beaten lengths to decimals

[GameTheory]

Hello,

I need more help with some details. I can't seem to remember the usual conversions for neck, head, & nose when converting them to a decimal number for beaten lengths. (.3 lengths = neck, maybe?)

[BillW]

Generally used figs are:


NO == 0.05
HD == 0.10
NK == 0.20


Bill W.

[stuball]

Hi GT How is it going? I'll tell you what I use.
Nose = .1 Head = .2 Neck = .2

I figure that is plenty close enuff as a small
part of a length can't be the difference in
selection of a horse....agree or disagree.

These are not explosive chemicals used for rocket science here as we can never be exactly correct.

Close is good enuff..Have a nice day!!!!

Stuball

[Dave Schwartz]

I would suggest that a neck should be .25 as there is no 1/4 lengths.

Personally, I like .02 for "nose" and .10 for "head."


Dave

[GameTheory]

What I really want to know is, what does DRF use -- what does BRIS use? I want to be able to emulate their comma-delimited chart files as closely as possible... Of course, I could download a few samples and compare and figure it out, but that would cost me like... a dollar, maybe two.

[punchsaw]

Brohamer uses :
.01 for nose
.1 for head
.25 for neck

[Tim]

GT,

The DRF Formulator record layouts define the following conversion table for PP running lines:

.00-.03 = space
.04-.08 = nose
.09-.16 = head
.17-.35 = neck
.36-.65 = 1/2
.66-.86 = 3/4
.87-.99 = 1

I know this looks odd but thats how it works. Chart running lines show lengths ahead of the next horse, pp running lines show lengths behind the leader.

example:

chart

1st by nose (.08)
2nd by head (.16)
3rd by head (.16)
4th by 2

The pp running line for the 4th horse would be: 4th by 1/2 (.4)

I don't know if this helps. While it doesn't show how the DRF assigns internal decimals at least it shows how the DRF converts them for external reporting.

Tim

[Tom]

Originally posted by GameTheory
What I really want to know is, what does DRF use -- what does BRIS use? I want to be able to emulate their comma-delimited chart files as closely as possible... Of course, I could download a few samples and compare and figure it out, but that would cost me like... a dollar, maybe two.

that's the trouble with research projects....the enormous up-front costs to get a database! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
~G~

Tom

[BillW]

GT,

Well, look at the value here. You've got 5 or 6 answers for free. If you would have spent the money, you would have ended up with only one! I think you made the right decision. :)

Bill W.

[GameTheory]

Plus, once I finish this damn project, the cost of building a database with be nothing, because you can get suck the data out of the raw (free) charts. After several months, you can start making your own PP's, sans all their "fancy" numbers, and maybe some slight descrepencies as we are discovering.

So it seems trying to convert a chart back to decimals will never quite equal what they have because they start out with the decimals and convert them to estimations. I didn't realize that -- what in the world does the original chart caller use?

[BillW]

Furlongs per fortnight

[punchsaw]

How are you coming along with your parser?
I'm really looking forward to it, as your charget
is top-notch!
Keep up the good work!
Punchsaw
www.thoroughbred.tk

[GameTheory]

I know I keep teasing everyone, but it really is *almost* there -- a first version anyway. Things keep happening around here that take me away from my computer. Plus there are just a gazillion little details (as you can tell by my recent posts), because I'm parsing *everything* in the file so you can extract as much or as little data as you want...

By the way, for those of you using the downloader -- I've had two or three files over the last two months since I've been using it (downloading all tracks everyday) that ended up basically blank because of a glitch in the download. This is very rare, but is possible. (All you need to do is download that file again.) The version you all have doesn't detect this, but I modified my personal version to check to make sure the whole file is there before stripping out the headers, etc. If you want the update, let me know. Eventually I'll combine both programs with a Windows interface if you want to wait till then...

[stuball]

I imagine that the parser is not as simple as some
thought it would be. A lot of stuff to decipher and convert to format that we can use. I would like to know if any blank fields can be filled with something as that is my propblem importing data into Foxpro...zero in to numeric fields would be ok...I'll have to try it and see how it works when you get it finished...I am altering my input now to take advantage of some new fields that Bris
has added and I am going to have to do more imports or something to get over the blank field
problem. Have a nice day !!!!!!!!

