The Wall With Mexico: Concerns

[Teach]

“We’re Going To Build The Wall, And Mexico’s Going To Pay For It.” Donald Trump used that phrase over and over again throughout his presidential campaign. Now it appears that that border wall between the U.S. and Mexico will come to fruition. Yet, there are concerns:

My major concern: Is Mexico really going to pay for the wall? President Trump promises that will be the case – one way or another. The Mexican President, Enrique Pena Nieto, says “No Way!” As for President Trump, he appears to have “walked back” from a 20% tariff (the operative word is appears. It’s the old “Let’s run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it”) on imported Mexican goods. White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, recently said that a 20 percent import tax was one idea in ‘‘a buffet of options’’ to pay for the border wall. If President Trump does impose a 20% tariff, it will most definitely cost American jobs. Also, get ready to pay more for Mexican products, e.g., tequila, Corona, not to mention fruits and vegetables, even Toyota Camrys. The irony of this tariff approach would be that it brings about major harm to Mexico’s economy; it could spur even more people to try to somehow cross the border into the United States — undercutting President Trump’s major goal of stopping illegal immigration. Further, would an import tax be legal? We do have trade agreements that are now in place. Can we unilaterally abrogate them?

Well, this begs the question. Who picks up the tab for the estimated $15 to $20 billion cost of this project (not to mention possible overruns)? You get three guesses, the first two don’t count: Bingo! The American taxpayer. In fact, it’s possible that we might very well get hit with a double whammy. Increased income taxes and increased cost of Mexican products.

So we “front” the cost of building “The Wall” and we, the U.S. taxpayer, receive assurances that will get paid back later. But, what if, in the interim, economic conditions change? They worsen. Our government now tells us we can’t pay you back, just yet. Be patient, they say. When things improve… Further, there will likely be continuing financial obligations in maintaining and protecting the wall. One final thought: What about the costs incurred by our government in the taking of land near the border by “eminent domain”? That could run a pretty penny. Finally, there are a myriad of concerns, some of which have not been cited, and many of which are still unresolved, when it comes to financing this wall.

Furthermore, let’s say that this border wall has been completed. The border, for all intents and purposes, is safe and secure. No one passes through it without our say-so. Well, let me toss out a few scenarios. What would stop “coyotes” (Mexican smugglers) from finding other means to get Mexicans into the U.S., thus circumventing the wall? One such method would be to tunnel under the wall (there are, as I understand it, already some) at various place along the border (Do you think the Mexican government would ardently crack down on these operations?). What if the Mexicans seeking to enter the U.S. use night-vision drones to find unpatrolled places where ladders can be thrown up against the wall allowing for easy passage into America? What about make-shift water craft (balseros, as used by Cubans), near the mouth of the Rio Grande near Brownsville. There are many hiding places there, e.g., inlets, sand bars, etc. Or, even on the Pacific side, just north of Tijuana. In a nutshell, even with the construction of this wall, a daunting task still remains for the U.S. Border Patrol.

One final thought: This border-wall construction can have international consequences. Not the least of which is the possibility of a world-wide trade war. That would likely mean higher costs for American consumers and the loss of American jobs. Moreover, the world, geopolitically, is a fragile place. It’s like a series of aligned dominos, one action can trigger another, and then another.

In conclusion, yes, as promised, we’re going to build a border wall between the U.S. and Mexico. Yet, the possible consequences of that action are still unknown.

[davew]

I have been trying to convince all my friends to take the doors off their house - what are they trying to keep in/out?

[Sinner369]

The Berlin Wall between East and West Germany was built for the same purpose..........and people still made escapes........even though it was smaller and more heavily patrol.

[xtb]

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

[forced89]

What is most likely to happen is Congress will pass an overall tax on imports as part of tax reform. Note that most other countries already do this. Trump will declare victory and say that collecting this tax on imports from Mexico is Mexico paying for the wall. A little disingenuous but he will get away with it.

[chadk66]

What is most likely to happen is Congress will pass an overall tax on imports as part of tax reform. Note that most other countries already do this. Trump will declare victory and say that collecting this tax on imports from Mexico is Mexico paying for the wall. A little disingenuous but he will get away with it.he's already said he wants a 20% tax on imports from mexico to pay for it.

