Colin Kaepernick

[RunForTheRoses]

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-release-statement-after-kaepernick-sits-during-national-anthem?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color," Kaepernick said. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

[Marshall Bennett]

And we should shut the country down and fix it. Oppression is dead and over with. Its the 21st century, anyone can be oppressed now, but its mostly their on doing.
Liberals regardless of color will always use oppression as some sort of excuse to get attention or fill an agenda. Just like they use the race card and a number of other tactics. It is what it is, black and white.

[PhantomOnTour]

So he sat down during the National Anthem - he's just warming up for the regular season - getting that "bench body' in shape, cuz that's where he's gonna be.

Bye Felicia, you're time came and went 2yrs ago

[Greyfox]

There's a time and a place to make a statement.
This wasn't it.
I'd can him.
Let him go play in a country that he's proud of.
As a fan, I don't want that kind of player representing my team or city.

[Clocker]

There's a time and a place to make a statement.
This wasn't it.


Apparently he wants to be traded. That little stunt will no doubt increase the Niner's willingness to trade him, but it isn't going to increase his marketability.

He's supposed to be a professional, getting paid to do a job. Do your job, and then you can go march in Black Lives Matter protests on your day off.

[johnhannibalsmith]

You go girl.

[thaskalos]

The 49ers are the ones who pay him...and they apparently recognize that Kaepernick is entitled to his "freedom of expression". If his bosses see nothing wrong with this...then I see nothing wrong with it either.

[Greyfox]

The 49ers are the ones who pay him...and they apparently recognize that Kaepernick is entitled to his "freedom of expression". If his bosses see nothing wrong with this...then I see nothing wrong with it either.

Yes. He has freedom of expression.
But I'm not paying good money to watch that crap.
If I already had a season ticket, I'd be asking for my money back.
Fans should vote on this matter with their feet and refuse to go to 49 er games if he's going to do that.

[thaskalos]

Yes. He has freedom of expression.
But I'm not paying good money to watch that crap.
If I already had a season ticket, I'd be asking for my money back.
Fans should vote on this matter with their feet and refuse to go to 49 er games if he's going to do that.

Yes...he has the right to sit on the bench during the national anthem...and you have the right to return your Niner tickets for a refund. Equal rights for all. :ThmbUp:

[Valuist]

The 49ers are the ones who pay him...and they apparently recognize that Kaepernick is entitled to his "freedom of expression". If his bosses see nothing wrong with this...then I see nothing wrong with it either.

And the 49ers are the ones who look really bad. Kaepernick is just a dumbass who doesn't know any better (remember Mahmoud Abdul Rauf?); for the 49er organization to put out a statement defending him, it showed they are both clueless and classless. This crap could only fly in the Bay area. And with an awful product, the 49er organization doesn't need to burn more bridges.

[ReplayRandall]

And the 49ers are the ones who look really bad. Kaepernick is just a dumbass who doesn't know any better (remember Mahmoud Abdul Rauf?); for the 49er organization to put out a statement defending him, it showed they are both clueless and classless. This crap could only fly in the Bay area. And with an awful product, the 49er organization doesn't need to burn more bridges.

Can't think of an NFL organization that's fallen so horribly as the 49ers, since their Super Bowl appearance in Feb of 2013.....

[thaskalos]

And the 49ers are the ones who look really bad. Kaepernick is just a dumbass who doesn't know any better (remember Mahmoud Abdul Rauf?); for the 49er organization to put out a statement defending him, it showed they are both clueless and classless. This crap could only fly in the Bay area. And with an awful product, the 49er organization doesn't need to burn more bridges.

Yes, I remember Mahmoud Abdul Rauf...and I almost used him as an example here myself. The point that I was trying to make here is that Kaepernick has a boss to whom he has to answer...and that boss isn't us. If his bosses condone this behavior...then I am not about to hold the man up to whatever behavioral standards I deem appropriate for emotionally-charged demonstrations. We all have the freedom to make our own choices in this country...and we sometimes suffer the consequences of those choices.

Whether I agree with Colin Kaepernick or not shouldn't concern him in the least. He needn't answer to me.

[Valuist]

Yes, I remember Mahmoud Abdul Rauf...and I almost used him as an example here myself. The point that I was trying to make here is that Kaepernick has a boss to whom he has to answer...and that boss isn't us. If his bosses condone this behavior...then I am not about to hold the man up to whatever behavioral standards I deem appropriate for emotionally-charged demonstrations. We all have the freedom to make our own choices in this country...and we sometimes suffer the consequences of those choices.

Whether I agree with Colin Kaepernick or not shouldn't concern him in the least. He needn't answer to me.

As long as the 49ers rely on money from the public, be it individuals or corporations, they DO have to answer to the public.

For them to put out a statement rationalizing his actions, it is shameful. They have problems, and this isn't going to help at all. Bad team, bad leadership, bad people.

[Valuist]

Can't think of an NFL organization that's fallen so horribly as the 49ers, since their Super Bowl appearance in Feb of 2013.....

I can't either. NOBODY out here admits to being a 49ers fan. See plenty of Raiders fans, but nobody gives a damn about the Niners.

[thaskalos]

As long as the 49ers rely on money from the public, be it individuals or corporations, they DO have to answer to the public.


When you put it under the microscope...we all rely on the public's money, in one way or another. But we still reserve our freedom of expression in this country. As a semi-professional horseplayer...it could be said that I too "rely on money from the public". So what?

[Clocker]

We all have the freedom to make our own choices in this country...


Including the freedom to hold someone in low esteem for what we may consider to be unseemly behavior.

Where was all of this concern and holier than thou attitude when he was a big star at the top of his game?

[Valuist]

It was Harbaugh's decision to keep Kaepernick and jettison Alex Smith. Definitely was the wrong decision. And at the $100 million plus Kaepernick was signed for, a very expensive mistake. A franchise killer, at least for a few seasons.

[GaryG]

Where was all of this concern and holier than thou attitude when he was a big star at the top of his game?I don't remember any statements like this back then....all he did was sniff his armpits and act like a total jackass.

[Clocker]

I don't remember any statements like this back then....all he did was sniff his armpits and act like a total jackass.

You have more time to contemplate the bigger issues of the world when you are sitting on the bench. :p

[Clocker]

It was Harbaugh's decision to keep Kaepernick and jettison Alex Smith. Definitely was the wrong decision. And at the $100 million plus Kaepernick was signed for, a very expensive mistake. A franchise killer, at least for a few seasons.

I read that he and Elway were talking about Denver trading for him. But Kaepernick didn't want to take a pay cut, and Elway said no to the money and told him that he would be competing for the QB job.

[thaskalos]

You have more time to contemplate the bigger issues of the world when you are sitting on the bench. :p
:ThmbUp:

[magwell]

He's a disgrace and a total asshole, but that's just my opinion.....;)

[Clocker]

Ah, the good old days.

I can’t help remembering, though, the time when Bud Grant decided that his Vikings looked sloppy when the National Anthem was being played. He actually a conducted a practice in how to line up for the Anthem in a proper manner. But those days are rapidly slipping away.

I can't help but imagine how Bud Grant or Vince Lombardi would react to someone like Colin Kaepernick.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/08/back-to-the-bad-old-days.php

[Tom]

Including the freedom to hold someone in low esteem for what we may consider to be unseemly behavior.

Where was all of this concern and holier than thou attitude when he was a big star at the top of his game?

I would be interested to see how much of his bloated salary he donates to fixing those problems. OR he just all mouth and ass?

Just hope for the best of all this - someone will see the opportunity to give him a career-ending hit and put the POS on the bench forever.

The jerk is a classless pig. I just hope they get the hit on video so it can be taped and enjoyed for years to come.

[NorCalGreg]

I'm not sure he thought this all the way through....if he had any endorsements, he can kiss those goodbye.

For the rest of his career, (however long it lasts) he'll be boo'ed unmercifully wherever he goes.

I'll bet his agent had a heart attack hearing about this.

He was a model employee when he was signed from the Univ of Reno--I think since his mentor Harbaugh left, and he has his millions...he's free to make his own career decisions.

If France had a NFL team--they would sign him in a heartbeat :D

[Clocker]

I'm not sure he thought this all the way through....if he had any endorsements, he can kiss those goodbye.



But he has a lock on endorsements for tattoo parlors. :p

[Clocker]

The NFL responds:

“Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem,” the NFL said in a statement issued Saturday, in response to the controversy that emerged when 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick opted not to stand during the playing of the national anthem on Friday night in Santa Clara, prior to a game against the Packers.

Fans are encouraged but not required to attend or watch 49er games. :p

[Clocker]

Lots of rumors on the web, not confirmed by any major news source, that Kaepernick converted to Islam over the off season and that he is engaged to a Black Lives Matter activist.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/27/controversy-erupts-after-nfl-quarterback-converts-to-islam-and-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem/ (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/27/controversy-erupts-after-nfl-quarterback-converts-to-islam-and-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem/)

[chadk66]

there's no cure for douche bag.

[Greyfox]

If I protested a social issue where I worked, I'd have been shown the door quickly.
Chances are you would be too working for most typical employers.
I guess the NFL is not a typical employer.

[Greyfox]

Lots of rumors on the web, not confirmed by any major news source, that Kaepernick converted to Islam over the off season and that he is engaged to a Black Lives Matter activist.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/27/controversy-erupts-after-nfl-quarterback-converts-to-islam-and-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem/ (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/27/controversy-erupts-after-nfl-quarterback-converts-to-islam-and-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem/)

So he's against the oppression of blacks, but in favor of the oppression of women.

[Tor Ekman]

Given his current and foreseeable relevance as a QB, this should be given all of the attention as if one of the peanut vendors at Levi's Stadium said he wasn't going to take off his hat and stand still for the Anthem.

Was it Jaworski who proclaimed this guy to be the greatest QB ever? :lol:

[woodtoo]

Back in Sept. 2014 Colin was fined $11,000 for using the N word during a scuffle with Lamar Houston in a game against Chicago Bears.

[thaskalos]

Back in Sept. 2014 Colin was fined $11,000 for using the N word during a scuffle with Lamar Houston in a game against Chicago Bears.
How DARE he use words like that on a football field. :ThmbDown:

[GaryG]

In the PC world that we live in there are harsher penalties for words than actions. International soccer is the worst of all. If I wanted to call someone a bleeping bleeper I would hold my tongue, bust him in the mouth and get a lighter penalty. Racial insensitivity is a more serious crime than assault these days.

[barahona44]

If I protested a social issue where I worked, I'd have been shown the door quickly.
Chances are you would be too working for most typical employers.
I guess the NFL is not a typical employer.
Let's start with the fact they pay many of their employees a six and seven figure salary and bonus right out of college.

[Hank]

$61,000,000 guaranteed :lol: :lol: :lol:


Colin Kaepernick EMBED THIS NEW
QUARTERBACK
Age: 28
Exp: 5 Years
Drafted: Round 2 (#36 overall), 2011
College: Nevada
Agent(s): XAM Sports



Contract Details
Cash Earnings
Fines & Suspensions
Stats & ValuationNEW
CURRENT CONTRACT

Colin Kaepernick signed a 6 year, $114,000,000 contract with the San Francisco 49ers, including a $12,328,766 signing bonus, $61,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $19,000,000. In 2016, Kaepernick will earn a base salary of $11,900,000, a roster bonus of $2,000,000 and a workout bonus of $400,000. Kaepernick has a cap hit of $15,890,753 while his dead money value is $19,697,260.

[Clocker]

Colin Kaepernick signed a 6 year, $114,000,000 contract with the San Francisco 49ers, including a $12,328,766 signing bonus,, and an average annual salary of $19,000,000. In 2016, Kaepernick will earn a base salary of $11,900,000, a roster bonus of $2,000,000 and a workout bonus of $400,000. Kaepernick has a cap hit of $15,890,753 while his dead money value is $19,697,260.

The point being that money trumps common sense and rational thought?

[Greyfox]

Let's start with the fact they pay many of their employees a six and seven figure salary and bonus right out of college.

Yes. :ThmbUp:
That being said, the the NFL fears that firing this creep may catalyze other black players to emulate his belligerence.
Money talks.
The NFL realizes that punishing Kaepernick can light a fire with other players.
So that organization is in a bind.
They had not anticipated this type of behavior.
But not addressing the issue is not the answer either to his behavior and subsequent comments.
His behavior is "unbecoming of the type of professional athlete" that fans pay to see with their hard earned dollars as they attend games.
A reprimand, a suspension of salary, or even saying bye to this ingrate is in order.
If this type of behavior isn't nipped in the bud now, what can we expect the NFL to permit down the road?
Kapernick has distinctively lessened himself, his team, his organization, and probably his cause by making a symbolic statement of bitterness in a situation that he was being paid good money for.
Seldom, if ever, should Professional Sports of any kind tolerate this type of insult to America.
But money talks.
The NFL fears disciplinary action will provoke other blacks to sit with Kaepernick.
That is a reasonable fear.
But a principled league, not based on money, would be prepared to suffer that fate.
The likelihood of the scenario where the league would ever stand up and be prepared to dismiss these types of protesters is very very low.
Yet, where you and I work, we'd likely be shown the door immediately for any type of social protest behavior.
With good reason, in my opinion.

[thaskalos]

I must say that I was surprised to read that the professional athletes are "encouraged", but not REQUIRED, to stand for the national anthem. That seems strange to me.

[Robert Fischer]

The NFL is a vehicle to drive corporate and media revenue.

Kaepernick isn't paid millions to play a game, he's paid for his part in that revenue vehicle.

Protesting the ceremonial propaganda, and the system itself, is bad for business.

Kaepernick will have to be made an example. He will be blackballed.

[MutuelClerk]

This entire thing is silly. I disagree with Kaepernick but defend his right to say it. Some people judge people and or nations when they are at their worst. That's fine, I just hope he consistent in all things he believes in and eventually becomes as sour as the rest of us.

[delayjf]

$61,000,000 guaranteed

Perhaps not, according the article below:

Whereas original reports had Kaepernick collecting $61 million in guarantees, the truth is his $12.3 million signing bonus, $100,000 workout bonus and $645,000 base salary for 2014 are the only fully guaranteed portions of the contract.

The 49ers can move on without major repercussions if Kaepernick's career takes a surprising turn for the worse.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000356255/article/colin-kaepernicks-49ers-contract-is-teamfriendly-deal

[barahona44]

I must say that I was surprised to read that the professional athletes are "encouraged", but not REQUIRED, to stand for the national anthem. That seems strange to me.
Well then he can't be disciplined if it is not strictly against league rules.But there is no requirement for the 49ers to employ him either.It may be best to cut ties with him as SF is rebuilding anyway.

[Tom]

We have not heard from Michelle Obama, a known racist pig, on this yet.

Black kid gets taken in by White couple and raised
Black kid gets discovered by White agents and signed
Black kid gets employed by White owners and given generous salary and unlimited opportunity

So now he disrespects our nation and claims oppression.

Are ya proud of the country NOW, bitch?

Someone end his career on the field.....soon.

BTW, NFL is now obvious a racist organization.
The allow this pig to do his schtuick, they allow other players to run onto the field with arms up in a don't shoot mockery of something that never happened, but DENY the Cowboys request to wear a badge on their helmets to honor the 5 cops killed in Texas.

To hell with the NFL.

[ReplayRandall]

As a veteran of our Armed Forces, I have one question for Colin, "What have you sacrificed?".....You have sacrificed nothing, but you may use mine, to fully state your freedom of expression. I ask just one thing from you, "Never forget to acknowledge the VET."

[NJ Stinks]

To hell with the NFL.

You better watch it. You are running out of things to like. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

You better watch it. You are running out of things to like. :rolleyes:

oGmRKWJdwBc

[MargieRose]

We have not heard from Michelle Obama, a known racist pig, on this yet.

Black kid gets taken in by White couple and raised
Black kid gets discovered by White agents and signed
Black kid gets employed by White owners and given generous salary and unlimited opportunity

So now he disrespects our nation and claims oppression.

Are ya proud of the country NOW, bitch?

Someone end his career on the field.....soon.

BTW, NFL is now obvious a racist organization.
The allow this pig to do his schtuick, they allow other players to run onto the field with arms up in a don't shoot mockery of something that never happened, but DENY the Cowboys request to wear a badge on their helmets to honor the 5 cops killed in Texas.

