How Trump gets Mexico to pay for the wall

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Might work

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/heres-how-trump-plans-to-force-mexico-to-pay-for-border-wall/

[Tom]

Sounds like a plan.
Let's make a deal....

[elysiantraveller]

This has been discussed and wouldn't work a multitude of reasons.

[Tom]

Another prediction of something with no chance? :cool:

[elysiantraveller]

Another prediction of something with no chance? :cool:

The legal and regulatory apparatus doesn't exist for one.

Money order companies are not banks either and therefore not subject to CIP and KYC protocols of banks under the Patriot Act. Something they would surely fight as it destroys their business model would be second.

Finally, in order for this to be even remotely feasible all international wire transfers would have to be monitored to prevent off-shoring through a third vendor... refer to one.

[OntheRail]

The legal and regulatory apparatus doesn't exist for one.

Money order companies are not banks either and therefore not subject to CIP and KYC protocols of banks under the Patriot Act. Something they would surely fight as it destroys their business model would be second.

Finally, in order for this to be even remotely feasible all international wire transfers would have to be monitored to prevent off-shoring through a third vendor... refer to one.
If there is a will... there is a way. Just because it has not been done... does not mean it won't be. Remember it's now America First... or will be after 1-20-17. ;)

[elysiantraveller]

If there is a will... there is a way. Just because it has not been done... does not mean it won't be. Remember it's now America First... or will be after 1-20-17. ;)

Again this post is completely devoid of reality.

We would create the infrastructure to monitor every single wire that is sent internationally... knowing it still won't work due to the third point I made... at a cost of what would end up being less than us building the damn wall and paying for it in the first place.

These are facts... platitudes don't negate them.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Aw come on man everyone needs to take a ride on Hope and Change at least once.

[chadk66]

This would work like a champ. And if there isn't law that allows this.(which I highly doubt) with total control a new law allowing it will be passed in no time. I'm for cutting off all wire transfers to Mexico from private citizens until they cut the check for the wall. They would do it in ten minutes

[boxcar]

This has been discussed and wouldn't work a multitude of reasons.

Balderdash! Just keep the legislation to 20,000+ pages and don't have anyone read it until after it's passed and then go for it! If we passed Obamination Care with such a strategy, we can certainly get it to work to build a wall.

[OntheRail]

Again this post is completely devoid of reality.

We would create the infrastructure to monitor every single wire that is sent internationally... knowing it still won't work due to the third point I made... at a cost of what would end up being less than us building the damn wall and paying for it in the first place.

These are facts... platitudes don't negate them.
You Liberals Love Taxes and Regulation. Hell I have over $30 a month add to my phone bill due to them. So I'm sure a work-a-round will be found. All transaction are already tracked... a bit of code added is all it would take.

So Trump can repeal 5 job killing Reg.'s (maybe add in the Obama Phone Reg. that will reduce my phone bill by $5 a month) and add the Border Wall Buck Catcher Bill... ;)

[elysiantraveller]

You Liberals Love Taxes and Regulation. Hell I have over $30 a month add to my phone bill due to them. So I'm sure a work-a-round will be found. All transaction are already tracked... a bit of code added is all it would take.

So Trump can repeal 5 job killing Reg.'s (maybe add in the Obama Phone Reg. that will reduce my phone bill by $5 a month) and add the Border Wall Buck Catcher Bill... ;)
Balderdash! Just keep the legislation to 20,000+ pages and don't have anyone read it until after it's passed and then go for it! If we passed Obamination Care with such a strategy, we can certainly get it to work to build a wall.

This would work like a champ. And if there isn't law that allows this.(which I highly doubt) with total control a new law allowing it will be passed in no time. I'm for cutting off all wire transfers to Mexico from private citizens until they cut the check for the wall. They would do it in ten minutes
For the last effing time... I'm not a liberal... I'm less liberal than the President-Elect you all supported.

This will not work. You can't just "add" it to the Patriot Act.

Instead of responding with stupidity open google... and search the subject.

Getting Mexico to pay for the wall this way would be more expensive than just paying for the wall ourselves... :bang: :bang: :bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

Trump is all about optics. Sometimes that works.

[elysiantraveller]

Trump is all about optics. Sometimes that works.

:ThmbUp: Agree :ThmbUp:

There is very little substance to anything but wow can the guy sell... He gets mad props from me on that front.

[ebcorde]

it'll take the GOP a decade to understand the concept

I found out about bitcoin from one of my kids. He used to get paid in it when no one heard of it.

lots of ways around this.



The real issue for Trump is what if Mexico refuses to play ball?

repatriating millions of people against their will??? Mexico may say no. Possession is 90% of the law

[EasyGoer89]

it'll take the GOP a decade to understand the concept

I found out about bitcoin from one of my kids. He used to get paid in it when no one heard of it.

lots of ways around this.



The real issue for Trump is what if Mexico refuses to play ball?

repatriating millions of people against their will??? Mexico may say no. Possession is 90% of the law

More on Bitcoin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdBQ6DOxb4

[Clocker]

There is very little substance to anything but wow can the guy sell... He gets mad props from me on that front.

The article in the OP is from April. In May, Trump said it was just a suggestion. In November, on 60 Minutes, he said maybe a lot of it would be a fence.

Three days after Trump, in an appearance on “60 Minutes,” indicated he might build a fence instead (though in “certain areas, a wall is more appropriate”), congressional Republicans are hedging on whether they’ll support building the border wall, suggesting it may turn out to be some combination of wall, fencing, and “invisible fence” technology such as patrolling by drones.

And surrogates for Trump have been suggesting that the wall might end up being more of a metaphor for enhancing border security than an actual bricks-and-mortar barrier.



The guy negotiates deals with himself in his head. :p

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trumps-border-wall-may-be-collapsing-231567 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trumps-border-wall-may-be-collapsing-231567)

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

The article in the OP is from April. In May, Trump said it was just a suggestion. In November, on 60 Minutes, he said maybe a lot of it would be a fence.



The guy negotiates deals with himself in his head. :p

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trumps-border-wall-may-be-collapsing-231567 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trumps-border-wall-may-be-collapsing-231567)

Correct. It is a suggestion. But it is possible, and at the very least a negotiation tool. The Mexicans just say that they would be willing to pay for half the wall if Trump left NAFTA alone.

Negotiations.

[classhandicapper]

I'd estimate the chances of the wall being built at about 75% now. That's pretty high considering I once estimated the chances of Trump being elected at 12 trillion to 1 against. :lol:

[elysiantraveller]

Correct. It is a suggestion. But it is possible, and at the very least a negotiation tool. The Mexicans just say that they would be willing to pay for half the wall if Trump left NAFTA alone.

Negotiations.

No its not...

Its stupidity that Trump supporters believe is even possible... which it really isn't if you understand anything about wire transfers, banking AML protocols, the Patroit Act, and what its really meant to do...

[classhandicapper]

No its not...

Its stupidity that Trump supporters believe is even possible... which it really isn't if you understand anything about wire transfers, banking AML protocols, the Patroit Act, and what its really meant to do...

I have a question for you.

I used to play a lot of online poker during the poker boom. At the time it was fairly easy to fund my accounts and make withdrawals using credit cards and other means. Once "black Friday' occurred and the DOJ put it's foot down, it became much more difficult. You could still do it, but most of the options were eliminated.

If they could put a major crimp in the ability of Americans to fund their offshore gambling accounts, surely they can make it more difficult for non citizens to send money to Mexico. If there's a will, there's a way. People will find ways around it. But if they even make it way more difficult, that could be enough to move the needle on policy.

[elysiantraveller]

I have a question for you.

I used to play a lot of online poker during the poker boom. At the time it was fairly easy to fund my accounts and make withdrawals using credit cards and other means. Once "black Friday' occurred and the DOJ put it's foot down, it became much more difficult. You could still do it, but most of the options were eliminated.

If they could put a major crimp in the ability of Americans to fund their offshore gambling accounts, surely they can make it more difficult for non citizens to send money to Mexico. If there's a will, there's a way. People will find ways around it. But if they even make it way more difficult, that could be enough to move the needle on policy.

Your problem is the money is being transferred not wired to an established account. Wire companies such as Money Gram and Western Union do not actually "Hold" any of the money. It merely zips along the wire to its next intended and regulated institution.

The first problem with this plan is it would require wire servicing companies to follow the exact same protocols as banks... but they aren't banks... they have no reason to be banks they don't hold money.

The second after that fact is simply volume... You are funding very specific overseas accounts. Not EVERY account in an entire country. Its simply not feasible.

The Patriot Act forced banking institutions to follow protocols to protect against money laundering and terrorist funding. This is done with Know Your Customer and Customer Identification Processes. Their terms not mine. Banks are required to have this information on hand before accounts can be opened... as I said Wire Companies don't have accounts thus there is no need for these provisions to be followed. This isn't money laundering. Its perfectly legal.

You can't just "shut it down."

The whole thing is as dumb as thinking a "wall" will stop people from coming here illegally in the first place... when in history has a wall ever done much of everything? ;)

Finally none of this really matters as Trump has already walked this back as a solution because it isn't one. Wire companies would tie this up in courts for years. Nevermind the millions of legal immigrants who wish to wire money back to families as well.

[Tom]

Throw enough predictions at the wall and one will eventually stick. :sleeping:

[FakeNameChanged]

What about a moat? Make Mexico pay for the water to fill it.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

What about a moat? Make Mexico pay for the water to fill it.
We're pretty much taking all the water in rivers that flow toward Mexico now!

[ebcorde]

last I heard most of the wall will be cameras, and fencing.
It's BS

just like Obamacare. "ON DAY 1 WE WILL REPEAL OBAMACARE" (roar of the crowd) another lie

the world is lol at us. everybody tweeting like schoolchildren, makes me sick.
Russia ready to occupy the white house, Don King. I sick to my stomach

[OntheRail]

The whole thing is as dumb as thinking a "wall" will stop people from coming here illegally in the first place... when in history has a wall ever done much of everything?

That Berlin Wall worked pretty damn well.

Before the Wall's erection, 3.5 million East Germans circumvented Eastern Bloc emigration restrictions and defected from the GDR, many by crossing over the border from East Berlin into West Berlin; from which they could then travel to West Germany and other Western European countries. Between 1961 and 1989, the Wall prevented almost all such emigration During this period, around 5,000 people attempted to escape over the Wall

So from 3.5 mil down to 5 thousand over a 28 year period or 178.5 per year.

That's results due to a WALL. ;)

[elysiantraveller]

That Berlin Wall worked pretty damn well.



So from 3.5 mil down to 5 thousand over a 28 year period or 178.5 per year.

That's results due to a WALL. ;)

And armed towers and minefield between them but yeah... you're right... worked great.

Historically walls have been good at keeping people in not keeping them out. Even Jericho fell.

[OntheRail]

last I heard most of the wall will be cameras, and fencing.
It's BS

just like Obamacare. "ON DAY 1 WE WILL REPEAL OBAMACARE" (roar of the crowd) another lie

the world is lol at us. everybody tweeting like schoolchildren, makes me sick.
Russia ready to occupy the white house, Don King. I sick to my stomach
We had to endure 8 years of Obama... from his scrape and bow tour to his ending hissy fit. If the World is LOL at us it because of the current POS-POTUS.

Just empowering Border Patrol and untying their hands to do it's Job will be a big step in the right direction.

[OntheRail]

And armed towers and minefield between them but yeah... you're right... worked great.

Historically walls have been good at keeping people in not keeping them out. Even Jericho fell.

Hey if it keeps half in their own Country and the other half out of OURS.. I'm okay with that. Line starts behind the gate to get in legally.

[classhandicapper]

The Patriot Act forced banking institutions to follow protocols to protect against money laundering and terrorist funding. This is done with Know Your Customer and Customer Identification Processes. Their terms not mine. Banks are required to have this information on hand before accounts can be opened... as I said Wire Companies don't have accounts thus there is no need for these provisions to be followed. This isn't money laundering. Its perfectly legal.

