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UnionRags
01-09-2017, 04:58 AM
thoughts on this colt?

sbcaris
01-09-2017, 01:57 PM
No Dozing has good breeding: By a Belmont winner, Union Rags, out of a Pulpit mare. His second damsire is Unbridled and thus he has Buckpasser in the X passing position. In addition he has the strong conduit mare, Remembrance in tail female.

sbcaris
01-09-2017, 01:59 PM
One mistake I made above. No Dozing has the strong conduit mare, Rambling Rose in tail female.

classhandicapper
01-09-2017, 05:39 PM
I was going to use No Dozing in the BC Juvenile and was actually disappointed when I found out he wasn't going to run. I played him in the Remsen. He ran OK, but I thought he was a lot better in the Breeder's Futurity against Classic Empire given the trip he had in that race.

CincyHorseplayer
01-09-2017, 07:58 PM
American Pharoah had his first foal too. Looks great. Out of a Tizway mare. This is an interesting cross. Many prefer a Northern Dancer line or an AP Indy line underneath. This is the truly meant to be an All American horse as AP was from the Fappiano line of Mr Prospector which by far is his best and Mr P himself was the only line(although still from Phalaris line) that didn't go through Nearco but through Native Dancer. The Tiznow line goes all the way back to Man O War with IMO no dominant sire in between. Really interesting in my mind.

SBCaris any thoughts on that female descent line on the colt?

Spalding No!
01-09-2017, 08:30 PM
No Dozing has good breeding: By a Belmont winner, Union Rags, out of a Pulpit mare. His second damsire is Unbridled and thus he has Buckpasser in the X passing position. In addition he has the strong conduit mare, Remembrance in tail female.
Lots of stamina and turf blood on the bottom, which compliments the bottom side of sire Union Rags. Lots of Belmont winners, too.

The 5th dam is Missy Baba which leads to Weekend Surprise and Lassie Dear which produced classic winners A.P. Indy, Lemon Drop Kid, and Summer Squall. 4th Dam Toll Booth leads to top turf mare Riskaverse who is a solid broodmare for Coolmore, Havre de Grace (HOY), and Tonalist (another Belmont winner).

If he doesn't win the Belmont Stakes, he should wheel back in the Belmont Derby.

PowerUpPaynter
01-10-2017, 09:00 PM
Mastery has a really good bloodline as far as i can tell... SBCaris can prob confirm or deny better than me tho...

sbcaris
01-11-2017, 08:50 AM
Mastery is undefeated in 3 starts but because of his broodmare sire, Old Trieste, I would not think of him as a sold contender in the Derby at 10 furlongs. Old Trieste was best going in sprints and middle distances. Mastery's conduit mare, Olympia, is not a strong source of stamina. Having Buckpasser as his fourth damsire is a plus.

Note: The above is just my opinion. Since the horse has done nothing wrong yet it is probably best to wait and see what happens when he is asked to travel 9 furlongs in a major prep race.

PowerUpPaynter
01-11-2017, 08:55 AM
isnt it, and correct me if im wrong im still learning about pedigree, but isnt that a strong buckpasser as it was transfered all via females all the way to mastery? plus he does have 3 of the 4 large heart families in his lines. Are they just too far back?

sbcaris
01-11-2017, 01:56 PM
PowerUpPaynter: I agree with you that Buckpasser is a positive factor. However, a horse receives 25% of his genes from his broodmare sire. Old Trieste's influence might just be too much speed although there is no actual way of knowing this until a horse is tried against the best at 9 furlongs and beyond. Storm Cat, Mastery's second damsire is also more of a speed influence than a stamina influence. And Mr. Prospector in the X passing position has gotten only one Derby winner thru history (Super Saver).

Spalding No!
01-11-2017, 04:10 PM
Mastery is undefeated in 3 starts but because of his broodmare sire, Old Trieste, I would not think of him as a sold contender in the Derby at 10 furlongs. Old Trieste was best going in sprints and middle distances.
Although he had a world of speed, Old Trieste never won a sprint race. All his victories were around 2 turns. He set the fastest one mile fraction in Kentucky Derby history (at least at the time he ran in it...Songandaprayer might have gone faster) coming after an unheard of 6f workout the week before in 1:09+ (I'm not kidding).

His only other attempt at 10f was in the 1999 BC Classic, in which I believe he raced in bar shoes as his feet (as is typical of many A.P. Indy-line horses) were a huge issue and had halted both his 3yo and 4yo campaigns. His 9f races at Hollywood Park (the Swaps and Californian) were absolutely sensational performances, winning both by the length of the stretch.

