DELMAR-WHY NO, NO CONTEST

[EMD4ME]

Race 6. 6 pieces of foreign substances on the track, all horses looking to save their lives avoided these things.

SHOULD HAVE BEEN A NO CONTEST.

I had no audio on track but did they say why not?

[HorsemenHeist]

Outrageous and the explanation won't satisfy you at all

https://twitter.com/DelMarRacing/status/802653728419393536

[whisperlunch]

I had the 4 and all horses had to step thru same area. They made correct call.

[EasyGoer89]

773 pick 4 pool first leg

[EMD4ME]

773 pick 4 pool first leg

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Tom]

No one saw that stuff?
Not even Trevor up in the sky??????

Note to self - Never DelMar

[EasyGoer89]

Exactly what I was thinking.

The question would be is that a refund or an 'all' in the pick 4, I'm not 100 pct sure.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Yeah how did that much crap out there get missed?

[SuperPickle]

Race 6. 6 pieces of foreign substances on the track, all horses looking to save their lives avoided these things.

SHOULD HAVE BEEN A NO CONTEST.

I had no audio on track but did they say why not?

No it shouldn't have. No contests are only declared when a race can not be run due to a significant issue that dramatically affects the organic runnning of the race. Historically this only happens due to a gate malfunction affecting multiple or all horses or an accident that blocks all or most of the track. This did not meet those standards.

There was debris on the track. While horses and riders had to take evasive action no horse was pulled up and no horse had his chances greatly compromised or was given a significant advantage because of the event. Simply put it affected all the horses. The winner came from last. The runner up was significantly affected by the debris.

Simply put it doesn't meet the justification to declare the race no contest.

[EMD4ME]

No it shouldn't have. No contests are only declared when a race can not be run due to a significant issue that dramatically affects the organic runnning of the race. Historically this only happens due to a gate malfunction affecting multiple or all horses or an accident that blocks all or most of the track. This did not meet those standards.

There was debris on the track. While horses and riders had to take evasive action no horse was pulled up and no horse had his chances greatly compromised or was given a significant advantage because of the event. Simply put it affected all the horses. The winner came from last. The runner up was significantly affected by the debris.

Simply put it doesn't meet the justification to declare the race no contest.

So CHRB Rule 1544 says that if most of the runners are impacted, the race can be a no contest.

You say: all runners were impacted but you're also wizard enough to know that not 1 horse was mentally scared of the surprise debris, not one jock wasn't spooked during the running, not 1 muscle wasn't tweaked the wrong way with an awkward weird step.

can you also provide me with tonight's winning powerball numbers my dear wizard ?

[Fred Mertz]

can you also provide me with tonight's winning powerball numbers my dear wizard ?

Ah crap. I left my ticket down stairs. The PowerBall number will be Johnny Unitas, #19.

[EMD4ME]

can you also provide me with tonight's winning powerball numbers my dear wizard ?

Ah crap. I left my ticket down stairs. The PowerBall number will be Johnny Unitas, #19.

can you send ethel up the stairs with it? ;)

[VigorsTheGrey]

EMD,

Do you think Om should have not went to the front today at Del mar? I know Ring Weekend run his race but I think Om should have laid back some and let What A View be the rabbit....?

[SuperPickle]

So CHRB Rule 1544 says that if most of the runners are impacted, the race can be a no contest.

You say: all runners were impacted but you're also wizard enough to know that not 1 horse was mentally scared of the surprise debris, not one jock wasn't spooked during the running, not 1 muscle wasn't tweaked the wrong way with an awkward weird step.

can you also provide me with tonight's winning powerball numbers my dear wizard ?

Again the keyword is "can." They could have but made the decision that all runners were equally impacted.

Again the debris was all over the first turn forcing all runners to run through it. Now if there was debris that only impacted some runners they make a different call but given what happened they made the right call.

They handled it right.

[cj]

I'm probably biased because I actually hit the exacta, but watching this one I don't see any way that was a no contest type event. I've seen it all in this game, as I'm sure many here have, and WAY worse things have been allowed to happen that didn't result in races being scratched.

I don't see how anyone could say would happened cost any of the horses a placing, and taking money away from those that actually won would be very unfair IMO. I'd say that even if I lost.

[EasyGoer89]

EMD,

Do you think Om should have not went to the front today at Del mar? I know Ring Weekend run his race but I think Om should have laid back some and let What A View be the rabbit....?