You can't just "shut it down."

The whole thing is as dumb as thinking a "wall" will stop people from coming here illegally in the first place... when in history has a wall ever done much of everything? ;)



Your criteria for success seems to be perfection. That's the wrong way to think about it. Everyone already understands that perfection is not achievable. Significant reduction is the goal (both in terms of money flowing out and people coming in).

For example, changing the rules for funding poker sites with credit cards did not stop people from doing it. It made it more difficult, reduced it, and had the desired impact.

In fact, Money Gram, Western Union and places like that were one way it was possible to continue funding off shore accounts. In some cases there was a lot of "trust" involved, but you could do a person to person wire to some fictional person in some foreign country and the money would magically wind up in your account.

I still don't get it entirely though.

Why can't you simply make it illegal or require a fee to do wire transfers from places like that within the US unless you can show you are a US citizen (SS card for example) or someone that can demonstrate they are in the US legally (vias etc..)?

Sure, an illegal could still get around it by paying some citizen to do it for them. Sure, it might take time to implement. But again, the idea is not perfection. The idea would be to make it way more difficult to do and that in turn would change the thinking and policy in Mexico.

[boxcar]

And armed towers and minefield between them but yeah... you're right... worked great.

Historically walls have been good at keeping people in not keeping them out. Even Jericho fell.

Now, you're catching on! That's exactly what we want to do! We want to keep all the hot tamales in Mexico!

By the way, Jericho fell due to an act of God. Just sayin...

And one other thing: The China Wall worked great for centuries. And that wall was to keep the invaders out!

[ebcorde]

We had to endure 8 years of Obama... from his scrape and bow tour to his ending hissy fit. If the World is LOL at us it because of the current POS-POTUS.

Just empowering Border Patrol and untying their hands to do it's Job will be a big step in the right direction.


I did well under Obama my stocks avg up 2.5 times, salary almost doubled.
and I'm not sitting on my A waiting for a coal job.

Imagine where China and India would be if they moaned about cars taking their Rickshaw jobs away, hmm??? You adapt learn new skills. Now they're coming over and taking 130k a year jobs

Hell Carrie Fisher said "I'm not sitting by the phone waiting for a call to act, so she wrote.


Let the Billionaires control your life and you'll always be begging for a tax cut.

[elysiantraveller]

In fact, Money Gram, Western Union and places like that were one way it was possible to continue funding off shore accounts. In some cases there was a lot of "trust" involved, but you could do a person to person wire to some fictional person in some foreign country and the money would magically wind up in your account.

Because that is the nature of their business they aren't "accounts" which are subject to those regulations. This is making my point.

I still don't get it entirely though.

Why can't you simply make it illegal or require a fee to do wire transfers from places like that within the US unless you can show you are a US citizen (SS card for example) or someone that can demonstrate they are in the US legally (vias etc..)?

Because this mechanism doesn't exist within the Patriot Act. Secondly, who will retain this information to ensure compliance? No one is holding money.

Sure, an illegal could still get around it by paying some citizen to do it for them. Sure, it might take time to implement. But again, the idea is not perfection. The idea would be to make it way more difficult to do and that in turn would change the thinking and policy in Mexico.

The idea is to stop money wires using existing AML procedures implemented by institutions. These rules don't apply to Wire Companies because they can't "launder" money. The money is originating from a already verified source like a financial institution already subject to these protocols.

Trump has largely abandoned this idea. Its not workable but made for a great sound bite because smart people like yourself (I'm being serious here) think it would work. Problem is upon closer inspection there is no way to do it using existing legal apparatus.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

[QUOTE=elysiantraveller]You can't just "shut it down."

The whole thing is as dumb as thinking a "wall" will stop people from coming here illegally in the first place... when in history has a wall ever done much of everything? ;)

QUOTE]

That's like saying, murders and rapes have been going on forever so why waste time making them crimes. We'll never stop it so leave them alone.

Liberals. You can't live with'm, you can't live....

Hm, let's just stop after the first part. :bang:

[Thebart]

You folks still believe there's going to be a wall? That's funny.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

You folks still believe there's going to be a wall? That's funny.

Almost as funny as Trump being nominated and then beating the invincible Queen of the Damned.

I have this video saved which is a compilation of the liberal media begging the Republicans to nominate Trump and then laughing hysterically at the thought of it. This is followed by a montage of the loons staring in disbelief while others are crying. Since then I've added all of the hate being spewed by the hate-America left.

I think your post will be a fine addition to the collection.

[EasyGoer89]

You folks still believe there's going to be a wall? That's funny.
The wall just got 10 feet higher

[classhandicapper]

The idea is to stop money wires using existing AML procedures implemented by institutions. These rules don't apply to Wire Companies because they can't "launder" money. The money is originating from a already verified source like a financial institution already subject to these protocols..

Several off shore wires for gambling purposes to outside the country I am personally aware of were done with cash! The person took cash out of a bank account, took it to a place like Money Gram and sent it off shore P2P. That's how they got around existing bank restrictions. It happened to be legal money, but it could easily have been from an illegal immigrant getting paid in cash.

Point being, if you were required to present ID in order to do that kind of transfer you could limit it among illegal aliens (or charge them if they were here legally but not citizens) while still allowing others to continue doing it. It would require a new law. Perhaps it wouldn't be very easy to enforce and would not be 100%, but neither is anything else. The existing laws are being circumvented too.

I have no idea what Trump is going to do on the wall or about paying for it. I am simply arguing there are ways to make sending money out of the country a lot tougher than it is now and that in turn would change policy because Mexico NEEDS that money to keep flowing.

[ebcorde]

lower expectations.

thinking Big Daddy has a Benz for you prepare for a Kia But he'll speak of it like it's a Benz.

How many of you old-timers remember the USFL, my mom had season tixx.
Philly Stars and Eagles she was a football fanatic.

Trump singled handily ruined that league. impatient. Guys like Reggie White, Herschel was in it, they had good coaches too. It was good pro-football in the spring

took off wiki
In 1985, the USFL voted to move from a spring to a fall schedule in 1986 to compete directly with the NFL. This was done at the urging of New Jersey Generals majority owner Donald Trump and a handful of other owners as a way to force a merger between the leagues.

I forgot Jim Kelly, Steve Young were in it. It was a good league... YOUR BOY

[woodtoo]

Mexican National deported 19 times, now arrested for raping 13 year old on Greyhound bus!
elisiontraveler do you have a daughter?

[woodtoo]

Mexican National deported 19 times, now arrested for raping 13 year old on Greyhound bus!
elisiontraveler do you have a daughter?
"Somebodies doing the raping Don "-candidate Donald Trump

[incoming]

Several off shore wires for gambling purposes to outside the country I am personally aware of were done with cash! The person took cash out of a bank account, took it to a place like Money Gram and sent it off shore P2P. That's how they got around existing bank restrictions. It happened to be legal money, but it could easily have been from an illegal immigrant getting paid in cash.

Point being, if you were required to present ID in order to do that kind of transfer you could limit it among illegal aliens (or charge them if they were here legally but not citizens) while still allowing others to continue doing it. It would require a new law. Perhaps it wouldn't be very easy to enforce and would not be 100%, but neither is anything else. The existing laws are being circumvented too.

I have no idea what Trump is going to do on the wall or about paying for it. I am simply arguing there are ways to make sending money out of the country a lot tougher than it is now and that in turn would change policy because Mexico NEEDS that money to keep flowing.
You have walked ET thru a very plausible workaround. There are always workarounds against ALL rules and regulation. ;) How many you may ask, depends on your scruples, bankroll, tenacity and intellect. :eek:

I pray for your type of patience regularly......with respect.

[elysiantraveller]

You have walked ET thru a very plausible workaround. There are always workarounds against ALL rules and regulation. ;) How many you may ask, depends on your scruples, bankroll, tenacity and intellect. :eek:

I pray for your type of patience regularly......with respect.

Those regulations exist. Max on a personal wire is $3000.

Problem still exists though when you consider that the wire company is still required to keep all records of this.. They would fight this as it crushes their business model.

Can it be done with a new law...? Sure. I never said it couldn't what I said on the OP is that this plan of Trump's was horribly thought out and implementing it would be next to impossible. CH isn't the President saying this stuff. You guys keep backing up and eventually you'll be right about something.

[incoming]

Those regulations exist. Max on a personal wire is $3000.

Problem still exists though when you consider that the wire company is still required to keep all records of this.. They would fight this as it crushes their business model.

Can it be done with a new law...? Sure. I never said it couldn't what I said on the OP is that this plan of Trump's was horribly thought out and implementing it would be next to impossible. CH isn't the President saying this stuff. You guys keep backing up and eventually you'll be right about something.

Every time I follow one of your argument a crawfish comes to mind. ;)

[fast4522]

And armed towers and minefield between them but yeah... you're right... worked great.

Historically walls have been good at keeping people in not keeping them out. Even Jericho fell.
Mexican man accused of rape had 19 deportations, removals

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/31/mexican-man-accused-rape-had-19-deportations-removals.html

[chadk66]

The wall in some way, shape or form will be done.

[woodtoo]

Mexican man accused of rape had 19 deportations, removals

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/12/31/mexican-man-accused-rape-had-19-deportations-removals.html
Odd this is usually when they blame the messenger or crickets.
I truly hope President Trump stops funding for all sanctuary cities.
Build that wall, build that wall.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I don't know why nobody has thought of this before, but what we do is install an "invisible fence" along the border, and then just make Mexico fit all it's citizens with chips that give them a really nasty shock if they try to cross. We don't have to deal with the aesthetic issue of looking at some ugly monolith. Mexico pays for the chips, and as a good will gesture we'll run the wire and pay for the electricity. If anyone makes it through we'll get the code for the chips and shock them every hour anyway. Maybe even randomly shock a few in Mexico as a reminder. And any Mexican who crosses without his shock chip gets an extra special shock anyway before he gets deported.

I'm calling Kellyanne right away.

[incoming]

I hope the American voter holds not only Trump's feet to the fire on the wall issue but all politicians.

[fast4522]

I hope the American voter holds not only Trump's feet to the fire on the wall issue but all politicians.


Back in the day the war on drugs was mocked by all the heads and left wing actors as a waste of time and money. Today the heroin and Opioid Abuse has reached new heights with people overdosing that there is a real need to do something. Few places does the media report on the cost aspect of things, many a mule who brings large quantities on backpacks over a southern fence are junkies themselves. These illegals who get sick while on our side of the border often end up in the emergency room at near death conditions with a huge bill incurred saving their life often near one million dollars each. When someone is near dead from heroin, saving that life has huge costs. The problem becomes even more complex with the Opioids now being synthesized and the bulk of those products being manufactured in China. Other issues of illegals killing United States citizens and junkies and killer gangs cartels who distribute these drugs to the largest consumer the USA show a light on the President of the United States not performing his first most important duty keeping Americans safe.

[Tom]

I don't know why nobody has thought of this before, but what we do is install an "invisible fence" along the border,

Or we cold just hand out fliers with directions to your house, since YOU seem to have no problems with illegals. you feed them, pay for their medical bills, and let then have at it with YOUR relatives' kids.

I don't know why no one thought of that before.

[Greyfox]

This has been discussed and wouldn't work a multitude of reasons.

The DMZ between North and South Korea seemingly works quite well.

4VfPRga_Kio

[fast4522]

Or we cold just hand out fliers with directions to your house, since YOU seem to have no problems with illegals. you feed them, pay for their medical bills, and let then have at it with YOUR relatives' kids.

I don't know why no one thought of that before.

