Dead Heat?

[cj]

https://www.dmtc.com/racing/results/photo-finishes/2016/08/21

Check out the race 8 photo. Click on the link and you can even click again to expand it.

To my eye there looks like some space on the top horse and like the bottom horse is further ahead, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the specifics of what is considered a dead heat.

When you zoom in with image editing software it looks even more like the bottom (outside horse) won, but again, I don't really know.

Any photo experts out there?

[ReplayRandall]

https://www.dmtc.com/racing/results/photo-finishes/2016/08/21

Check out the race 8 photo. Click on the link and you can even click again to expand it.

To my eye there looks like some space on the top horse and like the bottom horse is further ahead, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the specifics of what is considered a dead heat.

When you zoom in with image editing software it looks even more like the bottom (outside horse) won, but again, I don't really know.

Any photo experts out there?

I agree 100% with the outside horse's nose appearing to be fully pushed through finish line, while inside horse does appear to have a smidgen of daylight between his nose and the finish line....Good eye, CJ..:ThmbUp:

[Appy]

Agreed. By the photo and according to the line shown the 3 got there first, but the inside jockey won! :)

[PaceAdvantage]

My guess is they couldn't come to a definitive conclusion, so they had to call it a dead heat.

As we all know, the photo doesn't come with a line...lol

A computer puts the digital image on the screen of the exact instant in time the horses hit the point on the track where the finish is located.

It's up to the judges to examine the photo to see which nose is in front. They do that by using a digital "finish line" that moves back and forth across the photo, and they attempt to place the line on one of the horse's noses and see if they other horse is also on the line or not. I'm not sure if the very edge of the digital line is the only thing that counts, or the entire thickness of the line counts...I'm sure that's buried somewhere in a rule book.

I see what you mean cj, the photo give the appearance that at least a sliver of the bottom horse's nose is "into" the line, while the top horse is barely touching the line (if at all).

I've cropped and blown up the relevant portion for everyone's viewing pleasure

[EMD4ME]

I see yellow and red lines in between the 4's nose and the fake finish line.

Not a dead heat.

[PaceAdvantage]

I see yellow and red lines in between the 4's nose and the fake finish line.

Not a dead heat.Sigh...it's not a FAKE FINISH LINE.

The photo IS the finish. I keep posting this time and time again and people like you STILL don't get it.

The photo you see IS THE FINISH. You don't NEED a line...THAT'S the finish.

The line simply HELPS to separate the horses if they are close...like a ruler on a piece of paper. Like the paper, the drawing has already been made, and you're using the ruler (or FAKE LINE as you call it) to see how everything is lined up.

Forget about the digital line (or fake line as you call it). It's distracting you unnecessarily. It has nothing to do with the line.

They could print the picture out and USE a ruler...it would be the same thing. Or they could hang a wire over the track (blowing every so slightly in a strong wind I'd bet) like they used to and capture it in the photo, like they used to.

But a digital line is FAR more accurate now that we have digital imagery.

Come on man...you're not 93-years-old...get with the times.

[EMD4ME]

Sigh...it's not a FAKE FINISH LINE.

The photo IS the finish. I keep posting this time and time again and people like you STILL don't get it.

The photo you see IS THE FINISH. You don't NEED a line...THAT'S the finish.

The line simply HELPS to separate the horses if they are close...like a ruler on a piece of paper. Like the paper, the drawing has already been made, and you're using the ruler (or FAKE LINE as you call it) to see how everything is lined up.

Forget about the digital (or fake as you call it) line. It's distracting you unnecessarily. It has nothing to do with the line. They could print the picture out and USE a ruler...it would be the same thing. Or they could hang a wire over the track (blowing every so slightly in a strong wind I'd bet) like they used to and capture it in the photo, like they used to.

But a digital line is FAR more accurate now that we have digital imagery.

Come on man...you're not 93 years old...get with the times.

