Calder running meet with no grandstand, no bathrooms, no on-site betting

[dilanesp]

This is beyond my ability to comment:

http://www.osga.com/online_gaming_articles.php?Where-horses-run-and-quarterbacks-play-for-wagering-purposes-only-17749#.V9cqDilrjIU

[johnhannibalsmith]

But hey if you decide to show up anyway you might be able to pay admission and parking.

[EMD4ME]

Yeah, contraction is great for racing :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:bang: :bang: :bang:

[Augenj]

This is beyond my ability to comment:

http://www.osga.com/online_gaming_articles.php?Where-horses-run-and-quarterbacks-play-for-wagering-purposes-only-17749#.V9cqDilrjIU
Same here but the end we feared and expected has finally arrived. :ThmbDown:

[Clocker]

A lot of stoopers are going to have to find actual employment. :eek:

[Tom]

Maybe Gulfstream still has that grandstand on wheels they could loan them.

[ronsmac]

:[/QUOTE Handle has gone way up , since GP has taken over the majority of Calder's dates.

[VigorsTheGrey]

The next step is of course that the tracks will each have their own stable of horses and all the trainers and jockeys will be placed on the payroll of the track...all the wagering will be done off-site in homes or in localized simulcast locations decentralized for maximum market penetration...

Private trainers will be a thing of the past, and jockeys will be paid flat salary rate, win or lose...The breeding farms will merge with the tracks...

Monopolies based on geography will dominate the local scenes, and top equine stars will showcase their wares on select BIG DAYS on sites that rotate through the monopolists private and heavily guarded equine plantations....

All the horses under each plantation will be genetically related to each other and will have the top plantation stallion genetic marker name as part of their name tag and identification....

Competition and prestige will consist of the rivalry between opposing plantations and breeding lines scored by performance on BIG DAYS...

[iamt]

The reason for this has been covered in the past and was a major issue around the time of the last GPW/CRC meet in relation to the stalls there.

When negotiating the lease for the facility GP only ended up with physical rights to the track itself; not the stalls and not the grandstand. CDI can do what they want with those, and obviously have.

GP would much rather have the facilities, or probably run all the dates at GP, but there would be regulatory requirements that keep them heading out.

[Pensacola Pete]

Considering the fields, I've seen, they may as well run the meet without horses, too.

[Tom]

GP would much rather have the facilities, or probably run all the dates at GP, but there would be regulatory requirements that keep them heading out.

GP should buy the teletimer and be happy. :rolleyes:

[SuperPickle]

Yeah, contraction is great for racing :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:bang: :bang: :bang:

Of course it is. What's the argument for the later?

[therussmeister]

The article was wrong about one thing. It said, "In essence, they are existing to accommodate simulcast wagering only."

Nope! They are existing to accommodate casino gambling. Without the meet Calder can't have the casino.

[VigorsTheGrey]

To my knowledge, holding horse racing meets without fans watching is totally unprecedented in US history...why do I get the feeling that this is totally the fox guarding the henhouse? Am I that skeptical of human nature? Just so strange...

[v j stauffer]

To my knowledge, holding horse racing meets without fans watching is totally unprecedented in US history...why do I get the feeling that this is totally the fox guarding the henhouse? Am I that skeptical of human nature? Just so strange...

We did it on a couple of rainy November Thursdays at HP.

[thaskalos]

The article was wrong about one thing. It said, "In essence, they are existing to accommodate simulcast wagering only."

Nope! They are existing to accommodate casino gambling. Without the meet Calder can't have the casino.

:ThmbUp:

You'd think that the author of the article would have figured that out. After all...who in their right mind is still betting Calder via simulcast?

[cj]

To my knowledge, holding horse racing meets without fans watching is totally unprecedented in US history...why do I get the feeling that this is totally the fox guarding the henhouse? Am I that skeptical of human nature? Just so strange...

Pretty sure Penn did something like this just a few years ago.

[EMD4ME]

Pretty sure Penn did something like this just a few years ago.

Close CJ. I was there once a month when the grandstand was being rebuilt. We were placed in a large tent near the 3/16 pole. But at least that was better than what Calder is doing .

[ronsmac]

Pretty sure Penn did something like this just a few years ago.Does anyone even go to Penn National now? I watched a race one night and saw 2 people on the apron.