Well Tom, other than you and a few others NO ONE talks about health care costs driven up by hospitals who have to eat the cost of uninsured. These costs are very real and are passed on to everybody, hospitals are very expensive to maintain.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Or we cold just hand out fliers with directions to your house, since YOU seem to have no problems with illegals. you feed them, pay for their medical bills, and let then have at it with YOUR relatives' kids.

I don't know why no one thought of that before.
Somewhere around age three, your parents should have advised you to pay attention. Did you miss that piece of advice? That would include everything I've said about immigration, which is nowhere near what you said. I have no problems with illegals? No I just have problems with harebrained solutions to serious problems. And to make a point, I'm just letting you know that anyone can come up with a really stupid idea as long as they commit to not thinking about it very long.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Well Tom, other than you and a few others NO ONE talks about health care costs driven up by hospitals who have to eat the cost of uninsured. These costs are very real and are passed on to everybody, hospitals are very expensive to maintain.
- Everybody was talking about health care costs being driven up by the uninsured during the Obamacare consideration. That was the whole point of trying to get everyone into the pool. It was meant to address the problem of people going to the emergency room instead of seeing a PCP. Whether or not it was the right solution, we're all aware it is a problem that needs to be addressed.

- Three quarters of the people without insurance are legal. That means 75% of the complaint is citizens or legal residents.

- Your hated Obamacare prohibits government-subsidized insurance to anyone who cannot prove a legal immigration status

- American hospitals have long been required by law ONLY to screen and stabilize any patient. If you live in a sizable city, there is certainly a public hospital to care for the indigent.

- However, many counties, especially in smaller areas, set up indigent health care facilities in an effort to keep the uninsured out of emergency rooms.

[zico20]

Somewhere around age three, your parents should have advised you to pay attention. Did you miss that piece of advice? That would include everything I've said about immigration, which is nowhere near what you said. I have no problems with illegals? No I just have problems with harebrained solutions to serious problems. And to make a point, I'm just letting you know that anyone can come up with a really stupid idea as long as they commit to not thinking about it very long.

I thought your idea was ingenious. :ThmbUp: Too bad you weren't serious. :D

[Tom]

And to make a point, I'm just letting you know that anyone can come up with a really stupid idea as long as they commit to not thinking about it very long.

I remind you many here posted how really stupid it was to think Trump could ever win.

One thing I learned young, anything is possible. We've been to the moon and come back.

I think a wall is wall within our possibilities.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I thought your idea was ingenious. :ThmbUp: Too bad you weren't serious. :D
Yes, sometimes even my bad ideas are good!

[woodtoo]

I remind you many here posted how really stupid it was to think Trump could ever win.

One thing I learned young, anything is possible. We've been to the moon and come back.

I think a wall is wall within our possibilities.
I have a good laser level I'd be willing to donate and being a good sport...
free shipping.
We can all do our part to keep crime and drugs out.

[elysiantraveller]

The DMZ between North and South Korea seemingly works quite well.

4VfPRga_Kio

Land mines... And again there is a one way thing going on there. Keeping people in.

[woodtoo]

Landmines are an equal opportunity variable. Unfortunately

[Greyfox]

Land mines... And again there is a one way thing going on there. Keeping people in.

If you really believe that then it's a one way thing in the America's too.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Land mines... And again there is a one way thing going on there. Keeping people in.

Makes no sense.
They blow up either direction.

[fast4522]

American hospitals have long been required by law ONLY to screen and stabilize any patient.

Nice load of crap, anyone who ends up at the hospital that is going to die unless treated will get whatever they need and that cost will be passed on to everyone if uninsured.

It is a natural occurrence for someone to counter a position so hot as Obamacare, nice try. But it is one of the main drivers in the November election that got the democrat's slaughtered, welcome to the battle that will play out soon.

[elysiantraveller]

If you really believe that then it's a one way thing in the America's too.

Nevermind...

People trying to leave NK get shot. Those that successfully do... their families get shot. Its a matter of a country trying to keep people in not others out.

There is no equivalency here.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Nice load of crap, anyone who ends up at the hospital that is going to die unless treated will get whatever they need and that cost will be passed on to everyone if uninsured.
Well duh! That is what I said. Anyone who might die unless treated gets treated, and yes, it has nothing to do with whether they are legal or illegal. But once they are stabilized, they can be moved to a public facility. Might die -->needs stabilization. Do you see the connection now? Happens where I live all the time. Where I live, hospitals pay into a fund and when they treat someone who is indigent, they get reimbursed out of that fund. Guess how much it costs the taxpayers - zero. And everyone is happy.

It is a natural occurrence for someone to counter a position so hot as Obamacare, nice try. But it is one of the main drivers in the November election that got the democrat's slaughtered, welcome to the battle that will play out soon.
So bringing up that Obamacare prohibits any insurance subsidies for non-legal citizens screws up your fantasy? And saying Obamacare made an effort (not their finest effort by any stretch) to deal with the uninsured was a horrible idea too.

Yeah, you watch the country cheer if the Congress repeals Obamacare and all the provisions that have 80% approval.

What's the first thing a drug dealer does to build a customer base? He gets people hooked. You think all the people who got hooked on Medicare, having their kids covered, free preventative care, insurance subsidies, premium tax credits are just going to roll over like good little sheep? Not when they're hooked.

You think Tom Price's plan to expand tax deductible Health Savings Accounts is going to help your average middle class schmo? Not unless those people have a lot of money left over to throw into one at the end of the month, which they don't. But the wealthy (that includes me) will get a dandy new benefit. How about letting carriers sell across state lines? Even your buddies at the Heritage Foundation suggested it would reduce the availability of insurance and increase costs. That will help the Republicans in 2018.

As I've mentioned on a few occasions. Once you force yourself to think about things beyond the simple campaign slogans and platitudes, it's a little more complex than just repealing the ACA. Of course, nobody actually expected you to have it all figured out before pulling the level.

Imagine you have one grocery store in town and that store decides to close. Now if you had another grocery store ready to take its place, you could probably deal with it pretty well. But if there wasn't another grocery store, the rich people would just drive to the next town over, but the not so rich might not have the extra money to spend getting there and back. Unless the Republicans come up with a plan that (1) isn't more tax welfare for the wealthy, (2) doesn't leave people who had coverage yesterday in the lurch, (3) doesn't kill the provisions people got hooked on and (4) doesn't cost even more than the ACA.

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln

[Clocker]

There is no equivalency here.

Also the DMZ is 160 miles, enforced by a major military force. The US border is 2000 miles enforced by a woefully inadequate police force.

P.S. There is no way to really put a number on it, but I have seen various estimates that 40% to 60% of illegals in this country entered legally and overstayed their visas. I don't hear anyone addressing this issue.

Has anyone proposed a comprehensive crack-down on employers, which would address both problems? Could such a program be funded by fines on employers?

[fast4522]

We will see in real time what shakes out, nothing you or I post will make any difference at all. I think it is a fair bet that there has to be winners and losers in this fight. If the winners are jobs, jobs, jobs, I am more than cool with that. Anytime socialism is expanded jobs and opportunity are the loser. You can not sell me on mandating young people pay for people who did not take care of their body's. In my logic no tax can ever be good.

[Tom]

Has anyone proposed a comprehensive crack-down on employers, which would address both problems? Could such a program be funded by fines on employers?

I have been.
Not only fines, but we confiscate business that hire illegals. just like confiscate cars from dug dealers.

[Greyfox]

Nevermind...

People trying to leave NK get shot. ...
There is no equivalency here.


If you want to walk across the DMZ from South Korea to North Korea, be our guest.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

This has been discussed and wouldn't work a multitude of reasons.

Eh.

I say we give it a whirl.

Can't be worse than Obamacare.

[barahona44]

The thread is not about building the wall but getting Mexico to pay for it.And that simply isn't going to happen.Whatever Mexican political party agrees to this will be dead for the next 20 years.Mexico will devolp an "us vs. them" attitude and that's a country whose people are used to doing without.
Dig deep taxpayers because that wall will cost a lot more than 10 billion.And please name the last large scale government project that came in on time and on budget.

Here's one estimate from MIT about the cost.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602494/bad-math-props-up-Trumps-border-wall/

[chadk66]

in reality it doesn't matter if Mexico pays for it or not. It would be money well spent by us. They cost us billions a year and we need to stop it.

[zico20]

The thread is not about building the wall but getting Mexico to pay for it.And that simply isn't going to happen.Whatever Mexican political party agrees to this will be dead for the next 20 years.Mexico will devolp an "us vs. them" attitude and that's a country whose people are used to doing without.
Dig deep taxpayers because that wall will cost a lot more than 10 billion.And please name the last large scale government project that came in on time and on budget.

Here's one estimate from MIT about the cost.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602494/bad-math-props-up-Trumps-border-wall/

It will more than pay for itself in a few short years. Not to mention all the drugs that will be halted.

[woodtoo]

I don't comprehend why some people are ok with allowing illegal immigration unless there is something in it for them, other wise it makes no sense to spend of billions of tax yearly when it could be spent on poor citizens lives. Not to mention the crime and drugs unless your a drug dealer.

[chadk66]

It boggles my mind also

[classhandicapper]

I don't comprehend why some people are ok with allowing illegal immigration unless there is something in it for them, other wise it makes no sense to spend of billions of tax yearly when it could be spent on poor citizens lives. Not to mention the crime and drugs unless your a drug dealer.

Businesses and people that employ cheaper illegal labor are for it.

Democrats that see illegal immigrants as future voters for them are for it.

Weak people that have been brainwashed by the left into thinking that if they are not in favor of illegal immigration that automatically means they are hateful, bigots, racists, white nationalists etc.. are for it.

Some long term multi generational thinkers that think it will be favorable over the very long term are in favor of it.

Conservatives that are thinking about current budgets, current resources, the rule of law, short to medium term politics etc.. are not in favor of it.

[Actor]

And please name the last large scale government project that came in on time and on budget.Project Apollo?

[PaceAdvantage]

the world is lol at us. everybody tweeting like schoolchildren, makes me sick.
Russia ready to occupy the white house, Don King. I sick to my stomachIf you're sick, that means things are moving in the right direction in the world. You're my "canary in the coal mine."

Thanks for the update! :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

thinking Big Daddy has a Benz for you prepare for a Kia But he'll speak of it like it's a Benz.You're getting confused. That was Obama's shtick.

[woodtoo]

This should help pay for the wall. Ford cancels 1.6 billion dollar plant in Mexico, will expand in Michigan.
#winning

[Actor]

Who pays for the wall is moot because it's simply not going to be built. It won't be built because congress is not going to put any bill on Trump's desk authorizing it. That's my prediction. Time will tell if I'm right.

[chadk66]

Who pays for the wall is moot because it's simply not going to be built. It won't be built because congress is not going to put any bill on Trump's desk authorizing it. That's my prediction. Time will tell if I'm right.you do realize there is already a law on the books to build it right?

[Actor]

you do realize there is already a law on the books to build it right?You mean the Secure Fence Act of 2006? Correct me if I'm wrong but Congress has yet to fully fund that. Plus I think Trump wants more than that. I don't think Congress will give it to him.

[ElKabong]

You mean the Secure Fence Act of 2006? Correct me if I'm wrong but Congress has yet to fully fund that. Plus I think Trump wants more than that. I don't think Congress will give it to him.

There's a fencing company thirty miles south of Dallas that took it in the shorts big time when a bill was cut short in that time frame. They were soon bought out by a foreign entity, another local small to midsize American business vaporized.

An El Paso article stands on the wall of their bldg touting the fence on the border....then the plug was pulled, most of the plant employees were out of jobs within two years or so

[chadk66]

You mean the Secure Fence Act of 2006? Correct me if I'm wrong but Congress has yet to fully fund that. Plus I think Trump wants more than that. I don't think Congress will give it to him.exactly. and it will get funded now. And will be changed as needed. Just like the ending of Obamacare that starts today.

[woodtoo]

3% flat tax/fee on money transfers to Mexico which are estimated at 120 $
billion annually and Mexico pays.

