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georgetkingiv
12-09-2016, 08:44 AM
Hello,

I have a few questions I am hoping a few folks here wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on.

Here goes.

1. I am new to handicapping and like to read. Can anybody recommend to me a few good books and magazines worth reading or subscribing to?

2. I typically place my wagers through TwinSpires. Is this the preferred place to play? Or is there someplace else everyone uses?

Thank you for your time

George

Secondbest
12-09-2016, 03:05 PM
Some books I like are
Any books by Mark Cramer or Andy Beyer
Modern Pace Handicapping by Tom Brohammer
Handicapping Magic by Michael Pizzolla
These are older books but I believe they are worth reading.
As you learn you will find the style { pace, speed, both together} that suits your personality the best. Good luck and welcome aboard

cj
12-09-2016, 03:16 PM
Hello,

I have a few questions I am hoping a few folks here wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on.

Here goes.

1. I am new to handicapping and like to read. Can anybody recommend to me a few good books and magazines worth reading or subscribing to?

2. I typically place my wagers through TwinSpires. Is this the preferred place to play? Or is there someplace else everyone uses?

Thank you for your time

George

There is a Handicapping Library section here. Expand it to show all posts instead of just the last months to "beginning" and you'll find virtually every book ever written on horse betting discussed.

cj
12-09-2016, 03:18 PM
Hello,

I have a few questions I am hoping a few folks here wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on.

Here goes.

1. I am new to handicapping and like to read. Can anybody recommend to me a few good books and magazines worth reading or subscribing to?

2. I typically place my wagers through TwinSpires. Is this the preferred place to play? Or is there someplace else everyone uses?

Thank you for your time

George

As for the second part, shop for the best rebates. Some are better than others.

Tom
12-09-2016, 03:34 PM
On the homepage, there is a box to some horse racing articles, including a couple by CJ.

Nitro
12-09-2016, 03:38 PM
Hello,

I have a few questions I am hoping a few folks here wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on.

Here goes.

1. I am new to handicapping and like to read. Can anybody recommend to me a few good books and magazines worth reading or subscribing to?

2. I typically place my wagers through TwinSpires. Is this the preferred place to play? Or is there someplace else everyone uses?

Thank you for your time

GeorgeI would personally suggest that you first read the “Racing Maxims and Methods of Pittsburg Phil, 1908”

http://colinsghost.org/2010/05/racing-maxims-and-methods-of-pittsburg-phil-1908.html

Some might suggest that its dated material, but you’ll notice later-on after reading newer publications that many of them just elaborate on these Maxims. There are also a few gems of worthwhile horse racing information that are either overlooked or just glanced over in later books.
Keep in mind that these Maxims were written after Pittsburg Phil had passed and he had nothing to personally gain financially or otherwise from any books sales. I can’t say the same about the authors of any newer publications.

ebcorde
12-09-2016, 04:27 PM
Hello,

I have a few questions I am hoping a few folks here wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on.

Here goes.

1. I am new to handicapping and like to read. Can anybody recommend to me a few good books and magazines worth reading or subscribing to?

2. I typically place my wagers through TwinSpires. Is this the preferred place to play? Or is there someplace else everyone uses?

Thank you for your time

George

Andy Beyer. He's written a ton, I think I started with Picking winners, it;s been ages.

There's a ton of guys, Some dead.
After a while you'll develop something that suits you. Because no matter the track the patterns are the same

in case you don't know:
The best Jockey and Trainers win most of the races (duh)
The best closers win most of the routes
The top early speed sectional last out in sprints win most of the sprint races
the last speed figure is best indicator of a horse's fitness

and stay away from maiden races if possible. skip them.
and stay away from chalk horses.

if you "Feel" something go for it, but if you have that "feeling" every other races drop the habit.


there that's my book
For The best pros it's a job , you'll spend 8-10 hrs a day handicapping a card, even after reading 20 books. I spent 4 hrs doing Aqueduct today.

if you decide to be serious then you just entered Handicapping college.
if a weekend player , the basics and the occasional hunch is plenty IMHO.


