NJ Casino Expansion Shot Down

[MonmouthParkJoe]

79% voted against. :eek:

Looks like Caputo will decide if he will try to amend legislation to allow slot machines to avoid a referendum, but will be based on how this casino expansion vote turned out. Not looking good.

Hard to be optimistic about NJ racing after the previous Monmouth meet and this being shot down.

[onefast99]

79% voted against. :eek:

Looks like Caputo will decide if he will try to amend legislation to allow slot machines to avoid a referendum, but will be based on how this casino expansion vote turned out. Not looking good.

Hard to be optimistic about NJ racing after the previous Monmouth meet and this being shot down.
$9000 purse beaten 5k claimers coming this summer to MP!

[Secondbest]

What about sports betting?

[SuperPickle]

Well you can mark this day as the day Monmouth Park was sentenced to death. At this point it's just a matter of time.

There's no words for what the South Jersey political machine did to Gural and his crew. Ate his lunch and then some. I'm fairly certain in the upcoming months he'll announce his exercising of the out on his Meadowlands lease.

Here's the kicker. Gural waved the white flag last month. So why did anti-casino people keep spending money when the competition had left town? Simple. They weren't trying to win a vote. They were trying to win a mandate. They didn't win a vote they won an issue long-term. 79%! It'll will be a long-time before someone financial backs a campaign to open a Meadowlands casino. And that's what the anti-casino people wanted. Not victory. Total defeat of the opposition.

Rough day to be a Jersey racing fan.

[EasyGoer89]

Well you can mark this day as the day Monmouth Park was sentenced to death. At this point it's just a matter of time.

There's no words for what the South Jersey political machine did to Gural and his crew. Ate his lunch and then some. I'm fairly certain in the upcoming months he'll announce his exercising of the out on his Meadowlands lease.

Here's the kicker. Gural waved the white flag last month. So why did anti-casino people keep spending money when the competition had left town? Simple. They weren't trying to win a vote. They were trying to win a mandate. They didn't win a vote they won an issue long-term. 79%! It'll will be a long-time before someone financial backs a campaign to open a Meadowlands casino. And that's what the anti-casino people wanted. Not victory. Total defeat of the opposition.

Rough day to be a Jersey racing fan.

You would think its not just south jersey it's Ny and Pa too.

[SuperPickle]

You would think its not just south jersey it's Ny and Pa too.

Oh the money definitely came from far and wide. But the South Jersey political machine was the one that lead the charge.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

What about sports betting?

This has been shot down in the past as well.


For years now I was optimistic about the casino expansion and that it would help stabilize racing in NJ. Gural was planning to cut the stakes program for harness but recently went on record to say he wasnt for 2017.

I do agree though, I just cant be optimistic about things to come. Such a damn shame.

[affirmedny]

I don't think the tracks were going to get much money from the deal(I read 3M per year somewhere). Not nearly enough money to compete with the other slot tracks in the area. I think that's why Gural gave up so easily.

[Zaf]

What about exchange betting ? I don't hear much about it. Was it a success ?

Z

[onefast99]

Oh the money definitely came from far and wide. But the South Jersey political machine was the one that lead the charge.
Genting lead the charge they are the main backers behind Bad bet for NJ they own World resorts at Aqueduct. Several people who did the commercials were interviewed and stated they thought it was AC that paid for this and that's where the supposed 30000 jobs could be lost, it was all a big lie. The silver lining to this is the possibility of slot machines at the racetracks something that is not dead at all. Genting also put in for a license for an Upstate NY casino.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The silver lining to this is the possibility of slot machines at the racetracks something that is not dead at all.

NOTHING is happening until Phil Murphy is sitting in the Governor's office.

[onefast99]

NOTHING is happening until Phil Murphy is sitting in the Governor's office.The current Governor will be out in late January, mark it down.

[SuperPickle]

The current Governor will be out in late January, mark it down.

Jared kushner isn't letting his father-in-law put the guy who locked up his father into a cabinet level position. Payback is a you know what.

Politics aside racetracks in New Jersey are NEVER getting casinos or expanded gambling because there's 10-15 casinos that would spend a fortune to protect their monopoly.

And slots? Delaware Park has slots. How's that going?

[alhattab]

Jared kushner isn't letting his father-in-law put the guy who locked up his father into a cabinet level position. Payback is a you know what.

Politics aside racetracks in New Jersey are NEVER getting casinos or expanded gambling because there's 10-15 casinos that would spend a fortune to protect their monopoly.

