15% Takeout On All Bets at Meadowlands Turf Meet

[pandy]

http://www.drf.com/news/meadowlands-lowers-takeout-14-day-turf-meet

[summersquall]

Free admission, parking & seating. Kudos to track management.

[Redboard]

Just looked at the opening day card. All claiming races, most haven’t won in years shipping from Monmouth with half going from dirt to turf, small purses none above $18k. This meet is not going to generate any buzz. Why bother?

[pandy]

Just looked at the opening day card. All claiming races, most haven’t won in years shipping from Monmouth with half going from dirt to turf, small purses none above $18k. This meet is not going to generate any buzz. Why bother?


10 to 14 horse fields, 15% takeout across the board, turf races. It sounds to me like something a lot of bettors will like. Tampa Bay does pretty good handle with claiming races.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

When they run harness they always have free parking and admission, as well as most seating options. It is nice they do that. I think I remember back in the day they charged $1 for admission and $1 a program. Now I think they just charge $2 or $3 for a live program :)

Yes they racing itself isn't spectacular, but if you look at some of the past turf meets and payoffs, you can get some very good prices on horses. The 15% take only makes it better. I will take a couple stabs this Saturday after playing Santa Anita and Belmont

[thespaah]

Just looked at the opening day card. All claiming races, most haven’t won in years shipping from Monmouth with half going from dirt to turf, small purses none above $18k. This meet is not going to generate any buzz. Why bother?
large fields. Lots of opps to find value.
Not seeing a problem.
Just a little more difficult to find the correct horses.
Sharper players should rejoice because there will be a lot of dead money in the pools.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I'll be on board baby! If you understand pedigree and the general nature of turf racing and are getting these takeouts it's hog heaven.

[whodoyoulike]

Thanks for the heads up sounds great!

After handicapping today's 2nd race I find out my ADW TVG doesn't cover the track and is probably the reason I don't recall ever making a bet there.

[EMD4ME]

I'll be on board baby! If you understand pedigree and the general nature of turf racing and are getting these takeouts it's hog heaven.

Agreed!

Plus now a dime super that pays $3000 will now pay $3400.

That's a HUGE difference.

[Redboard]

Thanks for the heads up sounds great!

After handicapping today's 2nd race I find out my ADW TVG doesn't cover the track and is probably the reason I don't recall ever making a bet there.

I can't either, TVG is the only ADW that New Jersey residents are allowed to join.

It's raining there now, but if you hurry you can catch the last race.

[affirmedny]

TVG/4NJbets took bets on it, it's listed as "Monmouth"

[Poindexter]

There is a huge problem with reduced takeout. You have to cash a ticket for the reduced takeout to matter. Wasn't so fortunate. But at least I get to feel the joy of supporting the cause.

[whodoyoulike]

TVG/4NJbets took bets on it, it's listed as "Monmouth"

Thanks. I don't get it. Is Meadowlands always reported as Monmouth? These are two separate tracks, correct?

[upthecreek]

Thanks. I don't get it. Is Meadowlands always reported as Monmouth? These are two separate tracks, correct?

Its Monmouth Meet @ the Meadowlands The Meadowlands doesn't run their own TB meet anymore

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Not surprising, payoffs were decent. Looking forward to playing Saturday if the rain holds off

[pandy]

Not surprising, payoffs were decent. Looking forward to playing Saturday if the rain holds off

I saw the first four races yesterday, good, competitive races.

[Redboard]

10 to 14 horse fields, ...........

Actually, 8 to 10 horse fields last night. Apparently, there's a limit of 10 starters.

I must admit the payouts are impressive. An exacta of 5-1 over 6-1 actually pays 30-1. Eureka!

[infrontby1]

But with only six races carded each night, by time you head out there from NYC after work, eat dinner and take in a beer or two, there's only time left for a race or two.

Too damn bad they don't card more races for Fridays and Saturdays like in the past when the live races would run up to 11 PM; even later like on the big nights when they used to card the Pegasus.

[EMD4ME]

But with only six races carded each night, by time you head out there from NYC after work, eat dinner and take in a beer or two, there's only time left for a race or two.

Too damn bad they don't card more races for Fridays and Saturdays like in the past when the live races would run up to 11 PM; even later like on the big nights when they used to card the Pegasus.

$15 for GW Bridge and $16 (back and forth) for the Triboro/Whitestone/Throgs Neck.

$31 to go to the MDW now for someone like me.

They better start at 730 and finish at 12 if I go. If not, it's totally useless.

I agree.

[thespaah]

Actually, 8 to 10 horse fields last night. Apparently, there's a limit of 10 starters.

I must admit the payouts are impressive. An exacta of 5-1 over 6-1 actually pays 30-1. Eureka!
I think that is because the temp rail was out 10 feet.
When they built the turf course, it was not thought out well. Rail to rail is only 70 feet.
BTW, Weds night handle was only $930k

[thespaah]

$15 for GW Bridge and $16 (back and forth) for the Triboro/Whitestone/Throgs Neck.

$31 to go to the MDW now for someone like me.

They better start at 730 and finish at 12 if I go. If not, it's totally useless.

I agree.
No E Z Pass for you?
Tolls in the NY Metro area are confiscatory. Too many hands in the cookie jars of both the MTA and PA of NY/NJ....
If I still lived up there, I would have to severely cut back on my visits to Citi Field and the track....Sucks.
I meet people from LI and NJ and I say to them. I have no idea how anyone who makes less than $150k per year can afford to live anywhere near NYC or out on Long Island.

[Inner Dirt]

There is a huge problem with reduced takeout. You have to cash a ticket for the reduced takeout to matter. Wasn't so fortunate. But at least I get to feel the joy of supporting the cause.


That is how I feel. I challenge anyone to stink as bad as me picking turf races. I won't play a pick 3 with a turf race in it. I won't bet a pick 4,5, or 6 if it has more than one turf race, where I typically will play 1/3 of the field and still miss half the time. If I do hit the turf race going 4 deep in a 12 horse field
the winner usually pays $6 or less. I have even went as far as making my own complicated speed figures that will take 2 hours to handicap a full field and that didn't work. I would be better off throwing darts at the program.

[EMD4ME]

OLffcVFkC8I No E Z Pass for you?
Tolls in the NY Metro area are confiscatory. Too many hands in the cookie jars of both the MTA and PA of NY/NJ....
If I still lived up there, I would have to severely cut back on my visits to Citi Field and the track....Sucks.
I meet people from LI and NJ and I say to them. I have no idea how anyone who makes less than $150k per year can afford to live anywhere near NYC or out on Long Island.

I hate EZPASS. Hated it from day 1. I have nothing to hide but hate to be tracked.

When I pass the cash lane, I hit the "KITT" license plate button and the fake plates get flipped over as the camera takes a shot. :lol:

Yes, if you make less than $150,000, you can't afford to fart around here as you can't afford to buy new underwear.

$5000 rents by me. It's insane.

[Inner Dirt]

No E Z Pass for you?
Tolls in the NY Metro area are confiscatory. Too many hands in the cookie jars of both the MTA and PA of NY/NJ....
If I still lived up there, I would have to severely cut back on my visits to Citi Field and the track....Sucks.
I meet people from LI and NJ and I say to them. I have no idea how anyone who makes less than $150k per year can afford to live anywhere near NYC or out on Long Island.

No joke. I went on a week vacation in that area a few months back some of the bridges cost $15 to cross, literally highway robbery. I think tolls for the week ate up a $100.

[ronsmac]

Just checked the handle from the first two cards. So far not so good. There's still time for big increases, but if this doesn't go over well .It may be the last time a track has a major takeout reduction.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Just checked the handle from the first two cards. So far not so good. There's still time for big increases, but if this doesn't go over well .It may be the last time a track has a major takeout reduction.

A lot of players have a snotty attitude towards betting low level turf claimers at night so handle on this might not be an all world indicator of things!

[DeanT]

Just checked the handle from the first two cards. So far not so good. There's still time for big increases, but if this doesn't go over well .It may be the last time a track has a major takeout reduction.

I thought they'd be doing a little better too, but with Monmouth down 26% this summer, who knows what's up or down in Jersey this season.

The payoffs have been nice though. Tri and super value is really good if you play those bets. I'll likely play the whole meet. Although I play it most years.

[pandy]

I really think that running a two week thoroughbred meet at a harness track has a lot to do with the handle. I bet a lot of horse players don't even know that they started the meet. They don't advertise much.

[ronsmac]

I thought they'd be doing a little better too, but with Monmouth down 26% this summer, who knows what's up or down in Jersey this season.

