Brown wins trainer title and question

[Fager Fan]

“It really feels like a dream come true,” said Brown, the leading trainer on the New York Racing Association circuit in 2015. “I'm really just like the lead singer of a band; the people behind me make the music. I'm here right now giving the interview but I have 150 employees and every single one of them I find to be highly skilled and highly dependable in working as a team. I have several employees who do things that I can't do and I do some things they can't do. But we all pitch in and do our job and this is truly a team effort. I'm just a lucky guy to be able to wake up and go to the barn and have them working with me.”

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My mouth dropped open at 150 employees. Just how many horses does he have? It has to be more than 200, doesn't it? Conservatively, meaning 3 horses per groom, 4 per hot walker, and 10 per exercise rider, that'd only total about 90 employees by the time you add in a few foremen and assistants. Maybe he has closer to 300 horses?

[thespaah]

“It really feels like a dream come true,” said Brown, the leading trainer on the New York Racing Association circuit in 2015. “I'm really just like the lead singer of a band; the people behind me make the music. I'm here right now giving the interview but I have 150 employees and every single one of them I find to be highly skilled and highly dependable in working as a team. I have several employees who do things that I can't do and I do some things they can't do. But we all pitch in and do our job and this is truly a team effort. I'm just a lucky guy to be able to wake up and go to the barn and have them working with me.”

------------

My mouth dropped open at 150 employees. Just how many horses does he have? It has to be more than 200, doesn't it? Conservatively, meaning 3 horses per groom, 4 per hot walker, and 10 per exercise rider, that'd only total about 90 employees by the time you add in a few foremen and assistants. Maybe he has closer to 300 horses?
I would have to say its probably one groom for every two horses. And 4 per Hot is about right. I had a friend who was a groom he had two in race training. Its likely that one groom can handle more than two if some are not in race mode.
I could see at least one supervisor per 5 grooms and maybe one foreman for each two supervisors. Plus there are administrative people who handle accounting, logistics( transportation) travel arrangements for shippers/ horse s transporting from one track to another or to/from track/farm(s).
Exercise riders are usually not employees...Current or former trainers please correct if this is not accurate. It is my understanding that many younger or inexperienced jockeys will hit the back side in the wee hours to ask trainers if they can get on their horses. Each workout, gallop, etc, gets them a fee.
Anyway, it is very possible Brown is in the ball park with his estimate.

[Fager Fan]

Only two per groom seems low. Exercise riders are employees. They're too valuable to just hire anyone who comes by to hop on their horses.

A trainer friend estimated that he'd have 250 horses with that number of employees. That's a lot of horses.

[thespaah]

Only two per groom seems low. Exercise riders are employees. They're too valuable to just hire anyone who comes by to hop on their horses.

A trainer friend estimated that he'd have 250 horses with that number of employees. That's a lot of horses.
Horses in training are a lot of work. Maybe you're right because Thoroughbreds race infrequently.

[Fager Fan]

Horses in training are a lot of work. Maybe you're right because Thoroughbreds race infrequently.

I've heard of 3 being the good number, that 4 can be common but can stretch them thin.

[chadk66]

four is the norm. on some cheaper tracks five would be closer to normal. With big outfits generally the exercise riders are full time for the barn. For small stables they usually have free lancers.

[Ruffian1]

Just to add to Chads answers which I totally agree, those riders often times go out in sets of 2,3,4,5 depending on what they are doing. The riders will often times have other smaller duties in the AM with premier outfits instead of hoping off of one and right on another. So getting on about 6 per day would probably be more the norm. Whereas 10 would be more the norm at a lesser venue than a premier meet or for a premier trainer.
With two training options as well , the main and Okla. , the math on riders on salary would need to be adjusted payroll wise, again, for those high quality outfits.
Hope that helps.

[Fager Fan]

Just to add to Chads answers which I totally agree, those riders often times go out in sets of 2,3,4,5 depending on what they are doing. The riders will often times have other smaller duties in the AM with premier outfits instead of hoping off of one and right on another. So getting on about 6 per day would probably be more the norm. Whereas 10 would be more the norm at a lesser venue than a premier meet or for a premier trainer.
With two training options as well , the main and Okla. , the math on riders on salary would need to be adjusted payroll wise, again, for those high quality outfits.
Hope that helps.

Not sure what you mean regarding the two tracks. They have to be split among a number of tracks.

