Terror warnings

[Suff]

Boston's Hosting the Democratic convention in a couple of weeks...

We're all terror'd up here. Terror warnings daily...

I have a couple of questions..??

Let me understand this... The guy that orchestrated the attacks on America on 9-11-01. Osama Bin Laden... He's in Pakistan.. and devising additional attacks. But we can't get "permission" from paksitan to send US troops in? Thats appeasement isn't it?

Thats question number one. If your enemy has to give you permission to enter thier country thats appeasement.?

We should be fighting a war on terror and Fundementalist Islamic nations but we can't. Because Bush has lost us all our international integrity. Only God knows what the world would do if we actually did what we should do.... Its very simple really...

We point some nuclear warheads at Paksitan and Saudi arabia...and we state... You have 30 days to turn over the leaders..and one year to seperate RADICAL islam from your government.

to me its quite clear... 15 of the 19 Hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.. The leader is Saudian Arabian.. Royalty by the way,,,

We were attacked by Saudi Arabia,... simple


Sure they're our friends... sure they are. Sure it was a plan by Bin Laden to hurt USA-Saudian Arabian Relationships.. sure it was.


boy have we stepped in shit by sending 140 thousand people to fight a war in Iaq.,..

That raises my 2nd question... how and why are the people responsible for attacking america , not only free... But still in good enough shape to plan attacks? Are we insane? What have we done?

we've spent 250 billion in Iraq,,, we've exhausted our troops and military machine... I'm not even sure we could attack our real enemys right now... I know it does'nt take a genius to know we're a bit spent... in the wallet, in the body, in the mind.

But back to Terror warnings and The DNC.

They're closing the Train stations on the North side of Town... They even closing THE MAJOR highway that leads into Boston... They closing the SUBWAYS that run anywhere near the Convention,,,, Protesters will not be able to get within miles of the place,,,,

The mayor of Boston basically told people... take the week off.. and they asked companies to allow people to work from home.

its ridicolous. Quick question? How does a janitor work from home?

and one more

did you see this week.. where the republicans kept the vote open an additional 28 minutes so that 10 republicans could change thier votes with respect to the Governments ability to investigate what books you read? Its one of the provisions of the patriot act.... without cause the USA monitors what books you read... and forces book sellers to comply...

Free country?


if they're searching me with out cause...
if they're taxing my income WITHOUT representation
if they're monitoring my travel...
if they're limiting my travel
if they're monitoring what I read

I AINT FREE.


.

[Buckeye]

But you're not leaving either, are you?

Where are the really FREE countries? Would you consider staying if Kerry wins?

[Tom]

Suff, did you read me manifesto? :D
The use of nuclear weapons to bully smaller nations into line is excellant. We should be making demands and baking them up on a daily basis as far as terrrorists go.
Close count with horseshoes and nukes. If we think Bin LAden is within a 20 mile radiius, let 'em fly.
I spent an hour in line at the Canadian border the otehr day - you know me - do I look like a terrorist? (Careful lol)
We should be doing over there what they are doing in Boston and will be doing in NY for theses stupid disgusting conventions.
I got an idea - put Kerry, Bush, and Nader in open top convertibles in LA and send them off, alone. Whoever makes it to DC gets to be president. No one makes it, we rento out the WH and pick up some cash to put towards the national debt.


And about this being the best country in the world, I don't ue lesser countries as a yardstick - we ARE the yardstick, and we got a lot of work to do here. I resent wasting all this money on mop up effort when we could have taken out the enemy a clot quiker and cheaper and then spent the money here.

Right On Suff.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Buckeye

Where are the really FREE countries?

This one's supposed to be according to my Constitution and Bill of Rights....

To think 100's of thousands of men & women have died defending a freedom you don't want.


I understand. Most people just want thier families to be safe AND be able to work and pay the Bills... and thats thier "freedom"...

I see America's constitution as a vital document for the advancement of Mankind. Individual Liberty, social Liberty, Equal Justice... equality of all men and women...

Mankinds best future requires these components.

[Secretariat]

Suff,

We are in a battle right now between "security" and "freedom" and the voices of security are winning that. We advocate "freedoms" around the world, but then promote business polcies with nations who have some of the world's worst human rights abuses.

