Making $20-50 a day

[timtam]

Countless times I talk to guys at the OTB who are retired and try to make

$20-$50 a day they say they could supplement their income and " live on easy

street". Is that at all possible cause many times they are up $30 and hang

around until they are down $10 or $20 bucks. They ask me and I say will

power and vamoose when their ahead. What would be a way to make a

daily wage at the OTB? If any? :)

[BaffertsWig]

What would be a way to make a

daily wage at the OTB? If any? :)

Only consistent way would be to get a job as a teller.

[Murph]

Countless times I talk to guys at the OTB who are retired and try to make

$20-$50 a day they say they could supplement their income and " live on easy

street". Is that at all possible ... What would be a way to make a

daily wage at the OTB? If any? :) Ah, what a life. Hanging out (home or away) everyday, puffin' stogies, sippin' espressos, complaining about EVERYTHING. It seems a respectable way to while the lonely hours. Alas, to this day, I cannot beat the rake.

W WP WPS since Jan 1, 2017
# of Bets Win % $1 ROI Wagered Payoff Profit/Loss
313 30.67% -0.16 $1119.20 $936.23 $-182.97

Being more selective can help profits (in bursts) but takes away from social time. Really, if I won, what would I have to complain about?

[EMD4ME]

I'll get flack for this but if I had to make $20-$50 a day, I would easily do it 9/10 days that I wagered on.

Problem is, that's not my game. I love the super exotics and look to beat the game with roller coster scores. It's simply too boring for me.

I think it is easily done if someone had the proper tools (notes on horses, replays, DISCIPLINE, pace figs, etc etc etc).

Try and tell me that some guy/woman with a DRF is attempting this (with pen and paper in an OTB) then I'd say their chances decrease 10 fold.

[Robert Fischer]

Two(at least two) issues at work here...

1 - Do you have the 'requisite skill' to net a positive return? This must hold true over a long term number of plays.

2 - Why is there a compulsion to play until you lose a certain amount, rather than quitting while you are ahead?


If you can tackle both of those issues, yes it's possible to play daily sessions, towards a 'goal' (with gains and loss amounts that trigger 'stop, session, go home', regardless of how soon the goal is met).

Most people cannot tackle either issue.

(Although very difficult for many regular players) almost anyone can theoretically overcome gambling compulsion with some success, if sufficiently aware and motivated. The 'requisite skill' issue is not going to be possible for the majority of players, no matter how motivated.

Assuming a player does not have the requisite skill, but does have the discipline to end a betting session for the day, when a positive goal is met, they will at least have more winning sessions. Would prove an interesting experiment, with some fun and some frustration.

[Twin Double]

Countless times I talk to guys at the OTB who are retired and try to make

$20-$50 a day they say they could supplement their income and " live on easy

street". Is that at all possible cause many times they are up $30 and hang

around until they are down $10 or $20 bucks. They ask me and I say will

power and vamoose when their ahead. What would be a way to make a

daily wage at the OTB? If any? :)

The only way I would think this could be possible would be to find strong favorites under bet in the show pool. In today's computer age these situations rarely arise with all the computer betting going on, most of the time any overlay in the show pool is evened out when the gate opens. To apply this strategy the person would have to be making $200 show bets and would try to find one opportunity a day. The one opportunity ideally would be a situation that's been back tested to show a profit from a significant sample size.

It would be a tedious daily grind, like micro-limit online poker. Yes, it can be profitable for that unique individual. After factoring in the cost of your information and the time spent to spot the ideal plays it would make more sense to get a part time job at the OTB for a couple hours a day.

[ultracapper]

$50/day is $18,250/year

Stogies? Easy street?

Puffing Swishers, cruising in your 1992 Corolla.

[Twin Double]

$50/day is $18,250/year

Stogies? Easy street?

Puffing Swishers, cruising in your 1992 Corolla.

:lol: :lol: and the pasta stained wife beater

[NorCalGreg]

Ah, what a life. Hanging out (home or away) everyday, puffin' stogies, sippin' espressos, complaining about EVERYTHING. It seems a respectable way to while the lonely hours. Alas, to this day, I cannot beat the rake.

W WP WPS since Jan 1, 2017
# of Bets Win % $1 ROI Wagered Payoff Profit/Loss
313 30.67% -0.16 $1119.20 $936.23 $-182.97

Being more selective can help profits (in bursts) but takes away from social time. Really, if I won, what would I have to complain about?


Don't worry about it Murph...in internet parlance--ya broke even :D

[VigorsTheGrey]

Two(at least two) issues at work here...

1 - Do you have the 'requisite skill' to net a positive return? This must hold true over a long term number of plays.

2 - Why is there a compulsion to play until you lose a certain amount, rather than quitting while you are ahead?


If you can tackle both of those issues, yes it's possible to play daily sessions, towards a 'goal' (with gains and loss amounts that trigger 'stop, session, go home', regardless of how soon the goal is met).

Most people cannot tackle either issue.

(Although very difficult for many regular players) almost anyone can theoretically overcome gambling compulsion with some success, if sufficiently aware and motivated. The 'requisite skill' issue is not going to be possible for the majority of players, no matter how motivated.

Assuming a player does not have the requisite skill, but does have the discipline to end a betting session for the day, when a positive goal is met, they will at least have more winning sessions. Would prove an interesting experiment, with some fun and some frustration.

What would a reasonable over-bankroll profit amount to....say a $200 bankroll....how much would the bankroll have to be before I walk away for the day....?

Is their some mechanical prop that can be used to mitigate gambling compulsion either early or late in the day..?

[Prof.Factor]

IMHO,

Prime plays, and prime plays only. Forget action bets, entertainment and fun.
Stick to proven methods and grind a profit. Fun will go right out the window.

Some might sacrifice their grinder profit for exotic windfalls. I'm talking signers the IRS knows about.
No exotic action playing either. Windfall targets only.
This "feels" riskier, but windfall hits can yield exponentially more than grinder profits.

