View Full Version : Monmouth Park hits Suffolk shippers with a big bill!
onefast99
08-12-2016, 04:08 PM
Anyone shipping to Suffolk for the mini meet will be subject to a fine of $1000 per horse should they return to Monmouth Park. The reasoning behind this is Suffolk doesn't supply any horses to MP as other neighboring tracks do, such as Penn, DP, Belmont and Saratoga, Parx and a host of others. My question: Is this legal? Aren't you preventing someone from making a living with a horse they either own or train? Could you imagine if during the unique million a day meet MP had that every track said if you ship to MP you will be fined? This is one of those not thought about knee jerk reactions that make people shake their heads in disbelief! Give me one good reason why anyone should be fined for racing anywhere else!
thespaah
08-12-2016, 11:38 PM
Anyone shipping to Suffolk for the mini meet will be subject to a fine of $1000 per horse should they return to Monmouth Park. The reasoning behind this is Suffolk doesn't supply any horses to MP as other neighboring tracks do, such as Penn, DP, Belmont and Saratoga, Parx and a host of others. My question: Is this legal? Aren't you preventing someone from making a living with a horse they either own or train? Could you imagine if during the unique million a day meet MP had that every track said if you ship to MP you will be fined? This is one of those not thought about knee jerk reactions that make people shake their heads in disbelief! Give me one good reason why anyone should be fined for racing anywhere else!
Gulfstream management did something similar when Tampa had its short meet a month or so ago. GS mgmnt posted a directive to all horsemen that essentially stated that if a Gulfstream based horse was shipped to Tampa, the horse would be banned from the grounds at Gulfstream.
Donttellmeshowme
08-13-2016, 08:38 AM
Anyone shipping to Suffolk for the mini meet will be subject to a fine of $1000 per horse should they return to Monmouth Park. The reasoning behind this is Suffolk doesn't supply any horses to MP as other neighboring tracks do, such as Penn, DP, Belmont and Saratoga, Parx and a host of others. My question: Is this legal? Aren't you preventing someone from making a living with a horse they either own or train? Could you imagine if during the unique million a day meet MP had that every track said if you ship to MP you will be fined? This is one of those not thought about knee jerk reactions that make people shake their heads in disbelief! Give me one good reason why anyone should be fined for racing anywhere else!
I would tell Monmouth to go scew themselves if they tried to fine me for running at another track.
Redbullsnation
08-13-2016, 09:55 AM
Absolutely pathetic. Stupid cashgrab right there by Monmouth...
Why should Monmouth allow horses to go to Suffolk and race there, clearly hurting field size at Monmouth? They are giving owners free stalls at the track. If you go race at Suffolk, you should be billed for the stall.
Ruffian1
08-13-2016, 01:53 PM
This happens all the time. If not money, then you simply lose stalls next meet. All part of the politics of horsemen and management.
Pressure from management to race at their track is a given.
And the horses that stable there use Monmouth's electricity, water, guards and security, facilities that the house pays for and much more.
Horsemen might gripe but they all know the deal when they arrive on the grounds.
The place is fighting for it's life. Anyone stabled there should race there IMO or ship out and leave the horse elsewhere.
This happens all the time. If not money, then you simply lose stalls next meet. All part of the politics of horsemen and management.
Pressure from management to race at their track is a given.
And the horses that stable there use Monmouth's electricity, water, guards and security, facilities that the house pays for and much more.
Horsemen might gripe but they all know the deal when they arrive on the grounds.
The place is fighting for it's life. Anyone stabled there should race there IMO or ship out and leave the horse elsewhere.
Monmouth can't afford to deny stalls, so the monetary thing is there only recourse. I just don't see how people can have a problem with this, especially in these days where horses don't race very often.
mabred
08-13-2016, 06:04 PM
suffolk will pay for the fine!! they are busting at the seams with money
they pay a 1000 to come in 6th.they have 8.5 million to spend on 6
days of racing and a million a month going in to the fund with only plainridge
putting in $$ at this time.
They should double the fine!!!!
MonmouthParkJoe
08-13-2016, 06:10 PM
Monmouth can't afford to deny stalls, so the monetary thing is there only recourse. I just don't see how people can have a problem with this, especially in these days where horses don't race very often.