To hell with the NFL.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Clocker]

The allow this pig to do his schtuick, they allow other players to run onto the field with arms up in a don't shoot mockery of something that never happened, but DENY the Cowboys request to wear a badge on their helmets to honor the 5 cops killed in Texas.



They should put American flag decals on the helmets and see what he does then. :p

[johnhannibalsmith]

The guy has about hundred million ways to help make a difference fighting for the cause that he seems to believe in so vehemently when it comes to drawing attention to himself and engaging in symbolic silliness. But, no. Granted, I don't pay much attention to football and barely even know who the guy is, but I haven't read much about how he has actually used his vast resources and position of influence to advance this major problem in the general direction of a solution. Does he really think that this is any kind of help? Compared to what he could conceivably do that might could be productive? Do we really need some knucklehead "raising awareness" about a topic that you couldn't avoid if you went to another solar system? Fine, sit down. But, you might as well shut the **** up while you're there if you of all people can't bring more to the table than the same statements you can hear from 1,000 people a day in cities all across the country. Do something if it means that much to you and no, simply "raising awareness" doesn't count.

[burnsy]

Well. I served just so jerk waters could protest whatever they want to. That's what the flag means. Being a Libertarian I could give a shit. This is the big problem of the day? :lol: Where are we, Nazi Germany? People can do whatever the **** they want as long as its within the law. That's what I sacrificed for. People retaining their right to do whatever pleases them, whether I agree with it or not. Some people just don't get it, the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. As soon as someone does something that people don't like......there's a hypocritical outrage. Who really gives a shit? Would people rather have the "thought police"?? He's not the problem, the piss ants with their noses up everyone's else's ass are. Boo hoo, its the end of the world. When the country walks lock step in agreement, like robots, goose necking the camera, like some want.....its truly over for us. That's what that flag stands for, doing whatever the hell you want legally, whether others like it or not. People are so reactionary and dumb, that goes right over their pee sized brains. It doesn't matter who served or not....its called freedom. That's what we are supposed to protect, in agreement or disagreement.

[Clocker]

Do we really need some knucklehead "raising awareness" about a topic that you couldn't avoid if you went to another solar system? Fine, sit down. But, you might as well shut the **** up while you're there if you of all people can't bring more to the table than the same statements you can hear from 1,000 people a day in cities all across the country. Do something if it means that much to you and no, simply "raising awareness" doesn't count.

Asked about his problems with the country, he specifically talked about cops killing blacks. Rumor has it that he was recently engaged to a woman who is big in the Black Lives Matter movement. He was drafted by the 49ers in 2011, and now all of a sudden he is a political activist? Some guys will do anything to get laid. :p

And there is no evidence in the media of any activism on his part other than this big public stunt that came out of nowhere.

Those who defend his right of free speech for this should consider the fact that he is making a blanket condemnation of the entire country based on a tiny minority of cops shooting blacks, most of which were found to be justified. The right to free speech doesn't include the right to slander millions of good people.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Well, I don't consider myself slandered and don't really care if he stands or sits or lays down sideways. But, I can't take him seriously or view it as any kind of great noble gesture or some kind of powerful civil disobedience when it rings so hollow. He has succeeded in bringing attention to himself. Big deal. That makes him a Kardashian. If you are going to attract attention as a known figure with something to lose, attract it to a solution, a goal, a charity, and endeavor, something that makes it worth the effort so there is possibly something to gain also. Otherwise you are just attracting attention for the sake of attracting attention. And in this case, probably to nobody's benefit whatsoever.

[OTM Al]

Well. I served just so jerk waters could protest whatever they want to. That's what the flag means. Being a Libertarian I could give a shit. This is the big problem of the day? :lol: Where are we, Nazi Germany? People can do whatever the **** they want as long as its within the law. That's what I sacrificed for. People retaining their right to do whatever pleases them, whether I agree with it or not. Some people just don't get it, the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. As soon as someone does something that people don't like......there's a hypocritical outrage. Who really gives a shit? Would people rather have the "thought police"?? He's not the problem, the piss ants with their noses up everyone's else's ass are. Boo hoo, its the end of the world. When the country walks lock step in agreement, like robots, goose necking the camera, like some want.....its truly over for us. That's what that flag stands for, doing whatever the hell you want legally, whether others like it or not. People are so reactionary and dumb, that goes right over their pee sized brains. It doesn't matter who served or not....its called freedom. That's what we are supposed to protect, in agreement or disagreement.

Yep. That's real patriotism. Don't need a flag or a song about a battle in a war that never should have been fought, sung to the tune of an English drinking song to prove it. Being forced to comply to ceremony is not freedom, it is state sponsored religion, which i want nothing of.

[AndyC]

Well. I served just so jerk waters could protest whatever they want to. That's what the flag means. Being a Libertarian I could give a shit. This is the big problem of the day? :lol: Where are we, Nazi Germany? People can do whatever the **** they want as long as its within the law. That's what I sacrificed for. People retaining their right to do whatever pleases them, whether I agree with it or not. Some people just don't get it, the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. As soon as someone does something that people don't like......there's a hypocritical outrage. Who really gives a shit? Would people rather have the "thought police"?? He's not the problem, the piss ants with their noses up everyone's else's ass are. Boo hoo, its the end of the world. When the country walks lock step in agreement, like robots, goose necking the camera, like some want.....its truly over for us. That's what that flag stands for, doing whatever the hell you want legally, whether others like it or not. People are so reactionary and dumb, that goes right over their pee sized brains. It doesn't matter who served or not....its called freedom. That's what we are supposed to protect, in agreement or disagreement.

I don't think anybody is arguing that he didn't/doesn't have the right to do what he did. We are just exercising our right to call him a moron. Exercising one's rights are not free from consequences.

[ReplayRandall]

It doesn't matter who served or not....its called freedom. That's what we are supposed to protect, in agreement or disagreement.

It does matter that SOMEONE serves, or there's NO freedom.

[Robert Fischer]

Well. I served just so jerk waters could protest whatever they want to. That's what the flag means. Being a Libertarian I could give a shit. This is the big problem of the day? :lol: Where are we, Nazi Germany? People can do whatever the **** they want as long as its within the law. That's what I sacrificed for. People retaining their right to do whatever pleases them, whether I agree with it or not. Some people just don't get it, the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. As soon as someone does something that people don't like......there's a hypocritical outrage. Who really gives a shit? Would people rather have the "thought police"?? He's not the problem, the piss ants with their noses up everyone's else's ass are. Boo hoo, its the end of the world. When the country walks lock step in agreement, like robots, goose necking the camera, like some want.....its truly over for us. That's what that flag stands for, doing whatever the hell you want legally, whether others like it or not. People are so reactionary and dumb, that goes right over their pee sized brains. It doesn't matter who served or not....its called freedom. That's what we are supposed to protect, in agreement or disagreement.

I think that's great.

the thought police is scary

also scary, and more subtle is 'social proof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof)'

being free to think for your self, and being able to actually do it.


I wrote my comments on Kaepernick in this thread. Those comments actually didn't contain a single personal opinion of mine about his action. They are about how I see this playing out.
Personally? I'm probably more in line with what you have written.

[Greyfox]

I don't think anybody is arguing that he didn't/doesn't have the right to do what he did. We are just exercising our right to call him a moron. Exercising one's rights are not free from consequences.

I don't think that he should have the right to do that in his place of employment.
He can do that elsewhere but not on the public's dime.
People pay to see the game, not protest crap.

[kingfin66]

$61,000,000 guaranteed :lol: :lol: :lol:


Colin Kaepernick EMBED THIS NEW
QUARTERBACK
Age: 28
Exp: 5 Years
Drafted: Round 2 (#36 overall), 2011
College: Nevada
Agent(s): XAM Sports



Contract Details
Cash Earnings
Fines & Suspensions
Stats & ValuationNEW
CURRENT CONTRACT

Colin Kaepernick signed a 6 year, $114,000,000 contract with the San Francisco 49ers, including a $12,328,766 signing bonus,, and an average annual salary of $19,000,000. In 2016, Kaepernick will earn a base salary of $11,900,000, a roster bonus of $2,000,000 and a workout bonus of $400,000. Kaepernick has a cap hit of $15,890,753 while his dead money value is $19,697,260.

I want to be oppressed like that!

[Tom]

His right to express his opinions stops at his responsibility to the people paying his salary. The NFl can allow, but we damn well have the right to condemn them and to boycott their sponsors.

Aside for the fact the guy is a low life POS not worth a thing.
I have no respect for garbage like him. Or pandering bastards like the NFL - who are really nothing but bottom feeders.

[Robert Fischer]

A move like Kaep's hurts the sponsorship picture of the 49ers, but the media can have a field day with it, and hold their own.

The worst thing that CK's actions do is show a fragility in the system.

The people who run the NFL and the Media and the Corporate World are not rookies. They know that they can't have a bunch of players putting politics in front of their paychecks. If that happens they lose some control. The whole revenue system becomes threatened.

This is why Kaepernick has already been blackballed. No more sponsorships, no more featured scenarios, an exit strategy in the works.

His first offer will be to make a concession. Perhaps similar to Abdul Rauf in basketball, after a closed door session, he will agree to Stand, while simply 'lowering his eyes', or some such token gesture.

If he doesn't back down immediately and concede, life will get even tougher. The media will tell us that Kaepernick has lost his passion for the game. That he's unstable. Not of his right mind. A character assassination.

The 49ers will 'move in a new direction'. Whether a release or a trade to another bench role that expedites his exit from the NFL. (I'm no contract expert, and I'm not going to research for this post). New coach Kelly is looking to move in a new direction, Kaepernick has struggled in his role in the system, he 'hasn't been effective', his 'injuries have taken a toll'.

[CincyHorseplayer]

This is why I love our sport. I can see and appreciate everything about the athletes by their performance and they don't have to say a word. I don't pay any attention to all the other athletes when they get a mic put in their face. Life much easier that way! :cool:

[JustRalph]

https://m.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTo miLahren%2Fvideos%2F1063123907114129%2F&show_text=0&width=560

Not sure about posting a Facebook link. But she shreds CK

[chadk66]

he will probably be released and nobody will pick him up

[Valuist]

he will probably be released and nobody will pick him up

Exactly. Nobody needs a distraction. And a distraction that can no longer play? They don't last very long.

[delayjf]

I wonder what the NFL's position would be if instead a white religious conservative spoke out against homosexuality. I wonder if they would apply the same freedom of speak standard for the white Christians that they do for the black Muslim.

[Greyfox]

https://m.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTo miLahren%2Fvideos%2F1063123907114129%2F&show_text=0&width=560

Not sure about posting a Facebook link. But she shreds CK

Good stuff. :ThmbUp:
She's a fireball.

[Clocker]

I wonder what the NFL's position would be if instead a white religious conservative spoke out against homosexuality. I wonder if they would apply the same freedom of speak standard for the white Christians that they do for the black Muslim.

What was the media attitude about Tim Tebow exercising his rights?

Or the high school football coach who was fired for praying on the field after a game?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865660124/Fired-for-praying-on-field-football-coach-sues.html?pg=all (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865660124/Fired-for-praying-on-field-football-coach-sues.html?pg=all)

[chadk66]

I wonder what the NFL's position would be if instead a white religious conservative spoke out against homosexuality. I wonder if they would apply the same freedom of speak standard for the white Christians that they do for the black Muslim.they did. Look at Tim Tebow

[chadk66]

He needs to be placed on the No Fly List it appears.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/08/30/kaepernick-social-media-posts-laud-black-lives-matter-black-panthers-since-dating-activist-dj.html

[barahona44]

I wonder what the NFL's position would be if instead a white religious conservative spoke out against homosexuality. I wonder if they would apply the same freedom of speak standard for the white Christians that they do for the black Muslim.
Freedom of speech applies to government supressión of speech.Private employers can do as they wish.

Colin Kapernick has come under criticism, and he has made future employment in the NFL difficult because of his actions.The NFL or the 49ers has no rule about standing for the National Anthem.Maybe there should be, but until there is, he can't be let go for that reason.

I would hope that no one loses their job over their political beliefs but it happens all the time.Curt Schilling and Ward Churchill, from opposite sides of the political spectrum ,come to mind,

Keep in mind that a lot of gay people did lose their jobs simply because of their homosexuality.

Also, how many jobs do people have where the Star Spangled Banner is played before the work day starts?If it's that important to the NFL, why are the TV networks showing commercials instead of the ceremony?

[Tom]

He needs to have his ass kicked in the parking lot.

[Clocker]

He needs to have his ass kicked in the parking lot.

You mean instead of on the field, as has been happening of late?

[OTM Al]

Yep.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/insulting-colin-kaepernick-says-more-about-our-patriotism-than-his/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.a1330cd64059

[delayjf]

Colin Kapernick has come under criticism, and he has made future employment in the NFL difficult because of his actions.The NFL or the 49ers has no rule about standing for the National Anthem.Maybe there should be, but until there is, he can't be let go for that reason.

That's my point, in the NFL's eye its OK to trash America and insult Veterans, but take a Christian stance against gay marriage, open bathrooms, and the NFL will threaten you with pulling a Super Bowl from your state. That says a lot about the politics of the NFL. I will watch the games, but I will not support their sponsors. All those in agreement should do the same.

[thaskalos]

Yep.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/insulting-colin-kaepernick-says-more-about-our-patriotism-than-his/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.a1330cd64059

Excellent! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[delayjf]

I think in a lot of ways Kareem probably agrees with Kaepernick, hense his support. Would he have written such an article if an Athlete who supported the KKK and had a confederate flag bumper sticker? Would he call that being "patriotic"?

[Tom]

Bullshit :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

People fought and died for that flag and what it stands for.
This is direct slap in their faces.
This POS can do whatever he wants to OFF the field.
When you are in the public eye like he is you show some kind respect for what others think and feel.

Look at all the hoopla HERE about the Stars and Bars.
Gary has less rights than the pig with the pigskin?

Would you guys support my rights if I wore a white robe and hood and swung a noose around at a football game?

Good grief.
Are there any freaking adults left?

[Tom]

Kaepernick looks just like Bin Laden.

[thaskalos]

Yeah. The national anthem is so "revered", and holds such great "significance"...that we allow pigs like Rosanne Barr make a travesty of its rendition.

[JustRalph]

Yep.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/insulting-colin-kaepernick-says-more-about-our-patriotism-than-his/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.a1330cd64059

Nice try. He winds the article up comparing the climate in 1967 to the current climate. That's absurd.

CP has every right to make an ass of himself. But drawing a line between 1967 and today is a joke.

[delayjf]

I didn't care for that either. I simply don't agree that bad mouthing your country is "patriotic". It is certainly his right to do so and given the blow back he may receive you could make the point that its a brave and bold thing to do - but patriotic, I disagree.

[JustRalph]

Yeah. The national anthem is so "revered", and holds such great "significance"...that we allow pigs like Rosanne Barr make a travesty of its rendition.

I think if the promoters of that event had known what she was going to do, they would have stopped it. It's easy for you to make that statement now. After the fact.

[PhantomOnTour]

I think if the promoters of that event had known what she was going to do, they would have stopped it. It's easy for you to make that statement now. After the fact.
Agreed, but at the same time, what did they think someone of the caliber of Roseanne would do?

If you invite Will Ferrell to sing the National Anthem you're kinda asking for it

[JustRalph]

Yep. That's real patriotism. Don't need a flag or a song about a battle in a war that never should have been fought, sung to the tune of an English drinking song to prove it. Being forced to comply to ceremony is not freedom, it is state sponsored religion, which i want nothing of.

You're being kind of excessively literal aren't you Al?

Your point might be valid if the police at the game or other events went around forcing people to stand........ :lol:

[thaskalos]

I think if the promoters of that event had known what she was going to do, they would have stopped it. It's easy for you to make that statement now. After the fact.

The national anthem is still handed over to be sung by "celebrities" who torture its rendition beyond recognition...as the crowd cheers wildly in approval. Even on the field of play...we see our athletes scratching their balls and blowing their noses, as our anthem is being played. Do the "promoters" of this event not see this?