The payoffs have been nice though. Tri and super value is really good if you play those bets. I'll likely play the whole meet. Although I play it most years.That's probably true but after the Canterbury debacle, tracks are looking for immediate impact from takeout reductions. The way the game is played today it's impossible to gauge the results of these reductions unless every single track reduced their take at the same time. Even then some really smart numbers guy would have to formulate rebated players into that equation. My guess is this will be the last experiment of it's kind.

[AltonKelsey]

We may need to see a MAJOR like Cali or NY do a takeout drop, in order to gauge impact. And even then it may take time.

Seems slightly lower handle not enough to attract more play at smaller venues. They would have to go to 10% to get the attention of the big boys.

I saw people posting payoffs that exacta's were paying 75 and not 50 because of the 15% takeout. yeah.

[Redboard]

Pretty form-full so far considering everybody’s a shipper. The only winner to go off at over 10-1 was :3: I’m a Factum in Wednesday’s fourth race(18-1) and he was not some head-scratchin crazy longshot. A deep closer who got a good trip; won at Del park two months ago at similar conditions. After him no one was over 7-1.

As far as the dirt-to-turfers, of the 12 to hit the exacta, only three on Wednesday and one on Thursday. And only two actually won. :2: Forever Plus, class dropper who was coming off a last place finish in an off-the-turf race at the SPA. No surprise here, it was obvious that he is a turf horse. And :5: In A Flury in Wednesday’s first race, was also coming off a last place finish at the SPA. Again, no surprise here (went off at 6-1), third time starter who had gate issues last time out.

As far as Jockey angles, P Lopez is 5-2-1-0( 2 wins, 1 second, 0 thirds). Bocachica is 9-3-0-1. I see one of the Ortiz brothers, Jose, had one mount on Thursday, he came in second. Less than an hour ride from Belmont makes it possible to ride both tracks in the same day.

Trainer angles, Kate DeMasi has two wins. No one else with more than one, but it is only 12 races so detecting any kind of trends is near impossible.

As far as tonight, more rain coming in

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/east-rutherford-nj/07073/weather-radar/344423

so the turf is going to be pretty soft.

I’m singling :5: Came Back, 5-2, in the fourth race. That same P. Lopez with trainer Alan Goldberg. The horse won three of his last five with one of the losses being a dirt effort. The other was a last-out, off-a-layoff , where he was only two lengths short. Won on soft turf before. He should be ready to fire, although there is some stiff competition in the field.

As far as value plays:

Race 2: :9: My Little Darlings 6-1, –Cut back in distance should help this presser who’s dropping into the lowest level ranks. Has an extra weeks rest than most of these.

Race 3: :11: Honorable Love, 20-1, horse for the course angle, sort of. Had his best lifetime beyers in two races last fall at this same track on soft turf. Showed speed last time out.

[onefast99]

Pretty form-full so far considering everybody’s a shipper. The only winner to go off at over 10-1 was :3: I’m a Factum in Wednesday’s fourth race(18-1) and he was not some head-scratchin crazy longshot. A deep closer who got a good trip; won at Del park two months ago at similar conditions. After him no one was over 7-1.

As far as the dirt-to-turfers, of the 12 to hit the exacta, only three on Wednesday and one on Thursday. And only two actually won. :2: Forever Plus, class dropper who was coming off a last place finish in an off-the-turf race at the SPA. No surprise here, it was obvious that he is a turf horse. And :5: In A Flury in Wednesday’s first race, was also coming off a last place finish at the SPA. Again, no surprise here (went off at 6-1), third time starter who had gate issues last time out.

As far as Jockey angles, P Lopez is 5-2-1-0( 2 wins, 1 second, 0 thirds). Bocachica is 9-3-0-1. I see one of the Ortiz brothers, Jose, had one mount on Thursday, he came in second. Less than an hour ride from Belmont makes it possible to ride both tracks in the same day.

Trainer angles, Kate DeMasi has two wins. No one else with more than one, but it is only 12 races so detecting any kind of trends is near impossible.

As far as tonight, more rain coming in

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/east-rutherford-nj/07073/weather-radar/344423

so the turf is going to be pretty soft.

I’m singling :5: Came Back, 5-2, in the fourth race. That same P. Lopez with trainer Alan Goldberg. The horse won three of his last five with one of the losses being a dirt effort. The other was a last-out, off-a-layoff , where he was only two lengths short. Won on soft turf before. He should be ready to fire, although there is some stiff competition in the field.

As far as value plays:

Race 2: :9: My Little Darlings 6-1, –Cut back in distance should help this presser who’s dropping into the lowest level ranks. Has an extra weeks rest than most of these.

Race 3: :11: Honorable Love, 20-1, horse for the course angle, sort of. Had his best lifetime beyers in two races last fall at this same track on soft turf. Showed speed last time out.The jocks are saying the same thing the turf is too soft. I'm scratching tomorrow night not worth a horse getting injured.

[stuball]

That is how I feel. I challenge anyone to stink as bad as me picking turf races. I won't play a pick 3 with a turf race in it. I won't bet a pick 4,5, or 6 if it has more than one turf race, where I typically will play 1/3 of the field and still miss half the time. If I do hit the turf race going 4 deep in a 12 horse field
the winner usually pays $6 or less. I have even went as far as making my own complicated speed figures that will take 2 hours to handicap a full field and that didn't work. I would be better off throwing darts at the program.

Do you have darts already?? I think I have a few xtras LOL :lol:

[ronsmac]

We may need to see a MAJOR like Cali or NY do a takeout drop, in order to gauge impact. And even then it may take time.

Seems slightly lower handle not enough to attract more play at smaller venues. They would have to go to 10% to get the attention of the big boys.

I saw people posting payoffs that exacta's were paying 75 and not 50 because of the 15% takeout. yeah.The big boys are already at the 10% takeout range amd lower.

[ultracapper]

Just looked at the opening day card. All claiming races, most haven’t won in years shipping from Monmouth with half going from dirt to turf, small purses none above $18k. This meet is not going to generate any buzz. Why bother?

15% take, that's why.

I don't understand why players shy away from cheaper races just because they are cheap. If the fields are decent size, regardless of class, it becomes a decent, if not good betting opportunity. A 4/1 winner in a 5K mcl pays $10, exactly the same as a 4/1 Grade 1 winner.

[whodoyoulike]

I really think that running a two week thoroughbred meet at a harness track has a lot to do with the handle. I bet a lot of horse players don't even know that they started the meet. They don't advertise much.

I'm unfamiliar with both Meadowlands or Monmouth tracks.

Which is the harness track?

Which track are they racing at since it's Monmouth Meet @ Meadowlands?

Is it because they are adjacent?

If the racing is at the harness track, why would they have a turf course since I thought harness was only run on dirt?

Thanks.

[infrontby1]

$15 for GW Bridge and $16 (back and forth) for the Triboro/Whitestone/Throgs Neck.

$31 to go to the MDW now for someone like me.

They better start at 730 and finish at 12 if I go. If not, it's totally useless.

I agree.



And if you're traveling over the Cross Bronx Expressway, you'll probably make to the track in time for the opener at Los Alamitos.

And with their current set up, if this was say, 15-20 years ago before the internet craze, how would you even know they would cancel the racing on a day like this while you're taking the long drive to get there?

[thespaah]

I'm unfamiliar with both Meadowlands or Monmouth tracks.

Which is the harness track?

Which track are they racing at since it's Monmouth Meet @ Meadowlands?

Is it because they are adjacent?

If the racing is at the harness track, why would they have a turf course since I thought harness was only run on dirt?

Thanks.
Meadowlands used ot have its own Thoroughbred meet. For the first 10 years, it was 100 days. The Meet started on Labor day, ran 6 days per week and ended in mid December. Over the years, the track had many very good graded stakes.
The opening night Stake was the Pegasus Stakes for 3yo at 9f....
There were two 11f turf events the Rutgers and the Queen Charlotte. Each became grade 2's one for 3 and up one for 3 and up f&M.....There were very good graded 2 yo stakes as well. The Gardenia for fillies at 8.5 F and the Young America for Colts. Same distance. Over the years other events were added. One such race was the Ballantyne Scotch Classic at 1 mile and 3/8ths....Always a large field. I got to see John Henry win that one. I saw Seattle Slew get beat by Dr Patches.....Meadowlands had a top notch Thoroughbred meet.
Now, after the harness meet ended, the track crew would add a base, cushion and top loam/sand for the thoroughbreds. Most seasons, the surface held up very well....
The turf course was built as part of the original plan except they decided to eliminate the infield chute( think of the one at Mth and Aqu)
The meadowlands was built as an all purpose racing facility for both breeds.

[thespaah]

And if you're traveling over the Cross Bronx Expressway, you'll probably make to the track in time for the opener at Los Alamitos.

