Is 0bama going to start a war with Russia?

[davew]

Some people are wondering if the anointed one will start a war with Russia before we leaves. The 17 intelligence agencies have been making noise about Russia swaying elections away from Clinton (I still don't buy it completely - they are smart enough not to leave tracks, and if there are tracks, they were surely left by someone else - like DHS). They have been fortifying NATO forces in eastern Europe. They have been accusing Syria/Russia of doing the things we are doing.....

[Greyfox]

In this nuclear age, war with Russia would be madness.
It could lead to the end of civilization, as we know it, if not the end of mankind.
Amassing American troops in Poland is just as much a message that Obama is sending to Trump as it is to Putin. It is a silly move.

[FantasticDan]

I think it's more likely that Obama, after leaving office, will overthrow Putin using a vast Kenyan and African army (his real people). And then, since he has always hated America, he'll attack the US as the new Russian Tsar.

Putin will flee to the US, and Trump will force Pence to resign. Putin will then be installed in a newly created position, the Tremendous and Super Classy Minister of Winners.

The US forces will fall quickly tho, since instead of using modern weaponry, all our troops will ride into battle shirtless and via horseback.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Some people are wondering if the anointed one will start a war with Russia before we leaves. The 17 intelligence agencies have been making noise about Russia swaying elections away from Clinton (I still don't buy it completely - they are smart enough not to leave tracks, and if there are tracks, they were surely left by someone else - like DHS). They have been fortifying NATO forces in eastern Europe. They have been accusing Syria/Russia of doing the things we are doing.....
When you say some people, I'm not picturing a group of PhD's at a foreign policy think tank.

[davew]

I think it's more likely that Obama, after leaving office, will overthrow Putin using a vast Kenyan and African army (his real people). And then, since he has always hated America, he'll attack the US as the new Russian Tsar.

Putin will flee to the US, and Trump will force Pence to resign. Putin will then be installed in a newly created position, the Tremendous and Super Classy Minister of Winners.

The US forces will fall quickly tho, since instead of using modern weaponry, all our troops will ride into battle shirtless and via horseback.

I am not sure if 0bama has made Daesh powerful enough to beat Syria and Putin. Maybe if he started leading them there, instead of from a golf course in the USA, they will be more successful at keeping their winnings. I think he has made Iran almost as powerful and rich as Russia is so it would just be easier for him to conquer Africa and Middle East and leave Russia alone. He could slip in the back door tunnel and take all of Israel's US supplied weapons.

But then again that would seem like work, when what he really loves is campaigning, saying how great he is, and playing golf. Declaring martial law would be a start (before switching to Sharia law), to become the first US lifelong dictator.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I think it's more likely that Obama, after leaving office, will overthrow Putin using a vast Kenyan and African army (his real people). And then, since he has always hated America, he'll attack the US as the new Russian Tsar.

Putin will flee to the US, and Trump will force Pence to resign. Putin will then be installed in a newly created position, the Tremendous and Super Classy Minister of Winners.

The US forces will fall quickly tho, since instead of using modern weaponry, all our troops will ride into battle shirtless and via horseback.

Impossible.

That would mean Obama would actually have to work and do something of substance.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Impossible.

That would mean Obama would actually have to work and do something of substance.

Good point. He's a slacker, and one who barely does what he's told to do....

[chadk66]

I don't think I'd worry about what Trump is going to start with Russia. I'd be more worried about whether Russia will turn the middle east to glass.

[Tom]

Trump is not the one poking the bear.
That is the democrats - accusing Russia of acts with no verifiable evidence.

They just cannot accept that they lost.
They have to have an excuse.

Here are three good ones.....

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Trump is not the one poking the bear.
That is the democrats - accusing Russia of acts with no verifiable evidence.

They just cannot accept that they lost.
They have to have an excuse.

Here are three good ones.....
Here's an idea. If Russia didn't do it, maybe they can shove it up our ass and restore their good name at the same time by exposing who really did it.

