the above have to do with the price of tea in China? The working premise of this thread is China is our, the U.S.' enemy and that North Korea is it client state.

Also, North Korea seems flush with $$$ to pay for major technological advances since November 2016. Iran received a big cash infusion and is partners with North Korea in missile development.

The issue with North Korea is morons have sons who are even bigger morons. Even China is worried about this bloodline biting the mainland in the ass. The working premise of this thread is way more complex than just China, we have a real world leader now. My bet is that shit for brains will not even come close to his daddy's age at death.

[_______]

Japan wants first strike capability due to the recent advancements int North Korea missile technology. Guess Japan forgot North Korea has had this ballistic missile technology for ten years.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-as-north-korea-missile-threat-grows-japan-lawmakers-argue-for-first-strike-options-2017-3

Here is another fact pointing toward recent technological advances since November 2016. Solid fuel. Prior to the latest launch North Korea's solid fuel weapons were limited to submarine-launched ballistic missile that the country test-fired last August and short-range KN-02 missiles and were very limited in number. Why? Too costly to buy solid fuel? Not too costly now.

Maybe you weren't trolling. You might actually take what you say seriously.

The recent launches by N Korea were extended range SCUDS. The same notoriously inaccurate missles Iraq lobbed at Israel and Saudi Arabia during the first Iraq war. That was more than 25 years ago. It was old technology then. So...Super advanced stuff there.

I don't know where you get the idea that solid rocket fuel is advanced. It's a far easier technology that liquid fuel. A cross section of a solid fuel rocket looks essentially the same as that of a firecracker with the exception of a nozzle at one end and payload at the other. A cross section of a liquid fuel rocket give you an idea where the term "rocket scientist" came from.

You really need to stop with the nonsense you keep posting here. Hitting a bullet with a bullet. Targeting barges. And now super advanced technologies that are nothing of the sort.

North Korea is incrementally advancing it's capabilities. It's neighbors are taking reasonable steps in response. It's not a good situation but spouting the complete nonsense you keep making up just undermines your credibility on the subject.

Until you know what you're talking about, which you have clearly demonstrated you don't, just stop.

[Show Me the Wire]

Maybe you weren't trolling. You might actually take what you say seriously.

The recent launches by N Korea were extended range SCUDS. The same notoriously inaccurate missles Iraq lobbed at Israel and Saudi Arabia during the first Iraq war. That was more than 25 years ago. It was old technology then. So...Super advanced stuff there.

I don't know where you get the idea that solid rocket fuel is advanced. It's a far easier technology that liquid fuel. A cross section of a solid fuel rocket looks essentially the same as that of a firecracker with the exception of a nozzle at one end and payload at the other. A cross section of a liquid fuel rocket give you an idea where the term "rocket scientist" came from.

You really need to stop with the nonsense you keep posting here. Hitting a bullet with a bullet. Targeting barges. And now super advanced technologies that are nothing of the sort.

North Korea is incrementally advancing it's capabilities. It's neighbors are taking reasonable steps in response. It's not a good situation but spouting the complete nonsense you keep making up just undermines your credibility on the subject.

Until you know what you're talking about, which you have clearly demonstrated you don't, just stop.

Where did I say solid rocket fuel is a recent advance in technology? I am pointing out the advances by North Korea. a country which could not fire its ballistic missiles successfully from a launch pad as recently as of November 2016.

You are making a straw-man argument to attack my position that North Korea is making advances, a rather quick advance in their missile technology, since November of last year. A quick advance about which Japan is concerned about, so concerned Japan is considering obtaining first strike ability. The point is I believe these advances are due to a large influx of money, which allowed North Korea to advance its missile program quicker in four months than it has advanced in the previous ten years.

To make the point clear, liquid fuel is less expensive than solid fuel.

[_______]

Where did I say solid rocket fuel is a recent advance in technology? I am pointing out the advances by North Korea. a country which could not fire its ballistic missiles successfully from a launch pad as recently as of November 2016.