I started by covering up the track handicapper picks, handicap, then compare, took 2 weeks before I had the same picks.
The books are good for mining "opportunities" a 20-1/30-1 that no one else sees.

thaskalos
12-09-2016, 05:27 PM
IMO...the ideal book for a neophyte is Brad Free's Handicapping 101. Once that book is digested...Andy Beyer's The Winning Horseplayer seems to me to be the perfect sequel. After that, the beginner should start his own experimentation in the game...to find his OWN way...just as all the other competent players have done.

FakeNameChanged
12-09-2016, 05:47 PM
I would personally suggest that you first read the “Racing Maxims and Methods of Pittsburg Phil, 1908”

http://colinsghost.org/2010/05/racing-maxims-and-methods-of-pittsburg-phil-1908.html

Some might suggest that its dated material, but you’ll notice later-on after reading newer publications that many of them just elaborate on these Maxims. There are also a few gems of worthwhile horse racing information that are either overlooked or just glanced over in later books.
Keep in mind that these Maxims were written after Pittsburg Phil had passed and he had nothing to personally gain financially or otherwise from any books sales. I can’t say the same about the authors of any newer publications.
Thanks for showing that. Just read the 2nd chapter and it still applies today in spades.
To the Orig. poster, you might take a look at Steve Klein's: The Power of Early Speed and some of Wm. Quirin's books also. Too many to list.

CincyHorseplayer
12-09-2016, 06:09 PM
As a good and thorough and all round handicapping primer I would get James Quinn-The Complete Handicapper. Then Steve Davidowitz-Betting Thoroughbreds. These books are general and comprehensive whereas some of the other titles get into particulars of betting methods and intricacies of figures.

Good luck brother!

Lemon Drop Husker
12-09-2016, 07:32 PM
Welcome.

I play on Twinspires, and it is decent enough. Grandfathered in for my state, so I can't change if I wanted to. :(

Anyway, as for books?

I wouldn't read any books other than Poker books and understand Odds before anything with relation to horse racing. You need to get a thorough understanding of Odds and how they can play out in any environment.

While horse racing is much different, knowing the true "value" of each and every Odds play that is out there is as good a resource as you'll ever find. Why? At the end of the day, winning and losing at horse racing comes down to how you play the Odds in a mutuel pool of fellow bettors where the house takes at least 15% of every wager you make.

Simply put, a guy can pick 4 of 8 winners at a track for a single card for a single day and lose money just betting W tickets while another guy can hit 2 of 8 winners at the same track and make a 200% profit.

Nitro
12-09-2016, 08:12 PM
Welcome.

I play on Twinspires, and it is decent enough. Grandfathered in for my state, so I can't change if I wanted to. :(

Anyway, as for books?

I wouldn't read any books other than Poker books and understand Odds before anything with relation to horse racing. You need to get a thorough understanding of Odds and how they can play out in any environment.

While horse racing is much different, knowing the true "value" of each and every Odds play that is out there is as good a resource as you'll ever find. Why? At the end of the day, winning and losing at horse racing comes down to how you play the Odds in a mutuel pool of fellow bettors where the house takes at least 15% of every wager you make.

Simply put, a guy can pick 4 of 8 winners at a track for a single card for a single day and lose money just betting W tickets while another guy can hit 2 of 8 winners at the same track and make a 200% profit.Excellent point!
Because in reality no matter what you may read you’ll soon discover that there are 2 sides to this game: The Selection process and the Betting process.
To be successful I believe you’ll eventually need to recognize how to approach the game from the perspective of making valued plays. In order to do that re-read Lemon Drop’s post and seek information on Money Management.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-09-2016, 08:19 PM
Excellent point!
Because in reality no matter what you may read you’ll soon discover that there are 2 sides to this game: The Selection process and the Betting process.
To be successful I believe you’ll eventually need to recognize how to approach the game from the perspective of making valued plays. In order to do that re-read Lemon Drop’s post and seek information on Money Management.

