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Racey
08-31-2016, 06:05 PM
Anybody order the new book yet ?....any reviews please post.

NorCalGreg
08-31-2016, 07:40 PM
Anybody order the new book yet ?....any reviews please post.


I haven't yet....didn't know it was already for sale. Supposed to be a small software program that comes with it.

jk3521
08-31-2016, 08:42 PM
Anybody order the new book yet ?....any reviews please post.

It's supposed to be in the mail tomorrow.

ReplayRandall
08-31-2016, 08:49 PM
POWER PACE HANDICAPPING BOOK and software program - 59.99 plus $4.99 shipping

Hey Pandy, How about a discount for us PA members? What's the price of the book, just by itself? I don't need the software....

jk3521
08-31-2016, 08:58 PM
POWER PACE HANDICAPPING BOOK and software program - 59.99 plus $4.99 shipping

Hey Pandy, How about a discount for us PA members? What's the price of the book, just by itself? I don't need the software....

I'm actually hoping that the software will do the work for me. My attention span is waning. :D

pandy
08-31-2016, 09:07 PM
POWER PACE HANDICAPPING BOOK and software program - 59.99 plus $4.99 shipping

Hey Pandy, How about a discount for us PA members? What's the price of the book, just by itself? I don't need the software....


Thanks for the interest. I priced the book based on how valuable I thought the information was. Even without the software that comes with it I was going to charge $59.99 or more. It's more expensive than my other books because of the testing that I've done, and my own betting. And it was a lot of work. Good stuff doesn't come easy.

I wish I had something like this when I first started betting horses over forty years ago. It would have saved me years and thousands of hours of handicapping. Anyone who uses the methodology in the book to find spot plays will be light years ahead of the vast majority of bettors. If you play the tournaments, and haven't had much success, this will make you a contender.

jk3521
08-31-2016, 09:23 PM
Combine Pace View by NorCalGreg and the Power Pace By Pandy and you've got it all ! It'll be interesting to try to get them to work together. I've got lots of time. Not much money, but lots of time. :)

NorCalGreg
08-31-2016, 10:23 PM
"It's more expensive than my other books because of the testing that I've done, and my own betting."

That just struck me as funny, pandy :D Wish I could pass on my losing bets to the price of my software!

pandy
08-31-2016, 10:38 PM
"It's more expensive than my other books because of the testing that I've done, and my own betting."

That just struck me as funny, pandy :D Wish I could pass on my losing bets to the price of my software!


Ha ha...of course, it was because I was winning.

thaskalos
08-31-2016, 10:56 PM
Ha ha...of course, it was because I was winning.
If you've priced this book at $60 because you were winning...then your other systems must have been sold at a much lesser price because you were losing...no?

pandy
08-31-2016, 11:09 PM
If you've priced this book at $60 because you were winning...then your other systems must have been sold at a much lesser price because you were losing...no?

Why doesn't your post surprise me?

thaskalos
08-31-2016, 11:25 PM
Why doesn't your post surprise me?

Because you know that I am not a guy who believes that someone who is having great success using a handicapping method would ever put it up for sale...at ANY price.

pandy
08-31-2016, 11:44 PM
When I was a young man working at Sports Eye , a gentleman named Rich Flanagan called me and asked to meet. We met and he showed me ledgers of statistics going back several years comparing every public handicapper who handicapped NY harness races, and showing that I was the only one who had profitable picks. And of course, that was why I had a huge following and was able to go into business a year later. And yes, I was winning consistently with my own betting.

I guess I could have quit the business and kept those picks and my knowledge and perspectives to myself. I'm glad I didn't. This career has been a dream come true. I've met thousands of horseplayers, plus many wonderful people in the business including some of the finest handicappers in the country, been on television and radio many times, been published in three countries on two continents. Right now a gentleman from Sweden is translating one of my books for publication in Europe.

