How do liberals defend the forced hijab?

[letswastemoney]

Every day, I read in my Facebook feed how Muslims are just like any of us. They support equality, freedom, etc. There is a lot I find wrong with this logic, but most notably the forced hijab is already a sign of oppression right off the bat.

In fact, there was a woman kicked off the Iranian national chess team for refusing to wear it.

http://heatst.com/culture-wars/iranian-woman-chess-grandmaster-banned-for-refusing-to-wear-a-hijab/

"An 18-year-old chess grandmaster has been banned from Iran’s national team for refusing to wear the hijab, which has been a mandatory for women there since Shiite Islamists seized power in the once-secular nation in 1979."

Not only that, but any woman looking to compete in the world chess championship this year, held in Iran of all places, must wear the hijab.

"The world chess championship is set to take place in Iran in 2017, and competing women are not merely encouraged to don the headscarf to compete at the event—they are forced to do so. Women with their hair on display face fines and even arrest for appearing in public."

Granted, the quote comes from a biased website, but I've already read of other chess players refusing to travel because of this very issue. The forced headwear is wrong. It can't be compared to nuns because they are a select group of women who choose to put on that clothing. Christians don't have to wear that.

While there are a few exceptions, my understanding is that every Muslim woman must wear the headwear.

[PaceAdvantage]

They don't defend it...they ignore it

[tucker6]

They don't defend it...they ignore it

Maybe we can get a cute FanDan cartoon to defend it.

[woodtoo]

World Hijab Day Feb.1 celebrated in 140 mostly Muslim counties asking woman of all
religions and background to submit to the Islamic pedophile Allah.

Endorsed by Democrat Congresswoman Roxanne Persaud.
NYS Assemblyman David Weprin

[boxcar]

Maybe we can get a cute FanDan cartoon to defend it.

That's an easy defense. Permit me, please. Start: Only hateful religious and racist bigots would question the hijab in the first place. Stop!

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Every day, I read in my Facebook feed how Muslims are just like any of us. They support equality, freedom, etc. There is a lot I find wrong with this logic, but most notably the forced hijab is already a sign of oppression right off the bat.

In fact, there was a woman kicked off the Iranian national chess team for refusing to wear it.

http://heatst.com/culture-wars/iranian-woman-chess-grandmaster-banned-for-refusing-to-wear-a-hijab/

"An 18-year-old chess grandmaster has been banned from Iran’s national team for refusing to wear the hijab, which has been a mandatory for women there since Shiite Islamists seized power in the once-secular nation in 1979."

Not only that, but any woman looking to compete in the world chess championship this year, held in Iran of all places, must wear the hijab.

"The world chess championship is set to take place in Iran in 2017, and competing women are not merely encouraged to don the headscarf to compete at the event—they are forced to do so. Women with their hair on display face fines and even arrest for appearing in public."

Granted, the quote comes from a biased website, but I've already read of other chess players refusing to travel because of this very issue. The forced headwear is wrong. It can't be compared to nuns because they are a select group of women who choose to put on that clothing. Christians don't have to wear that.

While there are a few exceptions, my understanding is that every Muslim woman must wear the headwear.

It's an interesting conundrum.

First, the World Chess Federation (or whichever is the governing body) could say that the order should be rescinded or the tournament will move to a different venue. It's their tournament and their responsibility to find a proper venue.

It is a repressive regime. However, until the people rise up against the repression they should expect such requirements to be imposed upon them. Pretty clear none of us would want to live there.

They are clearly not Western, but we should apply the same standard we would apply in America. We have customs and laws, and if you come here you are expected to obey customs and laws. To us, requiring women to wear a hijab is arbitrary and oppressive, but as foreign as it sounds to us, it's their country. If that's the way they want to run it, we can protest or we can boycott or we can point out it's a crappy way to treat your guests, but at the end of the day we can't do a lot more than that.

[Inner Dirt]

Liberals are ok with racism, discrimination and oppression as long as the person doing it is not a white Christian male.

[Fager Fan]

The story about the chess tournament is true. Another of recent is a conservative woman politician (from France, I think) refused a scheduled meeting with a Muslim cleric because they demanded she wear a head scarf.