Yep. Betting.

Pure and simple. Learn how to bet. Anybody can pick winners. The real question is "do you know how to bet"?

NorCalGreg
12-09-2016, 08:29 PM
if you "Feel" something go for it, but if you have that "feeling" every other race drop the habit.


...best advice yet :lol:

AndyC
12-09-2016, 09:17 PM
Yep. Betting.

Pure and simple. Learn how to bet. Anybody can pick winners. The real question is "do you know how to bet"?

I would add "know how and when to bet". A beginner approaching the game would do well by staying away from all of the handicapping books and start by getting an advanced understanding of stats and probability.

thaskalos
12-09-2016, 09:22 PM
I would add "know how and when to bet". A beginner approaching the game would do well by staying away from all of the handicapping books and start by getting an advanced understanding of stats and probability.

Wouldn't a beginner need an explanation of the "fundamentals of the game" before tackling the "stats and probability"?

2low
12-09-2016, 11:13 PM
I've often wondered what would happen if a small group of smart people who know nothing about horse racing took on the task of figuring out how to win using no available materials other than a track layout.

AndyC
12-10-2016, 12:28 AM
Wouldn't a beginner need an explanation of the "fundamentals of the game" before tackling the "stats and probability"?

NO! But you beg the question, "what are the fundamentals of the racing game?" What are the things a player must know to be a winner?

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 12:39 AM
NO! But you beg the question, "what are the fundamentals of the racing game?" What are the things a player must know to be a winner?

Please allow me to address your question with a question (or three) of my own:

What would you tell a neophyte GOLFER...who asked you for advice about getting "serious" about the game of golf? Would you hand him a bag of clubs...and tell him to figure the game out on his own from the start?

Are you a totally "self-taught" horseplayer, Andy?

Secondbest
12-10-2016, 11:32 AM
Anothef bok I forgot to mention is Class of the field by James Quinn.

AndyC
12-10-2016, 12:09 PM
Please allow me to address your question with a question (or three) of my own:

What would you tell a neophyte GOLFER...who asked you for advice about getting "serious" about the game of golf? Would you hand him a bag of clubs...and tell him to figure the game out on his own from the start?

Are you a totally "self-taught" horseplayer, Andy?

While I would love to go on and on about how to learn to play golf, I will spare everyone the misery. Learning golf and learning how to win at betting horses is not a good comparison. Although I love to gamble when golfing, it is not a game where (for most people) you would measure success from winnings or losses. Score is the measure.

If you come at racing from a stats and probability perspective the questions will ask themselves. There are many players who have read all of the traditional handicapping books who still can't figure out a path to winning. They don't know how to evaluate all the information crammed into their heads to figure out whether or not they have a good or bad bet.

Is there any such person who would be considered a self-taught horseplayer? You learn about the game from other players, books and observation. But learning about the game doesn't make you a winner.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-10-2016, 12:26 PM
Please allow me to address your question with a question (or three) of my own:

What would you tell a neophyte GOLFER...who asked you for advice about getting "serious" about the game of golf? Would you hand him a bag of clubs...and tell him to figure the game out on his own from the start?

Are you a totally "self-taught" horseplayer, Andy?

Well, as a player that went to college on a golf scholarship, I feel I'm a bit of an expert on the subject at hand.

Yes, I am one of those rare scratch golfers. I've won a few tournaments in my lifetime and play for money regularly on any given weekend. Umbriago, Nassua, Press, Double Press, Best Ball, Low Ball and anything in between. I actually entertained the thoughts of playing professionally at one time and then realized there were much much much better players than I.

As a self-taught horseplayer, I'm not sure I'd offer a different opinion other than digging in and figuring it out.

