Jockey agent suspended 10 years

[cj]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/219314/nysgc-suspends-jockey-agent-gonzalez-for-10-years

Honest questions:

1) What kind of race related information is there that is valuable?
2) Are people that can legally access this information allowed to bet?

[cj]

Was told the following on Twitter by Rob MacLennan ‏@RobMacASD:

" incompass is the system that takes entries. So as the horses were being entered in the morning he could see who was in race"

[upthecreek]

District Attorney Brown said that, according to the charges, the New York Racing Association maintains a computer system/database called InCompass which stores racetrack-related data, such as track conditions, thoroughbred statistics, thoroughbred health and injuries, thoroughbred availability and other restricted information. Access to the InCompass system is limited to only certain NYRA employees.


According to the charges, Gonzales paid a NYRA employee $100 a month to unlawfully use the employee's login and password to access NYRA's InCompass system on 170 different occasions between January 2, 2014, and April 1, 2015. Gonzalez allegedly used the InCompass system to review racing sheets and other data that provided him with information – including the track conditions, health and injuries of the racehorses and the identity of racehorses in need of a jockey – which he used to his own advantage to secure horses for his jockey.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I hope other tracks are paying attention.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I'm not sure why some of that information needs to be kept under wraps.

Track Conditions. I'll admit, I don't know what the secret part of this should be. The first thing that strikes me is that if it is something like moisture or track depth in various parts of the track, why shouldn't that be public? I guess I'm not seeing what the sensitive insider information could be.

Health and Injuries of race horses. Same thing as above. Why should the public not know which horses are injured, or for that matter which drugs the horse is taking?

Which horses don't have jockeys named. Another one I don't get. Why shouldn't agents know that? The only down side I can see is that they might bother trainers excessively.

Did they say what happened to the guy who sold him access?

[SuperPickle]

Was told the following on Twitter by Rob MacLennan ‏@RobMacASD:

" incompass is the system that takes entries. So as the horses were being entered in the morning he could see who was in race"

CJ, I'm not 100% sure on this but I believe he had access to entries as horses were entered but before entries were closed. Obviously he could then give that information to trainers to curry favor. He'd know how races were looking in advance.

Given you name a jockey at entry I'm not sure it helped his agent business.

[johnhannibalsmith]

CJ, I'm not 100% sure on this but I believe he had access to entries as horses were entered but before entries were closed. Obviously he could then give that information to trainers to curry favor. He'd know how races were looking in advance.

Given you name a jockey at entry I'm not sure it helped his agent business.

I don't know what this guy did, but this is exactly the potential case with this sort of scenario (unless InCompass has changed a lot in a short time). If there's a spot you have a question mark next to because of who might be in there and can know exactly who is in the race... yeah... its quite a bit of an advantage... And as an agent, one of the first questions you get asked when you go see a barn about a spot for a horse - "who's gonna be in there?"... You earn that 25% by keeping track of things yourself so you can prove your worth by answering those questions helpfully, not by dialing up the real-time information that only the office has access to. These sort of punishments for this kind of stuff should be the norm.

[AltonKelsey]

I can see where you could keep track of allowance types, but figuring out who will be in a claimer (not some 20-1 shot , but the live ones) would be pure guesswork.

So knowing for SURE what was entered would be a big advantage to some.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I think that is just it, knowing who is going where before they close and knowing how the race would set up given what is in there, then passing it on to trainers.

That being said, $100 a month doesnt seem like much when you consider the risk being taken.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I can see where you could keep track of allowance types, but figuring out who will be in a claimer (not some 20-1 shot , but the live ones) would be pure guesswork.

...

Nah, it's not a science but not that bad - just extra legwork. Make out your list of everyone you think might be looking at that spot, stop by the barns asking if they're gonna put you on anything ever because there's a good spot for the big horse today. About half the time or better you walk away with a pretty good idea if they are going there or not with something. :)

[EMD4ME]

This was big news on track when it first came out.

I'm glad, give him 10 and black list his butt till 2118

[JohnGalt1]

Is this a comparable punishment to a trainer who has many doping violations and is given a $500 fine?

Maybe the punishment for a trainer is less severe because he puts horses on the track, and you can always get another agent.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Maybe the punishment for a trainer is less severe because he puts horses on the track, and you can always get another agent.

More likely that this punishment is more or less the precedent for this type of offense that involves breaching a secure system for gain repeatedly.

[green80]

The only advantage that he would have is knowing who was in the race before the entries close. Most good agents can tell you who will be in a race before the overnight is out anyway. Any incompass info he obtained was of marginal help if any at all.

[AltonKelsey]

Yep. If you want to encourage rule violations and crime in general, a good way is to make first offense a slap on the wrist.

Most agents can count to 10, so they will remember this one. :cool:

Imagine the internal dialog, "So if I get caught , I drive UBER for 10 years, that makes me 56 when I can get back in ....nah, no thanks."