[Tom]

I don't think we can put much faith in the GOP congress - they are proven losers and liars, and you won't find two ball in either house or senate.

[Clocker]

3% flat tax/fee on money transfers to Mexico which are estimated at 120 $
billion annually and Mexico pays.

No, Mexico doesn't pay. Poor workers, who may or may not be in this country legally, and their families pay.

And under current law (Bank Secrecy Act and Anti-Money Laundering regulations) money transfer agents must verify ID for transfers of $3000 or more at one time. Anyone think Congress will drop that limit to a couple hundred bucks? Anyone doubt companies like Western Union would take it to court? And win?

[elysiantraveller]

No, Mexico doesn't pay. Poor workers, who may or may not be in this country legally, and their families pay.

And under current law (Bank Secrecy Act and Anti-Money Laundering regulations) money transfer agents must verify ID for transfers of $3000 or more at one time. Anyone think Congress will drop that limit to a couple hundred bucks? Anyone doubt companies like Western Union would take it to court? And win?

I have argued this... ad nauseam... in this thread.

Doesn't matter... Meanwhile:

We pay now... Mexico Pays later (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/)

[reckless]

Mexico already paid for some of the wall when the Ford Motor Company said they were not going to build there and invest in plants and jobs in Michigan this past week.

Toyota Motor will probably announce some new manufacturing arrangement too, someday in the future, as will General Motors, IBM, and a few others.

Many of the free-trade intellectuals never get it but corporations are feckless and cowardly, just like Republicans... they buckle like a cheap umbrella when confronted by a strong and smart opponent, which in this case, it's President Donald Trump.

[zico20]

I have argued this... ad nauseam... in this thread.

Doesn't matter... Meanwhile:

We pay now... Mexico Pays later (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/)

I don't give a damn who pays for the wall as long as it gets built.

[elysiantraveller]

Mexico already paid for some of the wall when the Ford Motor Company said they were not going to build there and invest in plants and jobs in Michigan this past week.

This has nothing to do with Mexico. Those 700 jobs were never going to Mexico. Neither was that investment.

This is what the conservative media is selling you. Small car production is still going to Mexico. Flat Rock is being re-purposed.

What really happened:

Ford decided to not build a factory in Mexico because small car demand is down so they simply moved it to their other factory in Mexico.

Ford decided to expand the Flat Rock facility to run two of their new electric vehicle lines.

These decisions aren't and weren't ever related.

[Clocker]

I have argued this... ad nauseam... in this thread.

Doesn't matter... Meanwhile:

We pay now... Mexico Pays later (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/)

"Okay, Senor Trump, you build it now and we will pay you for it later. We promise." :D

Last I heard, the wall is now part wall and part fence and part stronger border security. And leaks out of the Trump organization refer to it as a metaphorical wall.

Apparently, Trump intends to get Mexico to pay for the wall as part of a renegotiated NAFTA. So all he has to do is get Congress to approve the money now, get Mexico to agree to redo NAFTA, and get Congress to approve a new and improved NAFTA.

[reckless]

This has nothing to do with Mexico. Those 700 jobs were never going to Mexico. Neither was that investment.

This is what the conservative media is selling you. Small car production is still going to Mexico. Flat Rock is being re-purposed.

What really happened:

Ford decided to not build a factory in Mexico because small car demand is down so they simply moved it to their other factory in Mexico.

Ford decided to expand the Flat Rock facility to run two of their new electric vehicle lines.

These decisions aren't and weren't ever related.

All what you just said I don't disagree. But maybe you should send your post to the Ford CEO who was on all the business shows these past few days saying things a wee bit differently. And, he made it a point to say this decision was in fact and in part based on what Trump said. I heard it myself.

What I generally do disagree with -- and this isn't aimed at you or anyone else on here -- is the 'Mexico will pay for the wall' baloney. Yes, to his discredit, Trump used it as a campaign slogan, so to speak, but it really is irrelevant who pays for the wall.

If the US taxpayer pays for the wall -- and we should pay for the wall -- then no one should or will argue one bit. Yes, the anti-Trump bashers will make it a big deal and a loss for Trump, but no one in their right mind cares what the anti-Trumpsters think anyway.

[Clocker]

Mexico already paid for some of the wall when the Ford Motor Company said they were not going to build there and invest in plants and jobs in Michigan this past week.

How does that pay for the wall?



Many of the free-trade intellectuals never get it but corporations are feckless and cowardly, just like Republicans... they buckle like a cheap umbrella when confronted by a strong and smart opponent, which in this case, it's President Donald Trump.

No, most corporations know that there is really no such thing as a free market, and they know how to make the best of it for their company. "Free-trade intellectuals" know that too, but argue that the freer, the better.

The details of the Ford deal are not yet clear, but the details of the Carrier/UTX deal are known. Carrier/UTX ate Trump's lunch, given the restrictions of the real market they were dealing with.

Carrier is a very small part of UTX, and good will with the feds, especially in regards to the UTX defense contracts, was the paramount concern. UTX won that issue hands down at little cost to themselves.

Carrier was planning to move some 2000-2200 jobs to Mexico. Last I saw, Trump "saved" 720 of them. In return, in addition to the UTX good will, Carrier got $7 million from Indiana. Carrier immediately announced that they would use that money to automate the plant, killing an untold number of the 720 jobs at some point in the future. Trump did not bat an eye or a tweet at that.

I score that one for the company, given the reality of the semi-free market they faced. And now Trump has put himself in the position of having to deal with every other manufacturer in the country that threatens to move off-shore.

[Clocker]

If the US taxpayer pays for the wall -- and we should pay for the wall -- then no one should or will argue one bit. Yes, the anti-Trump bashers will make it a big deal and a loss for Trump, but no one in their right mind cares what the anti-Trumpsters think anyway.

It won't get built.

--It's ineffective. Half of illegals come in legally and overstay their visas. How many of the rest will it stop? How soon before people find a way around it?

--Congress isn't going to pay for it. Even if the House passes it, the bleeding hearts in the Senate will kill it.

--Even if Congress funded it, it would die the death of a thousand cuts in the courts. Land owners would fight against the government taking the private land needed. Tree-huggers would file endless challenges regarding environmental impact. Embedded Democrats in the EPA would fight a guerrilla war against it like WWII Japanese soldiers on Pacific islands long after the surrender. Imagine what California alone would do to stop it.

[reckless]

It won't get built.

--It's ineffective. Half of illegals come in legally and overstay their visas. How many of the rest will it stop? How soon before people find a way around it?

--Congress isn't going to pay for it. Even if the House passes it, the bleeding hearts in the Senate will kill it.

--Even if Congress funded it, it would die the death of a thousand cuts in the courts. Land owners would fight against the government taking the private land needed. Tree-huggers would file endless challenges regarding environmental impact. Embedded Democrats in the EPA would fight a guerrilla war against it like WWII Japanese soldiers on Pacific islands long after the surrender. Imagine what California alone would do to stop it.

Bring it on.

I hope every senator, representative, governor, mayor, actors and actresses in Hollywood, come up and tell us what should be done, and what should not be done about building a wall. Let it all hang out.

This 'wall' is a symbol of the sovereignty and future of this country. It is in our US Constitution that our national government secure our borders and protect its citizens. And it will be protected.

This past 2016 election could very well be the last peaceful election in our lifetime because if border security is ignored, especially because of tricks by the Senate, the House, the lawyers, the scholars at Harvard, and the dopes and bimbos on TV made it so, the citizens and patriots of this country will have a different say. And it won't be pretty.

Just let 'war hero' John McCain, who has lied to his citizens in Arizona for decades about national and border security, tell us we are a better country with illegals flooding the USA.

Just let stupid phony 'conservatives' like Paul Ryan and Lindsay Graham tell us they are fiscally responsible and we cannot 'afford' to secure our country, yet pass bills to pay for illegal and dangerous migrants, and look for ways to start wars in the Middle East and against Russia. It will not happen, these people have been exposed through and through, I assure you.

You may think and wish that our borders remain wide open, but I again assure you there are many more patriots and citizens throughout this country who are much different about this than you.

[Clocker]

You may think and wish that our borders remain wide open, but I again assure you there are many more patriots and citizens throughout this country who are much different about this than you.

Here we go, playing the patriot blame game and grossly distorting the words of others. Where did I say that I am in favor of open borders?

I am pointing out reality. Unlimited illegal immigration is bad for the country. What I am saying, and the points that you are missing or refusing to address, are:

1. the wall is not going to stop the problem; and

2. the wall is not going to get built because of the reality of the political process.

I have shown just the tip of the iceberg here, and you ignore it and throw up a straw man argument about open borders. How about addressing what I actually said.

[elysiantraveller]

Here we go, playing the patriot blame game and grossly distorting the words of others. Where did I say that I am in favor of open borders?

I am pointing out reality. Unlimited illegal immigration is bad for the country. What I am saying, and the points that you are missing or refusing to address, are:

1. the wall is not going to stop the problem; and

2. the wall is not going to get built because of the reality of the political process.

I have shown just the tip of the iceberg here, and you ignore it and throw up a straw man argument about open borders. How about addressing what I actually said.

Trump is also coming in to office with significantly less political capital than Obama in 2008. Why would you spend it on a $10 Billion wall? :confused:

In terms of furthering an agenda that would be moronic. Surely there are more important things to the American people in his eyes.

[woodtoo]

Keeping out criminal illegals who commit heinous crimes and drugs that destroy whole communities may seem insignificant and unimportant to you
( :bang: ) but to other citizens it means a hell of a lot, (enough to get Trump elected over crooked Hillary)
What say you is more important than protecting American citizens?

[Clocker]

Keeping out criminal illegals who commit heinous crimes and drugs that destroy whole communities may seem insignificant and unimportant to you
( :bang: ) but to other citizens it means a hell of a lot, (enough to get Trump elected over crooked Hillary)
What say you is more important than protecting American citizens?

So anyone that thinks that the wall is a bad idea is opposed to protecting American citizens from crime?

This is the same irrational argument the Democrats used against opponents of ObamaCare. According to the moonbats, anyone opposed to ObamaCare was opposed to health care for poor people.

Some people opposed ObamaCare because they thought that it was a very expensive, very inefficient way to provide health care to anyone, and that there were better ways.

Some of us think that the wall is a very expensive, very ineffective method to protect the country, and that there are better ways to do it. Do you really believe that the wall is the only possible way to protect Americans? Or do you just take it on faith that because it is the only way Trump has considered, it must be the only right way and everyone else is wrong.

[Tom]

Nothing is more important than our sovereignty.

[chadk66]

It will be built in some way, shape or form. Mexico will pay for it in some way, shape or form. I don't care who pays for it actually. It's money well spent if we pay for it. The cost of illegals is a million times more than the wall costs. The only people that are against the wall are people that feel they have something to gain by illegals being here. The law is already on the books that allows/approves the construction of the wall. The funding will be easy for Trump to come up with if needed. he will own congress because he is extremely smart and has shown the people so far that he is working for them.

[highnote]

Nothing is more important than our sovereignty.

In that case it might be better to send all manufacturing to mexico. That way Mexicans won't come to the U.S. to look for jobs. :D

If all manufacturing jobs were in Mexico there would even be a need for a wall. Think of all the taxpayer money that would be saved.

[Clocker]

The only people that are against the wall are people that feel they have something to gain by illegals being here.

So you say that no one really opposes the wall because they think that there are better, more effective ways of fixing the immigration problem. People who claim to believe that there are better ways are either lying or delusional?

