The Russians cost Hillary the election

[EasyGoer89]

Or, not.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrittPettibone/status/807643205290246144

:rolleyes:

[barahona44]

Hillary cost Hillary the election.

But don't think for a second that the St. Petersburg Godfather, Don Putin, will take credit in that non-denial denial he's so good at.

[Greyfox]

Obama's pig-headed attitude and social blindness cost Hillary the election.

[davew]

and I thought it was the growing hatred of the lying mainstream news

[RunForTheRoses]

https://i.imgflip.com/1egmov.jpg

[EasyGoer89]

The Dem party thought so much of their base that they thought to themselves "doesn't matter who we run, our voters will vote for that person"

Hillary not only had Soros and other global giants in her pocket, but she had the global media (sites like dailymail were all in for hillary, you couldn't go there and see a positive trump article if you tried, based in UK) all in for her, she had powerful Republicans like Ryan, Romney and Graham in HER corner, she had the current president and first lady on the CAMPAIGN TRAIL as if THEY were the ones campaigning, she had the open borders with 'voters' streaming in by the thousands and she had the Hollywood Elite A listers in her corner. All this....

And Trump got 306 electorals and won the popular vote by millions, pretty incredible when you think about it.

Pretty odd that Obama was 'campaigning' for Hillary so hard, hmmm, he really had an extra special interest to see her win, wonder why.
:eek:

[JustRalph]

Dems are going totally off their ****ing rocker over this.

They are going to become violent again. These assholes think they are going to get a new election. Like the outcome would be different after all the shit that's happen after the election?

You can't unring a bell. The DNC emails are out there. The Russians didn't make that shit up. Wikileaks exposed them for who they are. Cheating ****s who railroaded Sanders and screwed the pooch a hundred other ways.

Get over it


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512651416

[JustRalph]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/scotus-invalidate-election-results-2016-order-new-election

[Inner Dirt]

I thought the CIA was unbiased, am I wrong? The extreme bias of some government agencies is utterly pathetic these days. I think 8 years of the great divider magnified a lot of things about government in this country that are not good.

[Inner Dirt]

The Dem party thought so much of their base that they thought to themselves "doesn't matter who we run, our voters will vote for that person"

Hillary not only had Soros and other global giants in her pocket, but she had the global media (sites like dailymail were all in for hillary, you couldn't go there and see a positive trump article if you tried, based in UK) all in for her, she had powerful Republicans like Ryan, Romney and Graham in HER corner, she had the current president and first lady on the CAMPAIGN TRAIL as if THEY were the ones campaigning, she had the open borders with 'voters' streaming in by the thousands and she had the Hollywood Elite A listers in her corner. All this....

And Trump got 306 electorals and won the popular vote by millions, pretty incredible when you think about it.

Pretty odd that Obama was 'campaigning' for Hillary so hard, hmmm, he really had an extra special interest to see her win, wonder why.
:eek:

It is pretty amazing how Trump beat such a stacked deck. It is strange that quite a few Hillary supporters who dismiss her chronic lying can't grasp how poorly she is viewed by so many people.

[Tom]

RunForTheRoses...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Casey Kasem, please dedicate this meme to horsey, who has been conspicuous in his absence from OT!

This whole thing is deplorable!

[jk3521]

It is pretty amazing how Trump beat such a stacked deck. It is strange that quite a few Hillary supporters who dismiss her chronic lying can't grasp how poorly she is viewed by so many people.

I think the democrats were actually stuck with Hillary . A lot of them really didn't want to have her for their nominee, but she had to be the one because it was supposedly ordained that we must now have a female President . Otherwise, Bernie wouldn't have done so well against her. It didn't matter if she was qualified or not or if she was honest or not. So I think ,in reality, it wasn't such a great upset that Trump was the victor.

It's all in the timing, folks. If Trump had run in 2008 and was the nominee, Obama would have crushed him.

[RunForTheRoses]

Of course it had to be the Russians, MSM wouldn't point to stuff such as this for why she lost the election:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/podesta-emails-show-excerpts-of-clinton-speeches-to-goldman/

“I mean, politics is like sausage being made,” she said in the speech according to the excerpt. “It is unsavory, and it always has been that way, but we usually end up where we need to be. But if everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position.”

http://abc13.com/politics/leaked-emails-detail-what-clinton-said-in-private-speeches/1545506/

https://prowhiteparty.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/hillary-vast-right-wing-conspiracy.jpg

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

The Russians kept Hillary from campaigning in Michigan and Wisconsin?

:lol:

[ebcorde]

Why are the Russians messing with all the elections in USA and western Europe?

Mi-6 came out last week and said the same F'ING thing the CIA said.

oh but you trust the Trumpster. All he did was copy Hitler's and ISIS's fake news tactics to brainwash his recruits.

[OntheRail]

This is fcking funny beyond the realm.

So far the CIA said We Think... We Believe... It's Possible.

Other then that no proof.

Well I never got a email from USSR urging me to vote at gun point for anyone.... How bout you... anyone?

And seeing as each and every Voting District in every State is Independent from all others. The thought of Fraud is a stretch. MoPo... hcap... horsey and others told us so before the election. But the outcome of a Hillary loss has now made it flip that to a... We Think... We Believe... It's Possible. WE DEMAND A DO OVER... well that leaves many :lol: :lol: :lol:.


And RunForTheRoses :ThmbUp: :D

[OntheRail]

Why are the Russians messing with all the elections in USA and western Europe?

Mi-6 came out last week and said the same F'ING thing the CIA said.

oh but you trust the Trumpster. All he did was copy Hitler's and ISIS's fake news tactics to brainwash his recruits.
You got the Fake News part... wrong target... turn to your left and look in the mirror. ;) Bingo!

[EasyGoer89]

Why are the Russians messing with all the elections in USA and western Europe?

Mi-6 came out last week and said the same F'ING thing the CIA said.

oh but you trust the Trumpster. All he did was copy Hitler's and ISIS's fake news tactics to brainwash his recruits.

Mainstream media is fake news, the more you listen to them the more you'll come here and post stuff like this. Every single word that they spew is propaganda and lies, if you don't realize this yet, I'm trying to help you out, hopefully you can figure it out at some point.

[JustRalph]

The Russians kept Hillary from campaigning in Michigan and Wisconsin?

:lol:

She took the Midwest for granted and it cost her

[JustRalph]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028351637

Think they'll get out of the house?

[incoming]

They believed the "vast right wing conspiracy" tale for over 20 years now its the Russians did it. Sort of reminds you of the tales kids can come up with when made to confront the truth. :lol:

[EasyGoer89]

They believed the "vast right wing conspiracy" tale for over 20 years now its the Russians did it. Sort of reminds you of the tales kids can come up with when made to confront the truth. :lol:

#butrussia

[chadk66]

it's Bush's fault. Let's pretend for a minute Russia was involved. All it did was level the playing field with the main stream media all in the tank for Hillary.

[PaceAdvantage]

I feared for Trump's life during the campaign...but as the media bashed him unmercifully, and he continued to say things he shouldn't, I started thinking he realistically had no chance to win. So did everyone else, which kept him safe for the time being.

But then he actually went out and won the damn thing. :lol:

And with all this CIA stuff being whipped up now, I can't help but think there is a crackpot out there who will get through somehow...or...perhaps a more insidious "inside job" of sorts...that can easily be covered by a "crackpot" patsy....

Yeah, I know...crazy conspiracy theorist that lives inside of me coming out.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Yeah, I know...crazy conspiracy theorist that lives inside of me coming out.

I think that I'd want to be on a real low level of Trump Tower.

[PaceAdvantage]

The real scary thing in all of this is, said crackpot, if successful, would be looked upon as a HERO by a great number of people...including some very influential and powerful people...thus adding fuel to said crackpot's motivation and determination.

The whole thing is a recipe for disaster...

[Tom]

Rush just reminded me....Obama spent millions of taxpayer dollars and even put boots on the ground in Israel to try to influence their elections.

Where is the outrage over that?
That was FAR worse than anything Russia MIGHT have done.

Someone tell that geezer McCain maybe he should shut his big fat mouth and fade away. What an annoying little twit he has become.

[classhandicapper]

Why is the issue whether or not Assange and wikileaks got their information from Russian hackers or not (Assange says it was not) when the real issue is what they exposed?

The DNC rigged the primaries for Hillary.

CNN tried to rig the debates for Hillary.

Almost the entire mainstream media other than Fox had journalists that were considered "frlendlies" that could plant or spin stories favorable to Hillary at the request of the DNC or her campaign and pass them off as legitimate news.

High ranking members of Hillary's campaign may be involved in coded illegal activities for which so far there is only circumstantial evidence.

They are making this story out to be about fake news and Russians when it's really about them being corrupt and imo much worse than we even want to contemplate.

[chadk66]

Why is the issue whether or not Assange and wikileaks got their information from Russian hackers or not (Assange says it was not) when the real issue is what they exposed?

The DNC rigged the primaries for Hillary.

CNN tried to rig the debates for Hillary.

Almost the entire mainstream media other than Fox had journalists that were considered "frlendlies" that could plant or spin stories favorable to Hillary at the request of the DNC or her campaign and pass them off as legitimate news.

High ranking members of Hillary's campaign may be involved in coded illegal activities for which so far there is only circumstantial evidence.