[JustRalph]

The national anthem is still handed over to be sung by "celebrities" who torture its rendition beyond recognition...as the crowd cheers wildly in approval. Even on the field of play...we see our athletes scratching their balls and blowing their noses, as our anthem is being played. Do the "promoters" of this event not see this?

Point taken, but they have yet to make as much an event over it. They don't after the fact and I doubt if asked they would respond with the furtherance of a false narrative that has divided the country for over two years now. The truth is the theme and meme of BLM and the protests by NFL players is incorrect, false or even worse subversive. George Soro's's himself has funded BLM to the tune of 600k. It's a meme pushed to the left and once again blacks and false accounts of racism are being used. The oldest play in their playbook.

[Robert Fischer]

Point taken, but they have yet to make as much an event over it. They don't after the fact and I doubt if asked they would respond with the furtherance of a false narrative that has divided the country for over two years now. The truth is the theme and meme of BLM and the protests by NFL players is incorrect, false or even worse subversive. George Soro's's himself has funded BLM to the tune of 600k. It's a meme pushed to the left and once again blacks and false accounts of racism are being used. The oldest play in their playbook.

I think that's one of the greatest weaknesses to the credibility of the BLM movement.
There seems to be no 'quality control'.
As long as an incident is trending hot, it will be championed.
You could have a guy dress up as the terminator, drive a car through the police station wall, and attempt to gun down officers 1-by-1, and once the guy is killed, - if he happens to be black, he becomes that day's 'victim of racism'.

You've got some people involved with their media movement who value trends and clicks above all else.
They are obviously talented, and have a strong grasp of social media, but the quality of their material doesn't stand up to a critical eye.

[OTM Al]

Nice try. He winds the article up comparing the climate in 1967 to the current climate. That's absurd.

CP has every right to make an ass of himself. But drawing a line between 1967 and today is a joke.
Is it? I don't think so. That's just the span of my lifetime, doesn't seem all that long to me. Still plenty of ugliness to be seen even today. New York City is a very diverse place, but I still see it here. I listen to the rantings of a guy I grew up with back home who never left and he doesn't sound any different than the people 50 years ago blaming blacks for all his problems. Saw a video a few days ago of various people in crowds at Trump rallies. When Trump brought up the President, a guy started screaming "******". No one around him seemed to have a problem with it. You think it really is so different? I think that is absurd.

Just passing laws changes nothing. Attitudes become so institutionalized people sometimes don't even realize what they are doing. I don't stand up for the national anthem to salute veterans. I respect them but that's not what its about to me. It's about what the country is supposed to stand for. That's what I stand for and that's what he sits for and I have no problem with that. Besides that I've always felt it was a crap awful song to represent this country with, but that's a different subject. Something like America the Beautiful would be a far better choice IMO

Having been a first hand witness of 9/11 I am really growing weary of the cult of flag waiving and soldier worship that happened after that because of the hatred that seems to come out of it. I got no problem with soldiers. My best friend growing up was an Air Force fighter jock and two of my cousins are Marines. Those were the careers they chose and I respect that choice. But the simple fact of the matter is that a soldier has the same job whether he works for a democracy or a dictatorship and that is to protect the country from a foreign invader. He does not protect your freedom. Only you can do that by educating yourself and by taking action when you feel there has been injustice.

I don't think him sitting is going to make any real difference. But the fact that he did this full well knowing it would likely cost him makes me have to respect his choice. Standing up for your national anthem should not be about a lock step response that is part of some social construct patriotism (a great phrase I heard earlier today and wish I had come up with it). It is about belief in what your country represents. He doesn't feel it is representing certain issues as it should. He stays seated and I got no problem with that.

Hmm...I guess PA software blocks certain words. Well, it was a 6 letter word that starts with N and rhymes with digger so use your imagination...

[JustRalph]

Al, I don't disagree per se with much of anything in your post.

But I will tell you that my roots run through Ohio, KY and WV. I've lived in Maine, MD, SoCal, Ohio and Texas in the 80’s and again the last 4 years. I came of age in Ohio, WV and KY during the late 60's. I watched the civil rights movement and was just old enough to get it. I had a black friend at this time who's father was very active and his actions were not hidden from me, nor was anything else. I understood what was going on. I also spent time in KY and WV where I saw actual KKK members.

I have been a police officer in four states. My most revealing association with the black community came as a 911 operator in Charlotte. I've had black friends and black employees who have revealed much about their plight. I don't know about NY but where I have lived and what I have witnessed is a complete turnaround in how blacks are treated. I'm sure it's bad in many many places. But it's not 1967 in no way shape or form.

One thing you said, "Just passing laws changes nothing" is exactly right. Forcing Americans to do anything is never a good idea. Btw, the greater discussion would be about the permanent underclass and sub culture created by the great society programs. I speak to young people who work for us about how to escape. Some get it, some revel in their plight. The blacks celebrate it in fact. The Hispanics, not so much. I'm talking about 20 somethings. Btw, the Hispanic women get it. The black women don't. The black females are a downtrodden group who are treated like shit by black men, and they accept it. It's horrible. We've had hundreds work for us over the years. The black community needs to look inside itself first.

[MutuelClerk]

1968 I was ten years old and at the Tigers vs Cardinals World Series game. Ernie Harwell invited Jose Feliciano to sing the national anthem. People were " outraged " at his version. You could hear boo's everywhere. Wasn't that disrespect? Personally I liked it. My dad like most was outraged. You listen to it now and it's pretty tame. Back then it was some Mexican disrespecting OUR country. The Star Spangled Banner shouldn't even be the national anthem. Besides Marvin Gaye's rendition my favorite national anthem ever was at my nieces lacrosse game a few years ago. The recording failed, and about 15-20 people in the stands and the players on the field sang. I believe a lot more people will not be standing in the future when national anthems are played. You can protest and still love your country. The patriotism card is a delicate issue. I can see violence happening after national anthems in the near future over peoples choice to stand or sit. Mostly because of alcohol.

[OTM Al]

I think we can all use a regular dose of looking inside ourselves. I think the phenomenon you are citing is more about poor people than it is about race. I've seen plenty of white people act exactly the same way as what you are talking about. Yes, there are differences in cultural norms, always has been, but making large generalizations as you just have does nothing but reinforce the stereotype. Plenty of white men beat on women too. You were a cop so you know what it's like showing up to a domestic and what you see when you get there. Sure things are better than 1967, but do you think it's good enough? I don't. I think there's a way to go and the further we go, the more difficult it gets because we all have to learn to face the parts of us that aren't good, and that's a difficult thing to do because those things have so long been a part of who we are. Stuff I'm seeing right now is pretty ugly still. I also believe that racial tensions will recede after the election to be replaced by new levels of misogyny. Just look at the words being used against Mrs. Clinton right now if you don't believe me.

[EMD4ME]

Kaepernick looks just like Bin Laden.

OMG :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D

[Parkview_Pirate]

I think Kareem could have said 1957, and been accurate. Obama & company have put race relations back at least 50 years. Certainly not all the factors are the same, but the level of fear and distrust is much higher today than 10 years ago.

As for Kaepernick, I thought he was the real deal when he first came in the league. With his high guaranteed salary, it not only allowed him to shoot his mouth off with fewer repercussions, but now makes him virtually untradeable.

He obviously doesn't have what it takes mentally to be successful in the NFL, so his days are numbered. However, being a lifelong Vikings fan and with Bridgewater getting hurt today, maybe Minny should consider picking him up. The Twin Cities is pretty forgiving to loud-mouth minorities.

I'd bet that within a few years, if not already, Kaepernick will regret biting the hand that fed him....

[JustRalph]

Al, you know I have great respect for you. Please take it from me. Black females are victims of domestic violence at rates that far exceed other races. To the point that it is an accepted cultural norm. It's not a stereotype. It's a fact.

No I don't think "it's good enough" but it's a hell of a lot better than the 60's


I think we can all use a regular dose of looking inside ourselves. I think the phenomenon you are citing is more about poor people than it is about race. I've seen plenty of white people act exactly the same way as what you are talking about. Yes, there are differences in cultural norms, always has been, but making large generalizations as you just have does nothing but reinforce the stereotype. Plenty of white men beat on women too. You were a cop so you know what it's like showing up to a domestic and what you see when you get there. Sure things are better than 1967, but do you think it's good enough? I don't. I think there's a way to go and the further we go, the more difficult it gets because we all have to learn to face the parts of us that aren't good, and that's a difficult thing to do because those things have so long been a part of who we are. Stuff I'm seeing right now is pretty ugly still. I also believe that racial tensions will recede after the election to be replaced by new levels of misogyny. Just look at the words being used against Mrs. Clinton right now if you don't believe me.

[OTM Al]

I think Kareem could have said 1957, and been accurate. Obama & company have put race relations back at least 50 years. Certainly not all the factors are the same, but the level of fear and distrust is much higher today than 10 years ago....
This is completely false. Thank you though for bringing up a race baiting talking point though. You ever think that just maybe the African American community is just tired of taking the crap and finally did something about it? You think maybe the bigots have become more outspoken because he is a black man? You think maybe because of these things it is being addressed more. That sounds like progress to me. The only complaint against the President in this respect is that they figured he would be able to do more. He couldn't because people just don't change that fast. There is disappointment. But relations have moved forward, not back. Find something real to blame him for if you want, but this is nonsense.

[OTM Al]

Al, you know I have great respect for you. Please take it from me. Black females are victims of domestic violence at rates that far exceed other races. To the point that it is an accepted cultural norm. It's not a stereotype. It's a fact.

No I don't think "it's good enough" but it's a hell of a lot better than the 60's
Not going to argue it as it isn't the point here. Maybe I've just been lucky in that all the black men I've known would never act in such a way and the women would not accept it.

[Parkview_Pirate]

This is completely false. Thank you though for bringing up a race baiting talking point though. You ever think that just maybe the African American community is just tired of taking the crap and finally did something about it? You think maybe the bigots have become more outspoken because he is a black man? You think maybe because of these things it is being addressed more. That sounds like progress to me. The only complaint against the President in this respect is that they figured he would be able to do more. He couldn't because people just don't change that fast. There is disappointment. But relations have moved forward, not back. Find something real to blame him for if you want, but this is nonsense.

If you think Obama has improved race relations since taking office, then you're living on a different planet than the rest of us. Rather than wait for the facts, he jumped right into the Trayvon Martin case, claiming baby Trey-Trey could have been his son. What a crock. Now we all know what a white Hispanic person is.

He appointed another racist Eric Holder to one of the most important offices in government, and his track record speaks for itself. Not only did he use any excuse to fan the flames of race when it came to police shootings, he failed to actually do his job - and should have been busy locking up banksters.

Blacks have become more vocal, but that's a result of the economy hitting them harder than most. Black unemployment is up under Obama, and the Dems continue to show that keeping blacks poor is in their interest to garner their votes. And I'd really like to hear your thoughts on what Obama has done to address these issues - 'cause what I've observed is a some yappin' with no real results.

As for bigots being more outspoken because Obama is black - that's also a crock. Those of us who are critical of him have our reasons - his incompetence, his Marxism, his narcissism along with his racism. Also demonstrated by his wife.

Seems to me you're the one doing the race baiting.

[PhantomOnTour]

Lots of rumors on the web, not confirmed by any major news source, that Kaepernick converted to Islam over the off season and that he is engaged to a Black Lives Matter activist.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/27/controversy-erupts-after-nfl-quarterback-converts-to-islam-and-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem/ (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/27/controversy-erupts-after-nfl-quarterback-converts-to-islam-and-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem/)
And he handles the pig skin on Sundays?
Hmmmm...I bet THAT ain't kosher :lol:

[JustRalph]

Just for the record

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domestic_violence/resources/statistics/Race_Ethnicity_Statisitcs.html

"African Americans

African Americans, especially African American Women, suffer deadly violence from family members at rates decidedly higher than for other racial groups in the United States. However, it is observed that research concerning family violence among African Americans is inadequate.

Overall, African Americans were victimized by intimate partners a significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black females experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than that of white females, and about 22 times the rate of women of other races. Black males experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white males and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races. "

[OTM Al]

If you think Obama has improved race relations since taking office, then you're living on a different planet than the rest of us. Rather than wait for the facts, he jumped right into the Trayvon Martin case, claiming baby Trey-Trey could have been his son. What a crock. Now we all know what a white Hispanic person is.

He appointed another racist Eric Holder to one of the most important offices in government, and his track record speaks for itself. Not only did he use any excuse to fan the flames of race when it came to police shootings, he failed to actually do his job - and should have been busy locking up banksters.

Blacks have become more vocal, but that's a result of the economy hitting them harder than most. Black unemployment is up under Obama, and the Dems continue to show that keeping blacks poor is in their interest to garner their votes. And I'd really like to hear your thoughts on what Obama has done to address these issues - 'cause what I've observed is a some yappin' with no real results.

As for bigots being more outspoken because Obama is black - that's also a crock. Those of us who are critical of him have our reasons - his incompetence, his Marxism, his narcissism along with his racism. Also demonstrated by his wife.

Seems to me you're the one doing the race baiting.

Whatever there Talking Point Pirate. I guess you liked it better when they knew their place. Some of the stuff you have here is straight out of the white supremacist playbook, but let's deal with some of the more real things you have here. So the President I guess is responsible for the economy by what you are saying because there is a plot to keep blacks poor. And I guess he has such great control that the blacks are kept down while keeping white people happy with the market at an all time high. Doesn't even make sense.

You also clearly have no idea what a Marxist is. Mr. Obama is a centrist like pretty much every president has to be to get elected. He leans left on some issues, but isn't remotely a Marxist. I'll point out again that when Mrs. Clinton is elected you will see a slight shift in these words your favorite alt right press uses to criticize her as we shift from terms applied to blacks to those applied to women. Frankly, the right is in support of the one greatest issue that results in keeping people poor and increase in crime and that is their anti abortion stance. It is no coincidence that crime rates began to fall right around 20 years after Roe.

[OTM Al]

Just for the record

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domestic_violence/resources/statistics/Race_Ethnicity_Statisitcs.html

"African Americans

African Americans, especially African American Women, suffer deadly violence from family members at rates decidedly higher than for other racial groups in the United States. However, it is observed that research concerning family violence among African Americans is inadequate.

Overall, African Americans were victimized by intimate partners a significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black females experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than that of white females, and about 22 times the rate of women of other races. Black males experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white males and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races. "
I'll have to look at this Ralph. It is initially unclear in your blurb how data was gathered and what was controlled for.

[chadk66]

I agree, Obama has taken race relations back many many years.

[highnote]

As Donald Trump likes to say, "Bad publicity is better than no publicity."

Kaep got what he wanted -- attention to a cause he cares about.

If everyone just ignored him there would be no controversy. But no. Everyone has to chime in -- including me. :D So here are my random thoughts after reading through this thread...

Jackie Robinson said he could not stand and salute the flag during the national anthem knowing that he is a black man in a white world. Robinson is a national hero. :confused:

The third verse of the anthem makes a reference to slavery that some interpret to be anti-abolitionist because Francis Scott Key owned slaves and slaves were offered freedom by the British if they fought against the colonists. Colonists viewed this as treasonous.

Man, if you were a slave, that put you in a tough spot!!! :bang:

This is the third verse:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Personally, I think the National Anthem is overused. Why is it played before nearly every boys high school basketball and football game?

On the other hand, why is it not played before every high school sporting event? Why is it not played before middle school and elementary school games? Don't tell me it's because there is no loud speaker system. The scorekeeper for our high school basketball games sang it accapella.

It is played just about every day before the races if I am remembering correctly. Interesting tradition to play it before a gambling event.

Personally, I do not care how Kaep acts during the national anthem. It doesn't affect how I feel about the song or what it represents.

I do not care how Rosanne Barr sang the national anthem. She's an American comedian. Her rendition reflected the comedic style she is known for. If she is not a good singer, then perhaps it is appropriate that she is not afraid to put on public display how awful a singer she is? Is it really any different in substance from what Lady Gaga did? Gaga did a terrific job at the Super Bowl, but she's a professional singer. I don't recall anyone ever claiming Rosanne was a professional singer.

If the U.S. had a national joke and Lady Gaga butchered it, would people get upset?

I've heard some awful renditions of the national anthem, but the singers were sincere, so that made it ok. Just because Rosanne can't sing doesn't mean she was trying to be disrespectful. She was having fun at a fun event. Isn't that what the song represents -- our freedom and how freedom makes attending baseball games possible?

