New Brisnet

[Longshot]

Anyone figured out what's going on at Brisnet with their new look?
Looks like they took the best and easiest PP downloads and tried to figure out
how to make it as difficult as possible.

How do you know now if the morning line is available in the PPs?
Looks like also they want you to completely set up your account all over again.

I'm lost and none of the handicappers I've contacted know what is going on.
It's a mess.

[linrom1]

It's a total disaster. They're making it easier for 'smartphone' users while throwing computer users under the bus. Fonts are UUUGE and there are boxes all over the screen.

Of course, FREE ARCHIVE CHARTS are also gone. Eddie Plesa said it best, "everything that Churchill Downs touches turns into shit.'

[PaceAdvantage]

Like most website overhauls, I suspect the things people are complaining about the most will be resolved....they don't want to drive people AWAY from their website...or maybe they do? :lol:

[cj]

Like most website overhauls, I suspect the things people are complaining about the most will be resolved....they don't want to drive people AWAY from their website...or maybe they do? :lol:

You have to admit it is pretty baffling. Is there no QA to test these things out?

I guess it is the Windows model, throw it out there and let the customers debug!

[Tom]

The charts and free stuff is still there, but you have to dig.
Go to goggle and type in, BRIS free software and you can get to it.
The old website is still around, in pieces, but apparently now direct link.
Go through GOOGLE and type , like "BRIS library" or "BRIS file structures"

This is my fault - a few weeks ago, I posted the BRIS was by far the best and easiest racing website to use.

I am so very sorry I opened my mouth, guys. :(

[2low]

Had to go to the old site to get the "Today's Changes" files that I use for scratches in my software. I really hope those make it to the new site before they scuttle the old one completely.

[mishka]

The custom card plan had a free feature open to anybody where you could find various types of races from any track using a variety of search criteria. For example, if you wanted to find all Maiden Claiming races at 6f with no first time starters. It is even gone from the legacy website from what I can tell. Looks like Brisnet threw away a very handy tool in eliminating the custom card plan.

Here is the legacy page, which itself is not up-to-date with search criteria.

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=customcardhelp

[TexasDolly]

The new site has also made any file downloading software inoperable such as robograb that Game Theory was good enough to make available to us some 7 years ago. I have used it at least
once a day since then and sometimes twice a day. I wasn't required to redo my account except for the password. It was a total nuisance to download them individually.The plan I have is still supposed to be in effect,but I have an idea it will be a mess as well.

[Jeff P]

Their new site also prevents the Brisnet File Downloader I created for JCapper from providing a machine assist to paying Brisnet customers who had been using it all these years to download .mcp and .drf single format files from the Brisnet site.

I called them earlier today to ask if there was any way they'd consider making the previous download page available. They told me the answer was "No."

I also asked them if they planned to do similar site changes to Brisnet Supertote. Here, they told me the answer was "No BUT..."

They went on to explain that their plans are to eventually integrate Super Tote into the Twinspires site...

Meaning that after they make the planned site changes for Super Tote: If you have a Twinspires account you'll still be able to access Super Tote.

But players that can't have a Twinspires account because of state residency reasons... Texas, Utah, Hawaii, Gerorgia, and others, etc...

THOSE players are going to lose the ability to access Super Tote once they finish all of the planned site changes.

Wonderful. Just wonderful.


-jp

.

[ldiatone]

yes i dont use bris to often but it is a bit strange to navigate. plus forgot my password and user name :eek: had to look it up on another computer. but i have a question what is difference between pp data file single and the pp data file multi? does the bris custom generator read them both? thanks

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Their new site also prevents the Brisnet File Downloader I created for JCapper from providing a machine assist to paying Brisnet customers who had been using it all these years to download .mcp and .drf single format files from the Brisnet site.

I called them earlier today to ask if there was any way they'd consider making the previous download page available. They told me the answer was "No."

I also asked them if they planned to do similar site changes to Brisnet Supertote. Here, they told me the answer was "No BUT..."

They went on to explain that their plans are to eventually integrate Super Tote into the Twinspires site...

Meaning that after they make the planned site changes for Super Tote: If you have a Twinspires account you'll still be able to access Super Tote.

But players that can't have a Twinspires account because of state residency reasons... Texas, Utah, Hawaii, Gerorgia, and others, etc...

THOSE players are going to lose the ability to access Super Tote once they finish all of the planned site changes.

Wonderful. Just wonderful.


-jp

.

What kind of business relationship do you have with BRIS?

Do you have a direct partnership agreement with them? Do you have a 3rd party agreement with them?

[Psychotic Parakeet]

It is nice to see a new "look" to the page, but I prefer the old 90's legacy site. It looks like they got rid of the Archived Data File Menu on the new one as well. Good thing I grabbed some old PPs off of that before the switch.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

It is nice to see a new "look" to the page, but I prefer the old 90's legacy site. It looks like they got rid of the Archived Data File Menu on the new one as well. Good thing I grabbed some old PPs off of that before the switch.

Twinspires is good.

Obviously they had a solid and good working business relationship with BRIS. The rest? :eek:

[Jeff P]

What kind of business relationship do you have with BRIS?

Do you have a direct partnership agreement with them? Do you have a 3rd party agreement with them?
No formal agreement with Brisnet whatsoever.

I'm just a guy who wrote a database enabled handicapping app that has the ability to use their .mcp, .drf, and .xrd files.

I stopped using their data and switched to HDW (Handicappers Data Warehouse) shortly after the original owners sold the business to Churchill.

And I've never looked back.

But I do still make an effort to support those among my original customer base who continue to use Brisnet data.



-jp

.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

No formal agreement with Brisnet whatsoever.

I'm just a guy who wrote a database enabled handicapping app that has the ability to use their .mcp, .drf, and .xrd files.

I stopped using their data and switched to HDW (Handicappers Data Warehouse) shortly after the original owners sold the business to Churchill.

And I've never looked back.

But I do still make an effort to support those among my original customer base who continue to use Brisnet data.



-jp

.

Well..., at least you are good. :D

You do have a partnership 3rd party agreement with the HDW then, right?

[Jeff P]

Yes.


-jp

.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Yes.


-jp

.

NDA's? And the ability to actually advertise the partnership? Much less your own product?

[Jeff P]

Absolutely.


