How did this Breeders Cup stack up with the rest?

[pele polo]

Don't think we could have seen a much better show from a fan's point of view. From the Distaff to the Classic and plenty of fine stretch runs in between. I could have easily been sour about this year considering I made six bets and all six of my keys were runner up finishes (Songbird, Lady Eli, Not This Time, Flintshire, Tepin, Chrome). Wallet still stings but I couldn't be a happier loser this morning.

How does this year's rendition compare to others for you all?

[Bullet Plane]

I'd say one of the best ever.

[nearco]

One of the best two days of racing I can remember in while.
Very enjoyable stuff for a racing fan.

[linrom1]

Worst ever. I hope they never host BC at Santa Anita again--the dirt track was slow and the turf favored speed. The only memorable races except Classic Empire were turf races: Oscar Performance, New Money Honey, Highland Reel and Tepin( despite jockey having her yet again too far back.) Lady Ely ran great too.

Last year at Kee was great, then at CD several years ago.

The only decent BC at Santa Anita was in 2009 when Zenyatta won the Classic.

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

I'd say one of the best ever.

Agreed. A thriller in both the Distaff and Classic - couldn't have asked for more.

[CincyHorseplayer]

As both a fan and player this was a great one.

[EasyGoer89]

Worst ever. I hope they never host BC at Santa Anita again--the dirt track was slow and the turf favored speed. The only memorable races except Classic Empire were turf races: Oscar Performance, New Money Honey, Highland Reel and Tepin( despite jockey having her yet again too far back.) Lady Ely ran great too.

Last year at Kee was great, then at CD several years ago.

The only decent BC at Santa Anita was in 2009 when Zenyatta won the Classic.

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird.

On a normal track, or the one they had in previous days and weeks, that longshot maybe runs past Songbird and Beholder at the wire, and then what happens? The speedy nature of the track prevented that from happening, if that happens and 'joe blow' beats the mighty Songbird and the Mighty Beholder, how do we view that from a historial perspective?

[LottaKash]

, if that happens and 'joe blow' beats the mighty Songbird and the Mighty Beholder, how do we view that from a historial perspective?

Doesn't matter...The only thing that matters is what the "real" outcome(s) is/was...

All in all, I really enjoyed this years BC racing, more than many that I have enjoyed thru the years..

Head to head battling all out finishes in classic races, win or lose, is what is most exciting in this sport of ours... wow !

[tanner12oz]

because of the television stupidity I was only able to view the distaff and the classic but both races lived up to the hype which is rare IMO in racing

[Tom]

It does't get much better than the past two days.
Both of the features on each more than lived up to the hype.

[dilanesp]

Worst ever. I hope they never host BC at Santa Anita again--the dirt track was slow and the turf favored speed. The only memorable races except Classic Empire were turf races: Oscar Performance, New Money Honey, Highland Reel and Tepin( despite jockey having her yet again too far back.) Lady Ely ran great too.

Last year at Kee was great, then at CD several years ago.

The only decent BC at Santa Anita was in 2009 when Zenyatta won the Classic.

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird.

Given the attendance figures and the weather, you can be assured that the BC will be back at Santa Anita.

[PaceAdvantage]

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Arrogate not a star? He's a MONSTER. Should be HOY. I know he gets my vote.

I thought it was a great two days of racing.

[Redboard]

Yea, a great two days of racing! Let's face it, Santa Anita is the best place for it, although we'd all like to see it rotate to more venues.

[Broad Brush]

I thought it was a great two days of racing.

I was always a fan of the BC moving around especially to Belmont,
but I find myself more and more liking that it is going to be "fast & firm"
and good weather at SA.

[horses4courses]

Just looking at both feature races each day,
how can it get much better than that?

Sure, out of the other 11 races, not all were classics.
The vast majority of them were memorable, though.

As a showcase for the sport of horse racing,
the BC weekend still does it for me. :ThmbUp:

[michiken]

sure beats THE 'POLYTRACK' years.

How soon we forget?

:6::6::6:

[CincyHorseplayer]

It does't get much better than the past two days.
Both of the features on each more than lived up to the hype.

