15 an hour closing them down

[JustRalph]

http://nypost.com/2016/07/24/the-latest-innocent-victim-of-the-fight-for-15/

[Clocker]

http://nypost.com/2016/07/24/the-latest-innocent-victim-of-the-fight-for-15/

But economics were irrelevant to Cuomo, who was eager to appease the unions behind the $15 drive. State Senate Republicans are also reaping big benefits for falling in line: Political powerhouse SEIU 1199 is now backing their continued majority.

Many service and government employee unions like SEIU have contracts that tie their cost of living increases to local minimum wages. Even if union employees make more than minimum, they still get a raise if the minimum goes up. The higher minimum wage also makes it easier to unionize minimum wage workers. They are now better able to afford union dues, and the union can point to its efforts to increase the minimum, and to promise more in the future. Might make some sense for those people who still have jobs when it all shakes out.

[davew]

Many service and government employee unions like SEIU have contracts that tie their cost of living increases to local minimum wages. Even if union employees make more than minimum, they still get a raise if the minimum goes up. The higher minimum wage also makes it easier to unionize minimum wage workers. They are now better able to afford union dues, and the union can point to its efforts to increase the minimum, and to promise more in the future. Might make some sense for those people who still have jobs when it all shakes out.

Is that why unions are pushing the $15 campaign, because union workers will get proportional raise? The airport workers are having most luck getting the new minimum wage - will the food prices be even higher or more self ordering kiosks?

[delayjf]

Many service and government employee unions like SEIU have contracts that tie their cost of living increases to local minimum wages. Even if union employees make more than minimum, they still get a raise if the minimum goes up. The higher minimum wage also makes it easier to unionize minimum wage workers. They are now better able to afford union dues, and the union can point to its efforts to increase the minimum, and to promise more in the future. Might make some sense for those people who still have jobs when it all shakes out.

The above is certainly the case for CA. In addition, the minimum salary for exempt employees is mandated to be 2 times the minimum wage. My company recently announced that most exempt employees will now be reclassified as non-exempt. I'm guessing there will be many lawsuits filed against companies like mine for wrongful employee classification, questioning why these same employees were classified as exempt in the first place.

[Clocker]

Is that why unions are pushing the $15 campaign, because union workers will get proportional raise?

Many unions have COLAs based on minimum wage increases. Increases also make minimum wage workers less competitive against union workers.

In the ultimate hypocrisy, unions spent years fighting for a $15 minimum wage in Los Angeles. When it was finally passed, the union started fighting for an exemption from the minimum wage for workers covered by a union contract.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/12/los-angeles-15-dollar-minimum-wage-unions (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/12/los-angeles-15-dollar-minimum-wage-unions)

[mostpost]

http://nypost.com/2016/07/24/the-latest-innocent-victim-of-the-fight-for-15/
http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2016/7/19/del-rio-diner-closing-after-40-years

http://www.bensonhurstbean.com/2016/07/everyone-has-a-del-rio-story-the-iconic-neighborhood-diner-says-farewell/

http://brooklynreporter.com/story/local-staple-delrio-diner-closing-for-good/

Three stories on this closing which say nothing about the $15 minimum wage-which at the time of the closing was months from being in effect and two and a half years from being completely enforced.

It seems that the real reason for this closing was changing demographics and changing eating habits in the neighborhood. Which is not to say that economics had nothing to do wth it, but I am sure that if business was good the owner would have found a way to stay open.

Another reason for the closing could be that the owner is ready to retire or at least cut back. He is sixty six and two of the partners are in their eighties. And he has another diner run by his son.

[Racetrack Playa]

•As of December 31, 2015, the Minimum Wage for individuals working in the fast food industry is $10.50 per hour in New York City, and $9.75 per hour in the rest of the state.
•As of December 31, 2015, the Minimum Cash Wage for Tipped Workers in the Hospitality Industry is $7.50 per hour if they earn enough in tips.
•As of December 31, 2015, the Minimum Wage for other Tipped Workers is $7.65 per hour if they earn at least $1.35 per hour in tips, or $6.80 per hour if they earn at least $2.20 per hour in tips.
•As of December 31, 2015, the Minimum Wage for all other workers is $9.00 per hour


facts lifted from:
https://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/minwage.shtm

[DeltaLover]

In today's world you are getting paid what you worth!


I find it difficult to believe that people still believe in raising the minimum wage as means to reduce poverty and improve the average quality of living!

This way of thinking has be proven to be one of the pipe dreams of the nineteen century Marxists and I would expect everyone to know by now.


In reality, neither the survival of businesses will be affected nor the buying power of the workers will increase by raising the minimum wages. Instead, the economy will adopt to the change and quickly reach the existing equilibrium bringing back the same exact balance as it exists today.

