North Jersey Casino Backers Give up Campaign

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The recently-launched “OUR Turn NJ” campaign that was conceived to drum up support for a measure on the November ballot to allow casino gambling in North Jersey suspended its operations on Thursday following grim public polling and what supporters said was even more dismal internal polling.

The operator of the Meadowlands Racetrack, Jeff Gural and Paul Fireman, a former Reebok chief executive who is seeking to build a casino and resort in Jersey City, issued a joint statement announcing that they were ending their advertising campaign.

“We believe deeply that gaming expansion to northern New Jersey is a remarkable opportunity that should not be squandered,” the men said. “We have committed $4 billion in private investment to this state to create world-class resort destinations with gaming. The benefits include 43,000 new jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars in recaptured revenue — a rare opportunity for New Jersey. In addition, as New York debates allowing gaming in New York City, it is critical that we beat them to market or risk losing this opportunity permanently.

“The data, however, speaks for itself,” they added. “The current political climate in New Jersey and voters’ concerns about the lack of details relating to the effort have proved overwhelming. Even knowing that an out-of-country gaming company that sends New Jerseyans’ gaming dollars to Malaysia is funding opposition ads does not have an impact.”

Gural and Fireman were referring to Genting, which owns Resorts World at Aqueduct.

Mistrust in state officials that has led to skepticism about how the new casino tax revenue would be spent was a significant concern of a majority of voters, the men said.

A Rutgers University poll earlier this week showed that 58 percent oppose the measure and just 35 percent support it. The ballot question does not specify a tax rate at the proposed new casinos, and the locations could be anywhere north of New Brunswick.

The current campaign to expand gaming is mirroring New Jersey’s first efforts to legalize casino gaming in 1974, the men noted. That year, the New Jersey voters rejected a ballot initiative to legalize casino gambling due to a lack of specifics in the ballot question about where the casinos would be located. Two years later, voters approved a measure in a referendum that allowed casinos but restricted them to Atlantic City.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Hey Drazin-

You have been wrong every step of the way.
What now, Big Shot?!

[thespaah]

I'm not buying it.....
Something doesn't smell right

[onefast99]

I'm not buying it.....
Something doesn't smell rightI have to agree with you here, the commercials on the anti casino expansion have been successful even though they are mostly lies. It is evident the majority of the NJ voters don't really know what side to believe. And yes the previous administration(s)are also to blame here as they created a lot of mistrust.

[SuperPickle]

I have multiple friends who work in the industry in New Jersey and one who even works for Gural. Even none of them are voting for this thing.

It's a bad thing. For New Jersey and racing.

First every state around them already has casinos so they two new ones would draw almost no out of state revenue. The people down the shore will still go to AC. The people in the Philly suburbs will still go to the PA Casinos. The people in across the river from the Leigh Valley will go to the Sands in Bethlehem and Pocono. So you're talking about two casinos who are going to pull from a very small area.

If they had gotten a casino earlier maybe but now everyone has them. There's no big market share to get.

In terms of Monmouth it would not increase the purses even to set them apart from Parx, Laurel and Gulstream who they are losing all their horses too. It also wouldn't solve Monmouth's biggest problem which the land is too valuable to race horses on for 4 months. The reality is I think Monmouth is dead. You just can't run a seasonal track in a place with property values with a small horse population. Two casinos aren't really going to change that. I think Monmouth is dead in the next ten years.

Slots could have helped the Meadowlands. It doesn't have the real estate problems Monmouth has since its in the sports complex. The track is doing around $3 million most nights and its competing with Yonkers who does a tenth of that. So even a modest purse increase combined with horseman preferring the mile track could make a noticeable difference in racing.

However here's the real reason the people I know aren't voting for it. It would end horse racing in New Jersey this way. The politicians would let the tracks keep the money for purses in the beginning. But then we know New Jersey's state finances are a trainwreck. Hugh sales tax, huge property taxes and massive pension obligations. Sooner or later when Sweeney becomes governor he'd take the money for the purses and use it for those items. Everyone knows that's the play. And once that money goes away the tracks would fold.

The idea that 5-10 years in the state would continue to fund purses with slot revenue while the state went broke is laughable. Everyone knows the only person who slots is good for is Jeff Gural.

[thespaah]

I have multiple friends who work in the industry in New Jersey and one who even works for Gural. Even none of them are voting for this thing.

It's a bad thing. For New Jersey and racing.

First every state around them already has casinos so they two new ones would draw almost no out of state revenue. The people down the shore will still go to AC. The people in the Philly suburbs will still go to the PA Casinos. The people in across the river from the Leigh Valley will go to the Sands in Bethlehem and Pocono. So you're talking about two casinos who are going to pull from a very small area.

