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MutuelClerk
12-20-2016, 03:13 PM
Can't really blame them anymore. The system is about greed. From the NCAA on down. Coaches bail on programs and get raises for it. If you want these kids who will be drafted to play in their last game, the NCAA is worth lots of $$$$$ They have to find a way to insure these kids who give it the old college try winning one for the gipper hurting themselves and then never play again. The student/athlete is a myth.

ronsmac
12-20-2016, 03:17 PM
Can't really blame them anymore. The system is about greed. From the NCAA on down. Coaches bail on programs and get raises for it. If you want these kids who will be drafted to play in their last game, the NCAA is worth lots of $$$$$ They have to find a way to insure these kids who give it the old college try winning one for the gipper hurting themselves and then never play again. The student/athlete is a myth.It's been a myth as far back as the 70's.

Valuist
12-20-2016, 03:38 PM
Most of the bowls are worthless exhibitions which will be played in 90% empty venues. I don't question either Fournette or McCaffery for passing those games.

ronsmac
12-20-2016, 04:28 PM
Speaking of Bowls. How about that crowd at the Miami Beach Bowl?

kingfin66
12-21-2016, 01:07 AM
Does it bother anybody that the players are essentially bailing on their teammates? There is always talk of teammates being close like brothers...people playing for the guy next to them. Is this a myth too? I think that it sucks that these players are walking away from their teams in this manner.

HuggingTheRail
12-21-2016, 01:18 AM
Most of them would rather smoke a bowl....

ElKabong
12-21-2016, 03:53 AM
Does it bother anybody that the players are essentially bailing on their teammates? There is always talk of teammates being close like brothers...people playing for the guy next to them. Is this a myth too? I think that it sucks that these players are walking away from their teams in this manner.

First time I heard of this was when Texas played Iowa in a minor 1984 bowl game (in California, don't recall the exact Bowl game title). We had some decent seniors, most notably tony degrate. He and others were told by their agents to fake injuries in that bowl game, or just dog it to avoid injury.

Chuck Long had a field day, vs us, but in all honesty our players laid down that evening. The Dallas morning news broke that story a week or so later, players denied signing with agents but everyone knew they did given that the seniors in question had purchased new cars and condos in Austin the week prior to the game.

This has been going on for quite some time. It's the reason I hold zero faith in bowl games that don't have title implications.

Marshall Bennett
12-21-2016, 06:16 AM
Believe Eric Metcaff was a part of that team. I don't watch any of them, only the few with title implications.

newtothegame
12-21-2016, 09:23 AM
Can't really blame them anymore. The system is about greed. From the NCAA on down. Coaches bail on programs and get raises for it. If you want these kids who will be drafted to play in their last game, the NCAA is worth lots of $$$$$ They have to find a way to insure these kids who give it the old college try winning one for the gipper hurting themselves and then never play again. The student/athlete is a myth.

I understand what youre saying, however, I disagree with the "last" game theory. So, they skip the bowl game....then wouldn't their last game be another conference game? How about they skip that one too as it is now their "last" game? Before you know it, every game could be their last game which is what this comes down too. Each and every time an athlete takes the field, it could be their "last" game.
For those prospective top tiered athletes who have millions on the line, that's why there is things such as Lloyds of London who writes those insurance policies.

If I were a NFL gm, I would seriously question a guys heart and integrity if he bailed on his team mates during ANY game. I would question how would this translate when my NFL team is 5-8 (hypothetically), is this player also going to bail then?? I mean why risk an injury when my next contract is the BIG one?

You see, this mindset goes on and on......
I personally, if I was in the position, would not draft any kid I saw do this .....

Dave Schwartz
12-21-2016, 11:45 AM
Boy, it sure is a good thing that nobody bets on those bowl games.

ronsmac
12-21-2016, 12:30 PM
I understand what youre saying, however, I disagree with the "last" game theory. So, they skip the bowl game....then wouldn't their last game be another conference game? How about they skip that one too as it is now their "last" game? Before you know it, every game could be their last game which is what this comes down too. Each and every time an athlete takes the field, it could be their "last" game.
For those prospective top tiered athletes who have millions on the line, that's why there is things such as Lloyds of London who writes those insurance policies.

If I were a NFL gm, I would seriously question a guys heart and integrity if he bailed on his team mates during ANY game. I would question how would this translate when my NFL team is 5-8 (hypothetically), is this player also going to bail then?? I mean why risk an injury when my next contract is the BIG one?

You see, this mindset goes on and on......
I personally, if I was in the position, would not draft any kid I saw do this .....You might be the only person on earth who would question Fournette's heart. Have you seen that guy run? He runs like a modern day Earl Campbell.

