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ronestes
01-21-2017, 09:25 AM
with the upcoming release of Pizzolla's ValueCapper program, is any one selling their Black Magic software.

JimG
01-21-2017, 11:20 AM
Hi Ron. When is it being released? Also, you did not happen to play APBA back in the day, did you?

Jim

ronestes
01-21-2017, 11:26 AM
Supposed to be released soon, I've played APBA since 1965, you as well. Ron

JimG
01-21-2017, 11:28 AM
Supposed to be released soon, I've played APBA since 1965, you as well. Ron

Was reading an old APBA Journal and ran across your name. Was not sure if it was you. Small world indeed. Be interesting to see what Pizzolla has created but I will not be buying as I rarely play the horses any more.

kingfin66
01-21-2017, 11:35 AM
APBA as in APBA baseball? That would actually be a great thread to run in off topic sports. I used to play Statis Pro.

JimG
01-21-2017, 11:37 AM
APBA as in APBA baseball? That would actually be a great thread to run in off topic sports. I used to play Statis Pro.

Oh yeah. I played Statis-Pro some as well back in the day. Us stat guys started early in life. LOL

Speed Figure
01-21-2017, 02:05 PM
PM me if anyone has it for sale!

Dave Schwartz
01-21-2017, 03:16 PM
Loved APBA. Actually re-purchased the baseball and football games about 6-7 years ago.

First year I played APBA was 1962 (football) and 1963 (baseball).

UltimateBetter
01-21-2017, 03:19 PM
Also looking for it.

johnhannibalsmith
01-21-2017, 05:39 PM
Hey you APBA Strato-players... if you've never seen it or haven't tried it and want to add to your repertoire of baseball simulator:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out-of-the-park-baseball/

I learned to love it a little over a decade ago I guess and even got bold enough to hang with the young fellas and play in some online leagues. It's a little overwhelming at first for someone coming in cold even with a lot of familiarity with the concept, but it is quick to get comfortable with and your ability to customize is almost unlimited. Check it out if you're looking for a newer take.

KingChas
01-22-2017, 12:49 PM
Had APBA baseball. Still have APBA horseracing.
So I know who won the race of the century.
Secret though,can't tell you ....................... :D

Speed Figure
01-30-2017, 05:37 AM
Thanks for starting this thread! I finally got it...:jump:

JimG
01-30-2017, 10:35 AM
Thanks for starting this thread! I finally got it...:jump:

Glad you got it. I should have kept my copy. Price should go up on used copies as the winner of the NHC claimed it was a key to his success at the tournament.

ReplayRandall
01-30-2017, 12:33 PM
Glad you got it. I should have kept my copy. Price should go up on used copies as the winner of the NHC claimed it was a key to his success at the tournament.

It's interesting that John O'Neil, who won the NHC two years ago, also uses Black Magic. However, he qualified for this year's NHC and didn't cash, yet the winner Ray Arsenault uses the same program and wins it all. It just goes to show you that no matter what data, program or tools you use, it's how you interpret the data in that specific time period....

Appy
01-30-2017, 11:22 PM
Good take and I agree Replay. But I do believe some programs are better than others.

pandy
01-31-2017, 12:40 AM
It's interesting that John O'Neil, who won the NHC two years ago, also uses Black Magic. However, he qualified for this year's NHC and didn't cash, yet the winner Ray Arsenault uses the same program and wins it all. It just goes to show you that no matter what data, program or tools you use, it's how you interpret the data in that specific time period....


So true.

AltonKelsey
01-31-2017, 05:25 PM
just eyeballing the software, there's a ton of info. so like any blast of data, it's in the eye of the beholder.

if there's a 'black box' aspect to it that mints money, it would have been arbed away by now.

NorCalGreg
01-31-2017, 06:03 PM
My guess is Mr Arsenault would have done well in the tourney even if contestants would have only been allowed access to the Racing Form.

AltonKelsey
01-31-2017, 07:01 PM
Maybe. But you're only as good as your tools. It's possible he uses some data out of that software that helps him nail live ones.