Right on Tom.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I am definitely for a movable BC. But SA has been very good to me when it's there. Forget the weather! :D

[bobphilo]

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird.
People will need a poor memory to forget the horses that beat them.
Arrogate not a star? Beholder will be forgotten? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You wouldn't be a sore loser, would you?

[Rackon]

Worst ever. I hope they never host BC at Santa Anita again--the dirt track was slow and the turf favored speed. The only memorable races except Classic Empire were turf races: Oscar Performance, New Money Honey, Highland Reel and Tepin( despite jockey having her yet again too far back.) Lady Ely ran great too.

Last year at Kee was great, then at CD several years ago.

The only decent BC at Santa Anita was in 2009 when Zenyatta won the Classic.

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird.

Your favorite song must be "Is That All There Is".

Arrogate is the very definition of a "star". He's a superstar in the making - maybe the best horse in decades, best horse since _______(fill in the blank) - always assuming Baffert can keep him together, of course. If he stays sound, he's a monster.

CC is the biggest star in US racing. He's certainly the most beloved race horse in North America. If Arrogate wasn't in the Classic, Chrome crushes by 11. He's still (at the very least) the second best dirt horse in the world.

Beholder, Songbird, Lady Eli, Found, Tepin, Flintshire...all stars in my book. Plus many other top horses throughout the two days, including a bunch of really interesting Euros.

IMO this was one of the best BCs for overall quality, plus the Distaff and Classic were both outstanding races with nail biting finishes.

I've only seen the Breeders Cups in person when they were at Churchill. And there are individual BC races that may be more "memorable" for me personally e.g. Winning Colors and Personal Ensign, Easy Goer and Sunday Silence. But for quality and thrills I thought this year's edition was the bomb.

[woodbinepmi]

Worst ever. I hope they never host BC at Santa Anita again--the dirt track was slow and the turf favored speed. The only memorable races except Classic Empire were turf races: Oscar Performance, New Money Honey, Highland Reel and Tepin( despite jockey having her yet again too far back.) Lady Ely ran great too.

Last year at Kee was great, then at CD several years ago.

The only decent BC at Santa Anita was in 2009 when Zenyatta won the Classic.

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird.

Hey mister, can you throw us your ball back please?

[EMD4ME]

On a normal track, or the one they had in previous days and weeks, that longshot maybe runs past Songbird and Beholder at the wire, and then what happens? The speedy nature of the track prevented that from happening, if that happens and 'joe blow' beats the mighty Songbird and the Mighty Beholder, how do we view that from a historial perspective?

Awesomely as I crushed Unbridled forever to win :bang: :lol:

[linrom1]

Chrome is a better overall horse than Arrogate. Can Arrogate win a race at a 1 Mile? How about 1 1/16 MILES or 1 1/8? Do you think that Arrogate could've won Kentucky Derby and two weeks later win the Preakness?

Arrogate is a exceptional horse at races run at 1 1/4. That's all. He is no more exceptional than Found is at races run at 1 1/2 MILES on Turf.

Regardless he only edged out Chrome at the wire, he did not decisively defeat Chrome! Suppose the track at Santa Anita was faster, could Arrogate catch Chrome if Victor lets Chrome run instead of looking around?

[EMD4ME]

Chrome is a better overall horse than Arrogate. Can Arrogate win a race at a 1 Mile? How about 1 1/16 MILES or 1 1/8? Do you think that Arrogate could've won Kentucky Derby and two weeks later win the Preakness?

Arrogate is a exceptional horse at races run at 1 1/4. That's all. He is no more exceptional than Found is at races run at 1 1/2 MILES on Turf.

Regardless he only edged out Chrome at the wire, he did not decisively defeat Chrome! Suppose the track at Santa Anita was faster, could Arrogate catch Chrome if Victor lets Chrome run instead of looking around?

PLEASE, WAGER WITH (MEANING-AGAINST ME) ME in head to head matchups.

You are a sharpie's dream come true.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Your favorite song must be "Is That All There Is".

Arrogate is the very definition of a "star". He's a superstar in the making - maybe the best horse in decades, best horse since _______(fill in the blank) - always assuming Baffert can keep him together, of course. If he stays sound, he's a monster.

