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View Full Version : Oaklawn Park & 10% T/O on track show bets


fmhealth
01-12-2017, 08:40 PM
An interesting, albeit small step in the right direction. Perhaps other tracks will build upon this & expand the concept to other pools.

Be Well,
fmhealth



http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/columns/richard-eng/oaklawn-park-shows-new-wagering-options-opening-day

thaskalos
01-12-2017, 08:49 PM
Show bettors REJOICE! :rolleyes:

davew
01-12-2017, 09:32 PM
wow, Vic Stauffer congrats on announcer job

I was thinking they have had 10 cent breakage for negative pools for some time haven't they? $2.20 beats $2.10

The article says you need to make the show bet on-track to get the 10%, so I suspect in many instances the breakage will even the pay-offs anyway.

Nitro
01-12-2017, 09:34 PM
Yes, patronize that Scared Money!
Players should no longer be afraid of losing in the long run realizing what a big difference there will be in the Show pool payoffs. WOW thatís exciting!

EMD4ME
01-12-2017, 09:41 PM
Wish NYRA did this. I'd play even more parlays.

BELMONT 6-6-09
01-12-2017, 09:50 PM
It would be a great idea for tracks to eliminate show betting all together and most of the show bettors would move up to the place pool which would become a significant pool with the influx of money.

Nitro
01-12-2017, 10:18 PM
It would be a great idea for tracks to eliminate show betting all together and most of the show bettors would move up to the place pool which would become a significant pool with the influx of money.You mean they should follow an extremely successful program like the Hong Kong betting platform? Heaven forbid!

That and SO-O-O-O many other good things about their racing product is right there in front of all our blind stateside racing jurisdictions. Itís no wonder that these racing programs are going in opposite directions from a player's perspective.

Light
01-12-2017, 10:22 PM
The article says:

"Show bets made on-track will have a low 10 percent takeout. Show bets made off-track will still have a 17 percent takeout. "

no breathalyzer
01-12-2017, 10:22 PM
i love show betting .. hope they never get rid of it... i love the free $$$ gift that pops up every month or so when a bridge jumper eats shit

dilanesp
01-13-2017, 01:01 AM
It would be a great idea for tracks to eliminate show betting all together and most of the show bettors would move up to the place pool which would become a significant pool with the influx of money.

The LA Times article I posted at the end of last month indicated that tracks have studied eliminating show betting and come to the conclusion it is a bad idea.

And I believe that. It attracts novice players by giving them a bet that allows them to cash some tickets when they go to the races.

MONEY
01-13-2017, 02:56 AM
i love show betting .. hope they never get rid of it... i love the free $$$ gift that pops up every month or so when a bridge jumper eats shit
The 1st bet that I ever made was a $2.00 show bet on a 5/2 horse at Yonkers Raceway. The horse won and paid, $7.00 win, $15.00 Place and $35.00 to show.

davew
01-13-2017, 07:48 PM
oaklawn has a lot of dollars in the show pool relative to win pool
most races win pool was 3-4 times show pool for dollars bet

compare that to Aqueduct where
most races win pool is 8-10 times show pool

dilanesp
01-13-2017, 07:52 PM
oaklawn has a lot of dollars in the show pool relative to win pool
most races win pool was 3-4 times show pool for dollars bet

compare that to Aqueduct where
most races win pool is 8-10 times show pool

Oaklawn has a lot of tourists, casual players, and $2 bettors.

I have never checked this, but I bet there's a similar phenomenon on opening day and weekends at Del Mar.

BELMONT 6-6-09
01-13-2017, 08:14 PM
Eliminating the show pool might create some win/place betting this way the newbies can have a hedge bet and eventually progress to win only and the exotics if they see fit.

lamboguy
01-13-2017, 08:34 PM
if this works the way the track wants it to work, they will probably do the same thing with the place pools and maybe even the win pools.

i suspect the reason why they came up with this is to get more breakage. the breakage doesn't get shared with the horsemen or the government and this is what they figured out to boost up their revenue share for the house. the horsemen probably didn't object because the purses are very high there this year, $70K for a msw race.

Tom
01-13-2017, 08:49 PM
A track doing something to benefit their customers who show up.
What is with these people....loose cannons??? :rolleyes:

dilanesp
01-13-2017, 08:51 PM
Eliminating the show pool might create some win/place betting this way the newbies can have a hedge bet and eventually progress to win only and the exotics if they see fit.