[cj]

Does anyone even go to Penn National now? I watched a race one night and saw 2 people on the apron.

Did you recognize me?

[dilanesp]

Does anyone even go to Penn National now? I watched a race one night and saw 2 people on the apron.

Well I suppose that we could say that they've been running horse races without anyone at the track for years in America.... :)

[CincyHorseplayer]

:ThmbUp:

You'd think that the author of the article would have figured that out. After all...who in their right mind is still betting Calder via simulcast?

When the weather starts to sour up north I end up playing Calder or Zia etc. I actually had a great November there last year!

[EMD4ME]

Did you recognize me?
:lol: :lol:

[VigorsTheGrey]

With no fans and no onsite facilities for fans open, Calder should have no excuse for not lowering the take-out, right?

The fact that they might not, would clearly indicate that they are in it for the bottom line only, and could care less about what racing fans want....

[EMD4ME]

I have a STUPID question.


Why are they tearing down the grandstand? They have years left on the lease. Are they rebuilding a new one? Will this no grandstand thing be a permanent thing (until CRC is closed for good)?

[Zydeco]

Did you recognize me?

I knew that was you!!!! lol

[VigorsTheGrey]

I have a STUPID question.


Why are they tearing down the grandstand? They have years left on the lease. Are they rebuilding a new one? Will this no grandstand thing be a permanent thing (until CRC is closed for good)?

It could very well represent racings' new paradigm...fan-less race meets...all other onsite expenses eliminated or trimmed to the bone....putting up with people track side IS a hassle and IS very expensive....racing will still have fans but they will be safely betting in their homes or local betting parlors..

[ReplayRandall]

I have a STUPID question.


Why are they tearing down the grandstand? They have years left on the lease. Are they rebuilding a new one? Will this no grandstand thing be a permanent thing (until CRC is closed for good)?

I think Robert Goren's signature says it all:

"Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will be betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".

RIP- Perry Tunks.....aka Robert Goren

[EMD4ME]

I think Robert Goren's signature says it all:

"Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will be betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".

RIP- Perry Tunks.....aka Robert Goren

RIP Perry Tunks.......Words of wisdom :ThmbUp:

[cj]

RIP Perry Tunks.......Words of wisdom :ThmbUp:

Is there a thread about this? Really sorry to hear this.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Is there a thread about this? Really sorry to hear this.
yes, http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132938&highlight=Robert+Goren

[dilanesp]

I have a STUPID question.


Why are they tearing down the grandstand? They have years left on the lease. Are they rebuilding a new one? Will this no grandstand thing be a permanent thing (until CRC is closed for good)?

My guess is they are building something like Stronach built at Gulfstream East- small seating area, large casino.

[EMD4ME]

My guess is they are building something like Stronach built at Gulfstream East- small seating area, large casino.

Thank you Dilan :ThmbUp:

[proximity]

Close CJ. I was there once a month when the grandstand was being rebuilt. We were placed in a large tent near the 3/16 pole. But at least that was better than what Calder is doing .

that was pen's "paddock club" and it was actually a lot nicer than i thought it would be and the food was much, much better than their current clubhouse "my cousin vinny; breakfast, lunch, dinner" menu.

[EMD4ME]

that was pen's "paddock club" and it was actually a lot nicer than i thought it would be and the food was much, much better than their current clubhouse "my cousin vinny; breakfast, lunch, dinner" menu.

I enjoyed it. I have a pathetic picture of me kissing the Penn Logo when the grandstand was months away from being erected.


I miss the days that I hung out on the top floor, in the dining area next to Bogar.

He HATED ME :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why? Because I'm a yeller. So when you constantly heard yells for RIDE this 1, suck up 4 for the super, LEFT HAND WHIP 1, GET THIS 1 HOME, suck up 4 for the super, DIG in 3 for 2nd-YOU'RE bigger than the 2, get it home like this, while he picked the 5, it gets on your nerves :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll never forget. One race, I said WIRE TO WIRE ONE, as the lights were dark, we heard "IT IS NOW POST TIME" and the last horse was loading.

He was at the next table and said: Oooooone? Oooone has no speed?

They're off!