-jp

.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Absolutely.


-jp

.

Tough business.

Would you sell?

[Vinman]

Now when I go to display Ultimate pp's on my iPad, up pops "downloading application" with that circular motion thing that goes on forever. Any iPad users out there....or any tablet users for that matter....able to display Ultimate pp's with comments under the new format?

Vinman

[Jeff P]

Tough business.

Would you sell?

Nope.

-jp

.

[rsetup]

Their new site also prevents the Brisnet File Downloader I created for JCapper from providing a machine assist to paying Brisnet customers who had been using it all these years to download .mcp and .drf single format files from the Brisnet site.

I called them earlier today to ask if there was any way they'd consider making the previous download page available. They told me the answer was "No."



Why wouldn't the new site allow for automated file downloads? Assuming this wouldn't be for a large number of files over a small time frame.

[Tom]

It is nice to see a new "look" to the page, but I prefer the old 90's legacy site. It looks like they got rid of the Archived Data File Menu on the new one as well. Good thing I grabbed some old PPs off of that before the switch.

http://www.brisnet.com/php/archive_first.php

[takeout]

A friend that uses the Multicaps files said that they were raised from $2 to $5. I thought he was kidding. Seriously.
(I wouldn't pay $2 for them but that's just me.)
Didn't those things used to be like 50 cents before CDI got a hold of them?

[Tom]

Yes....250% price increase.

Way to go, BRISNUT.

[ebcorde]

other than that it's same old. Only thing that ticked me off was re-entering CC info. I avoid using CC's online. I use those throw-away credit cards or bitcoin online when possible.

[ebcorde]

Yes....250% price increase.

Way to go, BRISNUT.

wtf you talking about?

I still get the 20% discount of single file format.

[ebcorde]

A friend that uses the Multicaps files said that they were raised from $2 to $5. I thought he was kidding. Seriously.
(I wouldn't pay $2 for them but that's just me.)
Didn't those things used to be like 50 cents before CDI got a hold of them?


Years ago Multicaps was very close to single file format/ Close enough to run it on a program designed for single file format. And yes , the old TSN-something was 50 cents.

I spoke to those guys a few weeks ago. some programs have not been touched since their old developer died. They have no one to fix bugs , no developer support, that's what they told me. The guy who wrote the single flat file format died. I found out because I use Bris custom file generator for debugging and I found 2 bugs, one was mine, one theirs that can never be fixed because the Jockey club won't fix it (or so they told me), They said "oh that programmer died" any ever see single file format, it's a wall of commas...

[ebcorde]

an old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it". that was my first thought when I saw the new design.

With today's web programming I would have been terrified to bring that into Production on short notice. Currently I'm doing Kodi developer support for a hobby. There are so many platforms and 3rd party tools out there my head spins.

[Parson]

FYI, if you are downloading the pps and betting on twinspires. You will now be charged if you download them from Brisnet. If you download them from Twinspires, they are still free but the two accounts are no longer linked. They will still be free from twinspires if you wager, but if you download and do not, then the cost is taken from your twinspires account.

At least this is what I was told yesterday when I call the customer service number. Customer Service :lol:

[ebcorde]

FYI, if you are downloading the pps and betting on twinspires. You will now be charged if you download them from Brisnet. If you download them from Twinspires, they are still free but the two accounts are no longer linked. They will still be free from twinspires if you wager, but if you download and do not, then the cost is taken from your twinspires account.

At least this is what I was told yesterday when I call the customer service number. Customer Service :lol:


I always assumed that. instead of calling I read their notes on the new app and it's changes. well I don't think they mentioned that one, hmmm.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

FYI, if you are downloading the pps and betting on twinspires. You will now be charged if you download them from Brisnet. If you download them from Twinspires, they are still free but the two accounts are no longer linked. They will still be free from twinspires if you wager, but if you download and do not, then the cost is taken from your twinspires account.

At least this is what I was told yesterday when I call the customer service number. Customer Service :lol:

Been that way for well over a year on Twinspires.

[egreen]

Anyone know where to find the weekly speed by circuit figs on the new site? I emailed them and posted in a comment area but got no response. They probably just stopped them and refuse to acknowledge that.

[ebcorde]

just downloaded AQU and FG and there many more steps to initiate to download a file. Not user friendly at all. and check your prices. I think they forget to apply the discounts yesterday.

[Rise Over Run]

Yes....250% price increase.

Way to go, BRISNUT.
Technically it's only a 150% increase in price.

Disclaimer - I don't work for Brisnet.

[Tom]

Anyone know where to find the weekly speed by circuit figs on the new site? I emailed them and posted in a comment area but got no response. They probably just stopped them and refuse to acknowledge that.

Gotta go to the old site and go into Bloodstock Jornal

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/journal/full_edition.cgi

[PhantomOnTour]

At least they chose to roll out the new website during a slow time of the year. Other entities like NYRA and DRF seem to think that the beginning of the Saratoga meet is the best time to overhaul their websites.

But yeah, can't anybody test the site and debug BEFORE rolling it out?

[rsetup]

At least they chose to roll out the new website during a slow time of the year. Other entities like NYRA and DRF seem to think that the beginning of the Saratoga meet is the best time to overhaul their websites.

But yeah, can't anybody test the site and debug BEFORE rolling it out?

I don't think there's any doubt that they tested the site before implementing it. But that sense of 'testing' and what you and the others have in mind is not the same thing. They're testing for functionality not congruence with previous versions. To do that, they'd need testers that are also horseplayers and they're not going to pay for that. To BRIS defense: this happens all the time.

[Tom]

Yeah, POT, they did mean to piss off their customer.
I bet their customers never crossed their minds.

[cj]

I've done web design professionally in the past. From experience I can tell you one of the biggest mistakes somebody building a website can make is building what they think customers will like instead of finding out what they actually want and need.

Said another way, don't build the website for yourself, build it for customers. Plenty of places use beta testers for websites and software for just such purposes.

[wisconsin]

So I thought I would check it out, clicked on PP's just now and got this message 3 times in a row:

An error occurred while processing your request.
Reference #97.888bccc.1481222870.1e1c0be

Wow. :bang:

[beaucap]

So I thought I would check it out, clicked on PP's just now and got this message 3 times in a row:

An error occurred while processing your request.
Reference #97.888bccc.1481222870.1e1c0be

Wow. :bang:
Probably reading P.A.....Mistakes you guys are helping them with

[PaceAdvantage]

I would suggest everyone check their account statements and make sure you're not being double charged or worse when you get errors like the above.