Publishers and editors contact me asking me to provide picks or do other work for them. I get paid to watch horse races and I supplement that income with my wagers. I think I made a wise decision, and I certainly don't have any regrets.

thaskalos
08-31-2016, 11:57 PM
You said that you priced your latest book at $60 because a lot of work went into it...and you've had great success using the method in your own betting. Is it unfair to ask a system-seller why he is selling a highly profitable method to the general public? If it is...then I apologize.

pandy
09-01-2016, 12:11 AM
You said that you priced your latest book at $60 because a lot of work went into it...and you've had great success using the method in your own betting. Is it unfair to ask a system-seller why he is selling a highly profitable method to the general public? If it is...then I apologize.

No, I guess not. I guess some people find this hard to believe, but I actually like helping people enjoy the sport more. I love horseracing and I like to see people win. I know that cynics think that if you sell a winning method that it won't work anymore. I win consistently with my Pro Simulcast spot play method and so do many people who bought it. I sold it way too cheap when I came out with it years ago, but that was before I did a lot of testing and after it came out a gentleman ran the basic rules through his huge computer database of results, years of results, and he was shocked to find that it broke even on flat win bets, even without implementing all of the rules (which couldn't be programmed into the test). Pro Simulcast was the best spot play method that has ever been published. Until now, Power Pace is better. And I don't have to worry about the payoffs dropping. If I sold this in 1980 it would have sold thousands of copies. Now there aren't enough horse players to generate a huge amount of sales, and I don't advertise, anyway.

And, by the way, I posted the picks for Power Pace on my website for months, live testing, and I bet every one of them, and it did show a profit. Live testing for everyone to see. No one else does that.

Oh, and by the way, those tests picks, I never looked at the past performances. I used nothing but pace figures.

VigorsTheGrey
09-01-2016, 12:44 AM
Pandy,
How does one acquire the book and software?

acorn54
09-01-2016, 04:22 AM
i don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but i've seen this movie before. jeff platt back in 2004 gave me and a few others what was at that time a hard coded software program which showed a profit, using it... FOR A TIME. it was just a matter of time for the information to become common knowledge and that was the end of the party. at present one has to code jcapper with sql programming to get uncommon knowledge, to show a profit. the large players in the game today periodically test all serious methodologies, according to jeff. believe him or not, but i have found when he says something, it is probably true.

pandy
09-01-2016, 07:06 AM
Pandy,
How does one acquire the book and software?

handicappingwinners.com

pandy
09-01-2016, 07:12 AM
i don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but i've seen this movie before. jeff platt back in 2004 gave me and a few others what was at that time a hard coded software program which showed a profit, using it... FOR A TIME. it was just a matter of time for the information to become common knowledge and that was the end of the party. at present one has to code jcapper with sql programming to get uncommon knowledge, to show a profit. the large players in the game today periodically test all serious methodologies, according to jeff. believe him or not, but i have found when he says something, it is probably true.


I tend to disagree. Professional bettors are already set. Big bettors are also usually doing their own thing. What Gus said is true in the sense that most horseplayers dismiss books and methods because they figure if it worked it wouldn't be sold. The vast majority of horseplayers don't study handicapping. Let's put it this way, if I thought that everyone who plays the horses would buy my book, I wouldn't have published it. I've been doing this a long time. I know the market. And as I said, I don't advertise. I'm not trying to sell it to everyone.

Generally speaking, although the horseplayers who follow this forum are certainly representative of today's racing fan, there are thousands of other people who bet horses who probably have no idea that this forum exists, and believe it or not, they do not study handicapping in the way that many on this forum do. There are many cynics, who bet horses, but don't actually believe that they can win. To them, a horse is nothing more than a slot machine with legs. You wouldn't believe how many horseplayers I've met who uttered these words, "You can't beat'em."

acorn54
09-01-2016, 07:52 AM
jeff has mentioned to us on the jcapper forum that the parimutuel pool money is about 20 percent represented by the big money players (a small handful), and also his research has found the odds in relation to the win efficiency of the probability of horses winning has improved dramatically over the last 10 years.
like i said, if jeff says it , it is probably true. i have never found him to lack veracity in what he says, and is not a self-serving individual.

pandy
09-01-2016, 07:59 AM
jeff has mentioned to us on the jcapper forum that the parimutuel pool money is about 20 percent represented by the big money players (a small handful), and also his research has found the odds in relation to the win efficiency of the probability of horses winning has improved dramatically over the last 10 years.
like i said, if jeff says it , it is probably true. i have never found him to lack veracity in what he says, and is not a self-serving individual.