[DeltaLover]

Countless times I talk to guys at the OTB who are retired and try to make

$20-$50 a day they say they could supplement their income and " live on easy

street". Is that at all possible cause many times they are up $30 and hang

around until they are down $10 or $20 bucks. They ask me and I say will

power and vamoose when their ahead. What would be a way to make a

daily wage at the OTB? If any? :)

Is this for real or a troll?

Even if a bettor has a real advantage (extremely improbable) , the expectation of a consistent “daily” profit is very naive. For a positive EV to materialize, it needs a long sequence of bets; depending in its standard deviation it is not uncommon to need several months to translate a winning strategy to profits.

More than this, timeboxing is completely meaningless when it comes to betting! Trying to limit daily losses or quit for the day when ahead by a certain amount are extremely silly tactics that have absolutely no significance to the bottom line.

My advice to those who “need a few bucks per day” is to stay as far as they can from horse betting (as any other type of gambling)!

[Inner Dirt]

I could never do it even when I first started going to the track on my own as an 18 year old with a $7 an hour job in 1979. My goal was making at least $100 or bust. If I was up $50 going in the last race I was either looking for an even money shot or better to win bet for $50 or looking for a 7-2 or higher to place bet for $50. I have always had a calculator in my head and could quickly figure minimum place and show prices back in the day when they weren't posted.

[Robert Fischer]

What would a reasonable over-bankroll profit amount to....say a $200 bankroll....how much would the bankroll have to be before I walk away for the day....?

Unfortunately I've found that for 'Win/Place/Show' betting, about '2% of bankroll growth per session', would be a reasonable amount.
So for a $200 that would be... $4. :sleeping:
Of course, on day 2, your goal would be 2% of $204 ($4.08!), and over time, your bankroll would increase exponentially, rather than linearly.

If you could actually accomplish this, it would initially be extremely boring (in terms of short term rewards), for some time, and then you would be having a decent exponentially gaining income stream, and then you'd reach a point where your wagers are affecting the W/P/S odds, and you'd have to set a linear goal (e.g. $200 a day), rather than a percentage goal.


Is their some mechanical prop that can be used to mitigate gambling compulsion either early or late in the day..?
I haven't heard of anything.
Gambling compulsion is an irrational behavior that is related to cognitive bias and emotional reaction.
The only success, that I've had with gambling compulsion is to avoid participation with the emotional aspects, know your triggers, and guard your rational thinking.
That makes full-participation in the fun of horseplaying pretty much impossible. The dream of the score. Betting a meaningful amount on your opinion/hope. The fear of losing. The desperation as the horses round the turn and enter the stretch. The resulting agony or ecstasy.
For many, those aspects are what provides the 'entertainment' of the activity, and it wouldn't be enjoyable otherwise.

[Bata]

Only consistent way would be to get a job as a teller.

Or greeters at Wall Mart.

[cj]

Stooper?

[thaskalos]

In my 37 years of gambling, I've only discovered one absolute truth:

The gambling gods punish you more when you really need the money.

[Bata]

I'll get flack for this but if I had to make $20-$50 a day, I would easily do it 9/10 days that I wagered on.

Problem is, that's not my game. I love the super exotics and look to beat the game with roller coster scores. It's simply too boring for me.

I think it is easily done if someone had the proper tools (notes on horses, replays, DISCIPLINE, pace figs, etc etc etc).

Try and tell me that some guy/woman with a DRF is attempting this (with pen and paper in an OTB) then I'd say their chances decrease 10 fold.

If you can make $20-$50 a day 9/10, what is to stop you from making $500-$1000 a day?

[Murph]

$50/day is $18,250/year

Stogies? Easy street?

Puffing Swishers, cruising in your 1992 Corolla.I smoke Davidoff cigars and drive a 2001 VW Jetta. I don't know where you shop but $18K would about double my current income. Retired and poor is a hard spot. Are you making 20% profits on your past 6 mos wagering?

[Mc990]

If you can make $20-$50 a day 9/10, what is to stop you from making $500-$1000 a day?

This is what I was thinking. The actual numbers are irrelevant until it begins to substantially eat into pool liquidity.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Unfortunately I've found that for 'Win/Place/Show' betting, about '2% of bankroll growth per session', would be a reasonable amount.
So for a $200 that would be... $4. :sleeping:
Of course, on day 2, your goal would be 2% of $204 ($4.08!), and over time, your bankroll would increase exponentially, rather than linearly.

If you could actually accomplish this, it would initially be extremely boring (in terms of short term rewards), for some time, and then you would be having a decent exponentially gaining income stream, and then you'd reach a point where your wagers are affecting the W/P/S odds, and you'd have to set a linear goal (e.g. $200 a day), rather than a percentage goal.


I haven't heard of anything.
Gambling compulsion is an irrational behavior that is related to cognitive bias and emotional reaction.
The only success, that I've had with gambling compulsion is to avoid participation with the emotional aspects, know your triggers, and guard your rational thinking.
That makes full-participation in the fun of horseplaying pretty much impossible. The dream of the score. Betting a meaningful amount on your opinion/hope. The fear of losing. The desperation as the horses round the turn and enter the stretch. The resulting agony or ecstasy.
For many, those aspects are what provides the 'entertainment' of the activity, and it wouldn't be enjoyable otherwise.

A very intelligent and interesting post...thank you, Robert...

[thaskalos]

This is what I was thinking. The actual numbers are irrelevant until it begins to substantially eat into pool liquidity.

When you are betting-on-paper while sitting at home...then the actual numbers are irrelevant. But...the closer to the betting window you get, the more "relevant" the betting amounts become.

[FakeNameChanged]

Or greeters at Wall Mart.
I have it on a reliable source(wife) that they laid off the elderly greeters at our local Wmart. And the parking lot is full at any time of day or late night. They still check our receipt to make sure we're not borrowing the bottled water sitting in the cart.

[Inner Dirt]

In my 37 years of gambling, I've only discovered one absolute truth:

The gambling gods punish you more when you really need the money.

Scared money never wins. Who said that?