Job market is very good in adjusting wages and I do not see why it needs any kind of interference in its functionality.

Cheap laborers should not care about artificial increases of their income but try to improve their skill-sets, something that will allow them to negotiate better deals with their employers or even start up their own businesses.

[Clocker]

I find it difficult to believe that people still believe in raising the minimum wage as means to reduce poverty and improve the average quality of living!



Exactly. The minimum wage outlaws the creation of many entry level jobs. Those jobs provide work experience that increases the market value of an employee.

[Clocker]

It seems that the real reason for this closing was changing demographics and changing eating habits in the neighborhood. Which is not to say that economics had nothing to do wth it, but I am sure that if business was good the owner would have found a way to stay open.

Another reason for the closing could be that the owner is ready to retire or at least cut back. He is sixty six and two of the partners are in their eighties. And he has another diner run by his son.

So you know more than the owner about why he closed down? His statement that “The minimum-wage law was the straw that broke the camel’s back" was a lie? He's probably a Republican, trying to stick to the libs.

[EasyGoer89]

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2016/7/19/del-rio-diner-closing-after-40-years

http://www.bensonhurstbean.com/2016/07/everyone-has-a-del-rio-story-the-iconic-neighborhood-diner-says-farewell/

http://brooklynreporter.com/story/local-staple-delrio-diner-closing-for-good/

Three stories on this closing which say nothing about the $15 minimum wage-which at the time of the closing was months from being in effect and two and a half years from being completely enforced.

It seems that the real reason for this closing was changing demographics and changing eating habits in the neighborhood. Which is not to say that economics had nothing to do wth it, but I am sure that if business was good the owner would have found a way to stay open.

Another reason for the closing could be that the owner is ready to retire or at least cut back. He is sixty six and two of the partners are in their eighties. And he has another diner run by his son.

Nice try, but the math doesn't work.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/11/30/mcdonalds-to-install-ordering-kiosks-instead-of-paying-people-15hour-n2252849

[VigorsTheGrey]

What this does is really hurt people who are living on a fixed income and people who are not on a payroll of some kind by inflating the cost of everything across the board...it just makes it more expensive for everyone to live and forces everyone to labor...

[chadk66]

can't say they weren't warned

[Tom]

He's still in denial..... :lol:

[mostpost]

Nice try, but the math doesn't work.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/11/30/mcdonalds-to-install-ordering-kiosks-instead-of-paying-people-15hour-n2252849
Those kiosks can cost a franchisee up to $160,000 just to install. Let's assume that doing so allows him to fire five employees. At the current minimum wage,
based on forty hour weeks, he saves enough to pay for the units in just over two years.

But it is a big assumption to think the franchisee can let five people go. He still needs someone to cook. He needs someone to fill the orders. He still needs cashiers. Not everyone will use the kiosks-I won't and if I go someplace that has no other options, I will go elsewhere. He needs someone to man the drive thru. Seventy percent of McDonald's business comes through the drive thru. And that number is sure to increase if McDonald's goes ahead with this kiosk fiasco.

This also ignores the costs of operating and maintaining the kiosks.

[EasyGoer89]

Those kiosks can cost a franchisee up to $160,000 just to install. Let's assume that doing so allows him to fire five employees. At the current minimum wage,
based on forty hour weeks, he saves enough to pay for the units in just over two years.

But it is a big assumption to think the franchisee can let five people go. He still needs someone to cook. He needs someone to fill the orders. He still needs cashiers. Not everyone will use the kiosks-I won't and if I go someplace that has no other options, I will go elsewhere. He needs someone to man the drive thru. Seventy percent of McDonald's business comes through the drive thru. And that number is sure to increase if McDonald's goes ahead with this kiosk fiasco.

This also ignores the costs of operating and maintaining the kiosks.

McDonalds knows much more about their business than you do, if they're getting rid of workers and replacing them with machines, it means that's a cost savings, they're not going to get rid of workers if workers are cheaper.

[tucker6]

McDonalds knows much more about their business than you do, if they're getting rid of workers and replacing them with machines, it means that's a cost savings, they're not going to get rid of workers if workers are cheaper.
When you consider wage costs, benefits, training, losses due to various employee mistakes/actions, etc, the total cost of having a human is far greater than just the wages. Most businesses have an 18 month maximum payback for capital investments, and often times it is much less than 12 months. So, McD is likely pegging yearly total employee cost at the minimum wage level at around $100k each if Mostie's $160k machine cost is true. It is highly likely that McD is getting the machines for a fraction of that cost. My guess if half what Mostie quoted, if that.