Fake ruler fake finish line. Same thing :D

[PaceAdvantage]

Fake ruler fake finish line. Same thing :DI hope you're joking. If not, you're way more ignorant than I thought.

[EMD4ME]

I still see space (and yellow and red) between the 4's white nose and the visual aid line.

3's nose is at least touching the visual aid/ruler/fake finish line/digital line.

3 Won the race.

[EMD4ME]

I was joking :) but still miss the real wires

[EMD4ME]

On a seperate note: I can't wait for an announcer to scream: theeeyyy hit the digital wire tooogeeeeethhaaaaaa!!! :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

I still see space (and yellow and red) between the 4's white nose and the visual aid line.

3's nose is at least touching the visual aid/ruler/fake finish line/digital line.

3 Won the race.I think this photo proves one thing. The tracks aren't in the business of doctoring race photos. If they were, they would have made this one look way better than it does currently...

[PaceAdvantage]

On a seperate note: I can't wait for an announcer to scream: theeeyyy hit the digital wire tooogeeeeethhaaaaaa!!! :lol:Seriously, I remember the wire hanging over the track in the old days (I'm sure many smaller tracks still have them).

Did those things EVER move...wind? Birds? :lol:

[ReplayRandall]

I think this photo proves one thing. The tracks aren't in the business of doctoring race photos. If they were, they would have made this one look way better than it does currently...

Nah....it just means they're sloppy and haven't given a shit for years how it looks. For all I know, Kevin Smith posted the photo..:lol:

[EMD4ME]

I think this photo proves one thing. The tracks aren't in the business of doctoring race photos. If they were, they would have made this one look way better than it does currently...

Then why are some digital wires thicker than others?

[thaskalos]

The 3 won the race...but calling it a dead heat is an understandable mistake. You can't expect them to get these tight finishes right all the time.

[PaceAdvantage]

Then why are some digital wires thicker than others?If a winner is declared by which nose is ahead of the other, then the digital wire could be as thick as the entire right side of photo. We could call it a digital wall for all I care. Wouldn't matter.

I've revised my opinion. The winner of a horse race is the horse whose nose (could be a micrometer of nostril flare) is ahead of the other at the finish.

The photo as presented by Del Mar above shows me they blew it. It's pretty clear the bottom horse should have been declared the winner.

[EMD4ME]

If a winner is declared by which nose is ahead of the other, then the digital wire could be as thick as the entire right side of photo. We could call it a digital wall for all I care. Wouldn't matter.

I've revised my opinion. The winner of a horse race is the horse whose nose (could be a micrometer of nostril flare) is ahead of the other at the finish.

The photo as presented by Del Mar above shows me they blew it. It's pretty clear the bottom horse should have been declared the winner.


I'm proud of you :ThmbUp:

[Greyfox]

[url] but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the specifics of what is considered a dead heat.


Any photo experts out there?

I'm not a photo expert.
At the Olympic Games runners have been separated and awarded positions by thousandths of a second.
Simple Question: Why can't horse racing do that?

[chenoa]

If there was a shutter cam it would tell all, would it not.

[PaceAdvantage]

If there was a shutter cam it would tell all, would it not.Don't think you need a shutter cam for the photo in question.

My guess is those things cost lots of money. Which is the reason why odds updates aren't in real time...tracks don't like to spend money on their racing product...or do anything that might make things better for the wagering fan.

I'll take that back and say MOST TRACKS...not all...

[chenoa]

Don't think you need a shutter cam for the photo in question.

My guess is those things cost lots of money. Which is the reason why odds updates aren't in real time...tracks don't like to spend money on their racing product...or do anything that might make things better for the wagering fan.

I'll take that back and say MOST TRACKS...not all...

Can't argue that.

Ray Paulick want on a rant on twitter about Del Mar tonight and posted pics, worth looking at and kudos to Ray for calling a spade a spade.

[menifee]

Can't argue that.