[ReplayRandall]

If you can make $20-$50 a day 9/10, what is to stop you from making $500-$1000 a day?

Seriously?? The one time EMD loses, it's for THOUSANDS more than he won the other 9 times...:lol::lol:

[thaskalos]

Seriously?? The one time EMD loses, it's for THOUSANDS more than he won the other 9 times...:lol::lol:

When you are betting show-parlays...all it takes to go broke is one loss. :)

[thaskalos]

Scared money never wins. Who said that?

ANONYMOUS! A lot of great quotes are attributed to that guy. :ThmbUp:

[EMD4ME]

If you can make $20-$50 a day 9/10, what is to stop you from making $500-$1000 a day?

I can bet $20 to place on Bata Lover in the 4th at Emerald and make $3.20

If I bet $200 I kill the price down to $2.60 and I would never bet that way anyway.

You can bet $200 on 1 near lock horse at NYRA or otherwise and earn $2.60 but that's just not my game.

I do like to incorporate some conservative parlays into my wagering on select days but to do that solely and at small tracks is 1) boring 2) not feasible.

[EMD4ME]

Seriously?? The one time EMD loses, it's for THOUSANDS more than he won the other 9 times...:lol::lol:

Hee hee hee hee. Very funny :D

[EMD4ME]

When you are betting show-parlays...all it takes to go broke is one loss. :)

I checked, I made 1420 bets recently in 1 session, 3 were parlays.

Not the way to go broke my friend.

Sunday I bet a small parlay:

$30 win 10 Race 7 ($7.70)
$100 Place 10 race 7 ($3.50)

Parlayed to the chalk to place in race 8 ($2.60)

Parlayed to place on the 1 in the 9th. ($3.70)

Not 1 massive opinion in a 3 race sequence.

My $130 turned into apprx $700 with little to zero risk.

You guys (including you Vic ) keep laughing, I'll keep cashing and getting more rebates ;)

[ReplayRandall]

Hee hee hee hee. Very funny :D
This question of making $20-50 a day reminds me of a crap-player who had his own surefire system to grind out $50 a day. He was happy 29 days a month, but the one time things went bad, he lost everything, a total bust. He told me, "I'd rather be happy 29 days out of the month, and be miserable for just one day"........Hey, come to think about it, maybe he has the right philosophy after all...:cool:

[EMD4ME]

This question of making $20-50 a day reminds me of a crap-player who had his own surefire system to grind out $50 a day. He was happy 29 days a month, but the one time things went bad, he lost everything, a total bust. He told me, "I'd rather be happy 29 days out of the month, and be miserable for just one day"........Hey, come to think about it, maybe he has the right philosophy after all...:cool:

That's INSANE! What good is that RR?

[ReplayRandall]

That's INSANE! What good is that RR?

Because usually it's just the opposite, lose almost everyday for weeks at a time, then win HUGE on just one day's play, and show a net profit for the month...;)

[EMD4ME]

Because usually it's just the opposite, lose almost everyday for weeks at a time, then win HUGE on just one day's play, and show a net profit for the month...;)

To each his own pal. I'd rather have a somewhat happy medium, even with risky bets :)

[ReplayRandall]

To each his own pal. I'd rather have a somewhat happy medium, even with risky bets :)
I'm exaggerating both points of each post, buddy.....I'll say this again, "No one knows when they're going to win a bet".....the rest is all rhetoric.

[EMD4ME]

I'm exaggerating both points of each post, buddy.....I'll say this again, "No one knows when they're going to win a bet".....the rest is all rhetoric.

I know :) I was just discussing the two types of hypothetical players in the interest of the topic.

[thaskalos]

This question of making $20-50 a day reminds me of a crap-player who had his own surefire system to grind out $50 a day. He was happy 29 days a month, but the one time things went bad, he lost everything, a total bust. He told me, "I'd rather be happy 29 days out of the month, and be miserable for just one day"........Hey, come to think about it, maybe he has the right philosophy after all...:cool:

This "long run" stuff is overrated, IMO. What I am looking for right now is a system which will allow me to live in comfort until the age of 82. I don't care if the system breaks me after that.

[thaskalos]

I checked, I made 1420 bets recently in 1 session, 3 were parlays.

Not the way to go broke my friend.

Sunday I bet a small parlay:

$30 win 10 Race 7 ($7.70)
$100 Place 10 race 7 ($3.50)

Parlayed to the chalk to place in race 8 ($2.60)

Parlayed to place on the 1 in the 9th. ($3.70)

Not 1 massive opinion in a 3 race sequence.

My $130 turned into apprx $700 with little to zero risk.

You guys (including you Vic ) keep laughing, I'll keep cashing and getting more rebates ;)

Come on...couldn't you tell that I was kidding? I put up the smiley face, and everything.

[EMD4ME]

This "long run" stuff is overrated, IMO. What I am looking for right now is a system which will allow me to live in comfort until the age of 82. I don't care if the system breaks me after that.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Good stuff

[EMD4ME]

Come on...couldn't you tell that I was kidding? I put up the smiley face, and everything.

My apologies. You're 100% right. :ThmbUp: (I couldn't help myself, there might be 1 poster who hesitates from betting to show in a parlay and I don't want that poster/reader to do so).

[JustRalph]

Why don't they skip the track, hang outside the track with a tin cup.

They might make more

[Boca Poppy]

This guy has pretty good numbers and passes a lot of races. He gives Win & Place picks. He charges $10 per day, per track and texts his picks before each race.

https://twitter.com/1minutetopost/status/827893068921704448

[EMD4ME]

Why don't they skip the track, hang outside the track with a tin cup.

They might make more

Because there is no one at the track :(

[pondman]

Countless times I talk to guys at the OTB who are retired and try to make

$20-$50 a day they say they could supplement their income and " live on easy

street". Is that at all possible cause many times they are up $30 and hang

around until they are down $10 or $20 bucks. They ask me and I say will

power and vamoose when their ahead. What would be a way to make a

daily wage at the OTB? If any? :)

You are describing bad players, who probably make marginal win bets with no data. I call them the geezer who box speed rating. Until you've have a strong understanding of your own unique edge, and play it, the potential for losing your retirement plan is high. You have to have your own strategy card, and then hit the bet buttons.