[chadk66]

so far all that Trump has done he said he would do. I have no reason to doubt he is going to build the wall and eventually Mexico will pay for it. It's going to be built in some way,shape or form so we might as well concede to it. The only people that could be against it are people that think they gain by illegal aliens coming and going from this country any time they damn well please. I don't know how old most of you are but many I'm sure remember the near daily bombings in Israel. Well they built the wall and it's come to a complete stop for the most part. It is damn well worth the shot building it. This government wastes far more than this on an annual basis. Trump will reign in that waste and that alone could pay for the wall. This guy is a businessman that did amazingly well. We need to trust he knows what he is doing in regard to paying for it. But I'm guessing many use that excuse to cover up their real angst against the wall.

[woodtoo]

"At this point, what difference does it really make" :lol:

[Tom]

"I don't always put tariffs on beer, but when I do, it is Dos Equis!

---Donald Trump, the most interesting world leader, 2017

[johnhannibalsmith]

The best part is reading someone else that more than likely never saw a government expenditure he didn't like suddenly worried about taxpayers and their money.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Consequences of building the wall -- ZERO!!!

American will be a better and safer place for Americans to live.

Mexico paying for it is not high on my importance list, but I'd be surprised if negotiations with them on the wall DOES NOT improve our bottom line.

President Trump continues to make questionable statements (because he is a human being, not a politician), but his actions have been nothing short of outstanding. I know its only a week, but he just may be the best POTUS ever.

[woodtoo]

Hang on Jess, the week isn't over yet. :D

[boxcar]

Mexico paying for it is not high on my importance list, but I'd be surprised if negotiations with them on the wall DOES NOT improve our bottom line.

I'm with you on this. I don't give a flip, at this point, who pays for the wall. If we should end up paying for it, the 20 billion or whatever is chump change compared to what we spend to take care of this nation's illegals and other welfare junkies and other wasteful expenditures.

[MutuelClerk]

Tunnels.

[zico20]

So Teach, you are worried about 15-20 billion? Did you check yourself into a nut house when Obama proposed and passed close to one trillion in the stimulus package. Are you posting this from the nut house, and if so, when is your release date. Get well soon!

[davew]

So Teach, you are worried about 15-20 billion? Did you check yourself into a nut house when Obama proposed and passed close to one trillion in the stimulus package. Are you posting this from the nut house, and if so, when is your release date. Get well soon!


but that trillion went to important things, like banks so they could keep giving giant bonuses and donations to democrats

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Tunnels.

Certainly an issue. Hopefully it will be addressed successfully.

[boxcar]

Certainly an issue. Hopefully it will be addressed successfully.

Land mines should do the trick.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

You know who is crapping a brick right now? The Congress. Back when Obama was president they could be as looney as they wanted to be because there was no danger their programs would get signed. But now you have an appropriations bill for the wall, and the potential of having to pass a 20% tariff. All of a sudden it's real. They could actually have to own the deal. Plenty of things could go wrong and you couldn't blame the Democrats like you have for the last eight years. Consumer prices could rise, and worst of all the biggest percentage of illegal immigration might not be stopped by the wall. That's right, I'm talking about the Chinese and Indians who each outnumber the Mexicans when if comes to illegal immigration. $10-15 billliion for the southern border, not a peep about the biggest illegal groups. Let's see what happens when the rubber meets the road.

[MONEY]

Mexico’s Immigration Law

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets “the equilibrium of the national demographics,” when foreigners are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when “they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy.” (Article 37)

http://www.tedmontgomery.com/remarks/10.1-6/ArizonaSB1070/MexicanImmigrationLaw.html

[EasyGoer89]

You can't worry about Americans picking up the tab if you don't also criticize th billions and millions that Obama loaded on a plane in cash and sent out of this country. The wall is a good expense even if America has to pay 100 pct for it, trump will recover that tax money in other areas, can't be critical of him if you're giving Obama a pass on loading cash into unmarked airplanes at 3am

[woodtoo]

Tunnels.
The wall just got 10 feet deeper. :D

[LottaKash]

“In conclusion, yes, as promised, we’re going to build a border wall between the U.S. and Mexico. Yet, the possible consequences of that action are still unknown.

Consequences, what consequences ?...

Are you suggesting that we don't, as all other nations of the world do, have a right to protect our borders, at all costs ?...

A government that doesn't protect it's own borders is worthless, imo...

Whey have countries or borders at all ?....We could be one big "BRAVE NEW WORLD"...get it ?