I didn't like the ride. Thought Gary got an unbeatable horse beat.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Different race.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I didn't like the ride. Thought Gary got an unbeatable horse beat.

Hendricks said they had options with the horse, to press, lay off, or be the pace. It was a slow race and not many early horses in the short field, but when he went to the front, my heart dropped and I said " what are you doing Gary? Especially after the way he closed on BC sprint day...just really surprised, and of course I had money on him to win which does bias me a little, just should have boxed the tri...

[EasyGoer89]

Hendricks said they had options with the horse, to press, lay off, or be the pace. It was a slow race and not many early horses in the short field, but when he went to the front, my heart dropped and I said " what are you doing Gary? Especially after the way he closed on BC sprint day...just really surprised, and of course I had money on him to win which does bias me a little, just should have boxed the tri...

Gary allegedly dropped the whip last time and also was too far back, most likely Gary apologized to the connections and took the blame for getting beat last time, i think when you feel like you botch a ride, you want to make sure you don't botch another one, so if you send to the front and stay out of traffic, you can't really blame the jock, if he would have taken back and rated and then flew late and missed again, that would have looked like he mistimed the race, so he put himself in a position to have 'no excuses'.

I'll bet that horse back, i think he was BTL today with a tough trip and the outer lanes might have been the better place to be anyway, he galloped out great too.

[dilanesp]

No it shouldn't have. No contests are only declared when a race can not be run due to a significant issue that dramatically affects the organic runnning of the race. Historically this only happens due to a gate malfunction affecting multiple or all horses or an accident that blocks all or most of the track. This did not meet those standards.

There was debris on the track. While horses and riders had to take evasive action no horse was pulled up and no horse had his chances greatly compromised or was given a significant advantage because of the event. Simply put it affected all the horses. The winner came from last. The runner up was significantly affected by the debris.

Simply put it doesn't meet the justification to declare the race no contest.

Exactly. It's also a big field in a stakes race. Declaring it a no contest would mean taking big purse money away, and declaring it a non-betting race would look really weird-- that it was official enough to give out the purses but not official enough to pay off bets.

Honestly, the practice of declaring races no contest at all is, as far as I know, of fairly recent origin. I remember a big spill in Oak Tree in 1986 in which only two horses- Hatim and Innamarato, finished a race that had 7 starters. (One of the horses that went down was Variety Road, a good stakes horse, and another one was Encolure, who ran in the Derby as a three year old. Chris McCarron was knocked out of the Breeders' Cup by the spill and couldn't ride Precisionist in the Classic.)

The race result stood. They did not make it a no contest.

I don't actually see anything wrong with that. Bad racing luck is bad racing luck. It's really dangerous to give stewards the power to decide how much bad racing luck is too much bad racing luck. But at the very least, you definitely can't do it in a situation where the racing luck wasn't THAT bad, happened on the first turn, and only affected a few horses in a large field.

[SuperPickle]

Exactly. It's also a big field in a stakes race. Declaring it a no contest would mean taking big purse money away, and declaring it a non-betting race would look really weird-- that it was official enough to give out the purses but not official enough to pay off bets.

Honestly, the practice of declaring races no contest at all is, as far as I know, of fairly recent origin. I remember a big spill in Oak Tree in 1986 in which only two horses- Hatim and Innamarato, finished a race that had 7 starters. (One of the horses that went down was Variety Road, a good stakes horse, and another one was Encolure, who ran in the Derby as a three year old. Chris McCarron was knocked out of the Breeders' Cup by the spill and couldn't ride Precisionist in the Classic.)

The race result stood. They did not make it a no contest.

I don't actually see anything wrong with that. Bad racing luck is bad racing luck. It's really dangerous to give stewards the power to decide how much bad racing luck is too much bad racing luck. But at the very least, you definitely can't do it in a situation where the racing luck wasn't THAT bad, happened on the first turn, and only affected a few horses in a large field.


Exactly. There's really only two scenarios for a no contest. One being the field unable to complete the race. For example a spill blocking the track with either an injured rider, emergency equipment or the gate. Or if the startering gate malfunctions. But here's the rub on that. It would have to be multiple horses for the starting gate to trigger a no contest. I've seen races where up to 2-3 horse have had an unfair start and they simple did refunds not a no contest.