I don't doubt that, there is less sucker money and you can see that when you go to an off track center. I'm not sure what the percentage is, but a significant amount of that money may come from the syndicate bettors, who are using computer generated handicapping.

DeltaLover
09-01-2016, 11:50 AM
I am buying a lot of books every year (under / over has to be 80). The first thing I will do when I am considering a book is to "Look inside" getting the feeling of what it is about and how it is written, going through the contents, index, introduction and bibliography while I also pay close attention to reviews. What I think is interesting, is that despite my careful book screening procedures I still end up with a close to 30% return rate for various reasons!

I am saying these because after going through your site (http://www.handicappingwinners.com/power_pace.htm) I did not find any "Look Inside" neither any buyer's comments, something that immediately turns my interest off.

Have you consider marking your book available through amazon, providing some more information following the standards of today's book market so we can have some more objective criteria about it?

pandy
09-01-2016, 12:29 PM
Oh yes, it will be available on Amazon but not until later this month. We're going on vacation the week after next so I wanted to wait to list it on Amazon. At that point it will have that feature you mentioned, and of course, reviews. Amazon is great but they take a large commission.

traynor
09-01-2016, 04:15 PM
No, I guess not. I guess some people find this hard to believe, but I actually like helping people enjoy the sport more. I love horseracing and I like to see people win. I know that cynics think that if you sell a winning method that it won't work anymore. I win consistently with my Pro Simulcast spot play method and so do many people who bought it. I sold it way too cheap when I came out with it years ago, but that was before I did a lot of testing and after it came out a gentleman ran the basic rules through his huge computer database of results, years of results, and he was shocked to find that it broke even on flat win bets, even without implementing all of the rules (which couldn't be programmed into the test). Pro Simulcast was the best spot play method that has ever been published. Until now, Power Pace is better. And I don't have to worry about the payoffs dropping. If I sold this in 1980 it would have sold thousands of copies. Now there aren't enough horse players to generate a huge amount of sales, and I don't advertise, anyway.

And, by the way, I posted the picks for Power Pace on my website for months, live testing, and I bet every one of them, and it did show a profit. Live testing for everyone to see. No one else does that.

Oh, and by the way, those tests picks, I never looked at the past performances. I used nothing but pace figures.

Some specifics would be interesting. As in "ROI flat bets entire sequence of X bets at X tracks" (as opposed to "June 3 to June 9 at Nobodyeverheardofit Downs", or similar).

pandy
09-01-2016, 04:28 PM
I tested live on my website on the "free" page and the picks and results are still there. I'm the only writer/handicapper in history who does this. I don't remember Andy Beyer giving out free picks based on his figures prior to publishing Picking Winners.

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 04:45 PM
I tested live on my website on the "free" page and the picks and results are still there. I'm the only writer/handicapper in history who does this. I don't remember Andy Beyer giving out free picks based on his figures prior to publishing Picking Winners.

I went to your website and checked under the "free" page...but I found no "live" selections there. Just some summarized results of races that have already been run. Any selections for the upcoming weekend?

traynor
09-01-2016, 04:49 PM
I tested live on my website on the "free" page and the picks and results are still there. I'm the only writer/handicapper in history who does this. I don't remember Andy Beyer giving out free picks based on his figures prior to publishing Picking Winners.

That doesn't address the issue of specifics.

Any relationship between Burkan's Power Pace, and yours?

