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View Full Version : The horse needs an "education"


PowerUpPaynter
02-10-2017, 04:29 PM
I dont know if you guys saw this: https://twitter.com/KentuckyDerby/status/830142568402792448


but here is my question: do derby horses NEED an "education" do they have to face "adversity" before the first Saturday in May? Or do you think that is just something people say to say it. Does anyone have an exampel of where a lack of "education" hurt a horse's chances or vice versa...

cj
02-10-2017, 10:25 PM
I dont know if you guys saw this: https://twitter.com/KentuckyDerby/status/830142568402792448


but here is my question: do derby horses NEED an "education" do they have to face "adversity" before the first Saturday in May? Or do you think that is just something people say to say it. Does anyone have an exampel of where a lack of "education" hurt a horse's chances or vice versa...

Don't recall American Pharoah facing much adversity before winning the Triple Crown, of course the first of which was the Derby. He romped in his two preps at Oaklawn without any real competition. He won his two year old tries pretty easily too and was injured before the BC Juvenile.

EMD4ME
02-10-2017, 10:39 PM
I think the TC has totally changed with the point system and I hate it. Sprinters are now almost totally incapable of getting in.

Less traffic, less flow in the race and thus less need for education needed.

Mr. Pick 5
02-11-2017, 12:12 PM
I think the TC has totally changed with the point system and I hate it. Sprinters are now almost totally incapable of getting in.

Less traffic, less flow in the race and thus less need for education needed.

Couldnt agree more....and is the main reason why weve had a procession of favorites since the installation of the point system :bang: :mad:

Stoleitbreezing
02-11-2017, 01:39 PM
I dont know if you guys saw this: https://twitter.com/KentuckyDerby/status/830142568402792448


but here is my question: do derby horses NEED an "education" do they have to face "adversity" before the first Saturday in May? Or do you think that is just something people say to say it. Does anyone have an exampel of where a lack of "education" hurt a horse's chances or vice versa...

I think this is just something people say when they try to poke holes in a favorite or a horse that's highly touted going into a race. As CJ mentioned AP made each of the Oaklawn preps look incredibly easy without another horse so much as challenging him for more.

It really depends on what you define as an "education" is it merely getting dirt kicked in his face or a long stretch drive where the horse's "mettle" is tested. I personally don't think it would be in any derby hopeful's best interest to be involved in a stretch duel unless it was absolutely necessary to qualify with enough points. I remember when ITSAKNOCKOUT was put up when UPSTART came out in the FOY a couple of years ago. While they didn't have an epic stretch battle, Saez asked ITSKO well before they even wheeled into the stretch then scrubbed him vigorously through the lane before bumping with UPSTART

Was he "used" up in that race to further explain his disappointing Florida Derby? Or was it he just wasn't a graded quality type horse as he failed against graded quality for the remainder of his career. I'm not sure. I just put more merit in larger field races and give them bonus points for defeating others I hold in high regard.

CincyHorseplayer
02-11-2017, 02:25 PM
Couldnt agree more....and is the main reason why weve had a procession of favorites since the installation of the point system :bang: :mad:

Welcome aboard! And great point. Orb IMO was the last worthwhile winner. I hear this repetitive argument about the value received on the Derby with winning favorites. I can get value on a Tuesday at Sam Houston. When it comes to the derby fair value is mediocre. I want to crush this race! The phenomenon you and others have pointed out has really taken some of the hype out of it for me. And it's a point I repeatedly make to newcomers and casual fans. For al the interest they garner the stars of this game only enrich owners not players. The derby will always be the bigtime spring focus and the buildup fun. But the actual race has become a drag from a betting perspective.

Mr. Pick 5
02-11-2017, 02:52 PM
Welcome aboard! And great point. Orb IMO was the last worthwhile winner. I hear this repetitive argument about the value received on the Derby with winning favorites. I can get value on a Tuesday at Sam Houston. When it comes to the derby fair value is mediocre. I want to crush this race! The phenomenon you and others have pointed out has really taken some of the hype out of it for me. And it's a point I repeatedly make to newcomers and casual fans. For al the interest they garner the stars of this game only enrich owners not players. The derby will always be the bigtime spring focus and the buildup fun. But the actual race has become a drag from a betting perspective.
Thanks for the welcome....couldn't agree more....derby favorites have made the day boring and a drag....I look forward to this day as it is one of the few days with fields and pools big enough to make a very significant score....that however is next to impossible with derby favorites....maybe this is the year for a price....at least a midshot please