[chadk66]

The more the reality of the wall sets in the more insane the liberals become. They are scared to death it will actually work. :D

[classhandicapper]

"I don't always put tariffs on beer, but when I do, it is Dos Equis!

---Donald Trump, the most interesting world leader, 2017

:lol:

Sorry, I'm going to steal that one and post it somewhere else without giving you credit. ;)

[Tom]

Enough of this nonsense.

We have seen the consequences of open borders already - both here and in Europe.

There is more to life than "feeling good."
At some point, you have to grow up.

[anotherCAfan]

I would imagine that there are many other countries (ranging from Japan and Korea, to Nicaragua and Bangladesh) that would love to sell us their "stuff", if it becomes too expensive for Mexico to sell us their "stuff".

And of course, I would prefer to see said "stuff" be manufactured in America to the extent possible.


Open question: how much, if any, foreign aid do we give to Mexico? Perhaps they ought to be concerned about that.

[LottaKash]

Historically, it used to be when a Bad Guy wanted to escape his prosecution, he would head to Mexico...

Now it seems, it is the other way around... How did it get to be that way ?

24 years of globalizers, that's how...

I can't understand anyone that wouldn't want to protect themselves from harm or enemies... And, it begins right at the border...

Again, our gov't representatives, for a very long time, have let us down when, BIG TIME, when it comes to protecting our sovereignty, and now Donald is trying to fix that...How can anyone be against that ?...

[Inner Dirt]

I do not understand why everyone complains about a level playing field. 20% tariff?, So what, my Aunt lives in Mexico, most everything brought into Mexico even items you can't buy there is hit with an average tariff of 15-20%. If a citizen of the USA runs a foul of the law in Mexico they can be in deep crap, even on crimes they did not commit. If a cop pulls you over there you better at least have a $20 bill handy. USA citizens have less rights than animals in Mexico, yet we are supposed to treat their people illegally in this country better than our own citizens. FTS, sick and tired of the USA bending over backwards for other countries. Trump seems to be like a monkey with a loaded AK-47, but maybe that is what we need.

[EasyGoer89]

I do not understand why everyone complains about a level playing field. 20% tariff?, So what, my Aunt lives in Mexico, most everything brought into Mexico even items you can't buy there is hit with an average tariff of 15-20%. If a citizen of the USA runs a foul of the law in Mexico they can be in deep crap, even on crimes they did not commit. If a cop pulls you over there you better at least have a $20 bill handy. USA citizens have less rights than animals in Mexico, yet we are supposed to treat their people illegally in this country better than our own citizens. FTS, sick and tired of the USA bending over backwards for other countries. Trump seems to be like a monkey with a loaded AK-47, but maybe that is what we need.

Your last sentence is only true if you believe the msm narrative that he's 'dangerous'

Trump is a big softie, anyone who cares to look can see this.

[davew]

Consequences, what consequences ?...




It might interfere with the natural migration pattern of the Sonoran pronghorn, which many people realize is an endangered species. We will probably need an environmental impact plan and an acceptable compensatory mitigation program outlined before construction could possibly start.

[Inner Dirt]

Your last sentence is only true if you believe the msm narrative that he's 'dangerous'

Trump is a big softie, anyone who cares to look can see this.

Maybe I needed a better line than "Monkey with AK-47." I meant he came in with guns a blazing. I thought since he wasn't a politician he would go at things slowly, instead he seems to be dropping bombs left and right. So far I don't have problems with anything, just thought he would proceed with more caution.

[forced89]

he's already said he wants a 20% tax on imports from mexico to pay for it.

My point is that it will be part of comprehensive tax reform applicable to all imports, not just from Mexico.

[chadk66]

My point is that it will be part of comprehensive tax reform applicable to all imports, not just from Mexico.I have no problem with that

[Tom]

It might interfere with the natural migration pattern of the Sonoran pronghorn, which many people realize is an endangered species. We will probably need an environmental impact plan and an acceptable compensatory mitigation program outlined before construction could possibly start.

Funny you should mention this.
Last night, I had roasted pronghorn. It was perfectly prepared.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

So the Mexicans are trying to think of ways to get back at Trump for The Wall. They are considering various options including

- throwing all U.S. law enforcement agencies out of the country

- discontinuing inspections of trucks going north

- no longer trying to stop drugs going north. The quote was, "Let the wall stop them."