You are making a straw-man argument to attack my position that North Korea is making advances, a rather quick advance in their missile technology, since November of last year. A quick advance about which Japan is concerned about, so concerned Japan is considering obtaining first strike ability. The point is I believe these advances are due to a large influx of money, which allowed North Korea to advance its missile program quicker in four months than it has advanced in the previous ten years.

To make the point clear, liquid fuel is less expensive than solid fuel.

How many failed launches do you think the United States had last year?

Again...any organization launching rockets has failures. No one is arguing that North Korea isn't advancing their missle technology. But every example you have cited for it is wrong.

The failure they had in November is more likely to have advanced their efforts than the launching of 1960's era technology did last week.

Japan's re-militarization is an unfortunate but probably neccesary consequence of North Korea's ongoing threats. I guarentee you that one of the nations most concerned about that is China. It's a complex issue with no easy solutions and one you probably ought to read up on before posting more of your fact free nonsense.

[_______]

And by the way...propellant cost is a minor fraction of the overall cost of a rocket. Solid fuel rockets have many advantages over liquid. Cost is one.

[Show Me the Wire]

And by the way...propellant cost is a minor fraction of the overall cost of a rocket. Solid fuel rockets have many advantages over liquid. Cost is one.

Missile programs are very expensive. Especially, for a country that is under economic sanctions. Where do you suppose their funding for their current missile program originates?

[Show Me the Wire]

How many failed launches do you think the United States had last year?

Again...any organization launching rockets has failures. No one is arguing that North Korea isn't advancing their missle technology. But every example you have cited for it is wrong.

The failure they had in November is more likely to have advanced their efforts than the launching of 1960's era technology did last week.

Japan's re-militarization is an unfortunate but probably neccesary consequence of North Korea's ongoing threats. I guarentee you that one of the nations most concerned about that is China. It's a complex issue with no easy solutions and one you probably ought to read up on before posting more of your fact free nonsense.

So what is your point? North Korea is not a client state of China. China is not our enemy and uses North Korea as a proxy to advance China' aspirations in the region, which conflict with U.S. aspirations?

China lost control over North Korea? Is Iran funding North Korea's missile program? If so how do Iran obtain cash to help North Korea?

So tell us what is your point, about the situation is so complex. Break it down for us so all of us ignoramuses can understand what makes it so complicated.

[_______]

So what is your point? North Korea is not a client state of China. China is not our enemy and uses North Korea as a proxy to advance China' aspirations in the region, which conflict with U.S. aspirations?

China lost control over North Korea? Is Iran funding North Korea's missile program? If so how do Iran obtain cash to help North Korea?

So tell us what is your point, about the situation is so complex. Break it down for us so all of us ignoramuses can understand what makes it so complicated.

You'll have to forgive my inability to discern your "main points". In my own defense, I have to point out that you buried them under a mountain of misinformation about the gargantuan leaps in technology North Korea demonstrated last week by firing off technology that was cutting edge 5 decades ago.

My main point was to swat down the incredibly dumb arguments you and a few others were making and that you continue to make about how meaningful those tests were.

Stop pretending you know stuff that you don't. You can still have an opinion without puffing it up with bullshit flourishes that only make you look foolish.

[fast4522]

Now now the wire started the thread, he is only guilty of trying to guide the thread inside the working premise. I view the country by its current and former leaders, both fit the zit on the ass category. The working premise as stated is not that much of a :sleeping: as one might think, but I doubt Kim Jong-un will live to see 40 years of age.

[_______]

Now now the wire started the thread, he is only guilty of trying to guide the thread inside the working premise. I view the country by its current and former leaders, both fit the zit on the ass category. The working premise as stated is not that much of a :sleeping: as one might think, but I doubt Kim Jong-un will live to see 40 years of age.

I probably would never have commented at all in this thread but for the insanity he introduced in post 5 and has carried on since.

There are probably a thousand threads here where I disagree with the initial premise but never bother commenting on. I didn't jump in on this one right away.

But after his repeated citations of North Korea's "bullet on a bullet" abilities, I called bullshit. And he continued posting absolute nonsense to support his own drift. That is what I have commented on.

I didn't bring up missle technology as a distraction. I brought it up to point out the absolute fact vacuum Wire kept insisting on posting.