And even if she was trying to be disrespectful, I don't care. It doesn't change how I feel about what the old English drinking song that has become our national anthem represents.

The song has only been our national anthem since 1931.

Personally, I'd prefer if our national anthem was "America the Beautiful". The lyrics and melody were written by natural born Americans.

[Tom]

The national anthem is still handed over to be sung by "celebrities" who torture its rendition beyond recognition...as the crowd cheers wildly in approval. Even on the field of play...we see our athletes scratching their balls and blowing their noses, as our anthem is being played. Do the "promoters" of this event not see this?

I suspect they do, but since it is demonstrative of their social evolution, it appears normal to them all. Especially the ball action.

[Steve 'StatMan']

And he handles the pig skin on Sundays?
Hmmmm...I bet THAT ain't kosher :lol:

Just FYI - the knickname "Pigskin" for a football is a misnomer. Footballs are made from leather - cow hide.

Not sure if I remember correctly, but baseballs, knicknamed "Horse Hide" is another misnomer, might be made of pig skin, maybe something else, but definitely not horse hide.

Maybe many decades ago these knicknames were correct, but not in modern (1960's & later) times.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Well okay, since he's got everyone's attention and the is now a legit spokesperson and an esteemed awareness raiser - I'll give the crowd here that is particularly upset a reason to fall in love with him again a la Creepy Assange:



"We have a presidential candidate who has deleted emails and done things illegally and is a presidential candidate,” he said, referring to the 15,000 emails Clinton “wiped” from her private, unsecured server she used during her tenure as secretary of State. “That doesn’t make sense to me.”

“If it was any other person, they’d be in prison,” he said.” So what is this country really standing for?”

...


“You have Hillary, who has called black kids, or black teens, ‘Super-predators,'” Kaepernick said, referring to Clinton’s past remarks about gang violence in which she espoused a since-debunked theory that some say has racially charged connotations.


I guess this marks the moment where his supporters turn on him and his detractors carry him off into the sunset on their shoulders.


http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/30/colin-kaepernick-just-went-beastmode-hillary-clinton/

[JustRalph]

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave"

This was the common term for the indentured British soldiers at the time. It has nothing to do with regular slavery. Keep reading those BLM tweets, they will make a fool of you every time

[PaceAdvantage]

I'll have to look at this Ralph. It is initially unclear in your blurb how data was gathered and what was controlled for.Just make sure Ralph didn't get those stats out of the "White Supremacist Playbook." :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Google makes it easy. Spend a couple years answering 911 calls in a large city that's over 30% black........you start to get the picture

https://www.domesticshelters.org/domestic-violence-statistics/demographics-and-domestic-violence#.V8cHCOs8KrU

[OTM Al]

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave"

This was the common term for the indentured British soldiers at the time. It has nothing to do with regular slavery. Keep reading those BLM tweets, they will make a fool of you every time

It actually may Ralph, but to be fair, there is no absolutely solid evidence that it does. The facts of the matter are that there were units of British soldiers recruited from slaves as well as units of hirelings. It is also known that Key was a slave owner and that he felt that blacks were "a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community." After that there is merely conjecture. Neither argument is unreasonable and neither can be absolutely proven. I would believe though that your interpretation is incorrect for one basic reason. The major catalyst for the War of 1812 was the impressment of US citizens. Thus, give the sentiment for their plight, why would the author revel in the deaths of his fellow countrymen and others sharing the same fate? The author would, given his above statement though, be quite happy about the deaths of slaves who had gone over to the British. I have to conclude that he is referring to actual (former) slaves.

[OTM Al]

Just make sure Ralph didn't get those stats out of the "White Supremacist Playbook." :rolleyes:
Don't be ridiculous. They are stats and I have no reason to believe they are incorrect or created due to bias. However, the stats themselves can be biased in the statistical sense. Do we all accept that the black population as a whole has a lower level of income than does the rest of the US? Do we all accept that the incarceration rate of blacks is higher than the rest of the population? If the data is drawn from convictions for the crime then we would expect a higher rate of blacks to be represented in the data. If that data was not controlled for income levels then the real phenomenon could be that abuse of women is not different between races but is by socio-economic level. It is the bias in the statistical data that made it look like a race thing and not the economic issue that it really is.

Now I don't know if this is true or not as i haven't had a chance to look at what the paper did in regards to the data. It may well be exactly right. I happen to like Ralph and respect him very much because unlike 90% of the people in this section, he can actually put together a well reasoned argument based on what he believes to be fact rather than repeating the crap that gets spun around and spewed out of both the far right and far left faux media. For example, do you realize that the "allegations" that the player is a Muslim is taken from a single unsubstantiated tweet and was in no part of his statement? It's made the rounds of all these sites as actual news. You aware that these so called media sites are regularly picking up propaganda stories done by organizations such as the Russian Times, an organization fully run by Russian Intelligence to sow discord in the US? I think it is quite fair to be critical of all these things people are repeating ad nauseum here.

[OTM Al]

Just for the record

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domestic_violence/resources/statistics/Race_Ethnicity_Statisitcs.html

"African Americans

African Americans, especially African American Women, suffer deadly violence from family members at rates decidedly higher than for other racial groups in the United States. However, it is observed that research concerning family violence among African Americans is inadequate.

Overall, African Americans were victimized by intimate partners a significantly higher rates than persons of any other race between 1993 and 1998. Black females experienced intimate partner violence at a rate 35% higher than that of white females, and about 22 times the rate of women of other races. Black males experienced intimate partner violence at a rate about 62% higher than that of white males and about 2.5 times the rate of men of other races. "

Read through the underlying report that is linked there. It is well done and does look into the questions I asked. Income level, home ownership and urban vs suburban residence all have significant correlation in higher rates of domestic violence. It is unclear without further research how the data was gathered so we can leave that part aside, but it is clear given blacks tend to have lower incomes than whites, are less likely to be home owners and are more likely to be urban dwellers that economic conditions are driving the phenomenon you are accurately reporting, not race.

[JustRalph]

CP's comments were censored or edited.

He had more to say
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/08/31/kaepernick-oh-way-hillary-jail/

EsAKAOBBGMQ

[OTM Al]

CP's comments were censored or edited.

He had more to say
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/08/31/kaepernick-oh-way-hillary-jail/

EsAKAOBBGMQ
This is going to be so confusing to so many people :)

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't be ridiculous. They are stats and I have no reason to believe they are incorrect or created due to bias. However, the stats themselves can be biased in the statistical sense. Do we all accept that the black population as a whole has a lower level of income than does the rest of the US? Do we all accept that the incarceration rate of blacks is higher than the rest of the population? If the data is drawn from convictions for the crime then we would expect a higher rate of blacks to be represented in the data. If that data was not controlled for income levels then the real phenomenon could be that abuse of women is not different between races but is by socio-economic level. It is the bias in the statistical data that made it look like a race thing and not the economic issue that it really is.

Now I don't know if this is true or not as i haven't had a chance to look at what the paper did in regards to the data. It may well be exactly right. I happen to like Ralph and respect him very much because unlike 90% of the people in this section, he can actually put together a well reasoned argument based on what he believes to be fact rather than repeating the crap that gets spun around and spewed out of both the far right and far left faux media. For example, do you realize that the "allegations" that the player is a Muslim is taken from a single unsubstantiated tweet and was in no part of his statement? It's made the rounds of all these sites as actual news. You aware that these so called media sites are regularly picking up propaganda stories done by organizations such as the Russian Times, an organization fully run by Russian Intelligence to sow discord in the US? I think it is quite fair to be critical of all these things people are repeating ad nauseum here.I'm sure you realize that ANYTHING negative related to minorties, whether it be FACT or FICTION, ends up in the "White Supremacist Playbook," so really, that kind of retort that you used earlier rubs me the wrong way every time.

[highnote]

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave"

This was the common term for the indentured British soldiers at the time. It has nothing to do with regular slavery. Keep reading those BLM tweets, they will make a fool of you every time

Actually, it was from CNN. Maybe not quite as reliable as BLM. :D

[OTM Al]

I'm sure you realize that ANYTHING negative related to minorties, whether it be FACT or FICTION, ends up in the "White Supremacist Playbook," so really, that kind of retort that you used earlier rubs me the wrong way every time.
No, not true. The thing Ralph posted is not positive but is completely true. It just depends how you use it. If you use it to justify a claim that all blacks are soulless animals because they beat up their women, then yeah, you are right out of the playbook. But you can also take the exact same information and use it in a purely factual way to try to discern what is happening and what can be done about it. You can either sit around and point fingers or stand up and say something.

Laying blame is right out of that playbook. Making gross generalities like you just did is right out of that playbook. What kind of person do you want to be? What are you really saying when you say negative things about a particular group? Who are you quoting? Who are you agreeing with when you say that stuff? Ever think about it? Ever really checked it out yourself? Its all up to you. As I said before, it is entirely up to each and every one of us to protect our freedoms. If we let others think for us and dictate our opinions, if we turn our backs on educating ourselves for the easy pap we are fed each day on the web and TV, we are done already.

[PaceAdvantage]

What gross generality did I make? That anything negative, whether true or false, ends up in the WSP?

I didn't do any research, but I'm pretty sure that's a factual statement...those people will use anything negative to promote their hate, whether it's negative fact or negative fiction.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Whatever there Talking Point Pirate. I guess you liked it better when they knew their place. Some of the stuff you have here is straight out of the white supremacist playbook, but let's deal with some of the more real things you have here. So the President I guess is responsible for the economy by what you are saying because there is a plot to keep blacks poor. And I guess he has such great control that the blacks are kept down while keeping white people happy with the market at an all time high. Doesn't even make sense.

You also clearly have no idea what a Marxist is. Mr. Obama is a centrist like pretty much every president has to be to get elected. He leans left on some issues, but isn't remotely a Marxist. I'll point out again that when Mrs. Clinton is elected you will see a slight shift in these words your favorite alt right press uses to criticize her as we shift from terms applied to blacks to those applied to women. Frankly, the right is in support of the one greatest issue that results in keeping people poor and increase in crime and that is their anti abortion stance. It is no coincidence that crime rates began to fall right around 20 years after Roe.

You seem to be taking a page right out of the DNC playbook, where race is prominently in play to manipulate the voters - "don't say all lives matter, don't mention black on black crime".

http://www.infowars.com/hacked-confidential-memo-reveals-how-dems-deal-with-radical-black-lives-matter/

Rather than a "plot" to keep blacks poor, it's simply been easier for Obama to ignore the plights of blacks (except to fan the flames when there's a shooting with the correct color combination). And he's hardly keeping whites happy, but he's been pretty good about keeping the 1% pleased, regardless of their skin color.

As for Obama, he's about as centrist as Barry Goldwater. His radical upbringing to bring about social change is clearly reflected in his economic, immigration and foreign policies. He's been an extremely divisive president, using the tools of race and class to keep the country polarized while he implements his left wing agenda behind the scenes. The "transparency" he assured everyone he would bring to the White House has never materialized, but what we have seen is an ever tightening death grip of government control, tax increases, and class warfare - at the expense of the middle class and the poor. That makes him a Marxist in my book.

You can twist the words all you want, like a good little leftie, and falsely accuse those who disagree with you as being white supremacists, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama is extremely racist.

[OTM Al]

What gross generality did I make? That anything negative, whether true or false, ends up in the WSP?
Yep. I understand the frustration with what people see as the stifling of their rights to express their thoughts by the so called PC or thought police. Isn't that just what is going on in this case that we are supposed to be talking about? Use your facts, speak out, educate yourself and others. But take it further than just expressing something negative. Tear into it and look for the why and what can be done. That's real argument and debate. Not this garbage of repeating talking points over and over with nothing to back them up but anger. That is the playbook material.

[OTM Al]

You seem to be taking a page right out of the DNC playbook, where race is prominently in play to manipulate the voters - "don't say all lives matter, don't mention black on black crime".

http://www.infowars.com/hacked-confidential-memo-reveals-how-dems-deal-with-radical-black-lives-matter/

Rather than a "plot" to keep blacks poor, it's simply been easier for Obama to ignore the plights of blacks (except to fan the flames when there's a shooting with the correct color combination). And he's hardly keeping whites happy, but he's been pretty good about keeping the 1% pleased, regardless of their skin color.

As for Obama, he's about as centrist as Barry Goldwater. His radical upbringing to bring about social change is clearly reflected in his economic, immigration and foreign policies. He's been an extremely divisive president, using the tools of race and class to keep the country polarized while he implements his left wing agenda behind the scenes. The "transparency" he assured everyone he would bring to the White House has never materialized, but what we have seen is an ever tightening death grip of government control, tax increases, and class warfare - at the expense of the middle class and the poor. That makes him a Marxist in my book.

You can twist the words all you want, like a good little leftie, and falsely accuse those who disagree with you as being white supremacists, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama is extremely racist.

Infowars....yeah, done with you. You need do nothing more to prove the point you think I was making about you.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Infowars....yeah, done with you. You need do nothing more to prove the point you think I was making about you.

Typical smug response from someone who's posts have no content, but include plenty of name calling. Still waiting for any example of Obummer attempting to improve race relations.

And, are you saying the emails posted at infowars are not genuine?

[highnote]

Still trying to understand why everyone hates Kaepernick, but loves Jackie Robinson. Robinson refused to stand and sign the national anthem.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-hate-colin-kaepernick-hate-jackie-robinson-article-1.2771561

There I was, the black grandson of a slave, the son of a black sharecropper, part of a historic occasion, a symbolic hero to my people. The air was sparkling. The sunlight was warm. The band struck up the national anthem. The flag billowed in the wind. It should have been a glorious moment for me as the stirring words of the national anthem poured from the stands. Perhaps, it was, but then again, perhaps, the anthem could be called the theme song for a drama called The Noble Experiment. Today, as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr. Rickey's drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made.

[OTM Al]

Typical smug response from someone who's posts have no content, but include plenty of name calling. Still waiting for any example of Obummer attempting to improve race relations.

And, are you saying the emails posted at infowars are not genuine?
There is no point discussing this with you further. If you are going on a site like that you are the converted and have no wish to think for yourself or learn. I don't really care what pieces of info they post, they will never give a complete and honest accounting of anything and will spin whatever they have to fit their own agenda. Plenty of left wing sites like that too if you think I only pick on alt right.

[OTM Al]

Still trying to understand why everyone hates Kaepernick, but loves Jackie Robinson. Robinson refused to stand and sign the national anthem.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-hate-colin-kaepernick-hate-jackie-robinson-article-1.2771561
Because people decided he was "one of the good ones". Because people don't want to have their idols tarnished...just fill in the blank. They came to love Karim and Ali as well. Kinda what they key line in the best John Wayne movie ever said. When fact becomes legend, print the legend.

[highnote]

Because people decided he was "one of the good ones". Because people don't want to have their idols tarnished...just fill in the blank. They came to love Karim and Ali as well. Kinda what they key line in the best John Wayne movie ever said. When fact becomes legend, print the legend.


MLK, JFK, RFK, too. They all had human flaws, but they all had courage.

[chadk66]

Still trying to understand why everyone hates Kaepernick, but loves Jackie Robinson. Robinson refused to stand and sign the national anthem.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-hate-colin-kaepernick-hate-jackie-robinson-article-1.2771561it probably has to do with the fact there was a little bit of oppression going on back then as opposed to now:D

[TJDave]

Still trying to understand why everyone hates Kaepernick, but loves Jackie Robinson. Robinson refused to stand and sign the national anthem.

He did it while he played. I've seen pictures of him with his cap over his heart.

[chadk66]

So there's a little more to this story it appears. Imagine the lame stream media sweeping this under the rug

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/31/bias-alert-press-ignores-kaepernicks-hillary-for-prison-remark.html

[TJDave]

So there's a little more to this story it appears. Imagine the lame stream media sweeping this under the rug

I knew about it earlier today. Must not be much of a secret. How did you find out?