And with their current set up, if this was say, 15-20 years ago before the internet craze, how would you even know they would cancel the racing on a day like this while you're taking the long drive to get there?
He's better off paying $200 to get there by helicopter.

[Redboard]

The jocks are saying the same thing the turf is too soft. I'm scratching tomorrow night not worth a horse getting injured.

They cancelled the night's entire card. Wiser heads prevailed.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Looking at night 1 card I was baffled(rail settings?). Was timid and got one on day 2. Exacta obvious was $83. If the east coast is dealing with what we are here in Cincinnati=swirling and continuous storm I get it. Weather has wrecked the week.

[onefast99]

Meadowlands used ot have its own Thoroughbred meet. For the first 10 years, it was 100 days. The Meet started on Labor day, ran 6 days per week and ended in mid December. Over the years, the track had many very good graded stakes.
The opening night Stake was the Pegasus Stakes for 3yo at 9f....
There were two 11f turf events the Rutgers and the Queen Charlotte. Each became grade 2's one for 3 and up one for 3 and up f&M.....There were very good graded 2 yo stakes as well. The Gardenia for fillies at 8.5 F and the Young America for Colts. Same distance. Over the years other events were added. One such race was the Ballantyne Scotch Classic at 1 mile and 3/8ths....Always a large field. I got to see John Henry win that one. I saw Seattle Slew get beat by Dr Patches.....Meadowlands had a top notch Thoroughbred meet.
Now, after the harness meet ended, the track crew would add a base, cushion and top loam/sand for the thoroughbreds. Most seasons, the surface held up very well....
The turf course was built as part of the original plan except they decided to eliminate the infield chute( think of the one at Mth and Aqu)
The meadowlands was built as an all purpose racing facility for both breeds.You are partially correct here except for the way the track was prepped for the t-breds. Once Gural got into the picture(2012) new grandstand opened in November 2013 there was a lot of posturing on both sides, Gural removed the rail as he deemed it wasn't necessary for the harness horses. Drazin looked to have a t-bred all surface meet at the Big M but was met with a lot of BS by Gural. It seemed the cost was a huge factor as Gural stated that it would be about $750,000 to lay down and remove the needed base over the harness course and that just about sealed a no way there is going to be dirt racing for the t-breds. Add to the equation that the last two years of main track racing at the Big M was interrupted due to the track conditions with heavy October rains(erosion)and you have turf only. It is evident these two don't want to work together but I do give Gural a thumbs up for the new grandstand and the NJSEA a thumbs down for not taking down the old grandstand. Lastly we all miss the Big M days where over 18000 people jammed the old grandstand and t-bred racing was at its best, the top NYRA jocks at Belmont by day and at the Big M at night!

[upthecreek]

Back in around 1985-87 somewhere there I was just still a youngster and remember they started simulcasting races I used to go to AC to watch and wager im not even sure if it was really legal yet

[onefast99]

Back in around 1985-87 somewhere there I was just still a youngster and remember they started simulcasting races I used to go to AC to watch and wager im not even sure if it was really legal yetAs part of the gambling bill in NJ casinos were given the option to open a horse book, many did, but only a few remain today.

[upthecreek]

As part of the gambling bill in NJ casinos were given the option to open a horse book, many did, but only a few remain today.
I meant the old AC racetrack

[upthecreek]

I meant the old AC racetrack
If my memory isn't failing me,it was a sort of improvised setup with a couple big screen TVs and a couple tellers on the 2nd floor

[alhattab]

But with only six races carded each night, by time you head out there from NYC after work, eat dinner and take in a beer or two, there's only time left for a race or two.

Too damn bad they don't card more races for Fridays and Saturdays like in the past when the live races would run up to 11 PM; even later like on the big nights when they used to card the Pegasus.

Agree and with a cancellation or two maybe they will

[onefast99]

I meant the old AC racetrackWhy would you think it wasn't legal?

[onefast99]

Agree and with a cancellation or two maybe they willIt seems they are happy with the 6 race card. I have questioned this as well and was told it is what it is. The marketing at MP is locked into the 1980's and will never get out of that era with the current regime running the show. Gural took the next step he has a great facility and has tried many things at the first floor bar to bring a younger crowd in. MP still does the lunch truck and food festivals but they are in dire need of a face change.

[upthecreek]

Why would you think it wasn't legal?
If I remember there was some issue with them doing it It was the first in the state and I don't believe there was any kind of simulcast agreement yet,but of course I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong

[DeanT]

tracks are looking for immediate impact from takeout reductions.

Sad but true.

Fascinates me to no end that they can raise takeout for 100 years, and think that one reduction (to about 300% higher than takeout was in 1910) at one venue of 70 will somehow result in money falling from shedrows.

I don't ever expect racing to think long term. They rarely disappoint.

[thespaah]

You are partially correct here except for the way the track was prepped for the t-breds. Once Gural got into the picture(2012) new grandstand opened in November 2013 there was a lot of posturing on both sides, Gural removed the rail as he deemed it wasn't necessary for the harness horses. Drazin looked to have a t-bred all surface meet at the Big M but was met with a lot of BS by Gural. It seemed the cost was a huge factor as Gural stated that it would be about $750,000 to lay down and remove the needed base over the harness course and that just about sealed a no way there is going to be dirt racing for the t-breds. Add to the equation that the last two years of main track racing at the Big M was interrupted due to the track conditions with heavy October rains(erosion)and you have turf only. It is evident these two don't want to work together but I do give Gural a thumbs up for the new grandstand and the NJSEA a thumbs down for not taking down the old grandstand. Lastly we all miss the Big M days where over 18000 people jammed the old grandstand and t-bred racing was at its best, the top NYRA jocks at Belmont by day and at the Big M at night!
Yes. All of which is correct. The OP asked which was the harness track and appeared to be asking if the Meadowlands had a regular thoroughbred meet at all..
I offered a bit of history of the track....
And yes, I was a part of those larger crowds the first 10 or so years.....It continued on into the 90's, but by the mid 90's the meet was cut back in days , then reduced down to 4 days per week, Weds thru Sat....
Eventually, the fall dates were transferred to Monmouth.

[onefast99]

Agree and with a cancellation or two maybe they willThe 6 race card is the max with the purse money appropriated for each card.

[the little guy]

Sad but true.

Fascinates me to no end that they can raise takeout for 100 years, and think that one reduction (to about 300% higher than takeout was in 1910) at one venue of 70 will somehow result in money falling from shedrows.

I don't ever expect racing to think long term. They rarely disappoint.

So someone on a message board pulls something out of their ass, which has no basis in fact other than them saying it, and you are ready to run with it as though it is fact? Really?

Too many suppositions become fact, somehow, for me.

[ronsmac]

So someone on a message board pulls something out of their ass, which has no basis in fact other than them saying it, and you are ready to run with it as though it is fact? Really?

Too many suppositions become fact, somehow, for me.Are you blind or just dumb? Canterbury expected an unrealistic bump in handle. Go back and read their own press release

[the little guy]

Are you blind or just dumb? Canterbury expected an unrealistic bump in handle. Go back and read their own press release

It's witty retorts like this that separate the wheat from the chaff.

[ronsmac]

It's witty retorts like this that separate the wheat from the chaff.
Look in the mirror Little Man.

[DeanT]

So someone on a message board pulls something out of their ass, which has no basis in fact other than them saying it, and you are ready to run with it as though it is fact? Really?

Too many suppositions become fact, somehow, for me.

The evidence of tracks asking/hoping for immediate bumps after a rake reduction are documented. Ron knows his stuff, is a seasoned player and industry watcher whose opinion I respect, so I responded to his opinion, with appropriate deference.

[the little guy]

Ron knows his stuff, is a seasoned player and industry watcher whose opinion I respect, so I responded to his opinion, with appropriate deference.

About Jennifer Aniston vs Angelina Jolie....or racing too?

[ronsmac]

About Jennifer Aniston vs Angelina Jolie....or racing too?Thanks for pointing that out. I am an expert when it comes to beautiful women. I'm sure that's something you know very little about.

[the little guy]

Thanks for pointing that out. I am an expert when it comes to beautiful women. I'm sure that's something you know very little about.

Forgetting how pathetic it is for someone to declare themselves some sort of internet stud....it's the low quality of what people seem to consider humor that saddens me the most.

[HorsemenHeist]

Forgetting how pathetic it is for someone to declare themselves some sort of internet stud....it's the low quality of what people seem to consider humor that saddens me the most.