Or they could take one out of OJ's book: If I Did It: Confessions of a Killer

[Tom]

If we have not one, but 13 intelligence farms saying it happened, WHERE IS THE PROOF?

Asking a dem for proof seems to be unreasonable.
and remember, they did not hack ANY ballots, all they did, if they did it, was reveal what the dems did in reality.

If you have a problem, I suggest you ask the DNC to explain themselves.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

If we have not one, but 13 intelligence farms saying it happened, WHERE IS THE PROOF?

Asking a dem for proof seems to be unreasonable.
and remember, they did not hack ANY ballots, all they did, if they did it, was reveal what the dems did in reality.

If you have a problem, I suggest you ask the DNC to explain themselves.
You could always take a few minutes out of your busy day bashing Democrats and read the reports. Background to “Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections”: The Analytic Process and Cyber Incident Attribution

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

It provides a detailed analysis on what the Russians did.

You remind me of the guy who closes all his blinds and shades, sits in the middle of his living room and then wonders where the hell the sun went.

[Clocker]

You remind me of the guy who closes all his blinds and shades, sits in the middle of his living room and then wonders where the hell the sun went.

That happens to me a lot too. Usually late in the evening, after a few beers.

Everything is generally all better in the morning.

Except here, where a lot of people never see the light. :D

[classhandicapper]

I don't doubt that the Russians (and Chinese, Israelis, Japanese, Europeans etc...) spy on and hack the US. I don't doubt that all of them try to influence US politics (just look at the Clinton foundation and foreign lobbyist). What I am less certain of is who gave the DNC and Podesta emails to wikileaks. Assange still says it was not Russia. It could have been any of them, including disgruntled democrats that were pissed off about how Sanders got screwed or even members of US intelligence that did not want Clinton to win. People tend to think of US intelligence as some monolithic organization working towards the same goal. But there are political forces within the CIA, FBI, NSA etc... also. They fight for power also.

Even though I read a lot of the damaging emails from wikileaks, I don't think they had a huge impact. I think the Comely investigation had a more significant impact because the timing was right before the election and that's when the numbers started shifting. That was US intelligence, not Russia.

Finally, what this comes down to is that the democrats are pissed off they got caught because it hurt them and now they are using it as an excuse. I'm not in favor of hacking, but I AM in favor of weeding out corruption. So I'm glad whoever did hack them helped inform me.

[boxcar]

Here's an idea. If Russia didn't do it, maybe they can shove it up our ass and restore their good name at the same time by exposing who really did it.



Talk about a huge disconnect in logic! Why is the onus on the Russians to prove anything! :bang: :bang: It's the Dems who have besmirched their name in the first place -- without a shred of evidence.

[woodtoo]

I don't doubt that the Russians (and Chinese, Israelis, Japanese, Europeans etc...) spy on and hack the US. I don't doubt that all of them try to influence US politics (just look at the Clinton foundation and foreign lobbyist). What I am less certain of is who gave the DNC and Podesta emails to wikileaks. Assange still says it was not Russia. It could have been any of them, including disgruntled democrats that were pissed off about how Sanders got screwed or even members of US intelligence that did not want Clinton to win. People tend to think of US intelligence as some monolithic organization working towards the same goal. But there are political forces within the CIA, FBI, NSA etc... also. They fight for power also.

Even though I read a lot of the damaging emails from wikileaks, I don't think they had a huge impact. I think the Comely investigation had a more significant impact because the timing was right before the election and that's when the numbers started shifting. That was US intelligence, not Russia.

Finally, what this comes down to is that the democrats are pissed off they got caught because it hurt them and now they are using it as an excuse. I'm not in favor of hacking, but I AM in favor of weeding out corruption. So I'm glad whoever did hack them helped inform me.
Yes and yes again. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

You could always take a few minutes out of your busy day bashing Democrats and read the reports. Background to “Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent US Elections”: The Analytic Process and Cyber Incident Attribution

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

It provides a detailed analysis on what the Russians did.

Too busy reading about what we know the DNC actually did.
Had they NOT done it, there would have been no problem.