Take the sheets away from a sheet player and what do you have?

NorCalGreg
01-31-2017, 07:09 PM
Maybe. But you're only as good as your tools. It's possible he uses some data out of that software that helps him nail live ones.

Take the sheets away from a sheet player and what do you have?


LOL you have a good point there...that's sheets guy may not have a clue without them.

thaskalos
01-31-2017, 09:02 PM
What does a computer handicapper do in a blackout?

ReplayRandall
01-31-2017, 09:07 PM
What does a computer handicapper do in a blackout?

Quits drinking when he regains consciousness...;)

Speed Figure
01-31-2017, 10:09 PM
What does a computer handicapper do in a blackout?Use my tablet!

Vinnie
01-31-2017, 10:14 PM
You guys are some hot tickets!!!!! :) LOL........

thaskalos
01-31-2017, 11:19 PM
Use my tablet!

Does your tablet come equipped with a font-change option?

Valuist
02-01-2017, 03:05 AM
I think for the big 3 day tournaments, software takes on greater importance. It's one thing to be fully prepared for the opening day and work ahead and get a good head start for day 2. But by day 3, one is often going on fumes.

Speed Figure
02-01-2017, 04:15 AM
Does your tablet come equipped with a font-change option?
I'm sure you can as it comes with full windows 10.

plainolebill
02-02-2017, 03:08 AM
Good luck with the new program Speed, let us know how it works for you.

I had the Master Magician for awhile but could never get the hang of it, I think I'm a better capper today so I might do better with it.

Speed Figure
02-03-2017, 02:18 AM
Good luck with the new program Speed, let us know how it works for you.

I had the Master Magician for awhile but could never get the hang of it, I think I'm a better capper today so I might do better with it.
Thanks a lot Bill! I'm finding out some really interesting things! Was checking the fulcrum pace horse in dirt sprints today. There were 47 sprints and the fulcrum ran ITM in 17 of them, but 19 races did not have a fulcrum horse so in 17 of 28 races the fulcrum ran ITM. Betting to show would have been $34 bet with a return of $60.5 for a 1.78 ROI. I have to say I'm really loving this software!

PICSIX
02-03-2017, 07:40 AM
Thanks a lot Bill! I'm finding out some really interesting things! Was checking the fulcrum pace horse in dirt sprints today. There were 47 sprints and the fulcrum ran ITM in 17 of them, but 19 races did not have a fulcrum horse so in 17 of 28 races the fulcrum ran ITM. Betting to show would have been $34 bet with a return of $60.5 for a 1.78 ROI. I have to say I'm really loving this software!

Fulcrum definition from "Handicapping Magic"; The fulcrum pace is the fastest second call time of all the contestants in the race taken from their last race, provided that the race is competitive and not atypically fast for the horse.

Part of the approach is to eliminate horses that have run poorly against similar fulcrum pace as today's race.

BTW, Handicapping Magic software is less expensive than Black Magic. I know Black Magic does more but I don't know how much more.

PICSIX
02-03-2017, 08:07 AM
Fulcrum definition from "Handicapping Magic"; The fulcrum pace is the fastest second call time of all the contestants in the race taken from their last race, provided that the race is competitive and not atypically fast for the horse.

Part of the approach is to eliminate horses that have run poorly against similar fulcrum pace as today's race.

BTW, Handicapping Magic software is less expensive than Black Magic. I know Black Magic does more but I don't know how much more.

The software title is "The Handicapping Magician"

Speed Figure
02-03-2017, 02:05 PM
Fulcrum definition from "Handicapping Magic"; The fulcrum pace is the fastest second call time of all the contestants in the race taken from their last race, provided that the race is competitive and not atypically fast for the horse.

Part of the approach is to eliminate horses that have run poorly against similar fulcrum pace as today's race.

BTW, Handicapping Magic software is less expensive than Black Magic. I know Black Magic does more but I don't know how much more.It does much more trust me!

cato
02-03-2017, 02:25 PM
I am a big fan of Pizzolla's but TMM is not a program I would recommend except for a couple of suggestions noted below.