I agree, pathetic... our internet studs/tough guys somehow usually all look the same too lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/780591620651520000/T15dOKUf_400x400.jpg

[ronsmac]

Forgetting how pathetic it is for someone to declare themselves some sort of internet stud....it's the low quality of what people seem to consider humor that saddens me the most.It saddens me when someone makes an incorrect statement, is corrected. Then won't apologize and admit his mistake. Especially one who jumps on anyone every chance he gets unless it's praising Nyra of course. The next poster is correct. I do feel like a bully picking on a wimp and I don't feel good about it. Only in the PC 21st century would a guy like you feel so embolden to attack but get so sensitive when called out. I'm done with this back and forth. Go cry to Pace and have me banned. That way you can spew your BS consequence free.

[ronsmac]

I agree, pathetic... our internet studs/tough guys somehow usually all look the same too lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/780591620651520000/T15dOKUf_400x400.jpgCute pic. I've met 4 PA members and they know I don't hide behind a computer. That's a good shot you took at me though and I mean that. You my friend just had a drop the mic moment.

[the little guy]

It saddens me when someone makes an incorrect statement, is corrected. Then won't apologize and admit his mistake. Especially one who jumps on anyone every chance he gets unless it's praising Nyra of course. The next poster is correct. I do feel like a bully picking on a wimp and I don't feel good about it. Only in the PC 21st century would a guy like you feel so embolden to attack but get so sensitive when called out. I'm done with this back and forth. Go cry to Pace and have me banned. That way you can spew your BS consequence free.

I won't rip this apart, but honestly, you should take it easy. This is very silly stuff. I'm clearly not the one who was sensitive to being questioned.

[PaceAdvantage]

It saddens me when someone makes an incorrect statement, is corrected. Then won't apologize and admit his mistake. Especially one who jumps on anyone every chance he gets unless it's praising Nyra of course. The next poster is correct. I do feel like a bully picking on a wimp and I don't feel good about it. Only in the PC 21st century would a guy like you feel so embolden to attack but get so sensitive when called out. I'm done with this back and forth. Go cry to Pace and have me banned. That way you can spew your BS consequence free.Pretty sure it was you who got all sensitive when called out. The name calling really started to fly from your end. We can review the tape for proof, but why bother, it's obvious.

Signed,

PA, the NYRA apologist and the one with a man crush on TLG (getting this all out of the way as a public service to those who already have their replies ready to send to me...just saved you folks a bunch of time).

[thaskalos]

Thanks for pointing that out. I am an expert when it comes to beautiful women.

IMO...such declarations should be accompanied by substantiating photographical proof.

[thespaah]

It saddens me when someone makes an incorrect statement, is corrected. Then won't apologize and admit his mistake. Especially one who jumps on anyone every chance he gets unless it's praising Nyra of course. The next poster is correct. I do feel like a bully picking on a wimp and I don't feel good about it. Only in the PC 21st century would a guy like you feel so embolden to attack but get so sensitive when called out. I'm done with this back and forth. Go cry to Pace and have me banned. That way you can spew your BS consequence free.
I'm curious..This was a pretty good thread. So why did you find it necessary to grab a mortar fork and toss stall muck all over it?
Look back on point here, I think take out reductions are a good idea.
Why not? Forget the track managements and their expectations, no matter what those may be.
My point is this....If a merchant makes it less expensive for me to buy his product and the quality of said product remains the same, I will be favorable to purchasing more of that product...

[ronsmac]

I'm curious..This was a pretty good thread. So why did you find it necessary to grab a mortar fork and toss stall muck all over it?
Look back on point here, I think take out reductions are a good idea.
Why not? Forget the track managements and their expectations, no matter what those may be.
My point is this....If a merchant makes it less expensive for me to buy his product and the quality of said product remains the same, I will be favorable to purchasing more of that product...Takeout reductions are good thing as far as I'm concerned. Track mgmts opinions are very important because they sometimes have the power to enact reductions if the horseman and sometimes the particular states allow them.

[ronsmac]

I'm curious..This was a pretty good thread. So why did you find it necessary to grab a mortar fork and toss stall muck all over it?
Look back on point here, I think take out reductions are a good idea.
Why not? Forget the track managements and their expectations, no matter what those may be.
My point is this....If a merchant makes it less expensive for me to buy his product and the quality of said product remains the same, I will be favorable to purchasing more of that product...My home state tried a short term massive reduction some years ago. Unfortunately the results weren't what they were looking for.

[ronsmac]

IMO...such declarations should be accompanied by substantiating photographical proof.Touche. I take the L.

[ultracapper]

I'm curious..This was a pretty good thread. So why did you find it necessary to grab a mortar fork and toss stall muck all over it?
Look back on point here, I think take out reductions are a good idea.
Why not? Forget the track managements and their expectations, no matter what those may be.
My point is this....If a merchant makes it less expensive for me to buy his product and the quality of said product remains the same, I will be favorable to purchasing more of that product...

For it to work for the industry, we have to find more people like you, me and the rest on here, that actually like the product. You could reduce take out to 2% and it won't do anything until the product is made appealing to a new generation of customers.

[DeanT]

As they did for Kentucky Downs' cards, John Doyle's group are offering free analysis and selections for the Meadowlands-MTH cards this meet on the HANA blog, if anyone is interested.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2016/10/optixeq-handicapper-helper-for_6.html

[affirmedny]

$15 for GW Bridge and $16 (back and forth) for the Triboro/Whitestone/Throgs Neck.

$31 to go to the MDW now for someone like me.

They better start at 730 and finish at 12 if I go. If not, it's totally useless.

I agree.

Entire card will be over @9:30 tonight. I live 15 mins away and wouldn't bother going over there for that......

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I used to live close but never bothered driving over for six races, ever. When they ran a full card with dirt and turf i was there all the time

[Track Collector]

Pretty sure it was you who got all sensitive when called out. The name calling really started to fly from your end. We can review the tape for proof, but why bother, it's obvious.

Signed,

PA, the NYRA apologist and the one with a man crush on TLG (getting this all out of the way as a public service to those who already have their replies ready to send to me...just saved you folks a bunch of time).

Mike,

I don't see you as an NYRA apologist, but from my perspective, you clearly do come across with a consistent (favorable) bias when it comes to TLG.

I don't know what motivates him or makes him tick, but it seems like just about anytime he joins a conversation his response is terse or escalates the tone in a personal and negative way, and yet like in this thread, you have jumped to his defense and chastised the other poster while implying that TLG is blame-free. This is unfortunate, as TLG has the intelligence and knowledge to add a lot to and promote the discussion if he presented more information to support his position rather than simply tell us the other person is wrong and expect the rest of us to obviously know why he is correct. His postings tend to exhibit troll-like behavior rather than one seeking respectful dialog.

My comments don't apply to those times when posters have started negative threads about TLG because they were jealous of his handicapping abilities and/or his on-air fame, but to cases such as this.

You may disagree with my assessment, but that just means we see things differently.

[onefast99]

Entire card will be over @9:30 tonight. I live 15 mins away and wouldn't bother going over there for that......The 6 race card is based on the purse monies available. If they dilute the purses by adding say 2 or 3 more races it wouldn't pay for many to run there. One of the reasons is the cost from MP to the Meadowlands to ship your horse is $250.00 how many with NJ breds who aren't competitive can afford to do this and in most races finishing out of the money means receiving just enough purse money to cover the jocks ride. The system is broken, the marketing is antiquated and those that run it are incapable of fixing the problems they inherited.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

The 6 race card is based on the purse monies available. If they dilute the purses by adding say 2 or 3 more races it wouldn't pay for many to run there. One of the reasons is the cost from MP to the Meadowlands to ship your horse is $250.00 how many with NJ breds who aren't competitive can afford to do this and in most races finishing out of the money means receiving just enough purse money to cover the jocks ride. The system is broken, the marketing is antiquated and those that run it are incapable of fixing the problems they inherited.

I am not sure how many race dates are mandated in NJ, so maybe the reason for them stretching it over the days they run is the reason for the short cards. Perhaps consolidate a few days and run 9 and 9 on friday and saturday instead of thursday? Maybe add a couple from the days canceled? Beats me, but I am looking at the numbers on a daily basis to see if they are in an overpayment situation to begin with.

[onefast99]

I am not sure how many race dates are mandated in NJ, so maybe the reason for them stretching it over the days they run is the reason for the short cards. Perhaps consolidate a few days and run 9 and 9 on friday and saturday instead of thursday? Maybe add a couple from the days canceled? Beats me, but I am looking at the numbers on a daily basis to see if they are in an overpayment situation to begin with.They added 4k to the 12500 fillies and mares going long on Monday afternoon. Purse is now $21000.

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike,

I don't see you as an NYRA apologist, but from my perspective, you clearly do come across with a consistent (favorable) bias when it comes to TLG.