CC is the biggest star in US racing. He's certainly the most beloved race horse in North America. If Arrogate wasn't in the Classic, Chrome crushes by 11. He's still (at the very least) the second best dirt horse in the world.

Beholder, Songbird, Lady Eli, Found, Tepin, Flintshire...all stars in my book. Plus many other top horses throughout the two days, including a bunch of really interesting Euros.

IMO this was one of the best BCs for overall quality, plus the Distaff and Classic were both outstanding races with nail biting finishes.

I've only seen the Breeders Cups in person when they were at Churchill. And there are individual BC races that may be more "memorable" for me personally e.g. Winning Colors and Personal Ensign, Easy Goer and Sunday Silence. But for quality and thrills I thought this year's edition was the bomb.

My short summaries haven't quite captured it. You nailed it man. Great post! :ThmbUp:

[CincyHorseplayer]

PLEASE, WAGER WITH (MEANING-AGAINST ME) ME in head to head matchups.

You are a sharpie's dream come true.

I only have 1 thought for that dude EMD! LOL.

https://youtu.be/yd972J6f4IY

[AskinHaskin]

Chrome is a better overall horse than Arrogate. Can Arrogate win a race at a 1 Mile? How about 1 1/16 MILES or 1 1/8? Do you think that Arrogate could've won Kentucky Derby and two weeks later win the Preakness?

Arrogate is a exceptional horse at races run at 1 1/4. That's all.

Regardless he only edged out Chrome at the wire, he did not decisively defeat Chrome! Suppose the track at Santa Anita was faster, could Arrogate catch Chrome if Victor lets Chrome run instead of looking around?


ROFL

You have zero clue.

Chrome had a monsterous pace edge, and looked every bit an easy winner before he was simply swallowed whole by a markedly better individual.

Arrogate was probably 5 lengths better than Chrome on Saturday and that while still racing green and inexperienced.

Just imagine what would have transpired had any real pace materialized...


Thanks, though, for the absurd humor which doubles as your lack of understanding.

[Parkview_Pirate]

I've handicapped and bet every Breeder's Cup except the first year in 1984. I didn't cash any big tickets this year, but there was plenty of great racing and a few decent prices.

However, I can't help but feel the talent is diluted now with so many races across two days. I'd prefer a return to the one day, eight or nine race format. This year's Distaff and Classic back-to-back would have been incredible, especially if NBC saw fit to carry more than a single race. As long as coverage remains on pay, obscure sports channels, it's going to be hard to grow the sport.

The obvious races to look at removing would be a couple of the Juv Filly turf, Juv Filly, F&M Turf, and the F&M Sprint. In place of those races, some $100 or $200K undercard stakes would be fine, and I'd like to see some Breeder's Cup money flow to several races in foreign venues over the same weekend. A race or two from Ireland/England/France, Argentina/Uruguay/Brazil/Chile, Japan/Hong Kong/Australia and maybe South Africa would certainly lend more credibility to the phrase "World Thoroughbred Championships".

[depalma113]

Chrome is a better overall horse than Arrogate. Can Arrogate win a race at a 1 Mile? How about 1 1/16 MILES or 1 1/8? Do you think that Arrogate could've won Kentucky Derby and two weeks later win the Preakness?

Arrogate is a exceptional horse at races run at 1 1/4. That's all. He is no more exceptional than Found is at races run at 1 1/2 MILES on Turf.

Regardless he only edged out Chrome at the wire, he did not decisively defeat Chrome! Suppose the track at Santa Anita was faster, could Arrogate catch Chrome if Victor lets Chrome run instead of looking around?

The amount of straight up ignorance in this post is mind boggling.

[the little guy]

Worst ever. I hope they never host BC at Santa Anita again--the dirt track was slow and the turf favored speed. The only memorable races except Classic Empire were turf races: Oscar Performance, New Money Honey, Highland Reel and Tepin( despite jockey having her yet again too far back.) Lady Ely ran great too.

Last year at Kee was great, then at CD several years ago.

The only decent BC at Santa Anita was in 2009 when Zenyatta won the Classic.