Smart people win. Losers lose.

green80
12-10-2016, 12:36 PM
I would personally suggest that you first read the “Racing Maxims and Methods of Pittsburg Phil, 1908”

http://colinsghost.org/2010/05/racing-maxims-and-methods-of-pittsburg-phil-1908.html

Some might suggest that its dated material, but you’ll notice later-on after reading newer publications that many of them just elaborate on these Maxims. There are also a few gems of worthwhile horse racing information that are either overlooked or just glanced over in later books.
Keep in mind that these Maxims were written after Pittsburg Phil had passed and he had nothing to personally gain financially or otherwise from any books sales. I can’t say the same about the authors of any newer publications.

I will have to agree with this post. With that being said, one may have to have some time as a horseplayer under his belt before he can appreciate how genius this book really is. The posters comment is dead on also.

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 12:36 PM
While I would love to go on and on about how to learn to play golf, I will spare everyone the misery. Learning golf and learning how to win at betting horses is not a good comparison. Although I love to gamble when golfing, it is not a game where (for most people) you would measure success from winnings or losses. Score is the measure.

If you come at racing from a stats and probability perspective the questions will ask themselves. There are many players who have read all of the traditional handicapping books who still can't figure out a path to winning. They don't know how to evaluate all the information crammed into their heads to figure out whether or not they have a good or bad bet.

Is there any such person who would be considered a self-taught horseplayer? You learn about the game from other players, books and observation. But learning about the game doesn't make you a winner.

This thread was started by a total beginner, who -- although he has developed a curiosity about this game -- doesn't even know about the handicapping books that already exist out there. He has come to us here looking for a book or two which may serve him as a "first step" in his horseplaying journey...and your initial advice to him was to "stay away from all the handicapping books and start by getting an advanced understanding of stats and probability". And yet...you state above that "You learn about the game from other players, books and observation". But you already told our beginner here to stay AWAY from the books...and to embark on his own journey of stats and probability...as if our neophyte here KNOWS what "stats and probability" you are talking about. My feeling is that you have forgotten what being a beginning horseplayer was like, Mr. AndyC.

Yes...learning about the game doesn't necessarily make you a "winner"...but "learning" is required as a first step. There are no shortcuts in these complicated games...you must learn to WALK before you can run.

Lemon Drop Husker
12-10-2016, 12:46 PM
This thread was started by a total beginner, who -- although he has developed a curiosity about this game -- doesn't even know about the handicapping books that already exist out there. He has come to us here looking for a book or two which may serve him as a "first step" in his horseplaying journey...and your initial advice to him was to "stay away from all the handicapping books and start by getting an advanced understanding of stats and probability". And yet...you state above that "You learn about the game from other players, books and observation". But you already told our beginner here to stay AWAY from the books...and to embark on his own journey of stats and probability...as if our neophyte here KNOWS what "stats and probability" you are talking about. My feeling is that you have forgotten what being a beginning horseplayer was like, Mr. AndyC.

Yes...learning about the game doesn't necessarily make you a "winner"...but "learning" is required as a first step. There are no shortcuts in these complicated games...you must learn to WALK before you can run.

OK.

If I'm honest Thask, I'd tell him to quit before he starts. That is the best advice I can give to 95% of the general public. Period.

Not only do you have to have a sharp mind, but you have to have an understanding of odds, and you have to be more patient than a stripper in church.

My advice? Don't start.

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 12:48 PM
I will have to agree with this post. With that being said, one may have to have some time as a horseplayer under his belt before he can appreciate how genius this book really is. The posters comment is dead on also.

What Pittsburgh Phil said in that book has been told by Tom Ainslie in better prose...and in much greater detail. Yes...if the player doesn't know that serious horse-betting is a game of discipline and concentration...then I suppose this book might be of some use to him in that regard...especially if the horseplayer isn't inclined to read Ainslie's weighty tome on handicapping. But the rest of the readers could safely ignore this "handicapping" book, without any prolonged regret...IMO.