They are making this story out to be about fake news and Russians when it's really about them being corrupt and imo much worse than we even want to contemplate.yea I'd be far more concerned about the DNC rigging the election than Russia helping Trump win. But the russians never pulled the voting lever

[davew]

The left is irate that a 'foreign government' has attempted to interfere with our election.

I have to wonder if the United States has ever interfered with leadership or elections in other countries .... :lol:

[EasyGoer89]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/12/cia-russian-hacking-story-sham/

Good article on Russia hacking story.

[Tom]

I see McConnell supports a congressional investigation.
Most in congress could not find their ares with both hands and a road map.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I am just laughing at the whole perception that is being propounded. Our president is a communist sympathizer, has aided an Islamic country that supports terrorism, but Russia is our big enemy who hasn't been communist in over a decade?

This is almost as absurdly comical as the students protesting the killing of the terrorist at Ohio State because it is another person of color that is a "Victim" of police. People were getting their asses kicked for voting for Trump during these partly manufactured protests but somehow this guy is a victim? I never realized how many creeps were in this country til this election.

[chadk66]

The left is irate that a 'foreign government' has attempted to interfere with our election.

I have to wonder if the United States has ever interfered with leadership or elections in other countries .... :lol:Does Obama/Israel ring a bell?
;)

[Tom]

"I will have more flexibility after the election."
-------Obama, to Putin 2008

[Tom]

Does Obama/Israel ring a bell?
;)

http://thehill.com/policy/international/236565-netanyahu-pollster-obama-role-in-election-larger-than-reported

[Greyfox]

"I will have more flexibility after the election."
-------Obama, to Putin 2008

Ahem.
Obama actually said that in March 2012 to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

XsFR8DbSRQE

[reckless]

Does Obama/Israel ring a bell? ;)

Barry Obama, the world's laughingstock, sent millions of US dollars plus lawyers and consultants to Israel to interfere in their election this year. Obama directly interfered in the election of a sovereign country when he tried to topple the great world leader Bibi Netanyahu.

And, chadk, you could also include the impeached Bill Clinton interfering in an Israeli election in 1996 when Ehud Barak ran against and defeated Netanyahu.

And, of course, there's the very same Obama visiting England this year and scolding the citizens there and threatening them that if they vote to 'leave' the EU, he would place the UK at the end of queue regarding USA-UK trade.

[woodtoo]

Turns out the CIA source who claimed "Russian interference an existential threat to our way of life is non other than former "interim" CIA Head Mike Morell a %100 political operative, yes the same guy who under Obama led the Benghazi coverup blaming some video and after being unceremoniously
replaced joined the crooked Hillary machine.
Its what they do, lie, deceive, distract .

[chadk66]

Turns out the CIA source who claimed "Russian interference an existential threat to our way of life is non other than former "interim" CIA Head Mike Morell a %100 political operative, yes the same guy who under Obama led the Benghazi coverup blaming some video and after being unceremoniously
replaced joined the crooked Hillary machine.
Its what they do, lie, deceive, distract .Oh the shock of it all. :eek:

[classhandicapper]

IMO this is all an effort by the democrats to de-legitimize the election as much as possible so they can minimize the power Trump has to implement his agenda. I have no problem with the democrats being the opposition. That's exactly their job. What I have a problem with the media being close to 100% in the tank on this aspect of it just like they were before the election.

I have long felt that some elements on the left are actually subversive enemies of the US. I am more certain of that after reading the Podesta wiikeaks.

I have long felt that much of the media was biased to the left and we needed biased sources like Fox, talk radio, the WSJ to be an effective balance to it. I learned it was was way worse than I thought after reading the Podesta wiikeaks.

Now I am at the point where I feel that a lot of people at the NY Times, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS etc.. are not just the political opposition. They are so extreme in their bias and efforts to destroy the opposition, they are basically part of the same subversive elements. They are practically enemies of the state.

[woodtoo]

Oh the shock of it all. :eek:
I know, I thought they could never in a million years stoop that low. :lol:

[Tom]

[QUOTE=Greyfox]Ahem.
Obama actually said that in March 2012 to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

OK, I got the year wrong, but the treason correct. :rolleyes:

There is no evidence that ANY tampering of any vote was done.
There is no evidence Russia hacked anything.
What we have here is the left, a bunch of whining little bastards, who cannot accept reality. ALLGORE Part II.

Recounts didn't work, so now it's the Russians.

Who knows how low this bunch of disgusting embarrassments to Americans will sink when this doesn't work.

They got beat because they were lying, cheating, dirty pukes and now they are crying little girls.

Welcome to the real world losers.
No trophies for losing in this life.
To bad your pathetic parents brought you up stupid. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[MargieRose]

Judge Napolitano was just talking about this, again, on FOX:

Published on Aug 4, 2016
Judge Napolitano's Chambers: Judge Andrew Napolitano explains why the National Security Administration (NSA,) not the Russian government, is to blame for hacking the DNC email servers. [More accurately, info. was 'leaked' by NSA.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xgcR4yF5Y

[JustRalph]

Turns out the CIA source who claimed "Russian interference an existential threat to our way of life is non other than former "interim" CIA Head Mike Morell a %100 political operative, yes the same guy who under Obama led the Benghazi coverup blaming some video and after being unceremoniously
replaced joined the crooked Hillary machine.
Its what they do, lie, deceive, distract .

A backlash is coming.......

[rastajenk]

...Now I am at the point where I feel that a lot of people at the NY Times, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS etc.. are not just the political opposition. They are so extreme in their bias and efforts to destroy the opposition, they are basically part of the same subversive elements. They are practically enemies of the state.We have a wonderful long history of the peaceful transfer of power, interrupted only once. This anti-Trump hysteria will really put that to the test. There are millions of people that lap that stuff up. They do not realize how fragile this American experience is, and are willing to destroy anything and anyone to protect their long march through the institutions in the face of legitimate opposition.

I've read a lot of Civil War stuff in the last five years or so (currently finishing up Team of Rivals). And the Dem/lib left, despite their race-charged rhetoric and their supposed love for one another and everyone, remind me so much of the Secessionist spirit of those times. They would rather fight and destroy than give up their Faith that their way is the only way. The scary part is that it's not just the usual campus radicals, commies, anarchists (although they'll be on the front lines for sure if it ever comes to that), but otherwise normal people sign on and cheer on these kinds of desperate acts.

My facebook "friends" are mostly high school acquaintances from decades ago that I hadn't kept up with and still don't; I'm not an active facebooker. But I do see the crap that a lot of them link to, and it's amazing to see them congratulating themselves on being informed and smart, and signalling all the right virtues, and hating on everyone else. It's distressing. Families and friendships will be rent asunder, it's just getting started. The more setbacks the Left suffers, the more they dig in and get meaner.

[forced89]

Hillary lost the election because she was over confident. She thought spending $1.2 billion would carry the day for her. She made relatively few campaign appearances. Trump spent only $600 million but busted his butt attending rally after rally. Look at Wisconsin. Hillary never showed up. Trump showed up many times. Wisconsin was won by only a few votes. Effort won out over money.

[incoming]

We have a wonderful long history of the peaceful transfer of power, interrupted only once. This anti-Trump hysteria will really put that to the test. There are millions of people that lap that stuff up. They do not realize how fragile this American experience is, and are willing to destroy anything and anyone to protect their long march through the institutions in the face of legitimate opposition.

I've read a lot of Civil War stuff in the last five years or so (currently finishing up Team of Rivals). And the Dem/lib left, despite their race-charged rhetoric and their supposed love for one another and everyone, remind me so much of the Secessionist spirit of those times. They would rather fight and destroy than give up their Faith that their way is the only way. The scary part is that it's not just the usual campus radicals, commies, anarchists (although they'll be on the front lines for sure if it ever comes to that), but otherwise normal people sign on and cheer on these kinds of desperate acts.

My facebook "friends" are mostly high school acquaintances from decades ago that I hadn't kept up with and still don't; I'm not an active facebooker. But I do see the crap that a lot of them link to, and it's amazing to see them congratulating themselves on being informed and smart, and signalling all the right virtues, and hating on everyone else. It's distressing. Families and friendships will be rent asunder, it's just getting started. The more setbacks the Left suffers, the more they dig in and get meaner.
I agree with your overall analysis...for myself, the past 3 elections have set a positive trend. The conservatives have made very good gains in state and county governments nationwide along with the federal government. Of course, the NE and west coast are exceptions but are starting to lisp....just a little. Hopefully, 4 to 8 years of a robust economy will change some votes. After 10 years of stagnation it should be primed.

[EasyGoer89]

Hillary lost the election because she was over confident. She thought spending $1.2 billion would carry the day for her. She made relatively few campaign appearances. Trump spent only $600 million but busted his butt attending rally after rally. Look at Wisconsin. Hillary never showed up. Trump showed up many times. Wisconsin was won by only a few votes. Effort won out over money.

He wanted it more and had a more sincere message. She got out worked plain and simple, you're exactly right.

[delayjf]

I wonder if Trump won't reconsider investigating the Clinton's after the way the left has attempted to undermine the election. Or perhaps draining the swamp at the CIA.