[OTM Al]

So there's a little more to this story it appears. Imagine the lame stream media sweeping this under the rug

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/31/bias-alert-press-ignores-kaepernicks-hillary-for-prison-remark.html
Fox News Bias Report. That's awesome. I will now bring you a similar bias report. You see, I think the President of the United States is also a very important symbol. Despite what people think about the person in the office, I believe we should give respect. That doesn't mean we can't voice disagreement or disappointment, but outright disparagement of the person in the office I think is pretty disrespectful of a symbol of this country.

I didn't think George W Bush was a good president, but I don't think he was a bad guy and I can't disrespect him for doing the job. But the funny thing is how many people are outraged about the disrespect they perceive to one symbol are the same people who say really ugly things about another. I didn't vote for Mr. Obama last time around either, as I was, like many others, a bit disappointed. But I still have respect for him. I may have even voted for Mr. McCain the first time around until he brought on Mrs. Palin. Then it became a pretty easy choice. I still think if Bob Dole would have shown the slightest bit of his humanity when he ran, he would have won and I would have voted for him. Some part of me thinks I probably would be a Republican if they didn't keep aligning themselves with ridiculous stands that seem to go whole against the stated ideal of the party.

So maybe I should follow along by the example of all of you who demand respect for one symbol but heap abuse on another. I won't disrespect a person (well, maybe if it was Trump but that won't be happening. I stick by the fact that you must be centrist to be elected) so I will now disrespect the flag and sit down during the national anthem when I don't like the material the flag is made of. I'm not a fan of non natural materials so any time the flag is made of anything but all-American cotton or linen, I will stay seated. Only when I approve of what the flag is made of will I give it respect. Electronic flags are just right out.

[zico20]

This clown is getting more radical every day. He is now sporting a Fidel Castro t-shirt, which has the Cuban American community up in arms. I guess we should have seen this coming. Not standing for the the national anthem, then supporting the BLM movement, now he is a communist sympathizer. What could be possibly next? I see him joining the Taliban. :D

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/sports/2016/08/31/4ers-quaterback-kaerpernick-under-fire-for-wearing-fidel-castro-t-shirt/

[Rise Over Run]

So "The Nation" runs an article with an anonymous quote from a NFL Executive that Colin K is disliked as much as convicted murderer and former NFL player Ray Carruth.

https://www.thenation.com/article/an-nfl-executive-compares-kaepernick-to-a-man-who-murdered-a-pregnant-woman/

The even go so far as to post a photo of Ray in an orange jump suit in prison and call out the NFL Exec for being an unnamed coward. The source of this "juicy inside story" is NFL veteran journalist Mike Freeman of Bleacher Report. Just so happens to be the same guy that lied on a job application about obtaining a degree from University of Delaware.... :bang:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2004/01/Issue-77/Sports-Media/True-Lies-Freeman-Resigns-Indy-Post-Due-To-False-Resume.aspx

Things that make you go hmmmmm

[OTM Al]

This clown is getting more radical every day. He is now sporting a Fidel Castro t-shirt, which has the Cuban American community up in arms. I guess we should have seen this coming. Not standing for the the national anthem, then supporting the BLM movement, now he is a communist sympathizer. What could be possibly next? I see him joining the Taliban. :D

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/sports/2016/08/31/4ers-quaterback-kaerpernick-under-fire-for-wearing-fidel-castro-t-shirt/
I think he is likely more interested in the Malcolm X aspect of that shirt.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Because people decided he was "one of the good ones". Because people don't want to have their idols tarnished...just fill in the blank. They came to love Karim and Ali as well. Kinda what they key line in the best John Wayne movie ever said. When fact becomes legend, print the legend.
Great movie. That line was said by well known character actor Carleton Young.

[chadk66]

Fox News Bias Report. That's awesome. I will now bring you a similar bias report. You see, I think the President of the United States is also a very important symbol. Despite what people think about the person in the office, I believe we should give respect. That doesn't mean we can't voice disagreement or disappointment, but outright disparagement of the person in the office I think is pretty disrespectful of a symbol of this country.

I didn't think George W Bush was a good president, but I don't think he was a bad guy and I can't disrespect him for doing the job. But the funny thing is how many people are outraged about the disrespect they perceive to one symbol are the same people who say really ugly things about another. I didn't vote for Mr. Obama last time around either, as I was, like many others, a bit disappointed. But I still have respect for him. I may have even voted for Mr. McCain the first time around until he brought on Mrs. Palin. Then it became a pretty easy choice. I still think if Bob Dole would have shown the slightest bit of his humanity when he ran, he would have won and I would have voted for him. Some part of me thinks I probably would be a Republican if they didn't keep aligning themselves with ridiculous stands that seem to go whole against the stated ideal of the party.

So maybe I should follow along by the example of all of you who demand respect for one symbol but heap abuse on another. I won't disrespect a person (well, maybe if it was Trump but that won't be happening. I stick by the fact that you must be centrist to be elected) so I will now disrespect the flag and sit down during the national anthem when I don't like the material the flag is made of. I'm not a fan of non natural materials so any time the flag is made of anything but all-American cotton or linen, I will stay seated. Only when I approve of what the flag is made of will I give it respect. Electronic flags are just right out.you have to earn respect. I think most people respected him when he was elected. Not so much anymore. He earned his disrespect just like one has to earn respect.

[OTM Al]

you have to earn respect. I think most people respected him when he was elected. Not so much anymore. He earned his disrespect just like one has to earn respect.
So perhaps because all of the missteps this country has made over time, can we equally say that the flag and anthem have also earned disrespect? I find the logic of the argument exactly the same when considering each a symbol. So if you think you are right to give disrespect to the president, then you must also think he is right to give disrespect to the anthem. In fact, that was his stated point, just as you yourself stated. He will stand again when he feels like the respect has been earned.

[classhandicapper]

Fox News Bias Report. That's awesome.

I have a problem with this even though I agree with you.

The implication is that Fox is biased, but CNN, MSBC, ABC, CBS, NBC etc.. are not. That's not true.

I happened to spend most of my time reading biased libertarian and Austrian financial sources :lol: . So it's easier for me to see that there are no sources that are even close to unbiased. There are just more sources biased to the left. That makes bright people that view those sources assume they are the informed ones in the "truth" zone when they are just getting a different brand of crap from more directions.

[chadk66]

So perhaps because all of the missteps this country has made over time, can we equally say that the flag and anthem have also earned disrespect? I find the logic of the argument exactly the same when considering each a symbol. So if you think you are right to give disrespect to the president, then you must also think he is right to give disrespect to the anthem. In fact, that was his stated point, just as you yourself stated. He will stand again when he feels like the respect has been earned.This country has done more for the rest of the world than it's done for it's own country. So we've earned our respect. Nothing we can do about the fact our president has been making an apology tour out of his presidency causing countries to figure they can disrespect us. Since, as you say other countries don't respect us, then I say we stop all foreign aid. There is no reason to be supplying other countries with aid when we can't even take care of our veterans.

[OTM Al]

I have a problem with this even though I agree with you.

The implication is that Fox is biased, but CNN, MSBC, ABC, CBS, NBC etc.. are not. That's not true.

I happened to spend most of my time reading biased libertarian and Austrian financial sources :lol: . So it's easier for me to see that there are no sources that are even close to unbiased. There are just more sources biased to the left. That makes bright people that view those sources assume they are the informed ones in the "truth" zone when they are just getting a different brand of crap from more directions.
That wasn't the implication I meant. I just thought it was funny that Fox News had something called Bias Report. I would think it just as funny if the others had something like that too.

[OTM Al]

This country has done more for the rest of the world than it's done for it's own country. So we've earned our respect. Nothing we can do about the fact our president has been making an apology tour out of his presidency causing countries to figure they can disrespect us. Since, as you say other countries don't respect us, then I say we stop all foreign aid. There is no reason to be supplying other countries with aid when we can't even take care of our veterans.
No, it hasn't and not even close. And it is very short sighted to think things done for the rest of the world are not in our own self interests. I'd say they pretty much always are. Cut yourself off and you will suddenly find yourself quite alone and that is not a good thing.

There used to be a thing called diplomacy. It has been replaced with screaming and demands. Showing a little respect for others isn't a bad thing. I guess that is thought poorly of by some now though. I do agree that this country should take better care of the veterans who have sustained either physical or mental injury. Unfortunately this is nothing remotely new.

[chadk66]

No, it hasn't and not even close. And it is very short sighted to think things done for the rest of the world are not in our own self interests. I'd say they pretty much always are. Cut yourself off and you will suddenly find yourself quite alone and that is not a good thing.

There used to be a thing called diplomacy. It has been replaced with screaming and demands. Showing a little respect for others isn't a bad thing. I guess that is thought poorly of by some now though. I do agree that this country should take better care of the veterans who have sustained either physical or mental injury. Unfortunately this is nothing remotely new.But your boy Obama started this new diplomacy thingy eight years ago. And we've gone backwards:D

[OTM Al]

But your boy Obama started this new diplomacy thingy eight years ago. And we've gone backwards:D
My "boy"? Interesting....

[JustRalph]

Now he is just being a dick!

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8832/colin-kaepernicks-practice-socks-pig-cops-hat-james-barrett?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot

[woodtoo]

Stay classy Colin, stay classy.

[chadk66]

Now he is just being a dick!

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8832/colin-kaepernicks-practice-socks-pig-cops-hat-james-barrett?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriotI think the end of his career just got put into hyper speed

[Nitro]

Every once and a while a celebrity, be they involved in Sports or otherwise seems to think that they offer more credibility on topics outside of their realm then the average citizen . They also seem to believe that because they’re in the public’s eye that their attention to some matter can actually sway public opinion. Unfortunately, the comments they make to justify their actions are very often not even factual, as is the case with Kaepernick. So the end result is they do influence the public’s opinion, but it’s not about a relevant topic, it’s about them personally. It couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy – a real professional! :rolleyes:

[chadk66]

No, it hasn't and not even close. And it is very short sighted to think things done for the rest of the world are not in our own self interests. I'd say they pretty much always are. Cut yourself off and you will suddenly find yourself quite alone and that is not a good thing.

There used to be a thing called diplomacy. It has been replaced with screaming and demands. Showing a little respect for others isn't a bad thing. I guess that is thought poorly of by some now though. I do agree that this country should take better care of the veterans who have sustained either physical or mental injury. Unfortunately this is nothing remotely new.we spend more money on foreign aid than probably all other countries combined. don't tell me we aren't doing enough for the rest of the world.

[Tom]

Now he is just being a dick!

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8832/colin-kaepernicks-practice-socks-pig-cops-hat-james-barrett?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=restlesspatriot

The man is trash.good target, those ankles.
Some one, hit him there and end his career.
Guys like this deserve to be hurt, seriously hurt.

[Valuist]

My guess is they cut him after tonight's game. He'll play, so they don't risk injury to the guys they plan to keep. And they can always claim they cut him for performance, not just being a distraction.

[Parkview_Pirate]

There is no point discussing this with you further. If you are going on a site like that you are the converted and have no wish to think for yourself or learn. I don't really care what pieces of info they post, they will never give a complete and honest accounting of anything and will spin whatever they have to fit their own agenda. Plenty of left wing sites like that too if you think I only pick on alt right.

Seems ironic that the person who wishes we'd all become more "educated" and "think for themselves" simply dismisses entire web sites that don't meet his approval. Sounds pretty close-minded to me. The link contained the emails from the DNC, which have now raised the ire of the Black Lives Matter group.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/01/black-lives-matter-accuses-dems-placating-group-after-tactics-memo-leaked.html

They describe the memos as pacifying, but I'd describe it as racially motivated manipulation, and some blacks are now figuring out how they've been hustled all these years for their votes. Since Obama is de facto leader of the Dems, it's pretty straight-forward to label him a racist for allowing that - and one of several reasons he gets no respect from me.

You're coming across as a frustrated social justice warrior who's miffed that not everyone shares your level of indoctrination. And if you think that wishing and hoping is going to set the table for more pleasant and fruitful dialogue in this country on race relations and other problems, I think you're in for disappointment. I would like to see our country less polarized, but that's not in the cards generally, as empires decline.

Oh - and for the record, I'd hardly describe myself as "converted" to the infowars web site and their conspiracies. I visit many different types of sites to attempt to get the facts, for further interpretation. But unlike yourself, I simply don't take what the DNC or the RNC or the MSM attempts to spoon feed us, nor do I accuse others of being racist for simply expressing an opinion...

[Parkview_Pirate]

The man is trash.good target, those ankles.
Some one, hit him there and end his career.
Guys like this deserve to be hurt, seriously hurt.

Now Tom, that seems a bit over the top.

What's hard to believe is that the NFL doesn't have rules to prohibit that, even in a practice.

Personally, I think it's ironic that one of the wealthiest black men in the country is speaking out against oppression, fully exercising his 1st Amendment rights. Go figure. Even though I'd agree with him that oppression is still a problem in this country for minorities, I can't help but think he's doing it for attention.

Either that, or his woman has him firmly by the short ones.

[chadk66]

Now Tom, that seems a bit over the top.

What's hard to believe is that the NFL doesn't have rules to prohibit that, even in a practice.

Personally, I think it's ironic that one of the wealthiest black men in the country is speaking out against oppression, fully exercising his 1st Amendment rights. Go figure. Even though I'd agree with him that oppression is still a problem in this country for minorities, I can't help but think he's doing it for attention.

Either that, or his woman has him firmly by the short ones.The NFL may very well use him to set an example. I hope they do.

[Inner Dirt]

The man is trash.good target, those ankles.
Some one, hit him there and end his career.
Guys like this deserve to be hurt, seriously hurt.

The remaining years on his contract are only guaranteed for injury every April 1st. Getting hurt bad enough to be out over 7 months puts another $15 mil or so in his pocket he doesn't deserve. Let him finish tonight healthy and then get cut and no one picks him up.

[Grits]

The Panthers and the Steelers all, just a few minutes ago in Charlotte, STOOD, for the National Anthem.

....What time is Colin supposed to make an appearance? Isn't it Military Appreciation Night where they are tonight? I believe I heard Navy Seals were dropping out of the sky before the game. I could be wrong..correct me, if so.

[OTM Al]

Seems ironic that the person who wishes we'd all become more "educated" and "think for themselves" simply dismisses entire web sites that don't meet his approval. Sounds pretty close-minded to me. The link contained the emails from the DNC, which have now raised the ire of the Black Lives Matter group.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/01/black-lives-matter-accuses-dems-placating-group-after-tactics-memo-leaked.html

They describe the memos as pacifying, but I'd describe it as racially motivated manipulation, and some blacks are now figuring out how they've been hustled all these years for their votes. Since Obama is de facto leader of the Dems, it's pretty straight-forward to label him a racist for allowing that - and one of several reasons he gets no respect from me.

You're coming across as a frustrated social justice warrior who's miffed that not everyone shares your level of indoctrination. And if you think that wishing and hoping is going to set the table for more pleasant and fruitful dialogue in this country on race relations and other problems, I think you're in for disappointment. I would like to see our country less polarized, but that's not in the cards generally, as empires decline.

Oh - and for the record, I'd hardly describe myself as "converted" to the infowars web site and their conspiracies. I visit many different types of sites to attempt to get the facts, for further interpretation. But unlike yourself, I simply don't take what the DNC or the RNC or the MSM attempts to spoon feed us, nor do I accuse others of being racist for simply expressing an opinion...
It's nice you aren't converted to trash. If you would have even cited the standard level biased news sites I may have taken you seriously, but citing info wars right out of the box makes you look like a loonie. Just a bit of advice there.

I do always love how people get so defensive and accusatory when they are questioned. Makes me wonder if you really are exactly what you say you aren't. Don't know why you seem to think I take anyone's word on these issues other than your need to justify yourself.

BTW saying that he is one of the richest black men in the country is a pretty ignorant statement. He isn't close. And I don't think you understand what irony is either. And you make it seem wrong that he is speaking out, though you did get it right about the 1st amendment being about speech and expression, it really isn't relevant here because there is no law against what he did and the government wasn't threatening to do anything about him. You are right though, he does want attention to the issue, he actually said that. Of course you also seem to imply he is unable to think for himself which is also a very interesting statement. So your overall grade here is a D. You may read a bit but you aren't seeing through the talking points.

[barahona44]

My guess is they cut him after tonight's game. He'll play, so they don't risk injury to the guys they plan to keep. And they can always claim they cut him for performance, not just being a distraction.
They have to pay him the 11 million regardless and then also pay a backup QB, so Kaepernik is going nowhere.Blaine Gabbert isn't on the road to Canton, so chances are CK will be playing and probably starting for the 49ers sooner or later.