Along the inside (insert name here-the #1) breaks well, 58 seconds later:

WIRE TO WIRE #1 BABY. RIDE THIS ONE CORA!

Shoot, making $10,000 in one card didn't beat the euphoria of looking at the look at their faces as I rooted my ASS off in 7 out of 9 races a visit.

I loved Pig Pen from 1998 till 2004 or so. The good ole days.

Nevermind being there as a child in 1981-1982-1983-1984-1985-1986-1987-1988-1989-1990-1991-1992-1993 etc.



They tore down paradise and put up gambling video games....pop pop pop pop pop :bang:

[iamt]

The racetrack lease was just to stop them racing head to head with Gulfstream and related to the race course only. GP have to run a certain number of dates (40?) so that CDI can keep the casino licence valid.

It is CDI making the renovations/modifications. I don't know what the plans are but as currently structured they have no incentive to invest in building a racing facility.

[EMD4ME]

The racetrack lease was just to stop them racing head to head with Gulfstream and related to the race course only. GP have to run a certain number of dates (40?) so that CDI can keep the casino licence valid.

It is CDI making the renovations/modifications. I don't know what the plans are but as currently structured they have no incentive to invest in building a racing facility.

That make sense. So, there goes Calder's grandstand, forever.

I wish ISIS were horseplayers. They would make CDI shutter & sell their horse tracks.

[thaskalos]

I enjoyed it. I have a pathetic picture of me kissing the Penn Logo when the grandstand was months away from being erected.


I miss the days that I hung out on the top floor, in the dining area next to Bogar.

He HATED ME :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why? Because I'm a yeller. So when you constantly heard yells for RIDE this 1, suck up 4 for the super, LEFT HAND WHIP 1, GET THIS 1 HOME, suck up 4 for the super, DIG in 3 for 2nd-YOU'RE bigger than the 2, get it home like this, while he picked the 5, it gets on your nerves :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll never forget. One race, I said WIRE TO WIRE ONE, as the lights were dark, we heard "IT IS NOW POST TIME" and the last horse was loading.

He was at the next table and said: Oooooone? Oooone has no speed?

They're off!

Along the inside (insert name here-the #1) breaks well, 58 seconds later:

WIRE TO WIRE #1 BABY. RIDE THIS ONE CORA!

Shoot, making $10,000 in one card didn't beat the euphoria of looking at the look at their faces as I rooted my ASS off in 7 out of 9 races a visit.

I loved Pig Pen from 1998 till 2004 or so. The good ole days.

Nevermind being there as a child in 1981-1982-1983-1984-1985-1986-1987-1988-1989-1990-1991-1992-1993 etc.



They tore down paradise and put up gambling video games....pop pop pop pop pop :bang:

You carry on like this during EVERY RACE?

[MonmouthParkJoe]

You carry on like this during EVERY RACE?


Reminds me of a guy at the Borgata race book, although his words werent as diversified.

"PUMP HIM PUMP HIM!!!!"

Dear god it was the worst, and still is Im sure haha

[proximity]

I loved Pig Pen from 1998 till 2004 or so. The good ole days.

Nevermind being there as a child in 1981-1982-1983-1984-1985-1986-1987-1988-1989-1990-1991-1992-1993 etc.



i too liked to root "left hand" to get those front runners out towards the crown of the track coming down the lane.

magical times, those days you mentioned. a lot of days walking in early with BOTH the am and pm drfs under my arm and walking out a dozen (plus) hours later carrying the next day's racing forms.

rinse and repeat. :cool:

[EMD4ME]

You carry on like this during EVERY RACE?

At the time, in my 20's yes. Now its hit or miss.Mostly, yes. And I couldn't care less.

If you don't hear me rooting, it means I passed the race , I have no shot in that race or I'm so mellow that even if I'm getting back 10k no one has a clue.

Like poker. I like to keep people guessing.

[EMD4ME]

i too liked to root "left hand" to get those front runners out towards the crown of the track coming down the lane.

magical times, those days you mentioned. a lot of days walking in early with BOTH the am and pm drfs under my arm and walking out a dozen (plus) hours later carrying the next day's racing forms.

rinse and repeat. :cool:

F*** yeah proximity! :ThmbUp:

Those were awesome days!