[chadk66]

When you consider wage costs, benefits, training, losses due to various employee mistakes/actions, etc, the total cost of having a human is far greater than just the wages. Most businesses have an 18 month maximum payback for capital investments, and often times it is much less than 12 months. So, McD is likely pegging yearly total employee cost at the minimum wage level at around $100k each if Mostie's $160k machine cost is true. It is highly likely that McD is getting the machines for a fraction of that cost. My guess if half what Mostie quoted, if that.exactly. he isn't figuring in the additional things besides the flat hourly rate. there is also workers comp, social security, health benefits as you mentioned (which they didn't have to do prior to obamacare), paid sick days, maternity leave, etc. etc.

[delayjf]

Or the cost of legal actions brought on by their employees or the cost of their employees going out on strike.

[Clocker]

Those kiosks can cost a franchisee up to $160,000 just to install.


I think that number may be a tad high. The linked article says:

installing stations in a typical restaurant costs between $10,000 to $20,000 for the hardware — with software, training and maintenance an additional expense.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/06/19/mcdonald-testing-kiosk-ordering-system.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/06/19/mcdonald-testing-kiosk-ordering-system.html)

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Those kiosks can cost a franchisee up to $160,000 just to install. Let's assume that doing so allows him to fire five employees. At the current minimum wage,
based on forty hour weeks, he saves enough to pay for the units in just over two years.

But it is a big assumption to think the franchisee can let five people go. He still needs someone to cook. He needs someone to fill the orders. He still needs cashiers. Not everyone will use the kiosks-I won't and if I go someplace that has no other options, I will go elsewhere. He needs someone to man the drive thru. Seventy percent of McDonald's business comes through the drive thru. And that number is sure to increase if McDonald's goes ahead with this kiosk fiasco.

This also ignores the costs of operating and maintaining the kiosks.
These Kiosks have taken over at Newark Airport. From my experience, they work ok, but I watched people struggle to try to figure out how to order a hamburger. At the airport, you pick a restaurant, order your meal, and a receipt pops out. Someone who works at the restaurant makes the food and brings it to you, you then go to a pay station and scan your ticket and pay by credit card or inserting money into the kiosk. I can see them saving a a cashier at each of the food places. They seemed to have attendants hanging around the pay stations in case something went wrong.

One potential issue was customizing orders, like a Big Mac hold the pickles.

Anyone else have experience with the kiosk restaurants?

[Tom]

These Kiosks have taken over at Newark Airport. From my experience, they work ok, but I watched people struggle to try to figure out how to order a hamburger.

These are the people who got laid off because they weren't worth $15! :lol:

[chadk66]

These are the people who got laid off because they weren't worth $15! :lol::lol:

[JustRalph]

McDonalds knows much more about their business than you do, if they're getting rid of workers and replacing them with machines, it means that's a cost savings, they're not going to get rid of workers if workers are cheaper.

This! Once again a liberal has a theory, he thinks he knows better than the actual party running the business, thus the liberal decides he's right and refuses to see what is plain to see by the actual business owner.

Robots offer other benefits too. They don't get sick, drunk, hungover or their car doesn't get repoed, broken down, windows popped out by the ex, or arrested for drunk driving. If it's anywhere near a savings.......the robot will be installed.

Oh yeah........The robot doesn't file a lawsuit after you fire him.

Not that anything like the above ever happens with our employees ;)

[Clocker]

Robots offer other benefits too. They don't get sick, drunk, hungover or their car doesn't get repoed, broken down, windows popped out by the ex, or arrested for drunk driving. If it's anywhere near a savings.......the robot will be installed.



Those kiosks are also a goldmine for gathering marketing data.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Those kiosks are also a goldmine for gathering marketing data.
Of all the things "they" find out about me, liking pizza is is probably one that bothers me the least.

[EasyGoer89]

This! Once again a liberal has a theory, he thinks he knows better than the actual party running the business, thus the liberal decides he's right and refuses to see what is plain to see by the actual business owner.

Robots offer other benefits too. They don't get sick, drunk, hungover or their car doesn't get repoed, broken down, windows popped out by the ex, or arrested for drunk driving. If it's anywhere near a savings.......the robot will be installed.

Oh yeah........The robot doesn't file a lawsuit after you fire him.

Not that anything like the above ever happens with our employees ;)

Thanks! I love being part of the 'this' club!

Micky Ds is a multi billion dollar company, they know what they're doing. Mostposts towing the liberal line of 15 dollar wages, Micky Ds aside, one of the major issues that the 15 dollar an hour proponents haven't considered is that many of those workers are young kids w no mortgage and living at home and not paying rent so those people don't need the 15 to survive.

[Clocker]

Of all the things "they" find out about me, liking pizza is is probably one that bothers me the least.

The point is that they can identify their frequent customers and target them for special deals and promotions. It saves them a lot of money compared to doing widespread ad campaigns. It is one more advantage of kiosks over workers. They can also sell their data to other companies.