I appreciate the replies but I guess my point wasn't clear. I was looking for estimates on how many horses he has.

Put together the number of horses he has with the number of employees he has, and it creates a giant warm fuzzy, doesn't it? Training title? Isn't it really a management of the people who do the training title?

There is zero way a racing commissioner would allow these corporate stables. They can get the races written that they need and when they need them. They can script races with their multiple entrants. They are given more stall space which squeezes others out. They can control jockeys through threats of not getting to ride for them. They can control the tracks and stewards who want their horses.

[chadk66]

Not sure what you mean regarding the two tracks. They have to be split among a number of tracks.

I appreciate the replies but I guess my point wasn't clear. I was looking for estimates on how many horses he has.

Put together the number of horses he has with the number of employees he has, and it creates a giant warm fuzzy, doesn't it? Training title? Isn't it really a management of the people who do the training title?

There is zero way a racing commissioner would allow these corporate stables. They can get the races written that they need and when they need them. They can script races with their multiple entrants. They are given more stall space which squeezes others out. They can control jockeys through threats of not getting to ride for them. They can control the tracks and stewards who want their horses.I would guess he has 200 or so scattered around. Some at the farm at all times I would guess. Maybe 200 in training at all times in all places is possible. Diodoro has 200 or more. Lukas always had 200 plus in his golden era. Racing commissioner has no say in it. Nothing they are doing is illegal. And yes they can be the racing secretaries best friend. And worst enemy at times. At Cby there are at least three guys pushing 80 head at that track alone. Maybe four. So those three or four essentially control 20-25% of the horses at the track.

[Ruffian1]

Not sure what you mean regarding the two tracks. They have to be split among a number of tracks.

I appreciate the replies but I guess my point wasn't clear. I was looking for estimates on how many horses he has.

Put together the number of horses he has with the number of employees he has, and it creates a giant warm fuzzy, doesn't it? Training title? Isn't it really a management of the people who do the training title?

There is zero way a racing commissioner would allow these corporate stables. They can get the races written that they need and when they need them. They can script races with their multiple entrants. They are given more stall space which squeezes others out. They can control jockeys through threats of not getting to ride for them. They can control the tracks and stewards who want their horses.

I meant at Saratoga, the 2 different training options. Sure, he has several barns full in other locations, no question.

Between 200 and 250 horses is a solid guesstimate. That makes sense.

It is absolutely management of horses, owners, riders and employees.

[v j stauffer]

Only two per groom seems low. Exercise riders are employees. They're too valuable to just hire anyone who comes by to hop on their horses.

A trainer friend estimated that he'd have 250 horses with that number of employees. That's a lot of horses.

Most grooms are paid by the number of horses they rub. 4 is usually the norm. A trainer of Brown's status no doubt has some of the best on the grounds.

Those veteran guys will be rewarded by being able to take care of the stars of the barn.

Elite grooms will traditionally be given a bonus of 1 percent of the Stakes earnings of each horse he/she rubs.

It's also not uncommon for a big time owner to shake hands with a groom at the barn with a couple hundo's in their hands.

When I had Rosario and we won a stake I'd remind him to find a little taste for the groom as well.

Sometimes there would also be a Pizza party for the barn.

When we won the BC Joel sprung for a full blown fiesta at Carla Gaines' barn.

Very gratifying to see workers from adjacent barns coming by to enjoy the feast.

[EMD4ME]

Most grooms are paid by the number of horses they rub. 4 is usually the norm. A trainer of Brown's status no doubt has some of the best on the grounds.

Those veteran guys will be rewarded by being able to take care of the stars of the barn.

Elite grooms will traditionally be given a bonus of 1 percent of the Stakes earnings of each horse he/she rubs.

It's also not uncommon for a big time owner to shake hands with a groom at the barn with a couple hundo's in their hands.

When I had Rosario and we won a stake I'd remind him to find a little taste for the groom as well.

Sometimes there would also be a Pizza party for the barn.

When we won the BC Joel sprung for a full blown fiesta at Carla Gaines' barn.

Very gratifying to see workers from adjacent barns coming by to enjoy the feast.

That's the side of you I like to see. Great job encouraging the philotimo behavior Vic :ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

That's the side of you I like to see. Great job encouraging the philotimo behavior Vic :ThmbUp:

Two very gratuitous posts.