I miss making my right turn, driving up the hill and then magically that valet hill appeared up ahead (sigh)

[HuggingTheRail]

Will they pump in crowd noise on the video feed?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Will they pump in crowd noise on the video feed?

Beern doing that at CDI's Arlington Park for close to 10 years now.

[EMD4ME]

Will they pump in crowd noise on the video feed?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[v j stauffer]

At the time, in my 20's yes. Now its hit or miss.Mostly, yes. And I couldn't care less.

If you don't hear me rooting, it means I passed the race , I have no shot in that race or I'm so mellow that even if I'm getting back 10k no one has a clue.

Like poker. I like to keep people guessing.

I've been playing horses at a fairly high level for 45 years.

I've probably been alive for a 10k score riding on one race maybe twice a year or 90 times in my life.

You act like it's an everyday occurrence. Operative word being act.

I truly wish I had a better word at my disposal than CLOWN.

Why are you so insistent on proving you're a big player when everything you say clearly proves just the opposite?

I know. I know. TROLL POLICE I already have my hands behind my back.

But there's just something bizarre about you EMD. Despite the fact I know, know, KNOW I'm supposed to just shut up. I can't seem to do it.

Your posts are like driving past an accident on I-95. I know I shouldn't look but try as I might I just can't help it.

Sorry in advance to PA and all PA members. I know I'm going to get ripped.

Again!

I gotta give you credit EMD.

You've managed to get me talking to myself at 4:26pst.

There's simply something about you that drives me ****ING koo koo.

:p

Carry on!!

[EMD4ME]

I love ya too Vic :p


If moving on to me is your "save face with my Andy comments" strategy, then by all means do what makes you happy !

You don't tick me off anymore so I'm not biting :lol:

[no breathalyzer]

:D bad bait Vic

[v j stauffer]

:D bad bait Vic

I know. I said that in the text of the post.

It wasn't a bait but I admitted it would seem like one.

I'm sorry Breath. The guy just drives me CRAZY! :rolleyes:

[EMD4ME]

Can you imagine if I take you up on your offer and visit hot springs this winter :eek:

You might throw me off the 5th floor balcony! :lol:

[Inner Dirt]

Does anyone even go to Penn National now? I watched a race one night and saw 2 people on the apron.

Since Colonial Downs was shut down Penn National at 210 miles (shortest drive) is the closest to me and I am planning to go some time. Since I saw it was right off 81 when my girlfriend and I were coming back from a vacation in upstate New York a few months back I decided to check it out. I just walked around on the apron and looked at the track and infield. I was shocked to find out they were racing the night I had stopped in at around noon. It had the looks of a track that was in between meets, not one currently running.

[v j stauffer]

Can you imagine if I take you up on your offer and visit hot springs this winter :eek:

You might throw me off the 5th floor balcony! :lol:

No. Unlike many others on this site. I will draw my own conclusions as to whether I like you or not based on face to face interaction.

Rather than silly 3rd or 4th party whispers from sad people with an agenda of jealousy and hate.

You're of course welcome as my guest at Oaklawn.

But just in case, I hope the top of the grandstand is higher than 5 floors. :kiss:

[cj]

No. Unlike many others on this site. I will draw my own conclusions as to whether I like you or not based on face to face interaction.

Rather than silly 3rd or 4th party whispers from sad people with an agenda of jealousy and hate.

You're of course welcome as my guest at Oaklawn.

But just in case, I hope the top of the grandstand is higher than 5 floors. :kiss:

PM feature works fine here guys.

[v j stauffer]

PM feature works fine here guys.




vBulletin Message

Sorry cj is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:27 AM.

[EMD4ME]

PM feature works fine here guys.

Understood. Sorry.

[Loosehorse]

This was from last week

[betovernetcapper]

Having not been to a track in 15 years or so, I thing this is a GREAT idea. They can use the savings for purses, profits & rebates. Everyone should be happy. :)

[Loosehorse]

This was from August. Now all left standing is the elevator shafts.
Those trailers are for the officials etc.

[EMD4ME]

We did it on a couple of rainy November Thursdays at HP.

Just out of curiosity how low was attendance those rainy days?

[EMD4ME]

Having not been to a track in 15 years or so, I thing this is a GREAT idea. They can use the savings for purses, profits & rebates. Everyone should be happy. :)

I got my love for the game from live racing. Where will the new fans come from if there is no live racing?