Why does that remind me so much of the Dem position on ObamaCare? The only people against ObamaCare were those who didn't care if poor people were "dying in the streets". :rolleyes:

[Dahoss9698]

It will be built in some way, shape or form. Mexico will pay for it in some way, shape or form. I don't care who pays for it actually. It's money well spent if we pay for it. The cost of illegals is a million times more than the wall costs. The only people that are against the wall are people that feel they have something to gain by illegals being here. The law is already on the books that allows/approves the construction of the wall. The funding will be easy for Trump to come up with if needed. he will own congress because he is extremely smart and has shown the people so far that he is working for them.
Wow....you believe all this?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[thaskalos]

It will be built in some way, shape or form. Mexico will pay for it in some way, shape or form. I don't care who pays for it actually. It's money well spent if we pay for it. The cost of illegals is a million times more than the wall costs. The only people that are against the wall are people that feel they have something to gain by illegals being here. The law is already on the books that allows/approves the construction of the wall. The funding will be easy for Trump to come up with if needed. he will own congress because he is extremely smart and has shown the people so far that he is working for them.

Excellent!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[fast4522]

Wow....you believe all this?

I will tell you what I think:


Barack Hussein Obama was a master at class warfare for the establishment, that being said Donald J. Trump was a master wedge driver between the establishment and and the classes. Currently we have 170 million plus getting health insurance from employment, all Trump has to do is repeal Obama care and turn that 170 million into 200 + million. Estimates are 95 million not participating in the workplace, getting rid of a boatload of illegals and locking down the border will virtually lock in a second term for Trump plus hurt many more establishment types. This trend will leave many lefty's who are in their golden years never seeing liberal progressives in power for the rest of what life they have left and they know it now. So project or what ever you call it that you like, for what it is worth we all know those projections are nothing but shit.

[Dahoss9698]

I will tell you what I think:


Barack Hussein Obama was a master at class warfare for the establishment, that being said Donald J. Trump was a master wedge driver between the establishment and and the classes. Currently we have 170 million plus getting health insurance from employment, all Trump has to do is repeal Obama care and turn that 170 million into 200 + million. Estimates are 95 million not participating in the workplace, getting rid of a boatload of illegals and locking down the border will virtually lock in a second term for Trump plus hurt many more establishment types. This trend will leave many lefty's who are in their golden years never seeing liberal progressives in power for the rest of what life they have left and they know it now. So project or what ever you call it that you like, for what it is worth we all know those projections are nothing but shit.
I just think it's foolish to believe everything politicians tell us. I know, I know, Trump isn't a politician.

He's a terrific salesman and he's very good at selling himself. Anyone believing he's going to carry out most of his crackpot ideas from the campaign trail got sold a lemon.

Call the BBB. :lol:

[Clocker]

I just think it's foolish to believe everything politicians tell us. I know, I know, Trump isn't a politician.

He's a terrific salesman and he's very good at selling himself. Anyone believing he's going to carry out most of his crackpot ideas from the campaign trail got sold a lemon.

Call the BBB. :lol:

You haven't tried the Trump Kool Aid yet? It's in the orange pitcher, and there's plenty to go around. It's YUGE.

[chadk66]

I haven't seen a single thing presented that would do anything compared to the fence. Part of it is up already. It's just a matter of completing a law that is on the books. I happened to hear a financial guru on one of the morning talk shows that made a claim that they could easily pay for the wall with existing funds by just doing some changes to the accounting. Not sure what he was getting at but he obviously knew something that the rest of us don't. I'd be all for ending funding to planned parenthood and using it towards the wall. The demand for planned parenthood would drop significantly just because of that.

[Clocker]

I happened to hear a financial guru on one of the morning talk shows that made a claim that they could easily pay for the wall with existing funds by just doing some changes to the accounting. Not sure what he was getting at but he obviously knew something that the rest of us don't.

Trump says the wall would cost $10-12 billion. Independent studies I have seen by universities and private sector engineers generally put it around $25 billion. And we all know about creeping cost growth in federal contracts, especially as the feds underestimate the scope to begin with and make changes along the way.

So some anonymous "guru" says that there is $25 billion hiding in the budget, ripe for the picking via accounting tricks? If there was $25 hiding in the budget, some devious member of Congress would have already nabbed it as pork for his district or expenses for his office.

Sounds like, dare I say, false news. :faint:

[elysiantraveller]

I haven't seen a single thing presented that would do anything compared to the fence. Part of it is up already. It's just a matter of completing a law that is on the books. I happened to hear a financial guru on one of the morning talk shows that made a claim that they could easily pay for the wall with existing funds by just doing some changes to the accounting. Not sure what he was getting at but he obviously knew something that the rest of us don't. I'd be all for ending funding to planned parenthood and using it towards the wall. The demand for planned parenthood would drop significantly just because of that.

How about allowing ICE to monitor existing visas and grant them more leeway in expediting the deporting process?

I'm sure after we savage the Mexican economy repealing NAFTA even fewer people will be trying to illegally enter... :lol:

[Tom]

How can he build a wall?
THere is no way he can win the election.





Oh?
Never mind.:blush:

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I will tell you what I think:


Barack Hussein Obama was a master at class warfare for the establishment, that being said Donald J. Trump was a master wedge driver between the establishment and and the classes. Currently we have 170 million plus getting health insurance from employment, all Trump has to do is repeal Obama care and turn that 170 million into 200 + million. Estimates are 95 million not participating in the workplace, getting rid of a boatload of illegals and locking down the border will virtually lock in a second term for Trump plus hurt many more establishment types. This trend will leave many lefty's who are in their golden years never seeing liberal progressives in power for the rest of what life they have left and they know it now. So project or what ever you call it that you like, for what it is worth we all know those projections are nothing but shit.
Be interesting to see how the numbers were generated. If you just look at population numbers, about a third of the population is under 26. About 13% of the population is over 65. That puts the number of people between 27 and 65 at around 170 million. I'm not sure how they would count the number of people covered by employer health insurance/ Are the children under 26 covered by their parent's policy included in the employer covered? You can include a small percentage of the population under 26 and over 65 in the work force, but that doesn't jump the number that much. If 95 million are not participating in the workplace, that would put the unemployment rate near 50%. That's a pretty paltry number of people to support the entire economy.

It doesn't add up to have almost half the population under 26 and over 65 (145 million), and a third of the population not participating in the workforce, a third of the population earning all the money, while at the same time having 170 million people covered by employer based insurance.

Trump hasn't even taken office yet and you're already planning for the second term. A long way to go before you get to put that one in the plus column.

Let me give you a statistic from what surely must be a fake news source since it doesn't agree with the repeal Obamacare folks: The Kaiser Health Tracking Poll found 80% of people do not support repeal before replacement.

Another fact. Tom Price wants to steer people into high deductible plans. Meanwhile, Trump has tweeted "Many deductibles are so high, that it is practically useless." It is also the biggest complaint about the policies people an afford. The good news - higher deductibles will lower premiums. The bad news? Overall, unless you don't use health care, you'll probably pay more between the premium and the deductible.

Price also wants to get rid of the "free" routine care included in Obamacare and replace it with tax free health savings plans. That means you'll have to take money out of your salary to pay for routine services (like mammograms, yearly physical) that you previously didn't have to pay for. Premium may be going down.

The ACA also prohibited lifetime maximums for medical care. Another cut in premiums maybe.

It should be pretty clear you can't reduce premiums while increasing coverage. More coverage = higher prices. That was what Obamacare did and what a lot of the gripes were about.

I mentioned something about reality earlier. Thinking you can have lower prices, better care, more choice, and no mandates has been the Republican mantra since the passage of Obamacare. It is not reality and it never was.

[fast4522]

Repeal will be like a knife in the middle of the night, it will occur because we can not afford the ACA. New jobs with health care benefits can only occur with its repeal. Everything else is something we can argue about after the ACA's demise, the stories floating around now might have nothing to do with reality.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Repeal will be like a knife in the middle of the night, it will occur because we can not afford the ACA. New jobs with health care benefits can only occur with its repeal. Everything else is something we can argue about after the ACA's demise, the stories floating around now might have nothing to do with reality.
They tried to kill the House Ethics Committee in the middle of the night. By 7 a.m. the word was out and by noon the amendment killing the Committee was out of the House rules. Not going to happen twice.

We'll know in six months who is right.

[fast4522]

They tried to kill the House Ethics Committee in the middle of the night. By 7 a.m. the word was out and by noon the amendment killing the Committee was out of the House rules. Not going to happen twice.

We'll know in six months who is right.

Your not giving credit to the President Elect, he railed against that Ethics Committee vote. The ACS will go out the same way it came in, only there will be some who abandon the democrats on that vote.

[chadk66]

Trump says the wall would cost $10-12 billion. Independent studies I have seen by universities and private sector engineers generally put it around $25 billion. And we all know about creeping cost growth in federal contracts, especially as the feds underestimate the scope to begin with and make changes along the way.

So some anonymous "guru" says that there is $25 billion hiding in the budget, ripe for the picking via accounting tricks? If there was $25 hiding in the budget, some devious member of Congress would have already nabbed it as pork for his district or expenses for his office.

Sounds like, dare I say, false news. :faint:you do understand the negotiating prowess of old Mr. Trump?

[chadk66]

How about allowing ICE to monitor existing visas and grant them more leeway in expediting the deporting process?

I'm sure after we savage the Mexican economy repealing NAFTA even fewer people will be trying to illegally enter... :lol:I'm all for rounding em up and sending em back. And there will be a lot of that, it's all part of building the wall. But just rounding em up and sending em back with no wall would be pissing money down your leg.

[chadk66]

Just listened to another congressman ten minutes ago. Sounds like it's going bye bye immediately and then work on a replacement. There will be something in place that will work during this gap. They have the votes and everyone is on board it appears.

[Tom]

The Mexican economy is not our problem.
Maybe if they had a government that was not 200% corrupt and incompetent it would be better.

[Dahoss9698]

you do understand the negotiating prowess of old Mr. Trump?
That doesn't even make sense. Do you really have no retort and just think because he's a good salesman he can make 20 or so BILLION appear?

Wow you really do buy it all. He got you hook, line and sinker.

[zico20]

That doesn't even make sense. Do you really have no retort and just think because he's a good salesman he can make 20 or so BILLION appear?

Wow you really do buy it all. He got you hook, line and sinker.

No, but if he is a really, really good salesman he can make 12 million disappear. :D

[Clocker]

you do understand the negotiating prowess of old Mr. Trump?

Yeah, Carrier wanted to ship 2000+ jobs to Mexico and he talked them into keeping some 700 here. Then he and Pence gave Carrier $7 million to automate the US plant so they could kill off a lot more of those remaining jobs.

As an unspoken part of the deal, Carrier of Mexico is now bullet proof against new tariffs for the next 4 years, and Carrier parent company UTX, which has billions in federal defense contracts, is bullet proof against Midnight Madness Trump Tweets for the next 4 years. UTX would have given away a lot more just for that last little part of the deal.

And before even taking office, Trump has established a precedent of appeasement and corporate welfare to any little company that threatens to leave the country.

[Tom]

No, but if he is a really, really good salesman he can make 12 million disappear. :D

Now that is funny! :lol:

[chadk66]

I don't give a rats ass if you guys believe it's going to be built or not. And I don't give a rats ass how it's paid for either.

[kingfin66]

I don't give a rats ass if you guys believe it's going to be built or not. And I don't give a rats ass how it's paid for either.

You should, especially the second part.

[elysiantraveller]

I don't give a rats ass if you guys believe it's going to be built or not. And I don't give a rats ass how it's paid for either.

I just view "The Wall" much more as a political stunt than a real world solution...

You guys all think its great though.

[woodtoo]

You should, especially the second part.
Its rock science not rocket science. Whatever the costs savings in welfare, housing criminals etc. will more than make up for it.

[classhandicapper]

I just view "The Wall" much more as a political stunt than a real world solution...

You guys all think its great though.