[pondman]

Problem is, that's not my game. I love the super exotics and look to beat the game with roller coster scores. It's simply too boring for me.



I'd point in this direction, if someone asked me how to make a living. Get good with supers.

[Nitro]

Countless times I talk to guys at the OTB who are retired and try to make

$20-$50 a day they say they could supplement their income and " live on easy

street". Is that at all possible ? cause many times they are up $30 and hang

around until they are down $10 or $20 bucks. They ask me and I say will

power and vamoose when their ahead. What would be a way to make a

daily wage at the OTB? If any? :)I find these questions very relevant only because they first and foremost express the basic concept of goal setting. Whether it’s a $50, $500 or a $5000 profit over a designated period is irrelevant.

The big mistake as I see it from a handicapped handicapper’s perspective is trying to accomplish anything on a daily basis. That presupposes that his or her best plays are available or occur that frequently. Any player that thinks that they can beat most of the races or anything that just comes along has no right to even contemplate a goal setting strategy.

Accepting that premise forces anyone to realize that the first step toward achieving any monetary goal (that’s been suggested) has to ultimately become very selective when it comes to choosing the right races to play. They have to meet the criteria of being the type of race that someone is more proficient at predicting. Even beyond that, such races have to not only offer sufficient value to overcome losses, but they have to generate the profit that’s required to meet the desired goal.

There in lies the crux of the problem. If a player isn’t disciplined enough to make those type of basic decisions how can they possibly manage their money properly. Once it’s acknowledged and accepted that the preferred races may not occur on a daily basis the rationale for play completely changes. It’s no longer a matter of daily profit. It should evolve into a more realistic approach for perhaps making a weekly or even monthly profit. Once a profit is realized the entire scheme offers a comfort zone and satisfaction that any player would appreciate, especially those who take their game seriously.
.

[EMD4ME]

I find these questions very relevant only because they first and foremost express the basic concept of goal setting. Whether it’s a $50, $500 or a $5000 profit over a designated period is irrelevant.

The big mistake as I see it from a handicapped handicapper’s perspective is trying to accomplish anything on a daily basis. That presupposes that his or her best plays are available or occur that frequently. Any player that thinks that they can beat most of the races or anything that just comes along has no right to even contemplate a goal setting strategy.

Accepting that premise forces anyone to realize that the first step toward achieving any monetary goal (that’s been suggested) has to ultimately become very selective when it comes to choosing the right races to play. They have to meet the criteria of being the type of race that someone is more proficient at predicting. Even beyond that, such races have to not only offer sufficient value to overcome losses, but they have to generate the profit that’s required to meet the desired goal.

There in lies the crux of the problem. If a player isn’t disciplined enough to make those type of basic decisions how can they possibly manage their money properly. Once it’s acknowledged and accepted that the preferred races may not occur on a daily basis the rationale for play completely changes. It’s no longer a matter of daily profit. It should evolve into a more realistic approach for perhaps making a weekly or even monthly profit. Once a profit is realized the entire scheme offers a comfort zone and satisfaction that any player would appreciate, especially those who take their game seriously.
.

Nitro, I have to say, I 100% agree. Very intelligent and accurate post :ThmbUp:

[VigorsTheGrey]

I'd point in this direction, if someone asked me how to make a living. Get good with supers.

To make a living candle...
Me asked how to
Supers with good get...

Direction this...
In point, I'd use
Want, to want you...

Wind for wish...
Chaos, uncertainty, randomness...
Fire, energizes....

And likewise, extinguishes....

[thaskalos]

Even if a bettor has a real advantage (extremely improbable) , the expectation of a consistent “daily” profit is very naive. For a positive EV to materialize, it needs a long sequence of bets; depending in its standard deviation it is not uncommon to need several months to translate a winning strategy to profits.

More than this, timeboxing is completely meaningless when it comes to betting! Trying to limit daily losses or quit for the day when ahead by a certain amount are extremely silly tactics that have absolutely no significance to the bottom line.

My advice to those who “need a few bucks per day” is to stay as far as they can from horse betting (as any other type of gambling)!
THIS is the post that hits the nail right on the head, IMO...and I am surprised that it drew no reply. The (sad) truth in this game is that our "edge" -- assuming we have one -- translates to only a tiny percentage of our overall mutuel handle. The expectation of a high ROI which results in regular daily, weekly, or even MONTHLY profits is only a dream...which soon turns into a nightmare. The profits of the winning players come a lot less regularly than their living expenses, so...sound judgement is highly suggested.

"Due columns" and other hit-and-run techniques can only appeal to the gullible and the misinformed.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I find these questions very relevant only because they first and foremost express the basic concept of goal setting. Whether it’s a $50, $500 or a $5000 profit over a designated period is irrelevant.

The big mistake as I see it from a handicapped handicapper’s perspective is trying to accomplish anything on a daily basis. That presupposes that his or her best plays are available or occur that frequently. Any player that thinks that they can beat most of the races or anything that just comes along has no right to even contemplate a goal setting strategy.

Accepting that premise forces anyone to realize that the first step toward achieving any monetary goal (that’s been suggested) has to ultimately become very selective when it comes to choosing the right races to play. They have to meet the criteria of being the type of race that someone is more proficient at predicting. Even beyond that, such races have to not only offer sufficient value to overcome losses, but they have to generate the profit that’s required to meet the desired goal.

There in lies the crux of the problem. If a player isn’t disciplined enough to make those type of basic decisions how can they possibly manage their money properly. Once it’s acknowledged and accepted that the preferred races may not occur on a daily basis the rationale for play completely changes. It’s no longer a matter of daily profit. It should evolve into a more realistic approach for perhaps making a weekly or even monthly profit. Once a profit is realized the entire scheme offers a comfort zone and satisfaction that any player would appreciate, especially those who take their game seriously.
.