- not stopping central american refugees looking to go north

Like most of the pitchfork and axe handle crowd, it's react first, then once you've found yourself in the soup figure out if the consequences are acceptable. If you were trying to come up with a list of the stupidest things to have a cultural/economic war, it is to have a sovereign country pay for your wall.

“For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”
Hosea, 8:7

[Teach]

But Boeing and Wackenhut stock. Mucho Dinero!.

[zico20]

So the Mexicans are trying to think of ways to get back at Trump for The Wall. They are considering various options including

- throwing all U.S. law enforcement agencies out of the country

- discontinuing inspections of trucks going north

- no longer trying to stop drugs going north. The quote was, "Let the wall stop them."

- not stopping central american refugees looking to go north

Like most of the pitchfork and axe handle crowd, it's react first, then once you've found yourself in the soup figure out if the consequences are acceptable. If you were trying to come up with a list of the stupidest things to have a cultural/economic war, it is to have a sovereign country pay for your wall.

“For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”
Hosea, 8:7

Mexico is already a shit hole, throwing out US law enforcement agencies won't change anything. :D

2-4 Mexico does a real fine job now. :lol: All four of them mean squat in comparison to building the wall.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Mexico is already a shit hole, throwing out US law enforcement agencies won't change anything. :D

2-4 Mexico does a real fine job now. :lol: All four of them mean squat in comparison to building the wall.
You do know why U.S. law enforcement is there, right?

[AndyC]

So the Mexicans are trying to think of ways to get back at Trump for The Wall. They are considering various options including

- throwing all U.S. law enforcement agencies out of the country

- discontinuing inspections of trucks going north

- no longer trying to stop drugs going north. The quote was, "Let the wall stop them."

- not stopping central american refugees looking to go north

Like most of the pitchfork and axe handle crowd, it's react first, then once you've found yourself in the soup figure out if the consequences are acceptable. If you were trying to come up with a list of the stupidest things to have a cultural/economic war, it is to have a sovereign country pay for your wall.

“For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”
Hosea, 8:7

Trucks are inspected by the US before entry.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Trucks are inspected by the US before entry.
Well, you wouldn't know this, but I spent a year at the border looking at ways to increase efficiency without compromising security, and I spent many hours at the inspection facilities as well as the crossing stations. I'm highly familiar with what goes on at the border. Mexico inspects trucks going North for various reasons, and in particular the drayage vehicles that move goods from Mexican warehouses to American warehouses. Many of the trucks (and rail cars) that are inspected in Mexico are sealed by the Mexicans, and once on the American side ICE agents can see if the seals have been tampered with, giving them cause to do more intense inspection. In the same regard the U.S. does inspections of some vehicles moving south, primarily looking for guns and money. Vehicles that are turned back by Mexico (or the U.S.) are vehicles that won't slip though the inspection process. It's a protocol that has long been in place at the border and it part of the cooperative border management process.

[zico20]

You do know why U.S. law enforcement is there, right?

Two reasons are to fight drug trafficking and organized crime. If there are other reasons, please let me know.

[chadk66]

Well, you wouldn't know this, but I spent a year at the border looking at ways to increase efficiency without compromising security, and I spent many hours at the inspection facilities as well as the crossing stations. I'm highly familiar with what goes on at the border. Mexico inspects trucks going North for various reasons, and in particular the drayage vehicles that move goods from Mexican warehouses to American warehouses. Many of the trucks (and rail cars) that are inspected in Mexico are sealed by the Mexicans, and once on the American side ICE agents can see if the seals have been tampered with, giving them cause to do more intense inspection. In the same regard the U.S. does inspections of some vehicles moving south, primarily looking for guns and money. Vehicles that are turned back by Mexico (or the U.S.) are vehicles that won't slip though the inspection process. It's a protocol that has long been in place at the border and it part of the cooperative border management process.when did you spend this year at the border?

[AndyC]

Well, you wouldn't know this, but I spent a year at the border looking at ways to increase efficiency without compromising security, and I spent many hours at the inspection facilities as well as the crossing stations. I'm highly familiar with what goes on at the border. Mexico inspects trucks going North for various reasons, and in particular the drayage vehicles that move goods from Mexican warehouses to American warehouses. Many of the trucks (and rail cars) that are inspected in Mexico are sealed by the Mexicans, and once on the American side ICE agents can see if the seals have been tampered with, giving them cause to do more intense inspection. In the same regard the U.S. does inspections of some vehicles moving south, primarily looking for guns and money. Vehicles that are turned back by Mexico (or the U.S.) are vehicles that won't slip though the inspection process. It's a protocol that has long been in place at the border and it part of the cooperative border management process.