It's good to be respectful of customs and traditions as long as there's nothing malicious about them. We finally started looking at the mistreatment of women in Muslim cultures. Thankfully. It is odd though that it's conservatives who are forcing us to look at this and liberals have ignored it. No, not odd actually. The fight liberals are fighting is against white Christians, this is why they ignore it. They're not the enemy, white Christians are. 911 gave rise to this fight within for some reason.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Liberals are ok with racism, discrimination and oppression as long as the person doing it is not a white Christian male.

You really aren't interested in having an intellectual discussion are you? As I mentioned, somehow you believe that by staining all liberals that is less offensive than using the pronoun "you" in your statement. Apparently you think dating a "liberal" makes you omniscient about liberals or some kind of conservative Good Samaritan, otherwise I can't imagine why you would make such a wrongheaded statement.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Who came up with "When in Rome, do as the Romans..".... Maybe when in Iran, do as the Iranians....

I'd like to have a discussion about religious garments in general...
I tried going to synagogue one day and they say that I must wear a kippa (small round hat on my head out of respect.....really.....god wants me to wear a funny little round lace hat....? Out of respect for Him...? Or respect for the Law in his books that maybe says that my head shall be covered...What is THAT all about....so if Jews are required to wear little funny hats, why on earth is it so terrible that women are required to wear head scarfs.....it is for the same reason, right...? Respect for god, right....go tell Jews to not wear their hats and see how far you get with that one....

[boxcar]

You really aren't interested in having an intellectual discussion are you? As I mentioned, somehow you believe that by staining all liberals that is less offensive than using the pronoun "you" in your statement. Apparently you think dating a "liberal" makes you omniscient about liberals or some kind of conservative Good Samaritan, otherwise I can't imagine why you would make such a wrongheaded statement.

Get over it. Most libs are very predictable. Look at you. Everyone here has had you figured out for some time now. :p

[barn32]

How do liberals defend the forced hijab?



They don't defend it...they ignore it

the Islamic pedophile Allah.



Liberals are ok with racism, discrimination and oppression as long as the person doing it is not a white Christian male.

Does anyone but me see a theme here?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Does anyone but me see a theme here?

Stunningly, I believe the conclusion is that it is possible to blame liberals for all problems, even those caused by the Ayatollah in Iran.

Plus, it can be assumed that liberals are not only in favor of woman having to wear a hajib. but they can't understand why everyone in every country isn't in favor of women wearing the hajib.

[MikeH]

Liberals are ok with racism, discrimination and oppression as long as the person doing it is not a white Christian male.

+1

[VigorsTheGrey]

Stunningly, I believe the conclusion is that it is possible to blame liberals for all problems, even those caused by the Ayatollah in Iran.

Plus, it can be assumed that liberals are not only in favor of woman having to wear a hajib. but they can't understand why everyone in every country isn't in favor of women wearing the hajib....

What is the hajib suppose to do? I mean if a woman did not wear one, what would happen...? I mean outside of human intervention....The ones that really stir my imagination are the all black with narrow slits over the eyes only....Yet in a Theocracy, it does make some sense that religious garments would be in fashion....sort of like nuns here in the west, covered head to toe...it is like the world is just so profane, nasty and dirty.....do nuns dress like that because they think god wants them to...

I know the garments make the man....and sets him off as a minister of god...but what does the hajib really do for a woman...protect her from men...? Or just set her apart as something holy...?

[highnote]

Who came up with "When in Rome, do as the Romans..".... Maybe when in Iran, do as the Iranians....

I'd like to have a discussion about religious garments in general...
I tried going to synagogue one day and they say that I must wear a kippa (small round hat on my head out of respect.....really.....god wants me to wear a funny little round lace hat....? Out of respect for Him...? Or respect for the Law in his books that maybe says that my head shall be covered...What is THAT all about....so if Jews are required to wear little funny hats, why on earth is it so terrible that women are required to wear head scarfs.....it is for the same reason, right...? Respect for god, right....go tell Jews to not wear their hats and see how far you get with that one....