[beaucap]

I would suggest everyone check their account statements and make sure you're not being double charged or worse when you get errors like the above.

Every time i download a file...they send me an email of my invoice

[JohnGalt1]

I discovered the new site yesterday.

I had to call them twice. 20 minute on hold, then 5 minute wait.

First we now have to change password and enter credit card data.

Then finding the comma delimited files was difficult for me.

ONE SUGGESTION I made was make it easier to see the dates. I had to scroll up and down to know what date I was downloading. The old system listed dates as 7p so I knew I was downloading the 7th of the month.

And I have to enter my 3 digit security code with each purchase.

It's a lot of extra steps. It feels like ordering from Amazon, but more complex.

If I get too aggravated, at least there are other pp suppliers.

[2low]

So I thought I would check it out, clicked on PP's just now and got this message 3 times in a row:

An error occurred while processing your request.
Reference #97.888bccc.1481222870.1e1c0be

Wow. :bang:

For the data files, I get an error if I try to download while not logged in. On the old site, it would prompt me to log in after clicking on the first file.

If I log in first, then download, no issues.

[PaceAdvantage]

Every time i download a file...they send me an email of my invoiceYes...and I'm suggesting that with this recent switch over, people be a little more vigilant in making sure all charges are correct.

[Tom]

I used to click on a file and get it.
Now i have to fill a cart and then go check out.

I think I will just check out of BRIS....this is pathetic.

They show me as not having bought anything - ever.
Going through the CC statements with a Conte-Eye glass tonight.

I'm sure Ed will be on ATR Friday reporting how great the new site is! :rolleyes:

[Red Knave]

Said another way, don't build the website for yourself, build it for customers. Plenty of places use beta testers for websites and software for just such purposes.
This sounds like a perfect opportunity for some new company that has PPs to figure out how to format and sell their data for download. ;)

[wisconsin]

For the data files, I get an error if I try to download while not logged in. On the old site, it would prompt me to log in after clicking on the first file.

If I log in first, then download, no issues.

Yeah, works now...

[horseplayer]

It's a total disaster. They're making it easier for 'smartphone' users while throwing computer users under the bus. Fonts are UUUGE and there are boxes all over the screen.

Of course, FREE ARCHIVE CHARTS are also gone. Eddie Plesa said it best, "everything that Churchill Downs touches turns into shit.'

Once you log on -- click "more" and then click "library of items" - this will get you to the old site and from there you can get chart archives

[The Hawk]

Going through the CC statements with a Conte-Eye glass tonight.


Almost glossed over this gem! :lol:

[Southbaygent]

This really feels like a clusterf**k
I just download single file PP's, added many steps and don't bother sling me *where* I want files downloaded. Ugh

What a way to sport that business model and blow away customers

[dlivery]

Just makes thing WORSE than ever. :bang:
We are paying the freight
With out customers Im afraid to :bang: ask what would happen

[infrontby1]

And how do you know when the data files/PP's are final?

Didn't they use to post a 'p' next to the date to designate this?

[Mulerider]

And how do you know when the data files/PP's are final?

Didn't they use to post a 'p' next to the date to designate this?

I called about that very issue yesterday. I was told it would be resolved "soon."

Mule

[infrontby1]

I called about that very issue yesterday. I was told it would be resolved "soon."

Mule
Thanks Mule.

Let's keep our fingers crossed

[infrontby1]

And I assume PP's are still free when making wagers on Twinspires?

Reason I ask is because I already see a pending charge on my CC after downloading some PP's for Saturday.

[tophatmert]

And I assume PP's are still free when making wagers on Twinspires?

Reason I ask is because I already see a pending charge on my CC after downloading some PP's for Saturday.
Must be downloaded from Twinspires site not from Brisnet site

[infrontby1]

Must be downloaded from Twinspires site not from Brisnet site
Has that policy changed?

I would always order advance PP's from brisnet, make wagers through T/S on race day and would never see a charge on my brisnet account.

[Fox]

Just checked out the new site. Not sure if anyone commented on this yet, but style wise, their new site seems too similar to Drf. Open both home pages in a browser and put them next to each other and you can't easily differentiate which is which if not for the logos. Both have a lot of red blocking with white text and the dark blocking along the top with white text. Logos are in the same spot with a banner ad to right and both logos are red and black. 2/3 split on the page to the left and 1/3 to right.

Prior to change, there was no mistaking one for the other. Not a big deal, but I would think you would want to visually differentiate yourself from a major competitor.

[AltonKelsey]

Maybe they bought the shell web page code at the same flea market ?

[redeye007]

I thought something was wrong because I reset all my Chrome settings on this computer when I went to Brisnets site. I then tried 3 more computers with different O/S 's and it was the same. It was a bit confusing trying to download a card for tomorrow. I had to create a new password as mine was too short and enter payment information. I didn't like it. My software program parses the race results but now that is totally useless so no more results unless the author does an upgrade. the new Brisnet will take some getting use to. It appears to be geared toward Android. Oh well. Bris finally moved towards the future :mad:

[upthecreek]

I thought something was wrong because I reset all my Chrome settings on this computer when I went to Brisnets site. I then tried 3 more computers with different O/S 's and it was the same. It was a bit confusing trying to download a card for tomorrow. I had to create a new password as mine was too short and enter payment information. I didn't like it. My software program parses the race results but now that is totally useless so no more results unless the author does an upgrade. the new Brisnet will take some getting use to. It appears to be geared toward Android. Oh well. Bris finally moved towards the future :mad:

I dont see that Flash Results anymore that I use for 2 programs??? :bang:

[EJXD2]

I'm sure Ed will be on ATR Friday reporting how great the new site is! :rolleyes:

Confirmed

[tophatmert]

Has that policy changed?

I would always order advance PP's from brisnet, make wagers through T/S on race day and would never see a charge on my brisnet account.
It is a policy change and it is explained somewhere on the new site. I will find the new policy and post it later but you should be able to find it.

[Tom]

Customer service.....the hallmark of a reliable provider.:rolleyes:

Guess the attitude is free of charge.