Below is Powell trying to put a good face on the abuses of China and Saudi Arabia and even Israel.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/31/human.rights/

I agree with JR that we do what is in our best national interests, but what exactly is that..it seems to be in a state of flux and determined by the power in charge.

Your cite of keeping the vote open until they get the outcome the majority party wants in Congress is a practice I have seen more and more on C-Span, and it is despicable. As to Boston shutting down for a week, it looks like NYC will face the same with closing Penn Station. That is hard to beleive.

Sometimes it is hard to beleive that a bunch of rogue outlaws living in some caves in Afghanistan or Pakistan could cause this nation to spend hundreds of billions of dollars fo our future generations money, create a total sense of fear in this country, and lead to the loss of hundreds of American lives and thousands of Iraqi lives.

As to Pakistan, led by a military leader, I agree he understands force. I think he has to either allow our troops into investigate along that border or risk some serious repercussions. Let's get the people who caused 911, and not keep spending billions in Iraq. If we had addressed this properly we'd be done with avenging 911 already instead of bogged down in Iraq for the next 10 years.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Secretariat
If we had addressed this properly we'd be done with avenging 911 already instead of bogged down in Iraq for the next 10 years.

You truly are clueless at times. But, you're probably happy being this way, so who am I to say anything....

Carry on....

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
You truly are clueless at times. But, you're probably happy being this way, so who am I to say anything....

Carry on....

Typical Repub response...I shall.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Typical Repub response...I shall.

I notice you ignored my call to let us in on where the hell you are located? Any comment?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by JustRalph
I notice you ignored my call to let us in on where the hell you are located? Any comment?

America. I respect your privacy and don't ask where you're from. I would expect the same courtesy from others.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Secretariat
America. I respect your privacy and don't ask where you're from. I would expect the same courtesy from others.

So you are overseas........... I suspected as much.........

[cj]

Originally posted by Secretariat
America. I respect your privacy and don't ask where you're from. I would expect the same courtesy from others.

What state an anonymous poster is located in is privacy? ROFL!

[schweitz]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
What state an anonymous poster is located in is privacy? ROFL!

He hasn't said that he is from the United States.

[cj]

Originally posted by schweitz
He hasn't said that he is from the United States.

Yes he has. Its right under his name.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Yes he has. Its right under his name.

He could be from anywhere in North America or South America.:eek:

[cj]

Yeah, OK, I've heard many Mexicans, Canadians, and South Americans say they live in America. A grand total of ZERO.

He has stated he is in the US, for the record.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Yeah, OK, I've heard many Mexicans, Canadians, and South Americans say they live in America. A grand total of ZERO.

He has stated he is in the US, for the record.

I just thought he might be trying to be cute with the America thing.

[Lefty]

suff, you're getting paranoid.
Where are you being searched without cause?
Scuse me, but Bush lowered your taxes.
Who's monitering your travel?
Who's monitering what you read?
The Patriot act just gives the govt. the same powers the rico act gives them for racketeers.
Lots of Al Queda cells have been taken dn because of it. It can be cancelled by congress if they don't want to extend it.

[First_Place]

"Let me understand this... The guy that orchestrated the attacks on America on 9-11-01. Osama Bin Laden..."

Does ANYONE with any functioning brain cells still believe this disinformation (read that: LIE)? Where's the proof?? Over two and a half years and NOT ONE SHRED of credible evidence presented. All we've been offered is disinformation, innuendo and LIES.

Bin Laden, former CIA asset, now public enemy number one. C'mon now, can't you smell something fishy here?? 9/11 was an inside job. Wake up and smell the coffee you flag-waving, pseudo-patriotic ignoramuses!!

Conspiracy nut? Hardly. Just a realist and extremely capable of separating the horse shit from reality. Just like when I handicap the races.

FP

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

http://www.attackonamerica.net/home.htm

http://www.mycountryrightorwrong.net/

http://physics911.org/net/

http://www.shunned.net/

http://www.mydocsonline.com/pub/caveman21x/bushsued.html

[Buckeye]

Last_Place

You are WAY out there. How about teaching me how to bet the races?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by First_Place
"Let me understand this... The guy that orchestrated the attacks on America on 9-11-01. Osama Bin Laden..."