I have mixed feelings about the wall, but I feel certain a country can't have wide open borders and also provide a generous social safety net to all the people there without creating problems. People will migrate to wherever they can get the best deal for themselves and their family. That includes what they can get for free, not just better work opportunities. I don't care what the economists say about the long term (notice that leftist economists never want to talk about the long term implications of spending and debt but are quick to point out the long term benefits of immigration), immigration puts downward pressure on wages, has huge short term costs to government on a net basis, and makes it tougher on US citizens with whatever skills the immigrants have.

To the extent that a wall will reduce illegal immigration, I would be in favor if it as long as we are getting a good bang for the buck of building it.

The word "nationalism" has a lot of negative connotations to it, but fundamentally it means putting the US and US citizens first. I'm not against that.

[elysiantraveller]

I have mixed feelings about the wall...

You could've just stopped right there and ended with... "because I have a brain and realize there are much more serious things to address in regards to illegal immigration than a 'Great Wall of America....'"

[burnsy]

I don't give a rats ass if you guys believe it's going to be built or not. And I don't give a rats ass how it's paid for either.

Of course you don't. That's part of the problem, neither "monkey side" cares about how we pay for ANY of their crap. The 7 wars at once, the ridiculous foreign aid that just helps these jackasses kill each other, the corporate welfare, regular welfare, the 1 million prisoners that make us look like Commies. Obama care. The country is made up of too many partisan suckers. When either one of them lies to your face.....you still think shit tastes good...... :lol:

They'll never learn... :cool:

One that is a conservative ( they don't conserve jack shit) or a liberal(so liberal they tell you how to live a life). I think the word "Sucker" just about covers it.........Democrats and Republicans all........suckers...lol.

weapons, keep your doctor, Mexico is paying...lol....when does anyone else ever, I mean ever pay????????Fools!

PS if the Govt says 25 billion multiply that by 4.... :lol: :) :cool:

[chadk66]

You could've just stopped right there and ended with... "because I have a brain and realize there are much more serious things to address in regards to illegal immigration than a 'Great Wall of America....'"Imagine doing numerous things including the wall :lol:

[kingfin66]

Its rock science not rocket science. Whatever the costs savings in welfare, housing criminals etc. will more than make up for it.

I'm all for secure borders, but I would like you to explain to me how building a wall will result in cost savings for welfare, housing, criminals, etc. Undocumented aliens are not, and have not been for a long time, eligible for welfare, food, assistance, etc. Now I am not so naive to believe that fraud does not exist to some degree. I am also aware that there are undocumented aliens in our justice system, and undocumented children in our schools. However, to say that building a wall will more than offset those costs is fantasy.

By the way, the chances of a wall being built are two: Slim and none. We will see soon enough that this, and many other things Trump said were nothing more than campaign rhetoric.

[fast4522]

You guys need to understand our next Chief Executive will not act like some commie who will bend to a bunch of compromised socialists, if he says 15% across the board it means billions off your beloved programs. Donald J. Trump is going to change the world. Most of you think the events to come can be shaped to suit your needs, nothing could be father from the truth because you could not stop the primary or the general election. A manifestation that only occurs every couple of hundred years that will have to run its course, in two years everything and anyone that stands in this movements way will be flattened out.

[zico20]

I'm all for secure borders, but I would like you to explain to me how building a wall will result in cost savings for welfare, housing, criminals, etc. Undocumented aliens are not, and have not been for a long time, eligible for welfare, food, assistance, etc. Now I am not so naive to believe that fraud does not exist to some degree. I am also aware that there are undocumented aliens in our justice system, and undocumented children in our schools. However, to say that building a wall will more than offset those costs is fantasy.

By the way, the chances of a wall being built are two: Slim and none. We will see soon enough that this, and many other things Trump said were nothing more than campaign rhetoric.

How about this for you. Building the wall will provide jobs, which in turn will bring in more tax dollars through federal income taxes. Is this not what Democrats call investing in infrastructure projects. The stimulus package was full of pork products. However, none of those projects were aimed at preventing nefarious elements from slithering across the border, so they oppose this stimulus project.

[fast4522]

Look at it this way, we as a country were on the wrong path. The lefty's prefer we continue on the wrong path, TFB you lost so your game is so over. Lets borrow some language from the Donald and campaign trail, get them out of here. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dahoss9698]

I don't give a rats ass if you guys believe it's going to be built or not. And I don't give a rats ass how it's paid for either.
I have some ideas on how it could be paid for.

If everyone that wants it built asked the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus for money that should generate enough to pay for it. Or you all could go around shaking trees and collecting the money that falls out.

I'm open to other suggestions but I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it could work.

[Tom]

We could charge you $1 for every thread you infect - we could build a wall up north, too.

[Dahoss9698]

We could charge you $1 for every thread you infect - we could build a wall up north, too.
Wouldn't that apply more to the guy with 78,000 posts?

[Tom]

That all you got?
Repeating yourself?

:lol::lol::lol: You aren't even a good troll.

Just a drive-by A**Hat

[Dahoss9698]

What more needs to be said Baby Huey?

[ElKabong]

I have some ideas on how it could be paid for.

If everyone that wants it built asked the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus for money that should generate enough to pay for it. Or you all could go around shaking trees and collecting the money that falls out.

I'm open to other suggestions but I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it could work.

Easy. Trump will have putin siphon all the funds electronically from the clinton foundation, then deposit the stash in the Build That Wall fund....

Hell we screwed her over before and america bought that shit hook line and sinker, right? If putin and trump are that effin evil this should be a cake walk. If you hand wringing conspiracy worry warts really belive putin rigged our election then the above scenario will make perfect sense to you....

We're coming after the EPA next. A new coal storage facility will be built on cape cod. Putin and trump will build a casino next door. It'll be Yuge. Go post this on dem underground and other left wing websites... hurry!

[Tom]

What more needs to be said Baby Huey?

Oh, that won't stop you.
Troll away, Skippy.

[Dahoss9698]

Easy. Trump will have putin siphon all the funds electronically from the clinton foundation, then deposit the stash in the Build That Wall fund....

Hell we screwed her over before and america bought that shit hook line and sinker, right? If putin and trump are that effin evil this should be a cake walk. If you hand wringing conspiracy worry warts really belive putin rigged our election then the above scenario will make perfect sense to you....

We're coming after the EPA next. A new coal storage facility will be built on cape cod. Putin and trump will build a casino next door. It'll be Yuge. Go post this on dem underground and other left wing websites... hurry!
You mad

[ElKabong]

You mad

Me happy

Hillary lose

World better

[Tom]

Me happy

Hillary lose

World better

Sharp post!
Me like. :lol::lol:

[Dahoss9698]

Me happy

Hillary lose

World better
Nah, you put a bunch of words in my mouth based on absolutely nothing. You're definitely mad about something.

Was it the Santa Claus talk?

[NJ Stinks]

I have some ideas on how it could be paid for.

If everyone that wants it built asked the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus for money that should generate enough to pay for it. Or you all could go around shaking trees and collecting the money that falls out.

I'm open to other suggestions but I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and I think it could work.


Hilarious! :ThmbUp:

[ElKabong]

Nah, you put a bunch of words in my mouth based on absolutely nothing. You're definitely mad about something.

Was it the Santa Claus talk?

It was the election results
No wait, that was awesome

It's the lefties whining and crying about trumps every move
Hmm, that's some good schadenfraude shit going on, there

It's because Charlie strong was fired after three consecutive losing seasons
Goodness sakes, I threw a party on that one

Life's good, bubba. I'm smiling ear to ear, day after day.

P.s... To borrow a phrase from dems eight years ago..."he's smarter than you"
Just remember that :)

[Dahoss9698]

It was the election results
No wait, that was awesome

It's the lefties whining and crying about trumps every move
Hmm, that's some good schadenfraude shit going on, there

It's because Charlie strong was fired after three consecutive losing seasons
Goodness sakes, I threw a party on that one

Life's good, bubba. I'm smiling ear to ear, day after day.

P.s... To borrow a phrase from dems eight years ago..."he's smarter than you"
Just remember that :)
I keep hearing stuff like this anytime someone wants to know where the money for this wall is going to come from.

So far all I've heard is he's smart, he's a good negotiator, etc.

No real world answers. I get it, there really is nothing to say. Its not going to happen and it'll be another in the long line of lies you were fed during the election.

I actually hope Dump is very successful. But I imagine his 4 years will be more about unfulfilled campaign promises, which means it'll be VERY interesting around here.

[pondman]

What about a moat? Make Mexico pay for the water to fill it.

I just came back from an Ag tour in Mexico. Did you know Mexico actually has water storage north of it's border? In the US. The Colorado actually swing into Mexico, so they can dump lead and chemicals into the River, and then it swings back into California. That's why the water in Los Angeles has a battery taste.

We need a President with Balls like Teddy Roosevelt to rough ride into Mexico and hang a few drug lords.

[reckless]

Looks like the soon-to-be-irrelevant Barry Obama is once again giving the eff-you to the American people.

I ask, who is paying for 'The Wall' Obama is building around his house?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/06/report-obama-is-building-a-wall-in-front-of-his-new-house-in-washington/

[Dahoss9698]

Looks like the soon-to-be-irrelevant Barry Obama is once again giving the eff-you to the American people.

I ask, who is paying for 'The Wall' Obama is building around his house?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/06/report-obama-is-building-a-wall-in-front-of-his-new-house-in-washington/
How is this an f you to the American people?

Please take a deep breath before you post and try and make some sense.

[Grits]

Looks like the soon-to-be-irrelevant Barry Obama is once again giving the eff-you to the American people.

I ask, who is paying for 'The Wall' Obama is building around his house?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/06/report-obama-is-building-a-wall-in-front-of-his-new-house-in-washington/

The house is being leased and these improvements are necessary. Would they not be done for any outgoing president. I'm sorry that irritates you, Reckless, and you feel we're effed again.

If you look at all the photos, you'll notice--In addition, a secret service house has been added to one front corner of the home, along with an upgraded security system as noted in the piece. Too, the "brick wall" as you call it is being laid on an already existing brick retaining wall? This isn't usually done. Brick pillars, a few feet apart, have been constructed so far. This could possibly indicate that wrought iron may be placed between the pillars, not solid brick. Also, the pillars will likely have decorative lanterns installed atop each. Adding more light for security.

I could be wrong on the finished wall....but you don't know jack about quality construction. :lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Donald J. Trump is going to change the world. ...

:lol: :lol:

Pretty funny now how much crap everyone gave the liberals (I mean commie socialist bastards) for their irrational idolatry of a guy that was selling hope and change.

[thaskalos]

:lol: :lol:

Pretty funny now how much crap everyone gave the liberals (I mean commie socialist bastards) for their irrational idolatry of a guy that was selling hope and change.

We never learn...

[fast4522]

:lol: :lol:

Pretty funny now how much crap everyone gave the liberals (I mean commie socialist bastards) for their irrational idolatry of a guy that was selling hope and change.

Got to make a bet with ya, currently we have 22 former military service men and women committing suicide every single day. The change will come that significantly less former military service men and women will be doing that, but significantly more commie socialist bastards will be committing suicide.
News for you the crap everyone gives the liberals has only started with folks like yourself pissing against the trend.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Got to make a bet with ya, currently we have 22 former military service men and women committing suicide every single day. The change will come that significantly less former military service men and women will be doing that, but significantly more commie socialist bastards will be committing suicide.

What is the bet?

[fast4522]

What is the bet?

Heck, you will not duck it. Bring it up when things improve.

[Dahoss9698]

Got to make a bet with ya, currently we have 22 former military service men and women committing suicide every single day. The change will come that significantly less former military service men and women will be doing that, but significantly more commie socialist bastards will be committing suicide.
News for you the crap everyone gives the liberals has only started with folks like yourself pissing against the trend.
Now I'm really confused. Trump is going to cut down on former military servicemen and women committing suicide?

This is something I actually hope happens, but how is he going to do that?

Also after he does this more liberals are going to start committing suicide? For what reason?

You seem like you know what you're talking about so please enlighten me. Thanks!

