Midnight Hawk??

[RunDustyRun]

Capping Belmont and I see that Jacobson is running Midnight Hawk in the first in a 12,500 claimer...horse is an earner of $570,000.00 and a graded stakes winner who he claimed off Baffert for 32,000 a few months ago...horse won that race by the way so he must have been somewhat sound...

he's now coming into the race with extremely slow works, but I guess that is the Jacobson way, but I do have a couple of questions....first, even if this horse wins and is claimed, Jacobson will lose money on the horse...does he do this often, what is the point? second, he should be a no look pick five single in the first if he runs close to his prior form, but would you bet him?? third, how likely is he to be claimed?

[cj]

Worst part of our sport.

[EMD4ME]

I hope someone claims Jacobson & ships him far away where no one will find him.

[cj]

I hope someone claims Jacobson & ships him far away where no one will find him.

I hate that people always seem to have to pay Jacobson to help out a horse. He never does it himself.

[EMD4ME]

I hate that people always seem to have to pay Jacobson to help out a horse. He never does it himself.

SUPER MILLIONAIRE. It's a disease amongst some super wealthy. They don't want to spend on something that doesn't make them more money.

Disgusting.


I hope he comes back to life as a sore racehorse trained by himself.

[EMD4ME]

Capping Belmont and I see that Jacobson is running Midnight Hawk in the first in a 12,500 claimer...horse is an earner of $570,000.00 and a graded stakes winner who he claimed off Baffert for 32,000 a few months ago...horse won that race by the way so he must have been somewhat sound...

he's now coming into the race with extremely slow works, but I guess that is the Jacobson way, but I do have a couple of questions....first, even if this horse wins and is claimed, Jacobson will lose money on the horse...does he do this often, what is the point? second, he should be a no look pick five single in the first if he runs close to his prior form, but would you bet him?? third, how likely is he to be claimed?

He does it all the time, especially the past couple of years. It's gone really really really pathetic. (The MAJOR sudden DROP).

He's 24/86 with a 50% drop the last 2 years. $1.50 roi ($2.00 ROI base)

1st off the claim AND a 50% drop, 14/43 $1.91 ROI

[Robert Fischer]

He does it all the time, especially the past couple of years. It's gone really really really pathetic. (The MAJOR sudden DROP).

He's 24/86 with a 50% drop the last 2 years. $1.50 roi ($2.00 ROI base)

1st off the claim AND a 50% drop, 14/43 $1.91 ROI

Thank you for the relevant stats.

When it comes to these animals, and to a lesser importance - but just as important for the health of the sport - when it comes to the fans; It only takes one.

One fan favorite whose health problems lead to running for peanuts and then breaking down, or eventually being dropped through the minor leagues and sold to slaughter is too much.

[onefast99]

He is on my IGNORE list as far as those I would claim from. Funny part is some of the top trainers are on that list as well. After 13 years claiming horses I finally learned my lesson. But since there are no real hard stop rules in place in the claiming game buyer beware should be the first rule of thumb.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Capping Belmont and I see that Jacobson is running Midnight Hawk in the first in a 12,500 claimer...horse is an earner of $570,000.00 and a graded stakes winner who he claimed off Baffert for 32,000 a few months ago...horse won that race by the way so he must have been somewhat sound...

he's now coming into the race with extremely slow works, but I guess that is the Jacobson way, but I do have a couple of questions....first, even if this horse wins and is claimed, Jacobson will lose money on the horse...does he do this often, what is the point? second, he should be a no look pick five single in the first if he runs close to his prior form, but would you bet him?? third, how likely is he to be claimed?
With many trainers, that sort of drop is a clear negative drop. Total for sale sign. But, Jacobson does this all the time, not always with rhyme or reason. It's not unusual to see him take a horse that finished second in a $32K and drop it to the bottom level.

He owns the horse today, and with the purse and a claim he's only out about $5K, plus expenses for three months.

I don't have a statistic, but he seems more miss than hit with the horses he's grabbed from Cal, regardless of how they look. For me, he would not be a single in the horizontals.

[RunDustyRun]

thanks for the responses...makes this board great...have a somewhat soft spot for this horse as he has made me a little money in the past plus I liked the breeding...I remember when he was claimed out of the Cali race and worried a little when they announced that Jacobson won the shake...figured he would be pointed for some higher level claiming races at Saratoga and couldn't have imagined he would end up in 12500 claimer...here's hoping he comes out sound and is claimed.....and I'm not singling him, which means he will probably win by open lengths

[the little guy]

David Jacobson....50% Drop in claiming price off a claim on the dirt....over the last five years he is 14 for 41 ( 34% ) with a $2.01 ROI. With these horses off layoffs between 75 and 150 days ( Midnight Hawk is 98 days ) he is 4 for 7 with a $3.34 ROI.