Since when did you appoint yourself as my etiquette monitor?

I suggest you mind your own manners. I'll mind mine.

Thanks

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[EMD4ME]

Two very gratuitous posts.

Since when did you appoint yourself as my etiquette monitor?

I suggest you mind your own manners. I'll mind mine.

Thanks

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

I'm not anyone's monitor sir. Or a moderator or judge.

I was speaking my mind. I am never jaded and always speak the truth. Regardless of who says it.

I found the posts interesting and replied. No more no less.

If it makes you fell better, we can go back to bickering at eachother. I'm game :lol: :lol: :lol:

[v j stauffer]

I'm not anyone's monitor sir. Or a moderator or judge.

I was speaking my mind. I am never jaded and always speak the truth. Regardless of who says it.

I found the posts interesting and replied. No more no less.

If it makes you fell better, we can go back to bickering at eachother. I'm game :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry. I have no yearning to interact with you at all.

[EMD4ME]

Sorry. I have no yearning to interact with you at all.

SHARP POST :ThmbUp: ;) :D :D :D

[v j stauffer]

I'm not anyone's monitor sir. Or a moderator or judge.

I was speaking my mind. I am never jaded and always speak the truth. Regardless of who says it.

I found the posts interesting and replied. No more no less.

If it makes you fell better, we can go back to bickering at eachother. I'm game :lol: :lol: :lol:

This post is all crappola.

You found the posts interesting and replied?

How would that equate to you being proud of me?

Proud? That I said something nice? That's for my mother or kindergarten teacher.

It's your self centered way of saying you think most of my posts are mean and abusive.

And patting me on the back for being a good boy. Or at least what you perceive a good boy to be.

You are such a clown!

Oops. There goes all my pride equity.

[EMD4ME]

No hidden agenda or hidden meanings . It was nice of you to make sure Joel took care of the barn.

Take the compliment Vic. That's all it was, no more no less.

Give it time. (Like 2 minutes :lol: ). I'm sure we'll find something to bicker about :lol:

[NY BRED]

Based upon the stats of the Chad Brown empire and/or Corporation", it is
possible his staff could rapidly absorb horses from various owners
racing not only in NY but throughout the country

We might one day witness a race with one entry, ie:

1,1A through 1k ;

Perhaps the Ortiz Brothers and JJ will be encouraged to expand their
families to handle this scenario?


:eek: :eek: :eek:

[TheOracle]

I don't know how many horses C C Brown has but he had 164 entries for the entire season at Saratoga !!!

http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/cc1.jpg

http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/cc2.jpg

http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/cc3.jpg

http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/cc4.jpg

http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/cc5.jpg

You didn't make much money if you played his horses for the season in fact you lost 17% if you played his horses across the board at $2 to win, place and show each time!!!


What is particularly interesting is that on August 27th he put out 18 horses in one day less than half of them hit the board and as I understand it he earned over $1,000,000 in purses that day!!


http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/ccbrownaugsartwnsvn.jpg

However, the betting public lost their shirt wagering on his horses, yet he gets the Training title!!!

[TheOracle]

The were few areas that I could see where you could squeeze out a profit from C C Brown's horses but you needed a crystal ball to take advantage of the situations!!


http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/ccmdnclmrstrfsar.jpg

His Maiden Claimers on the Turf gave a decent profit across the board at 23% per $2 wager to win, place and show but this was impossible to see given the rate at which he entered horses at Saratoga!!!

[TheOracle]

His horses did their best work for the public in Allowance Optional Claiming* races on the Dirt where they hit the board in 8 out of 8 attempts including 5 wins!!!

http://www.insidethenumbers.net/images/comments/ccalwoptclmsar.jpg


Again, you needed a crystal ball to see it when he's raining horses on you it's impossible to pick up on any significant advantages!!!

Allowance Optional Claiming* -- I group all (Optional Claiming, Starter Optional Claiming, etc) as Allowance Optional Claiming

[EMD4ME]

Hey Oracle,

How do you feel about C C Brown? :lol: Don't be shy buddy! :ThmbUp:

EMD4ME

[TheOracle]

Hey Oracle,

How do you feel about C C Brown? :lol: Don't be shy buddy! :ThmbUp:

EMD4ME

Hahahaha lmfao

Yeah I need to break out of my shell I guess I'm just too shy hahahaha lol lmfao!!!