[Robert Fischer]

At least 3 players 'sat' tonight during the anthem

Kaepernick

Eric Reid - Kaepernick 49ers teammate , intentional

Jeremy Lane - Seahawks , have yet to read statement, assume solidarity

[PaceAdvantage]

I've said this before (not here I don't think), but there will come a day when the American Flag is seen and treated by a significant portion of Americans in the same way as the confederate flag is seen and treated today.

And this is said not in some sort of defense of the confederate flag, so please don't read it that way.

It's said in an attempt to point out where this insane political correctness is steering us all...

[ReplayRandall]

I've said this before (not here I don't think), but there will come a day when the American Flag is seen and treated by a significant portion of Americans in the same way as the confederate flag is seen and treated today.

And this is said not in some sort of defense of the confederate flag, so please don't read it that way.

It's said in an attempt to point out where this insane political correctness is steering us all...

If we continue on this insane liberal path we've been on, there will only be ONE flag, that of a New World Order. No more countries, only regional zones, with a One World Govt. directing our lives. I won't go into further detail at this time, because there's a chance to stop the process, dead in it's tracks. However, I think it might be a done deal, as Trump has delivered the message, but he's fighting an uphill battle against even his own party, which has been bought and sold, long ago.......There still is time, but not much left in the hourglass, until our destruction as a nation is complete...

[PaceAdvantage]

That's one theory as to why there might be some concerted effort to discredit symbols like the American flag.

[Fager Fan]

They have to pay him the 11 million regardless and then also pay a backup QB, so Kaepernik is going nowhere.Blaine Gabbert isn't on the road to Canton, so chances are CK will be playing and probably starting for the 49ers sooner or later.

Surely there is something in the contract that lets an owner out if a player isn't a "good citizen" and is hurting the team.

This guy and Beyonce are slime.

[Tom]

The remaining years on his contract are only guaranteed for injury every April 1st. Getting hurt bad enough to be out over 7 months puts another $15 mil or so in his pocket he doesn't deserve. Let him finish tonight healthy and then get cut and no one picks him up.

good point.
What a bit and curb-stomp him in some parking lot.

[Tom]

I've said this before (not here I don't think), but there will come a day when the American Flag is seen and treated by a significant portion of Americans in the same way as the confederate flag is seen and treated today.

And this is said not in some sort of defense of the confederate flag, so please don't read it that way.

It's said in an attempt to point out where this insane political correctness is steering us all...

AINOs.
American in name only.
No REAL American will be swayed by the liberal lies.

The flag stands for too much to too many.
Anyone dishing the flag identifies themselves as an enemy, and more importantly, a target. Take that to mean whatever you like.

But any random flag has more meaning and more value than a great many lives. Real Americans died to protect it. Those who want to defame should be charged the same.

Fair Trade.

[Tom]

At least 3 players 'sat' tonight during the anthem

Kaepernick

Eric Reid - Kaepernick 49ers teammate , intentional

Jeremy Lane - Seahawks , have yet to read statement, assume solidarity

All three crawled out of the same scum pond.
Any team with any integrity ( :lol: ) would have sent them back to the locker room and terminated their contracts after the game.

The NFL, that great bastion of.......lying thieves.

[OTM Al]

I've said this before (not here I don't think), but there will come a day when the American Flag is seen and treated by a significant portion of Americans in the same way as the confederate flag is seen and treated today.

And this is said not in some sort of defense of the confederate flag, so please don't read it that way.

It's said in an attempt to point out where this insane political correctness is steering us all...
I don't think so at all. Kaepernick clearly stated that he wanted the flag to truly stand for what it is supposed to. I don't think anyone would say the same thing about the confederate flag except for those guys that like to wear white hoods. I, unlike many around here it seems, think that a dialogue amongst different ideas, many of which I don't agree with, are the only way to move forward. I don't want everyone to think, say, do the same things. I don't want to agree with everyone nor do i want them all to agree with me.

I think you are confusing the need to address actual social issues with statements of what certain individuals want. People have always made such statements, just our modern technology now lets them be broadcast widely in support of this agenda or that and the more ridiculous, the more likely it gets played. Just look at the ridiculousness of that college student that was posted about above. Just plain stupid. But think what it is being used for. Think what this agenda is. I see an outright attack on free thought and expression by trying to make college look like a worthless venture. I don't happen to agree with that.

Let's take an example or two of things that are PC. Do you think giving the rights they should have always had to gay people was PC run amok? Remember a guy named Jeffrey Dahmer? Remember how the police actually had him and an eventual victim who was bleeding and distraught released because it was just a silly gay tiff? You wonder if they would have properly treated it as a domestic dispute they may have looked just a little bit closer? Do you believe if the victim was a pretty white woman instead of an Asian man they might have asked a few more questions? But they didn't and more people died.

Or how about St. Reagan's non-acknowledgement of that gay disease AIDS? How many people died in this country that didn't have to because who really cared about those people anyway?

I don't like PC either but I don't think it is for the same reason as most. I don't like the phoniness of trying to win influence by having to say the right thing. But I absolutely do believe we need to treat others as we expect to be and that they should all have the same protection under the law, which is what it is supposed to be about. Just like what the flag is supposed to be about. It's not an easy path to that but it is worth the effort.

[Clocker]

Pictures of Colin Kaepernick at a press conference wearing a Malcolm X hat and a tee shirt featuring Malcolm X and Fidel Castro, and at practice wearing socks that depict cops as pigs.

The guy has gone bonkers and thinks he is living in the '60s.

http://www.snopes.com/kaepernick-wears-castro-t-shirt/ (http://www.snopes.com/kaepernick-wears-castro-t-shirt/)

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/09/01/colin-kaepernick-let-explain-socks-show-police-officers-pigs/

[Grits]

Clocker, yes, he is living in the mid to late 60s.

He looks like Sly, with his blown out afro, and taking up the habit of "Thank You For Lettin' Me Be Myself."

He just makes more money than Sly and The Family Stone ever dreamed of making singing those lyrics along with their other hits of that time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk0Wi1QkJgg

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't think so at all. Kaepernick clearly stated that he wanted the flag to truly stand for what it is supposed to. I don't think anyone would say the same thing about the confederate flag except for those guys that like to wear white hoods. I, unlike many around here it seems, think that a dialogue amongst different ideas, many of which I don't agree with, are the only way to move forward. I don't want everyone to think, say, do the same things. I don't want to agree with everyone nor do i want them all to agree with me.

I think you are confusing the need to address actual social issues with statements of what certain individuals want. People have always made such statements, just our modern technology now lets them be broadcast widely in support of this agenda or that and the more ridiculous, the more likely it gets played. Just look at the ridiculousness of that college student that was posted about above. Just plain stupid. But think what it is being used for. Think what this agenda is. I see an outright attack on free thought and expression by trying to make college look like a worthless venture. I don't happen to agree with that.

Let's take an example or two of things that are PC. Do you think giving the rights they should have always had to gay people was PC run amok? Remember a guy named Jeffrey Dahmer? Remember how the police actually had him and an eventual victim who was bleeding and distraught released because it was just a silly gay tiff? You wonder if they would have properly treated it as a domestic dispute they may have looked just a little bit closer? Do you believe if the victim was a pretty white woman instead of an Asian man they might have asked a few more questions? But they didn't and more people died.

Or how about St. Reagan's non-acknowledgement of that gay disease AIDS? How many people died in this country that didn't have to because who really cared about those people anyway?

I don't like PC either but I don't think it is for the same reason as most. I don't like the phoniness of trying to win influence by having to say the right thing. But I absolutely do believe we need to treat others as we expect to be and that they should all have the same protection under the law, which is what it is supposed to be about. Just like what the flag is supposed to be about. It's not an easy path to that but it is worth the effort.I don't agree that advocating gay rights is being politically correct. It's a little more substantial than that then just falling under the PC banner. I say if gay people want to find the joys or suffer through the pains that is marriage, go for it. I think on a practical level it's silly to be "against" gay marriage or gay rights. I'm not even sure what gay rights mean other than then the "right" to be married and enjoy whatever privileges come with that.

But I'm getting down into the weeds when you were in fact trying to paint a broader picture.

And as for "St Reagan," there you go again.

To further digress from your broader point, I have to ask...if Reagan wasn't a saint because of the way he ignored the AIDS crisis early on, does that make George W. Bush a saint to you because he committed significant resources towards the fight against AIDS in Africa and was successful in his endeavors?

I didn't think so... :lol:

[barahona44]

Demarcus "Boogie" Cousins, Sacramento Kings forward and rarely the first word in maturity, is sponsoring a panel discussion this weekend in his hometown of Mobile, Alabama to strengthen relationships between the Mobile Police and the people of Mobile (called "Break the Silence, Build the Trust") followed by a block party so everybody gets to know each other.

Apparently something like that is not attention seeking enough for Kaepernik.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/09/demarcus_cousin_holding_police.html

[Grits]

Let's be fair. Maybe not, but he's going to give $1,000,000 to select charitable organizations that benefit at risk individuals and neighborhoods. This cannot be seen as a bad thing...at least, not in my mind. Then too, he's got plenty more where that came from. Still, he's doing something besides, literally, sitting.

[barahona44]

Let's be fair. Maybe not, but he's going to give $1,000,000 to select charitable organizations that benefit at risk individuals and neighborhoods. This cannot be seen as a bad thing...at least, not in my mind. Then too, he's got plenty more where that came from. Still, he's doing something besides, literally, sitting.
But he did this AFTER the criticism.I , for one, would have been more impressed if he had done this at the same time of the protests.The only reason I am tolerating Kaepernik (not that he needs my approval) is that he didn't publicize his protest at first,but did it quietly.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Let's be fair. Maybe not, but he's going to give $1,000,000 to select charitable organizations that benefit at risk individuals and neighborhoods. This cannot be seen as a bad thing...at least, not in my mind. Then too, he's got plenty more where that came from. Still, he's doing something besides, literally, sitting.

I hadn't read that in any of the ten billion articles daily about everything from his hair to his socks. If that's the case, then I don't have much complaint any longer. Though usually I appreciate the guy or gal that gives charitably without drawing attention to himself, in this case I wish he'd deflect the attention to the fact that those like him in his position and ability to do so can use the spotlight to set this sort of example for those with the means. I kind of like the story about "Boogie" a little better as a way to address his specific gripe and bring attention to something that could be productive to help remedy that gripe, but in the end, I just want to see the guy lead by example and be productive with the attention. If it helps others in his boat to realize the benefit of 'giving back' with charity, I can't bitch much about that.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

The bottom line for this fool is that he will find out that $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ will be the great equalizer. If the 49ers lose money there will be consequences and that's a fact!!

[OTM Al]

I don't agree that advocating gay rights is being politically correct. It's a little more substantial than that then just falling under the PC banner. I say if gay people want to find the joys or suffer through the pains that is marriage, go for it. I think on a practical level it's silly to be "against" gay marriage or gay rights. I'm not even sure what gay rights mean other than then the "right" to be married and enjoy whatever privileges come with that.

But I'm getting down into the weeds when you were in fact trying to paint a broader picture.

And as for "St Reagan," there you go again.

To further digress from your broader point, I have to ask...if Reagan wasn't a saint because of the way he ignored the AIDS crisis early on, does that make George W. Bush a saint to you because he committed significant resources towards the fight against AIDS in Africa and was successful in his endeavors?

I didn't think so... :lol:
It means he helped do the right thing. C'mon, can't I needle you a little anymore? BTW all gay rights means is they get the same protections under law as a citizen of the US is supposed to be guaranteed. They certainly were not and still don't 100% but it is better.

[Tom]

Any A hole can sit and complain.
when that A hole has the wealth thins on has at his disposal, the time to whine is over.

The time to DO SOMETHING has arrived.

This Pig is not committed enough to actually get involved and do something constructive. Just cry like a little girl that someone ELSE should do something about it. Shit goes for 10 cents a pound. This guy is worth a lot of crap.

This guy is trash. Put him out by the curb with the rest of the garbage.

[PaceAdvantage]

It means he helped do the right thing. C'mon, can't I needle you a little anymore? BTW all gay rights means is they get the same protections under law as a citizen of the US is supposed to be guaranteed. They certainly were not and still don't 100% but it is better.People needle me all the time on here, and then some. I'm used to it...have no problem with it...and will needle back when I can... :lol:

[JustRalph]

I don't think so at all. Kaepernick clearly stated that he wanted the flag to truly stand for what it is supposed to. I don't think anyone would say the same thing about the confederate flag except for those guys that like to wear white hoods. I, unlike many around here it seems, think that a dialogue amongst different ideas, many of which I don't agree with, are the only way to move forward. I don't want everyone to think, say, do the same things. I don't want to agree with everyone nor do i want them all to agree with me.

I think you are confusing the need to address actual social issues with statements of what certain individuals want. People have always made such statements, just our modern technology now lets them be broadcast widely in support of this agenda or that and the more ridiculous, the more likely it gets played. Just look at the ridiculousness of that college student that was posted about above. Just plain stupid. But think what it is being used for. Think what this agenda is. I see an outright attack on free thought and expression by trying to make college look like a worthless venture. I don't happen to agree with that.

Let's take an example or two of things that are PC. Do you think giving the rights they should have always had to gay people was PC run amok? Remember a guy named Jeffrey Dahmer? Remember how the police actually had him and an eventual victim who was bleeding and distraught released because it was just a silly gay tiff? You wonder if they would have properly treated it as a domestic dispute they may have looked just a little bit closer? Do you believe if the victim was a pretty white woman instead of an Asian man they might have asked a few more questions? But they didn't and more people died.

Or how about St. Reagan's non-acknowledgement of that gay disease AIDS? How many people died in this country that didn't have to because who really cared about those people anyway?

I don't like PC either but I don't think it is for the same reason as most. I don't like the phoniness of trying to win influence by having to say the right thing. But I absolutely do believe we need to treat others as we expect to be and that they should all have the same protection under the law, which is what it is supposed to be about. Just like what the flag is supposed to be about. It's not an easy path to that but it is worth the effort.

There is no "need" for the Federal government to address social issues. That's not the governments job. The Federal government has made college useless by jacking up the prices via the loan programs and free giveaways. Tuition went up right along with the amounts that students could borrow. There is a point where the diminishing returns make every expenditure unprofitable.

Add in the fact that the government has done nothing but hurt job growth for ten years or more and you end up with a bunch of theoretically smart people sitting in moms basement eating Cheetos and working forty hours a week to conquer the next big PS4 title and swiping left or right for another forty hours hoping for a meaningless hookup.

On Reagan and AIDS. I was working in a hospital 87-89. One of my jobs was spending time with dying AIDS patients and their families. I did it 2-3 days a week for up to 8 hours a day. After Reagan asked Feinstein to close the bath houses and she basically told him to **** off, then the vocal gay community screamed when Reagan asked the FAA to put restrictions on flight attendants and pilots. They would have to identify they were gay (they were spreading AIDS all over the damn world and didn't give a shit) and that suggestion never made it out of Washington as a question to be asked. The different unions screamed, he backed off. you have to remember this was a time where self identifying as gay was unheard of, almost.

So you can go after Reagan on AIDS but early on he tried and got an earful back at him. I spent hours talking with gay men as they lay dying. I never heard one blame Reagan or the government. They mostly blamed themselves. Their families were a different story. They wanted AIDS to be a national priority. Of course the gay community wasn't as well received and they weren't exactly PR experts when it came to their own cause.

Btw, just for context. The reason I spent so much time with these patients? They were in locked rooms with controlled access. Just like prisoners. I was a hospital cop. They were not allowed to leave their rooms and neither were their identified partners. Even their family members were restricted early on. It was a shitty shitty time.

On Jeffy boy Dahmer....... Bad police work happens every day in America.....

[Tom]

Great post, Ralph.

[Clocker]

There is no "need" for the Federal government to address social issues. That's not the governments job.

The vast majority of what the federal government does is not the government's job.

Government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem. -- Ronald Reagan

[barahona44]

If Reagan was so anti government, why did he run for governor of California twice and President FOUR times?

He didn't mind one bit sticking his snout in the trough.