And slots? Delaware Park has slots. How's that going?

Interesting about Kushner. I didn't know about Charles (Jareds father) and Gov connection. But Pickle I don't see much difference between being named to run the transition team and getting a position- cabinet or otherwise- on the Trump team. I expect Christie will move on also- it will serve the party best and gives Guadagno at least a chance in 2017.

My thought was Morris Bailey could have some say in this. However I don't know if hes even in the picture at all. Anyone know?

There are a few crazy things about this whole thing. One is that in NJ you can gamble in AC and you can gamble at home, but nowhere else like at an existing gaming facility. The other is that the AC casinos pay a fraction of what casinos owned by the same corporate interests willingly signed up for in other states. Why don't we just push the taxes up to the levels paid in neighboring states where the AC outfits have opened casinos twice as close to AC as the North Jersey casinos would be? God the people in this state are utterly clueless.

[onefast99]

Jared kushner isn't letting his father-in-law put the guy who locked up his father into a cabinet level position. Payback is a you know what.

Politics aside racetracks in New Jersey are NEVER getting casinos or expanded gambling because there's 10-15 casinos that would spend a fortune to protect their monopoly.

And slots? Delaware Park has slots. How's that going?Christie prosecuted him up for the right reasons, he wasnt a bit remorseful for what he did. Christie will get the Attorney General position most likely. Slots will be the saving grace for both NJ tracks, Codey is quietly pushing this right now as you read this.

[onefast99]

Interesting about Kushner. I didn't know about Charles (Jareds father) and Gov connection. But Pickle I don't see much difference between being named to run the transition team and getting a position- cabinet or otherwise- on the Trump team. I expect Christie will move on also- it will serve the party best and gives Guadagno at least a chance in 2017.

My thought was Morris Bailey could have some say in this. However I don't know if hes even in the picture at all. Anyone know?

There are a few crazy things about this whole thing. One is that in NJ you can gamble in AC and you can gamble at home, but nowhere else like at an existing gaming facility. The other is that the AC casinos pay a fraction of what casinos owned by the same corporate interests willingly signed up for in other states. Why don't we just push the taxes up to the levels paid in neighboring states where the AC outfits have opened casinos twice as close to AC as the North Jersey casinos would be? God the people in this state are utterly clueless.In 2005 Christie was the US Attorney and he headed the prosecution of Kushner who was accused and convicted of illegal campaign contributions, witness tampering and tax evasion. Christie did his job.

[SuperPickle]

Christie prosecuted him up for the right reasons, he wasnt a bit remorseful for what he did. Christie will get the Attorney General position most likely. Slots will be the saving grace for both NJ tracks, Codey is quietly pushing this right now as you read this.

Cody can do whatever he wants but at the end of the day George norcross will eat his lunch. Expanded gambling in nj is dead

[Redboard]

The proposal lost 78-22 ouch! But it looks like some people are still hoping against hope:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/single-north-jersey-casino-pitch-could-win-over-voters-supporters-say-1.1690453

[onefast99]

Cody can do whatever he wants but at the end of the day George norcross will eat his lunch. Expanded gambling in nj is deadVLTs could be put in both the Meadowlands and Monmouth under a bill that passed in 1982(Kean overturned it in 1983), these machines could total 5000 between the two racetracks and this would fall under the State Lottery Commission and wouldn't need a referendum. The opinion says "no constitutional or statutory bar to the incorporation of a consumer-operated video games terminal into, and to be made part of, the New Jersey State Lottery." Based on this approach we could and most likely will see the VLTs at the racetracks.

[SuperPickle]

VLTs could be put in both the Meadowlands and Monmouth under a bill that passed in 1982(Kean overturned it in 1983), these machines could total 5000 between the two racetracks and this would fall under the State Lottery Commission and wouldn't need a referendum. The opinion says "no constitutional or statutory bar to the incorporation of a consumer-operated video games terminal into, and to be made part of, the New Jersey State Lottery." Based on this approach we could and most likely will see the VLTs at the racetracks.

Maybe they could maybe they couldn't. We both knows the pols could block it if it's worth their while.

The larger issue is adding some slots to compete against full blown casinos with a dedicated group of customers is litterally bringing a knife to a gambling gun fight.

[onefast99]

Maybe they could maybe they couldn't. We both knows the pols could block it if it's worth their while.