I agree, Nitro, and an excellent post...Lately I've been thinking about an approach that I find interesting that could incorporate what you say here...

Racing holds any number of fascinations for those who follow it, and they all follow it for varying reasons...the gambling aspect, important to us, is only one from a number of attractions....But I do think it is very important to have as much knowledge about the horses themselves to make money from betting...

...My approach is not novel, nor unfamiliar...it involves focusing on a portion of the racing cycle, the top owners, the top trainers, the top jockeys and of course, the top horses, the horses that are winners....the horses that are classy...the horses that the trainers are focusing their efforts on...identifying those horses, following their growth from 2 year old, through their 3 year old year and possibly further....It involves Stakes Races, Allowance Races, and Maiden Allowance races as the targets of possible wagers...

It involves understanding the statistics of horses making it to training, staying in training, selling in sales for good sums to top owners, and top trainers...It involves sticking with the higher percentages...it involves the LONG VIEW...It involves being intensely interested in the horses themselves as individuals, knowing their capabilities, their weakness, their mannerisms...

For a while I tried to wager on betting patterns alone but I found it to be a rather sterile approach because it really didn't have the horses as the center of my attentions, it was focusing on what insiders might be doing with their betting...that is not the type of game that I wish to play, but I certainly understand your approach and I tend to agree with it and see the rationale behind it...

Your post above was very helpful to me, thank you for explaining and posting it....

[Bata]

I checked, I made 1420 bets recently in 1 session, 3 were parlays.



My $130 turned into apprx $700 with little to zero risk.

You guys (including you Vic ) keep laughing, I'll keep cashing and getting more rebates ;)


(Little or zero risk)
You're kidding right?

[Dahoss2002]

Only consistent way would be to get a job as a teller.
:ThmbUp: Spot on!!!!

[EMD4ME]

(Little or zero risk)
You're kidding right?

Yes and no.

Yes, jocks do fall, bad stumbles do happen but outside of that I select rare (meaning you need to be patient for the right races) races and bet conservatively and not aggressively in most parlays.

[Twin Double]

Anyone remember watching the stoopers collecting discarded tickets looking for winners, conselation tickets, or tickets with scratched horses on them that were tossed by mistake. The tracks are so empty nowadays the practice is probably extinct. I bet those guys made $20 a day.

I used to go to Ladbroke DRC in the early 90's to play and every time I went I saw the same person doing this. I gave the guy a couple bucks one time and asked him how often he found valuable tickets. He said he found a $300 tri ticket once by mistake and was hooked ever since. :lol: :lol:

I think the guy eventually got thrown out and barred, though.

[EMD4ME]

Anyone remember watching the stoopers collecting discarded tickets looking for winners, conselation tickets, or tickets with scratched horses on them that were tossed by mistake. The tracks are so empty nowadays the practice is probably extinct. I bet those guys made $20 a day.

I used to go to Ladbroke DRC in the early 90's to play and every time I went I saw the same person doing this. I gave the guy a couple bucks one time and asked him how often he found valuable tickets. He said he found a $300 tri ticket once by mistake and was hooked ever since. :lol: :lol:

I think the guy eventually got thrown out and barred, though.

I know them till this day. 1 local greek goes to the SPA all meet long for free by playing boyfriend to an older local lady. He, in front of me found $1,000 at the SPA on a usual saturday. He got lucky though. It was a $5 box on an exacta that paid $300 or so. Plus he found many other scratched horses.

It's an art. He rips up every ticket he finds (that is a loser). He carries a scorecard of the races at major tracks as well.

[Twin Double]

I know them till this day. 1 local greek goes to the SPA all meet long for free by playing boyfriend to an older local lady. He, in front of me found $1,000 at the SPA on a usual saturday. He got lucky though. It was a $5 box on an exacta that paid $300 or so. Plus he found many other scratched horses.

It's an art. He rips up every ticket he finds (that is a loser). He carries a scorecard of the races at major tracks as well.

That's crazy. Just imagine if the person who original bought the ticket knew it was a winner and dropped it by mistake. That would be sickening thinking you have a thousand dollar ticket in your pocket to cash later and when you go to the window to cash it, you realize "oh no, I discarded my winning ticket instead of my losing ticket earlier".

[EMD4ME]

That's crazy. Just imagine if the person who original bought the ticket knew it was a winner and dropped it by mistake. That would be sickening thinking you have a thousand dollar ticket in your pocket to cash later and when you go to the window to cash it, you realize "oh no, I discarded my winning ticket instead of my losing ticket earlier".

Yup, that sucks. It happened to me maybe once in my life, tops but I get it as my mother has that happen to her now all the time.

She can't see too well and tries to wager but all too often, she discards vouchers and winning tickets and keeps the losing ticket.

[Robert Fischer]

"Due columns" and other hit-and-run techniques can only appeal to the gullible and the misinformed.

I strongly agree with this statement.

Session play should be approached pretty much the same way as standard play. You have a few plays that you feel you have an edge on, and you bet them, individually.
The key difference being that a strict limit would trigger a stop to your betting, even if your very first play of the day hit for your target.

If you have to manipulate and leverage(or add plays at the end to 'get out') your different wagers, you are facing some combination of a lack of requisite skill, and a bad day.

Either you can do it(in general, or 'today'), or you can't.

[Inner Dirt]

Anyone remember watching the stoopers collecting discarded tickets looking for winners, conselation tickets, or tickets with scratched horses on them that were tossed by mistake. The tracks are so empty nowadays the practice is probably extinct. I bet those guys made $20 a day.

I used to go to Ladbroke DRC in the early 90's to play and every time I went I saw the same person doing this. I gave the guy a couple bucks one time and asked him how often he found valuable tickets. He said he found a $300 tri ticket once by mistake and was hooked ever since. :lol: :lol:

I think the guy eventually got thrown out and barred, though.