[Show Me the Wire]

It has been stated the China issue is complex. Here is how simple it is China is our enemy. China has now stated the consequences the U.S. will face. China will begin an arms race, limited, by a rapid increase in number and quantity of it's strategic nuclear weapons. China threatens to revoke its vow not to use nuclear weapons against countries without nuclear weapons, read South Korea. China is also proposing a Sino-Russian partnership to strike a heavy blow to the U.S.http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1037016.shtml

Fact the Korean war, police action, really never ended. The hostilities between our countries still officially exist, with only a cease fire in place.

China for the last eight years has aggressively expanded its militarization of the region. The previous U.S. administration pretty much let China do what it wanted in the region. Now China is throwing a hissy fit, because the current administration is taking measures to defend against China's puppet's advancements in its first strike missile program. China is upset because the U.S. took action, THAAD system, to protect its allies from the North Korean ballistic missile threat.

China could easily avoid this arms escalation. China could lift its support for North Korea's missile program, stop funding North Korea and work against North Korea developing its program.

However, there is a wrinkle and that wrinkle is Iran. Iran has partnered with North Korea to develop nuclear weapons, strategic missiles and missile platforms to deliver the war heads. That is right, China has allowed its proxy, North Korea, to help Iran develop nuclear capabilities. Iran having nuclear capabilities will further increase Iran's power in the Middle East and Syrian region and increase destabilization of the region.

Bottom line China is our enemy, the U.S. is still officially engaged in a military conflict with North Korea and its ally China. China is militarizing and expanding its military capabilities in Asia and allowing its client state to destabilize the Middle East by helping Iran to become a nuclear power, while simultaneously causing problems on the Korean peninsula and Japan. Who needs enemies with friends like China?

Due to China's aggression it is important for us to strengthen U.S. relations with Russia to prevent a Sino-Russian pact against the U.S. A pact that China wishes to establish.

p.s. for those who do not know Global Times is the voice of China.

[elysiantraveller]

I probably would never have commented at all in this thread but for the insanity he introduced in post 5 and has carried on since.

There are probably a thousand threads here where I disagree with the initial premise but never bother commenting on. I didn't jump in on this one right away.

But after his repeated citations of North Korea's "bullet on a bullet" abilities, I called bullshit. And he continued posting absolute nonsense to support his own drift. That is what I have commented on.

I didn't bring up missle technology as a distraction. I brought it up to point out the absolute fact vacuum Wire kept insisting on posting.

Why are you bothering?

The world is a Risk Board dontcha know?

I want to know why North Korea isn't shelling Seoul right now...:rolleyes:

[Show Me the Wire]

A decade later, that confidence has all but evaporated. After a week in which Pyongyang successfully lobbed four intermediate-range missiles into the Sea of Japan, U.S. officials are no longer seeing North Korea’s weapons tests as amateurish, attention-grabbing provocations. Instead, they are viewed as evidence of a rapidly growing threat — and one that increasingly defies solution.

Over the past year, technological advances in North Korea’s nuclear and missile programs have dramatically raised the stakes in the years-long standoff between the United States and the reclusive communist regime, according to current and former U.S. officials and *Korea experts. Pyongyang’s growing arsenal has rattled key U.S. allies and spurred efforts by all sides to develop new first-strike capabilities, increasing the risk that a simple mistake could trigger a devastating regional war, the analysts said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/as-north-koreas-arsenal-grows-experts-see-heightened-risk-of-miscalculation/2017/03/11/0a0b5cd2-05be-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_usnkorea-6pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.aa85be4457df
[emphasis added]

[Show Me the Wire]

March 14 Wall Street Journal headline:

TO CHINA, AMERICA FINALLY LOOKS VULNERABLE

[ReplayRandall]

March 14 Wall Street Journal headline:

TO CHINA, AMERICA FINALLY LOOKS VULNERABLE
What....now we have to throw out the illegal Asians out of the country?? Who's going to do my laundry with Calgon?

https://youtu.be/ZjNRXfRXnoc

[Show Me the Wire]

Iran's navy has conducted a joint exercise with a Chinese fleet near the strategic Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_IRAN_CHINA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-06-18-07-13-44