This BC was like watching Jax play Tampa--not a single star...and Arrogate is not a STAR. In a few days none will remember any horse form this BC except Chrome and Songbird.


Not to pile on....but wasn't this really all we had to see?

Have a little respect please.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

However, I can't help but feel the talent is diluted now with so many races across two days. I'd prefer a return to the one day, eight or nine race format. This year's Distaff and Classic back-to-back would have been incredible, especially if NBC saw fit to carry more than a single race. As long as coverage remains on pay, obscure sports channels, it's going to be hard to grow the sport.


This!

[dilanesp]

Not to pile on....but wasn't this really all we had to see?

Have a little respect please.

I don't agree with linrom's post, but you really think a typo proves anything?

[the little guy]

I don't agree with linrom's post, but you really think a typo proves anything?

Stop making it personal.

[dilanesp]

The ship has sailed on NBC.

They were willing to basically carry the 7 or 8 race BC every year back in the day. But the BC got greedy, wanted 2 days, and got ESPN to pay them some more money. By the time they got back to NBC, the BC was bloated with extra races and NBC had purchased Versus, which they use to air second tier sports.

I doubt NBC has any interest in devoting 4.5 hours of network airtime to the BC at this point. Once the BC sold out to cable, the die was cast.

[dilanesp]

Stop making it personal.

TLG, again, nothing in that post was personal.

Why are you pretending not to know the difference between an argument (typos don't indicate a post is wrong) and a personal attack (calling me an idiot)?

Everyone else here understands this. It's only you who doesn't.

You REALLY need to cool it.

[the little guy]

TLG, again, nothing in that post was personal.

Why are you pretending not to know the difference between an argument (typos don't indicate a post is wrong) and a personal attack (calling me an idiot)?

Everyone else here understands this. It's only you who doesn't.

You REALLY need to cool it.


Stop making it personal.

[Grits]

It was an outstanding two days of championship racing. The most fun I've ever had betting the BC on the west coast.

Is there still such a thing as favorite horses? Mine are now Tamarkuz and Tourist. Win bets and exactas. Other winners were good, I'm grateful, but they didn't pay what these two did.

Thank you very much, KMac and Billy Mott, and A.Serling (liking Tourist)!!

[PhantomOnTour]

I've handicapped and bet every Breeder's Cup except the first year in 1984. I didn't cash any big tickets this year, but there was plenty of great racing and a few decent prices.

However, I can't help but feel the talent is diluted now with so many races across two days. I'd prefer a return to the one day, eight or nine race format. This year's Distaff and Classic back-to-back would have been incredible, especially if NBC saw fit to carry more than a single race. As long as coverage remains on pay, obscure sports channels, it's going to be hard to grow the sport.

The obvious races to look at removing would be a couple of the Juv Filly turf, Juv Filly, F&M Turf, and the F&M Sprint. In place of those races, some $100 or $200K undercard stakes would be fine, and I'd like to see some Breeder's Cup money flow to several races in foreign venues over the same weekend. A race or two from Ireland/England/France, Argentina/Uruguay/Brazil/Chile, Japan/Hong Kong/Australia and maybe South Africa would certainly lend more credibility to the phrase "World Thoroughbred Championships".
I agree - somewhat.

The only races that I think should/could be consolidated are the Juvenile Turf races, leaving us with one less BrCup race.
I would even keep the Dirt Mile as I don't think it really detracts from the Sprint or Classic...other than Liam's Map and maybe Shackleford (2nd to Calebs Posse in 2011) I can't think of any other runners who may have had a solid impact in the Classic.
Goldencents? No
Tapiture? Maybe
Gun Runner? Okay, yes, but not this year with those two monsters entered

I would like to see it shortened to one day. They went the Derby/Preakness route by promoting a big Friday card (usually for the ladies) and doing all sorts of promos for it...it's a business after all, and getting an extra day of good attendance (the rarest thing in racing today) at higher than normal admission charges isn't something the tracks are gonna give up easily.

[Grits]

There would have to be a tremendous amount of attrition to take it back to one day. As it is, Saturday, now, is a very long day. It would have to be run, in part, under the lights if all were to go back to years ago.