[EasyGoer89]

I wonder if Trump won't reconsider investigating the Clinton's after the way the left has attempted to undermine the election. Or perhaps draining the swamp at the CIA.

I think a lot of this 'stuff' that's going on now is going to make it LOOK like he's investigating them due to him being mad at the election challenges and this fake Russia stuff, he might not want to look like its political revenge. He needs to stand clear and let others make the arrests.

I also think that something needs to come out to sway public against Hillary or podesta or any other criminal like a photo or video of something bad happening, weiner has many things on his computer and we haven't heard much about any if it, I think they're waiting till obozo the pardoner gets out of the way.

[classhandicapper]

I think they're waiting till obozo the pardoner gets out of the way.

There are almost certainly people at the FBI, CIA, DOJ, NSA etc.. that are very political. Since Obama is president and some of his people are in power at these agencies, his agenda is what's generally going to get advanced. That will change somewhat when Trump takes over, but I really wonder if they are sitting on evidence and indictments now because they don't want Obama to pardon any of them. I actually read an article like that when the Weiner laptop case first broke just before the election. It said there was an internal debate at the FBI about whether to proceed with indictments immediately or to wait until after Trump was inaugurated. Unfortunately, it was one of those reports where "unnamed sources" within the NY police and FBI are telling people..... So who knows if it was true. I'm just convinced there was criminal activity exposed in the wikileaks emails. It's a matter if they have enough proof from the Weiner laptop to prosecute and whether these dirt bags are going to get away with it or have covered it up.

[CincyHorseplayer]

We have a wonderful long history of the peaceful transfer of power, interrupted only once. This anti-Trump hysteria will really put that to the test. There are millions of people that lap that stuff up. They do not realize how fragile this American experience is, and are willing to destroy anything and anyone to protect their long march through the institutions in the face of legitimate opposition.

I've read a lot of Civil War stuff in the last five years or so (currently finishing up Team of Rivals). And the Dem/lib left, despite their race-charged rhetoric and their supposed love for one another and everyone, remind me so much of the Secessionist spirit of those times. They would rather fight and destroy than give up their Faith that their way is the only way. The scary part is that it's not just the usual campus radicals, commies, anarchists (although they'll be on the front lines for sure if it ever comes to that), but otherwise normal people sign on and cheer on these kinds of desperate acts.

My facebook "friends" are mostly high school acquaintances from decades ago that I hadn't kept up with and still don't; I'm not an active facebooker. But I do see the crap that a lot of them link to, and it's amazing to see them congratulating themselves on being informed and smart, and signalling all the right virtues, and hating on everyone else. It's distressing. Families and friendships will be rent asunder, it's just getting started. The more setbacks the Left suffers, the more they dig in and get meaner.

Great observations Lee. From top to bottom. I have noticed the same things. They are at their nihilistic wit's end. What they lack in pure hostility they make up for in cunning. Watching them dress up the obvious in a blanket of meaning is sick. I never realized how bad this was til this election. These aren't lovable, peace seeking idealists. I simply thought they were in a self deluded ideological coma. But they are wide awake and this is their war. So personally when and if one of these people get in my face like I see on Facebook(saw a Trump voter getting bullied at a bar), I'll give em their damn war. Dropped on the spot!

[CincyHorseplayer]

There are almost certainly people at the FBI, CIA, DOJ, NSA etc.. that are very political. Since Obama is president and some of his people are in power at these agencies, his agenda is what's generally going to get advanced. That will change somewhat when Trump takes over, but I really wonder if they are sitting on evidence and indictments now because they don't want Obama to pardon any of them. I actually read an article like that when the Weiner laptop case first broke just before the election. It said there was an internal debate at the FBI about whether to proceed with indictments immediately or to wait until after Trump was inaugurated. Unfortunately, it was one of those reports where "unnamed sources" within the NY police and FBI are telling people..... So who knows if it was true. I'm just convinced there was criminal activity exposed in the wikileaks emails. It's a matter if they have enough proof from the Weiner laptop to prosecute and whether these dirt bags are going to get away with it or have covered it up.

If this is a reality and I think it does have some teeth, this could be why we are seeing these desperate attempts playing out weekly.

[davew]

If this is a reality and I think it does have some teeth, this could be why we are seeing these desperate attempts playing out weekly.


I suspect many of the most dem-vocal may be part of the swamp that gets drained. I have heard they are already making a list of who I naughty and who is nice. Including many who have repeatedly gone to global warming summits.

So who is this CIA that has leaked to newspapers the Russians did it? Is it the head guy, a higher official, some lowly analyst?.... they don't say, but I am sure there are also those who say it could have been Chinese making it look like Russians as well.

[woodtoo]

I suspect many of the most dem-vocal may be part of the swamp that gets drained. I have heard they are already making a list of who I naughty and who is nice. Including many who have repeatedly gone to global warming summits.

So who is this CIA that has leaked to newspapers the Russians did it? Is it the head guy, a higher official, some lowly analyst?.... they don't say, but I am sure there are also those who say it could have been Chinese making it look like Russians as well.
Former Acting CIA Director Mike Morell a %100 political hack appointed to cover up the Benghazi fiasco.

[fast4522]

I wonder if Trump won't reconsider investigating the Clinton's after the way the left has attempted to undermine the election. Or perhaps draining the swamp at the CIA.

What I hope will occur is our next President tells each director your large and in charge and I will support your decisions and you. Then directing the AG to be non political in what is pursued.

[ElKabong]

If all the Russians did was expose corruption in the DNC, then I'm fine with that. Journalists and whistleblowers are supposed to expose corruption, but since they didn't....Well, either the media is in bed with the DNC, or they simply weren't doing their jobs

Simple as that.

[EasyGoer89]

If all the Russians did was expose corruption in the DNC, then I'm fine with that. Journalists and whistleblowers are supposed to expose corruption, but since they didn't....Well, either the media is in bed with the DNC, or they simply weren't doing their jobs

Simple as that.

The "media" are political operatives, bought and paid for stooges, towing a company narrative, nothing that comes out of their mouths is true, the epitome of fake news.

[davew]

Former Acting CIA Director Mike Morell a %100 political hack appointed to cover up the Benghazi fiasco.

He hasn't been there since August of 2013 - if that is the case, someone leaked what is probably classified information and they should look at putting him in jail - or is that what Washington DC has become. It is time to drain the swamp.

[woodtoo]

We can all sleep a little easier tonight the Russian hackers have been identified, turns out they have been hiding right under our noses for years...it is Boris and Natasha. Last seen in the company of one Rocky and some dude named Bullwinkle. :D

[classhandicapper]

If all the Russians did was expose corruption in the DNC, then I'm fine with that. Journalists and whistleblowers are supposed to expose corruption, but since they didn't....Well, either the media is in bed with the DNC, or they simply weren't doing their jobs

Simple as that.

That's the way I feel about it.

Had whoever provided the emails to Wikileaks exposed military secrets, put agents in danger etc... that would be a huge problem. But they didn't. They did us a favor by exposing the corruption within the DNC, the unholy relationship between the DNC/Hillary campaign and most of the media, and potentially very serious crimes by high level democrats (which are still not being covered accurately by the media). The more of that the merrier. They should expose the neocons next and then continue with the media. Personally, I doubt it was the Russians even though I am sure they hacked Hillary and had much of that info anyway. Assange said it wasn't the Russians and there have been rumors it came from people within the US intelligence community that wanted to make sure Hillary & and her corrupt crew did not come to power.

The left is blaming the Russians to discredit and weaken Trump by convincing people the election was not valid (same with the BS about the popular vote, recounts etc..). I guess it's also a Hail Mary play. If they could convince people the election was invalid they might be able to convince people to redo it. That won't work though. If they actually tried to pull that they'd have a civil war on their hands.

[lamboguy]

why would the Russians bag the election for Trump to begin with? they aren't getting sweet deals out of him like they did with the other guys. they got Uranium, Loral and other satellite's systems that they had no business getting in the first place. Trump gonna give them ice to take back to Siberia.

[Tom]

We can all sleep a little easier tonight the Russian hackers have been identified, turns out they have been hiding right under our noses for years...it is Boris and Natasha. Last seen in the company of one Rocky and some dude named Bullwinkle. :D

Release emails of Moose and Squirrel!

[classhandicapper]

Pat Buchanan nails it.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/12/patrick-j-buchanan/lets-get/

"What is going on here? More than meets the eye.

The people who most indignantly condemned Trump’s questioning of Obama’s birth certificate as a scurrilous scheme to delegitimize his presidency, now seek to delegitimize Trump’s presidency.

The Times editorial spoke of a “darkening cloud” already over the Trump presidency and warned that a failure to investigate and discover the full truth of Russia’s hacking could only “feed suspicion among millions of Americans that … (t)he election was indeed rigged.”

Behind the effort to smear Tillerson and delegitimize Trump lies a larger motive. Trump has antagonists in both parties who alarmed at his triumph because it imperils the foreign policy agenda that is their raison d’etre, their reason for being.

These people do not want to lift sanctions on Moscow. They do not want an end to the confrontation with Russia. As is seen by their bringing in tiny Montenegro, they want to enlarge NATO to encompass Sweden, Finland, Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova.

They have in mind the permanent U.S. encirclement of Russia.