[EJXD2]

It is a policy change and it is explained somewhere on the new site. I will find the new policy and post it later but you should be able to find it.

Yes... we still offer PPs free when you wager via TwinSpires.com, but those past performances (and/or Insider Picks & Power Plays) must be accessed via TwinSpires.com/handicapping.

[tophatmert]

Yes... we still offer PPs free when you wager via TwinSpires.com, but those past performances (and/or Insider Picks & Power Plays) must be accessed via TwinSpires.com/handicapping.
Can I get my money back for the day I ordered through Brisnet?

[EJXD2]

Can I get my money back for the day I ordered through Brisnet?

Yes, absolutely. E-mail me! Ed-dot-DeRosa-at-Brisnet-dot-com.

EdD

[egreen]

Thanks, but when you click on the circuits you just go to some story about Beholder. Would sure appreciate it if someone from Brisnet would reply instead of ignoring this.

[ebcorde]

I've received an invoice with Payment settled for each transaction, they're not doing it once a month.

I put in a complaint that I think they will address quickly , but until then

For each download they debit your credit card ASAP, I use a Bank debit card. Make sure you have sufficient funds in your account or the Bank will take out $35 bucks for each download for insufficient funds

[Harvhorse]

Are the charts in p.p format still availible, how do you finf them?

[Mulerider]

Has anyone tried to find the "Custom Card" feature that lets you filter the types and conditions of races you want to download? I can't find it anywhere.

[JDL]

Yesterday I received a call from TwinSpre concerning the email below. No reply was provided by Brisnet. I was told by a Rep from Twinspire that I could download the data files I needed from TwinSpires website and it would be charged to my wagering account.

I’ve signed on to my account at TwinSprires..


I just tried to download results files for yesterdays races and I got a screen wanting credit card information. There is nothing on the screen to charge to your wagering account.

Please see screen shot below and advise. (screen shot left of the post)







From: Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2016 11:18 AM
To: 'player.services@twinspires.com'
Subject: FYI

This is ________. I’m a long time VIP customer.

The new brisnet web site has been a problem for me. My software had a downloader built-in ( JCapper). Everything worked great for many, many, years. Not anymore.

This morning the account reset would not work. Someone at BRIS had to reset. I was on the phone for 3o minutes just on hold.

My credit card used to be charged at the end of the month, one time charge monthly. Now the card is charged per checkout.

My order of 7 DRF style cards for today went through with 3 cards and rejected with 4 cards. I just received a call from the credit card company saying there was fraudulent activity on my credit card because of these daily small charges for the PP files single ($.80). I can’t live with this brisnet accounting change.

I’m not happy about these changes and the way they have affected me today. Changing to Handicappers Data Warehouse for data downloads is an option for me.

I’m considering dropping my Twin Spires online Account as well. I know brisnet and Twin Spires have a relationship under Churchdowns. Inc.. I spoke with ______(private)

[Tom]

BRIS obviously not very bright folks.
Not even enough customer-respect to answer questions, both email and here.

Time to make a switch - how can you do business with internet cretins who have no respect for their customers?

[Tom]

My order of 7 DRF style cards for today went through with 3 cards and rejected with 4 cards. I just received a call from the credit card company saying there was fraudulent activity on my credit card because of these daily small charges for the PP files single ($.80). I can’t live with this brisnet accounting change.

I’m not happy about these changes and the way they have affected me today. Changing to Handicappers Data Warehouse for data downloads is an option for me.

That is a deal breaker for me.
Must be they need money really fast theses days - can't wait til the end of the month. Must be betting their own pathetic picks! :lol: :lol: :lol:

HDW is a reliable place - they have something BRIS does not - Quality Control.
I hope this thing seriously cuts into their business. They do not deserve loyal customers.

[cnollfan]

I feel for the players who have programs that no longer work with the new Brisnet. For me it is just a hassle and inconvenience but one I can adjust to.

As far as I know there was zero heads-up given about changes in the offing. One day I woke up and it was all different.

[therussmeister]

Must be they need money really fast theses days - can't wait til the end of the month.
Perhaps they were getting burned too often by customers that did not have the money at the end of the month.
Before I started using BRIS I downloaded a few DRF pdf PPs, they always charged my card on a daily basis and at the time I preferred it that way. Now I am indifferent. But will I still get a refund for cancelled cards?

[2low]

This fiasco is exactly what I always think about whenever somebody starts a thread about relying on handicapping for a living. I would never never ever ever be able to trust what is out of my control enough to pull the trigger if I had the option. It doesn't take much for a third party to screw the whole thing up - government overstepping their bounds or service providers deciding they don't need me can take it all away in a second.

So far, I'm lucky regarding Brisnet. What I need to make my software operate is still available, though if I can find a second option for charts and files, I'll probably take the time to make sure I can work with it in case I ever need it.

[mishka]

Has anyone tried to find the "Custom Card" feature that lets you filter the types and conditions of races you want to download? I can't find it anywhere.
Yesterday 07:00 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried to find the Custom Card race finder/filter, and cannot find it anywhere on the legacy site. Nor on the newly designed site. It looks like Brisnet got rid of the custom card plan, and with it the race filter on both new and legacy sites.

However, just checked out TimeForum and they have one. Not sure if it is just for subscribers, but been wanting to check them out for awhile.

https://timeformusblog.com/2013/06/26/race-finder/

[DeltaLover]

This fiasco is exactly what I always think about whenever somebody starts a thread about relying on handicapping for a living. I would never never ever ever be able to trust what is out of my control enough to pull the trigger if I had the option. It doesn't take much for a third party to screw the whole thing up - government overstepping their bounds or service providers deciding they don't need me can take it all away in a second.

So far, I'm lucky regarding Brisnet. What I need to make my software operate is still available, though if I can find a second option for charts and files, I'll probably take the time to make sure I can work with it in case I ever need it.

Obviously your solution relies on relatively thin data. Their new site is the definition of a disaster!

[2low]

Obviously your solution relies on relatively thin data. Their new site is the definition of a disaster!

Everything I need is in the multi-file race forms, the results data files and the changes files, which are still on the legacy site. As long as I have those, I'm fine. I'm nervous about the changes files since that's where my scratch info and off-turf adjustments come from.