[Grits]

One thing I noted a day or two prior. There was one BC ad, this one, that I absolutely loved. Unfortunately, it got the least action of all the ads. When all is said and done, it's about the betting. There's no doubt, the horseplayers make it all go. When many are discussing it, aside from here, things are too pretty pony.

http://www.breederscup.com/wagering

[dilanesp]

Stop making it personal.

TLG, you've said that already, now three times. It's time to move on.

[burnsy]

sure beats THE 'POLYTRACK' years.

How soon we forget?

:6::6::6:

That's something they want you to forget. Those were awful. That turned out to be a complete failure. I'll never understand that "brain fart" at Keenland and California where it is not even necessary. It was just dumb and they got sold a "bill of crap." It was a laugher for me day 1. Then I made the mistake of going in 2009, have not been back since.

This years racing was pretty damn good though. I may go back like the sucker I am.

[linrom1]

There is ZERO public interest in Arrogate! If Chrome runs again at PEGASUS at a distance of 1 1/8 or 1 1/16 MILES, Arrogate won't even show up! Yet there is going to be 20,000 fans to see Chrome...and that is the definition of what a STAR is. :jump:

So please keep your stupid comments to yourself.

[ronsmac]

ROFL

You have zero clue.

Chrome had a monsterous pace edge, and looked every bit an easy winner before he was simply swallowed whole by a markedly better individual.

Arrogate was probably 5 lengths better than Chrome on Saturday and that while still racing green and inexperienced.

Just imagine what would have transpired had any real pace materialized...


Thanks, though, for the absurd humor which doubles as your lack of understanding.Arrogate may indeed be better than Chrome, but if he's 5 lengths better we're looking at a top 5 all time dirt horse

[PaceAdvantage]

There is ZERO public interest in Arrogate! If Chrome runs again at PEGASUS at a distance of 1 1/8 or 1 1/16 MILES, Arrogate won't even show up! Yet there is going to be 20,000 fans to see Chrome...and that is the definition of what a STAR is. :jump:

So please keep your stupid comments to yourself.Chrome who?

[Grits]

There is ZERO public interest in Arrogate! If Chrome runs again at PEGASUS at a distance of 1 1/8 or 1 1/16 MILES, Arrogate won't even show up! Yet there is going to be 20,000 fans to see Chrome...and that is the definition of what a STAR is. :jump:

So please keep your stupid comments to yourself.

Fact: Many "fans" are not horseplayers, aka BETTORS.. So, you may want to back off calling others' comments stupid!

Fans don't put money through the windows. They flow in, yell, wear hats, hold up signs and disappear until the coming of their next anointed steed. :faint:

[depalma113]

There is ZERO public interest in Arrogate! If Chrome runs again at PEGASUS at a distance of 1 1/8 or 1 1/16 MILES, Arrogate won't even show up! Yet there is going to be 20,000 fans to see Chrome...and that is the definition of what a STAR is. :jump:

So please keep your stupid comments to yourself.

You go ahead and bet your money on a 6 year-old California Chrome going against a 4 year-old Arrogate going a mile and an eighth. I will take good care of it, just as I am taking good care of the money you lost on Saturday.

And as for the "star" nonsense.

Thousands of people want to see the Kardashians too.

[linrom1]

You go ahead and bet your money on a 6 year-old California Chrome going against a 4 year-old Arrogate going a mile and an eighth. I will take good care of it, just as I am taking good care of the money you lost on Saturday.

And as for the "star" nonsense.

Thousands of people want to see the Kardashians too.

Don't worry your money is safe, Arrogate won't make it to the Pegasus. MY BET was Tepin/Arrogate DD, FYI.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I loved this year as I have every other year. Loved the weather there too. I enjoy the two day format, but also enjoy long race days. It almost went too quick.

I still would like to see it rotate more.

Regardless of it they ran it in a K Mart parking lot, it will always be my favorite
"holiday/event" of the year, next to Christmas and opening day trout

[dilanesp]

I loved this year as I have every other year. Loved the weather there too. I enjoy the two day format, but also enjoy long race days. It almost went too quick.

I still would like to see it rotate more.