I agree wholeheartedly and yes I am biased. There is a ton of expenses that come with having horses on the ground and the horsemen should support them if they are there. They are fighting for their life there, and having them ship out for Suffolk is ridiculous. I wonder how many left the grounds for that.
Ruffian1
08-13-2016, 06:30 PM
I agree wholeheartedly and yes I am biased. There is a ton of expenses that come with having horses on the ground and the horsemen should support them if they are there. They are fighting for their life there, and having them ship out for Suffolk is ridiculous. I wonder how many left the grounds for that.
I hope not many.
I so hope that Monmouth survives. It is where I cut my teeth in the game during the summer as a groom back in the day. What a special place !
Horsemen all know the score the day they ship in. Especially a place that is trying to hang in there.
Best of luck to you and Monmouth Park.
Although I do miss the :
" Your best bet, US savings bonds" sign above the tote board from back in the day.:)
alhattab
08-13-2016, 09:25 PM
Anyone shipping to Suffolk for the mini meet will be subject to a fine of $1000 per horse should they return to Monmouth Park. The reasoning behind this is Suffolk doesn't supply any horses to MP as other neighboring tracks do, such as Penn, DP, Belmont and Saratoga, Parx and a host of others. My question: Is this legal? Aren't you preventing someone from making a living with a horse they either own or train? Could you imagine if during the unique million a day meet MP had that every track said if you ship to MP you will be fined? This is one of those not thought about knee jerk reactions that make people shake their heads in disbelief! Give me one good reason why anyone should be fined for racing anywhere else!
The fine seems to be a new wrinkle, but the threat is not. See first link re. Parx Fall Festival, and link from 2010 re warning on the NYRA overnights when Mth ran its "million dollar meet" (remember that!)
http://www.theracingbiz.com/2015/08/25/midlantic-tracks-watch-parx-fall-festival-nervously/
http://www.pressreader.com/usa/new-york-post/20100521/289820099130182
My own view is that seems reasonable to expect horses staying rent free to support the "landlord". It's one thing if a trainer has some stalls at Mth and wants to send his NY-bred out to NY, or even his/her Mass-bred to Suffolk. But it's a bit of a slap in the face to send his/her $5k NW2L to Suffolk when there are plenty of opptys to run at Mth.
Do you know whether or not they went through with the threat, and if so how? There were plenty of NJ trainers that ran at Suffolk last weekend- Dibona, Ryan, Navarro, Farro, Orseno. Derek Ryan said that he shipped 3, and 2 weren't coming back anyway http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/213970/nj-horses-ship-to-suffolk-despite-penalty.
I was wondering if they made exceptions especially considering everything was off the turf the previous weekend, or if the trainers shipping to Suffolk also supported the Mth programs then there was no fine.
thespaah
08-14-2016, 03:44 PM
Why should Monmouth allow horses to go to Suffolk and race there, clearly hurting field size at Monmouth? They are giving owners free stalls at the track. If you go race at Suffolk, you should be billed for the stall.
I think some kind of charge would be appropriate IF.....Trainers are known to be warehousing horses at one track only to race them at another...AND those trainers who use stalls at the track for horses they KNOW they will not race during the meeting. Workouts are not enough. They must race at least once or pay a fee to stable the horse(s) not in race training.
A one thousand dollar charge appears to be a bit steep...
If were ion charge of the track, I would make allowances for horses that have started at the stabled track that may ship out for an opportunity to get a win.
But only ONE ship out and back.
I think some kind of charge would be appropriate IF.....Trainers are known to be warehousing horses at one track only to race them at another...AND those trainers who use stalls at the track for horses they KNOW they will not race during the meeting. Workouts are not enough. They must race at least once or pay a fee to stable the horse(s) not in race training.
A one thousand dollar charge appears to be a bit steep...
If were ion charge of the track, I would make allowances for horses that have started at the stabled track that may ship out for an opportunity to get a win.
But only ONE ship out and back.