I don't know what motivates him or makes him tick, but it seems like just about anytime he joins a conversation his response is terse or escalates the tone in a personal and negative way, and yet like in this thread, you have jumped to his defense and chastised the other poster while implying that TLG is blame-free. This is unfortunate, as TLG has the intelligence and knowledge to add a lot to and promote the discussion if he presented more information to support his position rather than simply tell us the other person is wrong and expect the rest of us to obviously know why he is correct. His postings tend to exhibit troll-like behavior rather than one seeking respectful dialog.

My comments don't apply to those times when posters have started negative threads about TLG because they were jealous of his handicapping abilities and/or his on-air fame, but to cases such as this.

You may disagree with my assessment, but that just means we see things differently.I'm not surprised by TLG's posting style. Why should he waste time penning comprehensive posts/replies when all he will get in return, inevitably, is the usual crap posted by the anti-TLG, anti-NYRA brigade (not saying you are part of this)?

When you kick a dog enough times, he won't come running back to you, you know?

I'm actually surprised TLG posts at all...I figured the maniacs would have run him out of town by now. But I do my best to make sure he can still post here if he wants to, and not have to endure a crap storm after each and every post...but even I can't stop that most of the time.

I mean, even when he does post something that would fall under your approval (ie. not a drive-by or potshot like you framed it), inevitably somebody will do something to create a controversy.

He still adds something with each and every contribution, in my opinion...you just have to know how to interpret it often times...it's not all that hard.

[no breathalyzer]

I'm not surprised by TLG's posting style. Why should he waste time penning comprehensive posts/replies when all he will get in return, inevitably, is the usual crap posted by the anti-TLG, anti-NYRA brigade (not saying you are part of this)?

When you kick a dog enough times, he won't come running back to you, you know?

I'm actually surprised TLG posts at all...I figured the maniacs would have run him out of town by now. But I do my best to make sure he can still post here if he wants to, and not have to endure a crap storm after each and every post...but even I can't stop that most of the time.

I mean, even when he does post something that would fall under your approval (ie. not a drive-by or potshot like you framed it), inevitably somebody will do something to create a controversy.

He still adds something with each and every contribution, in my opinion...you just have to know how to interpret it often times...it's not all that hard.


Cmon.. i don't have a degree in sociology but love or hate TLG you know it would be extremely hard for him to stay away from these boards for any extended period of time

[PaceAdvantage]

Cmon.. i don't have a degree in sociology but love or hate TLG you know it would be extremely hard for him to stay away from these boards for any extended period of timeNot really. He's already stayed away for quite a long period of time...

[HuggingTheRail]

He still adds something with each and every contribution, in my opinion...you just have to know how to interpret it often times...it's not all that hard.

I agree that with the bolded part. I really struggle with TLG. I have added and removed him from my ignore list at least a dozen times, and I think the only other person who has ever made the list was zilly....

I have chosen to unblock him for awhile now. I echo Track Collectors opinion of TLG's posting style - it almost always comes across as trite at best, and often self serving/pompous. I've chosen to accept that is who he is, I will likely never meet him, but I will sift through the negative to find the helpful info that he can post.

[upthecreek]

"Napoleon complex" is a term describing a theorized condition occurring in people of short stature. It is characterized by overly-aggressive or domineering social behavior, and carries the implication that such behaviour is compensatory for the subject's stature.

[onefast99]

I agree that with the bolded part. I really struggle with TLG. I have added and removed him from my ignore list at least a dozen times, and I think the only other person who has ever made the list was zilly....

I have chosen to unblock him for awhile now. I echo Track Collectors opinion of TLG's posting style - it almost always comes across as trite at best, and often self serving/pompous. I've chosen to accept that is who he is, I will likely never meet him, but I will sift through the negative to find the helpful info that he can post.TLG posts some relevant information and also has fun with those who are very thin skinned, that's probably the reason many stay away from answering his posts or in some cases fuel his fire. All is good!

[onefast99]

Back to the Big M....has anyone noticed the turf course is really beaten up this year. I know we are in a drought but I have been playing some of the horses who do well on a firm or mostly balding turf course. I'm sure there are sprinklers somewhere but it doesn't look like the water has been turned on since the meet began!

[AskinHaskin]

Meanwhile, the Friday night handle was down 28% from a year ago.


Maybe they love the takeout reduction but hate the beaten-up turf course to a greater extent. Or maybe...

[no breathalyzer]

gonna be a fat ass pick 5 carryover for Monday... guess no racing tomorrow :ThmbDown:

[thespaah]

Not really. He's already stayed away for quite a long period of time...
I am glad he and other people in this business post here.
Having them here gives this site an extra boost of importance.
I would challenge anyone to show me any other sports oriented message board type site where announcers, analysts and owners post.
My guess the number is ZERO.....
Pace Advantage is a great place.
Ok, upon seeing this, the more gruff and cynical will spew their contentious replies. That's fine.

[thespaah]

I agree that with the bolded part. I really struggle with TLG. I have added and removed him from my ignore list at least a dozen times, and I think the only other person who has ever made the list was zilly....

I have chosen to unblock him for awhile now. I echo Track Collectors opinion of TLG's posting style - it almost always comes across as trite at best, and often self serving/pompous. I've chosen to accept that is who he is, I will likely never meet him, but I will sift through the negative to find the helpful info that he can post.
I met TLG this past August. He was busy with work, but not too busy to stop where we had a short but pleasant chat....

[thespaah]

Meanwhile, the Friday night handle was down 28% from a year ago.


Maybe they love the takeout reduction but hate the beaten-up turf course to a greater extent. Or maybe...
The weather in the northeast has been at best wacky.
Those that reside in the region can attest.
This summer was unusually hot and dry. Not a very good agri-environment for cool season turf.

[PaceAdvantage]

"Napoleon complex" is a term describing a theorized condition occurring in people of short stature. It is characterized by overly-aggressive or domineering social behavior, and carries the implication that such behaviour is compensatory for the subject's stature.Misguided and dickish of you...

[upthecreek]

Misguided and dickish of you...
That's your opinion Follow him on Twitter and see how he treats people About a week or so ago he beat up on Eric Cancel,took a lot of heat and had to issue a half ass apology Our resident race caller had something to say about it, which was deserved I don't like the guy, don't think he's as good as you think, and that's why he's on my ignore list
Last breath I'm going to waste on this subject

[the little guy]

That's your opinion Follow him on Twitter and see how he treats people About a week or so ago he beat up on Eric Cancel,took a lot of heat and had to issue a half ass apology Our resident race caller had something to say about it, which was deserved I don't like the guy, don't think he's as good as you think, and that's why he's on my ignore list
Last breath I'm going to waste on this subject


That's an interesting take. A complete lie...but an interesting take nonetheless. I had to issue a half assed apology? Does that mean I had to issue an apology and gave a half-assed one....or I had to issue an apology that was half-assed? Just curious...since apparently, according to an expert like you, I HAD to issue some sort of apology. I guess you get that information from the same misguided trolls, like our "resident race caller," that lie about me on the internet all the time...like you. God knows, I'm really not that interesting.

I have another question...am I on ignore because you don't like me or because I'm not as good as PA thinks? Your post was very confusing. It must be my tiny brain due to my diminutive size.

I have the worst trolls.

[EMD4ME]

How bout that $50,000 payout in the pick 5 today?!

[Thomas Roulston]

Would they run the races on the dirt if it rains?

So far it hasn't rained at this meet, has it?

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Yes they have had to cancel a couple so far and have done in the past couple years.

They used to run a card with turf and dirt but that required a surface switch since the main track is used 90 percent of the time for harness. They havent done that in a while and they have the Breeders Crown there this year. With no surface switch, 0% chance running on the main

[PaceAdvantage]

That's an interesting take. A complete lie...but an interesting take nonetheless. I had to issue a half assed apology? Does that mean I had to issue an apology and gave a half-assed one....or I had to issue an apology that was half-assed? Just curious...since apparently, according to an expert like you, I HAD to issue some sort of apology. I guess you get that information from the same misguided trolls, like our "resident race caller," that lie about me on the internet all the time...like you. God knows, I'm really not that interesting.

I have another question...am I on ignore because you don't like me or because I'm not as good as PA thinks? Your post was very confusing. It must be my tiny brain due to my diminutive size.

I have the worst trolls.Since creek has you on ignore, let me do my civic duty and quote your reply.

[v j stauffer]

That's an interesting take. A complete lie...but an interesting take nonetheless. I had to issue a half assed apology? Does that mean I had to issue an apology and gave a half-assed one....or I had to issue an apology that was half-assed? Just curious...since apparently, according to an expert like you, I HAD to issue some sort of apology. I guess you get that information from the same misguided trolls, like our "resident race caller," that lie about me on the internet all the time...like you. God knows, I'm really not that interesting.