[johnhannibalsmith]

The only advantage that he would have is knowing who was in the race before the entries close. Most good agents can tell you who will be in a race before the overnight is out anyway. Any incompass info he obtained was of marginal help if any at all.

Remember we are talking New York here.

I trimmed back some of my completely unscientific percentages in my post for the simple reason that so many horses are coming from places other than the local backside supply that I do think InCompass on a circuit like NYRA - especially in the summer - would be a significant advantage.

[green80]

Remember we are talking New York here.

I trimmed back some of my completely unscientific percentages in my post for the simple reason that so many horses are coming from places other than the local backside supply that I do think InCompass on a circuit like NYRA - especially in the summer - would be a significant advantage.

I agree, tapping into Incompass would be of more help somewhere like NY than it would be where there is only a small local population of horses.

[mountainman]

I'm not sure why some of that information needs to be kept under wraps.

Track Conditions. I'll admit, I don't know what the secret part of this should be. The first thing that strikes me is that if it is something like moisture or track depth in various parts of the track, why shouldn't that be public? I guess I'm not seeing what the sensitive insider information could be.

Health and Injuries of race horses. Same thing as above. Why should the public not know which horses are injured, or for that matter which drugs the horse is taking?

Which horses don't have jockeys named. Another one I don't get. Why shouldn't agents know that? The only down side I can see is that they might bother trainers excessively.

Did they say what happened to the guy who sold him access?

He was looking at jock calls and which horses had been entered. And those are big no nos.

[mountainman]

I agree, tapping into Incompass would be of more help somewhere like NY than it would be where there is only a small local population of horses.

Actually, from the standpoint of potential mounts, illicit access to the system would be of more use at smaller tracks, where agents less often give out ironclad calls to trainers , which leaves things more up-in-the-air and more horses up for grabs.

A sharp agent hustling a decent product could thus obtain a big edge.

[mountainman]

I don't know what this guy did, but this is exactly the potential case with this sort of scenario (unless InCompass has changed a lot in a short time). If there's a spot you have a question mark next to because of who might be in there and can know exactly who is in the race... yeah... its quite a bit of an advantage... And as an agent, one of the first questions you get asked when you go see a barn about a spot for a horse - "who's gonna be in there?"... You earn that 25% by keeping track of things yourself so you can prove your worth by answering those questions helpfully, not by dialing up the real-time information that only the office has access to. These sort of punishments for this kind of stuff should be the norm.

It's our biggest fear. That somebody other than an official has access. We have even set traps now and then for suspiciously prescient agents.But there IS a little-known feature displaying how many people are logged in.

At Mnr, we don't even allow our crew to pull up a rundown screen. Any caller requesting even that basic info-much less anything inappropriate or proprietary- must go through me or Joe.

And out-hustled agents LOVE to accuse other agents of cracking the system.

I would bet my stuffed gorilla (weird superstition: I won't sleep unless he has clear line of sight to me) that a rival agent brought the feds into this.

[mountainman]

I can think of other benefits to invading the system. But those are unlikely to have been motivation.

[lamboguy]

does anyone know who this agent represented?

[camourous]

Agent hacks a computer and gets 10 years

Jockeys refuse to ride out to the wire and get a $4 fine.

[EMD4ME]

Agent hacks a computer and gets 10 years

Jockeys refuse to ride out to the wire and get a $4 fine.

That is SO NOT true.....

They get a zero $ fine :lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

At Mnr, we don't even allow our crew to pull up a rundown screen...

You mean you don't enjoy giving a 9:00 rundown and saying that sub 2 has four, needs help, and then fifteen minutes later after 20 more people have entered someone asks a clerk for a rundown on sub 2 and when she says 7 you get read the riot act about lying on the rundown trying to kill the race... :D

[thespaah]

I'm not sure why some of that information needs to be kept under wraps.

Track Conditions. I'll admit, I don't know what the secret part of this should be. The first thing that strikes me is that if it is something like moisture or track depth in various parts of the track, why shouldn't that be public? I guess I'm not seeing what the sensitive insider information could be.

Health and Injuries of race horses. Same thing as above. Why should the public not know which horses are injured, or for that matter which drugs the horse is taking?

Which horses don't have jockeys named. Another one I don't get. Why shouldn't agents know that? The only down side I can see is that they might bother trainers excessively.

Did they say what happened to the guy who sold him access?
I agree. i'd love to have that information.
Playing devil's advocate for a moment.
Suppose the information is complex to the point where the general race going/betting public would not understand it or know how to apply it. And in that same vein, only sharp and higher volume players could use the information in an effective manner.
Should the public find out this, it could cause complaints and cries of "insider information"....Or more simply put, in the hands of an astute bettor, such information could render them a huge advantage over the regular players.

[thespaah]

That is SO NOT true.....