Doesn't seem steep at all to me. If you race at Suffolk, you probably won't race the horse again for 3 weeks to a month. That hurts Monmouth. 1k isn't very much these days. Allowances are made for better horses and stakes horses and maybe with permission they would be for this.
Donttellmeshowme
08-14-2016, 03:51 PM
What if i have a horse that hasnt run in 2 months and ive entered the horse 5 times and the race isnt filling what am i suppose to do? I know that i will start looking at other tracks to try and run my horse so that i can pay the monthly bill with the purse revenue if the horse makes any.
Ruffian1
08-14-2016, 03:54 PM
What if i have a horse that hasnt run in 2 months and ive entered the horse 5 times and the race isnt filling what am i suppose to do? I know that i will start looking at other tracks to try and run my horse so that i can pay the monthly bill with the purse revenue if the horse makes any.
You speak with the racing secretary and discuss the book, extras being hung, or shipping out for one race.
They are reasonable when it comes to this in most cases.
This happens all the time.
What if i have a horse that hasnt run in 2 months and ive entered the horse 5 times and the race isnt filling what am i suppose to do? I know that i will start looking at other tracks to try and run my horse so that i can pay the monthly bill with the purse revenue if the horse makes any.
Of course this kind of horse wouldn't be subjected to the fine. Posting just to post I guess.
Donttellmeshowme
08-14-2016, 03:59 PM
Of course this kind of horse wouldn't be subjected to the fine. Posting just to post I guess.
No not at all i was going to post this yesterday but got sidetracked with the 18 inches of rain weve gotten down here. Hope this helps .
Brogan
08-14-2016, 04:24 PM
Is it Palm Meadows that "charges" so much per stall per day, but credits you a fixed amount (20 or 30 days rent) every time you run at Gulfstream?
A plan like that seems pretty equitable to me.
onefast99
08-15-2016, 11:25 AM
What if i have a horse that hasnt run in 2 months and ive entered the horse 5 times and the race isnt filling what am i suppose to do? I know that i will start looking at other tracks to try and run my horse so that i can pay the monthly bill with the purse revenue if the horse makes any.BINGO
That is the main reason why horses get shipped out to other tracks the races don't fill. I support MP and have for the last 13 years. I understand they are battling to keep the racing going and I hope they are successful. If anyone watched the Hambletonian they had Jeff Gural on he said he has spent $130 million on the Meadowlands harness facility and would like nothing more than a casino there. All of the tracks need a revenue stream but I don't think fining someone $1000 to run at Suffolk is a good marketing tool, there should be a cost to leave the track that is acceptable to all involved.
onefast99
08-15-2016, 11:28 AM
Of course this kind of horse wouldn't be subjected to the fine. Posting just to post I guess.
So now you are going to make an exception? As I said there needs to be an acceptable amount agreed upon by all parties on those that sent their horses to Suffolk. It is fine to send to NY or Delaware or Penn or Parx but not to Suffolk. No one wants to tackle that part of the equation.
elhelmete
08-15-2016, 12:16 PM
The fine seems to be a new wrinkle, but the threat is not. See first link re. Parx Fall Festival, and link from 2010 re warning on the NYRA overnights when Mth ran its "million dollar meet" (remember that!)
http://www.theracingbiz.com/2015/08/25/midlantic-tracks-watch-parx-fall-festival-nervously/
http://www.pressreader.com/usa/new-york-post/20100521/289820099130182
I'm glad I'm not the only one to remember this. MTH's million dollar experiment generated much of the same backlash from other jurisdictions.
onefast99
08-15-2016, 12:21 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one to remember this. MTH's million dollar experiment generated much of the same backlash from other jurisdictions.
Different management today then during that "unique meet" though Bob Kulina was and is still in office.
elhelmete
08-15-2016, 12:28 PM
Different management today then during that "unique meet" though Bob Kulina was and is still in office.
Oh no doubt.
This is going to keep on happening as foal crops continue to erode and tracks continue to try and find ways to prop up their days.
alhattab
08-26-2016, 08:27 AM
The latest. Navarro flipping Forbes the old Jersey Bird...
http://www.app.com/story/sports/horses/2016/08/25/monmouth-park-trainers-revolt/89350420/
lamboguy
08-26-2016, 08:41 AM
Oh no doubt.