Pittsburgh Phil was indeed a GENIUS, but, regrettably...he took his "genius" with him to the grave.

ReplayRandall
12-10-2016, 12:49 PM
OK.

If I'm honest Thask, I'd tell him to quit before he starts. That is the best advice I can give to 95% of the general public. Period.

Not only do you have to have a sharp mind, but you have to have an understanding of odds, and you have to be more patient than a stripper in church.

My advice? Don't start.

And this advice comes from someone who just hit a modest PICK-6 yesterday!....BTW, congrats on your hit, LDH...:cool:

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 12:51 PM
OK.

If I'm honest Thask, I'd tell him to quit before he starts. That is the best advice I can give to 95% of the general public. Period.

Not only do you have to have a sharp mind, but you have to have an understanding of odds, and you have to be more patient than a stripper in church.

My advice? Don't start.

That would be my advice too...but I wouldn't expect him to follow it. As I recall...more than one person advised ME in such a manner some 35 years ago...but I wasn't looking for advice of that sort at that time.

mickey_arnold
12-10-2016, 12:56 PM
Absorb the fundamentals and then do some reading on the psychology of handicapping, wagering and, most importantly, winning.

Also, after the preliminary stage of mastering the fundamentals,read Marc Cramer's book on Kinky Handicapping, as well as his other works. Being a successful contrarian can be very satisfying.

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 12:56 PM
And this advice comes from someone who just hit a modest PICK-6 yesterday!....BTW, congrats on your hit, LDH...:cool:

What you meant to say is that he hit a PICK-6, with a very modest INVESTMENT. :)

Lemon Drop Husker
12-10-2016, 01:08 PM
What you meant to say is that he hit a PICK-6, with a very modest INVESTMENT. :)

Blind squirrel. :cool:

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 01:11 PM
Blind squirrel. :cool:

I've read your stuff here, and have seen some of your picks...and you ain't so blind. :) Congrats on the nice hit.

AndyC
12-10-2016, 01:16 PM
This thread was started by a total beginner, who -- although he has developed a curiosity about this game -- doesn't even know about the handicapping books that already exist out there. He has come to us here looking for a book or two which may serve him as a "first step" in his horseplaying journey...and your initial advice to him was to "stay away from all the handicapping books and start by getting an advanced understanding of stats and probability". And yet...you state above that "You learn about the game from other players, books and observation". But you already told our beginner here to stay AWAY from the books...and to embark on his own journey of stats and probability...as if our neophyte here KNOWS what "stats and probability" you are talking about. My feeling is that you have forgotten what being a beginning horseplayer was like, Mr. AndyC.

Yes...learning about the game doesn't necessarily make you a "winner"...but "learning" is required as a first step. There are no shortcuts in these complicated games...you must learn to WALK before you can run.

Did Dr Z know how "to walk" or did he approach racing from a gambling perspective?

I am assuming that the thread starter wants to get into racing to try and win money. If I had approached my beginning years with a stats and probability approach, I wouldn't have wasted so many years going down dead ends. You need the tools to be able to analyze whether or not the info you are reading or hearing about gives you an edge or not.

AndyC
12-10-2016, 01:18 PM
Absorb the fundamentals and then do some reading on the psychology of handicapping, wagering and, most importantly, winning.

Also, after the preliminary stage of mastering the fundamentals,read Marc Cramer's book on Kinky Handicapping, as well as his other works. Being a successful contrarian can be very satisfying.

Please define "fundamentals".

Lemon Drop Husker
12-10-2016, 01:21 PM
That would be my advice too...but I wouldn't expect him to follow it. As I recall...more than one person advised ME in such a manner some 35 years ago...but I wasn't looking for advice of that sort at that time.

Ha ha. :lol:

I was 14 years old. My father introduced me to a racing form. It was a dog
race in South Dakota of all things. All he told me about was the speed figures.