I once tossed a ticket eventually worth either $578 or $598 rings a bell. It was Los Alamitos harness probably 1985 or so. I played a pick six and made a couple $100 win bets on the first two legs both losing. With my bank roll exhausted and my pick six 0-2 I wadded my last win ticket and P6 and dunked them in the trash. I kept my program. Curious how the rest of the card went I checked the next day's paper. My second choices (played a $128 two in each race ticket) hit the next four races and 4 winners returned the above money as no one had 6 or 5. I hope a garbage digger found that ticket instead of the money going to the state of California.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I stoop my own tickets, usually kept in a neat pile in front of me....and sometimes go through the motions of running the losers thru "just in case"
It is chore I dislike, as I always have many losing wagers,

Penny rich and pound foolish, I suppose...

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Like the book Investing at the racetrack written years ago that claimed most of your days would be winning days at the track. I thought the handicapping principles were good excepting the relying on the top three betting choices,

[EMD4ME]

I once tossed a ticket eventually worth either $578 or $598 rings a bell. It was Los Alamitos harness probably 1985 or so. I played a pick six and made a couple $100 win bets on the first two legs both losing. With my bank roll exhausted and my pick six 0-2 I wadded my last win ticket and P6 and dunked them in the trash. I kept my program. Curious how the rest of the card went I checked the next day's paper. My second choices (played a $128 two in each race ticket) hit the next four races and 4 winners returned the above money as no one had 6 or 5. I hope a garbage digger found that ticket instead of the money going to the state of California.

OUCH :mad:

[RunForTheRoses]

I stoop my own tickets, usually kept in a neat pile in front of me....and sometimes go through the motions of running the losers thru "just in case"
It is chore I dislike, as I always have many losing wagers,

Penny rich and pound foolish, I suppose...

If I do play with tickets I always run them through the machine. One good thing about electronic wagering is the winners are auto cashed. About 15 years ago I was at Philly Park and used a self account system, I tapped out, or so I thought, there was a race at Louisiana Downs, I played a P3 and lost a leg but it wound up paying 2 of 3 and I got about $122.
It is easy to lose track of scratches too if you play several tracks.

[Bennie]

I always keep all my tickets until I get home and then double check them before tossing any. I starting doing this a few years ago when a guy I know from the Big M used to "hit" the clubhouse Friday and Saturday night and would regularly find $50 to $60 in tickets left laying on tables or the floor and some times larger ones. So many toss tickets before the race is "official" or play so many tracks lose track of gate scratches or even the occasional "declared non starter".
I once did cash a pick-3 that I thought was paying about $120 only to see the balance come up $240 when unknown to me a late scratch had given me the post time favorite a second time.
I can say that the guy doing the clubhouse may have found some winning tickets and some free money but truth be told he was also homeless, jobless and often in need of a good bath. $50 to $60 just doesn't cut it in today's world.

[tanner12oz]

Getting good comps would be an absolute in an attempt at this..

[Twin Double]

I once tossed a ticket eventually worth either $578 or $598 rings a bell. It was Los Alamitos harness probably 1985 or so. I played a pick six and made a couple $100 win bets on the first two legs both losing. With my bank roll exhausted and my pick six 0-2 I wadded my last win ticket and P6 and dunked them in the trash. I kept my program. Curious how the rest of the card went I checked the next day's paper. My second choices (played a $128 two in each race ticket) hit the next four races and 4 winners returned the above money as no one had 6 or 5. I hope a garbage digger found that ticket instead of the money going to the state of California.

That probably took a few days to shake off. I know I lost track of a $50 - $60 ticket before, but nothing like you.

[Prof.Factor]

I had a Churchill Downs win ticket on Seattle Slew in Kentucky Derby, I kept as a collector's item.
It was stolen when my house was broken into in 1997.
Only winning ticket I didn't cash.

[traynor]

THIS is the post that hits the nail right on the head, IMO...and I am surprised that it drew no reply. The (sad) truth in this game is that our "edge" -- assuming we have one -- translates to only a tiny percentage of our overall mutuel handle. The expectation of a high ROI which results in regular daily, weekly, or even MONTHLY profits is only a dream...which soon turns into a nightmare. The profits of the winning players come a lot less regularly than their living expenses, so...sound judgement is highly suggested.

"Due columns" and other hit-and-run techniques can only appeal to the gullible and the misinformed.

Perhaps in your experience. That does not equate to absolutes that can be extrapolated to describe what everyone else is doing or not doing. It depends on what you bet, how often you bet, and how you bet. Long losing streaks should be expected when making primarily exotic wagers. It goes with the territory. The long losing streaks are not a requirement of all wagering. They are a peripheral effect of certain wagering strategies. Other strategies have different effects, and different results.

[thaskalos]

Perhaps in your experience. That does not equate to absolutes that can be extrapolated to describe what everyone else is doing or not doing. It depends on what you bet, how often you bet, and how you bet. Long losing streaks should be expected when making primarily exotic wagers. It goes with the territory. The long losing streaks are not a requirement of all wagering. They are a peripheral effect of certain wagering strategies. Other strategies have different effects, and different results.

Yes. If one chooses to bet multiple horses to win in the same race, or wagers dollars to win dimes in the show pools...then I suppose the losing streaks could be reduced substantially. But such caution comes at a price...IMO.

[Twin Double]

Simple game really. If you can average a show payoff of $2.50, win 80% of your wagers you can grind out a 2% return. Some of the best money managers in the world wish they could get a 2% return month after month. I can't do this, nor would I try. But this is how I would suspect someone who needed monthly income from handicapping would approach wagering.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

$50/day is $18,250/year

Stogies? Easy street?

Puffing Swishers, cruising in your 1992 Corolla.

:D:D:D you got me dying over here haha. Swisher sweets!

[Inner Dirt]

I once tossed a ticket eventually worth either $578 or $598 rings a bell. It was Los Alamitos harness probably 1985 or so. I played a pick six and made a couple $100 win bets on the first two legs both losing. With my bank roll exhausted and my pick six 0-2 I wadded my last win ticket and P6 and dunked them in the trash. I kept my program. Curious how the rest of the card went I checked the next day's paper. My second choices (played a $128 two in each race ticket) hit the next four races and 4 winners returned the above money as no one had 6 or 5. I hope a garbage digger found that ticket instead of the money going to the state of California.