When I have worked in Jewish synagogues I have been asked to wear a yarmulke.

When I have had dinner at my Jewish friend's houses sometimes I have been asked to wear a yarmulke.

Out of respect I wore it.

I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't honored my friend's request. I never thought to ask.

I think he would have let me stay, but would have thought I was rude.

[MargieRose]

Who came up with "When in Rome, do as the Romans..".... Maybe when in Iran, do as the Iranians....

I'd like to have a discussion about religious garments in general...
I tried going to synagogue one day and they say that I must wear a kippa (small round hat on my head out of respect.....really.....god wants me to wear a funny little round lace hat....? Out of respect for Him...? Or respect for the Law in his books that maybe says that my head shall be covered...What is THAT all about....so if Jews are required to wear little funny hats, why on earth is it so terrible that women are required to wear head scarfs.....it is for the same reason, right...? Respect for god, right....go tell Jews to not wear their hats and see how far you get with that one....
Isn't there a bit of difference from going into a particular religion's place of worship and going into the country itself? Is the chess tournament being held in a Mosque?

As to those "little funny hats:" are Jews required to don one wherever they go, whether here or even in Israel? No.

Yes, it IS terrible that Iranian women are required to wear hijabs wherever they go in Iran and elsewhere, if living under the thumb of a martinet. It's even more terrible to require a woman from a different culture to bend to Islamic law. But, I guess that's what happens when there is no separation between a religious ideology and a governmental body, and a repressive and dangerous religious ideology, at that.

[VigorsTheGrey]

When I have worked in Jewish synagogues I have been asked to wear a yarmulke.

When I have had dinner at my Jewish friend's houses sometimes I have been asked to wear a yarmulke.

Out of respect I wore it.

I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't honored my friend's request. I never thought to ask.

I think he would have let me stay, but would have thought I was rude.

So is it rude for women in Theocracies not to wear head scarfs...and then if you were a woman there, you ought to wear one, right, just like at your Jewish friend's dinner, out of respect...but respect for who...? God?

[elysiantraveller]

Every day, I read in my Facebook feed how Muslims are just like any of us. They support equality, freedom, etc. There is a lot I find wrong with this logic, but most notably the forced hijab is already a sign of oppression right off the bat.

In fact, there was a woman kicked off the Iranian national chess team for refusing to wear it.

http://heatst.com/culture-wars/iranian-woman-chess-grandmaster-banned-for-refusing-to-wear-a-hijab/

"An 18-year-old chess grandmaster has been banned from Iran’s national team for refusing to wear the hijab, which has been a mandatory for women there since Shiite Islamists seized power in the once-secular nation in 1979."

Not only that, but any woman looking to compete in the world chess championship this year, held in Iran of all places, must wear the hijab.

"The world chess championship is set to take place in Iran in 2017, and competing women are not merely encouraged to don the headscarf to compete at the event—they are forced to do so. Women with their hair on display face fines and even arrest for appearing in public."

Granted, the quote comes from a biased website, but I've already read of other chess players refusing to travel because of this very issue. The forced headwear is wrong. It can't be compared to nuns because they are a select group of women who choose to put on that clothing. Christians don't have to wear that.

While there are a few exceptions, my understanding is that every Muslim woman must wear the headwear.

I'm very confused by this post.

Who is defending the forcing anyone to wear a Hijab?

You seem to be confusing religious tolerance with acceptance of religious practices. There is a difference.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Isn't there a bit of difference from going into a particular religion's place of worship and going into the country itself? Is the chess tournament being held in a Mosque?

As to those "little funny hats:" are Jews required to don one wherever they go, whether here or even in Israel? No.

Yes, it IS terrible that Iranian women are required to wear hijabs wherever they go in Iran and elsewhere, if living under the thumb of a martinet. It's even more terrible to require a woman from a different culture to bend to Islamic law. But, I guess that's what happens when there is no separation between a religious ideology and a governmental body, and a repressive and dangerous religious ideology, at that.