I had $10 to invest, per say. I said "I like the 2 and the 4". Pops said we'll box them in an Exacta then. Which one do do you like more?" The 2, I think?"

:2::4: it was, and a monster was born. :jump:

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 01:25 PM
Did Dr Z know how "to walk" or did he approach racing from a gambling perspective?

I am assuming that the thread starter wants to get into racing to try and win money. If I had approached my beginning years with a stats and probability approach, I wouldn't have wasted so many years going down dead ends. You need the tools to be able to analyze whether or not the info you are reading or hearing about gives you an edge or not.

You COULDN'T have approached racing with a "stats and probability" approach from the very start...because, as a stark beginner...you wouldn't have even been AWARE of the fact that such an approach was desirable...nor would you know what this "stats and probability" approach even WAS. "Dr. Z" wasn't the "beginner" that you seem to think that he was...

Lemon Drop Husker
12-10-2016, 01:33 PM
And this advice comes from someone who just hit a modest PICK-6 yesterday!....BTW, congrats on your hit, LDH...:cool:

Thank you.

Not a huge score, but the Pick 6 is what is so fantastic. Walking on clouds today.

Not many people can say they hit a Pick 6. Not to mention a $24 ticket.

Bragging rights. :ThmbUp:

AndyC
12-10-2016, 01:50 PM
You COULDN'T have approached racing with a "stats and probability" approach from the very start...because, as a stark beginner...you wouldn't have even been AWARE of the fact that such an approach was desirable...nor would you know what this "stats and probability" approach even WAS. "Dr. Z" wasn't the "beginner" that you seem to think that he was...

Betting on racing is gambling! Probability has always been associated with gambling, so a stark beginner can always take that approach.

Are you suggesting Dr. Z could not have taken his approach without the requisite "fundamentals"?

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 02:00 PM
Betting on racing is gambling! Probability has always been associated with gambling, so a stark beginner can always take that approach.

Are you suggesting Dr. Z could not have taken his approach without the requisite "fundamentals"?

I am suggesting that William Ziemba was a 40-year veteran of the "gambling" wars...and he could assess the situation with an experienced eye. A true "gambling beginner" would have had a much tougher time of it...IMO.

You like asking us for definitions of simplistic terms such as the "fundamentals". How about if YOU supplied us with a definition of what you mean by "stats and probability"? Maybe, once you supply us with such a definition...the original poster here could decide once and for all if he is capable of utilizing such an approach.

You don't know what we mean by "fundamentals"...but WE are supposed to know what YOU mean by "stats and probabilities"?

traynor
12-10-2016, 02:22 PM
Hello,

I have a few questions I am hoping a few folks here wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on.

Here goes.

1. I am new to handicapping and like to read. Can anybody recommend to me a few good books and magazines worth reading or subscribing to?

2. I typically place my wagers through TwinSpires. Is this the preferred place to play? Or is there someplace else everyone uses?

Thank you for your time

George

While books may give colorful (and occasionally interesting) background material, the most useful information can most likely be found (in much more concise form) in the format of articles on various racing-related sites. An example:
http://www.brisnet.com/library/software/allnews/favoriteArticles/Final%20An%20Effective%20Pace%20Handicapping%20Pro cess.pdf

The series of articles on the above site will give you a running head start on an understanding of modern racing (as opposed to what it was in the old days when most of the books were written--before the Internet, before most handicapping software, before most computer use for race analysis).

After a day or two of reading the available articles, you should have enough of a grasp on the fundamentals to make sense of handicapping software. Several developers (HTR and RDSS come to mind immediately) offer free downloads, complete with a free mini-database of past races, and enable new users to sample their product's output ("predictions") billed as "handicapping aids" and immediately compare that output with the race result. BTW, HTR (and I think RDSS but not sure) offer fairly extensive collections of (relatively brief, concise, free) articles on handicapping in general, and handicapping with their products in particular.

