Don't be a small fish in a big pond

[TOOZ]

There was a recent article on how well Steve Asmussen runs a big
stable. The following incident shows how "well". My buddy paid
50 grand for a horse named Smooth as Siliver. Originally had
him with Dickenson who wanted to make him a grass runner (surprise). Had one start in Maryland, then Dickenson told him
to send him to Asmussen. He won his second start (MSW) at
Sam Houston, which we cleaned up on by the way, then
Asmussen took him to the Fairgrounds. After trying dirt and turf, and making enough to pay the bills, running in nw1 other than,
the great one dropped him in to 30 claiming nw of 2 and he
was claimed. A few races with the new trainer and he was privately sold to no one else but Temple Webber, half owner of
Mineshaft. He actually won on the undercard of Derby day. He's
been running at AP, and is now with Amoss and new owners.
I think he might have been sold again. A couple of questions
cross my mind.

1. If you owned one horse, who would you rather have him with,
a reputable trainer who would be happy to have a good
earning allowance horse in his barn, or Stevie, who probably
hired a LSU animal science graduate, gave him the title of
assistant trainger, and gave him a few horses to train, one
being yours.

2. Is there anywhere where one could find out the price paid for
private sales of horses? I'm sure it would help the cappers,
but I would love to know because I'm still busting his chops
for letting the horse being dropped into a 30 claimer, and
I would love to know how much Webber paid for him.

His new horse, Outcome runs at Colonial either Friday or Saturday. Back with the other genius, Dickenson, who actually
scratched the horse his last race, not because the horse was
sick, but because two other horses in his barn were sick. That's
a genius move. He's going to be chalky, but all systems are
go.

[ranchwest]

hired a LSU animal science graduate, gave him the title
assistant trainger

Trainger? I guess you graduated from.... kindergarten?

[cryptic1]

I can't answer question #2, but with respect to your
first question I would say it depends. Generally speaking, if
your horse is with a big name trainer and your horse has real
ability you'll be taken care of. However, if the horse is nothing
special you'll get lost in the shuffle. A friend had a few horses
with Roger Attfield and won a few stakes over a number of
years. After a couple of years without horses gave Roger a
two year old. The horse wasn't particularly precocious and it
got lost in the shuffle. It didn't appear that Roger knew it was
in his barn. If a horse is just a run of the mill talent then you
would be better off with a smaller outfit that has time to give
it special attention and address its needs. They would give
the management of its career more attention as they try to
promote their own success by winning races.
The solution to being a small owner is in having your trainer
be a partner. If they have a vested interest there is less
likelihood of any shenanigans. I hope your friend has some
success in his present endeavour. I would certainly like to
hear about the methods employed by Mr. Dickenson. I hope
you'll be able to update this board.

Cryptic1

[Buddha]

i would think that the trainer would have the decency to tell the owner he planned to put him in a claimer and see what he thought, but with someone like assmussen who has so many horses, that could be a little tough. if i were only going to have one horse, i would rather have it with a capable "small time" trainer who I know will take care of the horse and would have the time to let me know what he planned on doing with the horse.

[Valuist]

Agree. I have a friend who has made a number of claims over the past 10 years. One of the best angles is the "lost in the shuffle" horse, who guys like Mott or Walden or basically anyone who is fairly high profile drop into the claiming ranks when a horse doesn't graduate from the NW1X ranks after 2 tries. These are usually big barns and have to make way for the 2YOs coming in. They don't have the time or patience to wait on a modestly talented runner, who at his best might be able to snag a NW2X in a track away from NY or SoCal.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I can relate to all your posts,POOR owners getting lost in the shuffle, I have made posts about this before.A small trainer is only a small trainer because he doesnt have a lot of horses. That doesnt mean he isn a big time trainer if given the chance.I guess a "BIG" time trainer gets greedy for tha 10% of the purse. I dont care what my horse runs for!. He can be a 4k claimer and as long as he tries in hs race I will be happy.The marriage between a owner and trainer becomes strained at several things..worse thing is for the trainer to tell the owner something is wrong with his horse, The big trainers train all these horses in numbers not individuals.Im sure for every runner that Mott has MANY didnt make it, A guy investing in this game for the first time needs a small honest guy to help him, I feel these big guys just rake in the money and have the assistents do all the work..I WAS there.

PS I remember Rodger Attfield when he first came to woodbine from England..How humble he was back then.

[kenwoodallpromos]

If I owned a horse the trainer would hate me because I would have it in the contract the purse range, and redo when needed (A $50,000 horse can run in cheap hcp, alw, or big claimers). With my horse I would also want to use my handicapping ability to help decide when the horse should run, if an older claimer.
Maybe run a nice claimer in a hcp or stakes with only 4 por 5 entrants.
I would also try to make sure the trainer specializes in the kind of horse mine is.
The few small trainers I have ever talked to, including Tom Schell, want to make sure the horse is healthy enough to run.
I wouls also try to match the track to the horse. I would prefer an early speed type in CA or TX, but a closer in FL.

____
Sounds like thr only problem was placement. Agree beforehand on that if possible; big or small, any trainer wants another horse of yours and more day rates.
If you find a nice closer, give it to McSchell Racing to train! Or buy Air Cool and some nice mares and start your own breeding operation!
_______
Tom- what kind of mare would you buy to start breeding at lower cost?

[ranchwest]

There's at least two sides to every story.

A friend of mine had a horse in SoCal. His side of the story is that the trainer tanked his horse with water and dropped him down for a claim. My friend lost both ways.

I suspect that the trainer's side of the story is that my friend talks too much. He probably ticked off the trainer.

It is probably a good idea to check around before making a commitment to a trainer. Some are good for the horse, some are good for the owner, some are good for themselves. Find someone who is good in all three of these categories and you'll probably find a guy selling shoes on Main Street.

[TOOZ]

One for the good guys:

14 Outcome 4.60 2.80 2.80
3 Just Say Boo 4.40 3.60
9 Good Night Shirt 4.20


Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool Carryover
$2 Exacta 14-3 23.00 36,663
$1 Superfecta 14-3-9-2 2,285.00 5,859
$2 Trifecta 14-3-9 141.80 24,029


By the way, Smooth as Silver runs at AP on Sunday, he's still
owned by Webber, he's been off form with low odds recently, hopefully the stiff job has been on and they are waiting for a
price, because they could get 5-1 on Sunday. If the track is wet,
beware. Ratso Razo in the irons.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Originally posted by TOOZ
There was a recent article on how well Steve Asmussen runs a big stable.

You must be referring to the article by Bill Finley: ESPN: Finley - July 20th (http://espn.go.com/horse/columns/misc/1843122.html)