Pegasus Purse for Trainer, Jockeys...?

[VigorsTheGrey]

Just curious about how much the trainers and jockeys earn for their respective roles in the race...?

The 1st Running of The Pegasus World Cup Invitational
$12,000,000 Estimated Grade I FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. $12,000,000 Estimated.

$7,000,000 to the winner,
$1,750,000 to second,
$1,000,000 to third, and
$250,000 to horses finishing fourth through 12th.

I was chatting with friends about this and I remarked that I didn't think that Mike Smith would get 10% of 7 Million or $700,000 to ride a horse for 2 minutes...that different deals were probably cut in the case of this race...would any jockey get $25,000 just for sitting in the saddle in this race...?

And what would the trainers receive? More than 10% of their respective purse shares...?

The money here is out of whack to norms so I doubt that fees for services were the same as more or less traditional fees....by the way, what generally do trainers and jockeys receive for their services...?

[EasyGoer89]

Just curious about how much the trainers and jockeys earn for their respective roles in the race...?

The 1st Running of The Pegasus World Cup Invitational
$12,000,000 Estimated Grade I FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. $12,000,000 Estimated.

$7,000,000 to the winner,
$1,750,000 to second,
$1,000,000 to third, and
$250,000 to horses finishing fourth through 12th.

I was chatting with friends about this and I remarked that I didn't think that Mike Smith would get 10% of 7 Million or $700,000 to ride a horse for 2 minutes...that different deals were probably cut in the case of this race...would any jockey get $25,000 just for sitting in the saddle in this race...?

And what would the trainers receive? More than 10% of their respective purse shares...?

The money here is out of whack to norms so I doubt that fees for services were the same as more or less traditional fees....by the way, what generally do trainers and jockeys receive for their services...?

All fees should be negotiated, owners should be able to pay their trainer and jock as little as possible. Its better for me as a horse player if more money stays with owners, you won't ever run out of jocks or trainers, owners are a different story, they're more important to my horse playing and the game in general.

[VigorsTheGrey]

All fees should be negotiated, owners should be able to pay their trainer and jock as little as possible. Its better for me as a horse player if more money stays with owners, you won't ever run out of jocks or trainers, owners are a different story, they're more important to my horse playing and the game in general.

You are right...and you are making my point...WHY would any owner pay any jockey $700,000 to ride one race? I don't think Smith made anywhere near this amount...of course I could be way wrong here...what do I know....?

It's just sort of....in your face....weird money stuff...what must the other jocks think? The ones who got a measly $25,000 for their work...and also the regular stiffs that got nothin'....this is the stuff of legendary jealousy, I mean GREEN, GREEN with envy...can you imagine walking away with $700,000 and feel in any way that YOU DESERVE THIS WINDFALL...?

[elhelmete]

Am I really reading what I'm reading here?

[JustRalph]

I thought the jock got 10% of the trainer fee?

If anybody deserves huge money to ride.......it's Mike Smith. There was a time I thought he was done

[PICSIX]

I thought the jock got 10% of the trainer fee?

If anybody deserves huge money to ride.......it's Mike Smith. There was a time I thought he was done

The track pays the jockey from the owner's share of the purse.

[Rise Over Run]

I can assure you that Mike Smith and Bob Baffert will each be enjoying their $700k windfall as best they can.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I can assure you that Mike Smith and Bob Baffert will each be enjoying their $700k windfall as best they can.

They will probably be forming their own not-for-profit foundation or other tax shelter if they haven't already because the tax man if a hungry fellow, no....? Mike is a great person..... Anything he does with it is fine by me too... :)

[HuggingTheRail]

Do agents usually get 25% of the jockey cut?

[green80]

The track takes the money from the owners share and pays the jockey. The owner has no say, he gets whats left in his account at the track. As far as the trainers share, that can be negotiated before , it's a deal between you and your trainer.

[EasyGoer89]

The track takes the money from the owners share and pays the jockey. The owner has no say, he gets whats left in his account at the track. As far as the trainers share, that can be negotiated before , it's a deal between you and your trainer.

Jocks under 'deals' would rebate that money back to the owner. It's amazing to me that the track has already decided how much the jockey and trainer should get from the purse, that should be supply and demand, especially for an easily replaceable Pvt contractor

[VigorsTheGrey]

I did a little research....couldn't find the Florida rulebook, but the rulebook for California says something to the effect that the 10% of winning purse is a guide line in lieu of a separate agreement on file with the track....the owner and jockey apparently can make any fee contract amount they wish but the agreed upon fee amount must be delivered to the track clerk prior to race time so it can be distributed.....in lieu of this the 10% of winner's purse kicks in.....there appear to be flat rate minimum fees for non-winning rides as well, but it is unclear to me if purse percentages kick on here or not as this is subject to changes and jurisdictions...

I would think that most if not all top riders have contracts with their respective owners/ trainers for Stakes races and may follow the 10% rule for non-Stakes races....but I have NO direct knowledge or experience in these matters, so don't believe anything I say here, please.

In the case of the Pegasus, I would speculate that rider fees typically didn't follow the 10% rule, as this seems like an excessive amount of money to pay ($700,000) to a jockey for one ride....even $25,000 for 5th through 12th seems like a lot to pay seeing how the owner lost $750,000 already.....

[VigorsTheGrey]

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regulations_database.asp?form_quer y_action=display_rule&form_query_rule_number=1632&form_query_rule_title=Jockeys+Riding+Fee%2E&form_query_article=Jockeys+Riding+Fee%2E&form_query_article_index=7&form_query_argument=1632

Side Note: It appears from this document that any jockey gets paid the same flat fee for a losing mount from 4th on down to last....therefore, there does not appear to be any financial purse incentive for a rider to attempt a better placing if he knows he cannot get at least the show dough..