Regardless of it they ran it in a K Mart parking lot, it will always be my favorite
"holiday/event" of the year, next to Christmas and opening day trout

They are rotating it. 4 different sites in 4 years.

But they aren't running a charity and they aren't just trying to spread the event around. Good weather is important for the event (if it is to decide championships), and they need to make money putting it on.

So it's going to mainly be in Southern California and Kentucky. That doesn't mean we will never see it elsewhere again, but there are good reasons why those places get most of them (just as Florida, New Orleans, and California have gotten the bulk of the Super Bowls).

[depalma113]

Don't worry your money is safe, Arrogate won't make it to the Pegasus. MY BET was Tepin/Arrogate DD, FYI.

You better tell Juddmonte because that is where he is going.

[Fager Fan]

One thing I noted a day or two prior. There was one BC ad, this one, that I absolutely loved. Unfortunately, it got the least action of all the ads. When all is said and done, it's about the betting. There's no doubt, the horseplayers make it all go. When many are discussing it, aside from here, things are too pretty pony.

http://www.breederscup.com/wagering

Sorry, but the big days of racing are actually funded by fans and owners more than the handle. Just add up the admissions to see this. Let's figure an average of $500 x 100,000. That's $50 million.

Owners, Breeders pay hefty nominations, start fees, etc which add surely $10+ million more.

I'm not trying to denigrate the handle income, but it's not factual to talk of its importance on the few days in racing where it's really the fans and everywhere else that pulls in the cash hand over fist.

[Robert Fischer]

From my perspective at least, this Breeders Cup was top class.

The races offered multiple opinions and were for the most part contested by division leaders in near-peak form.
The races were a challenge, while at the same time, extremely logical.
Beyond built-in track-configuration bias, the course was extremely fair this year, and well-groomed.
The betting menu was attractive. The weather cooperated.

I'll leave 'ranking' this BC to those with better historical compass.

[Fan Since The 50's]

I loved this year's renewal of the Breeder's Cup in general. The Distaff at the top of the lane made me think back to the 1990 Distaff though. Don't you think the circumstances were very similar? I am so glad 2016's Distaff had a much more pleasant conclusion.

[dilanesp]

Sorry, but the big days of racing are actually funded by fans and owners more than the handle. Just add up the admissions to see this. Let's figure an average of $500 x 100,000. That's $50 million.

Owners, Breeders pay hefty nominations, start fees, etc which add surely $10+ million more.

I'm not trying to denigrate the handle income, but it's not factual to talk of its importance on the few days in racing where it's really the fans and everywhere else that pulls in the cash hand over fist.

Your numbers are off, but your basic premise is right. There were lines at the souvenir stands on Saturday. Lines for food. They had a fancy hat shop at Santa Anita.

The business model of the BC is very much based on live attendance. They love Churchill even though the per capitas there are lower than other tracks- they don't require a gigantic handle so long as tickets are expensive, sponsors are plentiful, and people are buying stuff.

Bettors are still crucial to the sport, but they become a bit less crucial on the biggest race days.

[the little guy]

Your numbers are off, but your basic premise is right. There were lines at the souvenir stands on Saturday. Lines for food. They had a fancy hat shop at Santa Anita.

The business model of the BC is very much based on live attendance. They love Churchill even though the per capitas there are lower than other tracks- they don't require a gigantic handle so long as tickets are expensive, sponsors are plentiful, and people are buying stuff.

Bettors are still crucial to the sport, but they become a bit less crucial on the biggest race days.

Do you understand why the per capita betting numbers were extremely strong this year at SA? Do you understand why they are growing in general at the BC?

[dilanesp]

Do you understand why the per capita betting numbers were extremely strong this year at SA? Do you understand why they are growing in general at the BC?

I don't. I really don't know the ins and outs of what the BC does or doesn't do to generate handle.

I do know they have far more revenue from non-handle sources than the vast majority of racing operations.

[menifee]

This year's Breeders Cup was probably the best in some time.

I really do not like that they are limiting it to Kentucky and California. If you are trying to grow the sport and interest in the sport, the east coast fan, Canadian fan, southern fan have no opportunity to see this event live.

