Rules vioaltion or poor sportsmanship or neither

[showonly]

I was scouring the Saratoga race 10 tote board on Saturday for a potential overlay. A very attentive couple sat next to me equally interested in the Saratoga race. Apparently my cold stare at the monitor piqued the lady's interest in sharing the moment. At that point she overcame her inhibitions and uttered one of my race track favorites. "which one do you like' she said. I turned to her with my Charles Manson like eyes and smile to match and said " I haven't decided ma"am how about yourself". She was quick to show me a $5 win bet on each of the longest shots in the race. It was at this point that my incredible obsession, addiction, urge as a now it all could not be contained. With the concise manner of a newly elected Filipino dictator er President I orated "the 4 horse will not be trying to win" A quizzical look appeared on both their faces. Reminiscent of a look I gave to a close friend when he asked the server if they had apple juice to wash down his share of our pepperoni pie. I quickly explained that Inordinate and Flintshire were owned and trained by like parties and that It had been proffered that Inordinate may incorporate a racing strategy that may hinder his and other of the opponents of Flintshire's chances. As if a defense litigator of 20years she responded :

Where do you get that information?

Don't the people betting expect them to race in their own interest not to the benefit of another entry?

What level of aid or obstacle (other than quickening the early pace) to other horses(what about 3 horses with like interest) is permitted?

In this situation can riders and connections discuss and use collaborative tactics to enhance the chances of one the entrants?

I personally believe that the rabbit aspect is defensible. It would be however disingenuous but could always be claimed that the designated "rabbit" entrant was thought to be the second coming of DR. Fager

I do also believe that a line may have been crossed in Sword Dancer. Instructions to riders that create a riding team during the race is a can of worms. It takes the question from one of sportsmanship into what may be a rules violation or require that a rule be written to deal with potential negative scenarios.

Had the jostling of Roman Approval and jockey Florent Geroux by Aaron Gryder and his mount Inordinate led to a mishap. This would be a major topic.

[betovernetcapper]

LOL
Beautifully written post.
Yes as a matter of strategy it's the trainer's job to win the race & if that takes a rabbit, OK you use one. If it takes titanium shoes held on with super glue instead of nails to save another pound on the horse's legs you do that too.
It is poor sportsmanship, but in the case of Flintshire in his last race with 3 horses it appeared that the other three jockeys were doing EVERYTHING in their power to prevent him from getting a decent trip. Perhaps that's an incorrect assumption but visually seemed that way. In that case despite being boxed in for most of the race, he managed to overcome it & won going away. That is the mark of a very good horse. Nonetheless were I the trainer having watched the poor sportsmanship of the other jockeys I'd feel justified to use a rabbit, just to assure a fair trip.

Great horses have rabbits entered to prevent them from winning, & it gets you on the short list for horse of the year by winning in spite of them.

In a sense it's sort of illegal because under the rules of racing a jockey is supposed to attempt to win the race and or finish with the best possible time. Runnig sucidal fractions to benifet anothor horse, would seem to violate that rule, but given that the last time I heard this rule mentiononed was in a book by Tom Ainsle, maybe it's just an anacrnisim. :)

[Fager Fan]

The woman was robbed of her money. They should've been coupled at least. I don't like rabbits. All horses are supposed to be in the race to give their best effort. This race was a clear case of setting a path for the winner.

[OTM Al]

The woman was robbed of her money. They should've been coupled at least. I don't like rabbits. All horses are supposed to be in the race to give their best effort. This race was a clear case of setting a path for the winner.
And here it goes round and round. We don't want coupling because we want to have more betting interests. Then we do when this happens. Neither way is ever going to work perfectly.

[Fager Fan]

And here it goes round and round. We don't want coupling because we want to have more betting interests. Then we do when this happens. Neither way is ever going to work perfectly.

I've never supported uncoupling except for the Derby or other race where a horse earns his way in or was invited (assuming no track will invite the rabbit).

[OTM Al]

I've never supported uncoupling except for the Derby or other race where a horse earns his way in or was invited (assuming no track will invite the rabbit).
Why should the Derby or invitationals be any different? This could still happen.

[camourous]

I've never supported uncoupling except for the Derby or other race where a horse earns his way in or was invited (assuming no track will invite the rabbit).


The race in question is called the Sword Dancer Invitational.

[OTM Al]

The race in question is called the Sword Dancer Invitational.
In fairness it hasn't been an invitational in a while

[Fager Fan]

The race in question is called the Sword Dancer Invitational.