The larger issue is adding some slots to compete against full blown casinos with a dedicated group of customers is litterally bringing a knife to a gambling gun fight.No need to explain it again, but I will, this opinion states there is no need for a referendum, maybe you didn't see that part but that simply means there is no vote needed for this type of gaming under the supervision of the NJ Lottery Commission. Also if you want to talk about getting the foot in the door which is exactly what this would be gaming wise, Parx began as a VLT racino only as well as Delaware and Worlds Resort at Aqueduct is still a vlt, slot and series 7 gaming facility. There are no true "table" games at Aqueduct and by the way how are they doing, no need to answer just look at the NYRA purses.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Resorts World at Aqueduct is by far and away the best performing racino by a large margin.

It is reasonable to think that NJ would do well given the demographics of the state.

If they do, I just hope they really work on nailing down all the specifics of the bill. I am pretty sure they are adding more slot machines in NY that will not contribute any money towards purses, only the slot machines that were specified in the original language of the contract.

Parx, which did start out as slots only, receive their purse subsidies from the slots, not table games. How they didnt have the foresight to expand the gaming clause to encompass possible table gaming revenue is beyond me. :bang:

Not that I am championing Parx, but as someone that is all for racing, we need to look out for the racing side since we all know casino companies could care less about the racing aspect. Except for Indiana :)

[onefast99]

Resorts World at Aqueduct is by far and away the best performing racino by a large margin.

It is reasonable to think that NJ would do well given the demographics of the state.

If they do, I just hope they really work on nailing down all the specifics of the bill. I am pretty sure they are adding more slot machines in NY that will not contribute any money towards purses, only the slot machines that were specified in the original language of the contract.

Parx, which did start out as slots only, receive their purse subsidies from the slots, not table games. How they didnt have the foresight to expand the gaming clause to encompass possible table gaming revenue is beyond me. :bang:

Not that I am championing Parx, but as someone that is all for racing, we need to look out for the racing side since we all know casino companies could care less about the racing aspect. Except for Indiana :)Parx couldn't include any table games under their initial agreement neither could Penn National which trimmed its horse racing subsidy budget by over 65% from the original one that Parx still follows. I don't know how long the vlt fueled purses will stay at Parx since the state is trying to get more monies for roads and education. Eventually there will be a cut, but Parx does the right thing and that is why they are more successful than Penn, Pocono the Meadows and Presque Isle.

[SuperPickle]

Parx couldn't include any table games under their initial agreement neither could Penn National which trimmed its horse racing subsidy budget by over 65% from the original one that Parx still follows. I don't know how long the vlt fueled purses will stay at Parx since the state is trying to get more monies for roads and education. Eventually there will be a cut, but Parx does the right thing and that is why they are more successful than Penn, Pocono the Meadows and Presque Isle.

Yeah but this statement kind of sums up the falsehood of the idea that NJ could get expanded gaming and that it could have meaningful impact on the racing industry.

1. A referendum for expanded was just massively voting down. New Jersey residents don't want expanded gambling.
2. Even if the government wants to expanded gambling it's unlikely they'd do something that the voters strongly don't want.
3. Even if the government defies the will of the people the state is really broke and has a very challenging encomic outlook. There's a real possibility all or most the revenue could be sent to other areas outside purse money.
4. Even if the government breaks the will of the people and even if it gives the industry a decent revenue cut the revenue impact would have to create purses larger than at least Laurel and Parx to have real impact and help the industry compete with other options horsemen have. Given the massive saturation of gaming in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic this would be unlikely.
5. It essentially needs to happen now. Monmouth has had 3-4 consecutive meetings of declining purse and horse populations. It's entering a death spiral. By 2019 or 2020 it'll be too late.

When you add up these five things it's high unlikely anything meaningful gets done. The state of New Jersey has almost 20 years since Delaware got slots to address the decline of New Jersey racing.

It's insane to now think it becomes a priority especially with Tuesday's votes.

[onefast99]

Yeah but this statement kind of sums up the falsehood of the idea that NJ could get expanded gaming and that it could have meaningful impact on the racing industry.

1. A referendum for expanded was just massively voting down. New Jersey residents don't want expanded gambling.
2. Even if the government wants to expanded gambling it's unlikely they'd do something that the voters strongly don't want.
3. Even if the government defies the will of the people the state is really broke and has a very challenging encomic outlook. There's a real possibility all or most the revenue could be sent to other areas outside purse money.
4. Even if the government breaks the will of the people and even if it gives the industry a decent revenue cut the revenue impact would have to create purses larger than at least Laurel and Parx to have real impact and help the industry compete with other options horsemen have. Given the massive saturation of gaming in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic this would be unlikely.
5. It essentially needs to happen now. Monmouth has had 3-4 consecutive meetings of declining purse and horse populations. It's entering a death spiral. By 2019 or 2020 it'll be too late.