They get a zero $ fine :lol:
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
YOU sir, are not a well man.... :lol:

[mountainman]

You mean you don't enjoy giving a 9:00 rundown and saying that sub 2 has four, needs help, and then fifteen minutes later after 20 more people have entered someone asks a clerk for a rundown on sub 2 and when she says 7 you get read the riot act about lying on the rundown trying to kill the race... :D

Fish swim, thunder rumbles, fat guys waddle, and horsemen bitch. Constantly, incessantly, and endlessly. A thing does what its basic nature dictates. That's the central truth of the backside. It's like the dull buzz of a huge swarm of bees, or the relentless din of a dog kennel next door. You block it out or it consumes you. And you keep right on doing what is best for the racing program.

In fact, if you AREN'T pissing SOMEBODY off in my line of work (both jobs), I can GUARANTEE you aren't getting it done.

Tx for letting me rant, jhb, you will get this completely. To others, it might sound cynical.

[Rise Over Run]

does anyone know who this agent represented?

He was representing Manny Franco when the charges were brought in Jan 2016.

[upthecreek]

He was representing Manny Franco when the charges were brought in Jan 2016.
The investigation actually started in April of 2015

[Racetrack Playa]

April'2015, Security agents at Aqueduct escorted two jockeys' agents and a New York Racing Association official off the track grounds on Wednesday, according to a report in the Daily Racing Form.

http://www.drf.com/news/nyra-official-two-jockeys-agents-barred-nyra-tracks



J Ortiz, E Castro , M Franco

[mistergee]

is that the ex jock Mike Gonzalez?

[Racetrack Playa]

is that the ex jock Mike Gonzalez?Yup, I think so. When was he active as a Jockey?

[affirmedny]

Yup, I think so. When was he active as a Jockey?

late 70's until 1999

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=J&eID=748

[airford1]

I think that the information he got should of been PUBLIC to start with and there are bigger fish to fry like trainers racing horse they suspect of bad fitness and not giving them the time off needed to recover. Horse racing is on a free fall.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I think that the information he got should of been PUBLIC to start with and there are bigger fish to fry like trainers racing horse they suspect of bad fitness and not giving them the time off needed to recover. Horse racing is on a free fall.
Why do you think this information should be public?

[airford1]

Agents keep a data base for the horses and races based on their knowledge and that was what InCompass was except for the entries.
Track Condition. Should be general knowledge.
Thoroughbred Stats. General knowledge
Horse health and injury, Vets list and this should be general knowledge
Horses availability , should not be a secret.
I just don't see a big deal. A good agent will know most of this information and this guy found a way to get it from the horses mouth so to speak.
None of this is a big deal. Now information about a horse that can't run to past performance and the Vet is so stupid that they don't see it , well thats what we want to know.
District Attorney Brown said that, according to the charges, the New York Racing Association maintains a computer system/database called InCompass which stores racetrack-related data, such as track conditions, thoroughbred statistics, thoroughbred health and injuries, thoroughbred availability and other restricted information. Access to the InCompass system is limited to only certain NYRA employees.
What's the big deal.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
What's the big deal.

Even if you take the opinion that he got absolutely zero valuable information, there is the very real problem of a legitimate data breach. This is all password protected information that is to be accessed only by authorized users. In 2017, I don't think you can really go too heavy punishing this sort of thing. We all talk about the importance of customers having faith in the security of various industry systems, well, I think it is entirely reasonable to come down with the weight of the gods on someone that goes out of his way to undermine that faith more than it is already. Especially if he got nothing out of it. It kind of implies that insiders think that the risk is well worth the reward of nothing. As in, what risk?

[mountainman]

Even if you take the opinion that he got absolutely zero valuable information, there is the very real problem of a legitimate data breach. This is all password protected information that is to be accessed only by authorized users. In 2017, I don't think you can really go too heavy punishing this sort of thing. We all talk about the importance of customers having faith in the security of various industry systems, well, I think it is entirely reasonable to come down with the weight of the gods on someone that goes out of his way to undermine that faith more than it is already. Especially if he got nothing out of it. It kind of implies that insiders think that the risk is well worth the reward of nothing. As in, what risk?

I don't think many of these posters actually understand the system's purpose or how the entry process works.

"The public has a right to all info" might be a politically correct mantra, but just isn't relevant in this instance. In fact, the whole point of punishing these transgressions is that certain info MUST be proprietary and NObody has a right to know. That's what keeps things fair and the playing field level.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I don't think many of these posters actually understand the system's purpose or how the entry process works.

"The public has a right to all info" might be a politically correct mantra, but just isn't relevant in this instance. In fact, the whole point of punishing these transgressions is that certain info MUST be proprietary and NObody has a right to know. That's what keeps things fair and the playing field level.

One thing I've been meaning to ask you on this topic and keep forgetting to is if InCompass still allows you to print reports of pretty much single thing that is mentioned EXCEPT the rundown screen?

I mean, if a guy thought he was being helped by knowing the track condition report, or vet report, or any other report... it would have been whole lot easier and less troublesome to ask the guy to just print the report. But avoiding that to log directly in... yeah, I gots to think he was only really interested in the rundown.

[airford1]

I think we are splitting hairs . The sport has bigger fish to fry.