I was planning on trying to figure out how to grab the files automatically, but I understand they saved me that work:lol::mad:

[plainolebill]

I've been using BRIS files since 96, they've never been customer service oriented but at least they left well enough alone. They completely missed on this deal. If I had to download more than one track at a time or had another file that would work with the software I use - I'd quit their sorry asses.

[Southbaygent]

Another nit to pick, I download single file PP's. If I scroll down on the new page to select, the column headers scroll off the screen. What day am I clicking on?? Silly little thing, but irritating.

And of course the multiple little charges to my debit/credit card, ugh.

Alternate sources(s) to comma delimited PP's? I use My own custom software, Bris PP custom generator, PaceView, TTT handicap, Pandy's pace all used on rotating daily basis...and all use single file format PP.

Of course my go to is HTR so I get their HDW stuff daily, but that doesn't import elsewhere

[Tom]

Another nit to pick, I download single file PP's. If I scroll down on the new page to select, the column headers scroll off the screen. What day am I clicking on?? Silly little thing, but irritating.

Just shows the great lengths they went to to test this abortion of a website.
:rolleyes:

[Longshot]

I'm still waiting on Bris to add some notation to let us know if the data files are Final Edition with the morning line. When I spoke with them last Thursday they said it would be fixed in a couple of days.

I guess it's my fault. I should have asked how many days are a couple of days.
I just assumed a couple was 2.

[Tom]

Three words for you all......

http://posttimedaily.com/

BRIS is not the only game in town.

[Mulerider]

I'm still waiting on Bris to add some notation to let us know if the data files are Final Edition with the morning line. When I spoke with them last Thursday they said it would be fixed in a couple of days.

I guess it's my fault. I should have asked how many days are a couple of days.
I just assumed a couple was 2.

I think it's fixed now. If you look at the little "sheet" icon, I think that if it's empty then it's not final. If there are a couple of lines across it, representing text, then I believe it's the final version.

Mule

[therussmeister]

I'm still waiting on Bris to add some notation to let us know if the data files are Final Edition with the morning line. When I spoke with them last Thursday they said it would be fixed in a couple of days.

I guess it's my fault. I should have asked how many days are a couple of days.
I just assumed a couple was 2.
When I downloaded on Sunday I assumed this has been fixed. The icon I clicked on to download Monday's files had two lines in them, but files for Wednesday and later did not. I assume this means those files are not final edition, but since I never download that far in advance I don't know for sure.

[2low]

Another nit to pick, I download single file PP's. If I scroll down on the new page to select, the column headers scroll off the screen. What day am I clicking on?? Silly little thing, but irritating.

And of course the multiple little charges to my debit/credit card, ugh.

Alternate sources(s) to comma delimited PP's? I use My own custom software, Bris PP custom generator, PaceView, TTT handicap, Pandy's pace all used on rotating daily basis...and all use single file format PP.

Of course my go to is HTR so I get their HDW stuff daily, but that doesn't import elsewhere

There is no indication that I've already downloaded a file either, so I keep having to check to see whether I'm doubling up on downloads - especially results files, which I grab throughout the day as tracks end. Not a huge thing, but just another irritant.

[railbird]

I've been using BRIS files since 96, they've never been customer service oriented but at least they left well enough alone. They completely missed on this deal. If I had to download more than one track at a time or had another file that would work with the software I use - I'd quit their sorry asses.

Told them I won't charge my cc for ech individual PP ,but now I am stuck and I won,t pay $79 per month for 6-9 pp's a month as a weekend warrior . HELP! Where do I go for single file data. :confused:

[railbird]

I must say very loudly BRISNET YOU S**K :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[SandyW]

Twinspires is good.

Obviously they had a solid and good working business relationship with BRIS. The rest? :eek:
Same company, Churchill Downs owns both of them.

[upthecreek]

Told them I won't charge my cc for ech individual PP ,but now I am stuck and I won,t pay $79 per month for 6-9 pp's a month as a weekend warrior . HELP! Where do I go for single file data. :confused:

Thats the problem, there is no place to go Trackmaster sells comma delimited files, "B" files, but they contain no post positions Ive been after them for 3-4 years to add posts and they said their not changing the file :bang:

[Secondbest]

Just checked .postime daily sells comma delimited fiiles .looks like around 1.50 per track

[agameofskill]

I am so disappointed with the new site. The problems are too many to list here. They are going to lose a ton of business over this debacle, and it will have nothing to do with the consumer adapting to change. This is a major screw up.

[TexasDolly]

Has anyone heard what they were trying to fix/accomplish with the update ? Personally, EVERYTHING i do is more complicated and I have yet to see one upside. It would be nice to hear from them with some sort of an explanation as to why the change. As it stands now it appears to offer nothing in the way of improvement while it offers plenty in the way of a more complicated procedure.
TD

[proximity]

This sounds like a perfect opportunity for some new company that has PPs to figure out how to format and sell their data for download. ;)

although it would've made a tough game even tougher, bris should've hired cj to improve and takeover their lousy figures about five years ago. if they did this they'd absolutely dominate today.

[Tom]

Has anyone heard what they were trying to fix/accomplish with the update ? Personally, EVERYTHING i do is more complicated and I have yet to see one upside. It would be nice to hear from them with some sort of an explanation as to why the change. As it stands now it appears to offer nothing in the way of improvement while it offers plenty in the way of a more complicated procedure.
TD

Obviously, there was never an upside planned for their customers.
I bet someone's nephew needed a job and then they needed something for him to do. Surely no sane person would have implement this much of an idiot re-design.

Unless the guy in charge over there is an idiot.
Strong possibility! :lol:

[deathandgravity]

Just baffling bad. :bang:

Having worked as a QA engineer in the past for a dotcom, I don't think anyone bothered to ask the customer what they want?

[basso]

:mad: i've had an account for years, just called customer support in a rage

[therussmeister]

Has anyone heard what they were trying to fix/accomplish with the update ? Personally, EVERYTHING i do is more complicated and I have yet to see one upside. It would be nice to hear from them with some sort of an explanation as to why the change. As it stands now it appears to offer nothing in the way of improvement while it offers plenty in the way of a more complicated procedure.
TD
On their site they say one goal was better security which I found humorous when I had to change my password because the old one was too long.

