Agree or Disagree

[Rexdale You]

The question is based on the following ###.

A horse covers the first 1/4 in 22secs.

It is therfore traveling @ 60ft per sec.based on 1/5 per Lth.

This represents 1100 Lths.per 1/4 or 12ft per Lth.

We now move to the last 1/4 in a sprint 6F

He covers the last 1/4 in 26sec.

Or 50.76ft per sec.

This represents 1300 Lths.per 1/4 or 10.15ft per Lth.

The last 1/4 in a route 1 1/8 the horse is clocked @ 28secs.

This represents 47.14ft per sec or 9.42ft per Lth.

So a Lth can be 12ft./ 10.15ft./ or 9.42ft. based on the above.

My point is each entry is producing his own Lth size based on
how fast or slow he is travelling.

A 1/4 horse may hit a 10.5 secs for 660 Ft producing a
larger Lth./Stride .As we all know this would be suicidal for
a thorobred.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks Rex You

[ranchwest]

I believe a better measurement of a length is between 8 and 9 feet.

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by Rexdale You
The question is based on the following ###.

A horse covers the first 1/4 in 22secs.

It is therfore traveling @ 60ft per sec.based on 1/5 per Lth.

This represents 1100 Lths.per 1/4 or 12ft per Lth.

We now move to the last 1/4 in a sprint 6F

He covers the last 1/4 in 26sec.

Or 50.76ft per sec.

This represents 1300 Lths.per 1/4 or 10.15ft per Lth.

The last 1/4 in a route 1 1/8 the horse is clocked @ 28secs.

This represents 47.14ft per sec or 9.42ft per Lth.

So a Lth can be 12ft./ 10.15ft./ or 9.42ft. based on the above.

My point is each entry is producing his own Lth size based on
how fast or slow he is travelling.

A 1/4 horse may hit a 10.5 secs for 660 Ft producing a
larger Lth./Stride .As we all know this would be suicidal for
a thorobred.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks Rex You

I believe you have confused lengths with velocity. A length is supposed to be constant regardless of the distance the horse travels in a fixed amount of time.

NDJ

[ranchwest]

NDJ,

You are correct. For years, racing publications have confused this matter in order to simplify calculations.

The simple way is to convert lengths to seconds and add to the time.

The logical way is to convert lengths to feet and subtract the feet from the distance. It makes for a little tougher calculations, but it is more accurate (IMHO).

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by ranchwest
NDJ,

The logical way is to convert lengths to feet and subtract the feet from the distance. It makes for a little tougher calculations, but it is more accurate (IMHO).

Use the following equation to get an approximate time for horses running behind the leader.

F = furlongs --- L = lengths back --- T = time in 5ths or 100ths

(66 * F) / ((66 * F) - L) * T

Leader's time 4 furlongs in 45 secs. and your horse is 3.25 lengths back.

(66 * 4) / ((66 * 4) - 3.25) * 45 = 264 / (264 - 3.25) = 1.012464 * 45 = 45.56 for the trailing horse.

NDJ

[kenwoodallpromos]

1/5 second originated with splits of the decades-old stopwatches; lengths because 8' was and mostly is the standard distance between rail posts. They are still used to confuse bettors and because racing is extremely slow to update.
Most if not all futuritie, not to mention all other timed sports, ALL runners are timed to the 1/100 or 1/1000 second. Easy.
Since all lengths posted anywhere by any caller is strictly a guess, and when determined by reviewing photos the railpost length is not given, you can safely assume 8' or .14 seconds per length (about 11 1/2 seconds per furlong).
If you know that the rail is 9' like Bekmont, or for slow times in routes, assume .16 seconds per length.
If your horse finished 1 1/8 at 28 seconds, it is a very slow track and your bet should be on a closer or pressor.

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
If your horse finished 1 1/8 at 28 seconds, it is a very slow track and your bet should be on a closer or pressor.

You are referring to the final 1/4 mile in a 9 furlong race at 28 seconds, aren't you? Otherwise that horse will be traveling over 212 ft/sec. or about 144.64 miles per hour and Secretariat will be turning 50,000 RPM's in his grave.

NDJ

[Rexdale You]

NDJ,,,Yes I,m referring to the last 1/4 in a 9fur race

However if you use 9ft per Lth I believe it would take
14 3/5 secs.to travel 2 fur. or 1320ft. And 730 1/5secs.