I have another question...am I on ignore because you don't like me or because I'm not as good as PA thinks? Your post was very confusing. It must be my tiny brain due to my diminutive size.

I have the worst trolls.

We have many race callers on this forum. All who try to contribute unconditionally. Please share any post by any of us that has been proven to be a lie.

The religious forums are better suited for supposedly persecuted martyr's. Might want to consider finding solace on one of those.

[Garyinseattle]

We have many race callers on this forum. All who try to contribute unconditionally. Please share any post by any of us that has been proven to be a lie.

The religious forums are better suited for supposedly persecuted martyr's. Might want to consider finding solace on one of those.


Hey Vic I guess you missed my post. Is it really smart with you starting over again in the biz to be publicly taking shots at your former boss who is a top tier jockey ? Obviously it stings that he left you and went on to become a huge success. Care to elaborate:


Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.

[v j stauffer]

Hey Vic I guess you missed my post. Is it really smart with you starting over again in the biz to be publicly taking shots at your former boss who is a top tier jockey ? Obviously it stings that he left you and went on to become a huge success. Care to elaborate:


Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.

I'm not starting anything over. I've been in this business for 40 years and will be part of it until god makes me a late scratch.

I don't consider what I wrote as taking a shot at Joel. He's an immense talent. An elite athlete who has had a fantastic career so far.

Nobody is perfect. I've called 44,000 races and not one was perfect. I'm always open to advice as to how I can be better.

You can be better by not trolling.

Best of luck.

[v j stauffer]

Hey Vic I guess you missed my post. Is it really smart with you starting over again in the biz to be publicly taking shots at your former boss who is a top tier jockey ? Obviously it stings that he left you and went on to become a huge success. Care to elaborate:


Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.

And BTW is case you didn't check he was pretty successful during the 28 months we worked together.

[v j stauffer]

Hey Vic I guess you missed my post. Is it really smart with you starting over again in the biz to be publicly taking shots at your former boss who is a top tier jockey ? Obviously it stings that he left you and went on to become a huge success. Care to elaborate:


Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.

This post seems disgustingly DaHossian.

Anyone else get that Vibe?

[Garyinseattle]

I'm not starting anything over. I've been in this business for 40 years and will be part of it until god makes me a late scratch.

I don't consider what I wrote as taking a shot at Joel. He's an immense talent. An elite athlete who has had a fantastic career so far.

Nobody is perfect. I've called 44,000 races and not one was perfect. I'm always open to advice as to how I can be better.

You can be better by not trolling.

Best of luck.

Please Vic....You took a cheap shot at Rosario, I called you out on it. Not trolling at all. I guess nobody is allowed to comment on your posts unless it's a compliment.

Good luck at OP, hopefully your ridiculous behavior on chat boards stops once you are back out in the public eye.

[Garyinseattle]

And BTW is case you didn't check he was pretty successful during the 28 months we worked together.

Yes he was doing well, but his career exploded after he fired you.

[Garyinseattle]

This post seems disgustingly DaHossian.

Anyone else get that Vibe?

I am not Dahoss or anyone else who has posted here before. I did post on Byk's board in the past, but not here. Have the mod check my IP address.


I guess whenever someone criticizes you or calls you out on your behavior it must be one guy with a ton of aliases. I guess I see your point since you have never acted like an idiot on a chat board.

[rsetup]

I find Vic's criticism of Rosario to be accurate. The ride on Full Mast, for example, was embarrassingly bad. Rosario can be very, very good. Or he can be completely out of it.

[v j stauffer]

I am not Dahoss or anyone else who has posted here before. I did post on Byk's board in the past, but not here. Have the mod check my IP address.


I guess whenever someone criticizes you or calls you out on your behavior it must be one guy with a ton of aliases. I guess I see your point since you have never acted like an idiot on a chat board.

Right.

And it's no act on my part. :)

Sludge inevitably seeps to the surface.

So, you're back. I didn't care when you were here. I didn't care when you left and I don't care now that you're back again.

You make Mr. Irrelevant look like a number 1 overall draft choice.

Sadly it's probably better for PA when you're allowed to spew your drivel.

Whatever, have at it.

What a pathetic joke.

[Garyinseattle]

Right.

And it's no act on my part. :)

Sludge inevitably seeps to the surface.

So, you're back. I didn't care when you were here. I didn't care when you left and I don't care now that you're back again.

You make Mr. Irrelevant look like a number 1 overall draft choice.

Sadly it's probably better for PA when you're allowed to spew your drivel.

Whatever, have at it.

What a pathetic joke.


Vic

I am not Dahoss. I posted as Stone Gossard on Byk's board. Go back and read some of the stuff you posted to me yrs ago. I won't re-hash some of the stuff you said to me, to be honest I could have gotten your ass fired from HP with some of the stuff you said. But I had no interest in going that route.

You really need to know when to STFU in public and not act like an imbecile.

[v j stauffer]

Vic

I am not Dahoss. I posted as Stone Gossard on Byk's board. Go back and read some of the stuff you posted to me yrs ago. I won't re-hash some of the stuff you said to me, to be honest I could have gotten your ass fired from HP with some of the stuff you said. But I had no interest in going that route.

You really need to know when to STFU in public and not act like an imbecile.

Many of the things I posted back in the day were over the top given my position in the industry.

I thought about that and made what I thought were the proper adjustments.

My posts over the past several years, while cutting edge, have taken an entirely different tenor.

" You could have gotten my ass fired from HP " is the kind of statement that only one person ever has made. Only one. ONE.

YOU ARE DAHOSS

I've sent PA a PM stating that if you are allowed to continue to disrupt this forum for not only me but hundreds of wonderful racing fans.

I will cease forever to contribute to this forum. I further stated I will ask my fellow race callers to join me in looking elsewhere to enjoy everything our great sport has to offer.

Ask anyone, even the people who don't like me even a little bit. Has this forum been better since you left? I think the answer is 100% yes.

No matter what name or names you use. Your hate shines through like a bright beacon.

It's come to this. It's either you or me. I hope PA chooses to allow me to stay. I would miss interacting with everybody else.

[the little guy]

Many of the things I posted back in the day were over the top given my position in the industry.

I thought about that and made what I thought were the proper adjustments.

My posts over the past several years, while cutting edge, have taken an entirely different tenor.

" You could have gotten my ass fired from HP " is the kind of statement that only one person ever has made. Only one. ONE.

YOU ARE DAHOSS

I've sent PA a PM stating that if you are allowed to continue to disrupt this forum for not only me but hundreds of wonderful racing fans.

I will cease forever to contribute to this forum. I further stated I will ask my fellow race callers to join me in looking elsewhere to enjoy everything our great sport has to offer.

Ask anyone, even the people who don't like me even a little bit. Has this forum been better since you left? I think the answer is 100% yes.

No matter what name or names you use. Your hate shines through like a bright beacon.

It's come to this. It's either you or me. I hope PA chooses to allow me to stay. I would miss interacting with everybody else.


This is truly precious. Maybe the funniest post I have ever seen.

I award it the coveted 10 rattles.

[ReplayRandall]

This is truly precious. Maybe the funniest post I have ever seen.

I award it the coveted 10 rattles.

"Precious"?? Now where have I heard someone use that term before.....Hmmm, you must be buddies with Trifecta Mike....Same nonsense, same smugness.

[PaceAdvantage]

Many of the things I posted back in the day were over the top given my position in the industry.

I thought about that and made what I thought were the proper adjustments.

My posts over the past several years, while cutting edge, have taken an entirely different tenor.

" You could have gotten my ass fired from HP " is the kind of statement that only one person ever has made. Only one. ONE.

YOU ARE DAHOSS

I've sent PA a PM stating that if you are allowed to continue to disrupt this forum for not only me but hundreds of wonderful racing fans.

I will cease forever to contribute to this forum. I further stated I will ask my fellow race callers to join me in looking elsewhere to enjoy everything our great sport has to offer.

Ask anyone, even the people who don't like me even a little bit. Has this forum been better since you left? I think the answer is 100% yes.

No matter what name or names you use. Your hate shines through like a bright beacon.

It's come to this. It's either you or me. I hope PA chooses to allow me to stay. I would miss interacting with everybody else.Except he's not dahoss. I never banned dahoss either...he left on his own recently...

[PaceAdvantage]

"Precious"?? Now where have I heard someone use that term before.....Hmmm, you must be buddies with Trifecta Mike....Same nonsense, same smugness.So Vic had nothing bad to say about Rosario? He shouldn't have been called out on that by Gary?