This is going to keep on happening as foal crops continue to erode and tracks continue to try and find ways to prop up their days.its going to get a lot worse the next 3 years, the sales were an utter disaster and are going to get worse in Kentucky. they didn't even get that many buyers from the far east this time!
Saratoga_Mike
08-26-2016, 09:26 AM
BINGO
That is the main reason why horses get shipped out to other tracks the races don't fill. I support MP and have for the last 13 years. I understand they are battling to keep the racing going and I hope they are successful. If anyone watched the Hambletonian they had Jeff Gural on he said he has spent $130 million on the Meadowlands harness facility and would like nothing more than a casino there. All of the tracks need a revenue stream but I don't think fining someone $1000 to run at Suffolk is a good marketing tool, there should be a cost to leave the track that is acceptable to all involved.
But it isn't BINGO, as CJ already indicated. Under DSMTM's scenario, the racing office would exempt the horse from the fine. Stakes horses would also most likely be exempt from fines.
Unless a track charges stall rent (I believe DEL does during the winter and another poster indicated Palm Meadows does the same), the track has every right to fine you for racing at another track. There's an implicit agreement when you receive FREE stalls -- the agreement is you use the track's stalls, track, water and power in exchange for racing at that track. The track doesn't provide all these freebies for nothing. If races aren't written or don't go for your horses, then you race at another track.
If you want to race all over the sun, rent stalls at a place like Fair Hills.
bello
08-26-2016, 10:42 AM
The latest. Navarro flipping Forbes the old Jersey Bird...
http://www.app.com/story/sports/horses/2016/08/25/monmouth-park-trainers-revolt/89350420/
Yep, the old unintended consequence of a stupid action. Sure the Monmouth owners can fine and the horse folks can react as they see fit. And they are.
Great society we live in.
Actions have consequences.
Monmouth has no one to blame but themselves if they are hurt by this.
Brogan
08-27-2016, 08:43 AM
The latest. Navarro flipping Forbes the old Jersey Bird...
http://www.app.com/story/sports/horses/2016/08/25/monmouth-park-trainers-revolt/89350420/
Jorge has painted himself into a corner with this. I think a majority of his rival trainers are more than willing to apply a second coat.
alhattab
08-27-2016, 09:20 PM
Let peace reign!
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/kind-benefactors-donation-solves-suffolk-shipping-problem-monmouth-park/
Who do you think the anonymous benefactor is?
Morris Bailey- 7/5
Dennis Drazin- 8/5
J Willard Thompson- 25/1
Jimmy Frangella- 25/1
Bobby DiBona- 50/1
Lou Rafetto- 50/1
Frankey Stronach 75/1
Jeannie Vuyosevich- 100/1
Gov Christie- 1,000-1
Donttellmeshowme
08-28-2016, 08:12 AM
Monmouth intent was never really to hurt the horseman? Oh really? A $1000 fine is not hurting the horseman.
What the should of done is boycott the entry box.
MonmouthParkJoe
08-28-2016, 09:51 AM
Let peace reign!
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/kind-benefactors-donation-solves-suffolk-shipping-problem-monmouth-park/
Who do you think the anonymous benefactor is?
Morris Bailey- 7/5
Dennis Drazin- 8/5
J Willard Thompson- 25/1
Jimmy Frangella- 25/1
Bobby DiBona- 50/1
Lou Rafetto- 50/1
Frankey Stronach 75/1
Jeannie Vuyosevich- 100/1
Gov Christie- 1,000-1
haha DiBona 50/1:D
thespaah
08-28-2016, 11:34 AM
Monmouth intent was never really to hurt the horseman? Oh really? A $1000 fine is not hurting the horseman.
What the should of done is boycott the entry box.
After careful consideration of the issue, i think the fine is appropriate. The reason is that Monmouth is having trouble filling races. The news report linked in this discussion indicates there are 300 empty stalls at the track.
Not only has Mth management seen short fields, they have been forced to reduce purses due to many factors. One of which is smaller handle numbers.
New Jersey racing is getting killed by surrounding states slots inflated purses.