Exhibit A why you should never trust politicians to make your life better.They will tell you what you want to hear to get your vote.

[OTM Al]

There is no "need" for the Federal government to address social issues. That's not the governments job. The Federal government has made college useless by jacking up the prices via the loan programs and free giveaways. Tuition went up right along with the amounts that students could borrow. There is a point where the diminishing returns make every expenditure unprofitable.

Add in the fact that the government has done nothing but hurt job growth for ten years or more and you end up with a bunch of theoretically smart people sitting in moms basement eating Cheetos and working forty hours a week to conquer the next big PS4 title and swiping left or right for another forty hours hoping for a meaningless hookup.

On Reagan and AIDS. I was working in a hospital 87-89. One of my jobs was spending time with dying AIDS patients and their families. I did it 2-3 days a week for up to 8 hours a day. After Reagan asked Feinstein to close the bath houses and she basically told him to **** off, then the vocal gay community screamed when Reagan asked the FAA to put restrictions on flight attendants and pilots. They would have to identify they were gay (they were spreading AIDS all over the damn world and didn't give a shit) and that suggestion never made it out of Washington as a question to be asked. The different unions screamed, he backed off. you have to remember this was a time where self identifying as gay was unheard of, almost.

So you can go after Reagan on AIDS but early on he tried and got an earful back at him. I spent hours talking with gay men as they lay dying. I never heard one blame Reagan or the government. They mostly blamed themselves. Their families were a different story. They wanted AIDS to be a national priority. Of course the gay community wasn't as well received and they weren't exactly PR experts when it came to their own cause.

Btw, just for context. The reason I spent so much time with these patients? They were in locked rooms with controlled access. Just like prisoners. I was a hospital cop. They were not allowed to leave their rooms and neither were their identified partners. Even their family members were restricted early on. It was a shitty shitty time.

On Jeffy boy Dahmer....... Bad police work happens every day in America.....

Your first statement is interesting. So you would say then there was no need for the Civil Rights Act? It was fine then in your opinion for the continuation of segregation and Jim Crow laws to continue? I could go on but that says enough on that subject.

As to the gay rights issues, I think you miss the entire context of what was happening in that community post Stonewall in 1969. That created the knowledge that they could organize and could fight for the rights all of us are supposed to have. By the mid 70s gays were feeling liberated, that they could self identify and not be ostracized. Then came the AIDS crisis. Yes, at first many were resistant as they did not understand the disease and thought the government was lying to them to take back what they so recently had gained. This is then another example where we needed government to step in and act like a leader, to close down the bathhouses and to get the message out with facts about what is going on. Instead, funding was blocked repeatedly and Mr. Reagan did nothing. Thousands were dead before he even said the word "AIDS" in public. That is not leadership. I also find your painting of individuals not caring that they were spreading the disease equal to saying all of a race are criminal. This was typical anti-gay rhetoric of the time. But enough on that as is is going far afield of the topic.

[Robert Fischer]

Stephen A Smith had some interesting observations in some of the recent ESPN First Take Segments.

He mentioned that Kaepernick's comments were 'polarizing' he contrasted that to Melo/Cp3/Wade/Lebron's recent ESPY speech, saying that the latter spoke to the cause while saying things everyone could agree with.

[tucker6]

Your first statement is interesting. So you would say then there was no need for the Civil Rights Act? It was fine then in your opinion for the continuation of segregation and Jim Crow laws to continue? I could go on but that says enough on that subject.

You know Ralph isn't saying that. To those of us that believe in the least amount of govt intrusion into our private lives, it is sad that we long ago allowed less than 600 people to rule our lives so completely. That includes Congress, the White House, and the Supreme Court. The complete rewriting of the Constitution time and again no longer requires amendments to the Constitution. The Supremes just reinterpret as they see fit.

To some, the large amount of govt oversight into our lives is needed. After all, everyone should have the same belief system and any moral code not in keeping with the "greater good" should be stamped out. Right?! Personal responsibility and charity has been replaced by govt edicts and programs. So to answer your question, the govt should ensure that everyone has the same opportunity to succeed in our society and no more!! Discrimination is a crime. But get the hell out of the bedroom. Get out of the abortion business pro or con. Stop managing resources via taxation and grants to attempt to re engineer society to some chosen goal. The govt should not be in the business of re educating society to a predefined point. Just because one party and ideology has 53% of the country's vote doesn't mean we should step on the necks of the other 47%. What goes around will come around.

[OTM Al]

You know Ralph isn't saying that. To those of us that believe in the least amount of govt intrusion into our private lives, it is sad that we long ago allowed less than 600 people to rule our lives so completely. That includes Congress, the White House, and the Supreme Court. The complete rewriting of the Constitution time and again no longer requires amendments to the Constitution. The Supremes just reinterpret as they see fit.

To some, the large amount of govt oversight into our lives is needed. After all, everyone should have the same belief system and any moral code not in keeping with the "greater good" should be stamped out. Right?! Personal responsibility and charity has been replaced by govt edicts and programs. So to answer your question, the govt should ensure that everyone has the same opportunity to succeed in our society and no more!! Discrimination is a crime. But get the hell out of the bedroom. Get out of the abortion business pro or con. Stop managing resources via taxation and grants to attempt to re engineer society to some chosen goal. The govt should not be in the business of re educating society to a predefined point. Just because one party and ideology has 53% of the country's vote doesn't mean we should step on the necks of the other 47%. What goes around will come around.
You do realize that drafters of the Constitution believed it should be revised and rewritten on a regular basis, which of course has never happened. It is not intended to be a static document, but that is an easy path. The rest of your argument is fairly weak. You say the government should intervene but then limit its ability to do so. What if it has to do the things you are against to give equal opportunity? What then? How else can resources be managed in any meaningful way? Taxation and grants affect incentives which are the only thing that will cause people to behave in desired ways. Laws alone don't do that unless you just want to put everyone in jail.

[chadk66]

You do realize that drafters of the Constitution believed it should be revised and rewritten on a regular basis, which of course has never happened. It is not intended to be a static document, but that is an easy path. The rest of your argument is fairly weak. You say the government should intervene but then limit its ability to do so. What if it has to do the things you are against to give equal opportunity? What then? How else can resources be managed in any meaningful way? Taxation and grants affect incentives which are the only thing that will cause people to behave in desired ways. Laws alone don't do that unless you just want to put everyone in jail.Curious what makes you think the drafters felt it should be rewritten on a regular basis.

[OTM Al]

Curious what makes you think the drafters felt it should be rewritten on a regular basis.
Autobiographies.

[Clocker]

How else can resources be managed in any meaningful way? Taxation and grants affect incentives which are the only thing that will cause people to behave in desired ways.

Why do we need to manage people in any meaningful way other than to prevent them from infringing the rights of others?

It is tax laws that led to a very high percentage of people getting their health insurance from their employers. Now the feds think that is a bad thing and are trying to reverse that situation because they have determined that people don't understand that ObamaCare is what is in their best interests.

It is tax laws and federal interference in the mortgage market that led to the sub-prime housing bubble, financially ruining many people.

It is government interference in the student loan market that has driven up student debt, the cost of tuition, and a glut of graduates with degrees that are not marketable.

If the government left people and free markets alone, people could do a better job of deciding what is good for them than a bunch of 'elites' in Washington.

[Tom]

You do realize that drafters of the Constitution believed it should be revised and rewritten on a regular basis, which of course has never happened.

And they provided the means to do so.
Those means did not include mocking police and dishing the flag or other childish actions embraced the lackies on the left. If there was any substance to their claims of racism and discrimination, why have they not taken advantage of those means? Too lazy? Too stupid?

Originally Posted by OTM Al
How else can resources be managed in any meaningful way? Taxation and grants affect incentives which are the only thing that will cause people to behave in desired ways.

Desired behaviour?
Right out of Hitler's playbook.

It is not the roll of ANY government to have desire behaviors. The only role of government is to protect the rights of the PEOPLE behave as they desire.

[Clocker]

You do realize that drafters of the Constitution believed it should be revised and rewritten on a regular basis, which of course has never happened.

It has been revised 27 times through the amendment process. Six more amendments to the Constitution passed by Congress were never ratified by the states. Over 10,000 proposed amendments introduced in Congress were never passed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proposed_amendments_to_the_United_States_C onstitution#Unratified_Amendments

[Clocker]

Desired behaviour?
Right out of Hitler's playbook.

It is not the roll of ANY government to have desire behaviors.

Not even if the people don't know what is good for them? :eek:

[chadk66]

Autobiographies.:lol:

[Clocker]

Many off-duty police officers provide security for 49er games, including a large number from Santa Clara.

In a letter obtained by KNTV, the Santa Clara police union told the 49ers organization that officers wouldn’t work at the stadium if it doesn’t “take action” against Kaepernick over his protest. The station noted that about 70 Santa Clara police officers work eight home games per year.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/09/03/santa-clara-police-threaten-to-boycott-49ers-games-in-wake-kaepernick-controversy.html (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/09/03/santa-clara-police-threaten-to-boycott-49ers-games-in-wake-kaepernick-controversy.html)

[tucker6]

Desired behaviour?
Right out of Hitler's playbook.

It is not the roll of ANY government to have desire behaviors. The only role of government is to protect the rights of the PEOPLE behave as they desire.
AMEN brother. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Many off-duty police officers provide security for 49er games, including a large number from Santa Clara.

Good.
Let the 49ers hire BLM to do security. :rolleyes:

[OTM Al]

And they provided the means to do so.
Those means did not include mocking police and dishing the flag or other childish actions embraced the lackies on the left. If there was any substance to their claims of racism and discrimination, why have they not taken advantage of those means? Too lazy? Too stupid?



Desired behaviour?
Right out of Hitler's playbook.

It is not the roll of ANY government to have desire behaviors. The only role of government is to protect the rights of the PEOPLE behave as they desire.
I see, so according to this then the role of the government is to protect behaviors that allow discrimination and exclusion. Many people desire to do those things so you think the government should not only allow it but protect such behavior? All governments have always attempted to elicit desired behaviors from the populace so this is simply ridiculous.

[OTM Al]

:lol:
I see, so the actual words of the authors are meaningless to you...or is it that you don't know what an autobiography is?

BTW the Constitution has actually been added to only 18 times as any real American should know that the first ten, sometimes referred to as the Bill of Rights, were 10 of 12 suggested additions that were all added at the same time. Interestingly the 27th and latest of amendments was put forward at the same time as the first 10 but took 202 years to ratify.

Enough of this though as it has gone completely off track of the subject.

[chadk66]

I see, so the actual words of the authors are meaningless to you...or is it that you don't know what an autobiography is?

BTW the Constitution has actually been added to only 18 times as any real American should know that the first ten, sometimes referred to as the Bill of Rights, were 10 of 12 suggested additions that were all added at the same time. Interestingly the 27th and latest of amendments was put forward at the same time as the first 10 but took 202 years to ratify.

Enough of this though as it has gone completely off track of the subject.I'm sure you can link the quill pen writings of the person that did the autobiography :lol: Otherwise it's just a guess

[Tom]

I see, so according to this then the role of the government is to protect behaviors that allow discrimination and exclusion. Many people desire to do those things so you think the government should not only allow it but protect such behavior? All governments have always attempted to elicit desired behaviors from the populace so this is simply ridiculous.

So BS policies like Affirmative action - clearly discrimination - are good for anyone?

[OTM Al]

I'm sure you can link the quill pen writings of the person that did the autobiography :lol: Otherwise it's just a guess
I never cease to be amazed at how ignorant some people want to be. So assuming you ever read a book, then by this logic, how are you sure the listed author wrote it?

[OTM Al]

So BS policies like Affirmative action - clearly discrimination - are good for anyone?
You have decided that it is discrimination so what is the point trying to discuss? So I'm not going to bother anymore. You would be a far happier person I guess if everyone you don't like knew their place.

[chadk66]

I never cease to be amazed at how ignorant some people want to be. So assuming you ever read a book, then by this logic, how are you sure the listed author wrote it?so in other words they just made shit up. you base autobiography on facts. usually direct interviews or writings from actual interviews.

[Tom]

I am happy when they don't know MY place.

Of course it is discrimination.
Ands the football player is 100% idiot scum.
The world is really simple when you understand things are black and white in many cases. There is NO excuse for his actions.
Don't look for any.

[OTM Al]

so in other words they just made shit up. you base autobiography on facts. usually direct interviews or writings from actual interviews.
I didn't think you knew what autobiography was and you just proved it. Good work.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

so in other words they just made shit up. you base autobiography on facts. usually direct interviews or writings from actual interviews.

You are describing a biography. An AUTObiography can be 100% bullshit and nobody would know.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

I checked the Jets and Giants schedule to see if the 49ers were coming to NJ. They are not. I was wondering if the state police would boycott the games.

In NJ, the Jets and Giants pay big bucks to the state police for intensive security. I'm not sure if the state police honchos would allow the troopers to boycott.

[OTM Al]

You are describing a biography. An AUTObiography can be 100% bullshit and nobody would know.
Other than, of course, that the author actually said something directly about himself, which was the point here.

[RunForTheRoses]

Other than, of course, that the author actually said something directly about himself, which was the point here.

I hear ya:


That was the problem with people like Joyce. They talked about the richness of their multicultural heritage and it sounded real good, until you noticed that they avoided black people. ... To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.

... But this strategy alone couldn't provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so-called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerated. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.



Tim was not a conscious brother. Tim wore argyle sweaters and pressed jeans and talked like Beaver Cleaver. He planned to major in business. His white girlfriend was probably waiting for him up in his room, listening to country music.
I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites[.]

-The Great Obammy in Dreams of My Father

[newtothegame]

I hear ya:


That was the problem with people like Joyce. They talked about the richness of their multicultural heritage and it sounded real good, until you noticed that they avoided black people. ... To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.

... But this strategy alone couldn't provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so-called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerated. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.



Tim was not a conscious brother. Tim wore argyle sweaters and pressed jeans and talked like Beaver Cleaver. He planned to major in business. His white girlfriend was probably waiting for him up in his room, listening to country music.
I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites[.]

-The Great Obammy in Dreams of My Father




Amazing how that works huh? :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[chadk66]

I didn't think you knew what autobiography was and you just proved it. Good work.I figured you had nothing:D

[chadk66]

You are describing a biography. An AUTObiography can be 100% bullshit and nobody would know.And that's just what it is. I assumed he meant biography because he would know this but I guess not.

[OTM Al]

Amazing how that works huh? :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
Not really.

[Tom]

His white girlfriend was probably waiting for him up in his room, listening to country music.

Typical Black racist president.

What if Trump said Obama is probably home at he WH, with his wife, barfoot and jiving to rap music?

[RunForTheRoses]

Typical Black racist president.

What if Trump said Obama is probably home at he WH, with his wife, barfoot and jiving to rap music?

Well, you can't fully fault Obamallama Ding Dong, he didn't write it:

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/did-bill-ayers-write-obamas-book/

[JustRalph]

Your first statement is interesting. So you would say then there was no need for the Civil Rights Act? It was fine then in your opinion for the continuation of segregation and Jim Crow laws to continue? I could go on but that says enough on that subject.

50 yrs ago? Sure there was a need. The fair housing act probably as important. But this isn't 1964 and the government has progressed into telling people what bathroom to use etc. not to mention countless other areas.

As to the gay rights issues, I think you miss the entire context of what was happening in that community post Stonewall in 1969. That created the knowledge that they could organize and could fight for the rights all of us are supposed to have. By the mid 70s gays were feeling liberated, that they could self identify and not be ostracized. Then came the AIDS crisis. Yes, at first many were resistant as they did not understand the disease and thought the government was lying to them to take back what they so recently had gained.

They were wrong. And there were consequences.

This is then another example where we needed government to step in and act like a leader, to close down the bathhouses and to get the message out with facts about what is going on. Instead, funding was blocked repeatedly and Mr. Reagan did nothing.

He tried and was not only insulted, he was told to go away in not so polite terms. Feinstein and her gang of militant gays from San Fran weren't hearing it. What was he supposed to do? Send in the national guard? No way in hell a Federal court would have permitted it. Do not underestimate the horrible horrible results of Feinstein refusing. I spoke with Doctors who were pulling their hair out treating patients that would take junkets style trips to the bath houses even after they had been treated for what they were calling the "gay pneumonia"

Thousands were dead before he even said the word "AIDS" in public. That is not leadership.