They want to provide offensive weapons to Kiev to reignite the civil war in the Donbass and enable Ukraine to move on Crimea. This would mean a war with Russia that Ukraine would lose and we and our NATO allies would be called upon to intervene in and fight."

[reckless]

why would the Russians bag the election for Trump to begin with? they aren't getting sweet deals out of him like they did with the other guys. they got Uranium, Loral and other satellite's systems that they had no business getting in the first place. Trump gonna give them ice to take back to Siberia.

Good post, Phil, and I am glad someone else beside me has noticed this while commenting on the stupidity of Putin wanting Trump to win.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Good post, Phil, and I am glad someone else beside me has noticed this while commenting on the stupidity of Putin wanting Trump to win.
You can't think of a single reason Putin might prefer Trump to Hillary?

"Look at Putin -- what he's doing with Russia -- I mean, you know, what's going on over there. I mean this guy has done -- whether you like him or don't like him -- he's doing a great job in rebuilding the image of Russia and also rebuilding Russia period," Trump told Larry King on CNN.

But Trump refused to call on Russian President Vladimir Putin to stay out of the American politics and instead reasserted his desire to draw Russia and the US closer together as president -- building on a long-established track record of Trump's fondness for the autocratic Russian leader.

And many others. Whatever the underlying meanings, the overt message seems to be Trump is willing to start with a clean slate with Putin.

On the other hand, Hillary was no friend of Putin. In one of her last acts as secretary of state in early 2013, Hillary Clinton wrote a confidential memo to the White House on how to handle Vladimir Putin, the aggressive and newly reinstalled Russian president. Her bluntly worded advice: Snub him.

“Don’t appear too eager to work together,” Clinton urged President Obama, according to her recollection of the note in her 2014 memoir. “Don’t flatter Putin with high-level attention. Decline his invitation for a presidential summit.”

Doesn't seem that stupid that Putin might think it would be easier for him to work with Trump.

[PaceAdvantage]

So we continue to arm Saudi Arabia...continue to pay them for their oil...continue to be on pretty good relations with them despite the MOUNTAIN of evidence that they played a part in 9/11...


BUT HEAVEN FORBID Trump tries to improve relations with Russia...oh the HUMANITY!

[reckless]

You can't think of a single reason Putin might prefer Trump to Hillary?

"Look at Putin -- what he's doing with Russia -- I mean, you know, what's going on over there. I mean this guy has done -- whether you like him or don't like him -- he's doing a great job in rebuilding the image of Russia and also rebuilding Russia period," Trump told Larry King on CNN.

But Trump refused to call on Russian President Vladimir Putin to stay out of the American politics and instead reasserted his desire to draw Russia and the US closer together as president -- building on a long-established track record of Trump's fondness for the autocratic Russian leader.

And many others. Whatever the underlying meanings, the overt message seems to be Trump is willing to start with a clean slate with Putin.

On the other hand, Hillary was no friend of Putin. In one of her last acts as secretary of state in early 2013, Hillary Clinton wrote a confidential memo to the White House on how to handle Vladimir Putin, the aggressive and newly reinstalled Russian president. Her bluntly worded advice: Snub him.

“Don’t appear too eager to work together,” Clinton urged President Obama, according to her recollection of the note in her 2014 memoir. “Don’t flatter Putin with high-level attention. Decline his invitation for a presidential summit.”

Doesn't seem that stupid that Putin might think it would be easier for him to work with Trump.

Rich, maybe ... just maybe Putin, as you suggest, may have preferred President Trump to Hillary Clinton but to defend to some extent that he (the Russians) 'hacked' this election is laughable.

It is laughable at the margin and there is no such evidence of Russian (Putin) swaying and hacking the election. WikiLeaks email dumps of and to Podesta show there's no evidence that the Russians hacked Podesta.

But... could any one of those 33,000 emails that Hillary bleached bit to oblivion be a few from Putin -- with him thanking her for all the iron ore she (illegally) sold him? Or maybe there's one of Hillary writing to Putin saying, 'Thanks Vlad for the contribution to the campaign and the Foundation. Bill and I never forget our friends. Disregard what I wrote to Barry.' :cool:

[PaceAdvantage]

It's funny the fake news Obama and co. wants us to ignore, while at the same time see the fake news they desperately want us to pay full attention to...ie...TRUMP IS IN BED WITH RUSSIA...

But pay no mind to things like #PIZZAgate.... :lol:

[FantasticDan]

It's funny the fake news Obama and co. wants us to ignore, while at the same time see the fake news they desperately want us to pay full attention to...ie...TRUMP IS IN BED WITH RUSSIA...
But pay no mind to things like #PIZZAgate.... :lol:

http://ifthedevilhadmenopause.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Pied-Piper-Mom.gif

[Tom]

Ah yes, the annual DNC Parade!
Does the video show them go over the cliff at the end? :lol::lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Ah yes, the annual DNC Parade!
Does the video show them go over the cliff at the end? :lol::lol:Perfect!

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Rich, maybe ... just maybe Putin, as you suggest, may have preferred President Trump to Hillary Clinton but to defend to some extent that he (the Russians) 'hacked' this election is laughable.

It is laughable at the margin and there is no such evidence of Russian (Putin) swaying and hacking the election. WikiLeaks email dumps of and to Podesta show there's no evidence that the Russians hacked Podesta.

But... could any one of those 33,000 emails that Hillary bleached bit to oblivion be a few from Putin -- with him thanking her for all the iron ore she (illegally) sold him? Or maybe there's one of Hillary writing to Putin saying, 'Thanks Vlad for the contribution to the campaign and the Foundation. Bill and I never forget our friends. Disregard what I wrote to Barry.' :cool:
I'll admit that having spent a lot of my formative years in the middle of the cold war years, I probably have a bias with regard to the nefariousness of the KGB. Messing with an election certainly doesn't seem beyond their playbook. Did they do it? I don't have a clue, and you are right, we haven't come across the smoking gun. I just think Putin is that much of a devil that I wouldn't put it past him.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

So we continue to arm Saudi Arabia...continue to pay them for their oil...continue to be on pretty good relations with them despite the MOUNTAIN of evidence that they played a part in 9/11...


BUT HEAVEN FORBID Trump tries to improve relations with Russia...oh the HUMANITY!
Oh stop. You're as naive as a child if you think Putin just wants to be our "friend." He has one thing on his mind - a Russia that has the power once carried by the Soviet Union. He is a brutal oligarch who has proven over and over his aim is absolute power for Putin.

Saudi Arabia. Old saying. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Saudi Arabia is probably 80% Sunni. Iran is 90% Shia. Saudi Arabia provides a buffer against Iranian expansion in the region. Sometimes you hold your nose because the alternative is worse.

[davew]

You can't think of a single reason Putin might prefer Trump to Hillary?

"Look at Putin -- what he's doing with Russia -- I mean, you know, what's going on over there. I mean this guy has done -- whether you like him or don't like him -- he's doing a great job in rebuilding the image of Russia and also rebuilding Russia period," Trump told Larry King on CNN.

But Trump refused to call on Russian President Vladimir Putin to stay out of the American politics and instead reasserted his desire to draw Russia and the US closer together as president -- building on a long-established track record of Trump's fondness for the autocratic Russian leader.

And many others. Whatever the underlying meanings, the overt message seems to be Trump is willing to start with a clean slate with Putin.

On the other hand, Hillary was no friend of Putin. In one of her last acts as secretary of state in early 2013, Hillary Clinton wrote a confidential memo to the White House on how to handle Vladimir Putin, the aggressive and newly reinstalled Russian president. Her bluntly worded advice: Snub him.

“Don’t appear too eager to work together,” Clinton urged President Obama, according to her recollection of the note in her 2014 memoir. “Don’t flatter Putin with high-level attention. Decline his invitation for a presidential summit.”

Doesn't seem that stupid that Putin might think it would be easier for him to work with Trump.

Don't forget Hillary and 0bama giving money and weapons to the groups that they want to take out Assad, who Putin is protecting.

[elysiantraveller]

Just as citizen I'm in favor of investigation when a foreign power is suspected of hacking and perhaps attempting to influence our electoral process. It wouldn't matter which side that went towards.

Couple of interesting observations on here though. Why is no one concerned that Russia was very much in favor of a Trump presidency than a Hillary one. These are the same people that said Obama was soft on Russia. Then ask why wouldn't we want to have better relations with them.

It seems like some people are just parroting whatever sounds good at the moment and like they want a little bit of everything without vision.

[elysiantraveller]

It's funny the fake news Obama and co. wants us to ignore, while at the same time see the fake news they desperately want us to pay full attention to...ie...TRUMP IS IN BED WITH RUSSIA...

I don't think that he is in bed with Russia. What I do think though is the Soviets (really we might as well get back to this) would much rather wrestle with Trump than Hillary.

I think that's fairly telling overall.

Obama got pretty well out-maneuvered by the Cold War throwback KGB operative. This isn't particularly surprising as he much more seasoned in that realm than most. A lot of people we have on deck just don't compete with him geopolitically. That said he was very much more in favor of a Trump presidency than a Hillary one...