I do not support casino subsidies, but in order to remain competitive...well.
KidCruz
08-28-2016, 12:21 PM
After careful consideration of the issue, i think the fine is appropriate. The reason is that Monmouth is having trouble filling races. The news report linked in this discussion indicates there are 300 empty stalls at the track.
Not only has Mth management seen short fields, they have been forced to reduce purses due to many factors. One of which is smaller handle numbers.
New Jersey racing is getting killed by surrounding states slots inflated purses.
I do not support casino subsidies, but in order to remain competitive...well.
In just today and yesterday's card, I count at least 15 horses shipping into Monmouth to run non-stakes while being based on other circuits currently running a meeting (I did not include the currently dark Parx horses). If this is such a moral issue, why does Monmouth have no problem entering horses that lay their head at the NYRA tracks, Delaware, Laurel, Penn etc? It should go both ways right?
It should go both ways right?
Right.
But that's the problem. There are no horses that ANYONE gets from Suffolk.
So, it doesn't go both ways with regards to them.
Saratoga_Mike
08-28-2016, 01:25 PM
Monmouth intent was never really to hurt the horseman? Oh really? A $1000 fine is not hurting the horseman.
What the should of done is boycott the entry box.
There is NO free use of stalls, a track, water and power. It doesn't exist. Why do people view tracks as charities?
I've owned horse on and off track. When stabled on track, we had less freedom. I understood that. Off track, we raced wherever we pleased.
SuperPickle
08-28-2016, 01:51 PM
There is NO free use of stalls, a track, water and power. It doesn't exist. Why do people view tracks as charities?
I've owned horse on and off track. When stabled on track, we had less freedom. I understood that. Off track, we raced wherever we pleased.
I don't think anyone sees them as charities.
Two thoughts.
Naverro's point he has the most horses on the backside. He has the leverage when the track is down horses. I'm sure he's done the race office some favors. Just like its the tracks right to fine him it's his right to take his horses to Gulfstream or Laurel.
Second. There's simply not enough horses to go around in the Mid-Atlantic. Monmouth, Delaware, Laurel, Parx, Charlestown, and Penn National can't all race against each other. They need to get in a room and figure out a circuit. But they won't. So there's an argument here that they're putting owners and trainers in the middle of their inability to work out a long term solution.
It's a complicated issue that transcends this Suffolk thing.
Saratoga_Mike
08-28-2016, 01:53 PM
There's simply not enough horses to go around in the Mid-Atlantic. Monmouth, Delaware, Laurel, Parx, Charlestown, and Penn National can't all race against each other. They need to get in a room and figure out a circuit. But they won't.
Yes, that would be the answer.
Donttellmeshowme
08-28-2016, 02:05 PM
There is NO free use of stalls, a track, water and power. It doesn't exist. Why do people view tracks as charities?
I've owned horse on and off track. When stabled on track, we had less freedom. I understood that. Off track, we raced wherever we pleased.
On track you have less freedom i get that but most tracks dont mind if you ship to another track every blue moon. They can handle that but when you start shipping all the time then theres a problem.
alhattab
08-28-2016, 06:40 PM
Forgot one Dr Chinichi is 20/1!
KidCruz
08-28-2016, 07:12 PM
Right.
But that's the problem. There are no horses that ANYONE gets from Suffolk.
So, it doesn't go both ways with regards to them.
But they did for like 100 years right? The horsemen in MA are trying anything they can to keep racing alive in the state. Right now that means running 6 measly days at Suffolk Downs. Who knows, maybe the shoe will be on a different foot some time down the line. Maybe the NJ horsemen will be relying on horses from other places to make those 6 dates go.
alhattab
08-29-2016, 07:56 AM
But they did for like 100 years right? The horsemen in MA are trying anything they can to keep racing alive in the state. Right now that means running 6 measly days at Suffolk Downs. Who knows, maybe the shoe will be on a different foot some time down the line. Maybe the NJ horsemen will be relying on horses from other places to make those 6 dates go.
A possible outcome for sure, although I think Monmouth still opens the stables. If I'm Monmouth and am forced to run a reduced schedule, I would adopt a Palm Meadows type model which I believe waives stable rent if you enter horses to run.
On a side note, popped into the Blu Grotto restaurant last night after the races for a drink. Very nice place and not a bad crowd for a Sun evening. People have said prices are high but I took a quick look at the menu and didn't think the prices were any different than any other place around here. Plus there was racing on all the TVs and two self-service machines in the bar!
lamboguy
08-29-2016, 08:05 AM
Monmouth actually paid the owners and trainers to race there this year. for every horse that Jorge Navarro and the rest of the trainers that are there enter and run a horse they get $300 for that horse. if Jorge has 100 starts that means an extra $30,000.
take away that $300 and Monmouth would have had no meet at all this year. pretty sad but true.
Finger Lakes was unable to complete filling this Thursday's card on Saturday, they were only able to put 5 races together. they are going to try to get the other 4 today. if they can only get 3 today they will need permission from the state to let it go with only 8.
The shoe is on the other foot already.
Monmouth is in a life and death battle with casino fueled purses in every bordering state plus Md. and even WVA.
Suffolk may be racing a measly 6 days, but the model is the same as every other competitor Monmouth has for racing stock - inflated purses that promote shippers resulting in smaller fields for Mth. Do you know the future? Are you sure that next year it won't be 15 days, then 25 the year after?
As a guy who has raced in NJ for some time, I don't feel any obligation to help the guys in Mass save their racing. I doubt anyone in NE cares about the welfare of horsemen in NJ. Accordingly, I'm concerned about the future of racing at Monmouth, and agree with the policy.
Anyone who is willing to accept free stabling should know that it comes with the obligation to support the meet.
Oh, and placing restrictions on shippers is nothing new. Many condition books actually spell it out. One overnight I saw (not Mth, but can't remember which track) said something to the effect: "If you ship out, don't come back."
Bluto Blutarsky
08-29-2016, 05:09 PM
Let peace reign!
Who do you think the anonymous benefactor is?
Morris Bailey- 7/5
Dennis Drazin- 8/5
J Willard Thompson- 25/1
Jimmy Frangella- 25/1
Bobby DiBona- 50/1
Lou Rafetto- 50/1
Frankey Stronach 75/1
Jeannie Vuyosevich- 100/1
Gov Christie- 1,000-1
LOL - you really do know the Monmouth Park crowd!
Seriously- My 1st guess is J Willard Thompson. He is a millionaire many times over-not from training horses- from buying and holding blue chip stocks for decades. 2nd guess- Dennis Drazin- as an "advisor" for the NJTHA, he was initially for the $1000 charge but once there was a backlash from the horsemen well then he was against it. Another miscalculation from Dennis- one of many.............
onefast99
08-30-2016, 12:05 PM
LOL - you really do know the Monmouth Park crowd!
Seriously- My 1st guess is J Willard Thompson. He is a millionaire many times over-not from training horses- from buying and holding blue chip stocks for decades. 2nd guess- Dennis Drazin- as an "advisor" for the NJTHA, he was initially for the $1000 charge but once there was a backlash from the horsemen well then he was against it. Another miscalculation from Dennis- one of many.............
I don't agree with your statement, Dennis wants what is best for all involved if he loses the live racing they lose both of the Favorites and the TVG deal, Bob Kulina was adamant about the fine, that is public knowledge. The fact is there is a strong hate for Lou Raffetto . He came to MP and asked trainers to run at Suffolk.
I also support MP but I was one who got fined for running in Suffolk in a race where I could compete(we run 40 beyers)so I felt that I was an exception to the rule, and there were several others who would or should have been exceptions to the rule. I don't want to put my horse in NY(NY bred)it is too costly and I cannot compete with what is currently running at Saratoga. I come to MP each and every week, I see my horses I come to the track I spend money(betting), I went with 8 people to the Haskell and spent over $800 at the clubhouse restaurant. I have done that for over 12 years in a row.
Here are my issues with Forbes writing the now infamous letters to the trainers, he never took into consideration the ramifications of the fine, he never once consulted with the people who he is representing, he never once said we will reach out to the owners and discuss this with them, that was his worst move. This isn't sitting well with the trainers or the owners, hopefully Dennis has a town hall meeting to clear the air!
onefast99
08-30-2016, 12:32 PM
Right.