Does ANYONE with any functioning brain cells still believe this disinformation (read that: LIE)? Where's the proof?? Over two and a half years and NOT ONE SHRED of credible evidence presented. All we've been offered is disinformation, innuendo and LIES.

Bin Laden, former CIA asset, now public enemy number one. C'mon now, can't you smell something fishy here?? 9/11 was an inside job. Wake up and smell the coffee you flag-waving, pseudo-patriotic ignoramuses!!

Conspiracy nut? Hardly. Just a realist and extremely capable of separating the horse shit from reality. Just like when I handicap the races.

FP

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

http://www.attackonamerica.net/home.htm

http://www.mycountryrightorwrong.net/

http://physics911.org/net/

http://www.shunned.net/

http://www.mydocsonline.com/pub/caveman21x/bushsued.html


Been to all these sites, way before you posted them....

So now what?

I can apply YOUR very same words to the websites you presented above:

Where's the proof?? Over two and a half years and NOT ONE SHRED of credible evidence presented.

Those websites offer no proof, and no credible evidence. You must apply your own standards to your own conspiracy theories.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Suff

Free country?

if they're searching me with out cause...
if they're taxing my income WITHOUT representation
if they're monitoring my travel...
if they're limiting my travel
if they're monitoring what I read

I AINT FREE.
.

And if you ain't up to no good, you have nothing to worry about. Two years ago at Saratoga, a cop asked to search my cooler as we were entering the track. I opened it and showed him a few sandwiches and some beers. He apologized for the "inconvenience". I THANKED him for doing his job.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
And if you ain't up to no good, you have nothing to worry about. Two years ago at Saratoga, a cop asked to search my cooler as we were entering the track. I opened it and showed him a few sandwiches and some beers. He apologized for the "inconvenience". I THANKED him for doing his job.

Thats a Private establishment with its own rules.

I'm always amazed at how many people just toss out the US Constitution. They just completley disregard it. Its baffling to me. Maybe its because I live in Boston Proper...and I go by Paul Revere's House a couple of times a week,, or maybe its because I go by Fanuel Hall everyday, where the Constitution was drafted, maybe its because I drive Down Massachusetts avenue every day... The same road the British Marched up when they Landed in Boston Harbor and headed to Lexington Green..

Maybe its because I live in a city with 300 Thousand College Students and full of Intellectual Debate...

I really wonder... How can we fight War after War... Fight battle after battle.. To Defend our Constitution,,, A constitution that Grants me my Rights,,, and you simply dismiss all that with,,

"if you aint up to no good"....

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Suff
I really wonder... How can we fight War after War... Fight battle after battle.. To Defend our Constitution,,, A constitution that Grants me my Rights,,, and you simply dismiss all that with,,

"if you aint up to no good"....

I'm willing to give up some "rights" for the safety of my fellow citizens. I don't see it as an "infringement". Post 9/11, it's more of a necessity and since I'm not "up to no good", I don't mind a minor inconvenience. If it catches ONE terrorist, it's worth it. Face it, these SOBs will kill a liberal as fast as they'd kill a conservative. If we don't all get on the same page and stop the partisan bickering and name calling, they will have easy pickings on more Americans.

[Lefty]

Mike, welcome to offtopic. You are right, no one can find any regular, plain joe and jane american that has been abused by the Patriot Act. It's a tool against terrorists! Even lib Dems like Babara Boxer could find nothing wrong with the Patriot Act. Andf get this; congress can repeal it. So I guess most Dems like it too.
suff, even grand juries can supoena library records and this long before the Patriot Act. So stop sweating it.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
and name calling, they will have easy pickings on more Americans.



ANY MAN, THAT GIVES UP AN OUNCE OF LIBERTY FOR AN OUNCE OF PROTECTION, DESERVES NIETHER!

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
1776



in the war of 1812.. the british INVADED Washington DC. The Burned our NATIONS CAPITAL BUILDING to the ground... The Same Building that our US House of Reps meet in Today... and yet we prevailed. in Freedom.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Suff
in the war of 1812.. the british INVADED Washington DC. The Burned our NATIONS CAPITAL BUILDING to the ground... The Same Building that our US House of Reps meet in Today... and yet we prevailed. in Freedom.