NJ Stinks
12-24-2016, 02:09 AM
Phil Mushnick summed things up well in Friday's NY Post:
_____________________________________

And so reality races in opposite directions until it collides. The con of student-athletics: Our colleges operating as nothing more beneficial for society than fronts for whatever-it-takes teams led by coaches paid millions while schools grow unaffordable for legitimate students.

Then, when the star is expected to play one more for good ole State U., he quits. That is how relationships built on mutual exploitation should end.


link: http://nypost.com/2016/12/23/colleges-reap-what-they-sow-with-stars-sitting-out-bowl-games/

EasyGoer89
12-24-2016, 06:42 AM
I was watching a bowl game on a blue field the other night and the heavily favored team was down by 40 points or something bizarre and just watching the body language of the players it was like nobody even wanted to be there, there was no desperation and passion, people weren't playing like their lives depended on it, I'm starting to see this creep into other sports too, it's like the WIN isn't as important as the money and as a fan, I don't get any of the money so if I'm going to tune in, I need to see guys playing for glory.

newtothegame
12-24-2016, 08:11 AM
You might be the only person on earth who would question Fournette's heart. Have you seen that guy run? He runs like a modern day Earl Campbell.
Its not about Fournette, or the kid from Stanford. Its about kids in general doing this. Is Fournette the BEST back in the country? Absolutely. But my argument still holds water. Its no different then NFL teams packing it in when they are "eliminated" or clinched.
What about the ticket holders? How about we just pay for a 15 game season versus a 16 game season? Do you think the NFL or college would accept that?

Marshall Bennett
12-24-2016, 08:15 AM
I was watching a bowl game on a blue field the other night and the heavily favored team was down by 40 points or something bizarre and just watching the body language of the players it was like nobody even wanted to be there, there was no desperation and passion, people weren't playing like their lives depended on it, I'm starting to see this creep into other sports too, it's like the WIN isn't as important as the money and as a fan, I don't get any of the money so if I'm going to tune in, I need to see guys playing for glory.
I'd want to get off a blue field as quick as possible regardless. What if anything looks real about it? :D

burnsy
12-27-2016, 08:50 AM
Its not about Fournette, or the kid from Stanford. Its about kids in general doing this. Is Fournette the BEST back in the country? Absolutely. But my argument still holds water. Its no different then NFL teams packing it in when they are "eliminated" or clinched.
What about the ticket holders? How about we just pay for a 15 game season versus a 16 game season? Do you think the NFL or college would accept that?

Your argument does not hold water at all. If they make the big league they are millionaires or at least start to make real money. At the NCAA level everyone else is cashing in except the player. Whose ass is on the line (literally) when the ball is snapped? Some of these coaches disappear in the middle of the night making millions and there's not a problem with that? How do you think these kids are recruited? Then the coach bails out. Plus, you are talking about the difference where they call you an amateur, pay you as such too. Once someone makes the NFL, one is a professional, expectations are such and so are the ethics of being a pro.

These bowl games are a joke, no one cares unless its part of the final 4. Its a big dog and pony farce for the schools and the networks. If I were an agent or a parent you bet your ass my kid would not be in there if a contract to the "bigs" was on the line. Everyone gets to treat themselves like a business except the people that are putting their limbs on the line.....what a hypocritical joke. Don't give me that "abandoning the team crap" either, anyone with half a brain understands what that team mate is risking for not much in return at the point these games are played. I sort of think the two guys mentioned would be idiots if they played.

Jess Hawsen Arown
12-27-2016, 11:12 AM
The NCAA sets rules to maximize profits. The schools set rules to maximize profits.

Now the kids are doing the same. Good for them.

Marshall Bennett
12-27-2016, 01:19 PM
I don't for a second believe NFL teams pack it in when they have a playoff spot clinched either. They'd better stay mentally engaged and remain in the same groove that got them there. If they don't they get their butts kicked bad at the pro level. Cowboys game night was a prime example and they even had a bye-week clinched. One exception I might see is backup q-backs getting some playing time in the event the starter is ailing somewhat.
As for teams already eliminated. No doubt their hearts aren't in it like they might have been otherwise, but if they're sandbagging to the point it becomes obvious, it will be duly noted and probably aren't worth having around anyway.

ElKabong
12-30-2016, 11:40 PM
If a player sits out a game and his team wins without him, just how valuable is that player to begin with?

I don't see either fournette or mccaffery as a difference maker in the nfl. Even in college, their teams have been able to win without them.

The acc has really looked good in the bowls. I don't put much stock in bowl games but they have shown well so far

PhantomOnTour
12-30-2016, 11:59 PM
It's funny how Fournette has become a bit of an afterthought around here.
Maybe it's the excitement surrounding Guice, who is a damn good RB and will be the LSU starter next season.
Maybe it's just a "letting go" of what has honestly been a disappointing 3yr run for the team while Fournette was here...though it's no fault of his.