Let me see if I understand your point. Mexico will stop inspections of trucks resulting in what? Greatly slowing down the border crossing so that Mexican businesses will ship less goods to the US. How is this leverage for Mexico? Mexico has zero leverage vs the US. Any of the tactics you listed would hurt Mexico more than the US. Not exactly a winning hand.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

when did you spend this year at the border?
In the early 2000's. I was doing a lot of work with the Mexican government up until about 2010, mostly on energy and air quality issues. Most of the recommendations got thrown out the window after 9/11 though, although eventually one of the main recommendations for the two agencies at the border (at that time Immigration and Naturalization and Customs) to merge was done.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Let me see if I understand your point. Mexico will stop inspections of trucks resulting in what? Greatly slowing down the border crossing so that Mexican businesses will ship less goods to the US. How is this leverage for Mexico? Mexico has zero leverage vs the US. Any of the tactics you listed would hurt Mexico more than the US. Not exactly a winning hand.
I listed what Mexico said. You're in another area you don't have any experience in and you're going to disagree to be disagreeable. If you thought about it for two minutes, assuming you have the cognitive capability, you'd understand why the relationship is in the best interest of the U.S. as well. The fact that you think having the Mexicans partner with us on drug interdiction and stopping central american refugees isn't in our best interest doesn't exactly Trumpet your analytical abilities.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I listed what Mexico said. You're in another area you don't have any experience in and you're going to disagree to be disagreeable. If you thought about it for two minutes, assuming you have the cognitive capability, you'd understand why the relationship is in the best interest of the U.S. as well. The fact that you think having the Mexicans partner with us on drug interdiction and stopping central american refugees isn't in our best interest doesn't exactly Trumpet your analytical abilities.

In general, I don't agree with Trump on trade, but AndyC is simply saying the US has more leverage over Mexico on the trade front than vice-versa. One doesn't need to live on the border, or work at a government think tank, to take and defend such a reasonable position.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

No concerns. The wall means significantly less illegal aliens.

Next!

[PaceAdvantage]

Fewer... :lol:

[AndyC]

I listed what Mexico said. You're in another area you don't have any experience in and you're going to disagree to be disagreeable. If you thought about it for two minutes, assuming you have the cognitive capability, you'd understand why the relationship is in the best interest of the U.S. as well. The fact that you think having the Mexicans partner with us on drug interdiction and stopping central american refugees isn't in our best interest doesn't exactly Trumpet your analytical abilities.

Thanks for the kind words. Let's test your comprehension. Did I state that the relationship is not in the best interest of the US? Did I state or even imply that having the Mexicans partner with us on drug interdiction is bad? I did neither yet you felt necessary to offer your ridicule.

[JustRalph]

Not concerned

There were 475,000 crimes committed in Texas last year by illegals

Maybe we can cut 25% off of that number

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Not concerned

There were 475,000 crimes committed in Texas last year by illegals

Maybe we can cut 25% off of that number

Obama and the Democrats let so many illegals in that it will be impossible to totally clean up their mess. But fortunately we are moving in the right direction.

[TJDave]

There were 475,000 crimes committed in Texas last year by illegals

Where did you get your figures?

[chadk66]

Where did you get your figures?I've seen that figure too. And also 38% of inmates in our federal prison system are illegals.

[letswastemoney]

I'm sick of illegal immigrants getting free health care, education and other resources.

It is arguable whether giving handouts to people is a good idea, but if anyone should get free stuff, it is American citizens who are struggling.

[JustRalph]

Where did you get your figures?

From Rick Perry

[ebcorde]

Trump promised the roaring 20's economy And He can't do it without Mexico.
Mexico not happy, they walk. Nafta is over and say bye-bye to Trump's promises.


Now Carlos Slim wants in. Well well well since Trump measures intelligence by how big the bank account is. That means Mexico wins again. :lol:

see ya later boys.

[TJDave]

From Rick Perry

The Texas Department of Public Safety disagrees.

"Between 6-1-2011 and 12-31-2016 there were 559,000 criminal acts committed by 210,000 criminal aliens. Of the 210,000, 139,000 or 66% were identified as being illegal aliens."