OK...whatever...your dislike for certain people is clouding your judgement.

[ReplayRandall]

So Vic had nothing bad to say about Rosario? He shouldn't have been called out on that by Gary?

OK...whatever...your dislike for certain people is clouding your judgement.

Judgement about what??

[PaceAdvantage]

Judgement about what??How the hell should I know?

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh yeah, I know...criticizing TLG's use of the word precious as smug.

It actually fits perfectly. Vic threatening to abandon ship and close down this site as he takes all his announcers with him...that IS precious.

It's tiresome watching people jump into a thread simply because they don't like the other person, not because they actually have something interesting to write...if someone threatens to leave and then leaves, so be it. It might actually improve things around here and eliminate some of this revenge posting that often has little or no merit other than to soothe bruised egos, which around this place, appear to be MASSIVE.

[ReplayRandall]

It's tiresome watching people jump into a thread simply because they don't like the other person, not because they actually have something interesting to write...

Isn't that what TLG just did to Vic? He just jumped into the thread because he doesn't like Vic, and you say it's me who has clouded judgement?....The rest of your post, I agree with, Vic shouldn't threaten such things, no matter the provocation.

[PaceAdvantage]

Isn't that what TLG just did to Vic? He just jumped into the thread because he doesn't like Vic, and you say it's me who has clouded judgement?....The rest of your post, I agree with, Vic shouldn't threaten such things, no matter the provocation.Vic's post begged commentary. I'm talking about other innocuous postings where people just jump in to say something negative because they dislike the public persona who is posting. Happens to Vic. Happens to TLG. And it's tiresome.

As for Vic, he can threaten whatever he'd like. I'm not going to say he shouldn't. I've been waiting for 17+ years for someone to single-handedly take this place down...I'm still waiting... :lol:

[ReplayRandall]

Vic's post begged commentary. I'm talking about other innocuous postings where people just jump in to say something negative because they dislike the public persona who is posting. Happens to Vic. Happens to TLG. And it's tiresome.

As for Vic, he can threaten whatever he'd like. I'm not going to say he shouldn't. I've been waiting for 17+ years for someone to single-handedly take this place down...I'm still waiting... :lol:

You're website is the last of the dinosaurs in a dying sport....If horse racing dies, we ALL die.

[onefast99]

The Monmouth at the Meadowlands meet ends in 1 hour, hopefully this thread will as well.

[Garyinseattle]

Many of the things I posted back in the day were over the top given my position in the industry.

I thought about that and made what I thought were the proper adjustments.

My posts over the past several years, while cutting edge, have taken an entirely different tenor.

" You could have gotten my ass fired from HP " is the kind of statement that only one person ever has made. Only one. ONE.

YOU ARE DAHOSS

I've sent PA a PM stating that if you are allowed to continue to disrupt this forum for not only me but hundreds of wonderful racing fans.

I will cease forever to contribute to this forum. I further stated I will ask my fellow race callers to join me in looking elsewhere to enjoy everything our great sport has to offer.

Ask anyone, even the people who don't like me even a little bit. Has this forum been better since you left? I think the answer is 100% yes.

No matter what name or names you use. Your hate shines through like a bright beacon.

It's come to this. It's either you or me. I hope PA chooses to allow me to stay. I would miss interacting with everybody else.


For those in the cheap seats.....I AM NOT DAHOSS !

Vic, go to DT and search for Stone Gossard. You will see me and you having some discussions. Basically I called you out for pandering to Rosario in some of your calls. I believe the one I really questioned was a Fri night card. You went all apeshit on me after I made a reference to Ed Burgart the Los Al caller. You said he was a friend and would take action against those who mentioned his name. For your sake I won't re-post it. It was pretty bad.

I know of Dahoss from DT. He isn't me. Have the mod from here check my IP address. I'm down in S Florida.


I know it's a shock to you that there could be someone else besides Dahoss who believes you act like a jack ass, but we do exist.

[Garyinseattle]

Oh yeah, I know...criticizing TLG's use of the word precious as smug.

It actually fits perfectly. Vic threatening to abandon ship and close down this site as he takes all his announcers with him...that IS precious.

It's tiresome watching people jump into a thread simply because they don't like the other person, not because they actually have something interesting to write...if someone threatens to leave and then leaves, so be it. It might actually improve things around here and eliminate some of this revenge posting that often has little or no merit other than to soothe bruised egos, which around this place, appear to be MASSIVE.


How many announcers post on here....LOL. From the looks of it IF Vic got the other announcers to abandon ship they could all fit in a small raft no ?


Sorry Vic turned this into something all about him....shocking really......but I asked him a question about calling out Rosario in another thread. Maybe he didn't see it (yeah right). If he has the stones to come on and rip on his former jock he should be a big boy and be able to handle criticism. He is acting like a 60 year old infant.

[Garyinseattle]

So Vic had nothing bad to say about Rosario? He shouldn't have been called out on that by Gary?

OK...whatever...your dislike for certain people is clouding your judgement.


Dude.......it was beyond obvious Stauffer was taking a shot at Rosario. His backtracking now is precious.

[cj]

From the looks of it IF Vic got the other announcers to abandon ship they could all fit in a small raft no ?




Ummm, NO. This isn't a knock because I'm a big guy myself, but no way in hell some of the announcers that post here are fitting in a small raft together. :jump: :jump: :jump:

[whodoyoulike]

Hey Vic I guess you missed my post. Is it really smart with you starting over again in the biz to be publicly taking shots at your former boss who is a top tier jockey ? Obviously it stings that he left you and went on to become a huge success. Care to elaborate:


Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.

Didn't Rosario come to SoCal from NY and then returned to NY?

As I recall, he had a good rep before he arrived in SoCal continued to outperform and then decided to return to NY and still outperforms most jockeys. He's just one of the best all around jockeys at this time. Stauffer's post which you've posted just shows he respects his talent. Hell, he's been competing at two of the toughest jockey colonies in the US and has shown he can compete with the best of the best.

And, now having read a few more posts of yours in this thread, your writing style is very similar to Dahoss. You should try and get over it, whatever it was.

[cj]

And, now having read a few more posts of yours in this thread, your writing style is very similar to Dahoss. You should try and get over it, whatever it was.

The site owner has already said they are not the same person, and I can verify it too. Let it go.

[whodoyoulike]

... egos, which around this place, appear to be MASSIVE.

You have no idea.

[AskinHaskin]

The Monmouth at the Meadowlands meet ends in 1 hour, hopefully this thread will as well.



LOL - the meet jumped the shark about two races into it, and the whole takeout reduction scheme jumped the shark well before that.

[Garyinseattle]

Ummm, NO. This isn't a knock because I'm a big guy myself, but no way in hell some of the announcers that post here are fitting in a small raft together. :jump: :jump: :jump:

Whoa. You are saying these guys guys are too big to fit in a raft ??

I'm definitely getting a Dahossyian Vibe here CJ.

[ultracapper]

Hey Pete, went back to the old DRF days to get your handle. I knew it wasn't the original. Your posts were way too educated and informed.

[Garyinseattle]

Didn't Rosario come to SoCal from NY and then returned to NY?

As I recall, he had a good rep before he arrived in SoCal continued to outperform and then decided to return to NY and still outperforms most jockeys. He's just one of the best all around jockeys at this time. Stauffer's post which you've posted just shows he respects his talent. Hell, he's been competing at two of the toughest jockey colonies in the US and has shown he can compete with the best of the best.

And, now having read a few more posts of yours in this thread, your writing style is very similar to Dahoss. You should try and get over it, whatever it was.


I believe Rosario started in Northern Cal, did great, then came down to So-Cal and continued to do very very well.


You consider this post implies respect??

Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.



Again......I.....am.....not.....Dahoss.

Maybe we need a DNA test.

[EMD4ME]

I believe Rosario started in Northern Cal, did great, then came down to So-Cal and continued to do very very well.


You consider this post implies respect??

Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.



Again......I.....am.....not.....Dahoss.

Maybe we need a DNA test.

I will only speak to Vic's quote....

Nobody wants Joel to do better than I (well, I'm sure his family and others do) but I hope you get my point. I WANT him to do well.

The fact is, Vic is SPOT ON in his assessment of Joel's performance. Not his character, not his work ethic, not his ability, not his ceiling BUT his performance.

He is an enigma. Quickly becoming Can't Desormeaux.

Vic and I have had WW3 here on PA MULTIPLE TIMES, however, he is SPOT ON in his assessment of Joel's performance. It does infer respect and it adds in the truth.

[EMD4ME]

GaryinseattlewhohasneverbeentoEmeralddowns,

Piece of advice. Ignore Whodoyoulike. He is the king of trolls around here.

