Del Mar joins the ridiculous run up club.

[cj]

There was a mile and a sixteenth race with 280 feet of run up yesterday. So, in reality, it was ~17 yards short of a mile and an eighth. This means about 5% of the race wasn't timed.

The standard run up for one mile races on dirt is 220 feet, so in reality they are one mile and 70 yard races with 10 feet of run up. But, we only get the last mile timed. It is a freaking joke any more.

[dilanesp]

There was a mile and a sixteenth race with 280 feet of run up yesterday. So, in reality, it was ~17 yards short of a mile and an eighth. This means about 5% of the race wasn't timed.

The standard run up for one mile races on dirt is 220 feet, so in reality they are one mile and 70 yard races with 10 feet of run up. But, we only get the last mile timed. It is a freaking joke any more.

While you are at it, check the run up on 5 furlong grass races. :)

[Psychotic Parakeet]

The run-up for the same distance on the same surface last year was 45 feet. Strange.

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Oh wait. I just realized you were writing about the turf. When the rail is at 18 feet last year, it was an 80 ft run-up. Going to dig further on this.

[dilanesp]

By the way, the long run up in mile dirt races (and only mile dirt races) is the only one that is defensible. That's traditional in Southern California and dates all the way back to the 1930's, and is done in order to give the horses a longer run into the first turn so that outside post positions are less compromised.

I mentioned 5 furlong turf races-- when the rails are at zero, the run up in 5 furlong turf races is basically nonexistent- they start just behind the pole. That's because Del Mar's turf course was never designed to accomodate 5 furlong turf races- they used to run 4 1/2 furlongs instead. I guess they are running 5 now because they had to configure that for the Breeders' Cup bid, but it's really stupid.

[VeryOldMan]

There was a mile and a sixteenth race with 280 feet of run up yesterday. So, in reality, it was ~17 yards short of a mile and an eighth. This means about 5% of the race wasn't timed.

The standard run up for one mile races on dirt is 220 feet, so in reality they are one mile and 70 yard races with 10 feet of run up. But, we only get the last mile timed. It is a freaking joke any more.
Nice work.

In this day and age, why are there run ups at all? We have technology to measure to the fraction of the second right out of the gate.

Yeah, somewhat rhetorical question about this industry . . .

[dilanesp]

Nice work.

In this day and age, why are there run ups at all? We have technology to measure to the fraction of the second right out of the gate.

Yeah, somewhat rhetorical question about this industry . . .

If we eliminated run-ups, we would basically be resetting all the track and world records in the sport, because they were all timed with run-ups.

Now, obviously, there is already unfairness-- nobody's ever going to set a world record going 6 furlongs at Pimlico! But changing the way races are timed would be a huge break in continuity for the sport.

[cj]

If we eliminated run-ups, we would basically be resetting all the track and world records in the sport, because they were all timed with run-ups.

Now, obviously, there is already unfairness-- nobody's ever going to set a world record going 6 furlongs at Pimlico! But changing the way races are timed would be a huge break in continuity for the sport.

Does anybody really care about track records? I guess some people must, but is doing something the wrong way for a long time a reason to keep doing it the wrong way?

[cj]

By the way, the long run up in mile dirt races (and only mile dirt races) is the only one that is defensible. That's traditional in Southern California and dates all the way back to the 1930's, and is done in order to give the horses a longer run into the first turn so that outside post positions are less compromised.




Then just call them what they are, 1m 70 yard races.

[Jeff P]

One could make the argument that almost all of those track record times are phonied up to begin with - BECAUSE of the runup.

Think about it.

Usain Bolt wasn't given a running start (or runup) when he set the world record for the men's 100 meters.

The distance from starting block to finish line was exactly 100 meters. They started timing him when the gun went off - and he ran the 100 meter distance in 9.58 seconds (back in 2009.)

How much faster would his time have been had he been given a runup before they started timing him?

If course configuration requires a runup because gate placement without one puts the gate too close to the turn... or if a runup is needed because the gate has to be moved around to keep a turf course from getting too chewed up, etc....

So be it. Use a runup.

But I say if we are going to use a runup:

TIME the freaking runup.

And publish the time of the runup the same as if it were any other internal fraction.


-jp

.

[cj]

TIME the freaking runup.

And publish the time of the runup the same as if it were any other internal fraction.


-jp

.

The sad thing is that Trakus does this for the tracks that use Trakus. There are people that have this information. They also have the exact distance of the run up, which isn't always what makes its way to the Equibase charts.

But the public does not get this data. There are people with a big, unfair advantage.

[Thomas Roulston]

It should never be more than 50 feet, except in cases of extremely short runs to the first turn. At Saratoga, for example, if they ran 7 1/2 furlongs on the Inner Turf Course and observed a 113-foot run-up, that would make the total run to the first turn 480 feet - the same total run to the first turn as in 7 1/2-furlong turf races at the Fair Grounds, where the turns measure just 814 feet, compared with the Saratoga ITC's 977 feet.

It would then be very hard for NYRA to justify refusing to run 7 1/2-furlong turf races at Saratoga.

[rastajenk]

Is there something magical or important about 7 1/2 furlong turf races?

[cj]

Is there something magical or important about 7 1/2 furlong turf races?

I personally associate them with lower level tracks.

[Thomas Roulston]

Is there something magical or important about 7 1/2 furlong turf races?