[AndyC]

Trump promised the roaring 20's economy And He can't do it without Mexico.
Mexico not happy, they walk. Nafta is over and say bye-bye to Trump's promises.


Now Carlos Slim wants in. Well well well since Trump measures intelligence by how big the bank account is. That means Mexico wins again. :lol:

see ya later boys.

Mexico walks where? Their economy is totally dependent on the US. Mexico would be a bigger underdog than the Washington Generals would be against the Globetrotters.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Five minutes from now he'll be posting the exact opposite in another thread. Don't bother.

[JustRalph]

The Texas Department of Public Safety disagrees.

"Between 6-1-2011 and 12-31-2016 there were 559,000 criminal acts committed by 210,000 criminal aliens. Of the 210,000, 139,000 or 66% were identified as being illegal aliens."

I don't know what their criteria is, I don't care. I saw Rick Perry and a couple border Sheriff's use that number. I'll believe them........

[HalvOnHorseracing]

In general, I don't agree with Trump on trade, but AndyC is simply saying the US has more leverage over Mexico on the trade front than vice-versa. One doesn't need to live on the border, or work at a government think tank, to take and defend such a reasonable position.
Yeah, it was a little more subtle.I simply mentioned things Mexico was thinking of for retaliation. He said,

Any of the tactics you listed would hurt Mexico more than the US. Not exactly a winning hand.

I disagree it is a reasonable position, even if you think the balance of hurt is in our favor. If I said, let's you and I fight and I wind up with two broken legs and you one, the argument that you did better than me in the outcome is pretty small consolation.

The other thing is that when you look at trade between the countries, we have as much to lose as Mexico, from oil imports to finished goods from Mexican assembly plants. And even if Mexico isn't threatening those areas, does it really make sense that Mexico has more to lose than the U.S. if they throw our law enforcement people out, stop inspecting trucks on the Mexican side, quit stopping Central American illegals, and ignore cartels moving drugs into the U.S. (which is another discussion. Mexico has seriously considered making drugs legal.) I have a feeling not too many here know how much effort Mexico puts into stopping central american illegals, and certainly our drug interdiction has benefitted greatly from Mexico's cooperation. I honestly thought his statement was meant to disagree just to be disagreeable, but otherwise made no sense.

Like the last discussion I had with Andy, this happened to be an area where I had a lot of experience at the border and with the two governments. A reasonable position has to be informed with clear facts.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Thanks for the kind words. Let's test your comprehension. Did I state that the relationship is not in the best interest of the US? Did I state or even imply that having the Mexicans partner with us on drug interdiction is bad? I did neither yet you felt necessary to offer your ridicule.
You said

Any of the tactics you listed would hurt Mexico more than the US. Not exactly a winning hand.

In fact, you said Mexico has zero leverage. Yeah, I ridicule the statement for reasons I cited in the above post. As far as I could tell, your post was essentially, screw the Mexicans, we'll get along fine if they do those things because they have zero leverage. In other words, yeah, you inferred the relationship was essentially one sided, that we could be apathetic about relationships we might have with the Mexicans in those areas.

Let's be realistic. If you thought the U.S. would be disadvantaged, you would have said so. Instead you said the opposite. You can't have it both ways. Either it's bad for the U.S. too or it isn't. And if it is bad for the U.S., that's leverage. NOT ZERO LEVERAGE.

I don't think the problem is my comprehension. I think you're having trouble understanding what you mean with with your wrote. You basically trash the initial Mexican suggestions as meaningless, then try to convince me you weren't saying that.

[JustRalph]

What's Mexico going to Do? Send millions of dollars worth of drugs over the border and kill thousands of teenagers?

They could also instruct all that are already here to cause thousands of car accidents killing hundreds of Americans, run from the police with no insurance etc. They might even instruct them to commit drug related robberies and murders.

But then again......that would be redundant

[EasyGoer89]

Trumps not going to make Mexico pay for the wall, but, instead, he's going to be able to negotiate a trade deal that's much more valuable to the US than the tax dollars they were going to have to spend. Trump letsMexico save face, Mexico is thrilled they're not paying for the wall, but trump got a deal for the USA by hanging the 'wall' over the heads of everyone.