Mastery himself might be susceptible to foot issues from a heritable standpoint. Not only is the A.P. Indy line famous for bad feet, but so are those descending from Candy Ride.

Beyond that, Mastery has some stamina deep in the pedigree. He is from the family of Jump Start and Miswaki. Jump Start is the sire of 10f G1 winner Rail Trip and Argentine HOY Idolo Porteno (currently in the US). Miswaki sired BC Classic winner Black Tie Affair and Arc winner Urban Sea, who is even more famous as the dam of both Sea The Stars and the reigning world champion sire Galileo.

sbcaris
01-11-2017, 05:36 PM
Spalding No: According to the racing form Old Trieste entered the Derby off of an allowance mile race at Santa Anita which he won by 10 lengths. The result chart shows him running the first six furlongs of the Ky Derby in 1:10 3/5 with a 3 1/2 length lead. At the mile call he was third behind Real Quiet and Indian Charlie. Real Quiet was credited with the mile in 1:35 3/5 in Old Trieste's Derby. In 1985 Spend A Buck passed the mile marker in 1:34 4/5 on his way to winning the roses in 2:00 1/5 one of the fastest Derbies in history.

You were right about that workout before the run for the roses. He worked a sensational six furlongs in 1:09 flat on April 26, 1998 at Churchill Downs. That could be the fastest six furlong workout ever before the run for the roses by any Derby entry.

Only time will tell if Mastery can display some of the stamina found deep in his pedigree.

PowerUpPaynter
01-11-2017, 09:04 PM
Spalding No: According to the racing form Old Trieste entered the Derby off of an allowance mile race at Santa Anita which he won by 10 lengths. The result chart shows him running the first six furlongs of the Ky Derby in 1:10 3/5 with a 3 1/2 length lead. At the mile call he was third behind Real Quiet and Indian Charlie. Real Quiet was credited with the mile in 1:35 3/5 in Old Trieste's Derby. In 1985 Spend A Buck passed the mile marker in 1:34 4/5 on his way to winning the roses in 2:00 1/5 one of the fastest Derbies in history.

You were right about that workout before the run for the roses. He worked a sensational six furlongs in 1:09 flat on April 26, 1998 at Churchill Downs. That could be the fastest six furlong workout ever before the run for the roses by any Derby entry.

Only time will tell if Mastery can display some of the stamina found deep in his pedigree.



are there any horses you are watching based on a exceptional pedigree?

sbcaris
01-11-2017, 10:07 PM
PowerUpPaynter: Right now I am looking closely at four horses each of which carry the Raise A Native sire line, Buckpasser in the X passing position and a strong conduit mare in tail female:

Butch Walker
Sonic Mule
Irish War Jig
Classic Empire

One side note: Just because a horse carries the above three pedigree factors is no guarantee that he will run well in the preps. However, horses that carry one or more of the above three factors have done exceedingly well in the Derby if they run a fast finish in one of the major prep races (the big 5) --Fla Derby, Blue Grass, SA Derby, Wood Memorial, or Ark Derby.

I am sure many more horses will become contenders as the prep races are run in Jan, Feb, March and April.

PowerUpPaynter
01-22-2017, 10:41 PM
PowerUpPaynter: Right now I am looking closely at four horses each of which carry the Raise A Native sire line, Buckpasser in the X passing position and a strong conduit mare in tail female:

Butch Walker
Sonic Mule
Irish War Jig
Classic Empire

One side note: Just because a horse carries the above three pedigree factors is no guarantee that he will run well in the preps. However, horses that carry one or more of the above three factors have done exceedingly well in the Derby if they run a fast finish in one of the major prep races (the big 5) --Fla Derby, Blue Grass, SA Derby, Wood Memorial, or Ark Derby.

I am sure many more horses will become contenders as the prep races are run in Jan, Feb, March and April.

What do you think of Fact Finding? 3 for 3 and a lot of Buckpasser in the pedigree

sbcaris
01-23-2017, 05:04 PM
PowerUpPaynter: Fact Finding certainly has Buckpasser's genes (5X5X5). He is inbred to Mistake 3X3 and has Buckpasser as his 4th damsire. He also traces to the strong conduit mare, Doxa, in tail female. Certainly an interesting pedigree with all that Buckpasser. Lets wait and see what he does at 9 furlongs in a major prep race.