Trakus and the King's Bishop

[cj]

The ground measurements look very suspect. Economic Model listed as traveling 55 feet further than the winner? That one isn't the only shaky one.

https://www.nyra.com/saratoga/racing/trakus

[SuperPickle]

The ground measurements look very suspect. Economic Model listed as traveling 55 feet further than the winner? That one isn't the only shaky one.

https://www.nyra.com/saratoga/racing/trakus

So the winner broke from the outside and went straight to the pine. Economic Model broke from the pine and stayed there until the stretch and angled out to the center of the track.

I'm not seeing the 55 feet.

[cj]

The concept of Trakus is great. The actual data is not so great.

[Tom]

That sounds like eating at Denny's!

[thespaah]

The ground measurements look very suspect. Economic Model listed as traveling 55 feet further than the winner? That one isn't the only shaky one.

https://www.nyra.com/saratoga/racing/trakus
If you view the overhead movie, you can see there were three horses that were "left at the gate"....Suddenly, they appear to rapidly move forward to join with the field. I think this is where the glitch is...
Another thing. The trakus timer has the leader running the first panel in 22.95, at 14.5 ft off rail. the :1: Economic Model in 23.33 at 8.5 feet off rail..here's the glitch. Trakus had Drefong running the 1st Q at 39.5 mph.....Economic Model at 40.5 mph.....Now, how it is possible for a horse to run slower in avg mph but get to a fixed point 4/10ths of a second faster?....Obviously there was some kind of interference with the chip transmitter or the receiving equipment had a momentary outage or other malady.
Nothing is perfect. I maintain that Traukus is still the most advanced and ideal technology to time horse races.....

[cj]

If you view the overhead movie, you can see there were three horses that were "left at the gate"....Suddenly, they appear to rapidly move forward to join with the field. I think this is where the glitch is...
Another thing. The trakus timer has the leader running the first panel in 22.95, at 14.5 ft off rail. the :1: Economic Model in 23.33 at 8.5 feet off rail..here's the glitch. Trakus had Drefong running the 1st Q at 39.5 mph.....Economic Model at 40.5 mph.....Now, how it is possible for a horse to run slower in avg mph but get to a fixed point 4/10ths of a second faster?....Obviously there was some kind of interference with the chip transmitter or the receiving equipment had a momentary outage or other malady.
Nothing is perfect. I maintain that Traukus is still the most advanced and ideal technology to time horse races.....


Nothing is perfect, but these are some pretty darn big errors. And, they don't get fixed.

[Tom]

I maintain that Traukus is still the most advanced and ideal technology to time horse races.....

It is great, as long as accuracy is not important to you. :D

[thespaah]

Nothing is perfect, but these are some pretty darn big errors. And, they don't get fixed.
How would they be "fixed"?
Are you asking for "a fix"? A means whereby the system can be made fool proof? Or an adjustment of the errors seen for a particular race?

[cj]

How would they be "fixed"?
Are you asking for "a fix"? A means whereby the system can be made fool proof? Or an adjustment of the errors seen for a particular race?

Blatant errors corrected, or at the least, removed.

[thespaah]

I

It is great, as long as accuracy is not important to you. :D
ok, Mr Cynic....
Trakus is just a pile of non working microchips and crummy electronic equipment. Scrap it. And have nothing.....After all, it NEVER works.

[Zaf]

I

It is great, as long as accuracy is not important to you. :D

Cmon racing is always on the cutting edge of technology, especially the tote system :rolleyes:

Z

[pele polo]

Trakus is something we can all live without. As if there aren't enough factors without this erroneous and needless info. Just watch replays like you're supposed to.

[AltonKelsey]

I resent the fact that they don't make the data downloadable for mere mortals more than the errors

[Cratos]

The ground measurements look very suspect. Economic Model listed as traveling 55 feet further than the winner? That one isn't the only shaky one.

https://www.nyra.com/saratoga/racing/trakus
Economic Model loss distance (58 feet) to Drefong in the first quarter and never regain it; and to mathematically define this dynamic, Trakus uses vector analysis and measures the horse’s travel at the point the secant approaches the tangent to the race curve.

This is the derivative which is the slope of the line tangent to a point on the race curve.

I don’t see the problem with the measurement if the Trakus RFID chips are not faulty.

[classhandicapper]

I use Trakus to supplement all my trip and bias analysis at multiple tracks. I see subtle inconsistencies from track to track and distance to distance on top of the occasional bigger glitches. But even with the warts, it's a helpful for the type of analysis I am doing. I look at the Trakus data while watching the replays. It saves me a ton of time. I just override it when I think it's clearly wrong.