That probably took a few days to shake off. I know I lost track of a $50 - $60 ticket before, but nothing like you.

That taught me a lesson on prematurely throwing away tickets, you never know. The thing was is chalk that I didn't like won the first two legs, common sense says with two favorites starting off the Pick 6 no way is 4 winners going to pay anything. I had a habit at harness Pick 6's of putting in two types of horses, one each of one that could wire the field and a deep closer who only wins if things get too hot up front. The closers who were not well thought of by the public won the last for legs. Those were horses I never would have win bet, traffic trouble can get them beat on a 5/8 mile track like Los Al.

Worse part is I think I was making about $550 a week less taxes back then, I threw over a week's pay in the trash.

[Murph]

Yes. If one chooses to bet multiple horses to win in the same race, or wagers dollars to win dimes in the show pools...then I suppose the losing streaks could be reduced substantially. But such caution comes at a price...IMO.
Betting 2 horses to win moves my rate to 42% over 500 or so wagers. This is kind of a strategy to hedge against chalk, so my daily take depends on multiple best odds winners. Most 2nd odds wagers are 3-1 to 8-1. I am NOT finding proper value in my 2nd choice. Putting me right back into the 18% rake.

Show parlay is a method of daily profits that can work with discipline.
I started doing this when Hoosier Park would send a free $2 wagering voucher for Saturday night. A great way to impress a date or introduce new bettors into how easy the game is to play with OP money. LOL

I see the major advantage as using pool money to wager, greatly limiting risk to bankroll. You yourself mention the pitfalls of a show strategy when you said (et al) it's on the day when you most need the money the chips don't seem to fall your way.

Also, I want to WIN dammit! Not play for show. I might make the $25 per day or better if I would find a limit to my play. Perhaps this is a character flaw but it's just not the same as having money on the nose and the satisfaction of being correct at the same time.

[DeltaLover]

Simple game really. If you can average a show payoff of $2.50, win 80% of your wagers you can grind out a 2% return. Some of the best money managers in the world wish they could get a 2% return month after month. I can't do this, nor would I try. But this is how I would suspect someone who needed monthly income from handicapping would approach wagering.

2% return?

Lets say you have such 1000 bets. The total bet for $2 each one will be: $2,000

having an 80% hit rate you expect to cash 800 bets for a return of 2.50 each meaning that you are getting back $2,000 so you break even.

[Nitro]

Simple game really. If you can average a show payoff of $2.50, win 80% of your wagers you can grind out a 2% return. Some of the best money managers in the world wish they could get a 2% return month after month. I can't do this, nor would I try. But this is how I would suspect someone who needed monthly income from handicapping would approach wagering.
As far as I’m concerned playing to SHOW is playing with “Scared Money”. It’s probably a good indicator that the predictions from your selection process are inadequate.

You’re much better off Dutching 2 or sometimes even 3 horses to WIN. The Profit Margins are known before you even place your bet. So, if your known hit frequency is only 50%, your Profit Margin has to ALWAYS be higher or it’s a PASS. When betting to SHOW you have no have no idea what your return is going to be.

[EMD4ME]

As far as I’m concerned playing to SHOW is playing with “Scared Money”. It’s probably a good indicator that the predictions from your selection process are inadequate.

You’re much better off Dutching 2 or sometimes even 3 horses to WIN. The Profit Margins are known before you even place your bet. So, if your known hit frequency is only 50%, your Profit Margin has to ALWAYS be higher or it’s a PASS. When betting to SHOW you have no have no idea what your return is going to be.

What if you like a 33/1 closing bomb who will get pace but you have no clue what else will happen AND don't think this bomb will win BUT you know he will suck up 2nd or 3rd?

[thaskalos]

As far as I’m concerned playing to SHOW is playing with “Scared Money”. It’s probably a good indicator that the predictions from your selection process are inadequate.

You’re much better off Dutching 2 or sometimes even 3 horses to WIN. The Profit Margins are known before you even place your bet. So, if your known hit frequency is only 50%, your Profit Margin has to ALWAYS be higher or it’s a PASS. When betting to SHOW you have no have no idea what your return is going to be.

Often...the win-bettor has no idea what his return will be, either.

[thaskalos]

IMO...trying to make $20-$50 a day at the track is the quickest way to lose $300 a day.

[Twin Double]

2% return?

Lets say you have such 1000 bets. The total bet for $2 each one will be: $2,000

having an 80% hit rate you expect to cash 800 bets for a return of 2.50 each meaning that you are getting back $2,000 so you break even.

I know, I realized this but it was too late to edit the post.

Even if the math was right (easily can be adjust win % or min show payoff) the strategy wouldn't be practical anyway. To make a couple hundred a week you'd have to be pushing around $10K a week through the show window. You wouldn't find enough betting situations at the large tracks where the pools could take the wager without killing the show payout and at small tracks you'd destroy the show payoff.

[thaskalos]

What if you like a 33/1 closing bomb who will get pace but you have no clue what else will happen AND don't think this bomb will win BUT you know he will suck up 2nd or 3rd?
Tailor-made situation for the 10-cent super...IMO. Why settle for the pittance to show?

[EMD4ME]

Tailor-made situation for the 10-cent super...IMO. Why settle for the pittance to show?

I agree. You absolutely can but today at AQU, I liked the 5 in race 1 and the 4 in race 4 as sucker uppers. (in 5 and 6 horse fields-dime super not the best option there).

$3.30
$6.00

$100 parlay, $495 returned. I'll take the sure money and run in some cases, like today.

[Nitro]

Often...the win-bettor has no idea what his return will be, either.That’s absolutely true if you can’t read or follow the Tote board activities. Otherwise, it’s a simple matter viewing the odds and perhaps making an adjusted odds projection if you’re playing a track with small betting pools. Tracks with larger pools tend to provide odds that are much more stable.