I wouldn't bet this horse, though you have to use him in the Pick-5, but any notion that Jacobson does not win with horses like this is simply not backed up by facts.

[Robert Fischer]

MH specifically, when he was in his prime with Baffert, he would lug in, and shut down in the stretch.
He was a very talented, very flawed racehorse.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I guess that answers that question.

[Frost king]

Not to defend Jacobson, but the horse won substantial money for the original owners. Why are they left scott free in this equation? They made more than enough money, to take care of him.

[the little guy]

Not to defend Jacobson, but the horse won substantial money for the original owners. Why are they left scott free in this equation? They made more than enough money, to take care of him.

Because people on the internet like to make Jacobson a scapegoat.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Because people on the internet like to make Jacobson a scapegoat.

He earned the reputation (from his earlier ban), no?

[the little guy]

He earned the reputation (from his earlier ban), no?

On the internet I guess he did.

The same internet that wept tears for Maria Borelli after she lost Runhappy...and then gave her a death sentence a few months later when different information arose.

[Saratoga_Mike]

On the internet I guess he did.



Do I have the wrong trainer? I know you respect Steve Crist, but everyone makes mistakes. Was his reporting here incorrect?

TRAINER IS CHARGED WITH HORSE NEGLECT

By STEVEN CRIST (The New York Times); Sports Desk

October 17, 1981, Saturday

"David Jacobson, a horse trainer based at Aqueduct, has been charged with failing to provide food and medical attention to a thoroughred that had to be destroyed last month. The State Racing and Wagering Board ordered Jacobson yesterday to show cause why his license to train should not be revoked for mistreatment of the horse, Hugable Tom, a 6-year-old gelding who was destroyed Sept. 28. Jacobson is the son of Howard (Buddy) Jacobson, formerly a leading trainer in New York, who is imprisoned for murder. According to a spokesman for the racing board, the mistreatment of Hugable Tom, who had won 11 races at Aqueduct and Belmont in the last two years, first came to the attention of board investigators in August. At Jacobson's hearing, set for Oct. 28, the investigators are expected to testify that Hugable Tom was so neglected that other trainers and backstretch help took it on themselves to give the gelding food and water"

[the little guy]

Do I have the wrong trainer? I know you respect Steve Crist, but everyone makes mistakes. Was his reporting here incorrect?


Why so indignant?

I responded to another poster that made a seemingly valid point. I'm not sure why you seem to be pining for a fight.

Whatever.

[EMD4ME]

Because people on the internet like to make Jacobson a scapegoat.

Yeah Andy, the internet makes Jacobsen a scapegoat.

It has nothing to do with who he is, what he does and what he's done countless times. :rolleyes:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why so indignant?

I responded to another poster that made a seemingly valid point. I'm not sure why you seem to be pining for a fight.

Whatever.

I was showing deference to your knowledge. I thought there was an outside shot I had something wrong. I readily admit you're better informed on these matter than me. You need to learn when someone disagrees with you or asks you a question, they aren't questioning your intelligence. Some of us like to learn from your inside perspective.

[the little guy]

I was showing deference to your knowledge. I thought there was an outside shot I had something wrong. I readily admit you're better informed on these matter than me. You need to learn when someone disagrees with you or asks you a question, they aren't questioning your intelligence. Some of us like to learn from your inside perspective.


Sounds a little passive aggressive to me, as obviously the story was well known, but OK.

Once again, David Jacobson is the internet's favorite whipping boy. The same internet that shed tears for Maria Borelli and then wanted to lynch her. I didn't defend Jacobson, however, as another poster ( the one I was answering ) pointed out, there may be other people worth mentioning. That was really all I said. Then the lynch mob came running ( sort of proving my point....even lynch mob leader EMD4ME that has slandered more than a few people on this board ).

[EMD4ME]

Sounds a little passive aggressive to me, as obviously the story was well known, but OK.

Once again, David Jacobson is the internet's favorite whipping boy. The same internet that shed tears for Maria Borelli and then wanted to lynch her. I didn't defend Jacobson, however, as another poster ( the one I was answering ) pointed out, there may be other people worth mentioning. That was really all I said. Then the lynch mob came running ( sort of proving my point....even lynch mob leader EMD4ME that has slandered more than a few people on this board ).