Ray Paulick want on a rant on twitter about Del Mar tonight and posted pics, worth looking at and kudos to Ray for calling a spade a spade.

I thought it was pretty clear on shutter cam that the three won - I was very surprised that they called it a dead heat.

[Track Phantom]

Why is this a debate? The #3 won. There is space regarding the #4. Don't understand what's left to discuss....other than it is crooked. If 3 people can't see this, I don't know what to say.

[chaz63]

Already on CHRB agenda I heard

[Robert Fischer]

I believe that the judges used improper technique.

Because of the sloppy 'line' placement on the bottom horse, even if the top horse has a pixel or two on the line , We have to then 'extrapolate' that there is a probability that the bottom horse is still ahead (using probability/common sense, but making an extrapolation just the same).

Had the line been placed properly for the bottom horse upon his forward-most , clearly-visible pixels, then we could look at the top horse to see if there was a clearly visible pixel also touching the line.

[rastajenk]

What about the inside horse's hoof on the line? Does that matter, or is it always a nose job?

[cj]

What about the inside horse's hoof on the line? Does that matter, or is it always a nose job?

It is the nose.

[classhandicapper]

This thread reminded me of the Odd Couple episode where Felix (a photographer) was arguing that all cameras distort after losing a tight photo for their entire bankroll (other than $5 for socks).

[Tor Ekman]

This thread reminded me of the Odd Couple episode where Felix (a photographer) was arguing that all cameras distort after losing a tight photo for their entire bankroll (other than $5 for socks).
Great episode. Felix: "Why should I risk my savings on blue chips, mutual funds, and treasury bonds? I've got a midget named Harry!"

BTW, I had the :4: but not the :3: in my sequence, so I'm not complaining, but the :3: definitely won that race.

[Nitro]

Right after the race I did see them post a very clear photo on the Cal Racing Live video at the finish line and the #3’s nose was definitely in front of #4. I too was surprised at the call, but it paid off nicely if you had them both: Post #19
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133005&page=2&pp=15

[charm city whizz]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113530&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Photo+finish+pimlico

Another stinkbomb from 2 years ago.....also PA giving the digital wire explanation!!!!!!

Tons of banned posters on opening page of thread :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cj]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113530&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Photo+finish+pimlico

Another stinkbomb from 2 years ago.....also PA giving the digital wire explanation!!!!!!

Tons of banned posters on opening page of thread :lol: :lol: :lol:

SRU's first part in that thread was comedy gold. Nobody could be that dense. It had to be an act.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Well, at least there's a picture to argue about. I went to the Tillamook County horse races a couple of weeks ago - no photos, and I got clipped by a nose in the last race for about a $600-700 tri.

I would have complained, but since the FINISH line wasn't even clearly marked (I think it was a white post between the inside rail and the rodeo ring), I figured it was a losing cause.....err, no pun intended.

[SuperPickle]

So I watched this live. They showed the shutter cam shot 3-4 times. Every time it looks clearly like the :3: won. I was kind of shocked that they posted a deadheat.

I'm assuming most replays have the shutter shot. It's worth looking at.

[charm city whizz]

thread was too good........after reading the thresd over still wondering what part of the 9 inch reverse mirror is used for the photo

Bottom line del mar photo stinks

[foregoforever]

Here's an explanation of photo-finish cameras from the cycling world, for those having difficulty with the concept. The bit about the curved spokes is pretty interesting.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq-how-a-photo-finish-camera-works_415180

[SoCalCircuit]

Peter Miller seems a little aggitated, as he should.

http://www.drf.com/news/preview/question-surrounds-dead-heat

[toddbowker]

Couple of things to add, from a guy who has placed thousands of races in his lifetime:

Although quite good, the images posted on the Del Mar website are JPG's. A JPG is a compressed graphic format, and as a result includes induced artifacts that are a result of the compression. The actual image displayed on the high resolution computer monitor the placing judges used to place the race is more accurate because it's uncompressed. It would be far worse if you saw a color inkjet or color laser print of the image, and even worse still if that image was then sent out over the CCTV system and uplinked to your favorite track or OTB. Forget about seeing it on streaming video.