What if you like a 33/1 closing bomb who will get pace but you have no clue what else will happen AND don't think this bomb will win BUT you know he will suck up 2nd or 3rd?Well liking that type of LS is great, especially if that’s the type of play that’s preferred. It than becomes a question of how often (recorded hit frequency) you actually can hit that type of entry. I’m not sure how you would “know he will suck up 2nd or 3rd” on a consistent basis. If the favorite Wins or Places it will certainly kill the price on the LS Show return.

[Twin Double]

That’s absolutely true if you can’t read or follow the Tote board activities. Otherwise, it’s a simple matter viewing the odds and perhaps making an adjusted odds projection if you’re playing a track with small betting pools. Tracks with larger pools tend to provide odds that are much more stable.

Well liking that type of LS is great, especially if that’s the type of play that’s preferred. It than becomes a question of how often (recorded hit frequency) you actually can hit that type of entry. I’m not sure how you would “know he will suck up 2nd or 3rd” on a consistent basis. If the favorite Wins or Places it will certainly kill the price on the LS Show return.

I read somewhere betting big longshots to show was a terrible strategy. At the time, I didn't understand what the author meant by that but I eventually realized what I highlighted in bold was why.

[ultracapper]

Just last week I bet a horse at SA with 1MTP at 7/1. Paid $10.80

Frustrating.

[Twin Double]

Just last week I bet a horse at SA with 1MTP at 7/1. Paid $10.80

Frustrating.

Betting to show or place has a weird psychological factor to me. I rarely ever do it. But the same thing happens to me a lot. I bet 7-1 shots they run 3rd and pay 8 -$10 to show. I cringe and think why do I always have to bet to win damn it. I'm happy to take 3 or 4-1 in the win spot but never consider being able to get those odds in show spot on 7-1 and higher horses.

[Southbaygent]

Re:stoops, I've found vouchers sitting in the machines, unclaimed. Or a balance left on the screen when someone doesn't hit that last finish/done button. And, I've lost a voucher or two myself the same way.... :ThmbUp:

[illinoisbred]

Just last week I bet a horse at SA with 1MTP at 7/1. Paid $10.80

Frustrating.
How about Fritz Johansen when he won his last. I submitted my bet as they loaded ...FJ was 4-1..paid $6.80.

[traynor]

Yes. If one chooses to bet multiple horses to win in the same race, or wagers dollars to win dimes in the show pools...then I suppose the losing streaks could be reduced substantially. But such caution comes at a price...IMO.

Or none of the above. There are different approaches that work nicely, but take a bit of doing to wrap one's head around the conceptual framework. The only "price" that might be considered a negative is that the emotional highs and lows disappear almost completely.

[thaskalos]

Or none of the above. There are different approaches that work nicely, but take a bit of doing to wrap one's head around the conceptual framework. The only "price" that might be considered a negative is that the emotional highs and lows disappear almost completely.

Shouldn't the "emotional highs and lows disappear almost completely", solely as a result of the horseplayer's maturity as a BETTOR? When I see a bettor who "lives-and-dies" by his short-term results...then I know that I am watching someone who still needs seasoning in the game.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Just last week I bet a horse at SA with 1MTP at 7/1. Paid $10.80

Frustrating.

I had a horse in the 8th at Sam Houston on Tuesday in a 6 horse field that went off at 7-1 and paid 11-1. Not frustrating!

[traynor]

Shouldn't the "emotional highs and lows disappear almost completely", solely as a result of the horseplayer's maturity as a BETTOR? When I see a bettor who "lives-and-dies" by his short-term results...then I know that I am watching someone who still needs seasoning in the game.

I don't know. I never had any. Felt really stupid on more than one occasion (when I talked myself into making large wagers on "can't lose" horses that flopped badly) but that is about as close as I have come to emotional responses either way. I have always looked at it as just another type of business enterprise.

My reference to the ups and downs is because it seems (at least to me) the majority of bettors are more interested in the emotional highs and lows than in winning. Of course, that might all be like the "sport of kings" evocation--a way to rationalize losing as "entertainment." Strange behavior indeed.

[ultracapper]

Betting to show or place has a weird psychological factor to me. I rarely ever do it. But the same thing happens to me a lot. I bet 7-1 shots they run 3rd and pay 8 -$10 to show. I cringe and think why do I always have to bet to win damn it. I'm happy to take 3 or 4-1 in the win spot but never consider being able to get those odds in show spot on 7-1 and higher horses.

That payoff was for the win pool. Went from 7/1 to 4/1 after 1MTP. Somebody hammered it but good in the final 90 seconds of betting. At Santa Anita, that's a serious bet. Maybe not 5 figures, but definitely closer to 5 than 3.

[ultracapper]

How about Fritz Johansen when he won his last. I submitted my bet as they loaded ...FJ was 4-1..paid $6.80.

That is sickening. That was a 5 figure pop at those odds, and if I'm not mistaken, FJ is running at high priced claiming levels, if not allowance conditions. Off the top of my head, he would be an N2X type runner if he's still competing as I last remember him (I had him when he broke maiden, so his name catches my eye). Those pools can get pretty big, and a move at those odds like that takes a good amount of late money.

[ultracapper]

I don't know. I never had any. Felt really stupid on more than one occasion (when I talked myself into making large wagers on "can't lose" horses that flopped badly) but that is about as close as I have come to emotional responses either way. I have always looked at it as just another type of business enterprise.

My reference to the ups and downs is because it seems (at least to me) the majority of bettors are more interested in the emotional highs and lows than in winning. Of course, that might all be like the "sport of kings" evocation--a way to rationalize losing as "entertainment." Strange behavior indeed.

Your Buffet quote, or paraphrase, whichever it may be, is quite thought provoking.

[traynor]

Your Buffet quote, or paraphrase, whichever it may be, is quite thought provoking.

The same concept has been expressed in many different ways, in many different contexts, by various knowledgeable people. It is especially applicable to horse racing, because bettors often hinder themselves (needlessly) by automatically interpreting everything through a set of (usually self-serving) perceptual biases that tend to limit their ability both to learn and to adapt to new situations.