[cj]

vBulletin Message

Sorry cj is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:27 AM.

That is a shame for both of us.

[dilanesp]

This was from last week

And as they pass by the shipping containers for the first time....

[EMD4ME]

And as they pass by the shipping containers for the first time....

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Coming down the final row of containers.... :lol:

Now a serious question. Where will the photo finish equipment be placed?

[VigorsTheGrey]

And as they pass by the shipping containers for the first time....

Will owners be allowed to be there for pictures in the Winner's Circle?

How can they ban owners and trainers from being there?

Turning into a private club...one can only guess who will be occupying the lower, middle and upper containers....

Race caller probably on the top, with stewards...who knows?

Maybe the lower container is for trainers/ owners..and the middle container for?

Or are these for construction personnel?

[FrankieFigs]

I wish there were a couple of pics of the "non-grandstand" area. Would like to see what they are going to do with the race caller, stewards, etc.....

[ronsmac]

I got my love for the game from live racing. Where will the new fans come from if there is no live racing?
New fans?

[EMD4ME]

New fans?

:( :( :( :(

It's sad that people just accept that.

I many times wish I was in charge of marketing for a track. I'd DIE trying to market this game. There's just SO much that can be done, that is not.

[VigorsTheGrey]

:( :( :( :(

It's sad that people just accept that.

I many times wish I was in charge of marketing for a track. I'd DIE trying to market this game. There's just SO much that can be done, that is not.

They simply MUST be exposed to the sport at an early age 14, 15 or 16 at the latest....I don't exactly know what makes us different from other people....I have always loved this game....young people nowadays have too many other distractions and I hate to say this but technology of all kinds is destroying all sorts of older ways....you can't get the attention of young people long enough even to get them away from their computer games, e-pads, phones, etc...not even for 5 minutes....

I have friends with kids with all sorts of learning issues and disorders related to tech overuse. It's not just horse racing that is going down the memory hole...it is 3 or 4 generations' way of living that is being revolutionized whether we like it or not....crazy stuff....!

[FrankieFigs]

I wish there were a couple of pics of the "non-grandstand" area. Would like to see what they are going to do with the race caller, stewards, etc.....

Missed a page. :sleeping: Thanks Loosehorse.

[EMD4ME]

They simply MUST be exposed to the sport at an early age 14, 15 or 16 at the latest....I don't exactly know what makes us different from other people....I have always loved this game....young people nowadays have too many other distractions and I hate to say this but technology of all kinds is destroying all sorts of older ways....you can't get the attention of young people long enough even to get them away from their computer games, e-pads, phones, etc...not even for 5 minutes....

I have friends with kids with all sorts of learning issues and disorders related to tech overuse. It's not just horse racing that is going down the memory hole...it is 3 or 4 generations' way of living that is being revolutionized whether we like it or not....crazy stuff....!

You just gave me an idea! Horse racing lessons in school LOL! :lol:

What a great live example to correlate to MATH, SOCIAL STUDIES, PHILOSOPHY etc.

Horse racing is a game for geniuses and so it SHOULD BE MARKETED.

[ReplayRandall]

Horse racing is a game for geniuses and so it SHOULD BE MARKETED.

Actually, the game for geniuses is chess....Horse racing needs to be "Searching for it's own Bobby Fischer", to re-market the game.

[EMD4ME]

Actually, the game for geniuses is chess....Horse racing needs to be "Searching for it's own Bobby Fischer", to re-market the game.

I get your point but I hope you get mine.

What is the marketing strategy for our game? THERE IS NONE :(

I'll never forget being a young one in this game and being asked: Why do you play this game? I stated a dozen reasons.

This gentlemen showed me how rich he was. He had already proven how smart he was.

We discussed a lot but the bottom line is, we agreed that we play for the intellectual stimulation of this game. It's a game of who's smarter.


Smart people have money. Smart people have millions to play with. Smart people are intellectually bored.

Market the game to the "smartest". Give them attention for being "the smartest player".

Create a smartest player of the week award. Do it in the Pierre Hotel in NYC or "pick a place" USA, based upon a handicapping contest.