You're using hindsight to indict.


I also find your painting of individuals not caring that they were spreading the disease equal to saying all of a race are criminal. This was typical anti-gay rhetoric of the time. But enough on that as is is going far afield of the topic.

I was specific. Airline employees. How is that broad indictment? They were in denial. Just like other gays. I knew people who were pilots and flight attendants. In fact they were spouses of people working in the hospital I was working in. The discussions we would have were downright scary. I participated in them. We had day long AIDS training every 90 days in the first few years. The airlines were trying like hell to get the info out. To caution their employees. Many took it personal. Were offended by it. It did not stop them from living a promiscuous lifestyle whilst flying all over the country and the world.



Answered

[newtothegame]

Not really.
So autobiographies are only credible when they fit your argument???
Surely you aren't suggesting that Obama's book isn't truthful are ya? :lol:

[barahona44]

Proving the old adage there's no such thing as bad publicity, Colin Kaepernik has the best selling jersey on the 49ers website, up from 20th a couple of weeks ago

And they were on clearance at the the end of last season.

http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Kaepernick-jersey-sales-soar-anthem-controversy-9202751.php

[reckless]

Other than, of course, that the author actually said something directly about himself, which was the point here.

Al... did you read Obama's autobiography? I didn't and ask only because Obama wrote that when he was younger he smoked a lot of weed and also took cocaine.

I figured if he wrote something like that about himself, as you say, then that too must be true, given the source.

Why do you think no one in the media and the press investigated this and sought the identity of Obama's dope dealer in 2008, 2012 or even now? You'll agree that the public has a right to know these things about their candidates.

[Parkview_Pirate]

It's nice you aren't converted to trash. If you would have even cited the standard level biased news sites I may have taken you seriously, but citing info wars right out of the box makes you look like a loonie. Just a bit of advice there.

Taking advice from you, based on your responses in this thread, hardly seems like a good idea. And in spite of your attempted deflection, you still missed the whole point of the link - which was the leaked emails from the DNC hacked from Pelosi's PC.

I do always love how people get so defensive and accusatory when they are questioned. Makes me wonder if you really are exactly what you say you aren't. Don't know why you seem to think I take anyone's word on these issues other than your need to justify yourself.

Not sure what to think here, other than responses like this make me think you're off your meds this week. I've simply responded to your claim that I must be a white supremacist for calling Obama a racist. And, since you have been lacking in a coherent response, the only thing I'm justified in doing is to continue to defend myself from your personal attacks. So sue me.

BTW saying that he is one of the richest black men in the country is a pretty ignorant statement. He isn't close.

I'd be willing to bet Mr. Kaepernick is in the 99th percentile for black males in the U.S. He's privileged, without a doubt, so the ignorance is squarely in your court. He's about as "black" as Bill Cosby.

And I don't think you understand what irony is either. And you make it seem wrong that he is speaking out, though you did get it right about the 1st amendment being about speech and expression, it really isn't relevant here because there is no law against what he did and the government wasn't threatening to do anything about him. You are right though, he does want attention to the issue, he actually said that. Of course you also seem to imply he is unable to think for himself which is also a very interesting statement. So your overall grade here is a D. You may read a bit but you aren't seeing through the talking points.

If I'm getting a 'D' from you, I must be doing something right - and ironically, have not fallen into the lefty indoctrination bucket like yourself. You've responded, ironically, with all the talking points used by the left to promote white guilt. You strike me as one of those who believe that racism is a one-way street, and cannot be committed by minorities.

I would add that questioning Kaepernick's ability to think for himself should absolutely be front and center here. Not only is he wanting attention to himself (as opposed to black oppression), he's got Bible verses tatoos but is now considering converting to Islam, which just happens to be the faith of his girlfriend/fiance. So why do you deduce he's an independent thinker?

[OTM Al]

So autobiographies are only credible when they fit your argument???
Surely you aren't suggesting that Obama's book isn't truthful are ya? :lol:
Not at all. It is what he said, no different than what I'm talking about. I guess you were trying to make some sort of point here, but all I can figure is that since you disagree with me I must, in your mind, therefore be some sort of hardcore Obama supporter. Would say your vision is pretty narrow there and you are quite wrong.

[OTM Al]

Al... did you read Obama's autobiography? I didn't and ask only because Obama wrote that when he was younger he smoked a lot of weed and also took cocaine.

I figured if he wrote something like that about himself, as you say, then that too must be true, given the source.

Why do you think no one in the media and the press investigated this and sought the identity of Obama's dope dealer in 2008, 2012 or even now? You'll agree that the public has a right to know these things about their candidates.
Guess it makes him much like George W Bush. Young people do dumb things. Nothing new here.

[OTM Al]

Answered
I do wish this was the type of response people would give rather than crying about being personally attacked. Oh well....anyway, I doubt we will make any more progress on this and likely should stop as it is way off topic now. Two final points I will make though. It was Feinstien herself who ordered the closings in 1984. It is as likely that this action made little difference though as it simply caused those, in denial as you say, to other venues. Some activists believed the closing to be counterproductive in that it took away a major point of contact to try to educate people. This is akin to the logic used when airports did not shut down arrivals from Africa during the recent Ebola outbreak as likewise behaviors would have changed in such a way that what measure of control there was would have been lost. Second, I will not go back on my accusation of the Reagan administration. Staff members are on the record as openly mocking the issue and the Surgeon General was cut out of any high level discussion on the issue. This is not leadership. Over 4000 had died before the word was uttered by the president including Rock Hudson, who was ignored when appealing to Nancy whom he had believed to be a close friend.

[MutuelClerk]

It's a good thing when I hear the anthem I think of country. I stand with my hand over my heart. If I thought of our inept, thieving government I would sit and fart in tune. Those of you so offended by Kaepernick's stance should be on twitter where being offended is a god like position. You are revered.

[PhantomOnTour]

US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe knelt during the national anthem before her league soccer match the other day.
She is gay and stands in solidarity with Kap in feeling that this country oppresses people.

Maybe she should exercise her need for attention on a more pressing issue...go take a knee on the south side of Chicago on a Saturday night

[johnhannibalsmith]

Who?

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

At a news conference in Asia this morning, President Obama was questioned on the Cap news. After saying he has no time for football and saying he hasn't followed it, he then shows he knows everything about the issue.

He then singles out veterans as the only ones who are upset by this moron.

Let me be clear. In this country, you have a right to prove you're a moron (hell, I do it every day), but Americans have the same right to define this asshole as exactly what he is.

[woodtoo]

At a news conference in Asia this morning, President Obama was questioned on the Cap news. After saying he has no time for football and saying he hasn't followed it, he then shows he knows everything about the issue.

He then singles out veterans as the only ones who are upset by this moron.

Let me be clear. In this country, you have a right to prove you're a moron (hell, I do it every day), but Americans have the same right to define this asshole as exactly what he is.
Which one? :D Cap or Obama.

[Tom]

US women's soccer star Megan Rapinoe knelt during the national anthem before her league soccer match the other day.
She is gay and stands in solidarity with Kap in feeling that this country oppresses people.

Maybe she should exercise her need for attention on a more pressing issue...go take a knee on the south side of Chicago on a Saturday night

What better way to REALLY show solidarity than to bleed out on a Chicago sidewalk.

I would respect her if she did.

[Tom]

He then singles out veterans as the only ones who are upset by this moron.

Veterans and Americans.
Two groups OBama knows nothing about nor gives a crap about.

Speaking of Obama, do you know what the training secret of Kenyan marathon runners is that had led them to so many victories?

Lions.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Would love to see these 2 fools in a fire fight with heavy fire and see if they would take the same "brave" stance by not standing for our great flag and the significance that it holds. USA Love it or leave it...and no BS that they love the country so much that they need to protest.

[Clocker]

At a news conference in Asia this morning, President Obama was questioned on the Cap news. After saying he has no time for football and saying he hasn't followed it, he then shows he knows everything about the issue.



I am shocked, shocked that Obama defended CK's right to protest.

Actually, I'm not a bit shocked.

https://pajamasmed.hs.llnwd.net/e12/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/obama_pledge_2007_9-5-16-1.jpg

[Inner Dirt]

I am shocked, shocked that Obama defended CK's right to protest.

Actually, I'm not a bit shocked.

https://pajamasmed.hs.llnwd.net/e12/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/obama_pledge_2007_9-5-16-1.jpg

What leader of any country has ever condoned someone disrespecting the country's flag? Could someone please list examples. As much as the idea of the hag being president makes me sick, maybe she won't seem so bad following Obama as he has set the bar so low an ant could not pass under it.

[zico20]

Coach John Tortorella of USA hockey came out and said that if any of the players did not stand for the anthem during the upcoming World Cup of Hockey that they would be benched. I like his attitude, however, it would never come to that because we are talking about hockey players, not football or basketball players.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/17487174/us-world-cup-coach-john-tortorella-stands-anthem-comments

[OTM Al]

Coach John Tortorella of USA hockey came out and said that if any of the players did not stand for the anthem during the upcoming World Cup of Hockey that they would be benched. I like his attitude, however, it would never come to that because we are talking about hockey players, not football or basketball players.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/17487174/us-world-cup-coach-john-tortorella-stands-anthem-comments
Given it is the national team, this seems a fair rule as well as a non-issue

[highnote]

What leader of any country has ever condoned someone disrespecting the country's flag? Could someone please list examples. As much as the idea of the hag being president makes me sick, maybe she won't seem so bad following Obama as he has set the bar so low an ant could not pass under it.

I can't remember ever crossing my hand over my heart during the national anthem. I wasn't raised by my parents to do that and my father was a WWII vet.

Plus, I have distant grandfathers who served in the army during the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. So it's not a matter of lack of pride or lack of a sense of heritage.

The national anthem only became so in 1931. My parents were born in 1925. So placing your hand over your heart might not have even been a thing in 1931 when my parents were growing up.

It certainly wouldn't have been a thing during the Civil War or Revolutionary War.

Who made up the rule that it is a requirement to put your hand over your heart and that it has some special meaning if you do? Why don't we salute, instead? It was our military that won our independence. You don't have to be in the military to salute, as far as I know. JFK's son saluted him when his casket passed by draped in an American flag.

The national anthem rituals remind me of the rituals at a Catholic mass. Sometimes people make the sign of the cross on their forehead and chest at one point in mass. Others do not do it. Some people drink the wine and eat the host during communion. Others only eat the host. Catholic masses go back way farther than the national anthem and they have not fixed anything in stone.

So to me, placing your hand on your heart during the national anthem is optional. And so is standing, for that matter. I stand.

It's not like this country had a national anthem from its inception. So if I did sit during the national anthem, it's not because I feel animosity toward the flag or country. It would be because I don't feel like standing.

But I've always been independent, rebellious, a non-conformist, and a contrarian. That's what I believe an American should be. That's how America won its freedom. God bless America!
:1: :2: :3:

[FantasticDan]

Kaepernick's jersey sales skyrocketed to the NFL's #1 seller in the week following the start of his protest. More of his gear sold in that one week than the previous :8: months combined. Kaepernick said he will be donating these profits to charitable causes..

[OTM Al]

I can't remember ever crossing my hand over my heart during the national anthem. I wasn't raised by my parents to do that and my father was a WWII vet.

Plus, I have distant grandfathers who served in the army during the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. So it's not a matter of lack of pride or lack of a sense of heritage.

The national anthem only became so in 1931. My parents were born in 1925. So placing your hand over your heart might not have even been a thing in 1931 when my parents were growing up.

It certainly wouldn't have been a thing during the Civil War or Revolutionary War.

Who made up the rule that it is a requirement to put your hand over your heart and that it has some special meaning if you do? Why don't we salute, instead? It was our military that won our independence. You don't have to be in the military to salute, as far as I know. JFK's son saluted him when his casket passed by draped in an American flag.

The national anthem rituals remind me of the rituals at a Catholic mass. Sometimes people make the sign of the cross on their forehead and chest at one point in mass. Others do not do it. Some people drink the wine and eat the host during communion. Others only eat the host. Catholic masses go back way farther than the national anthem and they have not fixed anything in stone.

So to me, placing your hand on your heart during the national anthem is optional. And so is standing, for that matter. I stand.

It's not like this country had a national anthem from its inception. So if I did sit during the national anthem, it's not because I feel animosity toward the flag or country. It would be because I don't feel like standing.

But I've always been independent, rebellious, a non-conformist, and a contrarian. That's what I believe an American should be. That's how America won its freedom. God bless America!
:1: :2: :3:
I don't know when this hand over heart thing started either. I was taught to stand quietly facing the flag.

[highnote]

I don't know when this hand over heart thing started either. I was taught to stand quietly facing the flag.

Not only that, I don't even particularly like the melody of the national anthem. It was adapted from an English drinking song. :rolleyes:

The national anthem is overused. Having to stand for the national anthem 3 or 4 times per week diminishes it's significance.

I like the words and music to "America the Beautiful" better -- it was written by Americans and it is a lot shorter:

O Beautiful, for spacious skies
for amber waves of grain
for purple mountain's majesty
above the fruited plain.

America, America
God shed his grace on thee.

And crown thy good
with brotherhood
from sea to shining sea

[rastajenk]

I'd like to hear more renditions of it that sound like the English drinking song. That one last night before the NFL game was hard on the ears. Divas should be prevented from singing the national anthem.

[delayjf]

I agree, it is a beautiful song. I love Ray Charles's version.

[thaskalos]

IMO...all national anthem renditions should be performed by military personnel. This "diva" thing has gone too far.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Thask - good idea.

[thaskalos]

These national hymns represent untold amounts of spilled blood...we should remember that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef2rUV9M-no

[highnote]

IMO...all national anthem renditions should be performed by military personnel. This "diva" thing has gone too far.


I have to admit, though... Lady Gaga did a nice job... a little over the top... but one of the better ones.

[Tom]

Robert Merrill.
XSODlfdx-7U

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Perhaps singers should realize that they don't need to make every song they sing "their own."

One thing I've always found a bit sad is when announcers say, "please rise and remove your hats for the singing of the national anthem." That should be something people do without having to be told, even though I still see plenty of people who don't take their hats off.

[Jess Hawsen Arown]

Not only that, I don't even particularly like the melody of the national anthem. It was adapted from an English drinking song. :rolleyes:

The national anthem is overused. Having to stand for the national anthem 3 or 4 times per week diminishes it's significance.

I like the words and music to "America the Beautiful" better -- it was written by Americans and it is a lot shorter:

O Beautiful, for spacious skies
for amber waves of grain
for purple mountain's majesty
above the fruited plain.

America, America
God shed his grace on thee.

And crown thy good
with brotherhood
from sea to shining sea

I understand where you are coming from, agree with your overall philosophy and have a slightly different take. Its a complex issue so that it is unlikely for all of us to be in lockstep -- so here is my personal view.

1) Any American can voice whatever opinion they have on anything. I find the reasoning behind not standing for the national anthem to be ignorant and clueless, and I can only hope I can have the opportunity to exercise my free speech some day so I can get in the face of these assholes and tell them what I think of them.

2) The national anthem was a poem and it should have remained a poem. I applaud the words and they should live forever. But NOT as a song that requires a talented singer to sing it properly. I love renditions by some great artists and I particularly love the Whitney Houston version.

But few can sing it properly and a national anthem should be something all citizens can sing and not struggle with the great range the song requires.

America the Beautiful is a good choice, but I vote for "I'm Proud To Be An American" by Lee Greenwood.

Anyone can sing it. Hard for an American not to well up when listening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps7xmW-9LXQ

"Proud To Be An American"

If tomorrow all the things were gone I'd worked for all my life,
And I had to start again with just my children and my wife.
I'd thank my lucky stars to be living here today,
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can't take that away.

And I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free.
And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I'd gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.

From the lakes of Minnesota, to the hills of Tennessee,
across the plains of Texas, from sea to shining sea,

From Detroit down to Houston and New York to LA,
Well, there's pride in every American heart,
and it's time to stand and say:

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free.
And I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I'd gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land God bless the U.S.A.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Perhaps singers should realize that they don't need to make every song they sing "their own."


So true.