The only logical conclusion you can draw from this is that he views her as much more formidable than the President-Elect.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'll admit that having spent a lot of my formative years in the middle of the cold war years, I probably have a bias with regard to the nefariousness of the KGB. Messing with an election certainly doesn't seem beyond their playbook. Did they do it? I don't have a clue, and you are right, we haven't come across the smoking gun. I just think Putin is that much of a devil that I wouldn't put it past him.The only people who messed with the election were those, like in Detroit, who massively padded the vote count for Clinton...2.5 million popular vote victory my ass...

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't think that he is in bed with Russia. What I do think though is the Soviets (really we might as well get back to this) would much rather wrestle with Trump than Hillary.

I think that's fairly telling overall.

Obama got pretty well out-maneuvered by the Cold War throwback KGB operative. This isn't particularly surprising as he much more seasoned in that realm than most. A lot of people we have on deck just don't compete with him geopolitically. That said he was very much more in favor of a Trump presidency than a Hillary one...

The only logical conclusion you can draw from this is that he views her as much more formidable than the President-Elect.Really? Trump is surrounding himself with ex-military at every turn for his cabinet.

Do you really think Putin favored that kind of guidance over what Hillary would be getting?

[PaceAdvantage]

Why is no one concerned that Russia was very much in favor of a Trump presidency than a Hillary one.In the end, I think we'll learn this is way more myth than it is reality.

[elysiantraveller]

Really? Trump is surrounding himself with ex-military at every turn for his cabinet.

Do you really think Putin favored that kind of guidance over what Hillary would be getting?

In the end, I think we'll learn this is way more myth than it is reality.

Trump feels Putin can be our friend.

Hillary was convinced he is not.

I have absolutely no doubt that Putin was grossly in favor of a Trump presidency over a Clinton one. Insofar he endorsed Trump very early in the primary season.

Not wishing to get into a pissing match on the subject. The above are stated opinions from all three.

I think its just worth noting a major geopolitical opponent was greatly in favor one candidate over another.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Why is no one concerned that Russia was very much in favor of a Trump presidency than a Hillary one.


Because there is no evidence at all that he was.
Only speculation.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

In the end, I think we'll learn this is way more myth than it is reality.
The reality is that EVERY world leader has an opinion about whom they'd rather deal with, some with stronger opinions than others, but all for self-serving reasons. That includes Putin. Putin knew what he was getting with Hiilary. He had every reason to prefer Trump. Now whether he was willing to act on it during the election, we'll probably never know.

[OntheRail]

The only logical conclusion you can draw from this is that he views her as much more formidable than the President-Elect.

Right....

According you and other leftist boo who'ers along with most of the MSM the Russians hacked Hillary private server her staffs email the Foundation as well. Seems like a fertile load for blackmail. So by that logic and the past performance of Clinton's Uranium and other deals with them. Why would they view her as formidable.

Now if meant to say Formatible... then yes she is. She responds to one's fallowed by lots of zeros. :lol:

[Tom]

So Trump should not try to be friendly towards Putin, but he should do whatever to please the POS in charge of China???

Should Trump stop spying n Angela Merkel, or keep it up?
Is is OK to spy on our allies but not the DNC?

[elysiantraveller]

Because there is no evidence at all that he was.
Only speculation.


Again he endorsed Trump.

[elysiantraveller]

Right....

According you and other leftist boo who'ers along with most of the MSM the Russians hacked Hillary private server her staffs email the Foundation as well. Seems like a fertile load for blackmail. So by that logic and the past performance of Clinton's Uranium and other deals with them. Why would they view her as formidable.

Now if meant to say Formatible... then yes she is. She responds to one's fallowed by lots of zeros. :lol:

Again not a liberal.

Just making observations based off of statements by the people we are discussing.

Any of you are more than welcome to explain to me how you think our foreign policy should be shaped towards Russia.

I have my opinions and they are rooted in opposition and containment. I'd be happy to explain further.

[Tom]

Just as citizen I'm in favor of investigation when a foreign power is suspected of hacking and perhaps attempting to influence our electoral process. It wouldn't matter which side that went towards.

So Obama should be investigated for his interfering in Israel?

[Saratoga_Mike]

So Obama should be investigated for his interfering in Israel?

If you're an Israeli citizen, it might be appropriate to ask for such an investigation (by the Israeli govt). As an American citizen, his comments don't concern me too much (although I'd prefer he keep his thoughts to himself on many matters). You're an America Firster - surprised you don't see it that way.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

So Trump should not try to be friendly towards Putin, but he should do whatever to please the POS in charge of China???

Should Trump stop spying n Angela Merkel, or keep it up?
Is is OK to spy on our allies but not the DNC?
I just think when Putin sticks out his hand for Trump to shake he should check for a joy buzzer first.

[PaceAdvantage]

He had every reason to prefer Trump.Why is that? Everybody in the media, and the Trump-bashers, never failed to remind us all what a loose cannon this Trump guy is...how he's unpredictable and could nuke his next door neighbor if he felt slighted by them in any way.

Is that who you think Putin really wants in charge?

You Trump-deniers can't have things both ways. Either he's a puppy who will follow Putin around everywhere he goes, wagging his obedient tail, or he's a an unpredictable loose cannon buffoon who is very likely to get us into a war with Russia...or anyone else he deems worthy of aggression at the drop of a hat.

Which one is it boys?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why is that? Everybody in the media, and the Trump-bashers, never failed to remind us all what a loose cannon this Trump guy is...how he's unpredictable and could nuke his next door neighbor if he felt slighted by them in any way.

Is that who you think Putin really wants in charge?

You Trump-deniers can't have things both ways. Either he's a puppy who will follow Putin around everywhere he goes, wagging his obedient tail, or he's a an unpredictable loose cannon buffoon who is very likely to get us into a war with Russia...or anyone else he deems worthy of aggression at the drop of a hat.

Which one is it boys?

Trump is mercurial depending on how he is treated. If Putin continues to stroke Trump's ego, at least implicitly, I vote for the puppy dog. If Putin trashes Trump, all bets are off. Putin's smart (politically); therefore, I think he'll play Trump very well.

The real double-standard: Dems clamored for Obama's "Russia Reset" post-GWB. Now, Trump (effectively) proposing the same and Dems oppose it?

[rastajenk]

Not just the Re-set (which was poorly translated or bungled somehow), but there was the condescending reaction to Romney's remarks during the debates four years ago. Like he's the one that was clueless. :rolleyes:

[TJDave]

Either he's a puppy who will follow Putin around everywhere he goes, wagging his obedient tail, or he's a an unpredictable loose cannon buffoon who is very likely to get us into a war with Russia...or anyone else he deems worthy of aggression at the drop of a hat.

Which one is it boys?

Which would you prefer?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Why is that? Everybody in the media, and the Trump-bashers, never failed to remind us all what a loose cannon this Trump guy is...how he's unpredictable and could nuke his next door neighbor if he felt slighted by them in any way.

Is that who you think Putin really wants in charge?

You Trump-deniers can't have things both ways. Either he's a puppy who will follow Putin around everywhere he goes, wagging his obedient tail, or he's a an unpredictable loose cannon buffoon who is very likely to get us into a war with Russia...or anyone else he deems worthy of aggression at the drop of a hat.

Which one is it boys?
You've got to learn to tell the difference between the serious and the humorous. That was a riff on Reagan's trust but verify.

Why would Putin prefer Trump? If you don't think Putin preferred Trump to Hillary, you're in the minority. Hillary did not get along well with the Russians, and likely would not have cut them a lot of slack. Trump has spoken well of Putin, and his appointment of Rex Tillerson was a positive signal. I'm puzzled how anyone would think Putin would have preferred Hillary, even given the loose cannon scenario.

Don't throw me in with the Trump deniers. I was careful during the run-up to the election not to dis Trump, and even in this thread my comments are generally directed at Putin, who I think is never to be trusted. I've avoided making any prediction about Trump's presidency, and I have neither called him a puppy nor a loose cannon.

My opinion at this point is that given his cabinet picks I don't expect Trump to be a uniter. Whether to his credit or discredit, he seems to be tacking hard to the right. I expect those who oppose Trump will have plenty of ammunition to go after him, since at this point I'm not seeing a lot of compromise in the cabinet picks. I'm hardly a Trump supporter, but my opinion is based on my uncertainty about how well he will adapt to running an organization where (1) he has a really steep learning curve and already he has shown little patience for the dreary details of being the chief executive (e.g., intel briefings) and (2) he does not have the final say in the same way he does at Trump Enterprises. There is still the pesky Congress and Supreme Court.

I've said on a number of occasions that I was not fond of Hillary, and I'm not fond of Trump for entirely different reasons. If he's successful, great. If not, I won't be surprised. But the train has left the station. The Trump presidency will start January 20 and we'll know soon enough how things will go.

[PaceAdvantage]

Which would you prefer?ABC...anybody but Clinton, so either version is fine by me.

[TJDave]

ABC...anybody but Clinton, so either version is fine by me.

I get that. Except it wasn't just anybody...

We will get either version.

[rastajenk]

No, we won't. He will be pragmatic; that is about all we can ask for.

[Tom]

If you're an Israeli citizen, it might be appropriate to ask for such an investigation (by the Israeli govt). As an American citizen, his comments don't concern me too much (although I'd prefer he keep his thoughts to himself on many matters). You're an America Firster - surprised you don't see it that way.

I probably have as much respect of Israel as I do the US.
More in some areas.