Again Velocity and distance are interchangable from my
perspective.

By using the breakdown of 1/5 secs that is solid.
The footprint will vary based on if the horse is
travelling at 60ft.per sec.or 50ft.per.sec.

I think its a mistake to think a horse is making equal
strides thruout the race.

Are you suggesting a 1/5 sec.@ 22secs.or 1100Lths.
is equal to a 1/5sec.@26secs.or 1300Lths.

I realise its all academic and an attempt to think out
of the box.

Appreciate your response.,,,Rex You

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by Rexdale You
NDJ,,,Yes I,m referring to the last 1/4 in a 9fur race

However if you use 9ft per Lth I believe it would take
14 3/5 secs.to travel 2 fur. or 1320ft. And 730 1/5secs.

Again Velocity and distance are interchangable from my
perspective.

By using the breakdown of 1/5 secs that is solid.
The footprint will vary based on if the horse is
travelling at 60ft.per sec.or 50ft.per.sec.

I think its a mistake to think a horse is making equal
strides thruout the race.

Are you suggesting a 1/5 sec.@ 22secs.or 1100Lths.
is equal to a 1/5sec.@26secs.or 1300Lths.

I realise its all academic and an attempt to think out
of the box.

Appreciate your response.,,,Rex You

The stride or leap of a horse isn't the same as a length. A length is an arbitrary distance some where between 8 and 10 feet. 10 feet is used in my example because of normal deceleration and actually hand timing horses at various points on the track.

NDJ

[Rexdale You]

NDJ,,,I agree with you an 8 or 10 ft Lth has been served
up by the industry for many moons.

I also agree its an arbitrary decision which makes it random
and without reason.

The industry is long overdue for a overhaul of its basic
components that are fundamental to the exercise of
handicapping.

Handicappers have to make more noise and demand a
better product from the various suppliers.


Regards,,,,Rex You

[kingfin66]

I was told there would be no math.

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by Rexdale You
NDJ,,, The industry is long overdue for a overhaul of its basic components that are fundamental to the exercise of handicapping.

Handicappers have to make more noise and demand a better product from the various suppliers.

Regards,,,,Rex You

I'm afraid it's an exercise in futility or as we used to say in the service, "Tell it to the chaplain".

NDJ

[ranchwest]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
1/5 second originated with splits of the decades-old stopwatches; lengths because 8' was and mostly is the standard distance between rail posts. They are still used to confuse bettors and because racing is extremely slow to update.
Most if not all futuritie, not to mention all other timed sports, ALL runners are timed to the 1/100 or 1/1000 second. Easy.
Since all lengths posted anywhere by any caller is strictly a guess, and when determined by reviewing photos the railpost length is not given, you can safely assume 8' or .14 seconds per length (about 11 1/2 seconds per furlong).
If you know that the rail is 9' like Bekmont, or for slow times in routes, assume .16 seconds per length.
If your horse finished 1 1/8 at 28 seconds, it is a very slow track and your bet should be on a closer or pressor.

I still maintain that the proper way to measure velocity is by assigning a value for lengths (adjust the value by track if you wish) and then deduct the distance in lengths converted to a common measurement from furlongs.

Time is time, distance is distance. A length is a distance, it is not time. If you convert it to time, you will be comparing apples to oranges and provide yourself with disinformation for most calculations.

[Rexdale You]

Kenwood,,,,I would have to disagree with your assumption
8Ft. 11.5secs,,,,the first 1/2 of a So-Cal sprint
maybe.

But a stretch run of 11.2/5 even on Breeders Cup
day would be the exception versus the rule.

The 60 sec hand on the clock is precise,all the
movements are exact.

So for 10 entries in a race the movements would
be to say the least eratic. So see if you can
imagine a clockface for each entry.

That would highlight my point of the various
Lths that are being displayed by the entries.

For me that would be the ultimate handicapping
information.

So what if the fav. is 1/5

Regards,,,,Rex You

[ranchwest]

When you are driving a car, do you use the speedometer as a clock?

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by ranchwest
When you are driving a car, do you use the speedometer as a clock?

Yup, I like to use the clock as a speedometer, especially when the cops pull me over for speeding. Then I can plead stupidity. Great analogy!