You can't be a lynch mob leader or a slanderer when all you speak is the truth.

You know how to make a fan, a non-fan, real quick with your sniper attacks.

Now I see why people say the things they do about you.

Regardless, have a blessed day and keep up the good work.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Sounds a little passive aggressive to me, as obviously the story was well known, but OK.

Once again, David Jacobson is the internet's favorite whipping boy. The same internet that shed tears for Maria Borelli and then wanted to lynch her. I didn't defend Jacobson, however, as another poster ( the one I was answering ) pointed out, there may be other people worth mentioning. That was really all I said. Then the lynch mob came running ( sort of proving my point....even lynch mob leader EMD4ME that has slandered more than a few people on this board ).

You live this business. I don't. I'm just a fan. Of course I admit you have superior knowledge to me. That said, sometimes I will disagree with you. I will ask for additional evidence from you to support your position. And sometimes, as a result, I will change my opinion.

I know very little about MB, and I've told EMD he's posted crap before. I think he just gets carried away. I'm not defending his posts. Given the Steve Crist article, you can understand why DJ is the "internet's favorite whipping boy," I assume? I know it was a long, long time ago, but if true it was very, very serious transgression.

[cj]

David Jacobson takes advantage of the rules available to him and makes money doing it. Somethings the horses get the short end of the stick. They never seem to get any rest and keep getting dropped, even shipped to tracks with lower claiming levels, when necessary.

Again, there is nothing illegal about it. That doesn't mean fans can't dislike him for his methods.

[RunDustyRun]

Horse was claimed by rudy rodriguez

[EMD4ME]

Horse was claimed by rudy rodriguez

Anyone but DJ training this horse or any horse and I'm happy.

This horse's chances of higher life expectancy just went up.

[pele polo]

Horse was claimed by rudy rodriguez

They seem to claim off each other consistently.

A couple winters back when Jacobson's percentage was really high, Rodriguez seemed to be the only guy who could claim one off of him with success and vice versa.

I don't have numbers to back it up, but that's what comes to memory.

[SuperPickle]

I don't want to be THAT guy but if horses like this didn't get dropped into claimers our already small fields would be a lot smaller.

Also I fail to see how Jacobson is the bad guy for running the horse for $16k but Baffert and a billionaire owner get a pass for running him for $32k.

It's hard to say Jacobson is getting a fair shake here.

[no breathalyzer]

Because people on the internet like to make Jacobson a scapegoat.



:ThmbUp: 5 star post.... glad i'm not the only one that thinks that way on this board

[tophatmert]

It's not the dropping and winning it's the claiming and moving up that is the problem for me . Several years ago DJ had a lot of suspicious move ups but that has subsided a lot . Horses leaving his barn seem to be holding up better now than in the past. Don't like him ,don't agree with his methods but I think the more horse he trains and owns the better off the horses might be . It was when he was training for others that the horses seemed to be getting the worst of it.

[PaceAdvantage]

You can't be a lynch mob leader or a slanderer when all you speak is the truth. The truth according to you. And often times, only you.

Big difference. You can have all the circumstantial and observational evidence you want, but that doesn't make your conclusion true. What you write about certain jockeys is exhibit #1. You write these things then conclude what the truth is. Yeah, maybe it's true, but maybe it's not.

You stating it as truth is the problem.

[EMD4ME]

The truth according to you. And often times, only you.

Big difference. You can have all the circumstantial and observational evidence you want, but that doesn't make your conclusion true. What you write about certain jockeys is exhibit #1. You write these things then conclude what the truth is. Yeah, maybe it's true, but maybe it's not.

You stating it as truth is the problem.

We discussed this and you know what I said about this topic. You will not see me post anything close to it in the future.

Hope you see the context of the conversation here and why it even came up.

[pele polo]

Let's Meet In Rio showed up at Zia Park today in $24,000 AlwN2L, got beat a nose by another SoCal shipper who had only been competitive at MCL20k.

Trainer Justin Evans had two other former Baffert horses on the card, one of which also made his last start for Baffert. Both got beat dropping in for 12.5k from 25k.

Evans also ended up with a Conquest 3yo (owners recently dispersed their stock), last seen for Casse at GP. He won a open maiden with this one. Conquest Nitro was purchased at Fasig Tipton's horses of racing age sale for 26k. He placed twice in open maidens at OP and GP and third for 75k at Kee, but had made his last start for MCL35k first time turf before the auction. Looks like a decent buy at that price.

Not sure what they paid for these Baffer horses, but they all looked like damaged goods today.