But then again, you probably already know that ;)

[AskinHaskin]

So, back on topic:


The Meadowlands kissed away roughly 1/3 of their on-track handle revenue this season, as compared to last.

The simo handle was up, but only because this season had 2 more race days to get it there. (and they probably got a smaller share of that simo handle to offset any gains at all there)


Just where is the promised upside to all of this?


The cart keeps pulling the horse into the mud.

[the little guy]

It seems to me that one of the biggest problems is that the vast majority of price sensitive players already get a rebate, so these lower takeouts don't particularly affect them, either positively or negatively. Thus, they don't rate to draw any significant immediate handle gains.

Obviously the reason takeout decreases can work in the long-term is that they return more money to players, which over time will increase churn, and thus increase handle. However, this cannot be seen in the short term, so for anyone looking for immediate results, a takeout decrease will always appear to be a failure.

Just my two cents.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

I agree with Andy here and I believe it has been echoed by others on the board.

Bottom line, it needs time to catch on. You cannot expect a small meet like this or any track ranked in the bottom in terms of handle to try something like this and expect huge gains.

I just hope that they continue this. I know some other tracks have had poorly advertised takeout reductions in their pick 4s (think Evangeline and Indiana Grand), but on the flip side they can also afford to try something like this with the casino purse money rolling in. With NJ not getting any supplements, who knows where it will go.

Prices were right this meet though!

[Garyinseattle]

Hey Pete, went back to the old DRF days to get your handle. I knew it wasn't the original. Your posts were way too educated and informed.


That DRF forumn was pure gold. The wild west of horse chat boards. I wish there was a way to access that place. Some funny times back then.

As far as my handle...it came down this or FFFFastracehorse.


As far as me being more educated and informed than garyinseattle.......don't rush to judgement yet..I've only been here a little while.

[cj]

I believe Rosario started in Northern Cal, did great, then came down to So-Cal and continued to do very very well.


You consider this post implies respect??

Originally Posted by v j stauffer
It's tough for Rosario to consistently stand the test of time with one barn because he makes lot's of mistakes.

He's like a guy who hits 47 bombs but strikes out 200 times while hitting .247.

When it goes perfect there in NOBODY better. But it doesn't go perfect often enough to remain a year round go to guy.



Again......I.....am.....not.....Dahoss.

Maybe we need a DNA test.

I'm not sure how anyone could think calling him the baseball equivalent of Mark Reynolds isn't an insult.

[Garyinseattle]

I will only speak to Vic's quote....

Nobody wants Joel to do better than I (well, I'm sure his family and others do) but I hope you get my point. I WANT him to do well.

The fact is, Vic is SPOT ON in his assessment of Joel's performance. Not his character, not his work ethic, not his ability, not his ceiling BUT his performance.

He is an enigma. Quickly becoming Can't Desormeaux.

Vic and I have had WW3 here on PA MULTIPLE TIMES, however, he is SPOT ON in his assessment of Joel's performance. It does infer respect and it adds in the truth.


Can you and I agree that I am not Dahoss?


Give me that at least....

[cj]

It seems to me that one of the biggest problems is that the vast majority of price sensitive players already get a rebate, so these lower takeouts don't particularly affect them, either positively or negatively. Thus, they don't rate to draw any significant immediate handle gains.

Obviously the reason takeout decreases can work in the long-term is that they return more money to players, which over time will increase churn, and thus increase handle. However, this cannot be seen in the short term, so for anyone looking for immediate results, a takeout decrease will always appear to be a failure.

Just my two cents.

100% correct.

[Garyinseattle]

GaryinseattlewhohasneverbeentoEmeralddowns,

Piece of advice. Ignore Whodoyoulike. He is the king of trolls around here.

But then again, you probably already know that ;)


"GaryinseattlewhohasneverbeentoEmeralddowns"



That was good....nice.....

[cj]

"GaryinseattlewhohasneverbeentoEmeralddowns"



That was good....nice.....

I hear you've been to Longacres and Playfair though.

[EMD4ME]

In my personal situation, I have no time for an additional track. They reduced takeout but their track is a blip on the radar.

As far as rebates. I'd rather have a 10% takeout pick 5 vs. 5% rebates.

The pick 5 that pays 17,000 would pay 18,000 with a 15% vs a 10% takeout.

All depends on how much someone bets and how much they cash on what.

My mind immediately went to their supers. 15% vs 25%. Wow. What a difference. 8500 instead of 7500.

These 2 tracks need to do this long term to get a better idea as to the impact.

Plus the more tracks that do it, the more that benefit from the takeout reduction.

If I ran a track, a 5% takeout reduction would apply.....ON TRACK only.

[Garyinseattle]

I'm not sure how anyone could think calling him the baseball equivalent of Mark Reynolds isn't an insult.


I don't get it man......what he wrote to me is a total shot at Rosario. 100% insult.

Someone saying that a person ONLY succeeds when things are perfectly lined up in their favor.

[Garyinseattle]

I hear you've been to Longacres and Playfair though.



Nah...not me. I think you have me confused with Dahoss.

[kingfin66]

Nah...not me. I think you have me confused with Dahoss.

He was just kidding you. Of course he knows that if you had been to Playfair, you would be Garyinspokane.

[onefast99]

So, back on topic:


The Meadowlands kissed away roughly 1/3 of their on-track handle revenue this season, as compared to last.

The simo handle was up, but only because this season had 2 more race days to get it there. (and they probably got a smaller share of that simo handle to offset any gains at all there)


Just where is the promised upside to all of this?


The cart keeps pulling the horse into the mud.I spent about 5 days at this meet, going from the new grandstand to the paddock in a mini-van each time I wanted to see a horse I either had in or wanted to claim. The post parades were short and it was impossible to see the horses up close and actually see what you wanted to claim. On the other hand there were people in the stands for the night racing as well as in the two restaurants Pinks and Trotters)and the simulcast theatre. But Monday, Tuesday and yesterday the place was a ghost town.

[Dahoss9698]

This thread is so great. Vic sure is obsessed with me.

I'm flattered.

[EMD4ME]

This thread is so great. Vic sure is obsessed with me.

I'm flattered.

Hi Gary ;)

[Dahoss9698]

Hi Gary ;)
I know you're kidding but it's funny people thought it was me. As if I have the time to create multiple names on message boards to troll people.

Only real scumbags do that.

[ReplayRandall]

I know you're kidding but it's funny people thought it was me. As if I have the time to create multiple names on message boards to troll people.

Only real scumbags do that.

You should have Garyinseattle post something, since he now seems to be missing, and now you're here....Gotta make it look legit..:cool:

[EMD4ME]

You should have Garyinseattle post something, since he now seems to be missing, and now you're here....Gotta make it look legit..:cool:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Do I get the ALLEY in the OOP for my minor assist? :lol:

[thaskalos]

I know you're kidding but it's funny people thought it was me. As if I have the time to create multiple names on message boards to troll people.

Only real scumbags do that.

When you say this...do you realize that you are insulting half the people on this board?

[EMD4ME]

When you say this...do you realize that you are insulting half the people on this board?

OMG :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thankfully, I'm on the other half :lol: An original, for now, till I get banned :lol:

[thaskalos]

OMG :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thankfully, I'm on the other half :lol: An original, for now, till I get banned :lol:

Don't worry...as long as you keep winning at the track, you are safe. You are our token winner here.

[EMD4ME]

Don't worry...as long as you keep winning at the track, you are safe. You are our token winner here.

OMG.... :lol: :lol: :blush: :D

[ReplayRandall]

Don't worry...as long as you keep winning at the track, you are safe. You are our subway-tokens winner here.

FTFY...

[Dahoss9698]

Many of the things I posted back in the day were over the top given my position in the industry.

I thought about that and made what I thought were the proper adjustments.

My posts over the past several years, while cutting edge, have taken an entirely different tenor.

" You could have gotten my ass fired from HP " is the kind of statement that only one person ever has made. Only one. ONE.

YOU ARE DAHOSS

I've sent PA a PM stating that if you are allowed to continue to disrupt this forum for not only me but hundreds of wonderful racing fans.

I will cease forever to contribute to this forum. I further stated I will ask my fellow race callers to join me in looking elsewhere to enjoy everything our great sport has to offer.

Ask anyone, even the people who don't like me even a little bit. Has this forum been better since you left? I think the answer is 100% yes.

No matter what name or names you use. Your hate shines through like a bright beacon.

It's come to this. It's either you or me. I hope PA chooses to allow me to stay. I would miss interacting with everybody else.

Wow. Just wow.

How did this work out for you?

I'll forever laugh at the thought of you thinking your posts are cutting edge. I mean laugh out loud kind of laughing.