Show a commercial of 10 successful distinguished males and females handicapping a card, make it socially acceptable to BE AT THE TRACK, show them thinking a play through, the race running, them rooting and finish it with an intellectual WOW.

Followed up with public recognition and an award to show off.


There is SO MUCH these idiots in charge can do but refuse to do because if it fails, they might be fired from their cushy job.

Respectfully buddy, we don't need a Fischer player, we need a Fischer marketer.

[ReplayRandall]

Awhile back, I started a thread, dealing with the bygone aspects of marketing in horse racing. Give it a look:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118339

[VigorsTheGrey]

It really IS a cultural thing...the pageantry that goes on in Japan, for example, is a social phenomenon respected though out the culture (one would think)...

There is a real dignity to the sport there..even the grooms dress in suits there on race days...It might have something to do with the large geography of our country that tend to work against this centralizing spirit of participation....

Japan is a relatively small, country with a very high population density....

Still, one MUST have a feel for the sport, it is an intensely romantic sport filled with potential equine heroes, and, unfortunately, sometimes tragedy right on the track in front of everyone....

I can think of no other sport that carries this potential to stir the emotions....BUT most other people simply do not feel this way at all...they simply do not understand our way of life and our feeling for the sport....

[EMD4ME]

Because no one has had the testicular fortitude to MARKET it thay way. IMHO.


These stupid fantasy league games would be 2nd tier to this game if the leaders had a frieken brain.

They have 200 million people to market to and all they do is market to existing players.

STUPID.

[ronsmac]

Actually, the game for geniuses is chess....Horse racing needs to be "Searching for it's own Bobby Fischer", to re-market the game.Chess is another dead or dying game. My first hero as a five year old was Bobby Fischer, even before Lynn Swann, Bert Jones or Dr. J. I watched Pbs every weekend for updates on Korchnoi vs the evil Kasparov and talked about the results with friends as we were off to football practice. That could never happen today.

[dilanesp]

I'm a fan of at least one other has-been sport- track and field. They say all the same things over there about marketing.

Unfortunately it ain't that easy. Both sports have tried plenty of marketing. But tastes change. It's very hard to fight that.

[ReplayRandall]

Chess is another dead or dying game. My first hero as a five year old was Bobby Fischer, even before Lynn Swann, Bert Jones or Dr. J. I watched Pbs every weekend for updates on Korchnoi vs the evil Kasparov and talked about the results with friends as we were off to football practice. That could never happen today.

My point is what Fischer did for the explosive popularity of chess, which was nothing to the American public prior to his arrival. Horse racing needs to think in those terms, which has some hope with the NHC, Breeders Cup Betting Challenge and the Horseplayer's World Series. Players like Jonathon Kinchen and Christian Hellmers seemed like they tapped into something on a "Bobby Fischer" type level of play and excitement, but both could not sustain it. But sponsors are starting to finally come around, making a TV reappearance on ESPN, a viable possibility.....Who knows what can happen from there, but horse racing needs SOMETHING to create new fans and excitement.

[SG4]

I've been playing horses at a fairly high level for 45 years.

I've probably been alive for a 10k score riding on one race maybe twice a year or 90 times in my life.

You act like it's an everyday occurrence. Operative word being act.


Really really really don't like sticking my thoughts into this for more than a second, but Vic, we know you're involved with high end tournaments & players on a continuous basis, how much do you think some of these guys are putting through the windows per race? Genuinely curious because I don't know the answer, and wonder what you see.

Point being when I had a smaller bankroll it was a rare & exciting occurrence if a five figure score was up for the taking. As the bankroll builds & more exotic bets were offered, it doesn't take as much any more to have these opportunities arise (actually cashing is another story!), but the words EMD speaks don't sound far-fetched at all to me, so I wonder why so much disbelief from you on this point?

[ronsmac]

Chess is another dead or dying game. My first hero as a five year old was Bobby Fischer, even before Lynn Swann, Bert Jones or Dr. J. I watched Pbs every weekend for updates on Korchnoi vs the evil Kasparov and talked about the results with friends as we were off to football practice. That could never happen today.I meant the evil Karpov not Kasparov.

[SG4]

I get your point but I hope you get mine.

What is the marketing strategy for our game? THERE IS NONE :(

I'll never forget being a young one in this game and being asked: Why do you play this game? I stated a dozen reasons.

