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View Full Version : What constitutes a good Trainer? -- and why?


TheOracle
08-31-2016, 12:26 AM
What is the mark of a good Trainer is it wins, purses, titles?

I have often wondered what are the characteristics of a Trainer that people want to see whether it is wins, earnings or just the treatment of the animals.

What are some of the most important things that make up a good Trainer?

Let me know what you think.

EMD4ME
08-31-2016, 12:54 AM
What is the mark of a good Trainer is it wins, purses, titles?

I have often wondered what are the characteristics of a Trainer that people want to see whether it is wins, earnings or just the treatment of the animals.

What are some of the most important things that make up a good Trainer?

Let me know what you think.

I love trainers with nice initials, like, C C Brown :)

On a more serious note. I like ALL trainers. Especially ones where I can identify their patterns, their strengths, their weaknesses and their go to moves.

I don't like trainers who move horses up ridiculously (30 beyer points with no visible reason) as I will stay away from races of that nature for the most part.

I like big name trainers that lose, as it creates value. I love formulator and the way I can specifically look at a trainers entire barn for specific patterns, trends, etc.

What I like the most is when TheOracle points out that C C Brown 8th time starters, that use jockeys with last names starting with an R, S, or T AND run on Wednesdays with a ML of 8/5 or 9/5 are 3 for their last 4 with a 2.10 ROI!!!!

I can see that the 18 horses C C Brown entered last saturday have you fuming a bit so to answer your question: I think the top trainer is the one that gets the most out of their horses WITHOUT JUICING THEM.

Sorry for the curving RANT :)

Keep up the good work Oracle!

VigorsTheGrey
08-31-2016, 01:15 AM
I love formulator and the way I can specifically look at a trainers entire barn for specific patterns, trends, etc.



How do you do that using formulator...I don't know anything about formulator but have always wanted to know the complete roster of horses for each trainer...

EMD4ME
08-31-2016, 01:19 AM
How do you do that using formulator...I don't know anything about formulator but have always wanted to know the complete roster of horses for each trainer...

You do a "query". You can pull up every single starter that a trainer has had in the last 5 years. Then filter in so many different ways. Good stuff

Lemon Drop Husker
08-31-2016, 01:56 AM
You do a "query". You can pull up every single starter that a trainer has had in the last 5 years. Then filter in so many different ways. Good stuff

Honest question.

Why would I want to know what a trainer did last year, much less 5 years ago?

Especially at meets like Toga, Del Mar, and Keeneland.

Elliott Sidewater
08-31-2016, 03:19 AM
Intelligence and experience, in that order

thaskalos
08-31-2016, 03:35 AM
Intelligence and experience, in that order

Now...if only we could get a trainer to admit that he/she is unintelligent and inexperienced. :)

lamboguy
08-31-2016, 07:13 AM
for a great trainer all you need to know is LOUIS RUBERTO

EMD4ME
08-31-2016, 07:26 AM
Honest question.

Why would I want to know what a trainer did last year, much less 5 years ago?

Especially at meets like Toga, Del Mar, and Keeneland.

The 5 year database gives you a solid sample size. 1 trainer might be 20% at kee with FTS 2 year olds but 0/47 with 2 year old FTS at the spa.

For me knowing that Jane dough is a 15% trainer with First time starting 2 year olds is not enough. I want track specific stats.

Just 1 example , many more but time to go to work :bang:

AltonKelsey
08-31-2016, 01:49 PM
The 5 year database gives you a solid sample size. 1 trainer might be 20% at kee with FTS 2 year olds but 0/47 with 2 year old FTS at the spa.

For me knowing that Jane dough is a 15% trainer with First time starting 2 year olds is not enough. I want track specific stats.

Just 1 example , many more but time to go to work :bang:

Any theory as to why stats like that would vary so much? Time of year? Random? Deliberate?

green80
08-31-2016, 01:58 PM
What is the mark of a good Trainer is it wins, purses, titles?

I have often wondered what are the characteristics of a Trainer that people want to see whether it is wins, earnings or just the treatment of the animals.

What are some of the most important things that make up a good Trainer?

Let me know what you think.

How a trainer is ranked, if it's wins, purses, etc, is dependent on the horses that he has. You can have a good trainer that knows how to train and take care of his horses, but if he has some cheap stock he will never be up there in earnings. An average trainer with good horses will. My point is when you are trying to rate a trainer look at what he has to work with. Trainers are not miracle workers, they just try to condition their stock to get the most out of it.

AltonKelsey
08-31-2016, 03:04 PM
I've heard that theory bandied about.

By that standard, there are no bad trainers.

Think about it.

It's a bad theory.

betovernetcapper
08-31-2016, 05:51 PM
I start my handicapping process with downloading & printing the HDW trainer stats. I then go through them & using a red pen for positive, pencil for negative and blue ink for neutral try to seperate the wheat from the shaft. Sometime if I'm playing a card in debth I'll use these with formulator.

What I think makes a great trainer is someone who brings some clarity to the race. In today's 4th at DEL Jackie Acksel brought such clarity. Jackie is 0 for 6 off a layoff. 0 for 7 going route to sprint & 8% off a purse drop with an ROI of .19. Jackie is also 1 for 32 at Del with an ROI of .07. Jackies horse had a morning line of 6-1 & I could toos it without a moments hesitation. This is an example of a GREAT trainer, at least for this race. :)

EMD4ME
08-31-2016, 07:52 PM
Any theory as to why stats like that would vary so much? Time of year? Random? Deliberate?
Deliberate, especially if you are looking at 5 years worth of work. Let's say I live near Kee and I'm a trainer. Don't you think I would be better with 2YO FTS at KEE as opposed to Belmont in September? Many times, or 90% of the time, we won't know why, all I know is what and that is enough.

EMD4ME
08-31-2016, 07:55 PM
Honest question.

Why would I want to know what a trainer did last year, much less 5 years ago?

Especially at meets like Toga, Del Mar, and Keeneland.

I learned from the David Litfin way of doing things. Cut out the PPS of every winner of the day. Paste them in a notebook. Compare prior winners of trainers to the entries of those trainers today.

I love that homework. I can't tell you how many times I found a 1st off the claim that had the same pattern as a recent X trainer winner from 2 weeks ago. Usually with same ownership and jock. Trainers are superstitious....patterns do emerge.

green80
08-31-2016, 10:12 PM
I've heard that theory bandied about.

By that standard, there are no bad trainers.

Think about it.

It's a bad theory.

There are bad trainers, like any other profession. And there are trainers that are better than most. That being said, I have seen good horses overcome bad training and win anyway. I have seen good trainers with weak stock struggle to win.

Big Peps
09-01-2016, 09:10 AM
There are bad trainers, like any other profession. And there are trainers that are better than most. That being said, I have seen good horses overcome bad training and win anyway. I have seen good trainers with weak stock struggle to win.

Agreed, there are trainers that I like to bet, there are also trainers that I really like that I don't bet much.

Choosing trainers to train horses that you own is completely different ball game, all depends what you want to get out of it.

whodoyoulike
09-01-2016, 11:03 PM
What is the mark of a good Trainer is it wins, purses, titles?

I have often wondered what are the characteristics of a Trainer that people want to see whether it is wins, earnings or just the treatment of the animals.

What are some of the most important things that make up a good Trainer?

Let me know what you think.

I was really hoping this would go as you expected.

Or, maybe it did.

Nice try though.