Lance Armstrong: Greatest Athlete ever?

[cj]

I'm curious who people may find better.

[blind squirrel]

although i like cycling and follow the TOUR LANCE
ARMSTRONG can't be" greatest athlete".BO JACKSON
was the greatest athlete i've ever seen{before injury}
he excelleled at an ALL-STAR LEVEL in two major sports.

[Suff]

lance who? The guy rides a bike.

I 2nd the Bo Jackson nomination. he was a freak of nature.

[BillW]

Which brings up a question. How does one define the greatest? By level of conditioning (Armstrong, lots of hockey players) skill/talent (Ted WIlliams, Mario Lemieux), longevity (Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripkin), big nos. for a few years (Mark Mcguire) or a combination?

Bill

[headhawg]

I gotta agree -- Bo Jackson.

My honorable mention would be Walter Payton. I believe with his conditioning methods he could have won a triathalon or the Tour if he wanted to.

[Bubbles]

Willie Mays. He was the very definition of a five-tool guy, six-tool if you count isntincts for the game. He could do anything on a diamons.

[SAL]

Lance Armstrong isn't even the greatest CYCLIST ever. Eddie Merckx accomplished far more in his career than Armstrong.

Armstrong points to one race every year- The Tour. Merckx dominated lots of other races during the season when he rode.

Not to hold anything against Lance. I can't imagine how physically fit that man must be to do what he does. And at an age where most elite cyclists have seen their better days........

[sq764]

CJ, my question would be why would anyone find Armstrong to be the best athlete ever?

What is this based on?

If it's based on fitness, I would think marathon winners would have to be in much better shape that a cyclist..

[Dan Montilion]

Jim Thorpe.

Dan Montilion

[BillW]

Originally posted by Dan Montilion
Jim Thorpe.

Dan Montilion



Which one? :D

[Dan Montilion]

Originally posted by BillW
Which one? :D

Now I'm confused. Who's the other one?

Dan Montilion

[blind squirrel]

JIM THORPE the golfer!

[Dan Montilion]

What is a Golfer?

Dan (walked into this one) Montilion

[cj]

Not a chance. Marathoners do it for ONE day. This guy did it for 20 of the last 23 days.

You guys have got to be kidding me with Bo Jackson. He was a very good football player and a decent baseball player. This guy struck out more times than a girl trying to play little league baseball.

SAL,

You really can't compare different eras in any sport. Merckx would never be able to do what he did today.

Originally posted by sq764
CJ, my question would be why would anyone find Armstrong to be the best athlete ever?

What is this based on?

If it's based on fitness, I would think marathon winners would have to be in much better shape that a cyclist..

[cryptic1]

Its hard enough comparing athletes of different eras in the
same sport never mind different sports. I tend to downgrade
the exploits of our north american sports. Football isn't a
world sport even with NFL Europe. Baseball and hockey have
footholds in other countries but only a small percentage of the
world population play them extensively. Only basketball of the
four major sports is extensively played around the world.
Some of the triathalon competitors especially the iron man,
excel in more than one discipline at world class events. It seems
to me they are the closest to pure athletes. Yet even they may
only win one or two events in a year.
Are we comparing a single event or a series of outcomes over
a finite period of time or career achievements. I think each
category may lend itself to a different choice.
Lance has excelled for 6 years at a monumentally difficult task
yet it is really only a single event each year he trains for.
Can he be compared with a Gretzky who dominated statistics
over a career or a Dimaggio who hit in 56 straight games etc.
I think every sport fan has sat around with friends debating
this one because there really isn't a right answer and lots of
facts to back up many candidates.

cryptic1 stating the obvious

[Tom]

Lance beat up on the French. Everyone does that. :D

[cryptic1]

Not only was it great that Lance won, but it brought a smile
to my face as I listened to the Star Spangled Banner being
played in Paris. Almost laughed out loud imagining the
french gagging on every note. Its too bad back stabbing and
surrendering aren't olympic sports they might actually win
something.

cryptic1

[sq764]

CJ, marathoners do it for one day? You think they race once a year?

And how long do you think they train for a marathon?

[headhawg]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski

You guys have got to be kidding me with Bo Jackson. He was a very good football player and a decent baseball player. This guy struck out more times than a girl trying to play little league baseball.


And Armstrong is gonna do what else -- win the exercise bike championship?

Puhleeeze!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by headhawg
And Armstrong is gonna do what else -- win the exercise bike championship?

Puhleeeze!

Greatest athlete doesn't necessarily have to mean being great at more than one sport now does it?

[Lance]

Best athlete ever? Jim Brown.