We DO know, for a fact, Hillary sent classified material to a person without clearance to rad them and they were hacked by Russia and China.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Too busy reading about what we know the DNC actually did.
Had they NOT done it, there would have been no problem.

We DO know, for a fact, Hillary sent classified material to a person without clearance to rad them and they were hacked by Russia and China.
Step 1: Pull something completely untrue out of the air, like we have no proof of Russian interference in the election.

Step 2: Blame Democrats for what the Russians did. Don't worry, it doesn't have to make sense.

Step 3: Once you are caught, divert your ineptitude to something else, like the DNC emails for which no-one has been indicted. Just make sure we don't talk about the crime the Russians committed. You know, the one we documented.

Step 4: Continue to defend Russians no matter how much evidence piles up about their involvement

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Finally, what this comes down to is that the democrats are pissed off they got caught because it hurt them and now they are using it as an excuse. I'm not in favor of hacking, but I AM in favor of weeding out corruption. So I'm glad whoever did hack them helped inform me.
I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but while I found the DNC hacks reprehensible, that was not the big deal and I'm not sure I've run into anyone who blames the emails for Hillary's loss. I agree. Comey's press conferences and the letters he sent illegally to Congress were far more likely the culprits.

But don't mistake being pissed off about the Russian involvement as some sour grapes about the election. I sort of see the DNC hacking as some guy getting pictures of his wife cheating on him and posting them on the internet. Embarrassing, good fodder for the gossip columns, but in the end only a crime in places governed by Sharia Law. Just from my personal perspective, the DNC hacking was far more Keystone Cops than James Bond. And now you know why you better have a strong stomach if you want to see sausage being made.

No, I'm pissed off because of all the types of interference by foreign governments, direct interference in an election is way over the line.

[davew]

Too busy reading about what we know the DNC employees actually wrote in their emails.

We DO know, for a fact, Hillary sent classified material to a person without clearance to read them. They were hacked by Guccifer, who enjoyed reading them in his spare time.


Keep repeating the stuff over and over. Then it becomes well reported fact. (from the Dem and their media playbook)


PS Halvs, does it piss you off when our government interferes with other governments democratic process?

[rastajenk]

Counting primaries, Mrs. Clinton has lost far more elections than she has ever won. How many of those had Russian interference?

I worked a poll on Nov 8 and watched the people in that precinct, and the three others in the same location, vote for Trump by a 5-1 margin. How many of those were Clinton votes flipped by the Ruskies? I'd be tempted to guess, not a single one.

Face it, she was a terrible candidate, and anything that tries to move her off that position is just a weak-ass attempt to de-legitimize a legitimate winner.

[ElKabong]

Counting primaries, Mrs. Clinton has lost far more elections than she has ever won. How many of those had Russian interference?

I worked a poll on Nov 8 and watched the people in that precinct, and the three others in the same location, vote for Trump by a 5-1 margin. How many of those were Clinton votes flipped by the Ruskies? I'd be tempted to guess, not a single one.

Face it, she was a terrible candidate, and anything that tries to move her off that position is just a weak-ass attempt to de-legitimize a legitimate winner.

Awesome post

Before windbag liberals whine about Russian intervention or any such nonsense , they should read the above post before doing so. It would save them both time and embarrassment

[Tom]

Step 1: Pull something completely untrue out of the air, like we have no proof of Russian interference in the election. We do not.

Step 2: Blame Democrats for what the Russians did. Don't worry, it doesn't have to make sense. It is only an issue because what they did was true - no lies were released.
Step 3: Once you are caught, divert your ineptitude to something else, like the DNC emails for which no-one has been indicted. Just make sure we don't talk about the crime the Russians committed. You know, the one we documented.
No proof has been documented and released to the public so far.

Step 4: Continue to defend Russians no matter how much evidence piles up about their involvement I thank them fore revealing the TRUTH about our worthless scumbag DNC/

You are pretty much in denial.
Try drugs.