And in 2001, three thousand INNOCENT OFFICE WORKERS were blasted to smithereens by a bunch of yahoos who are still right here in America. Singing Kumbaya and letting them run around plotting the next round of murders doesn't sit well with this American. My vote goes to the guy who believes that we should wipe them out before they strike again.

[Buckeye]

That's like saying, why would they have arrested him if he wasn't guilty?

The "Rights" of Good Citizenship have sadly been diminished over time, for both good and bad political reasons.

Some of these Rights have recently been reduced or suspended because of the threat facing our Country. Removing the threat is not the end of this, there are two other conditions that must be met, the order of which I believe is important.

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

[PaceAdvantage]

This is a very sticky situation. Where do we draw the line, freedom vs. safety?

I love Benjamin Franklin's quote. It's something I chanted to myself quite frequently when the Patriot Act was first passed.

But, as time has marched on, and it became apparent to me that not much has really changed in everyday life (at least where I live, which is a suburb, and not a big city), I've come to view what has transpired with the Patriot Act as something that is balanced well between freedom and safety.

We have, as a country, been "safe" since 9/11. And, unless you're going to the airport, not a whole hell of a lot has changed in the daily grind of an AVERAGE American life.

Do you agree, or disagree?

[Lefty]

I'm in Vegas and they let me roam about freely.

[Tom]

Agree.
Airports suc. If they profiled, we would also be safer and less inconvenienced.
Fortuatley, many law officials DO profile unofficially.

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's a link to a Patriot Act opinion:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14148

[hcap]

Duh

Bush: “And [Osama Bin Laden is] just – he’s a person who has now been marginalized. His network is -- his host government has been destroyed. He’s the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match…So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, Kelly [Wallace, CNN], to be honest with you. I…I truly am not that concerned about him.” .. Bush News Conference, 3/13/02


Bush Administration Says Bin Laden Is Planning An Attack: According to senior Bush administration officials, “Osama Bin Laden and his chief lieutenants, operating from hideouts suspected to be along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, are directing a Qaeda effort to launch an attack in the United States sometime this year.” ...New York Times, 7/9/04

[PaceAdvantage]

Vote for Kerry.

[Lefty]

yes, vote for Kerry. A vote for Kerry is a vote for the eversowonderful U.N. and we can get back to putting the World first and the U.S. 2nd.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Lefty
yes, vote for Kerry. A vote for Kerry is a vote for the eversowonderful U.N. and we can get back to putting the World first and the U.S. 2nd.

Lefty, please don't get me started on the UN (one of my pet peeves as a former New Yorker). They park illegally anywhere they please, drive like drunken sailors and many of them are just plain spying on us. I say throw them all out and let Donald Trump develop some badly needed middle income housing on the land they occupy.

[cryptic1]

Not all rights are absolute. Freedom of speech has limitations,
you can't yell fire in a movie theatre is the famous example
cited for that proposition. Clearly, governments must
balance security and freedom issues in a democracy.
In Canada, during the FLQ crises in the 70's the
government employed a rarely used part of our constitution,
to invoke martial law, which basically superseded any rights
that citizens held under that constitution.
Not being a U.S. constitutional law expert, I would still
hazard a guess that the legislative branch or the executive
branch under certain circumstances have the power to
circumscribe rights and freedoms. Just how far they can go
and under what circumstances are left to those experts to
argue.
As a citizen, I recognize that the government has the
power to abrogate my rights as long as it is not done
arbitrarily or capriciously. The independent Judicial arm of
government is there to give me recourse in the event I feel
maligned.
Certainly the Patriot Act is an attempt to offer security
to the nation. Whether it has tipped the scale too far in
favour of security is at this point purely subjective. We'll
see a more objective view if the Judiciary is asked to rule in
the future.

cryptic1

[Tom]

The stud-puppet Kafi from the UN is DEMANDING that the US cough up billions more for AIDS research. Never mind that we are already spending more than every other country combined. In spite of accustations that were are giving them serums tainted with the aids virus.
Why spend billions to fight a disease that is 100% preventable?
Rush said it correctly today. It is not Bush lied, People Died, it is Zip up your fly, Do not Die!
This aids epidemic is a political farce.