This gentlemen showed me how rich he was. He had already proven how smart he was.

We discussed a lot but the bottom line is, we agreed that we play for the intellectual stimulation of this game. It's a game of who's smarter.


Smart people have money. Smart people have millions to play with. Smart people are intellectually bored.

Market the game to the "smartest". Give them attention for being "the smartest player".

Create a smartest player of the week award. Do it in the Pierre Hotel in NYC or "pick a place" USA, based upon a handicapping contest.

Show a commercial of 10 successful distinguished males and females handicapping a card, make it socially acceptable to BE AT THE TRACK, show them thinking a play through, the race running, them rooting and finish it with an intellectual WOW.

Followed up with public recognition and an award to show off.


There is SO MUCH these idiots in charge can do but refuse to do because if it fails, they might be fired from their cushy job.

Respectfully buddy, we don't need a Fischer player, we need a Fischer marketer.

I wish intellectual challenge & stimulation was a useful marketing ploy, but seriously what percentage of the population is that going to reach? Next time you're at Aqueduct strike up a conversation with the bevy of slots players & ask why they're not looking for a more stimulating way to spend their entertainment dollars. Or wait at the 7-11 and ask people why they pour money into all the lottery games at a 40% takeout instead of getting their kicks by throwing those numbers on a trifecta box instead?

And then if you're really smart you're going to realize fairly quickly you're likely doomed to a losing endeavor. I've introduced a number of well educated & smart people to the track, and no matter how I slice the challenge of the races there's pretty much never been a follow up of interest. The most thoughtful exchange was the friend who could not understand how everyone didn't go broke almost immediately when playing against a house takeout of say 15%. It takes a real certain kind of passion to be willing to put in the time & effort to feel like you have a fighting chance consistently in this game, and it's not an easy sell when entertainment dollars & time can be spent so readily doing other things.

[barn32]

Actually, the game for geniuses is chess....Horse racing needs to be "Searching for it's own Bobby Fischer", to re-market the game.They can search all they want, but as long as they're taking out 27% for trifectas and superfectas there won't be any money left over to bet with.

[dilanesp]

There are three ways to convince non-addicts to gamble:

1. Convince people they can beat the game. (This is how the poker and fantasy sports games succeeded for a period of time.)

2. Offer them big jackpots. (The lottery works this way.)

3. Convince them it is fun. (Las Vegas.)

The problem with 1 is it is ephemeral- people eventually realize they can't actually beat the game. The problem with 2 is it only works when there is a big jackpot. The problem with 3 is that people have only so much disposable income and so many other choices.

[proximity]

There are three ways to convince non-addicts to gamble:

1. Convince people they can beat the game. (This is how the poker and fantasy sports games succeeded for a period of time.)

2. Offer them big jackpots. (The lottery works this way.)

3. Convince them it is fun. (Las Vegas.)

The problem with 1 is it is ephemeral- people eventually realize they can't actually beat the game. The problem with 2 is it only works when there is a big jackpot. The problem with 3 is that people have only so much disposable income and so many other choices.

another way is to offer them a reason (pay them) to come back.

in our poker forum you can see how maryland casinos (rewards credits, promo chips, foreman grills,.....) use this to get me to drive down from pennsylvania.....where i get NOTHING.

[barahona44]

Adjusted for inflation, handle hit its peak in 1964.
Racing needs marketing, but the reality is tracks and Nevada were the only places to legally gamble that year.1964 was also the year the first state lottery was introduced (New Hampshire), then came more state lotteries, Atlantic City,Indian casinos, the expansion of Las Vegas and the rest of Nevada, natonal lotteries, yet more casinos,etc.

To me, I'm not surprised racing hasn't expanded.

I'm surprised it survived.

[dilanesp]

Adjusted for inflation, handle hit its peak in 1964.
Racing needs marketing, but the reality is tracks and Nevada were the only places to legally gamble that year.1964 was also the year the first state lottery was introduced (New Hampshire), then came more state lotteries, Atlantic City,Indian casinos, the expansion of Las Vegas and the rest of Nevada, natonal lotteries, yet more casinos,etc.

To me, I'm not surprised racing hasn't expanded.

I'm surprised it survived.