[Clocker]

Before windbag liberals whine about Russian intervention or any such nonsense , they should read the above post before doing so. It would save them both time and embarrassment

If Letterman still had his show, he could do the Top Ten DNC Excuses for Hillary losing.

In no particular order, here are some Podesta and friends have actually used:

Hackers

Racism

Sexism

Media bias

Basket of deplorables

Comey and the FBI

False news

Voter fraud

ObamaCare

Electoral College

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Keep repeating the stuff over and over. Then it becomes well reported fact. (from the Dem and their media playbook)


PS Halvs, does it piss you off when our government interferes with other governments democratic process?
Piss me off. Not the right phrase. I think some of the stuff we've done (United Fruit, Shah of Iran) has been downright stupid. I think the games that espionage agencies play are also generally what should be one of the last tools out of the toolbox.

If you attack our electrical grid just to mess with us, yeah that pisses me off. If you mess with an election, and that includes us, in the name of trying to push a friendly face to be in charge, despite what the people of that country want, yeah, I don't agree with that for two reasons. One, it often backfires (see Iran or Panama) and two, once you open that Pandora's Box, no telling how much damage you do before everything blows up. On the other hand, if you insert the Stuxnet into Iranian nuclear software, I'm not so sure I have an issue with that.

I think it is reasonable to look at each situation and make a decision based on that particular situation. If you really love America, that doesn't mean you say it is right every time. It means you support America even when you believe what they did was wrong. Sort of like your kids.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

You are pretty much in denial.
Try drugs.
Denial? You should take your comedy show on the road, because what you said is one (not so funny) joke. Unbelievable.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Counting primaries, Mrs. Clinton has lost far more elections than she has ever won. How many of those had Russian interference?

I worked a poll on Nov 8 and watched the people in that precinct, and the three others in the same location, vote for Trump by a 5-1 margin. How many of those were Clinton votes flipped by the Ruskies? I'd be tempted to guess, not a single one.

Face it, she was a terrible candidate, and anything that tries to move her off that position is just a weak-ass attempt to de-legitimize a legitimate winner.
I could use smaller words, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't help.

Let's start with the facts. Hillary ran for public office four times. She won two Senate elections, she lost a primary to Obama and an election to Trump. So losing "far more elections" means she actually won one more election than she lost, and even if you want to throw the primary in there (which wasn't an election since only registered Democrats voted) she's still two up, two down. At least one had Russian interference.

You'd be tempted to guess, and that's exactly what you would be doing. None of us knows how many people made up their minds based on hacking or fake stories planted by Russian operatives. I certainly don't know, and I don't even have a decent guess. Somewhere between one and ten million I'd guess.

She was a terrible candidate. I'm just not sure I can say there are a lot of people in my circles who believe differently. I've said repeatedly, the election is over, Trump won, and we go forward from there. This is not sour grapes. But if that means we can't be pissed off at what the Russians did, you just stay in your bubble and believe it isn't about what it really is about.

[Nitro]

The Obamaination so-called administration had 8 long years to do something about IT security issues. The hackers (who ever they were) broke into numerous U.S. agencies. And what did our illustrious president do? Absolutely Nothing!

Their pointing to the Russians now has about the same impact as when they ALL lied to the American people about a movie causing the Bengasi debacle. They simply continue to try to and cover up their obvious failures and inept ability to handle anything that’s significantly important.

They leave a marked legacy of total incompetence!
The departure of these imbeciles can’t happen soon enough!

[woodtoo]

Only 5 more sleeps till the bigly day. ;)

[CincyHorseplayer]

The Obamaination so-called administration had 8 long years to do something about IT security issues. The hackers (who ever they were) broke into numerous U.S. agencies. And what did our illustrious president do? Absolutely Nothing!

Their pointing to the Russians now has about the same impact as when they ALL lied to the American people about a movie causing the Bengasi debacle. They simply continue to try to and cover up their obvious failures and inept ability to handle anything that’s significantly important.

They leave a marked legacy of total incompetence!
The departure of these imbeciles can’t happen soon enough!