From Wikipedia:

"The Quran instructs both Muslim men and women to dress in a modest way, but there is disagreement on how these instructions should be interpreted. The verses relating to dress use the terms khimār (head cover) and jilbāb (a dress or cloak) rather than ḥijāb.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#cite_note-El_Guindi-13)
The clearest verse on the requirement of modest dress is surah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura) 24:30–31, telling women to draw their khimār over their bosoms.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#cite_note-IslamOnline-14)[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#cite_note-Hameed-15)
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimār over their breasts and not display their beauty except to their husband, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their (Muslim) women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.
— Quran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran) 24:31"
(https://quran.com/24:31)
One does wonder if this also is in place because Islamic men are so passionate...?

[PaceAdvantage]

Does anyone but me see a theme here?Don't know why you're including me in that list. What I say is 100% true. Liberals ignore what goes on in the Muslim world...and pretend fundamental Christians are the most evil beings on Earth...Jews aren't too far behind either on their list lately...

[PaceAdvantage]

Who came up with "When in Rome, do as the Romans..".... Maybe when in Iran, do as the Iranians....

I'd like to have a discussion about religious garments in general...
I tried going to synagogue one day and they say that I must wear a kippa (small round hat on my head out of respect.....really.....god wants me to wear a funny little round lace hat....? Out of respect for Him...? Or respect for the Law in his books that maybe says that my head shall be covered...What is THAT all about....so if Jews are required to wear little funny hats, why on earth is it so terrible that women are required to wear head scarfs.....it is for the same reason, right...? Respect for god, right....go tell Jews to not wear their hats and see how far you get with that one....The Pope and all the higher clergy in Christianity wear those "funny little hats" too, but I don't see you ranting about them. I guess because they're not Jews...

What religion were you raised? I think you mentioned it before. What are/were your parents, if you don't mind me asking.

Pretty sure they aren't/weren't Jews...:lol:

[MargieRose]

From Wikipedia:

"The Quran instructs both Muslim men and women to dress in a modest way, but there is disagreement on how these instructions should be interpreted. The verses relating to dress use the terms khimār (head cover) and jilbāb (a dress or cloak) rather than ḥijāb.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#cite_note-El_Guindi-13)
The clearest verse on the requirement of modest dress is surah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura) 24:30–31, telling women to draw their khimār over their bosoms.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#cite_note-IslamOnline-14)[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#cite_note-Hameed-15) And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimār over their breasts and not display their beauty except to their husband, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their (Muslim) women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.
— Quran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran) 24:31"
(https://quran.com/24:31)
One does wonder if this also is in place because Islamic men are so passionate...?
"And say to the believing women..." Maybe she no longer believes. Maybe she should be supported.

"The head of Iran’s Chess Federation, Mehrdad Pahlevanzadeh, says that the organization intends to punish the siblings in the “severest way possible,” per a post on My Stealthy Freedom (https://www.facebook.com/StealthyFreedom/photos/a.859102224103873.1073741828.858832800797482/1685911631422924/?type=3&theater), an online movement of Iranian women who are attempting to regain their freedoms in the Islamic Republic."

[VigorsTheGrey]

The Pope and all the higher clergy in Christianity wear those "funny little hats" too, but I don't see you ranting about them. I guess because they're not Jews...

What religion were you raised? I think you mentioned it before. What are/were your parents, if you don't mind me asking.

Pretty sure they aren't/weren't Jews...:lol:

Yes, I know the Pope and all the higher clergy wear them also...and I think they are "funny little hats" on them too...I think it is odd also that they all wear stuff that kind of looks like dresses, too...I read somewhere that's because the Church is suppose to be the Bride of Christ and all...so I guess that fits for them to dress like women,or angels, I don't know, don't you think...?

I don't know where I got that line from...probably some movie...oh yeah, Raising Arizona, written by Jews Coen Brothers, (whom I admire greatly)(for their movies, that is...) not just because they are Jews...(This board needs a lot more Jewish humor, don't you think, Mike, I mean most Jews I know ARE really really FUNNY, despite their funny little hats and all...I mean the greatest TV and Movie comics have always been Jews and probably will always be Jews, don't you think....Of course I could be somewhat biased in this respect....)...