...he gets the same money if he finishes 4th or last or anything in between...unless a separate agreement is on file , or the purse states something different...

[SuperPickle]

I'm not quite grasping the issue on 10%.

I'm missing a decent argument on why these guys aren't worth 10%?

[VigorsTheGrey]

I'm thinking the top jocks have separate contracts with their owners...Who knows what they make on a race like Pegasus....If the owner of one of these top runners comes to you and says, "Look, we like you Jockey X, and we want you to ride our horse, but we think $300,000 is plenty, plenty generous if you win here...so that's all we got penciled in for the rider here ok...? What does Jockey X do...? Does he want more great mounts in the future..? Is 300K plenty good money.....? Unless you can show me something that says Mike made 10 percent of the win purse, I can believe what I want....A jockeys "worth" has nothing to do with this...it is just business, that all...

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Do agents usually get 25% of the jockey cut?

Usually the standard from the guys I know, but im sure there are some exceptions.

[SuperPickle]

I'm thinking the top jocks have separate contracts with their owners...Who knows what they make on a race like Pegasus....If the owner of one of these top runners comes to you and says, "Look, we like you Jockey X, and we want you to ride our horse, but we think $300,000 is plenty, plenty generous if you win here...so that's all we got penciled in for the rider here ok...? What does Jockey X do...? Does he want more great mounts in the future..? Is 300K plenty good money.....? Unless you can show me something that says Mike made 10 percent of the win purse, I can believe what I want....A jockeys "worth" has nothing to do with this...it is just business, that all...

Jesus Christ that's a lot of mental gymnastics to go no where.

You do understand they have a guild or a union. The union has negotiated their standard fees for its members which are 10/5/5 and a mount fee on scale of purse. Do you think any of the top jockeys are going to ride your horse for less than those fees? The answer is no.

Can you offer $300k? Sure. But your horse is either going to ridden by nobody or a glorified exercise boy. Oh and all the jockeys/horseman and owners will leak the $300k so you'll be ridiculed and mocked and probably have a tough time booking jockeys in the future.

Seriously try thinking things out. Yes you could offer $300k. Now think about what happens after that.

[green80]

Jocks under 'deals' would rebate that money back to the owner. It's amazing to me that the track has already decided how much the jockey and trainer should get from the purse, that should be supply and demand, especially for an easily replaceable Pvt contractor

Good luck with getting any jock to rebate you any money he has earned. Dont forget the jockey has to pay his agent, valet and other expenses. I wouldn't want to guess how much a jockey's disability insurance is.
Now the trainer is a different deal, you just pay him directly according to your deal. The track has no part and doesn't care what you pay your trainer. The 10% is just kind of a standard deal that a lot of trainers charge in addition to day money.

[Fager Fan]

I did a little research....couldn't find the Florida rulebook, but the rulebook for California says something to the effect that the 10% of winning purse is a guide line in lieu of a separate agreement on file with the track....the owner and jockey apparently can make any fee contract amount they wish but the agreed upon fee amount must be delivered to the track clerk prior to race time so it can be distributed.....in lieu of this the 10% of winner's purse kicks in.....there appear to be flat rate minimum fees for non-winning rides as well, but it is unclear to me if purse percentages kick on here or not as this is subject to changes and jurisdictions...

I would think that most if not all top riders have contracts with their respective owners/ trainers for Stakes races and may follow the 10% rule for non-Stakes races....but I have NO direct knowledge or experience in these matters, so don't believe anything I say here, please.

In the case of the Pegasus, I would speculate that rider fees typically didn't follow the 10% rule, as this seems like an excessive amount of money to pay ($700,000) to a jockey for one ride....even $25,000 for 5th through 12th seems like a lot to pay seeing how the owner lost $750,000 already.....

It's always 10% for the winning ride at minimum. There may be som occasions where they charge more. Never less.

[Fager Fan]

I'm thinking the top jocks have separate contracts with their owners...Who knows what they make on a race like Pegasus....If the owner of one of these top runners comes to you and says, "Look, we like you Jockey X, and we want you to ride our horse, but we think $300,000 is plenty, plenty generous if you win here...so that's all we got penciled in for the rider here ok...? What does Jockey X do...? Does he want more great mounts in the future..? Is 300K plenty good money.....? Unless you can show me something that says Mike made 10 percent of the win purse, I can believe what I want....A jockeys "worth" has nothing to do with this...it is just business, that all...

No, there aren't separate contracts for top jocks/owners/horses.

[SuperPickle]

It's always 10% for the winning ride at minimum. There may be som occasions where they charge more. Never less.

Exactly guys get extra money, perks, or mounts or guarantees but never less than 10%. Again no one is riding your horse for less than the normal rates.

[onefast99]

Good luck with getting any jock to rebate you any money he has earned. Dont forget the jockey has to pay his agent, valet and other expenses. I wouldn't want to guess how much a jockey's disability insurance is.
Now the trainer is a different deal, you just pay him directly according to your deal. The track has no part and doesn't care what you pay your trainer. The 10% is just kind of a standard deal that a lot of trainers charge in addition to day money.
For all of those who think trainers don't get paid from the track, there are many tracks that take both the fees for the jockey and trainer out of the owners purse winnings. Delaware is one of those that do. NJ tracks take out the 10% for win only for both trainer and jockey. They do not do 2nd or third place monies for the trainer just the jockey.

[ultracapper]

I'd bet plenty that Smith walked out with at least a cool half mil after expenses.

Cut a discount deal with Mike Smith to ride your $50,000,000 golden goose? I can't see it happening either. I could see the owner sweetening it, but not the other way around. Mike Smith is as much a baby sitter for those 2 minutes as he is a jockey. When Arrogate runs, you want him taken care of in every way.