I once had an owner scream at me in the grandstand over the placing of a race, and then called the Stewards to object. They held a hearing, and the owner had to tuck his tail between his legs once he saw the actual image on the high resolution monitor we used to come to our decision. People can yell and scream all they want about any other form of display than the actual monitor used by the placing judges. Questioning anything that's less than a good nose is pointless without seeing what the placing judges saw.

Despite how good the systems are now, sometimes you still can't split two horses even if you have a gut feeling that one of them might actually have been in front. A couple of examples .... Sometimes noses get blocked, or a horse's nose shows up on the photo as the exact same color as the track. Placing Judges are taught to dead-heat when in doubt. If Placing Judge's can split them they will. It happens extremely rarely, but it can.

[thespaah]

Seriously, I remember the wire hanging over the track in the old days (I'm sure many smaller tracks still have them).

Did those things EVER move...wind? Birds? :lol:
The "wire"....is nothing more than a point of reference. The electronic equipment mounted at the finish which employs the mirror and photographic apparatus is all that matters..
Quite frankly, I have to chuckle when people who complain about losing bets swear they saw their horse cross under the wire before the one ruled ahead in the final placing.

[v j stauffer]

Couple of things to add, from a guy who has placed thousands of races in his lifetime:

Although quite good, the images posted on the Del Mar website are JPG's. A JPG is a compressed graphic format, and as a result includes induced artifacts that are a result of the compression. The actual image displayed on the high resolution computer monitor the placing judges used to place the race is more accurate because it's uncompressed. It would be far worse if you saw a color inkjet or color laser print of the image, and even worse still if that image was then sent out over the CCTV system and uplinked to your favorite track or OTB. Forget about seeing it on streaming video.

I once had an owner scream at me in the grandstand over the placing of a race, and then called the Stewards to object. They held a hearing, and the owner had to tuck his tail between his legs once he saw the actual image on the high resolution monitor we used to come to our decision. People can yell and scream all they want about any other form of display than the actual monitor used by the placing judges. Questioning anything that's less than a good nose is pointless without seeing what the placing judges saw.

Despite how good the systems are now, sometimes you still can't split two horses even if you have a gut feeling that one of them might actually have been in front. A couple of examples .... Sometimes noses get blocked, or a horse's nose shows up on the photo as the exact same color as the track. Placing Judges are taught to dead-heat when in doubt. If Placing Judge's can split them they will. It happens extremely rarely, but it can.

FABULOUS POST!! :jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

FABULOUS POST!! :jump:It was informative and a possible explanation of what we're seeing, but I wouldn't call it fabulous.

Why is it fabulous? Because it agrees with your point of view?

Are people saying here that placing judges NEVER make mistakes? :lol:

[EMD4ME]

It was informative and a possible explanation of what we're seeing, but I wouldn't call it fabulous.

Why is it fabulous? Because it agrees with your point of view?

Are people saying here that placing judges NEVER make mistakes? :lol:

FABULOUS POST PA!!! :ThmbUp: :lol:

[cj]

It was informative and a possible explanation of what we're seeing, but I wouldn't call it fabulous.

Why is it fabulous? Because it agrees with your point of view?

Are people saying here that placing judges NEVER make mistakes? :lol:

Vic just likes to antagonize.

[saddle sore]

https://www.dmtc.com/racing/results/photo-finishes/2016/08/21

Check out the race 8 photo. Click on the link and you can even click again to expand it.

To my eye there looks like some space on the top horse and like the bottom horse is further ahead, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the specifics of what is considered a dead heat.

When you zoom in with image editing software it looks even more like the bottom (outside horse) won, but again, I don't really know.

Any photo experts out there?....From my naked eye i thought it was the 3 and judging from your photo its the 3...You should send this picture to the Del Mar and see what they have to say about this....What really had me going was not the Win photo but the photo finish for 3rd...I had both tri's but i really needed the 2 horse {10-1} over the 6 {6/5}...Thanks for the photo

[cj]

....From my naked eye i thought it was the 3 and judging from your photo its the 3...You should send this picture to the Del Mar and see what they have to say about this....What really had me going was not the Win photo but the photo finish for 3rd...I had both tri's but i really needed the 2 horse {10-1} over the 6 {6/5}...Thanks for the photo

There was a meeting today. Results should be out soon.

[VigorsTheGrey]

There was a meeting today. Results should be out soon.

If you magnify the photo a little, the horizontal lines can be seen in front of the inside horse, which means the horse is just shy of the finish line. But that is pretty fine hair splitting....

As a aside, I've noticed on some photos the width of the line changes from ultra thin, to one which is thicker...Am I imagining things?

[EMD4ME]

If you magnify the photo a little, the horizontal lines can be seen in front of the inside horse, which means the horse is just shy of the finish line. But that is pretty fine hair splitting....

As a aside, I've noticed on some photos the width of the line changes from ultra thin, to one which is thicker...Am I imagining things?

Nope, you are not. It's a super imposed line to help us idiots realize who won a race. "They" decide how thick the "digital" line is, I mean finish line.

[cj]

If you magnify the photo a little, the horizontal lines can be seen in front of the inside horse, which means the horse is just shy of the finish line. But that is pretty fine hair splitting....

As a aside, I've noticed on some photos the width of the line changes from ultra thin, to one which is thicker...Am I imagining things?

Only the left edge of the line should matter.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Nope, you are not. It's a super imposed line to help us idiots realize who won a race. "They" decide how thick the "digital" line is, I mean finish line.

I know, sometimes, one horse's nose will be sticking out in front of the line, while the other horse's nose just meets the line!

[EMD4ME]

I know, sometimes, one horse's nose will be sticking out in front of the line, while the other horse's nose just meets the line!

Despite that, see cj's post. Only the left side matters. He is correct.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Only the left edge of the line should matter.

But if one nose just meets (tangent to) the left edge of the line
and the other nose is partially covered by the line,
then, logically, the nose that is covered by the line, wins...
....since it must have arrived at the line first,
even though the photo doesn't reveal it...no?

[kingfin66]

This whole episode is probably just a situation where the placing judge was suffering from heat stroke. It's all good, the bettors get screwed and we move on. :bang:

[cj]

But if one nose just meets (tangent to) the left edge of the line
and the other nose is partially covered by the line,
then, logically, the nose that is covered by the line, wins...
....since it must have arrived at the line first,
even though the photo doesn't reveal it...no?

I agree with that. If they do the job right, which I don't think they did here, no part of a horses nose should be covered by the line.

[EMD4ME]

This whole episode is probably just a situation where the placing judge was suffering from heat stroke. It's all good, the bettors get screwed and we move on. :bang:

That's it! I vote placing judges only work in the winter!

This heat stroke epidemic is getting out of hand :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cj]

That's it! I vote placing judges only work in the winter!

This heat stroke epidemic is getting out of hand :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nobody ever wants to admit making a mistake in racing. It is sad. People are a forgiving group if you just admit mistakes.

Instead, bettors get treated like idiots. Officials trot out lame stories to convince us they didn't screw up that any fool can see through. That is what is going to happen here...book it.

[EMD4ME]

Nobody ever wants to admit making a mistake in racing. It is sad. People are a forgiving group if you just admit mistakes.

Instead, bettors get treated like idiots. Officials trot out lame stories to convince us they didn't screw up that any fool can see through. That is what is going to happen here...book it.

I haven't aggressively tried BUT one day I will. If I ever get a chance to be in the racing industry as an executive, trust you me, on my mother, I would be just like Donald Trump (in his presidential run) and I would get myself assissinated in my attempt to clean this dirty game up AND to make sure everyone knows and sees that the HORSEPLAYER is the #1 client.

[SoCalCircuit]

I mean it does suck. I had both in the pick 4 but a definitive 3 win would've paid much more handsomely. And it's not a matter of bad racing luck, because this isn't an inquiry where there's some subjectivity...it's essentially geometry.

[EMD4ME]

I mean it does suck. I had both in the pick 4 but a definitive 3 win would've paid much more handsomely. And it's not a matter of bad racing luck, because this isn't an inquiry where there's some subjectivity...it's essentially geometry.

No excuse not to time races 1000% accurately, view photo finishes accurately, identify placers accurately and to punish poor rides with stern punishments.

Sad

[JustRalph]

This whole episode is probably just a situation where the placing judge was suffering from heat stroke. It's all good, the bettors get screwed and we move on. :bang:

Now that really did make me LOL :D

[v j stauffer]

Vic just likes to antagonize.

You don't know anything about me.

[v j stauffer]

It was informative and a possible explanation of what we're seeing, but I wouldn't call it fabulous.

Why is it fabulous? Because it agrees with your point of view?

Are people saying here that placing judges NEVER make mistakes? :lol:

Can't I just have an opinion?

Everybody else is entitled to exclusively that.

But people like you seem to feel a need to find the back channel reasons for my opinions?

Why the special treatment for me?

[PaceAdvantage]

You have an opinion, I have an opinion.

You know what they say about opinions don't you?

[spiketoo]

Couple of things to add, from a guy who has placed thousands of races in his lifetime:

Although quite good, the images posted on the Del Mar website are JPG's. A JPG is a compressed graphic format, and as a result includes induced artifacts that are a result of the compression. The actual image displayed on the high resolution computer monitor the placing judges used to place the race is more accurate because it's uncompressed. It would be far worse if you saw a color inkjet or color laser print of the image, and even worse still if that image was then sent out over the CCTV system and uplinked to your favorite track or OTB. Forget about seeing it on streaming video..

While informative this isnt really a valid rationale. DM could provide the option to click on the JPG to get a high rresolution TIFF or RAW file to minimize the compression. It would take up a bit more space on their server, but making the click an option would not impact the user experience nor server load by having the high rresolution auto load. Easy peasy. Just takes a lil bit of thought.

[cj]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/close-call-distorted-online-photo-raised-questions-del-mar-dead-heat/

Still kind of looks like the bottom horse's nose is cut off a little to me but Paulick is a stand up guy, so I'll defer to him.

[VigorsTheGrey]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/close-call-distorted-online-photo-raised-questions-del-mar-dead-heat/

Still kind of looks like the bottom horse's nose is cut off a little to me but Paulick is a stand up guy, so I'll defer to him.

From the Paulick article..."Wellman, who co-owns Well Measured with his wife Cory, Wachtel Stable and Gary Barber, said he would not file an appeal over the decision. He did say he feels the procedures could be better, suggesting that the vertical line used on the photo finish camera software could be thinner or translucent. That would remove any doubt about whether the line was covering up a portion of the horses' noses."

The translucent line idea is good...if it was used in this case it would probably show that a portion of the 3 horse nose is indeed under the line...and not just meeting it...

...also the article doesn't explain how a "distortion" could add horizontal lines in front of the inside horse's nose....a distortion would simply alter existing pixels not add or delete them...

...what looks different between the two is that in the later the line appears fatter and appears to cut off slightly more of the 3's nose than the former...and covers the gap we see in the former.

[toddbowker]

FABULOUS POST!! :jump:Fabulous? That's a bit of a stretch, but thanks, I think .... :)

All I can tell everyone here is that nothing printed or saved and displayed in printed form, on TV or the web will be as good as what the placing judges see to do the placing. As far as the Paulick image? Again, it's a JPG, and you can tell the two images are distorted from one another.