TMM was basically developed as a tandem to the book Handicapping Magic and intentionally uses simple numbers that are relatively easily to calculate per the book (although who would want to do them by hand after you have learned how to and how they work? - thus the program). No real track to track adjustments and there are only rough approximations for surface and distance changes at the same track.

Having said that you get some really contrarian numbers and if you have some desire to see how the concepts of Handicapping Magic play out then get the program. Plus it's simple to use etc.

Black Magic (and hopefully soon, ValueCapper) is on a different plane of existence and uses velocity numbers, pace numbers, etc., etc. There is a learning curve but I've seen and used other programs with a much steeper curve. Having said that it is, thankfully, not a black box and requires handicapping and judgment, which means 5 BLAM players may wind up betting on 5 different horses in the same race! :) Hopefully I have the winner...

Best, Frank

cato
02-03-2017, 02:38 PM
So, Mr, Speed - do you have TMM or Black Magic (BLAM) -I thought you had BLAM and if I'm wrong - and for all of those other folks out there who have and like TMM - that's great! It does do some interesting stuff...I used it several years and learned a lot but I was never happy with the numbers and thought it was a step down from his earlier program (name forgoteen at this point); although part of what Michael taught (same thing as Dick Schmidt) is that the numbers just need to be "good enough" - they all have variations and built in error, etc.

Speed Figure
02-03-2017, 03:06 PM
So, Mr, Speed - do you have TMM or Black Magic (BLAM) -I thought you had BLAM and if I'm wrong - and for all of those other folks out there who have and like TMM - that's great! It does do some interesting stuff...I used it several years and learned a lot but I was never happy with the numbers and thought it was a step down from his earlier program (name forgoteen at this point); although part of what Michael taught (same thing as Dick Schmidt) is that the numbers just need to be "good enough" - they all have variations and built in error, etc.Never used BM until now and I really like it!

bruin95
02-03-2017, 03:09 PM
Thanks a lot Bill! I'm finding out some really interesting things! Was checking the fulcrum pace horse in dirt sprints today. There were 47 sprints and the fulcrum ran ITM in 17 of them, but 19 races did not have a fulcrum horse so in 17 of 28 races the fulcrum ran ITM. Betting to show would have been $34 bet with a return of $60.5 for a 1.78 ROI. I have to say I'm really loving this software!

Wouldn't you have bet $56, not $34, if there were 28 races?

Speed Figure
02-03-2017, 03:47 PM
Wouldn't you have bet $56, not $34, if there were 28 races?Your right! just a little profit now.

acorn54
02-03-2017, 08:34 PM
ive used blam and was impressed primarily with the longshots it was able to detect. ive watched mike pizzolla's tapes and he is a real entertaining guy to see operate. to sum up his method, it was to me the longshots from blam hooked up with other horses in exotics that put him way over the top in roi.
hope you get a real kick out of the program speed figure

barn32
02-04-2017, 11:17 AM
Wasn't Michael Pizzola a protege of Jim the Hat Bradshaw?

Tom
02-04-2017, 01:39 PM
No, Sartin.
But Bradshaw did teach him the idea of a fulcrum and the PBS numbers.

Xman2
02-08-2017, 01:01 AM
Hey Speed. Play the fulcrum under in the exacta and you will have plenty of money for other bets. Finishes second a lot. Cha Ching!!

Xman2

JJMartin
02-08-2017, 03:04 AM
Anybody planning on buying the new ValueCapper when it becomes available?

bruin95
02-08-2017, 03:13 AM
Anybody planning on buying the new ValueCapper when it becomes available?

Wouldn't hold my breath on it ever coming out. Have you clicked on the graphic for the software? It says copyright 2015. It's been "coming soon" for nearly two years.