#artofthedeal

[chadk66]

In the early 2000's. I was doing a lot of work with the Mexican government up until about 2010, mostly on energy and air quality issues. Most of the recommendations got thrown out the window after 9/11 though, although eventually one of the main recommendations for the two agencies at the border (at that time Immigration and Naturalization and Customs) to merge was done.I'm sure your aware they have far better equipment at the border now to inspect trucks with. The VACIS system and dogs will do far more than any mexican inspector will ever dream about doing. And nobody in their right mind would ever trust mexican inspectors to inspect a damn thing. We don't need them to do anything.

[reckless]

The Texas Department of Public Safety disagrees.

"Between 6-1-2011 and 12-31-2016 there were 559,000 criminal acts committed by 210,000 criminal aliens. Of the 210,000, 139,000 or 66% were identified as being illegal aliens."

Do you believe that because there are differences in the figures between what JustRalph said and those that you cited from the Texas Dept. of Public Safety that there is not a problem with illegal immigrants and the crimes they commit?

I gather from your post, etc. ... that the crimes and figure committed by illegal aliens are somehow acceptable.

[zico20]

Do you believe that because there are differences in the figures between what JustRalph said and those that you cited from the Texas Dept. of Public Safety that there is not a problem with illegal immigrants and the crimes they commit?

I gather from your post, etc. ... that the crimes and figure committed by illegal aliens are somehow acceptable.

Reckless, do you not understand that crimes committed by illegals means nothing to liberals. They have one goal and one goal only, to get as many here and allow them to become citizens and then get them to vote Democrat and wipe out the Republican party. Nothing else matters.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Reckless, do you not understand that crimes committed by illegals means nothing to liberals. They have one goal and one goal only, to get as many here and allow them to become citizens and then get them to vote Democrat and wipe out the Republican party. Nothing else matters.

Of course.

Similarly, in the years before Obamacare, the Democrats blocked tort reform, and giving us the ability to buy insurance across state lines because they knew the cost of health care would continue to rise without those changes.

The reason? Make the people desperate for socialized medicine.

End result. Obamacare, which led to the take over of Congress and the White House by the Republicans.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... and wipe out the Republican party. ...

Then they'd have to be held accountable for awful policy. They need and welcome the cover of having a foil. Party politics demands it.

[zico20]

Of course.

Similarly, in the years before Obamacare, the Democrats blocked tort reform, and giving us the ability to buy insurance across state lines because they knew the cost of health care would continue to rise without those changes.

The reason? Make the people desperate for socialized medicine.

End result. Obamacare, which led to the take over of Congress and the White House by the Republicans.

Exactly, and once the government has complete control over citizens health care they can move on to the next opportunity to seize more power from the people. Eventually the 10th amendment will be repealed, something Democrats have been aiming for for decades.

[AndyC]

You said

Any of the tactics you listed would hurt Mexico more than the US. Not exactly a winning hand.

In fact, you said Mexico has zero leverage. Yeah, I ridicule the statement for reasons I cited in the above post. As far as I could tell, your post was essentially, screw the Mexicans, we'll get along fine if they do those things because they have zero leverage. In other words, yeah, you inferred the relationship was essentially one sided, that we could be apathetic about relationships we might have with the Mexicans in those areas.

Let's be realistic. If you thought the U.S. would be disadvantaged, you would have said so. Instead you said the opposite. You can't have it both ways. Either it's bad for the U.S. too or it isn't. And if it is bad for the U.S., that's leverage. NOT ZERO LEVERAGE.

I don't think the problem is my comprehension. I think you're having trouble understanding what you mean with with your wrote. You basically trash the initial Mexican suggestions as meaningless, then try to convince me you weren't saying that.


My comment was regarding your post: "If you thought about it for two minutes, assuming you have the cognitive capability, you'd understand why the relationship is in the best interest of the U.S. as well. The fact that you think having the Mexicans partner with us on drug interdiction and stopping central american refugees isn't in our best interest doesn't exactly Trumpet your analytical abilities."

Why do you insist on stating what you think my thoughts are on subjects I have not expressed thoughts on?

There are two distinct issues. 1. The effects of the possible reactions to a border tax or trade restrictions and 2. Trumps policy with regard to Mexico.

I don't agree with Trump regarding his policy of border taxes and trade restrictions. And I certainly maintain that Mexico has no leverage in any kind of negotiation with Trump.

[AndyC]

.......Let's be realistic. If you thought the U.S. would be disadvantaged, you would have said so. Instead you said the opposite. You can't have it both ways. Either it's bad for the U.S. too or it isn't. And if it is bad for the U.S., that's leverage. NOT ZERO LEVERAGE.