I also have a copy of POWER PACE - A METHOD FOR HANDICAPPING THOROUGHBRED RACES by Barry Burkan. It has a copyright date of 1986 on the front cover, which is an older version than the copy of POWER PACE than Donnie had for sale...
T2W

rsetup
09-01-2016, 05:02 PM
A while back I read an article about Haralabos Voulgaris, the NBA bettor who was featured in Nate Silver's book. Apparently, he and his tech guru have built the best database and model. Yet, on season, Bob apparently spends the majority of his days watching games - live and taped. This indicates the amount of effort required to be a successful sports bettor.

I draw no conclusions concerning some of the claims in this thread. I just know that it's generally hard, and quite costly, monitarily and otherwise, to go from not being able to successfuly do something to becoming successful at it. And for $60 no less.

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 05:21 PM
A while back I read an article about Haralabos Voulgaris, the NBA bettor who was featured in Nate Silver's book. Apparently, he and his tech guru have built the best database and model. Yet, on season, Bob apparently spends the majority of his days watching games - live and taped. This indicates the amount of effort required to be a successful sports bettor.

I draw no conclusions concerning some of the claims in this thread. I just know that it's generally hard, and quite costly, monitarily and otherwise, to go from not being able to successfuly do something to becoming successful at it. And for $60 no less.

If all it took to become a "winner" in this game was to pay $60 and get a book to read...then there would be an overabundance of "winners" out there. Instead...the winners are so rare that 95% of the betting public hasn't even run into one of them.

Tom
09-01-2016, 06:17 PM
So when your book comes out, it will not have the real ideas you use at the tracK? Because you would never reveal them?

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 06:39 PM
So when your book comes out, it will not have the real ideas you use at the tracK? Because you would never reveal them?

No winning player will give out his playbook, Tom. It's a cut-throat competition out there, and the profit margins are mighty slim...and getting slimmer.

traynor
09-01-2016, 06:53 PM
No winning player will give out his playbook, Tom. It's a cut-throat competition out there, and the profit margins are mighty slim...and getting slimmer.

The terms "winning player" (not just for a little while way back when, but currently, using the methods indicated) and "profit margins" (if any exist) are why I asked for specifics. I think it may be wishful thinking to expect that any marketed/publicly published method can be applied to future races and be profitable. Again, that is why I asked for specifics. While past performance is no guarantee of future results (in almost anything), it would be useful to see the specifics of an extended test. The lack of such is worrisome.

NorCalGreg
09-01-2016, 06:56 PM
If all it took to become a "winner" in this game was to pay $60 and get a book to read...then there would be an overabundance of "winners" out there. Instead...the winners are so rare that 95% of the betting public hasn't even run into one of them.

Yes ....that's all it takes to become a "winner" in this game.

For the 5% who possess the mental fortitude, discipline, reasoning ability, spatial talent to succeed in this maddening game.

It's been said you can give a flat out, no handicapping winning method to 100 people--that merely requires the absolute mental discipline to ONLY bet at optimal times---inside a month 99 will have already turned it into a loser.

I've ordered every book pandy ever wrote--because I LEARNED SOMETHING.

My handicapping improved as a result.

That is what pandy is selling--not a diagram on how to get rich.

-NCG

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 07:36 PM
I've ordered every book pandy ever wrote--because I LEARNED SOMETHING.

My handicapping improved as a result.

That is what pandy is selling--not a diagram on how to get rich.

-NCG

In post #6 of this thread...Pandy said that his new method would turn us into "contenders" in the handicapping tournaments, even if we are not having success in those tournaments now. So...my guess is that he is suggesting something more than a mere "improvement" to our game. And that's what I am questioning here.

Can I read a book and become a contender in a tournament...even if I am unsuccessful at the tournaments now?

jk3521
09-01-2016, 07:38 PM
In post #6 of this thread...Pandy said that his new method would turn us into "contenders" in the handicapping tournaments, even if we are not having success in those tournaments now. So...my guess is that he is suggesting something more than a mere "improvement" to our game. And that's what I am questioning here.

Can I read a book and become a contender in a tournament...even if I am unsuccessful at the tournaments now?

Wow, we have a tough crowd here.