JJMartin
02-08-2017, 03:23 AM
Wouldn't hold my breath on it ever coming out. Have you clicked on the graphic for the software? It says copyright 2015. It's been "coming soon" for nearly two years.
lol I know. I saw a video with Mike P from a few months ago and he said it would be this spring I think.

theotherside
02-15-2017, 12:19 AM
What I like about mike and his organization is when I spent 12 or 13 hundred dollars for the master handicapper program and after a few years he no longer supported it or put out the files for it. It was really great.

cato
02-15-2017, 03:42 PM
I dunno - based on prior posts you never liked the program + they supported it for 16 years which seems acceptable in todays world of programs, advancements, different operating systems etc.

theotherside
02-15-2017, 07:10 PM
16 years? If that was the case, then before I bought it and got my few years out of it I should of been informed that it was being phased out and they will stop supporting it.Whether I liked the program or not has nothing to do with selling me a program for over a thousand dollars that had only a few years of support left.

JJMartin
02-16-2017, 01:26 AM
16 years? If that was the case, then before I bought it and got my few years out of it I should of been informed that it was being phased out and they will stop supporting it.Whether I liked the program or not has nothing to do with selling me a program for over a thousand dollars that had only a few years of support left.

Tell them to give you 50% off the next program.

cato
02-16-2017, 06:46 AM
If anyone bought TMH from the developer a few years before the developer stopped supporting it in 2010, they should be upset - unless they worked something out with the developer. But I don't think that's the case. I think they stopped selling it around 2000 (i need to confirm that) and they started warning people that TMH was going to be phased it out in approx 2008 (a couple of years before they actually did phase it out)

I do know that in 2005 you posted the following:

"i bought the master handicapper way back in the day.i used it for 6 months and the it went in the drawer.so could you please be more specific as to how to get rich with this program.ill take it out now and get it going while i await your reply.thanx"

So I am not following your statements here that you only got a few years out of it and that you were screwed and (still) upset that they stopped supporting it in 2010. It sounds like you only got 6 months out of it :)

I do understand that you did not like the program and feel like you overpaid and I am certainly sympathetic to that as I have paid/overpaid for several prgrams that I thought were worthless (or constant expensive upgrades or different programs such as the Sartin program of the year circus.)

And finally I don't think there was a grand plan to stop supporting TMH but it was similar to other software realities where systems change and at some point the developers and users have to move on (see, e.g., various windows programs).

On one point we agree - I wish TMH was still supported because I thought it was a great program. But it came out in the mid 90s and I don't expect to be able to use all programs forever. So I've moved on.

theotherside
02-16-2017, 11:39 AM
Ok Cato lets keep this going
My gripe is this, I bought the program paid a lot for it and 4 or 5 years later Pizzola no longer sells the files to support it as he was unrolling a new program,he also did it with the essential handicapper as well, you buy the program and after a few years he no longer sells the files, so get the new program you will be fine.If he you sell the software how do you stop selling the files for it? He wants all the money! He makes and sells the data file you need and decides the shelve life for you! liking or not liking the program is not a factor as a handicapper it is not uncommon to use a program then put it away for what ever reason then revisit it at a later date when you decide to retry it, so my point is when you spend A lot of money on a program you would not expect to hear we no longer support or sell the files you need to use the software we sold you. I think he stopped supporting it well before 2010 by the way.

cato
02-16-2017, 05:00 PM
Lets not keep it going! Last post for me on this.

I jumped in because my experiences with Pizzolla, whether support, returns, credits, questions, etc., have all been reasonable and positive and I know a lot of other people who have had similar positive experiences. So I've felt most of the complaints are unfair and I had some strange compulsion to give the "other side of the story". But this has cured me!

We've had different experiences and I'll leave it at that.