There is one upside for me. Several times a year, owing to fat fingers and aging eyes whilst using a tablet, I accidentally downloaded the wrong file. I expect this will never happen again as I am given two chances to review my order before it becomes official.

Outside of that I am indifferent to the redesign.

[cnollfan]

:mad: i've had an account for years, just called customer support in a rage

What did they say?

[Psychotic Parakeet]

What did they say?

He was probably left on-hold for 30 minutes before anyone would answer his call. Had that happen to me in the past.

[Southbaygent]

They emailed a link to survey the new website via "survey monkey". I let them have with almost all negative replies. :lol:

[Tom]

Gt that link?
THIS monkey is going to take his own survey! :lol:

[jasperson]

They emailed a link to survey the new website via "survey monkey". I let them have with almost all negative replies. :lol:
I did also. I wonder if it will have any effect? :mad:

[forced89]

I used yesterday for the first time in a while. Found it very difficult to navigate and had to give them my address and credit card info all over.

[Southbaygent]

I was going to copy over the link, but when I tested the link it kept pointing to "survey already completed" maybe I can delete some cookies and retry

[Southbaygent]

Doubtful any effect :( I did rant in the ending comments box re: the new billing procedures, billing by each shopping cart/visit. :bang:

[BetHorses!]

What a disaster and for a couple of weeks still!

I get this when I try to look at a simple chart:

{"UTS":"1481976616","Debug":"off","Error":{"Description":"Invalid or Expired JWT ID."},"ErrorCode":14}



Finito :bang:

[cnollfan]

What a disaster and for a couple of weeks still!

I get this when I try to look at a simple chart:

{"UTS":"1481976616","Debug":"off","Error":{"Description":"Invalid or Expired JWT ID."},"ErrorCode":14}



Finito :bang:

I had that happen yesterday. I cleared my cache and started over and it worked. Nonetheless, the site is much worse than it used to be.

[MONEY]

What a disaster and for a couple of weeks still!

I get this when I try to look at a simple chart:

{"UTS":"1481976616","Debug":"off","Error":{"Description":"Invalid or Expired JWT ID."},"ErrorCode":14}



Finito :bang:

I get that when my login time has expired, I just log back in and it works fine.

[mmdorn]

Hi Everyone,

Below is an email I sent to Brisnet about track cancellations, and their response. They were not very customer oriented in the past, but I guess now they only care about profits, and not customers.

Mike



My name is Mike Dorn, and I have an account with you. I see that with the
new site, we are charged as we download files, and not on a monthly basis.
When it was on a monthly basis, if a track cancelled, we were not charged
for the file. Now that we are charged immediately, do we get a refund when
the track cancels, or are we out of luck? I like the old way much better.

Subject
My Account

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Henika M) 12/17/2016 11:41 AM
Hello Michael M. Dorn,

We do apologize for any inconvenience with the new Brisnet.com site we launched. Where the old site was on a monthly basis the new site is charging up front. If a track cancels then you will not be able to get a refund being that all sales are final, however if you have a Twinspires.com account and you get your downloads from there then any track that cancels you'll get that back plus if you wager on a Thoroughbred Track depending on which form you get you'll get it free with wagers.

Thank you,

Henika M
Player Services

[cj]

Hi Everyone,

Below is an email I sent to Brisnet about track cancellations, and their response. They were not very customer oriented in the past, but I guess now they only care about profits, and not customers.

Mike



My name is Mike Dorn, and I have an account with you. I see that with the
new site, we are charged as we download files, and not on a monthly basis.
When it was on a monthly basis, if a track cancelled, we were not charged
for the file. Now that we are charged immediately, do we get a refund when
the track cancels, or are we out of luck? I like the old way much better.

Subject
My Account

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Henika M) 12/17/2016 11:41 AM
Hello Michael M. Dorn,

We do apologize for any inconvenience with the new Brisnet.com site we launched. Where the old site was on a monthly basis the new site is charging up front. If a track cancels then you will not be able to get a refund being that all sales are final, however if you have a Twinspires.com account and you get your downloads from there then any track that cancels you'll get that back plus if you wager on a Thoroughbred Track depending on which form you get you'll get it free with wagers.

Thank you,

Henika M
Player Services

OMG I'm not even sure how to respond to that. That is so bad it defies all logic.

[JimG]

OMG I'm not even sure how to respond to that. That is so bad it defies all logic.

Sounds like a company being run by CDI. LOL

Jim

[Speed Figure]

Brisnet is like a drug dealer! no matter how bad they treat the horse player crack head they will keep coming back for more!

[PhantomOnTour]

Brisnet is like a drug dealer! no matter how bad they treat the horse player crack head they will keep coming back for more!
I think some are going to find another dealer who has a better product

[Zaf]

I use(d) them on a part time basis. I'm Out !

Z

[NorCalGreg]

Brisnet is like a drug dealer! no matter how bad they treat the horse player crack head they will keep coming back for more!


Good analogy. Remember the "old" Brisnet...there was an area where you could check your monthly balance so far.

Good luck finding anything like that now.

I was on a (I'm not anyone special mind you)--but somehow smooth-talked my way onto a VIP plan where I got a reduced rate on the Unlimited Data Files Plan. It's supposed to be $125 a month--I got it for less.
I have a suspicion I'm not getting that anymore.

Apparently, I won't know until I check my CC statement. My strategy with large companies is...I wait til I get the bill...if it's wrong THEN I call and, completely baffled and appalled--raise holy hell and they start deleting charges etc :D .

That's the way to deal with big companies :ThmbUp:

[BetHorses!]

I'm out too

Buh Bye Bris

[OverlayHunter]

I've been a BRIS subscriber for well over a decade and I've just spent the last month or 6 weeks programming something new and productive using the single file data.

On the other hand - they've provided no effective notice of a massive change that seriously raises my cost in time and convenience and have demonstrated an utter lack of care or concern for their customers. Their customer service has always been marginal at best and they've taken it to new low by kicking me in the crotch. What's next from them? It can't be good given their track record.

Screw them. I'll take the time to re-program using other sources. It will be a massive undertaking but I can't and won't allow myself to be treated like a piece of ____. Bye BRIS - it hasn't been good to know ya.

[SpotPlays]

This long time user is switching over to DRF and Equibase for much easier access to results and charts. It's a sad day

[Tom]

Move away from the dark side.....move away from the dark side.....:lol:

[Gentz]

How to win the war on drugs..... 1. make all drugs legal.... 2. Require that all drugs be attained through the new Brisnet web page.