I expect our POTUS to act with respect and dignity ( :lol: ) to our allies.
I have great respect for Netty - far more than any of the recent US leaders.
He is unafraid to speak the truth to the world, while our homeboy is shuckin' and jivin' around the country like some damn fool.

[classhandicapper]

Let's get real here and put the US propaganda about Russia to rest.

No one I know thinks Putin is a nice guy. He's a very bad guy. But he has a very good reason to prefer Trump on foreign policy and I agree with it.

Hillary is more or less aligned with the war mongering murderous neocons on foreign policy. Those crazies want to bring all the former Soviet republics under western influence and eventually into NATO. Trump does not.

The reason that is significant is that doing so puts Russia in a very precarious position when it comes to its own defense. It would be surrounded by NATO or at least west friendly countries. That's an intolerable position for Russia.

It provokes Russia into aggressively defending its interests.

It was the west that provoked the Russian invasion of Crimea.

We interfered and helped oust their democratically elected president with the goal of eventually adding Ukraine to our sphere of influence and NATO. Russia could not allow Ukraine to join the west and NATO. So it invaded and took the most strategic parts back.

If you are Putin and want to avoid a war with the west, the last thing you want is a bunch of psychopaths (like Hillary and the Neocons) in power in the US continuing to try to expand western influence and isolate Russia.

If I was Putin I would be in favor of Trump because it would reduce the probability of further conflict in the region over western aggression. . Sure Putin wants to expand his sphere of influence, but it's as much a matter of self defense as it is any grand designs of reassembling the Soviet Union.

[barahona44]

Let's get real here and put the US propaganda about Russia to rest.

No one I know thinks Putin is a nice guy. He's a very bad guy. But he has a very good reason to prefer Trump on foreign policy and I agree with it.

Hillary is more or less aligned with the war mongering murderous neocons on foreign policy. Those crazies want to bring all the former Soviet republics under western influence and eventually into NATO. Trump does not.

The reason that is significant is that doing so puts Russia in a very precarious position when it comes to its own defense. It would be surrounded by NATO or at least west friendly countries. That's an intolerable position for Russia.

It provokes Russia into aggressively defending its interests.

It was the west that provoked the Russian invasion of Crimea.

We interfered and helped oust their democratically elected president with the goal of eventually adding Ukraine to our sphere of influence and NATO. Russia could not allow Ukraine to join the west and NATO. So it invaded and took the most strategic parts back.

If you are Putin and want to avoid a war with the west, the last thing you want is a bunch of psychopaths (like Hillary and the Neocons) in power in the US continuing to try to expand western influence and isolate Russia.

If I was Putin I would be in favor of Trump because it would reduce the probability of further conflict in the region over western aggression. . Sure Putin wants to expand his sphere of influence, but it's as much a matter of self defense as it is any grand designs of reassembling the Soviet Union.
Putin is Stalin in a Saville Row suit.He has this fantasy (and that's all it will ever be) of restoring Russia as a world power.Many of the countries that were under the old CCCP are now free market democracies.And that's what is bothering Vlad.Russia has always been a grim, unhappy place with a gangster mentality on the part of its leaders, bothe the Czars and the Soviets.Keeping their boots on people's throats is a way of life.

If I'm Trump, keep Putin guessing.Visit Poland, Slovakia, Armenia.Celebrate Estonia, which is a prosperous, free, lovely little country.Too fu#€*ng bad if Mr. Sunshine's pride is hurt.Time to stop enabling him .

[EasyGoer89]

Putin is Stalin in a Saville Row suit.He has this fantasy (and that's all it will ever be) of restoring Russia as a world power.Many of the countries that were under the old CCCP are now free market democracies.And that's what is bothering Vlad.Russia has always been a grim, unhappy place with a gangster mentality on the part of its leaders, bothe the Czars and the Soviets.Keeping their boots on people's throats is a way of life.

If I'm Trump, keep Putin guessing.Visit Poland, Slovakia, Armenia.Celebrate Estonia, which is a prosperous, free, lovely little country.Too fu#€*ng bad if Mr. Sunshine's pride is hurt.Time to stop enabling him .

Trump wants to pull a Rodney King and 'just get along' with uncle vlad. Nothing wrong with that.

[barahona44]

Trump wants to pull a Rodney King and 'just get along' with uncle vlad. Nothing wrong with that.
Putin is the type that confuses being nice with being weak.The only thing Putin respects is raw power.Trump doesn't have to start WW 3 to keep him in check, just rattle his cage a little.

[fast4522]

I probably have as much respect of Israel as I do the US.
More in some areas.

I expect our POTUS to act with respect and dignity ( :lol: ) to our allies.
I have great respect for Netty - far more than any of the recent US leaders.
He is unafraid to speak the truth to the world, while our homeboy is shuckin' and jivin' around the country like some damn fool.

Both of you guys have strong points on this, I am also a big fan of the Prime Minister of Israel.

Some points that may be missed was Clinton tried to make Vladimir Putin look bad to his people, and in turn he handed Obama his lunch at every turn. The Obama strategy has been a complete failure in foreign policy, Clinton was a big player for the first half. Others can look for salient points, but a different strategy should be explored without trying to make Vladimir Putin look bad to his people.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

This happened to show ups on my Twitter feed. I'm only passing it along because it fits the thread.

None Dare Call it Treason
http://billmoyers.com/story/none-dare-call-treason/

[Tom]

Wow, what an ignorant SOB he is.
What we really is far less people like that ass-clown.

[woodtoo]

Just more fake news from the Crooked Clinton Crime Family, why else would
CIA head John Brennan and DNI head man James Clapper refuse to meet
with and brief Congress on their own claims that the "Russians hacked the election". On Monday they received a letter from House Intelligence Committee Chairman David Nunes requesting an immediate explanation and flat out refused to attend. This Administration is rotten to the core luckily for you Trump is in the process of draining this swamp by appointing
white hats to do just that. :ThmbUp: UNBELIEVABLE

[newtothegame]

The reality is that EVERY world leader has an opinion about whom they'd rather deal with, some with stronger opinions than others, but all for self-serving reasons. That includes Putin. Putin knew what he was getting with Hiilary. He had every reason to prefer Trump. Now whether he was willing to act on it during the election, we'll probably never know.
So, if what you all say is true, how does this jive with the fact that damn near everyone on the left (leading up to the election) was saying trump was a loose cannon who would start world war three??? How can he start world war three with someone the left now claims is his best buddy????? :lol:

[classhandicapper]

Putin is Stalin in a Saville Row suit.He has this fantasy (and that's all it will ever be) of restoring Russia as a world power.Many of the countries that were under the old CCCP are now free market democracies.And that's what is bothering Vlad.Russia has always been a grim, unhappy place with a gangster mentality on the part of its leaders, bothe the Czars and the Soviets.Keeping their boots on people's throats is a way of life.

If I'm Trump, keep Putin guessing.Visit Poland, Slovakia, Armenia.Celebrate Estonia, which is a prosperous, free, lovely little country.Too fu#€*ng bad if Mr. Sunshine's pride is hurt.Time to stop enabling him .

Of course he wants to expand the economic power and political influence of Russia. Every leader wants that for their country (except borderline treasonous people like Obama). But it's not all about aggression. It's also about defense. He doesn't trust the US or Europe any more than we trust him. So he can't allow the west to keep expanding it's sphere of influence all around him. He's essentially in the same position the US was in when the Soviet Union wanted to put nukes in Cuba and was trying to make inroads into central and south America. He's a rational guy and will respond rationally while also trying to improve his position.

Notice that the left and media (that's repetitive) is more interested in whether or not Russia gave all these emails to wikileaks than they are about whether US citizens were fully informed about the corruption of the DNC and possible criminal behavior by leading democrats and the Clinton Foundations that was exposed. Hardly a mention of the contents of the emails.

[MutuelClerk]

It's interesting when we invaded Iraq our intelligence said they had weapons of mass destruction that were never found. Intelligence was mocked for this. Now intelligence releases info that Putin was the main culprit in the past election and our intelligence is hailed.

[classhandicapper]

It's interesting when we invaded Iraq our intelligence said they had weapons of mass destruction that were never found. Intelligence was mocked for this. Now intelligence releases info that Putin was the main culprit in the past election and our intelligence is hailed.

Exactly. That's because it's politically motivated. They are trying to cripple Trump before he even gets power.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

So, if what you all say is true, how does this jive with the fact that damn near everyone on the left (leading up to the election) was saying trump was a loose cannon who would start world war three??? How can he start world war three with someone the left now claims is his best buddy????? :lol:
Your point is a non sequitur. What damn near everyone on the left AND right agreed on was that Trump was unpredictable, and yes there were some on both sides who worried about Trump having access to the nuclear codes.. Everyone also mostly agreed that Trump did not seem to worry about protocol. Now perhaps some people put those two things together in an extreme way, but what the nuts do on the left and right is often a small and barely relevant part of the discussion. How you could get from what I said - Putin preferred Trump to Hillary - to Trump and Putin would be best buddies baffles me. I have no idea whether Trump and Putin will form a deep and abiding friendship, and I have no idea whether Trump is enough of a loose cannon to start a conflict.

[PaceAdvantage]

Russia has been hacking the US for YEARS...where was the national outcry and Congressional investigations all along? Why is it only a concern NOW?