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 07:40 PM
Wow, we have a tough crowd here.
And this means WHAT? You thought we are little KIDS here?

jk3521
09-01-2016, 08:02 PM
Can I read a book and become a contender in a tournament...even if I am unsuccessful at the tournaments now?

That is a childish question to ask ! :D

pandy
09-01-2016, 09:09 PM
Yes ....that's all it takes to become a "winner" in this game.

For the 5% who possess the mental fortitude, discipline, reasoning ability, spatial talent to succeed in this maddening game.

It's been said you can give a flat out, no handicapping winning method to 100 people--that merely requires the absolute mental discipline to ONLY bet at optimal times---inside a month 99 will have already turned it into a loser.

I've ordered every book pandy ever wrote--because I LEARNED SOMETHING.

My handicapping improved as a result.

That is what pandy is selling--not a diagram on how to get rich.

-NCG


Good post, thank you. 80% of my customers have bought more than one product from me. I get letters all the time from people asking me what I'm working on because my stuff has helped them and they are looking forward to my next book. My goal, as always, is to enjoy handicapping and betting horses and come out ahead at the end of the year. I never intended to try to get rich betting on horses.

Racey
09-01-2016, 10:06 PM
And his methods got me back into playing more than just occasional. I have never questioned his integrity or his products I started the thread hoping for member review of the book never meant to have this become a questioned event. We all know a black box does not exist.. Pandy shares his ideas and we should be grateful. Pay the $60 or not I was just hoping folks can share their opinion about the software & book.

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 10:49 PM
And his methods got me back into playing more than just occasional. I have never questioned his integrity or his products I started the thread hoping for member review of the book never meant to have this become a questioned event. We all know a black box does not exist.. Pandy shares his ideas and we should be grateful. Pay the $60 or not I was just hoping folks can share their opinion about the software & book.
Racey...this isn't the first time that you've started a thread here inquiring about Pandy's upcoming products. You say that Pandy is the guy who "got you back in the game"...and that you have "never questioned his integrity and his products". And yet...every time Pandy has a new product out...here you are starting threads asking OTHERS about their opinion of Pandy's new offering. If you know the man...and you have absolute confidence in his integrity and his products...then, what other assurances do you need? Pay the $60...and you could always get a refund if you don't like the product. What do you need our opinion for?

BCOURTNEY
09-01-2016, 11:04 PM
If all it took to become a "winner" in this game was to pay $60 and get a book to read...then there would be an overabundance of "winners" out there. Instead...the winners are so rare that 95% of the betting public hasn't even run into one of them.


The betting public encounters the winners with every wager placed.

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 11:06 PM
The betting public encounters the winners with every wager placed.

Very profound! :ThmbUp:

whodoyoulike
09-01-2016, 11:22 PM
No, I guess not. I guess some people find this hard to believe, but I actually like helping people enjoy the sport more. I love horseracing and I like to see people win. I know that cynics think that if you sell a winning method that it won't work anymore. ...

A lot of people just don't understand this. I actually do. Fortunately, I've been to several seminars and have read a number of books by individuals with the same philosophy. Keep it up because without people like you, horseplayers will die off a lot sooner than later.

:1: Is your book strictly TB or does it also focus on harness because I'm strictly TB and I know you have a harness background?

:2: Is this the book which covers identifying stamina?

pandy
09-01-2016, 11:28 PM
And just for the record, this 5% number that's supposed to represent the minority that win at betting horses, I don't believe it and never have. There is certainly a silent majority who bet horses who are almost as uniformed as those who play the slot machines. But there are many solid handicappers who are always working on their game. You know something, if you lose $30,000 over a ten year period and then hit a pick 6 for $60,000, bingo, you are now a winning horseplayer. I think we confuse "consistent winners" with winners and losers. You don't have to win consistently to come out a winner over the long run.