When you add up these five things it's high unlikely anything meaningful gets done. The state of New Jersey has almost 20 years since Delaware got slots to address the decline of New Jersey racing.

It's insane to now think it becomes a priority especially with Tuesday's votes.A January vote to have the VLTs at the NJ racetracks is most likely going to take place. The difference here is that the racetracks are already up and running and wouldnt require any other BS by Trenton to get this accomplished so there may still be hope for NJ as this also takes into affect the open space and farm land act. The fund that provides dollars for this is empty, something has to give and I believe NJ tracks will have VLTs by June at the very latest.

[upthecreek]

I'm sorry the last thing NJ needs is more casino's How bout racing come up with a plan to save itself , instead of relying on casinos
Promote it
Educate people
Fan friendly & family events
Of course lower takeouts
Maybe some kind of "lottery " type wager ,that's affordable (compared to the $2 pick 6)
Having to depend on casino revenue is not the way to go IMO, of course I know I'm naive and I'll be told I have no clue

[MonmouthParkJoe]

As it relates to monmouth..

They do have a jackpot bet, the jersey shore pick 6 with a 20 cent base. I honestly dont ever remember them having a $2 pick 6

Monmouth has events just about every weekend that draws ALOT of people. It is well advertised and people show up in force. I think the casino subsidy or VLTs are needed to stabilize things for now. They are getting hit on all sides from neighboring states that have the subsidies. The simply cant offer the purses the others can and as a result have had problems filling cards.

And the lowering of takeout is something that alot of people think will be the savior of racing and without getting into specifics, both Canterbury and the meadowlands tried it and lost alot of money.

I think some tracks just fall in love with the idea of being able to say, "We have the lowest takeout in the country!" and hope it works.

I would love to see an optimal takeout study done now (or perhaps I missed it) that takes into consideration the fact that we have simulcasting now.

[upthecreek]

All good points I just don't think depending on one form of gambling to save another is the answer

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I actually agree with you 100%, but im biased :)

[onefast99]

All good points I just don't think depending on one form of gambling to save another is the answerIt isnt the dependency on the slots or VLTs it is having the ability to attract more people to your venue. The gambling dollar has left the state for neighboring states that offer a variety of gaming. Limiting yourself to one revenue stream will eventually become your demise.

[thespaah]

79% voted against. :eek:

Looks like Caputo will decide if he will try to amend legislation to allow slot machines to avoid a referendum, but will be based on how this casino expansion vote turned out. Not looking good.

Hard to be optimistic about NJ racing after the previous Monmouth meet and this being shot down.
Typical New Jersey "we oppose everything" result..
New Jersey is so far gone. Last one to leave please remember to turn off the lights. Aww, to hell with it. No one's paying the bill anyway.

[thespaah]

Well you can mark this day as the day Monmouth Park was sentenced to death. At this point it's just a matter of time.

There's no words for what the South Jersey political machine did to Gural and his crew. Ate his lunch and then some. I'm fairly certain in the upcoming months he'll announce his exercising of the out on his Meadowlands lease.

Here's the kicker. Gural waved the white flag last month. So why did anti-casino people keep spending money when the competition had left town? Simple. They weren't trying to win a vote. They were trying to win a mandate. They didn't win a vote they won an issue long-term. 79%! It'll will be a long-time before someone financial backs a campaign to open a Meadowlands casino. And that's what the anti-casino people wanted. Not victory. Total defeat of the opposition.

Rough day to be a Jersey racing fan.
With the casino license for Tioga Downs locked into place,
My guess is Jeff Gural will be a memory in 6 month...This upcoming 2017 harness meet at the Meadowlands may very well be the last in the storied track's 40 year history.
There is no reason for Gural to continue.
It is obvious that the voters of New Jersey could not care less about the horse racing or the casino gaming business. They stay away in droves.
This vote also sends a death chill to Atlantic City casinos as well. That is because part of the legislative proposal left open a revenue stream from any North Jersey casino to the AC gambling houses.
That's gone now.
My thinking is AC casinos will continue to be shuttered one by one.