[Dan Montilion]

Originally posted by Lance
Best athlete ever? Jim Brown.

The sports announcer?

Dan Montilion

[Lance]

Does anyone else think it's ridiculous that he's allowed to use Jim Brown's name? It reminds me of when the Brewers (I think) had a player named Bob Gibson. These names should be regulated, as horses' names are. Seriously, the real Jim Brown was a pretty good announcer, too. He used to do NFL games for CBS, partnered with Vin Scully and George Allen if I remember correctly.

[sq764]

I don't think Armstrong is the greatest athlete ever, as he does one things - rides a bike..

However, I think the more appropriate thing to say is that he is the Michael Jordan of cycling, the Joe Montana, the Gretzky, the Ruth of cycling... He is the best at his sport by far..

[headhawg]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Greatest athlete doesn't necessarily have to mean being great at more than one sport now does it?

No, PA, it doesn't, but it depends on how you want to define "athlete". Certainly speed, strength, and agility are attributes that come to mind. You might want to throw in eye-hand coordination, and probably stamina. I'm sure there are other things that people would add to the above.

Compared to others mentioned here, Armstrong just doesn't seem to fit the list, not to take anything away from his accomplishments.

Think about it. If there were such a thing as the WGAL -- World's Greatest Athlete League -- and you were the owner of a franchise that had five team members, would Armstrong make your team? Remember that money, status, ego, or whatever is on the line, and it's not just a thread for which there is no true answer. I think that Lance would be up on the "draft board" for a while.

[sq764]

What about someone like Bruce Jenner?

[Valuist]

I'd say Dave Winfield. The guy was a tremendous baseball player and was all Big Ten in basketball as well as was drafted by an NFL team. I believe he is the only person to be drafted by MLB, the NBA and NFL.

I'd also have to put Deion Sanders up there. The guy played in a World Series game the same day he played in an NFL game. I know some will say it was a publicity stunt but the guy was one of the best cover CBs ever and while not an All-Star in baseball, he was a legit player.

[Valuist]

And as for Lance, there's always going to be lingering questions about steroid use. When it comes to steroid use, usually where there's smoke, there's fire.

[sq764]

I think along the same lines, you have to throw in John Elway and Brian Jordan.. Jordan was a decent baseball player and a very good defensive player in the NFL..

Elway was a HOF QB and I believe he threw in the low 90's as a pitcher..

[Valuist]

Brian Jordan was a much better all around athlete than Elway. Jordan made a Pro Bowl and was a solid outfielder. I think the whole baseball thing w/Elway was nothing more than a negotiating ploy. I thought he was an outfielder also, not a pitcher.

[sq764]

You're right, Elway was an outfielder.. No wonder he quit baseball, he was drafted by the Yankees! :-)

It was mentioned that he threw 92 mph, I thought they referenced him as a pitcher.

[delayjf]

IMHO, the greatest athlete must be a a combination of conditioning, strength and skill. I think sports Illustrated got it right when they named professional boxing as the worlds toughest sports, hence my choice.

Muhammad Ali

[delayjf]

I think Sports Ill got it right when they named boxing as the toughest sport in the world. Because it required a combination of endurance, strength, and skill. Hence my choice:

Muhammad Ali

[sq764]

Well, I have played baseball at a high level, football at a lower level and boxed a little..

With that being said, the endurance in boxing is insane.. The strength is needed as well.. The skill? I gotta tell ya, the skill it takes to throw a football or hit a baseball overshadows the skill of hitting someone with a punch and ducking a punch..

Just my opinion of course..

[delayjf]

I believe in the same article, Sports Ill named professional football quarterback as the second toughest. I'd buy that

[kingfin66]

Originally posted by Lance
Does anyone else think it's ridiculous that he's allowed to use Jim Brown's name? It reminds me of when the Brewers (I think) had a player named Bob Gibson. These names should be regulated, as horses' names are. Seriously, the real Jim Brown was a pretty good announcer, too. He used to do NFL games for CBS, partnered with Vin Scully and George Allen if I remember correctly.

Huh? Are you referring to the Fox studio host James Brown, or J.B. for short? Shouldn't people be allowed to use their real names even if they are the same as another athlete that preceeded them. I think intelligent people can tell the difference between the two, especially when you're talking about the Gibson's.

[kingfin66]

It's near impossible to compare athletes across different sports. Lance Armstrong is defintely the best cyclist right now, but is he the best ever at his sport? That alone is debatable. There's no way you can call him the best athlete ever. There are just too many great athletes. Also, with many sports the best player isn't necessarily the best athlete.