[highnote]

So is it rude for women in Theocracies not to wear head scarfs...and then if you were a woman there, you ought to wear one, right, just like at your Jewish friend's dinner, out of respect...but respect for who...? God?

I don't know. It's all very confusing.

Like PA said... the pope wears a yarmulke -- or something similar.

When I've been in a Catholic church I've never been asked to wear what the pope wears. Though, if I was asked to wear one, because it became the custom of the Catholic church, I'm sure I would wear it out of respect.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I don't know. It's all very confusing.

Like PA said... the pope wears a yarmulke -- or something similar.

When I've been in a Catholic church I've never been asked to wear what the pope wears. Though, if I was asked to wear one, because it became the custom of the Catholic church, I'm sure I would wear it out of respect.

I'm sure you would wear it out of respect for Respects Sake only, as I'm quite sure God could care less about "funny little hats" really, don't you think..?

[TJDave]

When I have worked in Jewish synagogues I have been asked to wear a yarmulke.

When I have had dinner at my Jewish friend's houses sometimes I have been asked to wear a yarmulke.

Out of respect I wore it.

I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't honored my friend's request. I never thought to ask.

I think he would have let me stay, but would have thought I was rude.

Let's get something straight.

Any Jew who asks a non Jew to cover his head out of respect is speaking out of turn. It is a Jewish tradition practiced by observant Jews. Any Jew who would think it was a slight has no clue. Any non Jew should't feel in the least obligated.

[PaceAdvantage]

Of course I could be somewhat biased in this respect....)...You can say that again.

[VigorsTheGrey]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab#/media/File:Muslim_woman_in_Yemen.jpg

[VigorsTheGrey]

The Pope and all the higher clergy in Christianity wear those "funny little hats" too, but I don't see you ranting about them. I guess because they're not Jews...

What religion were you raised? I think you mentioned it before. What are/were your parents, if you don't mind me asking.

Pretty sure they aren't/weren't Jews...:lol:

My mom believed in reincarnation so strongly that she was convinced that SHE was the reincarnation of Nefertiti... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefertiti)....

My dad was an out and out sun-worshiper, his favorite pastime was nudity, though never around us, but at some nudist colony partying with other sun worshipers....

Sometimes, (Just kidding) I think I am the reincarnation of Akhenaten... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten...the stone that the builders rejected...

He's the real thing...probably the source of the Jewish Religion

I am an Atonist, I worship the Sun, Our Father who art in Heaven, the stars are our uncles, countless zillions of them, all twinkling up there in the great beyond....

[highnote]

I'm sure you would wear it out of respect for Respects Sake only, as I'm quite sure God could care less about "funny little hats" really, don't you think..?

You're asking the wrong person. I do not know what God thinks of yarmulkes.

[highnote]

Let's get something straight.

Any Jew who asks a non Jew to cover his head out of respect is speaking out of turn. It is a Jewish tradition practiced by observant Jews. Any Jew who would think it was a slight has no clue. Any non Jew should't feel in the least obligated.

You might be right. I am not Jewish and don't have much experience with the Jewish religion. The reasoning behind many of my decisions are due to my Christian upbringing, (i.e., respect others).

My upbringing can be traced on my mother's side to the Church of the Brethern (liberal Amish) and Presbyterian. And on my father's side to Catholic and Russian Orthodox.

I am just your average, 7th or 8th generation, white, mid-western, libertarian, American male. :coffee:

[highnote]

Getting back to hijab.

This quote from Wikipedia is interesting:

A policy of deliberately enforcing anti-modern, traditional, ancient conservative Islamic education in schools and Islamic ideology was enforced by the Russians in order to deliberately hamper and destroy opposition to their rule by keeping them in a state of torpor to and prevent foreign ideologies from penetrating in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia

[barahona44]

Getting back to hijab.

This quote from Wikipedia is interesting:

Interesting article, especially the part about The Donald's comrade Putin encouraging anti Charlie Hebdo protests and allowing Sharia law in Chechnya.Knowing Trump's admiration for Vlad ("Will he become my new best friend?"-Donald Trump,2013), I would hope this doesn't occur here.But , y'know, Trump is so unpredictable.......