Nice matchup vs Louisville tomorrow in the Citrus Bowl (a game that has very bad memories for me)

MutuelClerk
12-31-2016, 12:41 AM
Why doesn't ESPN man up on these bowl games and just give us a commercial after every play. This makes a Red Sox- Yankees game look quick. WTF? I hate them.

Off topic. Apologies.

Valuist
12-31-2016, 01:01 AM
It's funny how Fournette has become a bit of an afterthought around here.
Maybe it's the excitement surrounding Guice, who is a damn good RB and will be the LSU starter next season.
Maybe it's just a "letting go" of what has honestly been a disappointing 3yr run for the team while Fournette was here...though it's no fault of his.

Nice matchup vs Louisville tomorrow in the Citrus Bowl (a game that has very bad memories for me)

Have to think Fournette goes 1st or 2nd in the draft.

ElKabong
12-31-2016, 01:23 AM
Have to think Fournette goes 1st or 2nd in the draft.

Really? A rb with the second pick?

Fournette is very talented but an OL makes or breaks a rb. Emmit smith is a great example. I'd spend that pick on a top flight OL guy, a sure fire qb, or a difference maker on defense.

Having said that, miles Garrett (aggy) has been nothng more than mediocre when I've seen him play. Not sure why he's being touted as a top pick, or a second overall. He was no factor in he bowl game.... Or any sec game I watched him play in this season

If I had a top 3 pick, every year I'd take an offensive lineman. If a true shut down corner was available I'd sure think about taking him, but to me the o line is where you build a champion.

ElKabong
12-31-2016, 01:30 AM
Nice matchup vs Louisville tomorrow in the Citrus Bowl (a game that has very bad memories for me)

This would normally be a huge draw. But a 10am kickoff?? Who gets up for a 10am game?

This is a great matchup, just hoping the players are into it.

ElKabong
12-31-2016, 02:51 PM
Fournette hasn't been missed today.
Stanford won without mccaffery.

Scouts are scouts, they'll still be onboard with these guys in the draft, but the ultimate goal is to win games. These two weren't needed by their teams in their bowl games.

ElKabong
12-31-2016, 02:58 PM
This would normally be a huge draw. But a 10am kickoff?? Who gets up for a 10am game?

This is a great matchup, just hoping the players are into it.

LSU looks really stout today. They should be ranked no lower than third in the preseason poll.

burnsy
12-31-2016, 11:17 PM
Ohio State, All year the "talking heads" were pushing them as the second best team. Really? They are pretty slow .

Gee, I better go "break a leg" in the Baked Bean Bowl........... :lol:

The entire thing is a joke. 4 team concept, :ThmbDown:

Not on one of the 4 teams? All the more reason to not play. Even more so if one is on a big name team. The Big Ten is the Shiz, so says the media? Ohio State is getting crushed, Nebraska got crushed and Michigan lost a close one. Lets see what Penn State does, they probably belonged in this game anyway. There's a few more to go but the Big 10 is getting an ass kicking, somehow they were rated the best teams. Have a real playoff and I bet more would play. Its kind of the same thing I said about HOY, the winner is determined by playing the game, not over a bunch of schmucks bellying up to popcorn and a buffet. That entire "committee" crap is a laugher.

PhantomOnTour
01-01-2017, 11:47 AM
That's what happens when a gimmick style offense meets a straight up stout D and a strong running game.

Valuist
01-02-2017, 05:17 PM
Really? A rb with the second pick?



Fournette is very talented but an OL makes or breaks a rb. Emmit smith is a great example. I'd spend that pick on a top flight OL guy, a sure fire qb, or a difference maker on defense.

Having said that, miles Garrett (aggy) has been nothng more than mediocre when I've seen him play. Not sure why he's being touted as a top pick, or a second overall. He was no factor in he bowl game.... Or any sec game I watched him play in this season

If I had a top 3 pick, every year I'd take an offensive lineman. If a true shut down corner was available I'd sure think about taking him, but to me the o line is where you build a champion.

Zeke Elliot went 4th this past season. Guess who will be Rookie of the Year?

Fournette looks like a monster, can't miss. The most likely impact player on the offensive side. Down year for QBs. We could see 6 Alabama defenders in the top 25.

Valuist
01-02-2017, 05:20 PM
I think we saw a guy move up today: Jake Fumagalli of Wisconsin. Three tremendous catches today. He had over 40 on the season on a team who wants to run, run, and run some more. It's not like he was going to go in the first round, but he definitely moved up a number of slots with his play today.

ElKabong
01-02-2017, 05:28 PM
Zeke Elliot went 4th this past season. Guess who will be Rookie of the Year?