But that's the problem. There are no horses that ANYONE gets from Suffolk.
So, it doesn't go both ways with regards to them.
And Atlantic City shipped in to MP during their mini meets and the Meadowlands meet in late September ship in to MP as well? These two were forgotten on purpose by Mr. Forbes in his letter.
Dennis wants what is best for all involved if he loses the live racing they lose both of the Favorites and the TVG deal
Just wanted to clarify on the above what you mean by the TVG deal? If Monmouth loses live racing is this in reference to just a sponsorship or the exchange betting, or would TVG's NJBets platform be revoked as well?
Also, Monmouth controls 2 of the Favorites OTB parlors? Who runs the others throughout the state?
KidCruz
08-31-2016, 02:30 AM
The shoe is on the other foot already.
Monmouth is in a life and death battle with casino fueled purses in every bordering state plus Md. and even WVA.
Suffolk may be racing a measly 6 days, but the model is the same as every other competitor Monmouth has for racing stock - inflated purses that promote shippers resulting in smaller fields for Mth. Do you know the future? Are you sure that next year it won't be 15 days, then 25 the year after?
As a guy who has raced in NJ for some time, I don't feel any obligation to help the guys in Mass save their racing. I doubt anyone in NE cares about the welfare of horsemen in NJ. Accordingly, I'm concerned about the future of racing at Monmouth, and agree with the policy.
Anyone who is willing to accept free stabling should know that it comes with the obligation to support the meet.
Oh, and placing restrictions on shippers is nothing new. Many condition books actually spell it out. One overnight I saw (not Mth, but can't remember which track) said something to the effect: "If you ship out, don't come back."
Well, the petty, shortsighted, self-serving thinking really seems to be working for them. Also, angering some of their most loyal horsemen seems to really be working for them.
You are right. They are doing the right thing. Keep doing what you are doing Monmouth. All is well.
Bluto Blutarsky
08-31-2016, 08:23 AM
I don't agree with your statement, Dennis wants what is best for all involved if he loses the live racing they lose both of the Favorites and the TVG deal, Bob Kulina was adamant about the fine, that is public knowledge. The fact is there is a strong hate for Lou Raffetto . He came to MP and asked trainers to run at Suffolk.
I also support MP but I was one who got fined for running in Suffolk in a race where I could compete(we run 40 beyers)so I felt that I was an exception to the rule, and there were several others who would or should have been exceptions to the rule. I don't want to put my horse in NY(NY bred)it is too costly and I cannot compete with what is currently running at Saratoga. I come to MP each and every week, I see my horses I come to the track I spend money(betting), I went with 8 people to the Haskell and spent over $800 at the clubhouse restaurant. I have done that for over 12 years in a row.
Here are my issues with Forbes writing the now infamous letters to the trainers, he never took into consideration the ramifications of the fine, he never once consulted with the people who he is representing, he never once said we will reach out to the owners and discuss this with them, that was his worst move. This isn't sitting well with the trainers or the owners, hopefully Dennis has a town hall meeting to clear the air!
Fast- Regarding the $1000 fine- you believe what you want to believe.
Quote from a NJTHA board member, "The fact is this was Dennis' idea-then the horsemen started complaining-and then when asked about it directly by one of the leading trainers at MP, Drazin said it wasn't his idea and he didn't support it."
Sounds like Kulina, Forbes, Drazin need to get their stories straight, don't you think?
onefast99
08-31-2016, 05:06 PM
Fast- Regarding the $1000 fine- you believe what you want to believe.
Quote from a NJTHA board member, "The fact is this was Dennis' idea-then the horsemen started complaining-and then when asked about it directly by one of the leading trainers at MP, Drazin said it wasn't his idea and he didn't support it."
Sounds like Kulina, Forbes, Drazin need to get their stories straight, don't you think?This is all Forbes!
onefast99
08-31-2016, 05:13 PM
Just wanted to clarify on the above what you mean by the TVG deal? If Monmouth loses live racing is this in reference to just a sponsorship or the exchange betting, or would TVG's NJBets platform be revoked as well?