Since this thread is about the best athlete ever, I will nominate the much beloved Secretariat. Other sports/athletes:

Swimming - Mark Spitz
Boxing - Ali
Baseball - Kruk. Okay just joking. Rickey Henderson.
Football - Herschel Walker
Basketball - Jordan
Decathlon - Jenner
Jockey - Pincay
Cycling - Armstrong

Every single one of those is debatable just in their sport. And will someone please tell me whether I'm spelling debatable correctly? It looks right but I'm thinking there should be an "e" after the "t."

[sq764]

Are you saying 'best athlete' or 'fittest athlete in their respective sport'?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Best was Babe Dickerson.
Best male Deon Sanders.
Best glutus maximus muscles Lance Armstrong.

[kingfin66]

That's a good question. I suppose one doesn't have to be fit to be a great athlete. Most athletes who are considered to be great do seem to have a high level of conditioning.

[sq764]

I think if we are speaking of fittest athletes:

NFL - I can agree with Herschel Walker

MLB - Possibly no one will agree, but how about the shape Julio Franco is in for 45?? WOW..

NBA - Jordan was always in tremendous shape

Jockey - Really all of them when you think about pound for pound strength

Boxing - Tough to say, those lightweight guys are in great shape and have to be strong for being so small

[cj]

Jordan was in great shape. I hate to say it, but Rodman was in incredible shape as well.

[Lance]

Kingfin wrote:

"Shouldn't people be allowed to use their real names even if they are the same as another athlete that preceeded them."

Of course. The comment was tongue-in-cheek, which is why I began the next sentence with "Seriously".

[kingfin66]

Originally posted by Lance
Kingfin wrote:

"Shouldn't people be allowed to use their real names even if they are the same as another athlete that preceeded them."

Of course. The comment was tongue-in-cheek, which is why I began the next sentence with "Seriously".

Okay. If you say it was tongue-in-cheek, then I believe you.

[Tom]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Jordan was in great shape. I hate to say it, but Rodman was in incredible shape as well. When you dress like he does, you have to be tough or be fast. :D

[Tom]

How about Babe Ruth?
He set records that lasted decades in between beers and hot dogs. Impressive.

[chickenhead]

I can't believe Carl Lewis hasn't been thrown in the mix.

Like everyone has talked about already, the term "athlete" can mean a lot of things, but if the ability to run fast and jump are any measure of an athlete Carl Lewis rates near the top, that guy was amazing.

[Valuist]

I doubt Herschel Walker was in better shape than Walter Payton. As far as conditioning, I'd take Payton over any team sport athlete. The guy was a freakish talent.

[sq764]

Have you ever seen Hershel Walker??

This is a guy who did 500 pushups and 1000 situps per day.

Payton is about 50th on my list of best conditioned team athletes..

[Valuist]

I'd love to have seen a fight between Payton and Walker. Payton would've KILLED him. And Walker was probably 4-5 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier. Payton used to rep out with 400 pound bench presses, twice his weight. He used to train running up hills. I've heard stories of teammates who tried training with him. They all attest his work ethic made him one of the greatest players of all time. Jerry Rice used Payton's training methods as a model. I'd say its worked pretty good for him.

[sq764]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

If you set that fight up, give me the 245 lb guy with 3% body fat over the 190 lb guy

[pjd888]

Originally posted by chickenhead
I can't believe Carl Lewis hasn't been thrown in the mix.

Like everyone has talked about already, the term "athlete" can mean a lot of things, but if the ability to run fast and jump are any measure of an athlete Carl Lewis rates near the top, that guy was amazing.


yeah but did you ever here him sing?:eek:

[Stillriledup]

I'm curious who people may find better.

Barry Bonds. :D

[Dave Schwartz]

Amazing... You had to go deep for this one, didn't you?

[elysiantraveller]

Barry Bonds. :D

No.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JWdI8aKt8dk/ThRkkgjlyvI/AAAAAAAAAUY/arLCIieDxNM/s400/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg

[Stillriledup]

Amazing... You had to go deep for this one, didn't you?

No, i was digging for something else and stumbled upon this gem by CJ. Thought it was an appropriate bump all things considered. :cool:

[horses4courses]

The clarity of hindsight.
Lance Armstrong's performance level was still amazing - dope, or no dope.

I get the feeling, though, that he is going to look very f**ked up at age 65 - if he lives that long. :ThmbDown:

Gives me an idea!
How's about starting up a care facility for ex-jocks screwed up on 'roids?
Just imagine bringing Canseco around in a wheelchair down a corridor, as he passes by Roger Clemens holding tight to his walker.
Oh, I can see the greenbacks rolling in already........wow.