Exactly. This deep and earnest concern at this point in time is feigned meaningfulness. It is so transparent it is laughable! Great post.

[rastajenk]

You'd be tempted to guess, and that's exactly what you would be doing. None of us knows how many people made up their minds based on hacking or fake stories planted by Russian operatives. I certainly don't know, and I don't even have a decent guess. Somewhere between one and ten million I'd guess.
I'm still going with the one. Just one. :D

When I say she's a loser, I'm counting all the primaries individually. Whenever she was on the ballot against someone else, she lost more often than she won. And sometimes required "rigged elections" to win when she did. Oh the irony.

[woodtoo]

The Obamaination so-called administration had 8 long years to do something about IT security issues. The hackers (who ever they were) broke into numerous U.S. agencies. And what did our illustrious president do? Absolutely Nothing!

Their pointing to the Russians now has about the same impact as when they ALL lied to the American people about a movie causing the Bengasi debacle. They simply continue to try to and cover up their obvious failures and inept ability to handle anything that’s significantly important.

They leave a marked legacy of total incompetence!
The departure of these imbeciles can’t happen soon enough!
4 more sleeps and their out, out, out!!
The Russians are so on to their pissant little blame game.
Trump can clean the swamp, join forces with Putin and finally kick some...
kick ISIS ass wherever it infests. The times of great jubilation will be upon us! :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:

[elysiantraveller]

4 more sleeps and their out, out, out!!
The Russians are so on to their pissant little blame game.
Trump can clean the swamp, join forces with Putin and finally kick some...
kick ISIS ass wherever it infests. The times of great jubilation will be upon us! :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:

Hilarious...

You actually think this is how the world works...? :lol:

Who fills the resultant power vacuum?

[OntheRail]

Hilarious...

You actually think this is how the world works...? :lol:

Who fills the resultant power vacuum?

Oh so it is far better in your eyes to do nothing... we been basically doing that for 8 yrs. And with out external pressure ISIS has ballooned.

How bout we take a hint from the Old Empire and start planting flags again. Maybe turn it into a penal colony or a Hollywood East for all the snowflakes that can't deal with TRUMP's WIN :faint:.

:lol:

[HalvOnHorseracing]

When I say she's a loser, I'm counting all the primaries individually. Whenever she was on the ballot against someone else, she lost more often than she won. And sometimes required "rigged elections" to win when she did. Oh the irony.
That sounds like counting someone as a failure as a hitter because he took two strikes before getting a hit. In the end your batting average is only the number of hits divided by the number of official at bats. Four elections, two wins, one loss, one DNF. Batting average .500

[Clocker]

Four elections, two wins,

Exhibition games against the JV team. :lol:

[Tom]

Dang it, Clocker, you beast me to it! :lol::lol:

[Grits]

4 more sleeps and their out, out, out!!
The Russians are so on to their pissant little blame game.
Trump can clean the swamp, join forces with Putin and finally kick some...
kick ISIS ass wherever it infests. The times of great jubilation will be upon us! :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:

Wood, there's a centuries old Chinese compilation of theories. It's been in book form for a number of years, only 13 chapters, titled The Art Of War. It's been widely read by military leaders, world leaders, and coaches alike. Probably the most important words in it?

Know your enemy.

Our leaders, past, present, and the one coming in Friday? Didn't and still don't. He is and has been the greatest threat to our democracy as well as that of all nations. It continues to get worse every year, every election. Our level of under estimation, of doubt, of being suckered goes back more than 18 years to when Putin's rise began.

If they've not.. every member of every branch of our government should be made to read this, very slowly, so it sinks in. (There are many pages that you can read, here.)

https://www.amazon.com/Winter-Coming-Vladimir-Enemies-Stopped

[elysiantraveller]

Oh so it is far better in your eyes to do nothing... we been basically doing that for 8 yrs. And with out external pressure ISIS has ballooned.