More BS...to undermine Trump...

The NeverTrumpers on the GOP side failed miserably. The Democrats and Hillary Clinton failed miserably. Everyone so far has FAILED to stop Trump. With one desperate bullet left, seeing they can't in reality stop him from being inaugurated, they will try mightily to undermine and delegitimize him at every turn.

Won't be the first time...they had a lot of practice back in the 2000 election.

If nobody was this worried about Russian hackers in the past, I see no reason to be worried about them so much more now.

Hell, Hillary was so NOT worried about Russian hackers, she set up a private, markedly LESS secure server in her home, instead of using State Department, markedly MORE secure systems. She wasn't worried, so neither will I be.

Nothing more than BS.

[classhandicapper]

Russia has been hacking the US for YEARS...where was the national outcry and Congressional investigations all along? Why is it only a concern NOW?

More BS...to undermine Trump...

The NeverTrumpers on the GOP side failed miserably. The Democrats and Hillary Clinton failed miserably. Everyone so far has FAILED to stop Trump. With one desperate bullet left, seeing they can't in reality stop him from being inaugurated, they will try mightily to undermine and delegitimize him at every turn.

Won't be the first time...they had a lot of practice back in the 2000 election.

If nobody was this worried about Russian hackers in the past, I see no reason to be worried about them so much more now.

Hell, Hillary was so NOT worried about Russian hackers, she set up a private, markedly LESS secure server in her home, instead of using State Department, markedly MORE secure systems. She wasn't worried, so neither will I be.

Nothing more than BS.

Absolutely.

Not only that, as Snowden demonstrated, we've been doing the same thing to both friends and enemies for decades.

[elysiantraveller]

Okay... While I appreciate you at least articulating an opinion I'm going to have the parse the crap out this for consistencies sake.

Let's get real here and put the US propaganda about Russia to rest.

No one I know thinks Putin is a nice guy. He's a very bad guy. But he has a very good reason to prefer Trump on foreign policy and I agree with it.

Hillary is more or less aligned with the war mongering murderous neocons on foreign policy. Those crazies want to bring all the former Soviet republics under western influence and eventually into NATO. Trump does not.

The reason that is significant is that doing so puts Russia in a very precarious position when it comes to its own defense. It would be surrounded by NATO or at least west friendly countries. That's an intolerable position for Russia.
So... real quick... the Iran deal...?

Iran is in a much more precarious position than Russia is. You are also the same person who has criticized the current administration for removing ABM systems from Eastern Europe.

It provokes Russia into aggressively defending its interests.

It was the west that provoked the Russian invasion of Crimea.
No... Russia wanted a warm water port to house their Mediterranean Fleet as well as for commerce purposes. They've wanted this for 150 years.

If you are Putin and want to avoid a war with the west, the last thing you want is a bunch of psychopaths (like Hillary and the Neocons) in power in the US continuing to try to expand western influence and isolate Russia.

If I was Putin I would be in favor of Trump because it would reduce the probability of further conflict in the region over western aggression. . Sure Putin wants to expand his sphere of influence, but it's as much a matter of self defense as it is any grand designs of reassembling the Soviet Union.
I bolded the one part because the phrasing of this is great. Psychopaths...

This isn't a Hillary or a Neo-Con thing. This has been United States foreign policy since Yalta in 1945. Opposition and isolation. Reagan did it... was he a psychopath?

[classhandicapper]

Okay... While I appreciate you at least articulating an opinion I'm going to have the parse the crap out this for consistencies sake.


So... real quick... the Iran deal...?

Iran is in a much more precarious position than Russia is. You are also the same person who has criticized the current administration for removing ABM systems from Eastern Europe.


No... Russia wanted a warm water port to house their Mediterranean Fleet as well as for commerce purposes. They've wanted this for 150 years.


I bolded the one part because the phrasing of this is great. Psychopaths...

This isn't a Hillary or a Neo-Con thing. This has been United States foreign policy since Yalta in 1945. Opposition and isolation. Reagan did it... was he a psychopath?


1. I don't recall ever talking about removing ABM systems from eastern Europe. You may be mixing me up with some generic conservatives.

2. I don't see any comparison between Russia and Iran.

3. Russia wanted that area for it's fleet because it is CRITICAL for national defense and commerce. They were not worried about it until we helped overthrow the democratically elected government and started talking about Ukraine and NATO. If I recall, it was Romney that first spoke about the strategic importance of that area to Russia in his debates. The media and Obama laughed at him.

4. What makes the neocons psychopaths (and Hillary the same by extension) is that they are so certain of their omnipotence they want to overthrow every government that disagrees with them no matter what the cost in blood, treasure, or anything else. They are so sure they are right they are willing to lie, cheat, and do whatever it takes to implement their plans. For them, the ends justifies the means. They are responsible for Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and if given the power they will engage Russia next. IMO, they are mentally ill people and a stain on the republican party (and democrats that are with them like Hillary).

That's an entirely different set of conditions than the period when the Soviets were aggressively trying to expand and we were playing defense to counter them because the free world was on the line.

Right now Russia's economy is in a shambles and THEY are playing defense.

Putin sucks. I don't like much about him. But he's being very rational if he prefers Trump. He needs to defend his country but he also wants to do business with the west. Trump will probably drop the sanctions and do business.

[Tom]

Putin sucks. I don't like much about him.

Put him next to Obama and Hillary and he starts looking much better.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

You know at some point you'll have to recognize that everything in the world is not relative to Obama and Hillary. Putin is a bad guy, and there really should be no dispute about that. And comparing Putin to Obama or Hillary is just plain dumb, not to mention un-American. At this point Trump will succeed or fail on his own policies and abilities. "He's better than Hillary" is just bullshit at this point. You want people to stop reliving the election - how about you stop acting like everything is all relative to Hillary and Obama.

Great. You won. You're happy about it. How about worrying about whether Trump is doing what's best for America.

[ElKabong]

Great. You won. You're happy about it. .

The above is all you need to know, Jethro.

The rest, much like your proclamation that Pence was dropping off Trump's ticket, is " bullshit", to use your term.

[EasyGoer89]

You know at some point you'll have to recognize that everything in the world is not relative to Obama and Hillary. Putin is a bad guy, and there really should be no dispute about that. And comparing Putin to Obama or Hillary is just plain dumb, not to mention un-American. At this point Trump will succeed or fail on his own policies and abilities. "He's better than Hillary" is just bullshit at this point. You want people to stop reliving the election - how about you stop acting like everything is all relative to Hillary and Obama.

Great. You won. You're happy about it. How about worrying about whether Trump is doing what's best for America.

A lot of this 'reminding' stuff stems from the poor sportsmanship your party and party's fans have displayed in the past month after the election. Why is saying 'congrats' on the win and moving forward so hard for some people?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

A lot of this 'reminding' stuff stems from the poor sportsmanship your party and party's fans have displayed in the past month after the election. Why is saying 'congrats' on the win and moving forward so hard for some people?
I've said on a number of occasions that the election is over and Trump is going to be inaugurated. But let's call a spade a spade on this one - saying Putin is better than Obama or Hillary has nothing to do with poor sportsmanship. And continuing to disparage Obama and Hillary makes you sound like poor winners as much as some others act like poor losers. If Trump turns out to be a good president it is not because Obama and Hillary suck. He'll be measured against an independent yardstick.

[classhandicapper]

You know at some point you'll have to recognize that everything in the world is not relative to Obama and Hillary. Putin is a bad guy, and there really should be no dispute about that. And comparing Putin to Obama or Hillary is just plain dumb, not to mention un-American. At this point Trump will succeed or fail on his own policies and abilities. "He's better than Hillary" is just bullshit at this point. You want people to stop reliving the election - how about you stop acting like everything is all relative to Hillary and Obama.

Great. You won. You're happy about it. How about worrying about whether Trump is doing what's best for America.

This is the comparison people are making.

People may not approve of Putin's KGB and communist past, his corruption, the way he maintains power etc... but there is one thing they are certain of. When he's done padding his own pockets and the pockets of his oligarch friends, he's doing exactly what he thinks is in the best interests of Russia. He's a nationalist.

Obama is an idealist and globalist. He assumes his own personal values are representative of what other people think, want, and should aspire to even when all the evidence is telling him otherwise. To achieve his goals, he is even willing to put the interests of the US and it's best allies BEHIND the interests of other countries, including on occasion obvious enemies. He's delusional and borderline treasonous. Hillary is somewhat better, but she's 5 times as corrupt.

What people want is a strong leader that will put the US first and foremost (like Putin), but without all the corruption and incompetence they usually have to endure and without all the downsides of an ex KGB commie dictator.

[davew]

A lot of this 'reminding' stuff stems from the poor sportsmanship your party and party's fans have displayed in the past month after the election. Why is saying 'congrats' on the win and moving forward so hard for some people?


No one has given them a participation trophy yet.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

This is the comparison people are making.

People may not approve of Putin's KGB and communist past, his corruption, the way he maintains power etc... but there is one thing they are certain of. When he's done padding his own pockets and the pockets of his oligarch friends, he's doing exactly what he thinks is in the best interests of Russia. He's a nationalist.