Best, Frank

cj
02-17-2017, 11:41 AM
Ok Cato lets keep this going
My gripe is this, I bought the program paid a lot for it and 4 or 5 years later Pizzola no longer sells the files to support it as he was unrolling a new program,he also did it with the essential handicapper as well, you buy the program and after a few years he no longer sells the files, so get the new program you will be fine.If he you sell the software how do you stop selling the files for it? He wants all the money! He makes and sells the data file you need and decides the shelve life for you! liking or not liking the program is not a factor as a handicapper it is not uncommon to use a program then put it away for what ever reason then revisit it at a later date when you decide to retry it, so my point is when you spend A lot of money on a program you would not expect to hear we no longer support or sell the files you need to use the software we sold you. I think he stopped supporting it well before 2010 by the way.

Just a suggestion. If you buy data files from someone else...DRF, BRIS, HDW, Equibase, etc., you could probably get a programmer to write you a program that could convert them to the same format as what you need for the program pretty easily. It would be a one time payment and then your software would still work.

francua
02-17-2017, 12:01 PM
Been lurking on these forums for a bit of time but never actually posted but have been looking for Black Magic for quite a bit of time and haven't had any luck in finding someone. If anyone else is selling it I am very interested in purchasing. Thanks

Frank

MPRanger
02-19-2017, 12:48 PM
When I bought Black Magic i got way more than I was expecting.

It's more than just a program. As a program it does what it does nicely. Makes ratings instantly on every line in the PP's. Portfolios find the kind of races I like to play. The advantages go on and on.

But more, it's like a correspondence course with Michael Pizzola teaching you how a pro plays the game. This is an understated benefit. If I never used Black Magic again, I'm a far better horse player than I ever was before learning from him.

If I have a question about anything, I can send him an email and he'll answer it thoughtfully. I can't say enough good about Michael Pizzola and the way he treats his customers.

chuckster1968
03-05-2017, 11:53 PM
looking to buy dongle if anyone selling?

jhilden
03-08-2017, 07:43 AM
Mike P has been saying Black Magic 2.0 is almost done, just need to add and clean up a few things for about 3 years now. Any word on what is going on with it?

Speed Figure
03-08-2017, 08:21 AM
Mike P has been saying Black Magic 2.0 is almost done, just need to add and clean up a few things for about 3 years now. Any word on what is going on with it?
He has several videos on the wizards forum showing lots of screen shots between black magic and the new value capper. Sounds like it should come before the derby.

jhilden
03-08-2017, 10:30 AM
He has several videos on the wizards forum showing lots of screen shots between black magic and the new value capper. Sounds like it should come before the derby.


I think in March/April of 2015 he was using a working version of VC an said it should be ready by the Derby.

When did he stop selling BM?

Just curious of the chronic 'Coming Soon"

chuckster1968
03-08-2017, 02:00 PM
wow nobody selling original dongle..and he is only selling new one at a limited edition...?? Really confusing.. no rants at all this year..

Speed Figure
03-08-2017, 06:32 PM
wow nobody selling original dongle..and he is only selling new one at a limited edition...?? Really confusing.. no rants at all this year..
Best thing to do is to email them and be put on the list!

Houndog
03-11-2017, 02:49 AM
I would expect him to introduce BLM 2.0 in one of his rants. Perhaps the Kentucky Derby video that he puts out.

Houndog
04-07-2017, 06:08 PM
Michael Pizzolla has just released a rant for this Saturday's Bluegrass and Wood Memorial. He did not cover the SA Derby because not being able to get the entries since he made his youtube video on Thursday. He indicates version 2.0 will be coming soon along with a forthcoming rant.

I am guessing he may announce the release with the Kentucky Derby rant.

chuckster1968
05-05-2017, 01:45 PM
Well ValueCapper 2.0 I imagine Michael maybe making more dongles etc. than he expected. I doubt I will be able to afford the new one as it will probably be gobbled up fast. If anyone is actually interested in selling the original dongle ie. his 1.0 version.. ? Let me know, I have had others contact me about it and then they never return the message. I am interested. Please let me know.