How bout we take a hint from the Old Empire and start planting flags again. Maybe turn it into a penal colony or a Hollywood East for all the snowflakes that can't deal with TRUMP's WIN :faint:.

:lol:

Anyone who thinks we are doing nothing has their head in the sand.

Secondly, Russia supports Assad, Hamas, and Iran...

We support the Rebels, the Sunnis, and Israel...

So we "team up" with Russia and by extension "team up" with Assad, Iran, and Hamas...? :cool:

While we're at it lets plant those flags as I'm sure Russia will be A-Okay with our new Empire-Building strategy.

The gross over-simplification of the world on this board is astounding at times.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Exhibition games against the JV team. :lol:
You know, when the Steelers beat the Browns, it looked the same in the win column as when they beat the Chiefs.

[woodtoo]

Wood, there's a centuries old Chinese compilation of theories. It's been in book form for a number of years, only 13 chapters, titled The Art Of War. It's been widely read by military leaders, world leaders, and coaches alike. Probably the most important words in it?

Know your enemy.

Our leaders, past, present, and the one coming in Friday? Didn't and still don't. He is and has been the greatest threat to our democracy as well as that of all nations. It continues to get worse every year, every election. Our level of under estimation, of doubt, of being suckered goes back more than 18 years to when Putin's rise began.

If they've not.. every member of every branch of our government should be made to read this, very slowly, so it sinks in. (There are many pages that you can read, here.)

https://www.amazon.com/Winter-Coming-Vladimir-Enemies-Stopped
Thanks I'll check my library first, was a big book reader a few years ago
too much internet. ;)

[Grits]

Thanks I'll check my library first, was a big book reader a few years ago
too much internet. ;)

I thought about this after I wrote as I remembered you were a retired police officer. That you might have read the Art Of War. The other one I spoke of Winter Coming, that one was just released in November 2016. Good stuff, but scary. I'd never trust Putin. EVER.

CNN just alluded that Putin is sitting in front of his big screen tv with a bag of popcorn. Like us, he's wondering who Trumps gonna piss off next. Senator Lewis, Germany, Press corp. That's just today!!! He's on a roll, Wood.

[davew]

[QUOTE=elysiantraveller]Anyone who thinks we are doing nothing has their head in the sand.

Secondly, Russia supports Assad, Hamas, and Iran...

We support the Rebels, the Sunnis, and Israel...

QUOTE]

But don't forget 0bama supports Rebels(Daesh), Hamas, and Iran

[woodtoo]

I thought about this after I wrote as I remembered you were a retired police officer. That you might have read the Art Of War. The other one I spoke of Winter Coming, that one was just released in November 2016. Good stuff, but scary. I'd never trust Putin. EVER.

CNN just alluded that Putin is sitting in front of his big screen tv with a bag of popcorn. Like us, he's wondering who Trumps gonna piss off next. Senator Lewis, Germany, Press corp. That's just today!!! He's on a roll, Wood.
I think you mistook me for some else, I may have caused a police officer to retire in my younger days though. :D

[davew]

It is the last chance for dems to keep Trump out - have you seen the show Designated Survivor?

There are 'Continuity of Government' procedures in place that keep the government going. 0bama could designate anyone to run the government.


Is this why 65+ dem representatives are not going to inauguration?

[Grits]

I think you mistook me for some else, I may have caused a police officer to retire in my younger days though. :D

Wood, yes, I did. I believe it's MONEY that's the retired officer. I'm sorry. ;)

[woodtoo]

4 more sleeps and their out, out, out!!
The Russians are so on to their pissant little blame game.
Trump can clean the swamp, join forces with Putin and finally kick some...
kick ISIS ass wherever it infests. The times of great jubilation will be upon us! :jump: :jump: :jump: :jump:

Didn't take Mattis long (1st day) 31 strikes against ISIS in Syria and Iraq
heavy damage in Raqqas' command center and damage to Tabqa dam.
If they blow up the 2 bridges and the dam their main Caliphate area will become a liability. I recall the new SoD saying he would try to decimate ISIS in 30 days. :ThmbUp: