If Bonds or Sosa tested positive for steroids....

[sq764]

If it were found that Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa used illegal steroids during the baseball season, would this diminish their accomplishments?

[chickenhead]

I'd have to say that their entire careers would be tainted. Which really underlines the stupidity of it, because assuming they are using steroids, they both would have had terrific careers anyway.

[Secretariat]

Any records they set would become null. Comparisions with other players would always be suspect. And the example set for youth is horrific.

[Valuist]

It would definitely diminish the accomplishments, IMO. But I don't think it would be fair just to single them out because they certainly aren't the only ones. If he is found to have used them, I think it takes Bonds out of the "greatest ever, or 5 greatest ever" talk. Still a Hall of Famer though. Sosa, if found guilty, will not be a Hall of Famer. But thats only if he is found guilty. I think Sammy is off them now; I think he's a little smaller and his production is down.

[chickenhead]

I can't believe the players union....if I was a player I would say screw it, and get tested twice a week. If that pisses the union off, tough.

[cj]

Not only their careers, but the whole era would be tainted. A-Rod, Thome, Manny...the cloud would be cast on them all, fair or not.

I am curious why you always mention those two, there are many others for sure, who are huge.

What about McGwire, does his use of andro taint his 70?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
What about McGwire, does his use of andro taint his 70?

I think it does. What would Ruth had done with andro? This begins to beg that kind of question.

[Valuist]

Last night they were talking about the HR chase back in 1998. They referred to one as "stocky" (Sosa) and one as tall (McGwire). I think McGwire would have to be considered stocky by anyone's comparison. And steroids or not, Sosa, not McGwire or Bonds, is the only one to top 60 three times. But McGwire is seen as the "golden boy". Maybe there were reasons besides his back why he retired a few years ago.

[sq764]

CJ, because McGwire doesn't play anymore, and at the time he was not using illegal steroids.

I am sure there are tons of players that use (Caminiti admitted it, so did Canseco, there's Giambi, Sheffield, Dykstra, Brady Anderson, and those are just the obvious one)

I use these 2 because they are both active Hall of Famers

[cj]

I find it odd you don't mention Thome or Ramirez or ARod.

[sq764]

why

[cj]

They are all well muscled guys who hit tons of home runs. You don't have to be ripping your shirt to be on steroids.

I am not saying any of them have ever done them, but it is possible.

[sq764]

I doubt Rodrigues is on steroids.. Most people you see on steroids are not very cut, they are just large..

I don't see Thome or Ramirez as well muscled guys.. They are just large framed guys, not really muscular at all..

[Valuist]

I agree on Thome and Ramirez. Those guys may do some weights but they are big boned and would probably be strong anyways. As for A-Rod, I used to think there's no way he'd be on roids. But I think he's gotten considerably more bulky since he left Seattle, especially in the quads. It would not shock me if he was on them as well.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Cork, steroids, no big deal. Technique, bat speed, and DLPA work better.

[sq764]

You don;t think roids contributes to bat speed??

[cj]

Originally posted by sq764
I doubt Rodrigues is on steroids.. Most people you see on steroids are not very cut, they are just large..


I am no expert on steroids, but I would tend to disagree. The sprinters and swimmers who have been caught are usually cut and not bulky.

[sq764]

But here's the telling difference..

Compare Bonds 5-7 years ago to now. Do the same for Sosa. Then do the same for A-rod..

[kenwoodallpromos]

Steroids and cork help bat speed.
Cheating has to ruled in black and white, or else you get the BS finger-pointing without proof that Bonds and the Olympians get. Then all you can do is scare them so they lay off the roidsa and go into a slump, like Bonds and all the Balco Bicep Buffoons are doing.

[sq764]

Cork doesn't help batspeed. Cork helps the reaction of the ball off of the bat.

[cj]

I do know what you say about cork is correct, but doesn't it also lighten the bat, thus increasing speed at least a small bit?

[sq764]

Yes and no.. Sosa (from the last time I heard) uses a 36 inch 36 ounce bat... The cork MAY have took an ounce out to make it 36 in, 35 ounce..

An ounce is an ounce, but they also make 36 inc, 35 ounce, 36 inch, 34 ounce and so on.. So the advantage is minimal at best..

(Think about this, on a side note.. Babe Ruth used a 44 ounce bat... For anyone that has played baseball or softball, imagine swinging that)

[kenwoodallpromos]

A 36", 36 oounce bat is a bigger diameter, increasinf chances of getting wood on the ball. A 36", 35 oz bat has smaller diameter; a 36", 36oz bat Corked down to 35oz still has the diameter of a 36oz bat but a lighter swing and max diameter. I actually think the guys who used the heaviest bats had the most strikeouts.

[KingChas]

How many more would the Babe had hit or how far with a corked bat ,steriods,(not hot dogs and booze),juiced up balls ,little league ballparks(distances for HR's), and todays sh__ty pitchers.Guess I'll throw in Mickey too,but he knew that.

PS; As for Mcguire if it was sold at GNC it was legal.I could buy it ,if it was unlegal after the fact you can't blame him.That is the basis for a lawsuit.

[sq764]

36 inch, 36 ounce is not necessarily a bigger diameter...

[schweitz]

A couple of years ago I saw some science show on cable that did a test with corked and uncorked bats. Their conclusion was that there is no advantage to using cork in a bat. Wish I could remember the name of the show.

[chickenhead]

MythBusters on Discovery Channel do things like that...

[schweitz]

Originally posted by chickenhead
MythBusters on Discovery Channel do things like that...

Entertaining show, but it wasn't MythBusters---I think it was a science show for kids.

[Valuist]

The next question is....is Lance Armstrong on roids??

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Valuist
The next question is....is Lance Armstrong on roids??

I believe he has been tested several times with negatives.

He sure as hell is an awesome athlete though. I don't notice that he is actually bulked up though? Riding that damn bike like he does would surely keep you thin.


He did dump his wife and start dating Cheryl Crow though..........

[Valuist]

Maybe its all the Jeff Mullins and Richard Dutrow horses I've seen but as long as there's drug testing, there's going to be somebody who's one step ahead of the curve. And Lance may be ahead of more curves than just the road. Nobody comes back from cancer like he has. Like LeMond said, its either the greatest comeback in sports history or the biggest fraud.

[schweitz]

I find it sad that we have reached the point that anytime an athlete excels in any sport some of us believe that they must be cheating in some way.

Greg LeMond shows no class in his statements about Armstrong and offers no proof---I guess he just needs to see his name in the papers again. :(

[Derek2U]

NO F'N way did L.A. use drugs in training. He is one totally
healthy guy. Anything he took was to train for running & whip
Cancer but he is def NOT using them to run.

[sq764]

Derek, how do you know this?

Did you think Marion Jones took them? She's quite healthy.. How about Montgomery?

[Wiley]

I would question whether Lance is using performance enhancing drugs just by virtue of the scrutiny he is under and the number of times he is tested per year. His training schedule is that much harder and better prepared than the other guys along with his genetically superior oxygen efficency. On the other hand this guy is one of the all time perfectionist/high performance endurance athletes of our time and if he thought it could help him win without getting caught.... you never know.

Here is a link to an NPR interview with a guy who volunteered himself as a guniea pig in taking many illegal performance enhancing drugs and the results. There is a whole article in Outside magazine Nov 2003 edition (check online but think you need to be a subscriber to access) which describes in greater detail.
www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1469670 (http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1469670)