I really enjoyed it when they had it at Woodbine, Lone Star Park, Belmont, Gulfstream. Having the event at other tracks gives the local fan a once in a lifetime opportunity to see the best horses in the world. The 2004 Classic at Lone Star was a tremendous event, especially for all the fans who saw it live.

[the little guy]

I don't. I really don't know the ins and outs of what the BC does or doesn't do to generate handle.

I do know they have far more revenue from non-handle sources than the vast majority of racing operations.


The BC Betting Challenge.

As for the second paragraph, which you felt a need to add for God knows what reason, it's a ridiculous non-sequitur. It's like saying they have more purple in their ads than any other racing operation.

[dilanesp]

The BC Betting Challenge.

As for the second paragraph, which you felt a need to add for God knows what reason, it's a ridiculous non-sequitur. It's like saying they have more purple in their ads than any other racing operation.

No, it was my entire point. You don't need as much revenue from handle when you are making so much from other sources.

Per capita is always low at Churchill (maybe the handicapping challenge will change that) but they still make money there due to all the other revenue.

[the little guy]

No, it was my entire point. You don't need as much revenue from handle when you are making so much from other sources.

Per capita is always low at Churchill (maybe the handicapping challenge will change that) but they still make money there due to all the other revenue.

We've already established that you have little clue ( I'm trying to be nice ) as to how money is made in this industry. While I appreciate you padding your resume, it was unnecessary.

[thaskalos]

We've already established that you have little clue ( I'm trying to be nice ) as to how money is made in this industry. While I appreciate you padding your resume, it was unnecessary.

Be a little more tolerant of him. After all...he is mainly a poker player.

[dilanesp]

We've already established that you have little clue ( I'm trying to be nice ) as to how money is made in this industry. While I appreciate you padding your resume, it was unnecessary.

TLG, you really need to stop. This is turning into a 1 way personal vendetta.

You posted a big post about how you thought I was wrong about Rachel Alexandra's Woodward. PA responded with a mic drop. I thought parts of it were wrong, but it was nonetheless a perfectly good post and shows what you are capable of when you decide to do a substantive post.

But you've now made about 10 personal attacks on me in the last two days. Why? What makes you think that calling me names on a message board is either necessary, appropriate, or effective advocacy of your position?

If you want to say why I am wrong about something, have at it. The floor is yours. But if you just want to insult me, keep it to yourself. We are supposed to be adults here. Act like one.

[PaceAdvantage]

You get a mic drop for that one too! :lol:

He's just keeping up appearances so that his haters have something to hate on...plus he never shies away from letting people know he thinks their opinions don't hold much water. I like that about him...I'm guessing you don't feel the same way.

[the little guy]

You get a mic drop for that one too! :lol:

He's just keeping up appearances so that his haters have something to hate on...plus he never shies away from letting people know he thinks their opinions don't hold much water. I like that about him...I'm guessing you don't feel the same way.

He's trying the old "stop making it personal" to deflect attention from him being wrong about things. Fortunately....I'm not fooled :lol: :lol:

[Fager Fan]

The BC Betting Challenge.

As for the second paragraph, which you felt a need to add for God knows what reason, it's a ridiculous non-sequitur. It's like saying they have more purple in their ads than any other racing operation.

Because the convo was about revenue from fans versus gamblers. It started when someone complained about the telecast aiming for the former rather than the latter, when the latter is supposedly so much more important. I responded that for the BC and TC, that's not true, and Dilan joined the convo. I really don't understand what you're prodding him about.

[Grits]

Because the convo was about revenue from fans versus gamblers. It started when someone complained about the telecast aiming for the former rather than the latter, when the latter is supposedly so much more important. I responded that for the BC and TC, that's not true, and Dilan joined the convo. I really don't understand what you're prodding him about.

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.

Sorry, but the big days of racing are actually funded by fans and owners more than the handle. Just add up the admissions to see this. Let's figure an average of $500 x 100,000. That's $50 million.

Owners, Breeders pay hefty nominations, start fees, etc which add surely $10+ million more.

I'm not trying to denigrate the handle income, but it's not factual to talk of its importance on the few days in racing where it's really the fans and everywhere else that pulls in the cash hand over fist.