If they had gotten a casino earlier maybe but now everyone has them. There's no big market share to get.

In terms of Monmouth it would not increase the purses even to set them apart from Parx, Laurel and Gulstream who they are losing all their horses too. It also wouldn't solve Monmouth's biggest problem which the land is too valuable to race horses on for 4 months. The reality is I think Monmouth is dead. You just can't run a seasonal track in a place with property values with a small horse population. Two casinos aren't really going to change that. I think Monmouth is dead in the next ten years.

Slots could have helped the Meadowlands. It doesn't have the real estate problems Monmouth has since its in the sports complex. The track is doing around $3 million most nights and its competing with Yonkers who does a tenth of that. So even a modest purse increase combined with horseman preferring the mile track could make a noticeable difference in racing.

However here's the real reason the people I know aren't voting for it. It would end horse racing in New Jersey this way. The politicians would let the tracks keep the money for purses in the beginning. But then we know New Jersey's state finances are a trainwreck. Hugh sales tax, huge property taxes and massive pension obligations. Sooner or later when Sweeney becomes governor he'd take the money for the purses and use it for those items. Everyone knows that's the play. And once that money goes away the tracks would fold.

The idea that 5-10 years in the state would continue to fund purses with slot revenue while the state went broke is laughable. Everyone knows the only person who slots is good for is Jeff Gural.
Just a minute. That 'very small area has a population of 15 million people....
Let's say for example you reside in northern reaches of Bergen, Passaic or Sussex Counties. Throw in Morris, MIddlesex and Essex. Or Rockland, Orange Westchester, Putnam or Dutchess. And of course The five boroughs Nassau and Suffolk.....You have choices.
Now, are you going to travel 2 to 3.5 hrs to AC, battle traffic, pay tools, burn lots of gas, just to get to AC?.....Or are you going to battle traffic, pay tolls and burn gas to get to Foxwoods or Mohigan Sun.....Or are you going to get in your car drive 30 mins to an hour, pay no or little in tolls to Gamble right in your back yard. For those who live across the Hudson, trains can take you right to the casino(s).....
BTW, people at the shore are NOT going to AC now. What makes you think they will JUST BECAUSE they built a casino in the Meadowlands?....Newsflash AC business is off not just because of competition from neighboring states, but the traffic on the Garden State Parkway is horrendous. And AC has a gigantic crime problem....
Let us stipulate that you have an anti Northern NJ casino bias. And that bias is not permitting you to see clearly the facts.
Think about it. Someone sticks a casino within one hour travel time of 15 million people, what do you think the odds are of this place being a very busy casino?....Please be logical here.
Forget the NIMBY nonsense....

[SuperPickle]

Just a minute. That 'very small area has a population of 15 million people....
Let's say for example you reside in northern reaches of Bergen, Passaic or Sussex Counties. Throw in Morris, MIddlesex and Essex. Or Rockland, Orange Westchester, Putnam or Dutchess. And of course The five boroughs Nassau and Suffolk.....You have choices.
Now, are you going to travel 2 to 3.5 hrs to AC, battle traffic, pay tools, burn lots of gas, just to get to AC?.....Or are you going to battle traffic, pay tolls and burn gas to get to Foxwoods or Mohigan Sun.....Or are you going to get in your car drive 30 mins to an hour, pay no or little in tolls to Gamble right in your back yard. For those who live across the Hudson, trains can take you right to the casino(s).....
BTW, people at the shore are NOT going to AC now. What makes you think they will JUST BECAUSE they built a casino in the Meadowlands?....Newsflash AC business is off not just because of competition from neighboring states, but the traffic on the Garden State Parkway is horrendous. And AC has a gigantic crime problem....
Let us stipulate that you have an anti Northern NJ casino bias. And that bias is not permitting you to see clearly the facts.
Think about it. Someone sticks a casino within one hour travel time of 15 million people, what do you think the odds are of this place being a very busy casino?....Please be logical here.
Forget the NIMBY nonsense....


First off I'm no NIMBY. I'm fine with casinos in every gas station in America.

I'm just the guy explaining to your argument is b.s.

First off. You're far too late to the game. The market is saturated with casinos. Nothing is untaped in terms of a market. You've have to steal every player from another casino. This isn't as easy as throwing open a casino with a big sign.

You're 15 million number is bananas. It's laughable. It's like yonkers, Empire and Sands Bethlehem and Pocono Downs don't exist.