When I first started betting horses, when I was 17, I met an older guy, Bernie, who was probably in his mid 50's. He who owned a small restaurant, what we used to call "Coffee Shops." Anyway, Bernie and I went partners and bet superfectas and we got on a roll, winning thousands of dollars on the super. One day we were at the track having a good time and I thanked him for tutoring me on handicapping. He looked at me and said, "But I'm a losing horseplayer, Bob. I've been playing all my life and I only just starting winning consistently lately, since I teamed with you and started betting superfectas."

I said, "First of all, you're a very good handicapper. And, you were a losing horseplayer. Now you're a winner. You just were making the wrong type of bets."

pandy
09-01-2016, 11:43 PM
A lot of people just don't understand this. I actually do. Fortunately, I've been to several seminars and have read a number of books by individuals with the same philosophy. Keep it up because without people like you, horseplayers will die off a lot sooner than later.

:1: Is your book strictly TB or does it also focus on harness because I'm strictly TB and I know you have a harness background?

:2: Is this the book which covers identifying stamina?

Thank you very much. This is strictly a thoroughbred book. I tell the story in the book, but this all got into my head a long time ago when a customer of mine and I were going over Gulfstream's winter meet every day. He was keying sustained horses but he had figured out which ones to bet (not the ones that come from the clouds). He was destroying Gulfstream. That made me realize that I wasn't putting enough emphasis on how a horse finishes.

I like working with numbers and I thought about trying to quantify it many times but I got sidetracked or the formula I was looking for just didn't click. I finally got around to it last year.

One thing that I personally believe is that most handicapper factors are vastly overrated. Even watching races is overrated. I watch races because I love watching the horse I bet on run, but I've known quite a few "trip handicappers" who bet on slow horses and get into terrible slumps. Pedigree, earnings per start, and most other handicapping factors are all almost insignificant compared to the only thing that's truly reliable. Time. And not just final time. The fractions are just as important.

Clocker
09-01-2016, 11:51 PM
If I didn't know better, I would be mystified by this thread.

The guy wrote a book and offered it for sale at what he thought was a fair price. Potential buyers can make that decision for themselves, but there is a tone of morality expressing disapproval, if not an accusation of outright fraud, for pricing the book at that level from people who obviously have no intention of even considering the book. It's a free market folks, take it or leave it.

And people are skeptical that the author stands up for his work? What did you expect him to do?

And yes, a lot of people are looking for a mindless silver bullet to success, even at $60. They would not get their money's worth if the book was $5. A book is a tool. You have to learn to be a craftsman with any tool.

Welcome my friends to the show that never ends. :p

thaskalos
09-01-2016, 11:55 PM
If I didn't know better, I would be mystified by this thread.

The guy wrote a book and offered it for sale at what he thought was a fair price. Potential buyers can make that decision for themselves, but there is a tone of morality expressing disapproval, if not an accusation of outright fraud, for pricing the book at that level from people who obviously have no intention of even considering the book. It's a free market folks, take it or leave it.

And people are skeptical that the author stands up for his work? What did you expect him to do?

And yes, a lot of people are looking for a mindless silver bullet to success, even at $60. They would not get their money's worth if the book was $5. A book is a tool. You have to learn to be a craftsman with any tool.

Welcome my friends to the show that never ends. :p
Where?

whodoyoulike
09-02-2016, 12:12 AM
... One thing that I personally believe is that most handicapper factors are vastly overrated. Even watching races is overrated. I watch races because I love watching the horse I bet on run, but I've known quite a few "trip handicappers" who bet on slow horses and get into terrible slumps. Pedigree, earnings per start, and most other handicapping factors are all almost insignificant compared to the only thing that's truly reliable. Time. And not just final time. The fractions are just as important.

I've been saying this from the very beginning. We may have similar philosophies.

Your price is at the high range which I'd consider for a book. But, it's been years since I've purchased a book and factoring in inflation I'm going to consider it only after I've seen similar info which DeltaLover has mentioned because that's also the way I decide on handicapping books.

Good luck.

PaceAdvantage
09-02-2016, 12:40 AM
Listen, I like pandy, and he didn't start this thread, but it has evolved to a point where I have to shut it down...it's not fair to my paying advertisers...