AndyC
12-10-2016, 02:50 PM
....You don't know what we mean by "fundamentals"...but WE are supposed to know what YOU mean by "stats and probabilities"?

Probability is the measure of the likelihood that an event will occur.

Definition of statistics

1
: a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of masses of numerical data

2
: a collection of quantitative data


OK, your turn. Define the horse racing fundamentals essential to making someone a winning bettor.

mickey_arnold
12-10-2016, 03:14 PM
I don't think you define handicapping "fundamentals", as much as you describe what are recurring citations of what has been considered essential elements (speed, pace, class, consistency,form, recency,horse connections, race conditions etc.), throwing in the caveat that everything is relative and interrelated in this game. The latter is difficult for a newbie (and even many veterans handicappers ) to fully understand and apply in their race assessments.

Everyone has their own preferences as to what factors outweigh others and to what degree they should influence contender identification and wagering decisions. The basis upon what those preferences are made is a whole other matter and not what we are discussing here.

For me, another fundamental influence on the handicapping and wagering process that a newbie should be aware of (in its practical application), after absorbing the classic race factors, is the concept of cognitive bias. Cognitive Bias is a significant influence on the results of our handicapping and wagering decisions. I wish someone should write the Idiot's Guide to Cognitive Bias(or Cognitive Bias for Dummies) and have it appended it to Handicapping 101 along with a primer on the Theory of Handicapping Factor Relativity.

Hope that addresses your question

ebcorde
12-10-2016, 04:05 PM
they recently changed their site.

they used to have a Horses to watch list. Arrogate was on list in the summer, but I don't see it. I hope they bring that back.

It's good for newbies to learn Breeding like Pioneer of the Nile, Tapit When you get to Maidens you'll need it. When I started seemed like every Horse was out of Mr. Prospector and Storm Cat. Hell I;m a newbie, these guys here been racing for 70 years. Logically the big stakes races will have a lot of top breeds. That's why they cost so much.




http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/ (http:///www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/)


Equibase has a database for owners trainers etc. good for throwing out Horses with losing owners

http://www.equibase.com/stats/View.cfm?tf=meet&tb=owner&rbt=TB

AndyC
12-10-2016, 04:13 PM
I don't think you define handicapping "fundamentals", as much as you describe what are recurring citations of what has been considered essential elements (speed, pace, class, consistency,form, recency,horse connections, race conditions etc.), throwing in the caveat that everything is relative and interrelated in this game. The latter is difficult for a newbie (and even many veterans handicappers ) to fully understand and apply in their race assessments.

Everyone has their own preferences as to what factors outweigh others and to what degree they should influence contender identification and wagering decisions. The basis upon what those preferences are made is a whole other matter and not what we are discussing here.

For me, another fundamental influence on the handicapping and wagering process that a newbie should be aware of (in its practical application), after absorbing the classic race factors, is the concept of cognitive bias. Cognitive Bias is a significant influence on the results of our handicapping and wagering decisions. I wish someone should write the Idiot's Guide to Cognitive Bias(or Cognitive Bias for Dummies) and have it appended it to Handicapping 101 along with a primer on the Theory of Handicapping Factor Relativity.

Hope that addresses your question

Not trying to be argumentative but consider the following definition of
fundamentals. "a central or primary rule or principle on which something is based." Are there rules or principles that everyone can agree on with regard to speed, class, pace, etc? Quite the contrary, they are probably the furthest thing from a universal principle or fundamental. An individual may have their own fundamentals or beliefs from which they handicap but I don't think anything is chiseled in stone for all players.

NormanTD
12-10-2016, 04:19 PM
Hello,

I have a few questions I am hoping a few folks here wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on.

Here goes.

1. I am new to handicapping and like to read. Can anybody recommend to me a few good books and magazines worth reading or subscribing to?

2. I typically place my wagers through TwinSpires. Is this the preferred place to play? Or is there someplace else everyone uses?