[Dave Schwartz]

How to win the war on drugs..... 1. make all drugs legal.... 2. Require that all drugs be attained through the new Brisnet web page.

That might be the funniest post for 2016.

:lol: :lol:

[Vinman]

Still no luck downloading Bris Ultimate pp's via my ipad. So if the Apple store can't solve the problem, do I buy another brand of tablet (first making sure it actually works) so I can continue to use Bris pp's and bring them to Saratoga.

This new pay as you go format is totally annoying. I sent them a negative survey.

Vinman

[DeltaLover]

For reasons that I cannot imagine, it seems to me that, what BRIS tries to accomplish in this release, is to get rid of the majority of its customers.

The only other option I can see is that, besides their long and successful web experience, they relied on an inexperienced and incapable development team that converted their working software to the epitome of disaster.

[vegasone]

What happens when you throw someone who is probably very good at a problem he/she doesn't understand. Get a load of crap.

I always missed having to download one file at a time so now they made me happy(not)

[Tom]

So many loyal customers willing to offer FREE advice....so just ignore them.
Good plan.

[PressThePace]

I've reached out to Ed Derosa via email and through the new website and get no response. Been a customer since the early 90's. I guess I agree with Delta. It's almost as if they want to drive their loyal customers away. I have no problem with a small increase in price...I get it. But, the changes are so sweeping and don't take their consumers into account.

The 4 P's of marketing are product, price, place, and promotion. Even if you have a good product, the absence of the other three will spell impending doom. Just my two cents..

[Tom]

Ed made a snide reply to me in one of the BIS threads here.
Guess we know what HIS priorities are.

NOT the customers.

[PressThePace]

Ed made a snide reply to me in one of the BIS threads here.
Guess we know what HIS priorities are.

NOT the customers.

Amazing to me that they pick and choose who they respond to. I didn't say anything that would be interpreted as derogatory. I think they have a great product. But, that alone can't suffice in this situation. There was no communication prior to the changes, no beta testing, etc. Were people complaining with the old format? There are so many questions unanswered. It resembles some type of intended internal sabotage.

[Zaf]

Ed made a snide reply to me in one of the BIS threads here.
Guess we know what HIS priorities are.

NOT the customers.

Guess they don't need the business, Me and 10 friends flushed them. Buh Bye :ThmbDown:

Z

[Vinman]

Each time I download the Ultimate pp's I have to enter my name, address & credit card info from scratch upon checkout, as the credit card I have "on file" always gets rejected. This is true no matter which of two valid credit cards I use is the one on file.

Vinman

[Tom]

They should fire their director of marketing.

[Fox]

If they are not rolling already, you have to figure heads will roll sooner or later as a result of this debacle. Given the customer back backlash evident here, I'm guessing revenues will take quite a hit.

[Tom]

I hope they take a serious $$$ hit.

[TravisVOX]

Aside from my script that automatically downloaded the files, and a minor hit to the speed navigating the site, I've had no problems transitioning to the new site.

[DeltaLover]

Aside from my script that automatically downloaded the files, and a minor hit to the speed navigating the site, I've had no problems transitioning to the new site.

So you mean that the automatic download is not a big deal? I think this is the most important piece of the process and a definite deal breaker!

[Elliott Sidewater]

So you mean that the automatic download is not a big deal? I think this is the most important piece of the process and a definite deal breaker!
Delta is absolutely right about this. You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. The quick download was probably the best feature of the old BRISNET. Now, they paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

[headhawg]

Aside from my script that automatically downloaded the files, and a minor hit to the speed navigating the site, I've had no problems transitioning to the new site.Any reasonably intelligent human can "transition" to the new site. That doesn't make the site any good. Good site design should make the user experience easier, not more difficult.

What surprises me is that other providers aren't making more of an effort to provide Bris-like services for the obviously unhappy Bris customers. Seems like a no-brainer, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything that happens in this industry.

[Mulerider]

Each time I download the Ultimate pp's I have to enter my name, address & credit card info from scratch upon checkout, as the credit card I have "on file" always gets rejected. This is true no matter which of two valid credit cards I use is the one on file.

Vinman

Vinman, it rejected mine the second time I tried to buy something, even after putting my card on file the first time. The reason I was rejected was because I failed to notice that you have to enter the CCV number each time, even if your card is on file.

Mule

[acorn54]

i understand the hassel to those that want alot of the tracks each day that run.
for those like me, that only bet weekends at the major tracks the transitioning to the new bris site hasn't been a bother to me

[therussmeister]

What surprises me is that other providers aren't making more of an effort to provide Bris-like services for the obviously unhappy Bris customers. Seems like a no-brainer, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything that happens in this industry.
I'd say it is a bit early to jump to this conclusion. The new BRIS site I'd just barely out, it will take time for others the react unless you think it okay for someone else to jump in right away with something half-assed.

[upthecreek]

I'd say it is a bit early to jump to this conclusion. The new BRIS site I'd just barely out, it will take time for others the react unless you think it okay for someone else to jump in right away with something half-assed.
I've been asking Trackmaster for 5 years to add post positions to their "B" files They told me they have no plans to do so I wouldn't expect any provider to "jump in"

[DeltaLover]

i understand the hassel to those that want alot of the tracks each day that run.
for those like me, that only bet weekends at the major tracks the transitioning to the new bris site hasn't been a bother to me

Even if you only bet on weekends maintaining a full database of charts is still a first class priority as this is the only way you can do research and build custom figs.

[Tom]

Beware their chart files - PDF.
I just downloaded the BC Friday card - only got the 9th race even using the ALL button. Only the BC races show up for the Saturday card. Well, some of them - left out Race 6 and 7.

Looks like their total incompetence was rhetroactive.

Anyone use Equibase?
I can't find how to get to chats for tracks not running.....not a useful tool if you can't. Why have charts back to 1992 is you cant' get to them???

DRF is supposed to provide chart access with my DRF+ but will not allow me to get them

To much FREE stuff out there - you can't get to it. :rolleyes:

[ReplayRandall]

Beware their chart files - PDF.
I just downloaded the BC Friday card - only got the 9th race even using the ALL button. Only the BC races show up for the Saturday card. Well, some of them - left out Race 6 and 7.