I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

[Exotic1]

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.



I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

:ThmbUp:

[dilanesp]

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.



I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

Grits, it's possible for two things to both be true:

1. Without bettors and betting handle, most of this sport collapses (although the Kentucky Derby and a few other big races might survive in some fashion).
2. Tracks stand a lot better chance of making a profit when they get people physically to the track to spend money than if they have to rely on all sources handle alone.

The BC is about 2. That doesn't mean they don't care about 1-- as TLG points out, they added their handicapping challenge and do other things to increase handle. But their business model is centered on 2. They want a big live crowd that pays a lot for tickets, buys a lot of food and drink, buys souvenirs, etc. And while the BC and TC are somewhat sui generis, there's also a fair component of that business model at places like Del Mar, Saratoga, and Oaklawn, none of which would do as well as they do if they relied strictly on betting handle.

And the import of that is that racing operations that have these additional revenue sources may end up being somewhat less solicitous towards the desires of bettors than racing operations that rely on handle alone. Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised that the sport hasn't gone even further in that direction (e.g., I'm sure a higher takeout on the Kentucky Derby would probably be feasible). But when you see the BC do things that aren't necessarily good for the bettors, that's the reason.

[EagleEye Po]

[QUOTE=the little guy]The BC Betting Challenge.

What was the BC Betting Challenge handle?....thx.

[CincyHorseplayer]

How did a solid BC from a fan and betting perspective(for a lot of players on here) turn into this endless unhappy drivel? And it's all coming from 1 direction. West Coast isn't getting any love because they have acted like ingrates wire to wire throughout this BC!

[AskinHaskin]

There is ZERO public interest in Arrogate! If Chrome runs again at PEGASUS at a distance of 1 1/8 or 1 1/16 MILES, Arrogate won't even show up! Yet there is going to be 20,000 fans to see Chrome...and that is the definition of what a STAR is. :jump:

So please keep your stupid comments to yourself.


It has already been established that 3yo Arrogate is a markedly better/faster race horse than is aged California Chrome, who has at best defeated weak competition. California Chrome also earned the vast majority of his bankroll when racing in the middle east against competition watered-down by the switch from a synthetic surface back to dirt, at Meydan. The best Euros surely want no part of the dirt, where American runners revert to the advantages they knew there once before.


The 3yo will only improve considerably from this point forward, while Chrome should and will do himself the favor of retiring soon.

[AskinHaskin]

I really enjoyed it when they had it at Woodbine, Lone Star Park, Belmont, Gulfstream. Having the event at other tracks gives the local fan a once in a lifetime opportunity to see the best horses in the world. The 2004 Classic at Lone Star was a tremendous event, especially for all the fans who saw it live.


Did you ever stop to look-up the definition of "once in a lifetime" ?

[Fager Fan]

This was your response to me when I said the bettors make it all go.



I understand the nomination and the starting fees, however, this sport doesn't exist thanks to, and exclusive to, 5 days a year; three TC days and 2 BC days with fans buying hats, trinkets, tickets, drinks, shrimp cocktail and prime rib.

We don't agree. I think bettors, all sources handle are what hold this game up. I could be wrong but it seems like TLG might see things the same. Why don't you tell him that he's wrong, as you did me? .... You will, when pigs fly.

Here's what you said:

-----

One thing I noted a day or two prior. There was one BC ad, this one, that I absolutely loved. Unfortunately, it got the least action of all the ads. When all is said and done, it's about the betting. There's no doubt, the horseplayers make it all go. When many are discussing it, aside from here, things are too pretty pony.

------

You're complaining about the BC commercials being too fan-friendly (aka "pretty pony") when the BC clearly makes the biggest bulk of revenue from the fans (and owners/Breeders).

Just so you know, the world doesn't revolve around you, and I sure don't. If you say something I disagree with, I challenge it. I challenged TLG about going after Dilan, and the Chromie who is bashing Arrogate, and Dilan and another poster about Zenyatta/Rachel/synths/East Coast bias, all today. They aren't crying about it. Don't put your thoughts out there if you're not willing to have people challenge them.