Mexico's economy depends on the US. The reverse is not true. Trump knows that and Mexico knows that. Any actions taken by Mexico will result in far more damage to the Mexican economy than to the US economy, hence they have no leverage.

[boxcar]

Reckless, do you not understand that crimes committed by illegals means nothing to liberals. They have one goal and one goal only, to get as many here and allow them to become citizens and then get them to vote Democrat and wipe out the Republican party. Nothing else matters.

And not only that but the leftists, who suffer from the chronic and deadly mental disease WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Phobia), want to make the white folks in this country a minority yesterday! And the quickest way of doing that is to allow as many "people of color" into this country as they can.
This is one of the major reasons (if not the biggest one of all) why the Dems are seeing red right now and imploding over the border issue and the ban on Muslims -- because Trump is about to arrest their disease -- at least for now.

[reckless]

I predict, from this moment on, if there is any difficulty President Donald J. Trump encounters in the next four years it will come mostly from the stupid and squishy Republican Party.

Unknown to most GOP politicians to this day still, Trump is too smart, too strong, and too on the correct side of all these issues and problems... and he'll be able to overcome many roadblocks.

You can go to the bank on this.

[lamboguy]

I predict, from this moment on, if there is any difficulty President Donald J. Trump encounters in the next four years it will come mostly from the stupid and squishy Republican Party.

Unknown to most GOP politicians to this day still, Trump is too smart, too strong, and too on the correct side of all these issues and problems... and he'll be able to overcome many roadblocks.

You can go to the bank on this.he has put together the best leadership team i have ever seen by anyone ever. he is going to nominate ultra conservative supreme court judges. so that should make the republican's happy. on the other side he is going to be bringing plenty of construction jobs, making sure social security gets paid, and that a healthcare plan will exist somehow. and he is feeding the media with plenty of nonsense to keep them happy as well, probably by design.

how sharp is he?

[zico20]

And not only that but the leftists, who suffer from the chronic and deadly mental disease WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Phobia), want to make the white folks in this country a minority yesterday! And the quickest way of doing that is to allow as many "people of color" into this country as they can.
This is one of the major reasons (if not the biggest one of all) why the Dems are seeing red right now and imploding over the border issue and the ban on Muslims -- because Trump is about to arrest their disease -- at least for now.

Don't forget non Christians too. They overwhelmingly vote Democrat. Then the crusade to wipe out Christianity has begun. Christmas will be replaced with Holiday Day on December 25.

[TJDave]

I don't know what their criteria is, I don't care. I saw Rick Perry and a couple border Sheriff's use that number. I'll believe them........

Believing something doesn't make it true. The Texas Department of Public Safety is charged with compiling crime statistics...

Not Rick Perry.

[reckless]

he has put together the best leadership team i have ever seen by anyone ever. he is going to nominate ultra conservative supreme court judges. so that should make the republican's happy. on the other side he is going to be bringing plenty of construction jobs, making sure social security gets paid, and that a healthcare plan will exist somehow. and he is feeding the media with plenty of nonsense to keep them happy as well, probably by design.

how sharp is he?

He is the sharpest president in US history. Since becoming President on November 8, 2016, plus the past week or so, he's accomplished more than anyone in history.

The squishy GOP just better wise up for their own good. They are on the wrong side of many Trump initiatives. Plus, collectively, they simply do not have the brains nor the b---lls to do battle with Trump.

[reckless]

Believing something doesn't make it true. The Texas Department of Public Safety is charged with compiling crime statistics...

Not Rick Perry.

Seems like your real goal in this discussion is only to try to get one-up on Just Ralph, and nothing more. Nothing serious coming from you, as if it ever did.

I guess it is OK then that of all the criminals in Texas 'only' 139,000 or 66% were identified as being illegal aliens.

:lol: :lol:

What a joke.

[TJDave]

Seems like your real goal in this discussion is only to try to get one-up on Just Ralph, and nothing more.

My only goal is truth.


I guess it is OK then that of all the criminals in Texas 'only' 139,000 or 66% were identified as being illegal aliens

Did I suggest it was OK?

And it wasn't 66% of all criminals. It was 66% of alien criminals. The vast majority of crimes are committed by Texas citizens. Please review the data.

[Tom]

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