[Clocker]

Pretty funny now how much crap everyone gave the liberals (I mean commie socialist bastards) for their irrational idolatry of a guy that was selling hope and change.

And now it's deja vu all over again. :p

At least the last 8 years provide a firm foundation for a belief that we can get through the next 4 in one piece.

[thaskalos]

Now I'm really confused. Trump is going to cut down on former military servicemen and women committing suicide?

This is something I actually hope happens, but how is he going to do that?

Yes...because Trump has endeared himself to our veterans with his pre-election rhetoric. :rolleyes:

[Grits]

Yes...because Trump has endeared himself to our veterans with his pre-election rhetoric. :rolleyes:

And.. he knows more than the Generals. This is his real ace in his pocket. :lol:

[thaskalos]

And.. he knows more than the Generals. This is his real ace in his pocket. :lol:

God help us...

[fast4522]

Now I'm really confused. Trump is going to cut down on former military servicemen and women committing suicide?

This is something I actually hope happens, but how is he going to do that?

We have been at war for too many years, and I am not saying that we won't kick some serious butt during the Trump administration. What I am saying our vets will be treated better, and when we send our very best in to kill it will not be some "Dreams from My Father" rules of engagement. These are my watered down responses until January 20, after that date I expect Donald J. Trump to have a mastery of the office of the Presidency not seen since President Ronald Reagan.

[thaskalos]

And.. he knows more than the Generals. This is his real ace in his pocket. :lol:

He is a freaken GENIUS. :)

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-intelligence-briefings-skip-2016-12

[Dahoss9698]

We have been at war for too many years, and I am not saying that we won't kick some serious butt during the Trump administration. What I am saying our vets will be treated better, and when we send our very best in to kill it will not be some "Dreams from My Father" rules of engagement. These are my watered down responses until January 20, after that date I expect Donald J. Trump to have a mastery of the office of the Presidency not seen since President Ronald Reagan.
I hope for the sake of the country you are right. I'm not going to rain on your parade too much as I actually appreciate the optimism.

I just see a lot of people with their head in the sand when it comes to discussing the logistics of doing a lot if the things Dump said he would during the campaign.

[fast4522]

He is a freaken GENIUS. :)

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-intelligence-briefings-skip-2016-12

Granted the only real qualification to serve as President of the United States is being a good man. But any good man can get eaten up by those who want to strike first or war now. A great man serving as our President will draw upon vast experience in being able to get results with the correct leverage and the ability to find such leverage when all the so called experts think they can sway the good man to what they want. I expect good results and many requested resignations on that path to better possible outcomes.

[thaskalos]

Granted the only real qualification to serve as President of the United States is being a good man. But any good man can get eaten up by those who want to strike first or war now. A great man serving as our President will draw upon vast experience in being able to get results with the correct leverage and the ability to find such leverage when all the so called experts think they can sway the good man to what they want. I expect good results and many requested resignations on that path to better possible outcomes.

The presidency is like the priesthood. When a "good man" gets in...the "old guard" sits him down and sets him straight...and he ain't a "good man" no more. :)

[fast4522]

The presidency is like the priesthood. When a "good man" gets in...the "old guard" sits him down and sets him straight...and he ain't a "good man" no more. :)

Now I know that I am in a heap of shit with Grits after saying the "good man" comments, but who are you to be a measure of what a good man is. None of us are perfect as good men, but someone who has actually done something instead of being a loser in life. Give it a break Gus, your looking for doom.

[thaskalos]

Now I know that I am in a heap of shit with Grits after saying the "good man" comments, but who are you to be a measure of what a good man is. None of us are perfect as good men, but someone who has actually done something instead of being a loser in life. Give it a break Gus, your looking for doom.

Ahh...is THAT what a "good man" is to you? Someone who is a "winner in life"?

Sorry...but our "good man" definitions clash.

[fast4522]

Ahh...is THAT what a "good man" is to you? Someone who is a "winner in life"?

Sorry...but our "good man" definitions clash.


Definitions clash, you and those who are of a similar mindset lost big time in the last election because how you define things.

[thaskalos]

Definitions clash, you and those who are of a similar mindset lost big time in the last election because how you define things.

I lost nothing in the last election...because I didn't play. We'll see what those with a "similar mindset" as you "won", soon enough.

[Grits]

Now I know that I am in a heap of shit with Grits after saying the "good man" comments, but who are you to be a measure of what a good man is. None of us are perfect as good men, but someone who has actually done something instead of being a loser in life. Give it a break Gus, your looking for doom.

No, Fast, no heap of $@&$. I've known many with far less that are far better men (and women.). Money can only take but so far, particularly when we've used bankruptcy laws to our advantage our entire business career.

I'll be honest, this man has one long road to travel in order to impress me and many others. He could begin this by stopping on his pathetic hissy fits. Along with the name calling. He reminds me of some mewling college coed.

This man has not shown me yet that he's capable of action....only reaction.

Meantime, they just scored again.....ROLL TIDE !!!

[Clocker]

He reminds me of some mewling college coed.



Like them, Trump can't deal with words that offend him, and especially his shaky little self-image. Snowflake college coeds have safe spaces where they have crayons and coloring books and service dogs. The Donald has the manly equivalent, Midnight Madness Trump Tweets to anyone that dares question him.

[fast4522]

Midnight Madness Trump Tweets to anyone that dares question him.

Like it or not, those Tweets have many a elected member of the Congress will fear them. Look for the Presidents Tweets to be a formidable weapons turning up the heat.

[fast4522]

No, Fast, no heap of $@&$. I've known many with far less that are far better men (and women.). Money can only take but so far, particularly when we've used bankruptcy laws to our advantage our entire business career.

I'll be honest, this man has one long road to travel in order to impress me and many others. He could begin this by stopping on his pathetic hissy fits. Along with the name calling. He reminds me of some mewling college coed.

This man has not shown me yet that he's capable of action....only reaction.

Meantime, they just scored again.....ROLL TIDE !!!

You just can't make everybody happy can you? My guess is after taking the oath of office he will not even try, he may by many who note will seem much more Presidential. Those like some here that are plain ridiculous will either just be dismissed or ignored. The press might get the shaft and told that it is a new day and this is how it is going to be (yet to be determined).
If the President Elect played by their rules he would not have won, and just because he has won do not expect him to not go after somebody's jugular vein when he wants blood. I have no reservations whatsoever provided he delivers with the best of outcomes when things get rough.

[PaceAdvantage]

There is so much corruption in Washington DC that it would take probably 2 seconds to come up with enough money to build the wall.

With that said, Trump loves to build things and put his name on it.

Anyone who thinks he won't build a wall is betting against something he has been doing his whole life.

Maybe he won't literally put his name on it, but I wouldn't put it past him. Regardless, it will always be known as the Trump Wall, and that's probably good enough for him...he lives for this shit.

I say it's built, come hell or high water.

[woodtoo]

I don't believe he will renege on his first and foremost campaign promise.
He will build it and Mexico will pay. Anyone have a problem with that? :D

[zico20]

There is so much corruption in Washington DC that it would take probably 2 seconds to come up with enough money to build the wall.

With that said, Trump loves to build things and put his name on it.

Anyone who thinks he won't build a wall is betting against something he has been doing his whole life.

Maybe he won't literally put his name on it, but I wouldn't put it past him. Regardless, it will always be known as the Trump Wall, and that's probably good enough for him...he lives for this shit.

I say it's built, come hell or high water.

Unless of course the next time we get a Democratic president and Congress they vote to tear it down. :bang:

[fast4522]

This has been discussed and wouldn't work a multitude of reasons.

Maybe in 2017 you will outnumber the things that you got wrong in 2016.

[fast4522]

There is so much corruption in Washington DC that it would take probably 2 seconds to come up with enough money to build the wall.

With that said, Trump loves to build things and put his name on it.

Anyone who thinks he won't build a wall is betting against something he has been doing his whole life.

Maybe he won't literally put his name on it, but I wouldn't put it past him. Regardless, it will always be known as the Trump Wall, and that's probably good enough for him...he lives for this shit.

I say it's built, come hell or high water.

Putting all of those hacks wearing the $400 shoes into the unemployment line will a tall order for President Elect Trump.

[classhandicapper]

I think he's going to wind up building some kind of wall covering at least the most active areas. Whether it will be a fence, a literal wall, a combination of fence and wall, or some other structures is kind of irrelevant. The idea would be to create a functional barrier that makes it more difficult to cross illegally, claim he kept his promise, and keep the cost as low as possible. Then he's probably going to make something up to claim that Mexico is actually paying for it indirectly.

[reckless]

Maybe in 2017 you will outnumber the things that you got wrong in 2016.

How could he outnumber all the things he got wrong? :lol:

[reckless]

I don't believe he will renege on his first and foremost campaign promise.
He will build it and Mexico will pay. Anyone have a problem with that? :D

There is no doubt building a wall and controlling illegal immigration were/are the signature issues of Trump's winning presidential campaign. Both will get done by Trump, you can go to the bank on that.

And he won despite the 'experts' on here saying he could not win because he's a TV personality, a blowhard, he tweets, he is a business failure, he's a fraud and a phony and that he simply couldn't win Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan -- even though one PA poster said repeatedly that he will win those states. This brilliant analysis and commentary was ignored, and he was insulted and dismissed as a Trump fanboy, and later, a Trump poodle. :lol:

Now these very same experts and know-it-alls say he'll never build a wall. :confused: Trump's a guy who has built massive construction projects throughout the world ... yet he won't be able to build a wall as promised, according to many of you people. :lol:

The total length of the US-Mexican border is about 1,989 miles or so. Seems like a snap to me but I am sure we'll hear from our PA experts that it isn't a snap at all. And don't forget, if this Wall that Trump builds is only 1,985 miles long, I am sure some guys will say Trump failed -- just like they dismissed the Carrier-Trump deal as a failure because only 722 jobs were saved and not 800 jobs saved as originally reported. :lol: :lol:

[zico20]

I just read that LT. Governor of California Gavin Newsom will use the states environmental laws to slow or stop the building of the wall within the boundaries of California.

Here is a ingenious idea. How about if Trump pulls an Obama and declares the entire 3000 mile stretch a national monument like Obama just did in parts of Nevada and Utah. One stroke of the pen and the entire 3000 miles are now part of the federal government. California then possibly has no legal basis to challenge the wall. Federal laws trump state laws. Liberals should have no problem with this land grab, every time Obama did it the liberals were all for it.

I just came up with this idea off the top of my head, maybe it would work, maybe it would not. I say go for it if California is going to throw up roadblocks.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
Here is a ingenious idea. How about if Trump pulls an Obama and declares the entire 3000 mile stretch a national monument like Obama just did in parts of Nevada and Utah....

Better yet, one-up their liberalism and give it back to the Indians. Let them cross the border and deal with lonely roads and tribal laws.

[jk3521]

It's been real quiet on this thread about the proposal to slap a 20% tax on Mexican imports to pay for the wall. Isn't the American consumer going to , in the long run , be paying for the wall after all that way ? What kind of mumbo jumbo is this ?

[Clocker]

It's been real quiet on this thread about the proposal to slap a 20% tax on Mexican imports to pay for the wall. Isn't the American consumer going to , in the long run , be paying for the wall after all that way ?

No, because the tariffs on Mexican imports will encourage American companies to make those things here, and competition will drive the prices down. See how that works?

Now, do you want New Jersey tequila or Kentucky tequila in that margarita? Sorry, there is no guacamole to go with that, the Minnesota avocado crop got wiped out by an early snow storm.

The real answer is that despite all the talk about punishing countries like China or car companies that move off shore, the American consumer pays for it all. Either the tariff on the import is passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices, or the consumer must buy a higher priced alternative made in the good old US of A.