There is if your next shorter distance than 1 mile would otherwise be 5 or 5 1/2 furlongs.

[Thomas Roulston]

I personally associate them with lower level tracks.


Like Gulfstream?

[cj]

Like Gulfstream?

Let's stick to the other thread, no reason to discuss this in two places.

[Thomas Roulston]

But what about the 0-foot run-up at 1 1/8 miles on the dirt at Belmont?

I don't know why they don't simply move the finish line a sixteenth of a mile closer to the clubhouse turn. What do you need 843 feet from the finish line to the first turn for?

When Belmont hosted the 1990 Breeders' Cup, there was actually a proposal to move the finish line an eighth of a mile toward the clubhouse turn for the Classic, to keep it from starting on the turn.

[whodoyoulike]

Has anyone compiled an average range of run-ups at different tracks or an average in total by distance and surface type?

What's an average run-up at 8f on the dirt or turf?

[dilanesp]

But what about the 0-foot run-up at 1 1/8 miles on the dirt at Belmont?

I don't know why they don't simply move the finish line a sixteenth of a mile closer to the clubhouse turn. What do you need 843 feet from the finish line to the first turn for?

When Belmont hosted the 1990 Breeders' Cup, there was actually a proposal to move the finish line an eighth of a mile toward the clubhouse turn for the Classic, to keep it from starting on the turn.

Belmont has the capability of running 1 1/4 miles around 1 turn. The chute used to extend through the training track. Not sure why they eliminated that but if they felt it was important they still own the property and could restore it.

[cj]

Belmont has the capability of running 1 1/4 miles around 1 turn. The chute used to extend through the training track. Not sure why they eliminated that but if they felt it was important they still own the property and could restore it.

Think they run about 3 races a year at the distance so I doubt it is a priority. The starting point is a little funny but given the distance probably doesn't have much effect.

[dilanesp]

Think they run about 3 races a year at the distance so I doubt it is a priority. The starting point is a little funny but given the distance probably doesn't have much effect.

I bet Unbridled in post 14 in the 1990 BC Classic. :)

[SuperPickle]

Think they run about 3 races a year at the distance so I doubt it is a priority. The starting point is a little funny but given the distance probably doesn't have much effect.

Exactly. And if the BC Classic was a mile and a quarter those three races wouldn't even exist.

[SG4]

Sorry if I've missed this among the many postings on the issue of run-ups, but have tracks declared why such run-ups are used in a variety of races? I guess the starting gate position is moved here & there to protect turf courses from wear & tear, is this similar on the dirt as well? Are the run-ups also kept really just to make sure track records from one era to the next are comparable?

We should start a grass roots effort to get all racetracks (or at least start with some major ones) to agree distances will be run at exact distances from pole to finish line (with maybe 10 feet max of run-up to protect track surfaces), make a goal of say starting this in 2018 or something. Sure opening quarters will look slow from a standing start, then we'll all figure this out & adjust quickly enough, and we can move on with having a new, more simplistic normal for timing races. Any chance of bringing Steve Christ out of retirement for this one?

[thespaah]

There was a mile and a sixteenth race with 280 feet of run up yesterday. So, in reality, it was ~17 yards short of a mile and an eighth. This means about 5% of the race wasn't timed.

The standard run up for one mile races on dirt is 220 feet, so in reality they are one mile and 70 yard races with 10 feet of run up. But, we only get the last mile timed. It is a freaking joke any more.
280 feet is absurd.....

[thespaah]

There was a mile and a sixteenth race with 280 feet of run up yesterday. So, in reality, it was ~17 yards short of a mile and an eighth. This means about 5% of the race wasn't timed.

The standard run up for one mile races on dirt is 220 feet, so in reality they are one mile and 70 yard races with 10 feet of run up. But, we only get the last mile timed. It is a freaking joke any more.
On 7/21 Dmr ran three sprints. 5f, 5.5f and 6f...all three cases the gate was moved back 45 feet.
There were two races labeled "one mile on the dirt" run up for each was 220 feet.

[EMD4ME]

Sorry if I've missed this among the many postings on the issue of run-ups, but have tracks declared why such run-ups are used in a variety of races? I guess the starting gate position is moved here & there to protect turf courses from wear & tear, is this similar on the dirt as well? Are the run-ups also kept really just to make sure track records from one era to the next are comparable?

We should start a grass roots effort to get all racetracks (or at least start with some major ones) to agree distances will be run at exact distances from pole to finish line (with maybe 10 feet max of run-up to protect track surfaces), make a goal of say starting this in 2018 or something. Sure opening quarters will look slow from a standing start, then we'll all figure this out & adjust quickly enough, and we can move on with having a new, more simplistic normal for timing races. Any chance of bringing Steve Christ out of retirement for this one?


I nominate CJ and Steve Christ.

[CincyHorseplayer]

There was a mile and a sixteenth race with 280 feet of run up yesterday. So, in reality, it was ~17 yards short of a mile and an eighth. This means about 5% of the race wasn't timed.

The standard run up for one mile races on dirt is 220 feet, so in reality they are one mile and 70 yard races with 10 feet of run up. But, we only get the last mile timed. It is a freaking joke any more.

I'm guessing they think this creating an air of mystery and putting the class levels where they ought to be. Us lowly horseplayers need to be put in our place and eat this shit willingly!