For those that are wondering how a "distortion" can "add pixels", it's all about graphic compression. The compression algorithm changes the pixels in an effort to reduce the file size. It's not "adding pixels" it changes the color of nearby pixels. Take a look at this for a sample:
http://http://d2av97idjaqjyo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/jpgartifact.png
http://d2av97idjaqjyo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/jpgartifact.png

Even with the PNG format, that "white" t that you think you see, really isn't 100% white.

You can believe me or not, but I've placed thousands of races and I know the process of what went into the decision, and why a placing can "appear" to be wrong to a layman's eye, even when it isn't. If the owner's saw the placing judge's view and aren't appealing, that tells me all I need to know about this case.

Normally when mistakes are made it's because there are noses that are blocked, the color of a horse's nose is the same as the track, poor lighting, or transposing of numbers when put on the tote board. None of those things appear to have happened here. Del Mar's photo finish system is one of the best in the business so image quality isn't an issue.

Placing horses is pretty straight forward 99%+ of the time. The other <1% is why there are more than one placing judge doing the job, and where experience comes into play. In my time placing, there were usually 1-2 races a meet that took some serious thought and discussion among the crew to sort out. The rest (even dead heats) were pretty obvious as far as what to do.

Oh, and one more thing to add. The wire that was strung across the track in the "old days" doesn't show up in the photo. It was only used as a visual aid for patrons.

[cj]

...

Thanks for the informative post.

[v j stauffer]

Thanks for the informative post.

FABULOUSLY informative I'd say. :ThmbUp:

[VeryOldMan]

FABULOUSLY informative I'd say. :ThmbUp:

LOL - you're trolling at this point, but it's all good. Todd Bowker turned out to be spot-on earlier in this thread about the resolution of the picture, how the finish line camera works, etc. based on his personal experience.

I love this board - we get to hear from industry experts and we also heard a suggestion to upload the actual high-definition finish photo the stewards see, and it sounds like they are now going to. We'll see . . .

[PaceAdvantage]

Fabulous? That's a bit of a stretch, but thanks, I think .... :)

All I can tell everyone here is that nothing printed or saved and displayed in printed form, on TV or the web will be as good as what the placing judges see to do the placing. As far as the Paulick image? Again, it's a JPG, and you can tell the two images are distorted from one another.

For those that are wondering how a "distortion" can "add pixels", it's all about graphic compression. The compression algorithm changes the pixels in an effort to reduce the file size. It's not "adding pixels" it changes the color of nearby pixels. Take a look at this for a sample:
http://http://d2av97idjaqjyo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/jpgartifact.png
http://d2av97idjaqjyo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/jpgartifact.png

Even with the PNG format, that "white" t that you think you see, really isn't 100% white.

You can believe me or not, but I've placed thousands of races and I know the process of what went into the decision, and why a placing can "appear" to be wrong to a layman's eye, even when it isn't. If the owner's saw the placing judge's view and aren't appealing, that tells me all I need to know about this case.

Normally when mistakes are made it's because there are noses that are blocked, the color of a horse's nose is the same as the track, poor lighting, or transposing of numbers when put on the tote board. None of those things appear to have happened here. Del Mar's photo finish system is one of the best in the business so image quality isn't an issue.

Placing horses is pretty straight forward 99%+ of the time. The other <1% is why there are more than one placing judge doing the job, and where experience comes into play. In my time placing, there were usually 1-2 races a meet that took some serious thought and discussion among the crew to sort out. The rest (even dead heats) were pretty obvious as far as what to do.

Oh, and one more thing to add. The wire that was strung across the track in the "old days" doesn't show up in the photo. It was only used as a visual aid for patrons.I'll agree with Vic this time...nice post...thanks for sharing!