[JustRalph]

It's a trial balloon, a place to start,

It's killing the peso though. Which gives Trump leverage.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's a trial balloon, a place to start,

It's killing the peso though. Which gives Trump leverage.Exactly. People love to jerk that knee and cry that the world has come to an end.

This is all preliminary stage stuff folks...once the wall starts being built and the checks come due, then we can start talking the whys hows and buts...

[EasyGoer89]

I just read that LT. Governor of California Gavin Newsom will use the states environmental laws to slow or stop the building of the wall within the boundaries of California.

Here is a ingenious idea. How about if Trump pulls an Obama and declares the entire 3000 mile stretch a national monument like Obama just did in parts of Nevada and Utah. One stroke of the pen and the entire 3000 miles are now part of the federal government. California then possibly has no legal basis to challenge the wall. Federal laws trump state laws. Liberals should have no problem with this land grab, every time Obama did it the liberals were all for it.

I just came up with this idea off the top of my head, maybe it would work, maybe it would not. I say go for it if California is going to throw up roadblocks.

Tweet this to trump at 3am he might tweet u back!

[jk3521]

It's a trial balloon, a place to start,


Send an arrow up to that balloon. I know, hit them in the pocketbook. But it will probably hurt the American consumer first and then hurt the Mexican economy later. So there may be a initial uproar here in the U.S.A. Hold on to your hats if that's the way it goes. Now's the time to do it. The voting public has a short memory and may put it out of their minds by election day 2018 when all congressional seats and 33 senatorial seats will be up for grabs.

[EasyGoer89]

Obama sends millions and billions on airplanes stacked in cash in the middle of the night not to mention all the other ridiculous govt waste and not a peep of a peep and here you have trump trying to actually do something good with the money and nobody wants to hear about it, if Mexico pays for 99.9 pct of the wall and the US taxpayers pay .01 put the fake media would say

AH HA !

[johnhannibalsmith]

Exactly. People love to jerk that knee and cry that the world has come to an end.

...

Someone has to act as a counterweight to those that would call the Atlantic magenta if Trump said he could turn the Atlantic from blue to magenta.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

OK.

So an actual wall/fence/poles/line/something is actually in place right?

Which actually means a border, with a reason of keeping "something" from crossing was already in place, right? Heck, even laws have been in place for years for this very thing to NOT happen, right?

And we are now looking to invest in that "fence" cause our neighbor keeps stinking up our neighborhood and making us pay for it, right?

Why can't we make that idiot neighbor pay for it due to his constant ass always burrowing under the original one, or sneaking in during the middle of the night with us eventually finding him and eventually throwing him back over the fence?

I know. How about a wall? **** that privacy fence crap.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Better yet, one-up their liberalism and give it back to the Indians. Let them cross the border and deal with lonely roads and tribal laws.
Actually, he will have trouble with the Indians in Arizona whose land parallels the border and who have said no wall will be built. And given their status as a sovereign nation, they can make that stick.

[wisconsin]

Actually, he will have trouble with the Indians in Arizona whose land parallels the border and who have said no wall will be built. And given their status as a sovereign nation, they can make that stick.

Then build it around the reservation.

[zico20]

Then build it around the reservation.

You just ruined his day with that comment. :lol:

[zico20]

Actually, he will have trouble with the Indians in Arizona whose land parallels the border and who have said no wall will be built. And given their status as a sovereign nation, they can make that stick.

How about we just move their reservation a couple of miles.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

How about we just move their reservation a couple of miles.
Which part of sovereign nation did you not get? It's not like they have a camping permit you can revoke.

[chadk66]

Which part of sovereign nation did you not get? It's not like they have a camping permit you can revoke.I guess we can just treat em like sanctuary cities and end their federal funding until they pull their head out of their ass

[zico20]

Which part of sovereign nation did you not get? It's not like they have a camping permit you can revoke.

It was a joke. Damn, I guess I should be more careful with you, detecting sarcasm must not be one of your stronger traits.

[johnhannibalsmith]

It was a joke. Damn, I guess I should be more careful with you, detecting sarcasm must not be one of your stronger traits.

I gotta say... it is getting pretty impossible to decipher which of the crazy ideas we get daily are the jokes and which are not.

edited - not meaning you specifically, just that Trumpamania is definitely running wild, brother. Oh yeah.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

It was a joke. Damn, I guess I should be more careful with you, detecting sarcasm must not be one of your stronger traits.
Actually I read some of the whacko stuff you are serious about, and it gets really hard to tell the difference.

[Clocker]

I gotta say... it is getting pretty impossible to decipher which of the crazy ideas we get daily are the jokes and which are not.



Are you talking about here, or the stuff coming out of Washington? :faint:

Unfortunately, about 95% of the stuff here is serious, and 100% of the stuff out of Washington.

[Tom]

Then build it around the reservation.

Duh. :lol:

[upthecreek]

Laura Ingraham
@IngrahamAngle

Make the cartels pay for the wall--freeze & seize their assets, deposit in border fund; also tax the $20 billion in remittances to Mexico.

[chadk66]

Laura Ingraham
@IngrahamAngle

Make the cartels pay for the wall--freeze & seize their assets, deposit in border fund; also tax the $20 billion in remittances to Mexico.stopping remittances to Mexico or stopping them altogether has been talked about for many months. Probably the best way to do it. :ThmbUp:

[Clocker]

Laura Ingraham
@IngrahamAngle

Make the cartels pay for the wall--freeze & seize their assets, deposit in border fund; also tax the $20 billion in remittances to Mexico

I would think that if we could freeze & seize the cartel assets, we would have done it long ago.

Is the proposal that we tax or stop remittances made by US citizens or legal immigrants who paid taxes on their earnings?

If not, how do we tell the difference?

[ebcorde]

Mexico City's talking about revenge for losing the Mexican war 1848 now. Nieto's F U to trump raised his approval rating too.

He slapped trump silly. He stopped tweeting after he heard loss of Nafta will cost 6 million jobs and increase in costs.
I told you. he's the same guy who messed up the USFL.


This guy insults our best trading partner, the worst of Mexico in my lifetime. Next day Trump's snuggled up on Putin's lap.
No doubt Trump is a racist or a bigot.

you are paying for that wall. which they will tunnel under lol.

[LottaKash]

No doubt Trump is a racist or a bigot.[/B]

.

What does anything you have said so far, have to do with racism or bigotry ?...

Just my opinion, but the more you post, the more Un-American you sound to me...

[EasyGoer89]

Mexico City's talking about revenge for losing the Mexican war 1848 now. Nieto's F U to trump raised his approval rating too.

He slapped trump silly. He stopped tweeting after he heard loss of Nafta will cost 6 million jobs and increase in costs.
I told you. he's the same guy who messed up the USFL.


This guy insults our best trading partner, the worst of Mexico in my lifetime. Next day Trump's snuggled up on Putin's lap.
No doubt Trump is a racist or a bigot.

you are paying for that wall. which they will tunnel under lol.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JustinRaimondo/status/824737488656687105

[chadk66]

What does anything you have said so far, have to do with racism or bigotry ?...

Just my opinion, but the more you post, the more Un-American you sound to me...yea that's a little hard to figure out. but when your loosing, everything is racist now.:bang:

[Tom]

Next day Trump's snuggled up on Putin's lap.
No doubt Trump is a racist or a bigot.


psssssst......Putin is NOT Black.

[chadk66]

psssssst......Putin is NOT Black.there you go pissin on his cheerios:D

[PaceAdvantage]

Mexico City's talking about revenge for losing the Mexican war 1848 now. Nieto's F U to trump raised his approval rating too.

He slapped trump silly. He stopped tweeting after he heard loss of Nafta will cost 6 million jobs and increase in costs.
I told you. he's the same guy who messed up the USFL.


This guy insults our best trading partner, the worst of Mexico in my lifetime. Next day Trump's snuggled up on Putin's lap.
No doubt Trump is a racist or a bigot.

you are paying for that wall. which they will tunnel under lol.The wall just got ten feet higher.

[EasyGoer89]

The wall just got ten feet higher.

Great minds think alike :D

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2110642&postcount=217

[TJDave]

The wall just got ten feet higher.

So did ladders.

[JustRalph]

So did ladders.

Scoped rifles

[TJDave]

Scoped rifles

Excellent. Cheaper than a wall.

How about mine fields? Cheaper still.

[Tom]

Wall, fence, mine fields, scoped rifles, drones, dogs.....troops.
Whatever it takes.

Everything is on the table.

[chadk66]

I've said numerous times I could stop illegal immigration in a matter of days. Just handle the southern border like North Korea would.

[PaceAdvantage]

So did ladders.Why would anyone be that desperate to come here, now that Hitler is in charge?

There should be a mass exodus taking place...not people clamoring to get in...

[Tom]

Good point, PA.
Move the land mines to THIS side of the wall.:cool:

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Why would anyone be that desperate to come here, now that Hitler is in charge?

There should be a mass exodus taking place...not people clamoring to get in...
Actually, more Mexicans are going back than coming in. But I don't think that has anything to do with Trump.

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, more Mexicans are going back than coming in. But I don't think that has anything to do with Trump.Yes, that's been the talking point since way before November 8....

[chadk66]

Yes, that's been the talking point since way before November 8....yet it's nothing but hogwash due to reclassifying these individuals. ;)

[TJDave]

Why would anyone be that desperate to come here, now that Hitler is in charge?

Because here they can make in a day what what would normally take them a week.

[TJDave]

I've said numerous times I could stop illegal immigration in a matter of days. Just handle the southern border like North Korea would.

I could do it quicker and cheaper.

One year mandatory prison sentence for hiring an illegal.

Second offense ten years.

[PaceAdvantage]

Because here they can make in a day what what would normally take them a week.Still man...Hitler...

[TJDave]

Still man...Hitler...

Hungry people take risks.

[EasyGoer89]

I could do it quicker and cheaper.

One year mandatory prison sentence for hiring an illegal.

Second offense ten years.

What If the peep is really an illegal but he has fake documents saying he's legit and then it comes out later he's illegal?

[AndyC]

I could do it quicker and cheaper.

One year mandatory prison sentence for hiring an illegal.

Second offense ten years.


What a great idea, put the onus on the business to do the job that is suppose to be done by the US government. Do we get to lock up the government employees for allowing illegal immigrants to be in the country in the first place?

E-verify seems to be the logical answer but for some reason there is no rush to implement.

[TJDave]

What If the peep is really an illegal but he has fake documents saying he's legit and then it comes out later he's illegal?

1. It's really not difficult to determine. Those who claim to be duped are mostly lying.

2. If it was truly a questionable call then pass. Why risk a year in jail?

[FantasticDan]

An oldie but a goodie

6MUfW0hcOAY

[chadk66]

I could do it quicker and cheaper.

One year mandatory prison sentence for hiring an illegal.

Second offense ten years.I'm all for that. But there is no way you can hold a company accountable for hiring an illegal that possesses forged documents that are as good as they get their hands on. A buddy of mine is the head of border patrol for all of ND and eastern MT. He said it takes them up to two days to ascertain the validity of their documents on many occasions.

[chadk66]

1. It's really not difficult to determine. Those who claim to be duped are mostly lying.

2. If it was truly a questionable call then pass. Why risk a year in jail?then the left will scream discrimination and profiling.

[woodtoo]

France building 8 foot ballistic wall around Eiffel Tower. It will cost 19 million Euros but will pay for it?

[woodtoo]

The bidding process for the DHS "Wall" Officially began. Bid duration starts
March 20 with pricing due March 24.

Made in America by Americans, who needs a job?:headbanger:

[Tom]

At the Academy of Communist Awards show, many so-called actors will stand on stage and insult Trump, call for no wall being build, and open borders.

All of them doing this behind a fenced in building with Hollywood Blvd, closed down.

How about we tear down that fend and allow anyone, citizen of not, who wants to be at the party come right in and have a free meal, watch a few flicks?

Open borders start with Oscar.