I'm not surprised it survived. It still has a niche following, some devoted gamblers, and a few marketable products like the Triple Crown, Saratoga and Del Mar, etc.

But this is half of the basic case for contraction, as painful as it is. (The other half is that the advent of simulcasting means that you no longer need to bet your local track, and handle is concentrated in the hands of a few tracks with a national profile. So racing should concentrate among those few super-tracks.)

The only thing that could really kill the sport is if animal rights catches on. Otherwise we'll survive. Note that even harness racing has survived despite facing even greater stresses than thoroughbred racing has faced.

But we are never going to market our way back to 1960's popularity. The best that marketing can do is let us grow within our niche a bit, or maybe get a few more "big" events into the public's consciousness.

Also, it's worth noting that modern industry practices make marketing more difficult. All the doping doesn't help, for instance. Also the early retirement and infrequent races of big stars-- in 1964, if we had a 5 year old like California Chrome, and a TC winner in 1963, first of all, the TC winner would not have retired and second of all, both of them would be racing frequently in the various big stakes and handicap races, and probably against each other. And people would come to see those races.

[davew]

The next step is of course that the tracks will each have their own stable of horses and all the trainers and jockeys will be placed on the payroll of the track...all the wagering will be done off-site in homes or in localized simulcast locations decentralized for maximum market penetration...

Private trainers will be a thing of the past, and jockeys will be paid flat salary rate, win or lose...The breeding farms will merge with the tracks...

Monopolies based on geography will dominate the local scenes, and top equine stars will showcase their wares on select BIG DAYS on sites that rotate through the monopolists private and heavily guarded equine plantations....

All the horses under each plantation will be genetically related to each other and will have the top plantation stallion genetic marker name as part of their name tag and identification....

Competition and prestige will consist of the rivalry between opposing plantations and breeding lines scored by performance on BIG DAYS...

and they will run short like quarter horses a couple times a week

and the track will be sloppy because it rains often in Portland....

[thaskalos]

I wish intellectual challenge & stimulation was a useful marketing ploy, but seriously what percentage of the population is that going to reach? Next time you're at Aqueduct strike up a conversation with the bevy of slots players & ask why they're not looking for a more stimulating way to spend their entertainment dollars. Or wait at the 7-11 and ask people why they pour money into all the lottery games at a 40% takeout instead of getting their kicks by throwing those numbers on a trifecta box instead?

And then if you're really smart you're going to realize fairly quickly you're likely doomed to a losing endeavor. I've introduced a number of well educated & smart people to the track, and no matter how I slice the challenge of the races there's pretty much never been a follow up of interest. The most thoughtful exchange was the friend who could not understand how everyone didn't go broke almost immediately when playing against a house takeout of say 15%. It takes a real certain kind of passion to be willing to put in the time & effort to feel like you have a fighting chance consistently in this game, and it's not an easy sell when entertainment dollars & time can be spent so readily doing other things.

"Addiction" might be a better word for it.

[thaskalos]

I'm not surprised it survived. It still has a niche following, some devoted gamblers, and a few marketable products like the Triple Crown, Saratoga and Del Mar, etc.

But this is half of the basic case for contraction, as painful as it is. (The other half is that the advent of simulcasting means that you no longer need to bet your local track, and handle is concentrated in the hands of a few tracks with a national profile. So racing should concentrate among those few super-tracks.)

The only thing that could really kill the sport is if animal rights catches on. Otherwise we'll survive. Note that even harness racing has survived despite facing even greater stresses than thoroughbred racing has faced.

But we are never going to market our way back to 1960's popularity. The best that marketing can do is let us grow within our niche a bit, or maybe get a few more "big" events into the public's consciousness.

Also, it's worth noting that modern industry practices make marketing more difficult. All the doping doesn't help, for instance. Also the early retirement and infrequent races of big stars-- in 1964, if we had a 5 year old like California Chrome, and a TC winner in 1963, first of all, the TC winner would not have retired and second of all, both of them would be racing frequently in the various big stakes and handicap races, and probably against each other. And people would come to see those races.

IMO...you are being overly generous when you say that harness racing has "survived".

[Loosehorse]

This is what's left of the building.
Elevator shafts and stairways.

[Loosehorse]

See trailers in place