Fournette looks like a monster, can't miss. The most likely impact player on the offensive side. Down year for QBs. We could see 6 Alabama defenders in the top 25.

What makes the cow dogs tick? The offensive line or Elliott?

The offensive line

Check out emmitt smith at Dallas when they had the best offensive line in the game. Then see what he did when the wheels fell off & when he was at Arizona. Was average at best

Same for aikman. Bad o line, bad performance. Give him a great line, great performance

Robert Fischer
01-02-2017, 06:03 PM
That offensive line is great for the Cowboys. Dominant.

Their offense also has such a good balance between run and pass, that defenses almost never have an opportunity to overplay.
In the red zone, or in key short yardage situations, they spread defenses even thinner, with Prescott posing a threat to run as well.

MVP considerations, including contract value/
Elliot is good. He's a fresh body, and he's an explosive downhill guy. With that style, line and offense, he's averaging 5 a pop, and it puts pressure on the secondary and deep linebacker angles.
He's not cheap, however. Little over 4M vs cap. (about 10th most expensive RB)
Teams like Pittsburgh and New England are getting away with a lot of value at the position this year.


Running Back is one of the least valuable position in the NFL.
Relatively huge talent pool of guys who can be competent vs other positions.
The list of NFL teams who spend more on a single Running Back than the Cowboys/Zeke = Vikings, Bills, Panthers, Bucs, Chiefs, Texans, Jags, Titans.
Not exactly the blueprint of champion rosters.

Valuist
01-02-2017, 06:35 PM
What makes the cow dogs tick? The offensive line or Elliott?

The offensive line

Check out emmitt smith at Dallas when they had the best offensive line in the game. Then see what he did when the wheels fell off & when he was at Arizona. Was average at best

Same for aikman. Bad o line, bad performance. Give him a great line, great performance

Nobody is denying the Cowboys have the best O-line in football. Elliott hasn't missed his opportunities (neither has Prescott).

Back to the original point, who gets drafted ahead of Fournette? Garrett from A & M? Maybe. An Alabama defender (or two or 3)? Sure. A QB? Not if I was drafting. The QBs aren't worth early picks this year, IMO.

Valuist
01-02-2017, 06:43 PM
That offensive line is great for the Cowboys. Dominant.



Running Back is one of the least valuable position in the NFL.
Relatively huge talent pool of guys who can be competent vs other positions.
The list of NFL teams who spend more on a single Running Back than the Cowboys/Zeke = Vikings, Bills, Panthers, Bucs, Chiefs, Texans, Jags, Titans.
Not exactly the blueprint of champion rosters.


The Cowboys spent nearly $11 million this year on RBs. They thought highly enough of the position to spend the # 4 pick, and the result has been they are a juggernaut. And the $11 million is only because Elliott is on a rookie contract. McFadden and Morris are at $1.75m and $1.5m, and Dunbar another $1.25. That is a team who clearly DOES value the RB position.

Secondbest
01-02-2017, 06:47 PM
Top seven draft order
Cleve,SF,Chi,Jac,Tenn,Jets,SD
These guys all need a ton of help.All depends on what they value most.

ElKabong
01-02-2017, 08:13 PM
Nobody is denying the Cowboys have the best O-line in football. Elliott hasn't missed his opportunities (neither has Prescott).

Back to the original point, who gets drafted ahead of Fournette? Garrett from A & M? Maybe. An Alabama defender (or two or 3)? Sure. A QB? Not if I was drafting. The QBs aren't worth early picks this year, IMO.

Allen (Alabama)
Robinson (Alabama)
Foster (Alabama)
peppers (Mich)
Adams (LSU)
Humphrey (Alabama)
Feeney (Indiana)
Watson (Clemson)
Williams (Alabama)
Tabor (Florida)
Sidney Jones (Washington)
Williams (Clemson)
Barnett (Tennessee)


I'd take all these over Fournette and not blink. Same for Miles Garrett. Over rated imo

I'd take Dalvin Cook over Fournette

If I needed a QB I'd take Kizer and Trubiski (in addition to Watson) over Fournette

Last but not least, good -to- great OL guys are found in the film room. I never heard of half the guys on the cowboys OL until they came here. If I had more time (don't we all wish we had more?!) I'd check some taped games for OL guys.

Not knocking Fournette at all. Great college RB, but that doesn't always cross over to sundays, esp when you're stuck on a bad frranchise

Robert Fischer
01-02-2017, 09:00 PM
Fournette looks like a monster, can't miss.

on this point, we agree

Secondbest
01-02-2017, 09:24 PM
The teams at the top of the draft all need more help than a rb.They need line help on both sides that's why they are where they are.Tenn is an exception. They have the Rams pick and a top Ol. Murray had an ok year but backs fall off fast. That might be a good spot for him.Going to any of those other teams is like falling in a black hole.