[cj]

Economic Model loss distance (58 feet) to Drefong in the first quarter and never regain it; and to mathematically define this dynamic, Trakus uses vector analysis and measures the horse’s travel at the point the secant approaches the tangent to the race curve.

This is the derivative which is the slope of the line tangent to a point on the race curve.

I don’t see the problem with the measurement if the Trakus RFID chips are not faulty.

There is a zero percent chance the 1 traveled 55 feet more than the winner did in the opening quarter mile...a straightaway no less. There was clearly a malfunction. Sorry you can't see that through your Trakus colored glasses.

Mistakes happen. The problem for me is that there is no QC. Mistakes remain there unless a user takes the time to write or call them.

[AltonKelsey]

Instead of the gobbledygook , why doesn't Cratos do the math and show us the numbers.

[Saratoga_Mike]

If you view the overhead movie, you can see there were three horses that were "left at the gate"....Suddenly, they appear to rapidly move forward to join with the field. I think this is where the glitch is...
Another thing. The trakus timer has the leader running the first panel in 22.95, at 14.5 ft off rail. the :1: Economic Model in 23.33 at 8.5 feet off rail..here's the glitch. Trakus had Drefong running the 1st Q at 39.5 mph.....Economic Model at 40.5 mph.....Now, how it is possible for a horse to run slower in avg mph but get to a fixed point 4/10ths of a second faster?....Obviously there was some kind of interference with the chip transmitter or the receiving equipment had a momentary outage or other malady.
Nothing is perfect. I maintain that Traukus is still the most advanced and ideal technology to time horse races.....

I watched the Trakus overhead view as you suggested (good tip). The 1, 3 and 5 all left the gate late (they just stand there, while others are running), according to the Trakus "aerial view" depiction of the first quarter. As a result, the first-quarter and full-race-distance traveled results are wrong for all three horses.

Cratos might want to watch Trakus's visual representation of the first quarter before presenting ridiculous math to justify what did NOT happen on the track. CJ is right. The guy doesn't miss too much!

[Cratos]

Instead of the gobbledygook , why doesn't Cratos do the math and show us the numbers.
Here is the math and I don’t know if Trakus RFID tags malfunctioned or not in the race with Economic model, but what I do know is that over a 1320 feet distance (the length of 1/4M) a .53”/foot disparity will yield an accumulation of approximately 58 feet.

The calculation:

12(length of a foot in inches) * 58 (# of feet of disparity) = 696/1320(length of 1/4M) =.527”

Furthermore, the straightaway on a racetrack is not a “straight line”, it is a curved surface in two directions from the center.

Trakus is measuring the horse’s velocity with displacement from point to point beginning with the starting line; this is tangent vector measurement.

It is important to understand that in a horse race, the horse is accelerating because it is changing its velocity and acceleration is a vector quantity.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The chips/or readers malfunctioned. Watch Trakus's own aerial representation of the race. Like any technology, it doesn't always work. That doesn't mean it's a bad technology. Keep digging in.

[cj]

The chips/or readers malfunctioned. Watch Trakus's own aerial representation of the race. Like any technology, it doesn't always work. That doesn't mean it's a bad technology. Keep digging in.

He can't ever admit Trakus makes mistakes.

[Cratos]

He can't ever admit Trakus makes mistakes.
And do you believe that the legacy timing technology of Equibase/DRF is better or even equivalent?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I don’t see the problem with the measurement if the Trakus RFID chips are not faulty.

Trakus does not employ RFID. Perhaps you're using the term very loosely, not sure.

http://www.trakus.com/press-pdf/trakus_FAQ.pdf

[Saratoga_Mike]

He can't ever admit Trakus makes mistakes.

Trakus's own COO admits the technology isn't perfect (second half of the article).

http://www.drf.com/news/timing-everything-correctly-timing-race-more-complicated-it-looks

Cratos - please note the gentleman has a MSME from RPI, so your type of guy.

[cj]

And do you believe that the legacy timing technology of Equibase/DRF is better or even equivalent?

Did I say that? LOLOL. Nobody talks about timing errors more than I do. But right now I'm referring to Trakus. Nice attempt at deflecting though.

[cj]

And do you believe that the legacy timing technology of Equibase/DRF is better or even equivalent?

And, for the record, Equibase and DRF do not time races. They report times. The job of timing is contracted out. Some use Trakus as the official timer. It is better in some places, not in some others like Woodbine turf races.