Or it might drive newbies away entirely because they go to the track and don't cash any tickets.

lamboguy
01-13-2017, 08:57 PM
if this works the way the track wants it to work, they will probably do the same thing with the place pools and maybe even the win pools.

i suspect the reason why they came up with this is to get more breakage. the breakage doesn't get shared with the horsemen or the government and this is what they figured out to boost up their revenue share for the house. the horsemen probably didn't object because the purses are very high there this year, $70K for a msw race.
i think i misstated that, the breakage is part of the handle and they would have to still payout the shares of the handle, but unless the handle would increase the share paid out decreases while the breakage hold increases

green80
01-13-2017, 09:47 PM
Will they have 2 different show prices? one for on track and one for off?

Just one show price is listed today.

Redboard
01-13-2017, 10:09 PM
Even at 10% rake, one has to bat 1000 to make money off this bet. Now exacta would be different. Appreciate the effort though.

davew
01-13-2017, 10:14 PM
Will they have 2 different show prices? one for on track and one for off?

Just one show price is listed today.

On the live feed, they showed the on-track show price.
I only watched one race, but it was 20 or 40 cents higher for that race.


I do not understand Lambo why you feel they will get more breakage? It will just have less variance and still average near 10 cents per pay-off, won't it?


I am scratching my head how they even figure it out - anyone have any ideas? They can't have 2 pools for show -> take entire breakage out, figure pay-offs and then add 7% back in for on-track?

dilanesp
01-14-2017, 02:22 AM
On the live feed, they showed the on-track show price.
I only watched one race, but it was 20 or 40 cents higher for that race.


I do not understand Lambo why you feel they will get more breakage? It will just have less variance and still average near 10 cents per pay-off, won't it?


I am scratching my head how they even figure it out - anyone have any ideas? They can't have 2 pools for show -> take entire breakage out, figure pay-offs and then add 7% back in for on-track?

They can do it the same way NYOTB did it for years.

PhantomOnTour
01-14-2017, 02:58 AM
You mean they should follow an extremely successful program like the Hong Kong betting platform? Heaven forbid!

That and SO-O-O-O many other good things about their racing product is right there in front of all our blind stateside racing jurisdictions. Itís no wonder that these racing programs are going in opposite directions from a player's perspective.
i thought the place bet overseas covered those who finished 2nd AND 3rd?

davew
01-14-2017, 04:28 AM
i thought the place bet overseas covered those who finished 2nd AND 3rd?

It depends on number of starters in UK, sometimes even 4 horses

PhantomOnTour
01-14-2017, 11:40 AM
It depends on number of starters in UK, sometimes even 4 horses
Thanks...was trying to make the point to Nitro (who is having a mad love affair with HK) that they do have "show" wagering in Hong Kong; they just happen to refer to the bet as "place"

So, if i bet a horse to place in a 10 horse field in HK and my runner finishes third, do I still cash?

EMD4ME
01-14-2017, 05:47 PM
RACE 6 Win pool $84K
Place pool $35K
Show pool $39K

Nice to see a track try an idea that I threw out there many times. (Lower takout for a wager(s) on track. )



And in other parts of the country: Track exec : "We don't really need to broadcast our races on TV's, right?

Other overpaid exec:"The moment you start caring about the bettor, you know you lost it".

AltonKelsey
01-17-2017, 12:28 AM
The LA Times article I posted at the end of last month indicated that tracks have studied eliminating show betting and come to the conclusion it is a bad idea.

And I believe that. It attracts novice players by giving them a bet that allows them to cash some tickets when they go to the races.

At the average racetrack, on an average day, I doubt it's novices using the show pool. 99% hardcore bettors.

dilanesp
01-17-2017, 02:12 AM
At the average racetrack, on an average day, I doubt it's novices using the show pool. 99% hardcore bettors.

I agree in general, but you have to look at it differently. When new blood does go to the track, do you want the show bet available to them? The reality is that it's unlikely that novice players are going to churn a lot of handle in any sort of bet, but if they cash some tickets it might encourage them to come back more.

AskinHaskin
01-17-2017, 12:48 PM
On the live feed, they showed the on-track show price.
I only watched one race, but it was 20 or 40 cents higher for that race.


I do not understand Lambo why you feel they will get more breakage? It will just have less variance and still average near 10 cents per pay-off, won't it?


I am scratching my head how they even figure it out - anyone have any ideas? They can't have 2 pools for show -> take entire breakage out, figure pay-offs and then add 7% back in for on-track?


Breakage has little to do with any of it.

The modern wonder that is Net Pool Pricing probably makes this task far more do-able in 2017 than it might have been in 1983.

After all, they are taking different percentages out of the same pools all over the continent as it is, and unlike in 1983.