Stuball

[Bruddah]

Just a word of Thanks for using your talent, time and energy for us. I have relied on charts for a long time in my handicapping. I feel as if I am about to leave the stone age and move into the future, with your parser/ down loader. I have kept my own self entered db using the charts and it is a tedious love of labor. Most times more labor than love. Your software will give me many free hours. Thank you, whoever you are.

Bruddah

[GameTheory]

The first version of the parser will simply spit out the data in a comma-delimited format. As a first goal, I'm going to try to emulate the BRIS Import Charts format and some others automatically. So hopefully it will be compatible with some of the existing software out there.

Of course, there is some info in the BRIS/TSN/whatever files that I can't duplicate (like a speed rating, or last race info, or anything that's not in the chart), but there is also information in the chart that isn't included in those files.

Anyway, the first version will be for all you people to examine the data and look for errors. Above all it must be accurate, after all.

Once we are sure we're getting all the data properly, the plans I have go like this:

-- have it be able to automatically spit out emulated versions of any result file format now in existence -- full charts, exotic results format, quick charts, etc.

-- have the ability to use a user-modifiable filter so you can create your own format. All the fields would have id#'s or names, and you'd make a file that specified the output. That way you can have any field you desire, in any order you desire, and you can fill in those pesky blank fields with whatever you want.

-- have it automatically calculate commonly desired info -- internal fractions for all horses, etc.

-- have the ability to have user-specified formulas that could "do math" on a field(s) and put the output in another field, like you can do in a spreadsheet.

-- also have it parse the programs/entries that correspond to that chart so things like the morning line and the TSN "Scratch Watch" could be incorporated in the data.

-- All this is useful for creating your own database, obviously, but not everyone is going to able to do much with a bunch of comma-delimited data, so there should be a horse-racing specific database application that can manage all this. Then even if you don't happen to know anything about relational database theory you'll still be able to find the average time of 6 furlong $12,500 claiming races at Santa Anita with a few pushes of the button, or how a certain Pinhead does riding in turf routes -- at least so far as your database covers. This application should be able to import not only the files generated by the parser, but any of the common formats, so you can go to one source to see all the info you've got on any race (past or upcoming) or any horse, jockey, trainer, etc. "One program to rule them all."

In short, start saving those charts, because you too can have decent horse-racing database, and the data is free. (Of course, this whole thing could piss off the powers-that-be and put an end to that.) After six months or so, you'll actually have pretty much all the info, albeit in "raw" form, that is in any PP's. Won't that be cool? (I recently realized that workouts aren't part of this equation, but in fact you can download all published works from Equibase everyday for free. That's another thing could be automatically downloaded/parsed.)

Anyway, one step at a time... that "whoever you are" comment was interesting -- I tend to forget to sign my name:

-- Andy Serpa

[wally2001]

Great work Andy, count me in for the updated downloader and for the first version of the parser, I will do as much testing as I can for you and report back any errors.

Cheers
Simon

[Dave Schwartz]

GameTheory,

This is a great idea... one that I've kicked around myself. The only thing that is missing is the earnings box. And, theoretically, you can capture that except for the changes (in purse distribution) that occur after the race is over.

Oh, and don't forget capturing the workouts as well.

Dave

[GameTheory]

Well, there always will be things missing if the charts are your sole source. But the idea is to (eventually) be able to use all the data you have from any source.

But, just be saving the charts, you will incrementally build up data for a particular horse every time he runs -- if we wins they list the pedigree -- so we "grab" it even though we don't have it for the other horses. After 6 months to a year, especially if you save all the charts from all tracks, you'd have an impressive amount of information, and stuff that happened over a year ago is in most cases not going to be that important to you anyway. You can simply say to the database, "Show me everything you've got on this horse." How's this trainer been doing with such and such in the last 2 months, etc?

But if we add the ability to import the regular PP drf files you might have lying around, well now we've got everything -- earnings box, etc. and pretty much all future information we can get from the charts.

Making all this is going to take awhile, mind you, but the simpler things shouldn't be too far off...

[Dave Schwartz]

GT,

Agreed.


Dave