Thank you for your time

George

Hey George, how are you doing? Still with us?

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 04:37 PM
If our conversation here doesn't convince George to skip this game, and find something better to do with his spare time...then NOTHING will.

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 04:41 PM
Not trying to be argumentative but consider the following definition of
fundamentals. "a central or primary rule or principle on which something is based." Are there rules or principles that everyone can agree on with regard to speed, class, pace, etc? Quite the contrary, they are probably the furthest thing from a universal principle or fundamental. An individual may have their own fundamentals or beliefs from which they handicap but I don't think anything is chiseled in stone for all players.

Whereas the "stats and probabilities" ARE "chiseled in stone for all players".

Which neatly explains why all these "database players" out there are looking for safe places in which to store all their racetrack winnings. :ThmbUp:

traynor
12-10-2016, 04:42 PM
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=allnews

ebcorde
12-10-2016, 04:56 PM
is allowing downloads of his information as a thank you.

http://saroman7.wixsite.com/dosage

NorCalGreg
12-10-2016, 05:04 PM
is allowing downloads of his information as a thank you.

http://saroman7.wixsite.com/dosage


ebcorde: your "signature"...Creedence?

cj
12-10-2016, 05:52 PM
is allowing downloads of his information as a thank you.

http://saroman7.wixsite.com/dosage


They were always free. I think he is just letting his web hosting agreement expire soon.

AndyC
12-10-2016, 05:54 PM
Whereas the "stats and probabilities" ARE "chiseled in stone for all players".

Which neatly explains why all these "database players" out there are looking for safe places in which to store all their racetrack winnings. :ThmbUp:

The tools of probability are the same for everybody, the ability to use them correctly are not.

AndyC
12-10-2016, 05:56 PM
If our conversation here doesn't convince George to skip this game, and find something better to do with his spare time...then NOTHING will.

If it does then it probably serves a useful purpose.

thaskalos
12-10-2016, 06:02 PM
If it does then it probably serves a useful purpose.
At least we agree on that. :ThmbUp:

CincyHorseplayer
12-10-2016, 07:33 PM
If our conversation here doesn't convince George to skip this game, and find something better to do with his spare time...then NOTHING will.

That's what I was thinkin he's thinkin, "..if being a successful horseplayer is being a highly intelligent and sophisticated a**hole, no thanks..". :D

JustRalph
12-10-2016, 07:34 PM
If our conversation here doesn't convince George to skip this game, and find something better to do with his spare time...then NOTHING will.

Reading my mind :lol: ;)

georgetkingiv
12-11-2016, 07:20 PM
Thank you for all the responses ladies and gents. I definitely intend to pick up and read a few of the recommendations you all posted.

Regards

George

P.S.

It was also amusing to read some of the passionate responses generated by this discussion. ;)

RunForTheRoses
12-11-2016, 08:20 PM
ebcorde: your "signature"...Creedence?

Dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-AhJhiBYxs

pondman
12-14-2016, 05:59 PM
Anyway, as for books?

I wouldn't read any books other than Poker books and understand Odds before anything with relation to horse racing. You need to get a thorough understanding of Odds and how they can play out in any environment.


I'd agree with this. Forget about reading books other than those that will familiarize yourself with the actual game. The games is a lot like soduko, you first have to get the puzzle started, and then you have to find a way to finish. Find a variable or combinations of variable that you think will be positive, and test them.

I'd approach this game a little differently today than in the past, and start with a more complex problem, such as picking a super box for .10 @ $2.40 per race. The game is now controlled by whales, so I don't believe the "Picking Winner" type books are useful. You have to have something different.

Most ADWs give away free stuff, lots of ratings, and commentary. Give it a try on paper for awhile before getting crazy, because the game will still be here when you are ready with your big wallet.

NorCalGreg
12-15-2016, 12:36 PM
Dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-AhJhiBYxs


there it is!