Obama is an idealist and globalist. He assumes his own personal values are representative of what other people think, want, and should aspire to even when all the evidence is telling him otherwise. To achieve his goals, he is even willing to put the interests of the US and it's best allies BEHIND the interests of other countries, including on occasion obvious enemies. He's delusional and borderline treasonous. Hillary is somewhat better, but she's 5 times as corrupt.

What people want is a strong leader that will put the US first and foremost (like Putin), but without all the corruption and incompetence they usually have to endure and without all the downsides of an ex KGB commie dictator.
I would disagree about his nationalism. Russia is a mess. The economy is in the crapper. They are under sanctions. He kills his political opponents, and you can't seriously accuse Obama of that. Putin has a number one interest and that is Putin, and to the degree his interests overlap with Russia's then maybe he's a nationalist. Putin's interest, as I have said, is making the new Russia have the influence and power in the world that the old Soviet Union had.

I just got done saying it's time to move on from Obama and his 58% approval rating. Judge Trump based on what he does, and judge Putin on what he does.

[EasyGoer89]

No one has given them a participation trophy yet.

Could you imagine if Trump had lost and he was doing the same exact stuff with recounts and conspiracy theories about russia and whatnut? The left would be off the rails saying how he should accept the election results, stop being an idiot, stop being a baby, grow up and own it. That's EXACTLY what they would say, every last one of them.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Could you imagine if Trump had lost and he was doing the same exact stuff with recounts and conspiracy theories about russia and whatnut? The left would be off the rails saying how he should accept the election results, stop being an idiot, stop being a baby, grow up and own it. That's EXACTLY what they would say, every last one of them.
1. He didn't lose

2. Who cares what the left would do if he lost.

3. You won. Stop bitching like you lost.

[Greyfox]

They are under sanctions.

Sanctions never hurt people in power. They hurt the man on the street.
Placing Russia under sanctions is cruelty to the average Ivan Publicksov, not Putin.

[EasyGoer89]

1. He didn't lose

2. Who cares what the left would do if he lost.

3. You won. Stop bitching like you lost.

Just trying to point out the hypocrisy, and you know, as far as bitching like i lost, stop being a sore loser and you won't have to keep hearing about how 'we' won.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Just trying to point out the hypocrisy, and you know, as far as bitching like i lost, stop being a sore loser and you won't have to keep hearing about how 'we' won.
I'm not a sore loser for the tenth f**king time. I said Trump won, I said he's going to be inaugurated, I haven't said anything negative about his potential presidency. I'm just tired of the continued BS about what would happen if it was Obama and Hillary had gotten elected instead of Trump. Show some class.

[barahona44]

A lot of this 'reminding' stuff stems from the poor sportsmanship your party and party's fans have displayed in the past month after the election. Why is saying 'congrats' on the win and moving forward so hard for some people?
Go to the search function, type in "2008 election", hit the 'Search Now" tab, go back to the threads from the year 2008 .It's like nothing has changed from this year. ;)

Why there's even a thread with the Nostradamus sounding title "Watch out for the Angry White Guys"! :D

And nary any words of congratulations.

But lots of poor sportsmanship.

The more things change....

[ElKabong]

[QUOTE=HalvOnHorseracing

I just got done saying it's time to move on from Obama and his 58% approval rating. Judge Trump based on what he does, and judge Putin on what he does.[/QUOTE]

58%? Where did that 58% come from?.... Polls, that's where.

Only lemmings and dumbasses now believe anything coming from polls. It would be nice if liberals could bring themselves to understanding that these poll #s they leaned on and shoved down America's throat is pure fiction.

58% = Fake news. Trump won, hide in the bushes and watch

[davew]

58%? Where did that 58% come from?.... Polls, that's where.

Only lemmings and dumbasses now believe anything coming from polls. It would be nice if liberals could bring themselves to understanding that these poll #s they leaned on and shoved down America's throat is pure fiction.

58% = Fake news. Trump won, hide in the bushes and watch

Probably from a poll of the democrat donors list.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Probably from a poll of the democrat donors list.
There's a whole world outside of PA where there is a diversity of opinion. Check it out sometime.

[ElKabong]

There's a whole world outside of PA where there is a diversity of opinion. Check it out sometime.

Sorry, CNN is reporting that Russia hacked and stole the non PA world. That Putin is a Wiley rascal...

[EasyGoer89]

I'm not a sore loser for the tenth f**king time. I said Trump won, I said he's going to be inaugurated, I haven't said anything negative about his potential presidency. I'm just tired of the continued BS about what would happen if it was Obama and Hillary had gotten elected instead of Trump. Show some class.

Unfortunately, your party and other Hillary supporters aren't showing class, they ARE sore losers and their sore loserdom makes YOU personally look bad, if you're one of the few who are showing class, congratulations, but there are too many who aren't, you are the company you keep, you can come over to the winning side, or have 8 years of pain, 2,920 days of darnkness, waking up 2,920 consecutive times and the first thought you have when you see the light of day is. "ugh"

Winners win, you can join the winners, what the hell do you have to lose? :D

[Tom]

He kills his political opponents, and you can't seriously accuse Obama of that.

True, but Hillary.......:eek:

[MutuelClerk]

This is going to get interesting. We are going to expose the things we've hacked from Russia, they will reply. Who needs wikileaks? Pass the popcorn.

[classhandicapper]

I just got done saying it's time to move on from Obama and his 58% approval rating. Judge Trump based on what he does, and judge Putin on what he does.

I could get better than a 58% approval rating if I had 90% of the media fawning and having wet dreams about me. ;)

I fully intend to judge Trump, but so far I don't see anything I don't like.

My only complaint so far is that I'd prefer someone less hostile to environmental concerns being in posts like the EPA and science, but I'm not sure having a skeptic is worse than having some that views climate change as a religion where all other views and priorities are secondary and where the assumption is we know everything about everything already. IMO, we need a good balance. I think the market is doing a lot better than politicians and activists on either side,

[woodtoo]

Obama draws pink line in sand again warning the Russian bear be afraid be...nevermind.

[Tom]

Obama draws pink line in sand again warning the Russian bear be afraid be...never mind.

He just got informed....

[delayjf]

He needs to defend his country but he also wants to do business with the west. Trump will probably drop the sanctions and do business.

We shall see, now that the left's narrative is Trumps is a pawn of the Russians, any lifting of sanctions or perceived preferential treatment towards the Russians will be met with cries of treason. But, Trump's is different than your average politician in that he doesn't seem to back down when he's attacked, he might just ignore the left, proceed with working with Russia, telling the left and the media to suck an egg via tweeter.

IMO, the left is try to delegitimatize the Trump Administration - they now have their primary talking point - Trump's in bed with the Russians. Fueled by fake news sites poring out conspiracy theories reinforcing the Russian connection, the left will cling to this narrative Like a pitbull with a bone.

[classhandicapper]

We shall see, now that the left's narrative is Trumps is a pawn of the Russians, any lifting of sanctions or perceived preferential treatment towards the Russians will be met with cries of treason. But, Trump's is different than your average politician in that he doesn't seem to back down when he's attacked, he might just ignore the left, proceed with working with Russia, telling the left and the media to suck an egg via tweeter.

IMO, the left is try to delegitimatize the Trump Administration - they now have their primary talking point - Trump's in bed with the Russians. Fueled by fake news sites poring out conspiracy theories reinforcing the Russian connection, the left will cling to this narrative Like a pitbull with a bone.

I agree with you.

The proof will be in the pudding. If he sits down with Putin and works out a deal to drop sanctions in return for Russia halting any military involvement in Ukraine other than Crimea (or something like that) that might be OK.

If Russia then makes an aggressive move anyway, then we'll know Trump has been "played" just likely everyone has been playing Obama. If that deal holds, then it will be fine. I see no way Russia gives up Crimea given that the west is hell bent on interfering in the former Soviet satellites. Of course if does that deal the Neocons will also be screaming treason because they won't be happy until we've gone to war with everyone, overthrown everyone, killed millions, and bankrupted the country doing it.

[Tom]

China just seized a US salvage drone in international waters.
Totally illegal - I would blow that freaking ship and every POS sailor on it to HELL.

When do we deal effectively with this worthless shit hole of a country???


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4041490/Chinas-Navy-seizes-American-underwater-drone-South-China-Sea.html

A Chinese warship has captured an underwater US Navy drone right in front of the eyes of the crew of an American ship in the South China sea, prompting a government official to say, 'they stole it'.

The way to deal with thieves is to kill them.
You cannot enough Chinese

[barahona44]

Unfortunately, your party and other Hillary supporters aren't showing class, they ARE sore losers and their sore loserdom makes YOU personally look bad, if you're one of the few who are showing class, congratulations, but there are too many who aren't, you are the company you keep, you can come over to the winning side, or have 8 years of pain, 2,920 days of darnkness, waking up 2,920 consecutive times and the first thought you have when you see the light of day is. "ugh"
Winners win, you can join the winners, what the hell do you have to lose? :D
Are you starting your own cult? :)

Also there's two leap year days you didn't include.Are those the 2 days Democrats are allowed to smile and sing in the sunshine?

[EasyGoer89]

Are you starting your own cult? :)

Also there's two leap year days you didn't include.Are those the 2 days Democrats are allowed to smile and sing in the sunshine?

I don't know much about leap years or leap days or leap seconds I just know what I've heard about 365. Simple math Watson! :D