Are we sure it's still an invitational? It doesn't say so on the chart. Were the rabbit and Applicator really invited? Were they dregging the bottom of the barrel?

I was speaking of in a perfect world where all the invitees are invited on merit (I said that in parentheses). Maybe I should reconsider if we can't have that perfect world and an owner can get his rabbit invited.

[MONEY]

I can't remember which races or horses, but I do know that horses entered as rabbits win sometimes.

[camourous]

Are we sure it's still an invitational? It doesn't say so on the chart. Were the rabbit and Applicator really invited? Were they dregging the bottom of the barrel?

I was speaking of in a perfect world where all the invitees are invited on merit (I said that in parentheses). Maybe I should reconsider if we can't have that perfect world and an owner can get his rabbit invited.


yea it's not a invitational anymore, it's still called it, but it stopped being one in 2003.

Funny thing is the other Chad Brown horse is a one run closer who he put in to be the rabbit, normally you at least find a horse who actually has a little speed to go in the race.

[Fager Fan]

yea it's not a invitational anymore, it's still called it, but it stopped being one in 2003.

Funny thing is the other Chad Brown horse is a one run closer who he put in to be the rabbit, normally you at least find a horse who actually has a little speed to go in the race.

Was he to be a rabbit? I thought he was just tossing at the wall to see if it sticks.

[green80]

I can't remember which races or horses, but I do know that horses entered as rabbits win sometimes.

Exactly, if no one goes after the rabbit, the rabbit has a shot to win. How many times have you seen the lone speed wire a race?

As much as it cost to run a horse, the connections very rarely enter a horse that they think has "no chance" to win the race or at least get a share of the purse. In stakes races it could cost thousands of dollars to run. Why would anyone enter that thinks they have no shot?

[ReplayRandall]

Exactly, if no one goes after the rabbit, the rabbit has a shot to win. How many times have you seen the lone speed wire a race?

You've asked an important question here. Here's another: What is the % of wire to wire winners in US dirt and US turf racing? Breaking into subsets of distance and class for each surface, you'll find what to bet, and the odds needed to profit.

[betovernetcapper]

Found this old article on rabbits from the NY Times (all the news that's fit to print). Interesting read

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/14/sports/on-horse-racing-run-rabbit-run-but-may-the-great-horse-win.html

[cj]

Exactly, if no one goes after the rabbit, the rabbit has a shot to win. How many times have you seen the lone speed wire a race?

As much as it cost to run a horse, the connections very rarely enter a horse that they think has "no chance" to win the race or at least get a share of the purse. In stakes races it could cost thousands of dollars to run. Why would anyone enter that thinks they have no shot?

You really think the two rabbits on Saturday had a chance to win? Come I on.

[cj]

You've asked an important question here. Here's another: What is the % of wire to wire winners in US dirt and US turf racing? Breaking into subsets of distance and class for each surface, you'll find what to bet, and the odds needed to profit.

Only if you are really really good at predicting the leader, particularly the ones at bigger odds that haven't shown much speed.

[ReplayRandall]

Only if you are really really good at predicting the leader, particularly the ones at bigger odds that haven't shown much speed.

I really really like cashing big, so it's worth the trouble and hard work...;)

[BMustang]

Knowledge is power.

How often in MSW races do we here folks betting Saratoga "liking" first time starters trained by D Wayne Lukas, Nick Zito, Ian WIlkes, Bill Mott, Gary Contessa and others who traditionally do not try to win with their firsters, but give them a positive experience.

Occasionally horses trained by these trainers will clunk up and win. A Ian Wilkes trainee did earlier in the meet. Wilkes was probably the most unprepared person in the house to be in the winners circle, but it happens.

98% of the other times, it doesn't.

There are two occasions that come to mind where Mott and Contessa did try with firsters. Contessa the final day of the 2014 meet, and Mott opening day of the 2016 meet. I still haven't forgiven either of them.

That's why I like playing "baby races" you get 20% automatic throw outs prior to handicapping the rest of the field.

[therussmeister]

Exactly, if no one goes after the rabbit, the rabbit has a shot to win. How many times have you seen the lone speed wire a race?

As much as it cost to run a horse, the connections very rarely enter a horse that they think has "no chance" to win the race or at least get a share of the purse. In stakes races it could cost thousands of dollars to run. Why would anyone enter that thinks they have no shot?
Chad Brown's rabbit got a $40,000 payday for finishing fifth. If he would have finished last, it still would have been worth $25,000.