[thespaah]

You would think its not just south jersey it's Ny and Pa too.
Oh yea, It is well known that Genting was spending tons of money on political ads in opposition to the referendum.

[thespaah]

NOTHING is happening until Phil Murphy is sitting in the Governor's office.
Then nothing will happen after that. The reason is, the Assembly and Senate members in Trenton are not going to risk their elected office by defying or even debating any legislation to allow casinos outside of AC. The people who voted no in this referendum would lash out at the voting polls.
NJ residents are pretty adamant that they want nothing done. This gives them a reason to participate in their favorite pastime. Complaining. NJ people are not happy unless they are complaining about something. I should know, i grew up there.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

With the casino license for Tioga Downs locked into place,
My guess is Jeff Gural will be a memory in 6 month...This upcoming 2017 harness meet at the Meadowlands may very well be the last in the storied track's 40 year history.
There is no reason for Gural to continue.
It is obvious that the voters of New Jersey could not care less about the horse racing or the casino gaming business. They stay away in droves.
This vote also sends a death chill to Atlantic City casinos as well. That is because part of the legislative proposal left open a revenue stream from any North Jersey casino to the AC gambling houses.
That's gone now.
My thinking is AC casinos will continue to be shuttered one by one.

I can legitimately see a day in the not so far future where there will be three casinos in AC. Borgata, Caesars, and possibly Tropicana. Far cry from what it used to be. Means my rooms at the Borgata will be $700 a night on the weekdays over the summer :D

[thespaah]

The proposal lost 78-22 ouch! But it looks like some people are still hoping against hope:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/single-north-jersey-casino-pitch-could-win-over-voters-supporters-say-1.1690453
That proposal may work.

[thespaah]

VLTs could be put in both the Meadowlands and Monmouth under a bill that passed in 1982(Kean overturned it in 1983), these machines could total 5000 between the two racetracks and this would fall under the State Lottery Commission and wouldn't need a referendum. The opinion says "no constitutional or statutory bar to the incorporation of a consumer-operated video games terminal into, and to be made part of, the New Jersey State Lottery." Based on this approach we could and most likely will see the VLTs at the racetracks.
This is the problem with binding referendum states. Proposals are subject to the whims of voters who are usually too lazy or too busy to inform themselves on what it is they are voting.
Plus, referendums are part of the 'tyranny of democracy'..
50% plus one is no way to govern

[thespaah]

I'm sorry the last thing NJ needs is more casino's How bout racing come up with a plan to save itself , instead of relying on casinos
Promote it
Educate people
Fan friendly & family events
Of course lower takeouts
Maybe some kind of "lottery " type wager ,that's affordable (compared to the $2 pick 6)
Having to depend on casino revenue is not the way to go IMO, of course I know I'm naive and I'll be told I have no clue
Encouraging words. Unfortunately, that time has passed.

[thespaah]

As it relates to monmouth..

They do have a jackpot bet, the jersey shore pick 6 with a 20 cent base. I honestly dont ever remember them having a $2 pick 6

Monmouth has events just about every weekend that draws ALOT of people. It is well advertised and people show up in force. I think the casino subsidy or VLTs are needed to stabilize things for now. They are getting hit on all sides from neighboring states that have the subsidies. The simply cant offer the purses the others can and as a result have had problems filling cards.

And the lowering of takeout is something that alot of people think will be the savior of racing and without getting into specifics, both Canterbury and the meadowlands tried it and lost alot of money.

I think some tracks just fall in love with the idea of being able to say, "We have the lowest takeout in the country!" and hope it works.

I would love to see an optimal takeout study done now (or perhaps I missed it) that takes into consideration the fact that we have simulcasting now.
Then please explain why even though "a lot of people show up" Monmouth Park is bleeding money from it's eyeballs.

[RunForTheRoses]

Then please explain why even though "a lot of people show up" Monmouth Park is bleeding money from it's eyeballs.

People show up for food trucks and wait for 2 hours to get a Korean Taco.No time to bet.

Other than some events like the food trucks the place is dead compared to what it was just 15 years ago. I know there's a thread about parking at AQU but general parking at Monmouth was free and now is about 4 bucks, I usually just make one maybe two appearances, I don't need to be nickel and dimed.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Then please explain why even though "a lot of people show up" Monmouth Park is bleeding money from it's eyeballs.

Simply put they dont bet. Foodtruck weekend there is a madhouse, but most come just for that very reason. Haskell is always busy, same with Fathers day too.