Looks like their total incompetence was rhetroactive.

Anyone use Equibase?
I can't find how to get to chats for tracks not running.....not a useful tool if you can't. Why have charts back to 1992 is you cant' get to them???

DRF is supposed to provide chart access with my DRF+ but will not allow me to get them

To much FREE stuff out there - you can't get to it. :rolleyes:

BC race#6
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=SA&raceDate=11/05/2016&cy=USA&rn=6

BC race#7
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=SA&raceDate=11/05/2016&cy=USA&rn=7

[ReplayRandall]

BC race#6
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=SA&raceDate=11/05/2016&cy=USA&rn=6

BC race#7
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=SA&raceDate=11/05/2016&cy=USA&rn=7

Here's Friday's full card on BC day:

http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=SA&raceDate=11/04/2016&cy=USA

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Anyone use Equibase?
I can't find how to get to chats for tracks not running.....not a useful tool if you can't. Why have charts back to 1992 is you cant' get to them???

...

On the Results menu go to Historical Charts, not Charts. At the top of that page there is a drop down for the track and one for the date/year. Or you can use calendar format.

[Tom]

Thanks, guys. Got them.
I bookmarked the link.

Where else but here are you going to get help at 10:30 on Christmas Eve! :D

[TravisVOX]

So you mean that the automatic download is not a big deal? I think this is the most important piece of the process and a definite deal breaker!

Delta is absolutely right about this. You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. The quick download was probably the best feature of the old BRISNET. Now, they paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

My automated download tool broke as a result as well and I let Ed know and he assured me they're aware and are working toward a solution. It's a bit of a pain. For now I have to click each file and make sure I don't miss anything. It's added a few minutes to my daily routine so hopefully a solution is created.

[vegasone]

Shows how clueless these people are, not even knowing how customers are using their product.

[TexasDolly]

I thought I read here that they(Bris) were going to look at fixing the download files automatically issue . I couldn't find that post just now and I am curious if they really intend to fix the problem and if there is any progress toward that end that anyone is aware of.
Thank you,
TD

[DeltaLover]

I thought I read here that they(Bris) were going to look at fixing the download files automatically issue . I couldn't find that post just now and I am curious if they really intend to fix the problem and if there is any progress toward that end that anyone is aware of.
Thank you,
TD

Maybe they thought about it a little too late?

[vegasone]

Would probably require redoing a bunch of stuff. Doesn't seem like an easy fix.

Off to find something better soon.

[Southbaygent]

All of a sudden, no changes from me, Bris started using my OLD credit card to charge my PP downloads! Not the new one they made me enter (I chose to use a different CC at that time), but no - they went back to an old one for two downloads? We will see what the future hold!!!

[vegasone]

Haven't tried it yet but if there is anybody left that cares, looks like bris has made some changes that may allow automated downloads again.

[TexasDolly]

Haven't tried it yet but if there is anybody left that cares, looks like bris has made some changes that may allow automated downloads again.

I am definitely interested in downloading automatically. Could you elaborate as to how or what you have noticed that may permit it ? Or how we might go about doing that ?
Thank you,
TD

[DeltaLover]

I am definitely interested in downloading automatically. Could you elaborate as to how or what you have noticed that may permit it ? Or how we might go about doing that ?
Thank you,
TD

Try HDW http://www.horsedata.com/

[ebcorde]

They used to issue refund for Tracks that cancelled, well NO MORE. done with
winter tracks. high winds etc. And if you do not have a price plan.. they charge daily to your account,

I will use a pre-paid card. Banks asks me "what's all these 80 cent charges?"

the download did change. I noticed a change yesterday

[AltonKelsey]

I avoid paying for pp's, but not refunding cancelled tracks is criminal.

If you put up with it , it's your fault.

[Speed Figure]

Try HDW http://www.horsedata.com/
Can someone tell HDW to update there website? So many dead links on there it's really bad! I also noticed that they stopped posting the stats for PSR.

[DeltaLover]

Can someone tell HDW to update there website? So many dead links on there it's really bad! I also noticed that they stopped posting the stats for PSR.

I have not navigated their site a lot so I do not know about dead links etc.

What I can assure you though is that the quality of their data is great and they are very friendly and always ready to help and resolve any problem you might have.

[JohnGalt1]

They did make one improvement I requested.

The date at the top of the page now scrolls down as you move down the alphabet to Turfway and Woodbine so we don't have to constantly move up to make sure we are downloading the card we want.

[Fox]

They did make one improvement I requested.

The date at the top of the page now scrolls down as you move down the alphabet to Turfway and Woodbine so we don't have to constantly move up to make sure we are downloading the card we want.

Thank God. That was super annoying.

[Sparky13]

After 2 weeks of the new Brisnet, when I could download Data Files, now all of sudden I can't.

[thaskalos]

Try HDW http://www.horsedata.com/
Is there a phone number that HDW can be reached by?

When browsing their website, the only contact information I can find is by way of e-mail messaging.

[Longshot6977]

Is there a phone number that HDW can be reached by?

When browsing their website, the only contact information I can find is by way of e-mail messaging.

Click on the 'About Us' link on the left and you get this:

HDW, Inc.
100 Farmers Bank Square, Suite 120
Georgetown, KY 40324 U.S.A.
phone: (502) 570-0333

Yup, you would think it would be under the 'Contact' link, but no.

[Jack950]

That is going to suck if Brisnet ties in the tote board to having a Twinspires account. I can not open an account with TS as I live in a restricted state. I would hope that they do not follow through with that. The DRF tote board is not nearly as good as Brisnet's.

[Tom]

Is there a phone number that HDW can be reached by?

When browsing their website, the only contact information I can find is by way of e-mail messaging.


HDW will not disappoint.
they offer two thing BRIS never did.

Customer Service and quality control.

[Southbaygent]

+1 on HDW service, friendliness. I subscribe via my HTR software but no worries ever calling/emailing HDW direct and getting a quick response.

[thaskalos]

HDW will not disappoint.
they offer two thing BRIS never did.

Customer Service and quality control.
I have talked to Ron and Jim...and I have been granted free access to their product for the weekend. They refused to accept my money unless I tested their product first, to make sure that it suited my needs.