alvarez1
05-16-2017, 07:24 PM
i have the software and the and the disk's that came with the program. i did'nt get to use it as much i wanted too, but it is a very fine program. i'm 74 years old and i want to sell it while i still can, i'm asking 500.00 the price is firm, i paid 1500.00 for it,and it's worth every penny of it. if i was 10 years younger, i would'nt sell it, but i'm going to start selling all of my programs, i have little time to do it.i also worked in chemicals for over 40 years and it's taken it's toll on me, but till then i'm still trying fullfill my dream and hit one more jackpot so that my family can have a nice house as a lasting gift from me. and i believe i can do it. thank you and i wish you and everyone else good luck. alvarez1

Againstthebias
05-22-2017, 09:50 PM
Alverez1 do you still have the program? I'm interested if you still have it.

chuckster1968
05-23-2017, 09:16 AM
is that the dongle version 1.0

chuckster1968
05-25-2017, 11:41 AM
I would be very interested in purchasing????

Thebart
05-31-2017, 03:47 AM
I can't believe Pizzolla, who I really respect, has had "coming soon" on the Black Magic Handicapper 2.0 page of his website for going on two years. What's the over/under on what this is likely to cost? I'm thinking $1995.

Mr.Chi
05-31-2017, 11:58 AM
I'm beginning to doubt it will ever be released.

bruin95
05-31-2017, 10:05 PM
I can't believe Pizzolla, who I really respect, has had "coming soon" on the Black Magic Handicapper 2.0 page of his website for going on two years. What's the over/under on what this is likely to cost? I'm thinking $1995.

More like $0.00. It's pretty much vaporware at this point.

ReplayRandall
05-31-2017, 10:18 PM
This thread really cracks me up...:pound::faint::pound:...You all are so very interested in when the next version of BM is coming out, yet the majority of you post NOTHING else on PA. Hmmm....Could it be that you all have some kind of vested interest in keeping this "item" alive in the reader's minds, or do you think everyone here at PA are just a bunch of rubes?...Give it a rest already, enough..:rip:

Mr.Chi
05-31-2017, 10:57 PM
Perhaps those of us who have few posts just don't have any incentive to post more often because of all the venom and negativity thrown around here.

Go ahead and flame away!

ReplayRandall
05-31-2017, 11:01 PM
Perhaps those of us who have few posts just don't have any incentive to post more often because of all the venom and negativity thrown around here.

Go ahead and flame away!

Can't....you've only got just 2 posts, and I've been instructed to take it easy on rookies like you..:popcorn:

NorCalGreg
05-31-2017, 11:28 PM
Perhaps those of us who have few posts just don't have any incentive to post more often because of all the venom and negativity thrown around here.

Go ahead and flame away!

There are a couple horse-racing related forums with no venom, no negativity, no flaming allowed.

They also don't have any members.

That's the reason you Pizzola groupies and dongle-seekers are here.

Get lost if you don't care for the conversation--you won't be missed.

-NCG

Handiman
06-01-2017, 01:24 AM
I got in big trouble once showing a girl my Dongle....:lol:

Appy
06-01-2017, 11:48 PM
There are a couple horse-racing related forums with no venom, no negativity, no flaming allowed.

They also don't have any members.

That's the reason you Pizzola groupies and dongle-seekers are here.

Get lost if you don't care for the conversation--you won't be missed.

-NCG

I've enjoyed reading about your product, and have seen you make a lot of good, fun, enjoyable posts NCG. This one doesn't qualify.

NorCalGreg
06-02-2017, 02:29 PM
I've enjoyed reading about your product, and have seen you make a lot of good, fun, enjoyable posts NCG. This one doesn't qualify.

He's posted twice about a software program....then a blanket post about the quality of the content here.

After which he invited said posters to take their best shot.

I thought I took him down a notch quite well, Appy.

Mr.Chi
06-02-2017, 03:24 PM
Thanks for proving my point for me.

ReplayRandall
06-02-2017, 03:43 PM
Thanks for proving my point for me.
What??....You think you got the best of us here, Mr. Chi....Think again..:rip:

NorCalGreg
06-02-2017, 03:52 PM
Thanks for proving my point for me.

You're welcome :cool:

Good luck finding your dongle.