Seems like once the Haskell is over attendance drops off dramatically. They typically hold some sort of event just about every weekend. They do a great job of getting people in the door, just not the types that bet much.

The racing product itself has left something to be desired, especially with Paco hitting at like 40% and Navarro almost as high. Short fields are also an issue, but the same can be said for the majority of the tracks that operate and run on top of each other in the midatlantic.

I would be curious to see how much they handle on Belmont and Saratoga. Myself along with plenty of others I know there usually bet those the majority of the day despite the live racing taking place.

[proximity]

I can legitimately see a day in the not so far future where there will be three casinos in AC. Borgata, Caesars, and possibly Tropicana. Far cry from what it used to be. Means my rooms at the Borgata will be $700 a night on the weekdays over the summer :D

idk, revel will probably open back up?

[biggestal99]

What about exchange betting ? I don't hear much about it. Was it a success ?

Z

I bet the NJX.

Not sure about the success or lack there of.

Most US major tracks are not included.

But there are some major UK tracks that we in Jersey can do (Newmarket, Ascot)

Have made some decent money laying horse at minor tracks (right now Delta downs, Zia Park, Turf Paradise and Mountineer).

Lots of fun.

Allan

[biggestal99]

People show up for food trucks and wait for 2 hours to get a Korean Taco.No time to bet.

Other than some events like the food trucks the place is dead compared to what it was just 15 years ago. I know there's a thread about parking at AQU but general parking at Monmouth was free and now is about 4 bucks, I usually just make one maybe two appearances, I don't need to be nickel and dimed.

They closed down the free parking lot near the picnic area.

as stated had to pay 4 bucks to parks. Rip off city.

I went the day before the haskell and it was a ghost town. maybe 5K tops.

really sad to see.

Allan

[onefast99]

They closed down the free parking lot near the picnic area.

as stated had to pay 4 bucks to parks. Rip off city.

I went the day before the haskell and it was a ghost town. maybe 5K tops.

really sad to see.

Allan
The day before the Haskell has always been a quiet day.

[Longshot6977]

They closed down the free parking lot near the picnic area.

as stated had to pay 4 bucks to parks. Rip off city.

I went the day before the haskell and it was a ghost town. maybe 5K tops.

really sad to see.

Allan

I love Monmouth Park. It definitely is not the same anymore. However, I know a security guard there who has worked there about 35-40 years. I attended live racing one Friday in 2014 during a severe storm. There was no more than 75-100 people in the place.

The attendance listed in the DRF pdf results showed about 3,000 people. WTH? I saw the same security guard 2 days later on Sunday and asked him about the attendance number. He said they can't lie about the handle, but they usually can and do about the attendance. He said they count the patrons, trainers, jockeys, employees and whoever else is on the grounds and the horses and all their legs(LOL) to boost the attendance numbers (for the higher ups in the state). He agreed with me that on Friday there were about 100 people in the place. Go figure.

[thespaah]

Simply put they dont bet. Foodtruck weekend there is a madhouse, but most come just for that very reason. Haskell is always busy, same with Fathers day too.

Seems like once the Haskell is over attendance drops off dramatically. They typically hold some sort of event just about every weekend. They do a great job of getting people in the door, just not the types that bet much.

The racing product itself has left something to be desired, especially with Paco hitting at like 40% and Navarro almost as high. Short fields are also an issue, but the same can be said for the majority of the tracks that operate and run on top of each other in the midatlantic.

I would be curious to see how much they handle on Belmont and Saratoga. Myself along with plenty of others I know there usually bet those the majority of the day despite the live racing taking place.
So the issue of 'a lot of people showing up' is moot.
If I understand this, many of those that show up do not contribute a dime to the bottom line of the facility.

[pandy]

Gural has said that he is not going to close the track after the 2017 season. He actually said that they're in it for the long haul, or at least a few more years. Of course he could change his mind, but he did say that recently. At first he was going to cut the stakes money, but decided not to.

[onefast99]

So the issue of 'a lot of people showing up' is moot.
If I understand this, many of those that show up do not contribute a dime to the bottom line of the facility.The average bet per person and ontrack handle has decreased significantly since the online betting with 4NJBETS and the OTWs came into existence.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

So the issue of 'a lot of people showing up' is moot.
If I understand this, many of those that show up do not contribute a dime to the bottom line of the facility.

From a handle perspective no. From gate and F&B, yes.