It essentially boils down to this. If the bulk of the field breaks together it's a race. If all horses complete the course without some horses gaining an advantage it's a race.

[chenoa]

An absolute disgrace paying out this race.

[EasyGoer89]

Exactly. There's really only two scenarios for a no contest. One being the field unable to complete the race. For example a spill blocking the track with either an injured rider, emergency equipment or the gate. Or if the startering gate malfunctions. But here's the rub on that. It would have to be multiple horses for the starting gate to trigger a no contest. I've seen races where up to 2-3 horse have had an unfair start and they simple did refunds not a no contest.

It essentially boils down to this. If the bulk of the field breaks together it's a race. If all horses complete the course without some horses gaining an advantage it's a race.

I think with all the pros and cons and also considering how the racing industry does things, leaving it as a race seems to be a better financial decision for th game. The owners, trainers and jocks don't suffer, the state coffers don't suffer, the people who picked the winner don't suffer the only thing that suffers is people who made losing bets don't get their money back on a technicality. The pros far outweigh the cons here to leave it a race.

With all that said, It really comes down to the standard of integrity that is important to this track and the game at large. It does seem that whenever there's some kind of 'malfunction' or issue with fairness, it's always the winning bettors and or bettors in general who pay the freight, not the track. Since this was a situation caused by the track, why not make the race official, pay out the purse, pay the winning bettors and if anyone who feels cheated wants a refund they can get it. If you go to Macy's or target and walk in and speak to the manager and say 'I feel cheated I want a refund' there's a pretty good chance you'll get one, not so in racing, a person who feels cheated has no recourse. Even if they are wrong to feel cheated, many other places would issue a refund just to keep their customer happy.

[zawaaa]

rain! wind!! foam-covers!!!

hopefully that the horses weren't too bothered physically by their efforts, would be my main concern

[olddaddy]

This should be put on Denman, he is the one that can see the track. These card tables didnt blow on the track after the gates were opened. Maybe a race caller can chime in here, to let me know if its their responsibility to eye over the track before a race.

[cj]

This should be put on Denman, he is the one that can see the track. These card tables didnt blow on the track after the gates were opened. Maybe a race caller can chime in here, to let me know if its their responsibility to eye over the track before a race.

Stewards have the same view and unlike Denman it is actually their job.

[olddaddy]

Stewards have the same view and unlike Denman it is actually their job.


Thank you, I retract calling out Denman and call out the stewards instead.


After thinking about this, maybe the stewards should get a few days off just like a jockey does when he endangers other riders and horses.

[EMD4ME]

Stewards have the same view and unlike Denman it is actually their job.

You assume they're there? and awake? :D

[SuperPickle]

Stewards have the same view and unlike Denman it is actually their job.

Here's the thing that makes this all more a felony in terms of debris being on the track. SoCal is like the last track on earth that uses spotters to help the stewards. You see the tower on Santa Anita in Between the turf course and dirt near the wire? It's a spotter tower. Basically someone observers the race from it and radios into the stewards if they see something during the race. Lots of tracks had them but with the advent of tv almost all eliminated them except Santa Anita. I'm assuming since Santa Anita has that setup so does Del Mar.

Btw... another point lest anyone still think it should have been a no contest. Just last Saturday at Laurel they ran a race with geese on the track. In fact one got hit and killed. In the thousands of races I've seen I've seen dozens of instances of birds on turfs courses. I've even seen cats, rabbits and squirrels. Last year at Los Al they even had a Coyote on the track during a race. None have been declared a no contest.

Simply put debris on the track affecting the whole field has never been a no contest.

[chenoa]

I even wonder if there is a TV in the stewards room with a lot of these calls they have made this year.

Maybe it comes down to ROCK PAPER SCISSORS!!!! :lol: :lol:

[EMD4ME]

I even wonder if there is a TV in the stewards room with a lot of these calls they have made this year.

Maybe it comes down to ROCK PAPER SCISSORS!!!! :lol: :lol:


Another one :lol:

You're assuming they're there AND awake???

[chenoa]

Another one :lol:

You're assuming they're there AND awake???


Good Point!!!! :lol: :lol:

[EMD4ME]

EMD,

Do you think Om should have not went to the front today at Del mar? I know Ring Weekend run his race but I think Om should have laid back some and let What A View be the rabbit....?

Sorry Vigors. I know near nothing about Cali and if I offered an opinion, it would be a weak one.