Also, Monmouth controls 2 of the Favorites OTB parlors? Who runs the others throughout the state?The state would take it back the NJbets website came with the live racing. Gural has the Bayonne OTW and Penn Gaming has two in Southern NJ. The Woodbridge(Fords NJ)and the new Hillsborough OTW is run by the operators of Monmouth Park. Both Gural and Drazin have the ability to build others but that seems to be on the back burner since the sports wagering bill has taken a lot of time away from Drazin and the possibility of a Northern NJ casino has taken much of Jeff Gurals time up.
Bluto Blutarsky
08-31-2016, 07:46 PM
This is all Forbes!
You are wrong.
After all these years, I would think you would have learned by now-
NO DECISION IS MADE AT MONMOUTH PARK WITHOUT DENNIS DRAZIN'S APPROVAL.
You are wrong.
After all these years, I would think you would have learned by now-
NO DECISION IS MADE AT MONMOUTH PARK WITHOUT DENNIS DRAZIN'S APPROVAL.
Just curious. What difference does it make? Seems like a fair fee to me no matter who made the decision.
Bluto Blutarsky
08-31-2016, 08:07 PM
Fast and I differ on who/what was the impetus for the fee.
onefast99
09-01-2016, 11:26 AM
Fast and I differ on who/what was the impetus for the fee.
Dennis does have a lot on his plate maybe he forgot where he put the steak! See you at the track heading there on Monday.
onefast99
09-01-2016, 11:30 AM
Just curious. What difference does it make? Seems like a fair fee to me no matter who made the decision.The issue here isn't the fee it is the way it was crammed down the trainers and eventually the owners throats. Poor communication by someone who purports to represent the horseman.
The issue here isn't the fee it is the way it was crammed down the trainers and eventually the owners throats. Poor communication by someone who purports to represent the horseman.
Thanks, I really got lost a little in this thread, wasn't sure where it was headed.
bello
09-01-2016, 11:53 PM
Looks like Monmouth won this battle. Only 2 Orseno entries at Suffolk saturday.
No other Monmouth stabled horses making the trip.
onefast99
09-03-2016, 09:31 AM
Looks like Monmouth won this battle. Only 2 Orseno entries at Suffolk saturday.
No other Monmouth stabled horses making the trip.One of the horses entered is a stakes horse so there is no reason to fine someone when every horse is eligible to run anywhere they wish when it is an out of town stakes race as long as you let the racing secretary know. MP has also added some race onto the overnights that directly compete with those Suffolk is running, so no need to ship when you can run the same race at MP, something that should have been looked at and discussed before firing off letters threatening those who are a large part of providing revenue for the track.
onefast99
09-03-2016, 09:32 AM
Thanks, I really got lost a little in this thread, wasn't sure where it was headed.It seems as if everyone is happy now, Santa came early!
onefast99
09-06-2016, 09:42 AM
Looks like Monmouth won this battle. Only 2 Orseno entries at Suffolk saturday.
No other Monmouth stabled horses making the trip.
Navarro, Orseno, Ryan, Doug Nunn all had horses go for the 2 day meet two trucks left MP to Suffolk.
alhattab
06-17-2017, 08:26 AM
Navarro, Orseno, Ryan, Doug Nunn all had horses go for the 2 day meet two trucks left MP to Suffolk.
Monmouth has banned shipping to Suffolk except for stakes and Mass-bred races.
http://www.app.com/story/sports/horses/2017/06/16/monmouth-park-suffolk-downs-ban/102925386/
onefast99
06-17-2017, 09:04 AM
Monmouth has banned shipping to Suffolk except for stakes and Mass-bred races.
http://www.app.com/story/sports/horses/2017/06/16/monmouth-park-suffolk-downs-ban/102925386/
You cannot ship out anywhere unless the racing office approves it. This was on the overnight last week.
MonmouthParkJoe
06-17-2017, 09:39 AM
Monmouth has banned shipping to Suffolk except for stakes and Mass-bred races.
http://www.app.com/story/sports/horses/2017/06/16/monmouth-park-suffolk-downs-ban/102925386/
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