80%+ of people going to a casino at the Meadowlands or Jersey City would come from Bergen, Passaic, Hudson, Middlesex, Essex, and Rockland and Duchess County New York. The casino would literally be the closest casino to residents of about 8 counties. No one south of Trenton would go there they'd go to AC. All the folks out west in the Easton/Phillipsburg area would go to Sands. And the five boroughs? You're going to tell me with a straight face that people are going to pay a $15 toll to go the Meadowlands over going to Empire?

New Jersey only has 8 million people and change. Add Rockland County and maybe Duchess and get to around 9 million. Now take away all the people below Trenton or are going to go to AC or Parx. Now take away all the people out west who are going to Sands Bethlehem or even Pocono. Now 9 million is suddenly under 4 million. For TWO casinos. 15 million is a lot more like 4 million.

Now let's use Philly as a comparison. Philly with South Jersey is around 8 million people. So they have two casinos and twice the market.

There no way it produces any of the purse revenue you're claiming it will. Again the only guy it helps is Jeff Gural.

Btw... you didn't even touch the argument that the state is super broke and would steal the purse revenue to pay off pensions and other entitlements. No one can dispute this. Cuomo is already trying to cap revenue in NY to pay off stuff. You know Sweeney would do the same thing. It polls and most of the owners, trainers and jockeys are out of state residents. There's no breeding program in NJ. There's few horse racing related jobs. There's no lobby.

So really isn't the whole exercise pointless?

[onefast99]

First off I'm no NIMBY. I'm fine with casinos in every gas station in America.

I'm just the guy explaining to your argument is b.s.

First off. You're far too late to the game. The market is saturated with casinos. Nothing is untaped in terms of a market. You've have to steal every player from another casino. This isn't as easy as throwing open a casino with a big sign.

You're 15 million number is bananas. It's laughable. It's like yonkers, Empire and Sands Bethlehem and Pocono Downs don't exist.

80%+ of people going to a casino at the Meadowlands or Jersey City would come from Bergen, Passaic, Hudson, Middlesex, Essex, and Rockland and Duchess County New York. The casino would literally be the closest casino to residents of about 8 counties. No one south of Trenton would go there they'd go to AC. All the folks out west in the Easton/Phillipsburg area would go to Sands. And the five boroughs? You're going to tell me with a straight face that people are going to pay a $15 toll to go the Meadowlands over going to Empire?

New Jersey only has 8 million people and change. Add Rockland County and maybe Duchess and get to around 9 million. Now take away all the people below Trenton or are going to go to AC or Parx. Now take away all the people out west who are going to Sands Bethlehem or even Pocono. Now 9 million is suddenly under 4 million. For TWO casinos. 15 million is a lot more like 4 million.

Now let's use Philly as a comparison. Philly with South Jersey is around 8 million people. So they have two casinos and twice the market.

There no way it produces any of the purse revenue you're claiming it will. Again the only guy it helps is Jeff Gural.

Btw... you didn't even touch the argument that the state is super broke and would steal the purse revenue to pay off pensions and other entitlements. No one can dispute this. Cuomo is already trying to cap revenue in NY to pay off stuff. You know Sweeney would do the same thing. It polls and most of the owners, trainers and jockeys are out of state residents. There's no breeding program in NJ. There's few horse racing related jobs. There's no lobby.

So really isn't the whole exercise pointless?Maybe I am missing a few of the points that you are trying to drive home in this and your previous posts. No horse racing jobs, no breeding program in NJ, no need for a Northern NJ casino because no one will come? Ok one by one I will answer some of these inaccurate statements. The horse racing industry in NJ is alive and well the decrease in foals is primarily due to both an economic downturn in the industry nationwide, reduced racing dates in NJ and competition from the NY Bred program which is fueled by large purses and 3 NYRA tracks running year round.
Jobs in racing, NJ has been and will continue to be a family run breeding state where some of the older in state trainers and breeders focus on the Monmouth Park meet exclusively and would like nothing more than to work with NY and Pa to do a tri state program where state breds can run year round at Parx and Penn and NYRA tracks, this is something that needs to be accomplished for NJ to be competitive as sports wagering or another revenue stream isn't in the cards anytime soon.
You mentioned that a NJ casino wouldn't draw, you are dead wrong, Casino Player Magazine in an article several years ago stated that the Meadowlands could and may be the most coveted area to put a casino in the USA. Add the fact that NJ spend millions to get rail transportation to the Meadowlands, built a new multi purpose stadium(MetLife private funds)and continues to see a huge influx of business growth on the route 3 corridor add this up and you have the makings for what will most likely be one of the most successful casinos in the USA. Lastly is the cost associated with going to a casino, as you are well aware many casinos offer their players incentives to play there so a $15 dollar toll or a train or bus fare wouldn't deter anyone from coming to the Meadowlands.